All I can say is that I was sitting in some random basement shul when I thought of this post, I then went into my brain and wondered why I had never written this post when it is such an obvious good topic.
How to spot a newly minted BT:
Guys:
When they called up to the torah they have no idea what name to say “Yehuda ben Josh” or maybe they say their English name when the gabbi asks “nu what’s your name?”
They never think the mayim achronim water is enough and get up to do a full hand washing;
They say daven with an Israeli-esque accent;
They use their finger to read during shmona esray and are always the last man standing;
They say Baruch Hashem way too often;
When leading benching they always include baalas habayis as well;
Ticheles starnds in their tzitzis;
BT’s are some of the few people that will wear a jeans and t-shirt with woolen tzitzis worn yeshivish style at their sides;
Ever notice the panic that sets in at the bima when the bracha sheet is missing?
They always insist on making their own Kiddush;
They have manners;
They don’t talk during davening;
They wear a tallis like a scarf;
They wear a talis whenever they are in shul even if they weren’t assigned some sort of task that needed one to be worn;
They love wearing enormous yarmulkes, I would call it “yarmulke envy” because they went so long without wearing one, they need to make up for it. Sometimes they are more likely to resemble Imams for they wear those huge white ones and love growing their beards.
Notice that they haven’t figured out whether to pronounce words with a “Tuf or “Suf”
A woman will have her hand out for ten minutes before the BT decides what to do;
Overextended bows for everything that needs bowing, appears as if they will suffer from whiplash or a broken back because of it;
They always think that’s its inappropriate to look women in the face when talking to them, and sometimes ignore them all together;
If they happen to become frum through chabad, they use words like manifestation a lot;
They always seem to be concentrating immensely on fully extending their pinky during hagba;
They still think that Hebrew national is kosher;
They still think that orthodox Jews do it through a hole in a sheet;
They also still think that Rabbis bless the food to make it kosher;
They are scared to walk outside on shabbos because they may kill a bug or worm;
When they miss yale vayavo you can sometimes hear them say “oh shit” in the middle of davening;
They don’t yet realize that talking about sexual topics; cursing, etc… shouldn’t be talked about in front of kids and Rabbis. I have seen this many, many times.
If they realize that they are davening shmona esray they wrong way, they will jump and turn to the right way in the middle, while trying to keep their feet together;
You can hear them clop for selach lanu from across the room;
They misuse yeshiva-Hebrew terms very often;
Every time they are going to do something they say G-d Willing- but it just doesn’t sound right;
They freak out whenever something appears to meat and is served with cheese, it can become violent;
Girls:
“Oh I don’t do that anymore its untznius”- it could have been something like playing the violin, sports or painting, they usually give up their passions in the name of tznius;
They come to shul for shabbos mincha;
They love to brandish other girls for their low necklines;
Blue Fringe is their favorite band;
They burn all their untznius clothing;
They throw out all of their secular music;
They all go through some phase when they wear those button down shirts with the top button done up;
They have not realized that all their pre-BT wild sorority girl pictures still up on facebook are a problem;
They still hug their guy friends instinctively;
They stop wearing red, at least at the beginning of their road to teshuva;
They want to have at least 10 kids;
They move into a family’s basement and baby-sit the kids all the time;
They get a job teaching at their local day school;
They work for Gan Izzy in the summers;
For some reason girls are worse at learning how to say “Ch”, they still say Hanukah;
64 responses so far ↓
1 Headbanger // Mar 24, 2008 at 1:08 pm
I would say that the girl BT syndrome closely resembles the “after seminary” effect, where they come from israel and tear their room apart throwing out every short-sleeved shirt and Green day album in the shaimos pile. They get a new phone number so the boys that stalked them before they left can’t call anymore. They are very meticulous with their new understanding of the mitzvos and constantly flaunt their Judaism at every passerby and are proud to wave their new shomer negia flag at every 5th avenue parade. Then it’s off to Touro to learn speech therapy or whatever bullshit major that will occupy them until their first shidduch is reid. The problem with this is that after 3 months they realize New York isn’t Israel and the shit that you can pull in Israel falls on blind eyes here in front of all the people who clearly remember that hooker-booted girl on Avenue J with her stupid black leggings that still can’t be confused for pants. So they end up coming back to earth and either settling for a working bachur chas veshalom, or being just as bad as before. This happens to many BT’s as well.
2 heshman // Mar 24, 2008 at 1:23 pm
Not as bad for BT’s because they usually give up their previous lifestyles for good, they usually settle into the regular old frum routine- just not as extreme or violent- but your sayings about girls who go to seminary are 150% correct- although I do detect some anger.
Did you have a girl friend that this happened to, perhaps?
3 Headbanger // Mar 24, 2008 at 1:28 pm
Nah, I just watch my entire city go through with it every year. I get a real kick out of watching all the ex-whores trying to do teshuva. But I think hilchos teshuva is one of the few things the seminaries either forgot or forget purposely to teach them about because they definitely all go about it the wrong way. I could also change my clothes and put on a new set of character traits when I leave the house and just hope everyone will think I changed, but that’s bland compared to someone who actually steps up to the plate and changes. What I see isn’t change, it’s acting.
4 Shira Salamone // Mar 24, 2008 at 3:13 pm
“always the last man standing” I’m neither a man nor a BT–I’m Conservative–but I learned to davven so late in life that I’m *still* the last one standing.
5 Some Girl // Mar 24, 2008 at 5:23 pm
I don’t sit down in between Shmoneh Esrei and the repetition (aren’t you not supposed to?) and also stand for the whole repetition, so yeah… “last” one standing here.
6 Gila // Mar 24, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Oh no no no….do not get me started. 4.5 years in J’lem. I am still a bit traumatized. The happy clappy/ Kabbalah ones are the absolute worst.
Fave BT story–at a Shabbat lunch and this guy arrives and announces that he does not hold by the eruv. That is correct, all of the hard core Orthodox/ Hassidim/ whatever hold by it (this is Jlem) but nope, it does not meet his standards.
He then proceeded to chatter on in between washing and Hamotzi–while the rest of us were silent. I suppose he does not hold by that either.
7 madonna // Mar 24, 2008 at 7:42 pm
So true! I still can’t say chanukah properly. But I also got a tattoo, which you didn’t mention… And since associating with boys is so wrong, I kissed another girl (Britney) in public so noone would have any suspicions! It so worked!
8 Headbanger // Mar 24, 2008 at 7:53 pm
Usually I condone lesbian behavior but given the fact that neither of you are good looking anymore I’d have to call that a chilul hashem.
9 Conservative Sci Fi // Mar 24, 2008 at 9:36 pm
Shira,
I don’t think being the last person standing is necessarily due to slow reading, it can also be a kavana (sp?) issue. When I am just praying, I rip through really fast, but if I am in that right mood, I can concentrate and then I am much slower in prayer (and much more sincere in intent).
10 Hmm // Mar 24, 2008 at 11:34 pm
Over half of these can be said about chassidim (or frying out chassidim). Not looking girls directly in faces, actually saying words during davening, wearing tzitzis with jeans, etc.
11 I have a stupid question // Mar 24, 2008 at 11:39 pm
What’s wrong with wearing tzitzis with jeans?
12 Headbanger // Mar 24, 2008 at 11:48 pm
It’s a symbol of their former lifestyle combined with their new acceptance of the taryag. That’s the explanation plain and simple without getting into any arguments on what clothing constitutes as frum or not.
13 britney spears // Mar 25, 2008 at 1:35 am
hey! Madonna. What is exactly your problem? Why did you have to bring that up again? It was so long ago! I have enough problems without you bringing up old scandals. Just thought I would get that out.
14 Yochanan // Mar 25, 2008 at 3:16 am
“They still think that orthodox Jews do it through a hole in a sheet;
They also still think that Rabbis bless the food to make it kosher;”
Usually your analysis of BTs is right on the money. But in the above, it’s 4-time-a-year secular Jews who believe those things.
15 The Babysitter // Mar 25, 2008 at 7:24 am
Also by weddings, when they pick the kallah up on a chair, they think its called Hava Negillah or something?
16 Hesh // Mar 25, 2008 at 7:52 am
Hey Yochanon- this is talking about BT’s who just came aboard- I am not talking about BT’s who attended a summer Mayanot or Aish trip, or who hang around Chabad too much.
17 one more // Mar 25, 2008 at 8:30 am
people that aren’t shomer shabbos yet…telling you what’s a melacha and what’s not. that one takes the cake.
18 Sarah // Mar 25, 2008 at 9:46 am
You can also spot a BT right away when you’re in a kosher restaurant, and there is a very frum looking man/woman/couple eating a meal with their obviously non frum parents and/or family.
19 Hmm // Mar 25, 2008 at 9:52 am
Sarah, really? What an insight…
So pretty much, there are two categories:
1) Not yet knowing what to do.
2) Actually caring about Judaism more than your average FFB (hence similarity to many chassidim) or not treating it as merely a lifestyle.
20 heshman // Mar 25, 2008 at 10:05 am
Sarah spotting BT’s is easy, being able to tell they haven’t made the transition from sitting nervously in shul to getting invited to the kiddush club is another story.
Hmm agreed
21 s(b.) // Mar 25, 2008 at 10:18 am
My dad’s MO, and I’ll eat in KD or JII (two NYC kosher restaurants) with him when I’m wearing pants/jeans (I used to work between them, full-time). Not everyone in a suit w/their not-frum-looking relatives is a BT, and not everyone who doesn’t dress like they’re frum isn’t observant. I think everyone’s got their own mishegas, and it’s definitely not a lifestyle. (but that’s me)
(oh, wait, I should say something funny) I found it funny recently when I read someone’s description of black-hat men as dressed like penguins. Some men in black were at a concert I recently attended, and I made an effort to dance out of their line of sight (’cause I’m so tempting :p), ’cause I wanted them to stay as long as they wanted to and catch some good music.
I was with a friend who is Jewish but knows almost nothing about Judaism, and when he suggested we move closer to the stage, I told him quickly that I didn’t want to “tempt the penguins” and quickly explained that they might feel uncomfortable/ tempted by such conspicuous behavior as me dancing up front and leave, so I didn’t want to move up. I’m so glad he realized I wasn’t kidding, ’cause, really, the whole idea could sound bizarre to someone who never heard of tznius before.
22 Headbanger // Mar 25, 2008 at 11:33 am
Tempting penguins is a good way of helping them get mitzvos by them overcoming their taivos. You’re their nisayon. Isn’t that cool?
23 heimish in bp // Mar 25, 2008 at 11:36 am
s(b), you really think that frum men, at a mixed goiyishe concert, would leave because some hot chick started dancing in front of them? wouldnt they stay longer? or get more into it?
Naive!!!
24 heimish in bp // Mar 25, 2008 at 11:40 am
after thinking about it for more then a second, maybe you dont know (since you didnt grow up in our f’ed up world) how taboo it is for a black hatter to go to a goyishe concert, and if he is there, he is not really black hat
25 RECLUSIVE CHNYOCK // Mar 25, 2008 at 12:14 pm
AW SHIT I FORGOT YAALE VYAVO HAD ME LAUGHING A LITTLE TOO LOUDLY FOR A CUBICLE OFFICE!!!!!!!
BEST ONE
26 stacy // Mar 25, 2008 at 12:39 pm
black hatters at a mixed goyishe concert?
as long as it wasnt lipa singing i think we can all breath easy.
headbanger- i totally agree with your first two comments
im sorry but this entire post could be labled “how to spot a teen right off the plane”
those kids make me sick with their holier than thou- im better than you attitude
because i sat in israel for a year on daddys credit card while you joined the real world and actually got a job
27 Ahuva // Mar 25, 2008 at 1:20 pm
Hesh,
I know a lot of “fresh off the boat” BTs (being one myself) and a lot of Conservative/Reform Jews. Yochanan is right; no one believes the hole in the sheet/rabbis bless the food nonsense except the 4-time-a-year secular Jews.
28 abby // Mar 25, 2008 at 1:28 pm
ahahaha, excellent
29 Shira Salamone // Mar 25, 2008 at 1:35 pm
“I don’t think being the last person standing is necessarily due to slow reading, it can also be a kavana (sp?) issue. ”
Conservative Sci Fi, it’s both of the above. Since I’m a slow reader, I’m usually behind the baal tefillah (sometimes by as much as two pages!) when I’m davvening in shul. So I decided, a couple of years ago, to davven Shacharit through the Amidah at home on Shabbatot and Yamim Tovim, in order to leave myself time to pray with kavvanah. It takes me at least an hour and a half, going at my own speed (or lack thereof), whereas, at shul, they zip through the same prayers in an hour.
Yochanan // Mar 25, 2008 at 3:16 am
“They still think that orthodox Jews do it through a hole in a sheet;
They also still think that Rabbis bless the food to make it kosher;”
Usually your analysis of BTs is right on the money. But in the above, it’s 4-time-a-year secular Jews who believe those things.”
Good heavens, I’ve *never* believed anything so ridiculous! This is definitely for the seriously clueless. Yochanan’s right.
30 s(b.) // Mar 25, 2008 at 2:22 pm
heimish, it wasn’t a goyishe show, per se. It had a popular Jewish artist opening for a secular artist from out of town. Half the crowd left when the opener’s set ended (their loss).
That Jewish opener sat in with the headliner for the rest of the night, with other members of the opening band sitting in on other instruments for various songs. I wasn’t raised black-hat; just MO, half the time. I spent some time at BYs, as well as an an MO yeshiva when I was younger.
headbanger, you’re a trip, you’re funny, and I appreciate that. imo, tznius isn’t about dressing not to tempt because guys are alive — everybody’s got hormones and is human. (oh, no, I’m being serious for a minute) It’s about how I want to represent myself. People are responsible for their own arousal, regardless of what other people wear. I also think tznius is more than just clothes, but I can get my own blog and write about it, one day. (that’s enough of that)
I just didn’t want to represent even remotely giving anybody in black an excuse to walk out on one of my favorite guitar players even a second earlier than the last note, ’cause, really, I got my dance on just fine on the other side of the soundboard, and it was a great show.
headbanger, you’re a hoot, as usual. I knew I was put on earth for a reason. thanks for explaining to me why. [/I am a dork, sometimes sarcastic, but not in a mean way]
31 s(b.) // Mar 25, 2008 at 2:33 pm
too much praise; that’ll teach me not to edit.
32 heshman // Mar 25, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Wow such good discussion, I’ll stay out of it.
By the way I met the headbanger at a purim party- shout out yo.
33 heimish in bp // Mar 25, 2008 at 3:17 pm
can you please define “popular Jewish Artist” and “secular artist”
And i have been at some YU Chanukah concerts, where some “black hatters” attend, and many girls get up and dance, and i havent seen anyone running out. I just think you dont understand, that one (black hatter) who is dabbling in such water doesnt realy care about tznius, or arousal(or as smost ppl, dont get aroused).
34 Headbanger // Mar 25, 2008 at 3:24 pm
Yeah it made my purim more freilich. I’m curious how I came out in the picture with my metal uniform. I’m thinking of going like that to a concert one day.
s(b), I actually thought you said I was hot for a second until I saw there was two o’s. I just hope you’re not one of those type who ‘davka’ hit up the frum areas specifically untznius just for the attention. I knew some of those and today I get a royal laugh at watching them saying birchas hamazon in J2 when only a few years earlier they were flaunting the mini. I actually catch their eye before I walk out and they turn away blushing. And who said Judaism isn’t fun?
35 mazeartist // Mar 25, 2008 at 4:40 pm
They still think that Hebrew national is kosher?
They still think that orthodox Jews do it through a hole in a sheet?
They also still think that Rabbis bless the food to make it kosher?
Heshy, you’re confusing your BTs with ignorant atheists. Every BT I know avoids Hebrew National, but they don’t know exactly why.
Eventually, we learn to shun the “Rabbi Israel Meyer Steinberg” restaurants too.
36 confused // Mar 25, 2008 at 5:43 pm
Can someone explain what the heck “blessing the food” means? Does this mean making a bracha on the food? Because we’re not bentching the food when we do that…I’ve never understood this idea.
I also had to refute this myth a few days ago for some goyim.
37 Yochanan // Mar 25, 2008 at 5:54 pm
“Heshy, you’re confusing your BTs with ignorant atheists.”
And you’re equating non observance with atheism. Sure, many non observant Jews are Atheists, but it’s not the same thing.
38 Yochanan // Mar 25, 2008 at 5:56 pm
It seems that every other comment I make is not posting.
39 Aliza // Mar 25, 2008 at 6:07 pm
This is hysterical, and for the most part right on.
I laughed out loud for real at “When they miss yale vayavo you can sometimes hear them say “oh shit” in the middle of davening;”
And ““Oh I don’t do that anymore its untznius”- it could have been something like playing the violin, sports or painting, they usually give up their passions in the name of tznius;” is so true! Thank G-d I learned quickly and don’t think that way anymore 2 years later. (It’s my anniversary the time in between Purim and Pesach!!)
40 heshman // Mar 25, 2008 at 7:54 pm
Hey I can’t get everything right although many BT’s I have met that live far away from orthodox communities do think that Hebrew national is kosher- and they still have no idea if the hole in the sheet is the truth
41 s(b.) // Mar 25, 2008 at 8:40 pm
me, too, yochanan.
42 Gila // Mar 26, 2008 at 12:10 am
Ummmm…just to point out that, at least in Israel, there is a very large Dati Leumi population (modern ortho/ religious zionist) that do not dress like penguins and who do wear jeans with tzittzit etc.
Just sayin’
43 jennthejewess // Mar 26, 2008 at 4:35 pm
I have gotten the “Does kosher mean the Rabbi blesses the food?” question numerous times….
44 Yochanan // Mar 26, 2008 at 7:31 pm
jennthejewess,
I have too. But the people asking that haven’t entered BThood.
45 s(b.) // Mar 26, 2008 at 9:58 pm
for all the bt chicks who still want to go swimming:
http://www.wholesomewear.com/page-4.html
46 miriam // Mar 27, 2008 at 6:11 am
I must not be in a humorous mood today. This seems more like mocking and scoffing at BT who try to be earnest.
But you forgot blaring some Jewish music on while driving through the frum neighborhood. gulp.
47 1234 // Mar 27, 2008 at 11:15 pm
This is a mocking, stuck up article …..why look down on another Jew just because he/she was not born to a religious family? They are making an effort.
48 Yochanan // Mar 28, 2008 at 1:56 am
“for all the bt chicks who still want to go swimming:for all the bt chicks who still want to go swimming:”
I’ve seen Catholic relatives (on my father’s side, which isn’t Jewish) wear those things. But, come on, are regular (non-bikini) bathing suits THAT revealing. Maybe they can make an aquatic heter or something.
“This is a mocking, stuck up article …..why look down on another Jew just because he/she was not born to a religious family? They are making an effort.”
As a BT who’s familiar with the blogger, I can vouch that he’s not looking down on us. Rather, he’s making fun of the transition which is often akward…like puberty.
49 Yochanan // Mar 28, 2008 at 2:02 am
In regards to yarmulka envy, one of the first things I bought was a huge blue bucharian kippa. I thought I’d look cool wearing it all the time. That was, of course, before I found out that, among Ashkenazim at least, you only wear them if your 7. I now restrict it to Shabbat & Yom Tov.
50 heshman // Mar 28, 2008 at 7:27 am
Hey 1234- I can definitely tell you are an FFB based on your lack of humor. I guess being a BT is different because we have retained our sense of humor from our former lifestyles.
It just happens to be that the folks who enjoy these posts about BT’s most are the BT’s themselves- I am not mocking mind you, you should check out the comments on the highly commented “bess ways to mess with BT’s” 100 comments and you can pick out the FFB’s based on their anger. You are definitely out of touch man.
51 Ahuva // Mar 28, 2008 at 7:53 am
1234, I can’t think of any BT I know who wouldn’t at least smile at the article…
“But, come on, are regular (non-bikini) bathing suits THAT revealing. ” Ummm, I wouldn’t feel comfortable in a regular bathing suit any more. You can’t go from covering elbow, knees and collar bone to wearing a skin-tight bathing suit that might (at best) have a little mini skirt that doesn’t actually cover anything. You feel naked!
I actually e-mailed that bathing suit company and asked if they had any with 3/4 length sleeves. If they make one that covers the elbows, I am DEFINITELY going to get it. I miss swimming.. Someone has to come up with a Jewish version of the burquini!
52 Headbanger // Mar 28, 2008 at 4:12 pm
You can go swimming just not mixed swimming. However you may feel uncomfortable wearing a bathing suit from your former days around all the frum women wearing body suits and pregnant wear. But there’s nothing forbidden about bikinis around women only. But we’ll all forgive you if you happenen to accidently hit the chareidi beach in Tel-aviv.
53 On the Fringe // Mar 28, 2008 at 4:19 pm
You might want to check out this earlier attempt to define Heeb-talk.
http://jewishblogdefinitions.blogspot.com/
You might want to check out this earlier attempt to define JewSpeak commonly used in the Jewish blogosphere and elsewhere.
I post this once already. Did I mention that I hate waiting literally hours for my comments to appear (or not) on your blog? I’m not a great fan of comment moderation.
Shria saying Shabbat Shalom
54 On the Fringe // Mar 28, 2008 at 4:20 pm
“I don’t think being the last person standing is necessarily due to slow reading, it can also be a kavana (sp?) issue. ”
Conservative Sci Fi, it’s both of the above. Since I’m a slow reader, I’m usually behind the baal tefillah (sometimes by as much as two pages!) when I’m davvening in shul. So I decided, a couple of years ago, to davven Shacharit through the Amidah at home on Shabbatot and Yamim Tovim, in order to leave myself time to pray with kavvanah. It takes me at least an hour and a half, going at my own speed (or lack thereof), whereas, at shul, they zip through the same prayers in an hour.
Yochanan // Mar 25, 2008 at 3:16 am
“They still think that orthodox Jews do it through a hole in a sheet;
They also still think that Rabbis bless the food to make it kosher;”
Usually your analysis of BTs is right on the money. But in the above, it’s 4-time-a-year secular Jews who believe those things.”
Good heavens, I’ve *never* believed anything so ridiculous! This is definitely for the seriously clueless. Yochanan’s right.
Your comment is awaiting moderation.
55 stacy // Mar 28, 2008 at 5:15 pm
hesh why do you refer to yourself as a bt?
looking for a bathing suit with 3/4 sleeves should be on this list as a crazy bt thing.
i’ve never seen anyone with anything like that and i’ve lifeguarded in ultra frummie places (where i was asked not to wear my bikini) to mixed modern oryhodox places
its weird
56 1234 // Mar 29, 2008 at 12:44 am
I’m not FFB…..just a jewish kid in the South
57 Anonymous // Apr 24, 2008 at 11:57 am
I’m only two on the girls list… but the basement thing wasn’t for like 2 years and only after like 20 rabbi’s convinced me its a good idea….
58 Figuring my self out stop judging me // Jun 30, 2008 at 11:29 pm
What happened to achdut. Just take people where they are and go on with life instead of categorizing them on a basis that is superficial
59 heshman // Jul 1, 2008 at 9:27 am
This is achdut in the name of fun. We are all in agreement here and almost everyone here is of the BT variety- you should stop judging us for judging- you judgmental judger.
60 chevramaidel // Jul 3, 2008 at 11:23 pm
I remember some of the things I wore when the jeans got tossed.This size 18 dress from Goodwill, a Biblical-looking robish thing with a hood I made out of an Indian bedspread…
61 chevramaidel // Jul 3, 2008 at 11:39 pm
At a wedding in front of 770,one of the ones with lots of non-frum relatives, they gave out pamphlets explaining the ceremony.After the chuppah a couple approached me and asked about the explanation of the yichud room.Pointing to 770,they said, “Do they…um,…you know,in there?
62 ustabefrum // Jul 23, 2008 at 10:47 am
Hey, don’t knock the hole in the sheet routine - it’s a great way to recycle your old sheets.
63 Frum Satire // Jul 23, 2008 at 10:54 am
My old sheets become car sheets, for covering my leather seats for those hot days when I drive shirtless.
64 A BT gal ;-) // Oct 19, 2008 at 1:59 am
This is hysterical.
Leave a Comment