The following article appeared in today’s Journal News:
A newly hired town police officer has been given Friday nights to Saturday evenings off to accommodate her religious beliefs.
The special work schedule afforded Officer Baile J. Glauber has raised concerns among other officers, said Officer Dennis Procter, the department’s Police Benevolent Association president.
“I hope the town is not going to give special treatment to one individual for religious observances and not give other officers the same opportunities,” Procter said. “We all can’t always make temple or church or spend weekends with our families.”
Glauber, an ultra-Orthodox Jew who married under the Hasidic beliefs, graduated last month from the Rockland Police Academy. She completed the six months of physical training and educational classes to become a police officer.
She asked for the Sabbath off.
A memo dated June 27 to Glauber from Police Chief Peter Brower states, “I have been advised by the Town Attorney, Mike Klein, to modify your current work schedule in order to permit you to maintain the Sabbath Observances.”
Brower assigned Glauber to work Sunday to Thursday on the 4 p.m. to midnight shift, which began June 29. She is still a probationary officer and undergoing field training with a more experienced officer.
However, the Brower memo states Glauber can be called into work from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown in an emergency, like any other officer.
Klein said Friday that he spoke to Brower about changing Glauber’s schedule after the officer requested those days off.
He said Glauber is the town’s first ultra-Orthodox Jewish officer and her request for religious days off is the first he’s come across in 25 years with the town. The county’s other Hasidic officer, Shlomo Koenig, is a detective for the Rockland Sheriff’s Department, but did not work the Sabbath when he started.
Klein said Glauber’s schedule is temporary and contingent on his research of the constitutional issues. He said there were court cases involving employers respecting a person’s religious rights, including issues of working on the Sabbath.
He said the town was also seeking an opinion from the state Attorney General’s Office.
“We have to balance her religious rights with the job of a police officer to respond at all times,” Klein said. “We’ll be researching the issue and reporting back to the town and police department.”
The Ramapo Police Commission, which comprises the Town Board, will discuss the issue, along with the PBA, Klein said.
Supervisor Christopher St. Lawrence, who supported Glauber’s hiring, said he had no problems with her work schedule. He said he had no problem making reasonable accommodations for people based on their religious beliefs.
“I think we would make accommodation for Christians and anyone else,” he said.
The PBA’s role is to defend their members from discriminatory practices and work violations, Procter said, so the Glauber issue is rather sensitive.
Procter said the town PBA was going to meet with St. Lawrence to discuss several issues, including Glauber’s work schedule.
Glauber has a child & was nominated for hiring in February by the Town Board. She had worked for the Sheriff’s Department Traffic Safety Board before becoming a Ramapo police officer.
She graduated in June 2007 from Rockland Community College.
Glauber could not be reached for comment. She had declined to discuss her background and the police academy training after the June graduation ceremony.
75 Comments »1.
How can an orthodox let alone an ultra-orthodox woman carry a gun? which I assume a police officer must do? Isn’t it an issur d’oraysa? (the poskim have given only very specfic heterim
???? ??’’? ??’’? ?’’? ???? ?’’?.)
Comment by Bowzer — July 6, 2008 @ 12:41 pm
2.
OH, pleeeeze!!!! (BOWZER)get a life!!
Comment by rabbiofberlin — July 6, 2008 @ 12:46 pm
3.
Boruch Hashem!
This new police officer is a blessing and a kiddush Hashem. It is important for both the Ramapo people and for the Chasiidic people to know and appreciate the fact that a true minority person has been chosen to help both communities since both are in the same county.
Being a female and a Chasid are both rare and therefore contribute greatly to the credit of the Ramapo Police Department because it shows that they are open to different backgrounds and they are more understanding than previously thought.
Special congratulations go to every single one of these crime fighters for having an open mind and an open heart!
I am so proud of both the Ramapo Police and the Chasidic Community to have brought this about!
May she be a true merit to her country and her county and her religious community!
Comment by Avrohom Abba — July 6, 2008 @ 12:58 pm
4.
I would think there were tznius issues here as well. A police person sometimes has to get physical. This doesn’t sound like something a really frum woman should be doing.
Comment by basmelech — July 6, 2008 @ 12:59 pm
5.
This is not so poshut….. Check out the lohud.com article and the blog comments…..
Comment by NaarYisroel — July 6, 2008 @ 1:00 pm
6.
Nu, now they can arrest and question certain people without the “religious insensitivity”.
Comment by sammygol — July 6, 2008 @ 1:01 pm
7.
To Bowzer (#1): Where does it say that an orthodox person can’t carry a gun? Even forgetting the law enforcement category of the above individual, there are thousands of frum people, both here and in Israel, who carry pistols, rifles and machine guns in the course of their daily workday. Their doing so makes things a lot safer even for people like you who don’t! The army recruit who shot the bulldozer driver in Yerushalayim had to borrow a gun from someone else carrying one in order to “neutralize” the terrorist momzer. I know hundreds of frum people here in NYC who have pistol and rifle licenses. Please show me the issur d’oraysa you are referring to! If I am wrong, I will apologize (but not give up my gun!).
Comment by geshmack — July 6, 2008 @ 1:09 pm
8.
I don’t know where the world is heading?
chassidishe or Portorican is there a diff anymore.
A chassidishe womans place is at home or with her family worst comes to worse she’ll get a job…….. As COP?
hashem yerachem.
How will she arrest a man? ask her husband to hold him? or she’ll only arrst females?
Comment by chaimski — July 6, 2008 @ 1:30 pm
9.
A female police officer, by definition, cannot be Orthodox Jewish. She may claim to be Orthodox, like I can claim to be the Pope, but Orthodox it doesn’t make her.
Comment by Joseph — July 6, 2008 @ 1:30 pm
10.
Did she get an exemption from wearing pants too? Or does tzinius (and other halachas) not apply when inconvenient?
Comment by Joseph — July 6, 2008 @ 1:32 pm
11.
There are so many new Issurim Deoraysa coming out daily from self-proclaimed poskim, that Taryag is growing exponentially.
Rav Moshe quite simply explains that there is absolutely no issur of Beged Ish involved, if a weapon is carried for protection. If police work isn’t that, what is? He even says that if it’s worn as an adorement, it is permissible.
Possibly one can raise an objection of a frum woman in the police force altogether. Well, we all want understanding, caring law enforcement, who won’t trample on our customs, and will go along with whatever we have to do to live according to our rules. How about some frum MEN joining the force, thus having both the protection and the understanding. Since nobody seems to want to do that, how about saying thank you to the one person who did? Oy, not nice for a woman?
Bem’kom she’ein anashim, tihya leIsh. And she did.
Comment by sammygol — July 6, 2008 @ 1:55 pm
12.
odd – this presents tznius issues(women cops always wear pants), as well as shmiras negiah(apprehending suspects), and yes, I have heard that a woman cannot carry “kli milchama” – though im not sure if guns are included. I know swords and other implements like that are..
Comment by Matisyohu28 — July 6, 2008 @ 1:58 pm
13.
she is not frumm
Comment by myrivers88 — July 6, 2008 @ 2:00 pm
14.
geshmack, You ‘’know hundreds of frum people here in NYC with pistol and rifle licenses’’?! ¡ Please show me ONE. In NYC it is about impossible to get a license for any firearm, let alone a rifle. Yet YOU know HUNDREDS.
Which demonstrates the lies that are spewed in an online forum on a regular basis.
Comment by Joseph — July 6, 2008 @ 2:07 pm
15.
#7, #1 didn’t say an Orthodox person cannot carry a gun. He said a female cannot.
Comment by Joseph — July 6, 2008 @ 2:26 pm
16.
Let’s say her sheitel comes off in the scuffle!
Oh, she doesn’t wear one?
That’s doesn’t sound ultra hassidic to me.
Comment by Yatzmich — July 6, 2008 @ 2:56 pm
17.
I have a life thankyou- a Torah one.
First of all of course a frum person can carry a gun, a frum male that is, there are many halachos about a women carrying a gun and it is a very serious issue. Rav Moshe permitts a woman who is in danger to carry a gun, who said that a women has to put her self in danger which requires her to learn and practice and carry a gun. It always bothers me to see frum girls holding chaylim’s guns in pictures as it is assur. and that is the kind of life we are suppose to live according to Torha according to halacha and no one who is looking for to be honest can change that even for a GESHMAK (pun intended)
Comment by Bowzer — July 6, 2008 @ 2:59 pm
18.
to rabbi of berlin- I forget that yekim shake hand with women so I guess your women can carry guns and wear pants to.
Comment by Bowzer — July 6, 2008 @ 3:00 pm
19.
I am so grateful the poskim of Yeshiva World News have clarified that anyone who, in the course of practicing one’s profession, touches someone of the opposite gender is not frum. Thank you for exposing all of the apparently Orthodox doctors who have pulled the wool over the community’s eyes for far too long.
Comment by ChanieE — July 6, 2008 @ 3:57 pm
20.
Re the negiah aspect of arresting criminals: I can see why someone would try to avoid that situation, yet I don’t think we’re dealing with the same shaila as say, a handshake. There is no affection involved, and if physical force is necessary it’s no different than a woman helping, say, an elderly man who fell get up.
Comment by tzippi — July 6, 2008 @ 4:04 pm
21.
Sadly, used to be religious. A Satmar Bais Rochel student. Now she’s divorced and hopefully one day she’ll come back to the fold.
Comment by Bar26 — July 6, 2008 @ 4:09 pm
22.
Thanks Number Twelve You Are A Hundred Percent Right
Comment by Mir Boy — July 6, 2008 @ 4:18 pm
23.
Maybe we can be mekarev her and bring her back on the derech.
Comment by Joseph — July 6, 2008 @ 5:19 pm
24.
to #21 she is still religous because she wants shaboss and yom tov off so please watch what you say about a fellow jew being not religous.
However, the Brower memo states Glauber can be called into work from Friday sundown to Saturday sundown in an emergency, like any other officer.
this would not pose a problom for shaboss or yom tov since she would be no differant then a doctor or a hatzloah member who is called on shaboss to help a non jew because of avoh or a doctor who has to see a non jewish person on shabos
Comment by yosse — July 6, 2008 @ 5:21 pm
25.
I am a frum woman who has a rifle – my husband (also frum)has a pistol license as well. It is difficult, but not impossible. In other states it is much easier.
The shooting range where we practice is near Monsey, and is frequented by many frum people, albeit mostly men, but often women. Obviously nobody should use a gun , man or woman, if they are not trained it its use and safety.
When think of all those women and children alone in bungalow colonies… i was very happy to have mine to scare off a bear that was coming a bit too close to our playground!
Comment by chardal — July 6, 2008 @ 5:30 pm
26.
Will they accept bubbies and mother-in-laws too?
Comment by Flatbush Bubby — July 6, 2008 @ 5:38 pm
27.
For all those who would like to know. the gemarah in nazir on 59a rabbi eliezer ben yaakov says from where do we know that a woman may not go out bearing weapons of war? the torah states: there shall not be a man’s implement upon a woman.
Comment by Mir Boy — July 6, 2008 @ 5:53 pm
28.
I Forgot if you want to see shulchun aruch yorah dayah siman 182 sif 5 or rambam hilchos Avodas Kochavim Perek 12 Halacha 10
Comment by Mir Boy — July 6, 2008 @ 6:01 pm
29.
So when did the Ribono Shel Olam appoint the anonymous bloggers of YWN to judge this woman? Thanks for being meakev the geulah another few decades…
Comment by kishmich — July 6, 2008 @ 6:01 pm
30.
I wonder what made her decide to dedicate her life to being a police officer in the first place? That seems to me the really interesting point of the story. The halachic issues are between herself, her family, her Rav and her conscience.
Comment by NeveAliza — July 6, 2008 @ 6:06 pm
31.
The First Commentator Mentions Reb Moshe’s Tshuva, so I thought that it might be a good idea that everyone could read the Teshuvah for themselves:
32.
Obviously it isn’t normal for a frum women to join the NYPD forces. Something must be wrong, so why is everyone making judgments about halachic issues if you don’t know the full story.
Comment by vusshmutzich — July 6, 2008 @ 7:10 pm
33.
Finally a frum lady can have a respectable parnossa,without having to be a teacher, something she is absolutely unintersested in,and a job for which she has no particular talent. She also does not need to beg to be paid the miserable salaries that schools pay frum teachers.I assume that benefits are not an issue when working for a police force.
Instead of criticising her,I think we should all commen Ms. Glauber.
Go Baile!!!!
Go
Comment by rezmam — July 6, 2008 @ 7:36 pm
34.
I’d just like to say, Thank you, Officer Baile J. Glauber, for dedicating yourself to protect the people! It is truly inspiring and admirable of you. I’m rooting for you!
Comment by yoshi — July 6, 2008 @ 8:13 pm
35.
If more descent people had guns it would be a safer world.Habo lhorgach hashkaim vhorgo!!!!!!!!!
Comment by rabbi108300 — July 6, 2008 @ 8:48 pm
36.
B”H
For EVERY Jew, a 22!
Go girl!! We all need to know how to use a weapon.
As far as whether she is religious, I offer you the same advice I offer my children: “Pay attention to your own mitzvot. When you have those down perfectly, you can move on to worrying about every one else’s.”
Comment by Yael — July 6, 2008 @ 9:15 pm
37.
KOL HAKAVOD to her! I salute her!
Comment by milchig — July 6, 2008 @ 10:49 pm
38.
Regardless of weather it halachicly acceptable for a women to carry a gun as a police officer and the other halachic aspects, the truth is we should be happy that at lease she insists on keeping shabbos, and is adamant in that. I am not saying it’s a good thing for a frum women to be a cop, but it is a good thing that a jew clings to shabbos, may the zechus of her shabbos bring all of us to teshuva.
Comment by Bowzer — July 7, 2008 @ 12:04 am
39.
Once again sammygul leads the “religous left” in arguing against the Torah and for anti-tzinius. Using the usual dreikup to try to drei a psak shel Reb Moishe into the opposite of its intent. I still marvel at how some people use Reb Moishe’s psak that bdieved if a woman’s hair somehow got uncovered less than a tefach she isn’t oiver a lav, the pro-pritius dreikups in their zeal to legitimize pritzus dreid that psak into the opposite of its meaning to say that a woman could lchatchila cover the back tefach of hair, and presto, she is yoitza tzinius with all her uncovered hair irrelevant.
“Well, we all want understanding, caring law enforcement, who won’t trample on our customs, and will go along with whatever we have to do to live according to our rules.”
Since when does what “we want” trample shilchun aruch? And who says we want that anyway?
How about some frum MEN joining the force
How about NOT? A heilige Yid, man OR woman, has more appropriate professions than the police force.
Comment by chachom — July 7, 2008 @ 12:48 am
40.
the woman is not ultra orthodox in the picture of the ceremony she is seen wearing pants with her hair uncovered. she might keep Shabbos but she aint to religious. It’s up to the editor but i don’t think this article belongs on yeshiva world as it is about someone who left the yeshiva world. I think this article might have a bad influence on any one that sees it as it shows respect toward someone who left the orthodox fold.
Comment by Mir Boy — July 7, 2008 @ 1:39 am
41.
Why don’t you all give her the benefit of the doubt and assume that she asked a shailah before getting involved. If she is ulta-orthodox and cares enough about not working on shabbos let’s assume that she cares about all other halachos also.
Comment by Rebbitzen Mommy — July 7, 2008 @ 3:08 am
42.
I saw a picture of her. She does not appear chassidish at all, (looks like hair under the police cap) so half the issues aren’t issues anymore.
This doesn’t mean that it’s right or wrong, but we’re not talking about a chossid here.
Comment by willi — July 7, 2008 @ 3:09 am
43.
Take a deep breath and lets all step back, lets all take a positive view that baila will be able to bridge to our benefit both worlds to clear much of the mistrust between us and the outside world. In the same way that baila has seen some bad in us she has also seen much goodness between us and knows that there is much to be said for our community (notwithstanding if she is, or is not part of it)In baila’s new capacity she will be in a position to effect much chesed and understanding so while we do not agree that this is the derech of a bas yisroel let us look at the positive and hopefully with love have baila rejoin our and her community. P.S I happen to be very well acquainted with a exceptional balas theshuva lady police officer in Brooklyn who has a very special frum daughter married to a very choshova ben torah colel yungerman . she has had used her position many times to clean up issues in our community unknown to any but a privileged few.
Comment by twerski — July 7, 2008 @ 3:27 am
44.
this is mamish a prusta zach and i am not mekabel. I hold it is usser to get arrested by her and anyone who does is chayiv curais this is not a joking matter at all
Comment by ultimateshtarkness — July 7, 2008 @ 5:06 am
45.
I applaud Baile’s courage and would be proud to have her shoot or wrestle someone who was trying to hurt me or my family – KOL HaKAVOD!
As for those who are judging on the blog – if this is a Machlokes l’shem shamayim, go ahead…it is an interesting question to explore. If you’re just posting your POV because you believe a woman is only good if she is in the kitchen baking kugels all day…well, what can I say…I’m for Machlokes L’shma.
Judy
Comment by JudySL — July 7, 2008 @ 7:46 am
46.
Ok, lets get the facts straight, I know her personally , she lives with her child in Victory Gardens, she is not frum, and nowhere in the article of the Journal News did it say that she was frum. All the news said was that she was from a Chassidic background.She is a very nice girl, trying her best in her situation.
Comment by Satmer101 — July 7, 2008 @ 8:32 am
47.
These postings are truly hilarious !
On one side, all those -let’s call them traditionalists-who see the woman only as a mother,wife and shun anything that might make her different than this. Well, you are fully entitled to your opinions and you can try to enforce your beliefs on your wives ,daughters and families.
However, there are many good Jews who feel that women can have a role different than what it was these past centuries. This, too, is a fully acceptable one and you should not judge baile glauber acording to your criteria. Let her be and let her live her life. You don’t have to be ‘meshadech” yourself with her. I, for one, applaud her for this choice and I think she is actually making a kidddush hashem in showing that oyu can be shomer shabbos and still be a productive member of society.
And, as far as all the nonsense about negiah, pants and carrying weapons. Negiah is only ossur when it is done for affection and intimacy. Otherwise, it is not prohibited. How else would anyone save a woman from drowning? (Chossid shoteh)How else would hatzalah members, volunteer firemen, and doctors treat women? As far as pants go, they are not beged ish if they are made especially for women and are not worn to be like a man.Plenty of halachic sources for this (Many yemenite women wear pants under their skirts)
And, as far as weapons go, there are different opinions on this and ,because Baile is carrying this gun for ptoection, “jesh lo al mi lishmoch”
Comment by rabbiofberlin — July 7, 2008 @ 9:30 am
48.
Rezmam(and many others defending her, you were just the most recent)- you obviously never heard of “kol kovoida bas melech penima” That this lady has her own struggles and her own story that we shouldn’t be so quick to condemn her is one thing, but PLEASE, do not perverse the whole realm of acceptable tzniuos standards just to defend her! We can say that a person has their nisyonois, but how can we be blind to what is cleary an inappropriate thing at best!
Soon people will defend all of the people who aren’t shomer shabbos by saying, “shabbos is overated (chas v’shalom), another fanatism by the yeshivish right” instead of concentrating on the nebech that the irreligious person doesn’t know better about shabbos. We have to stop lowering the bar so that our failings eventually meet our extremely low standards, instead of keeping the standards high, and ackowledging our inequities
Comment by krunch — July 7, 2008 @ 9:55 am
49.
All of you who are so concerned with this woman’s choice of career, look into yourselves. I’m sure there’s something to work on. Maybe it’s not an issue of “shomer negiah” or hair covering by you but I’m sure if you search objectively you will find something that will occupy your minds and consciences long enough to forget about critiquing others.
Comment by Jewess — July 7, 2008 @ 10:05 am
50.
kol hakavod to her!
Comment by milchig — July 7, 2008 @ 10:07 am
51.
Well, everyone’s having a lot of fun with this one.
But, my question is: what happened with the Chazon Ish’s Issur of “YeHeRag, Ve’Al YaAVor” for women who place themselves under military or police discipline.
Is it only in Israel that TzeNiUs matters?
If this precedent is–Heaven forbid–accepted by the Orthodox Jewish community, we will have created a major PirTza in the TzeNiUs of the Daughters of Israel.
Comment by deepthinker — July 7, 2008 @ 11:17 am
52.
This woman may have a Chassidish background but that doesn’t mean she chose Yiddishkeit for herself. I am not in a position to judge her because I am not in her shoes and I have no idea what movivated her to become a police officer. perhaps, like someone has already said we should look at the positive that will come out of it… Still, I sincerely question why this article would be on Yeshiva news, the key word being “yeshiva”. There is no controversy here!! since we are not talking about a person who is part of the frum world. It seems to me YWN is the operative of my yetzer who wants to keep me busy with completely irrelevant things.
Comment by yiddishemishpacha — July 7, 2008 @ 11:48 am
53.
TO #14 (Joseph): Before you make insinuations, check the facts! I was a gun dealer in the NYC area (it’s not relevant exactly where) for 21 years and I can indeed name you hundreds of religious people who have guns. Since I am not in the business of “outing” people, I will not name them other than to state that many of them were/are prominent people in Boro Park, Flatbush,Williamsburg, Etc. There are Doctors, Lawyers, Jewelers, Landlords, Business people, and plain citizens. There were/are also many regular yidden who wanted to protect themselves and jumped thru the Police Departments’ hoops and did obtain licenses. By the way, you only need a license for a pistol in New York State. Rifles can be bought and used without a license in all of New York State except New York City. Even there, it is not difficult to get, just time consuming.
TO #17 (bowzer), These days, everyone is in danger to a greater or lesser degree, so having a gun handy and knowing how to use it is just good sense.
TO #25 (chardal): Kol Hakovod to you and your husband for refusing to be passive victims. Keep your powder dry!
Comment by geshmack — July 7, 2008 @ 12:20 pm
54.
to #2, #47.rah..bbi of berlin..so here you are showing up again with your apikorsishe anti torah, anti shlchun urech colors..you say “get yourself a life..” well he(#1) has a life “ki hu chayechu vorech yomacho” and he is qouting from that life whether he is right or wrong lgabay halacha we’re not going into ,but you, what life are you into ? which life are you soimech on your anti shulchen urech shita..yes ,you didnt take into consideration haw many harbe avairos she will put herself into it seems not to bother you what serious halacha this lady is oiver, what gets you excited is that that a yiddishe tochter is in the NYPD..you dont even take into consideration what what serious halachik problems this involves. did you learn “aven ezaer hilchos yichud” problems, do you know what happened already with officers who had partners of opposite – – – with them all day in thier cruise cars we’re not going into details of what issurim this leads ,not even going to be meramez as it is too x rated tomention on such a site,kol huoimer ruchov ,nikrah, but you dont care anyway..if have the chutzpah,the audacity to come on a ehrlicha shmrei torah umitzvah site for yidden yireui hashem and say there is nothing wrong with ladies going in pants what nerve..tell us does chacham oivadya yosefs s’hlitas rebitzin wear pants? meran mordechau elyohu shlitas?etc..what nerve..you say one side “lets call themraditionalis” the other sicde you call “good jews”we will not even bother to comment who you call “good jews”noow according to #46 this lady is not shomer torah umitzvos so what are you so excited about ther are plentyjewish .. who en gage and disregard …letsnot gointo these ave azer details..so rah..bbi of berlin lets repeat what we mentioned at another article on this site ..your name apltly describes you “rah”bbi of berlin where the haskalah started (and ladies wearing pants was also part of the metapshim (aka maskilim), or endarkenment (aka. enlihtenment)
Comment by jent1150 — July 7, 2008 @ 1:02 pm
55.
I would suggest that all YW users click on the link to the Journal News article on this story and read all the comments on this story. it will be real eye opener to you as to the blatant antisemitism we are surrounded with in the Monsey community. It is really really scary to see what we live amongst. The Hamon Am really hates the yidden. As much as you might have thought this was the fact in Rockland County, seeing it in print openly from so many bloggers on that site is scary. It should be an awakening to all those “frum” people that were backing the anti St. Lawrence party during the last election thinking that their agenda was strictly to “stop the building”. Their agenda was and still is “Hate the Jews and make their lives miserable so that maybe they will leave”. Hashem Yishmor!!!
Comment by monseyak — July 7, 2008 @ 1:10 pm
56.
to #45 judy ..you come here with machlokes l’shem shomayinm? you know what it means? so these posters who have proven on many other articles with their postings that they couldnt care less on being oiver dinim (good jews ,according to rah bbi of berlin aka metapshim{maskilim in their language})even harbe dinim in shulchen urech, they are “poiretz geder’ you call the l’shem shomaim?..on this rah bbi of berlin one can safely say he is mechallel shabbos according to his postings throughout..so of courrse he is excited to have another yid be mechallel the torah.
Comment by jent1150 — July 7, 2008 @ 1:19 pm
57.
geshmack/53, You mentioned NYC, so we were talking about NYC not NYS. In NYC unless you are famous or a celebrity, it is practically impossible to get the NYPD to issue you a pistol license, let alone a rifle license.
Comment by Joseph — July 7, 2008 @ 1:35 pm
58.
…or have a proven and demonstrable need for a license i.e. transfer large sums of cash on a regular basis.
Comment by Joseph — July 7, 2008 @ 1:37 pm
59.
krunch (#48) hit the nail on the head.
is being a police officer a proper job for a bas yisroel? absolutely not.
would I want my daughter to become one? again, absolutely not.
Should we judge Baila Glauber for becoming one? Again of course not.
Whether she wears pants and keeps her hair uncovered or not, and in general her level of frumkeit are between her and Hashem. How do any of you who are bashing her know that YOU would be able to withstand whatever nisyonos caused her to stray (at least partially) from the chasidishe path she was brought up in?
And would any of you want your own ruchniyusdik shortcomings to become the public conversation piece of a bunch of bloggers? I doubt it.
Lets show some respect for the fact that at least her shmiras shabbos seems to be strong. And lets daven that she along with all of us should only grow in our shmiras hamitzvos.
Comment by charlie brown — July 7, 2008 @ 2:11 pm
60.
Well, if my postings can engender such hostility from other jews (jent 1150), is it any wonder why moshiach is not here yet? he must be wringing his hands in frustration at the intolerance and non-ahavas yisroel,( I am not going to call it by its real name because I don’t want to be mekatreg on good jews-and yes, jent 1150, I also consider a good jew in spite of his rantings),rather than being mekarev everyone. But ,as they say in yiddish, zu de zach.
It is clear – boror kachama – that women are not “oiver’ on lo silbash if they were pants made for women. Whether they should wear it is totally irrelevant. there is halacha and there is middas chassidus or a chumro, and to speak about Rav Josfe’s wife or whatever is a real red herring on this matter.As I wrote, in Yemen, all women wore pants under their dresses. Here, in the US, most frum jewish women don,t wear pants. That’s fine too, but don’t confuse this with halacha.
I also see that you are silent on the other two items I discussed. Why? is it because I am right?
Whether this officer may, and i repeat may, be subject to other halachic problems is irrelevant. She will have to deal with them to the best of her ability. The point that I and many other on this site have made is that we should always, always be “dan lekaf zechus” and appreciate her effrot in making a living and in making sure that she can keep shabbos.
You and some others on this site just don’t want anything to do with anyone who is not like them.That,clearly, is not what I would call ahavas yisroel.
Today we live in the world of “aschalte degeulah” and all jews ,from wherever they come and whoever they are, should be welcomed back and warmly embraced. Not to do so will just postpone the real geulah.
As you see, dear jent 1150, I even embrace you, in spite of the very nasty lies you write about me in 56. You see, I want melech hamoshiach to come in my lifetime and for that, I have to embrace every jew.
Comment by rabbiofberlin — July 7, 2008 @ 2:17 pm
61.
Why all the celebration? This is a huge tragedy.
A girl from a Chassidishe home who has gotten lost and is desparately trying to hold on to some remnant of her yddishkeit.
Comment by deepthinker — July 7, 2008 @ 2:20 pm
62.
IN regards to #60’s comment,
“I also see that you are silent on the other two items I discussed. Why? is it because I am right?”
As seen from your previous posts you are not intrested in truth , but have your won personal accounts to settle. You misinterput and misunderstand basic halacha.
However, I will give you some credit and that is Halacha must be clearly stated that what this cop is doing is not halachic correct, however we have no right to condem her. At least she is still connected to Shabbos.
I thought alot about this story today and I feel it was a big mistake on the part of this site to publish the story. If she is from the Chadish velt, she has parents, siblings (maybe a lot), neices, nephews who are probly very embaressed by all of this.
L’maasah it’s really non of our business and I want to ask mechilah from anyone who might have been hurt by my posts or from this discussion in general. After all if we are talking about what is halachic, embaressing someone is one of the worst and so is lashon Hara.
I think we should end the discussion and YWN should take the story off the site.
Comment by Bowzer — July 7, 2008 @ 3:13 pm
63.
to #47 you say “as far as wearing pants…plenty of halachik sources” can you refer to us 2,3 of those “plenty” sources ? also talmud hoiyah..shehoiya metahar es hashretz bmayah vchamishim tamim..”eurivin 18b (?) so one can make a pilpil and be matir everything..you show us where one can see ehrliche yiddenes that go in pants….we can gaurantee you that those who go with pants are ususally mechalel shabbos ,eat treife,if not in their homes in restaurant, , go mixed swimming, we will not mention which denomination, whatever that means, because you and your likes will start ranting and raving “what…blah, blah,”.show us any ehrliche yid (traditionalist in your language..as if to hold the toireh and arba chelkay shulchen urechh, including those dinim in shulchen urech aven ezer simon 20, 21, 22 etc and all those what you call “nonsense”….
Comment by jent1150 — July 7, 2008 @ 3:27 pm
64.
the world today is very complicated—therefore everyone should concentrate on how they themselves can be a better jew and stop judging others(i’m also talking for myself.)
Comment by BP individual — July 7, 2008 @ 4:08 pm
65.
No. 11, Sammygol, writes: “Well, we all want understanding, caring law enforcement, who won’t trample on our customs, and will go along with whatever we have to do to live according to our rules.”
Do you mean to imply that if the wife of a mafioso were to become a police officer, she could refuse to investigate a “hit” if the “rules” of her “family” approved the hit? Is a Jewish police officer supposed to favor Jews?
Comment by nfgo — July 7, 2008 @ 4:10 pm
66.
Isn’t a gun a ‘klei zayin’, which is beged ish?
If im not mistaken that is one of the reasons the girls of Israel shouldn’t join the zahal!
And in my opinion, I don’t think any good can come out of this.
Comment by lgbg — July 7, 2008 @ 4:32 pm
67.
TO JOSEPH 57/58:
OK, let’s talk about NYC. You are correct that it is very difficult to get a CARRY license for a pistol unless you are a big macher, a friend of the Mayor or carry or transfer large sums of money. However, a citizen (or green card holder) CAN obtain a license to keep a pistol in their house or place of business for protection. That is called a residence or business premise license (naturally enough!). It requires making a few trips down to One Police Plaza to get an application, to hand in the application, etc., having your criminal record checked out and paying a mess of fees. You also have an interview with a license division police officer. If everything is OK, you get the license in about 6 months. A resident premise license also lets you transport your pistol in a locked box to and from a target range for practice. As for a rifle, the process is much faster, cheaper and quicker. The Rifle-Shotgun license office is at 120-55 Queens Blvd. The license enables you to buy and keep a rifle or shotgun in the house and take it out in a case to a range. Again, it is MUCH easier than obtaining a premise pistol license. Hope this helps you……
Comment by geshmack — July 7, 2008 @ 4:36 pm
68.
ironically enough, this article appeared on the same page next to the “front page” headline continuation regarding religious rights, vis a vis the woman whose hair was uncovered in the mugshot. (which has already been adressed) which could be useful if CV a frum woman was ever brought in and was required to remove her shaitel for a photograph!!
Comment by maven123 — July 7, 2008 @ 5:17 pm
69.
I didn’t have time to read all the comments. However there is only one thing I have to say. “LO YIHYEH KLI GEVER AL ISHA”!!! A weapon is a kli gever! ‘Nuff said.
There is no defense.
Comment by avremele — July 7, 2008 @ 5:32 pm
70.
Thank you geshmack!
Comment by Joseph — July 7, 2008 @ 5:46 pm
71.
# 65
Thanks for asking. What was written and meant is that just a week ago everyone was upset, and correctly, about a story with shaitel removal for mug shots. This is just ONE of many issues that arise when the law enforcement, for one, doesn’t know about certain sensitivities and modes of behavior of Orthodox Jews. Having someone on the force who does, will definitely lessen the possibility of unneeded embarrassment, even if an arest has to be made.
That has zero to do with favoritism, and has no relevance to mafiosi. Nowhere has anyone insinuated that a frum officer should look the other way or grant illegal favors. However, if the party involved is “of your own kind”, there is much much smaller possibility of prejudice, brutality, or intolerant statements.
Do you disagree?
Comment by sammygol — July 7, 2008 @ 5:57 pm
72.
to #60 …thats how it is with the other”denomoinations” when pointed out to them how they are against the torah they yell ahavas yisrorel, loshen hora, when it is convinient for them…ahavas yisriel is not blank check see perek arevai psochim..lshon horah also not, regarding those who are oiver b’farhesia avairos see gemorrah erichun in the sugye of loshen horah…
Comment by jent1150 — July 7, 2008 @ 6:37 pm
73.
#40:
Right. Because people who left the orthodox fold do not deserve respect. Exactly.
Try this on for size though: maybe she left the orthodox fold because she saw how people like yourself think about and treat others?
Besides the fact that not showing respect in no way encourages her to return to Judaism – all it does is push her farther away.
Comment by illini07 — July 7, 2008 @ 7:10 pm
74.
sammygol: And you have no issues with her wearing pants? With her keeping her hair uncovered (as she was in the picture)?
You agree with that?
Comment by Doc — July 7, 2008 @ 7:41 pm
75.
# 74
Pants and hair etc…..
Kindly reread my post to see WHAT I wrote. Is there a problem with the issues you have mentioned? Definitely. Were any of those mentioned in the YW original blog? NO. I wrote as a reply to #1, and that is that. Looking up her pictures on the web was of no interest to me personally, and of no relevance to the teshuva quoted by that poster.
So, again, her uncovered head, if you have seen such, is as much of a problem as if she didn’t observe Yomim Tovim, for example. Neither of these were stated, save for her joining the force and keeping Shabbos.
Comment by sammygol — July 7, 2008 @ 8:05 pm
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