Women should not be allowed to eat in the sukkah

by Heshy Fried on September 24, 2013

I’ve gotten this picture from several folks and I just don’t understand what the big deal is? I think it’s like anything most of the klal is not used to and would be the same response toward any mitzvah in which the women is not chayiv. Why do we let women eat in the sukkah without an uproar, yet when they want to put on a talis, daven, learn navi and chumash, we just sit idly by while they do things that are not required of them. Isn’t it obvious by now that any woman who wants to go beyond the letter of the law is just doing it to show that they are equal to men? Men going beyond the letter of the law and doing things that are not required are congratulated, yet women are chastised for being feminists and I understand the fear of the breakdown of the shtetl myth mesorah we have created for ourselves.

Kudos to Bobov for being the first to publicly acknowledge this common breach of halacha in many frum communities.

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Comments on this entry are closed.

Keli Leeba

So, who will be shlepping the food???
- Dan
  
  FTR: I think the sign refers to that specific sukka
g.s.

It says during sukis. Shmini arzeres and simchas torah its aloud.
- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:DRosenbach DRosenbach
  
  Chanukah is permitted as well.
- just sayin
  
  you got 2 of the 3 holidays spelt wrong. nor allowed.
Rachael

That sukkah looks more like a refugee camp. No thanks.
http://yeshivadaze.wordpress.com Shragi

I agree, women have been usurping men’s roles for too long in klal yisroel, it’s about time someone put a stop to it. Kudos to Bobov.
David

A conversation between my wife and I:

Wife: I want to make Kiddush.
Me: Okay. I want to light Shabbat candles.
Wife: That’s my job!
Me: Hmm.

We both had a good laugh. She decided not to make Kiddush. I didn’t really want to light Shabbat candles. On the other hand, if she had, would there have been any harm done to Torah? I doubt it.
- Chus
  
  First of all, it’s a “conversation between my wife and me,” not “my wife and I.” Any “harm done to Torah.” What does that mean?? Is that some kind of frummy expression? But, more importantly, where does it say in the Torah that women cannot make kiddush?
  - Avi
    
    Where does it say in the Torah to make Kiddush at all?
    - Chus
      
      And your point is what?
      - Alter Cocker
        
        His point is that obviously there can’t be a rule against women making kiddush in the Torah if kiddush is not in the Torah to begin with.
  - David
    
    My response keeps getting dropped. Oh well.
Me

You can’t compare being in the sukkah to wearing a tallis.
Women are allowed to do most time-based mitzvot that they are not obligated to do. The problem with a tallis is that it is begged ish and therefore the woman would be doing an averah not a mitzvah.
- http://yeshivadaze.wordpress.com Shragi
  
  The problem chareidim have with women wearing a tallis is that a tallis is beged ish? Um, you haven’t been reading the Yated, come on, you’ve gotta know the issues before you pontificate on them.
  - me
    
    I’m not talking about what Haredim think or say, I’m talking about halacha.
    There is no problem with a women doing a time bound mitzvah, there are just a few exceptions and that is one of them.
    - Telz Angel
      
      Dear Me,
      I have a real shay’la. If a woman wears a four cornered wrap that is clearly large enough to be a beged, and has exactly 4 squared off corners — is she obligated to put tzitsis on that wrap? I’m not asking if she is obligated lechatchila to wear a tallis, I know she is not. I’m asking if she is already wearing a beged isha that has 4 corners, how can she get out of the mitzva of putting tzitsis on that item?
      - Former Neighbor of Yours
        
        ???? ??? ??? ?????
        Therefore it is time-bound.
- An_ony_mouse
  
  And what if it’s not a tallis, but rather, it’s a four cornered women’s clothing. A know a girl who cut a tank top to give it four corners and then put tzitzis on it. It was beged isha, and she even tucked in the tzitzis (so most people didn’t know about it; I only knew because it came up in conversation).
- Dan
  
  The idea that a tallis is beged ish is sourced to the targum yerushalmi on the pasuk there, and was never quoted (as far as I know) le’halacha until the 20th century. Many prominent poskim have allowed women (with the correct intention to fulfill the mitzvah) to wear a tallis, including Rav Moshe and the Rav.
  - Superintendant Chalmers
    
    Ummm….that’s a rather hefty comment
    
    Do you have any source whatsoever that either the Rav or Rav Moshe allowed a woman to wear a tallis?
    - Dan
      
      ????? ??? ???? ???? ??? ? ???? ??
      The story of the Rav is a bit more involved, and is only quoted second-hand., albeit in published writings. A woman came to him and asked to wear a tallis. He permitted her to wear a tallis without tzitzis to see why she wanted to. She replied later that it was very spiritual. He responded that it was forbidden to her to wear a tallis with tzitzis because her spiritual experience was not from the mitzvah (because she had not preformed a mitzvah). Thus we can infer that had she felt lacking without the tzitzis he would have authorized her to wear them because her intention to perform the miotzvah would have been proven correct.
      - Dan
        
        Sorry, the hebrew that got blocked is the reference for Igros Moshe Orach Hayim 4:49. He says that a woman should wear a slightly different four cornered garment than a man if she wants to perform this mitzvah.
Anonymous

You misunderstand the sign.It isn’t forbidding women from entering A sukkah. It is their sukka filled with men at all times that they don’t wan’t women in.V’Che Isha B’Azarah Minayan…
G*3

Is “strictly forbidden” less offensive in Yiddish? That’s a serious question, because if it is, then I understand the sign. If not, well… it’s strongly reminiscent of signs saying “Juden Verboten.” Which I’m sure is unintentional, but someone should point that out to whoever is in charge there.
Rachael

Someone in charge of Yiddish should be alerted to the disturbing similarities between it and German. Some of us have delicate sensibilities, I see…
Claudia Roberts

Oy vey folks.
Eve

This sign is not just forbidding women to prevent mixing with men for reason on Tzniut- it says a whole lot more than that – read the message… “And your Camp should be Holy” and THEN “Entrance for women STRICTLY forbidden”. This implies connection between Holiness and absence of women . How sad..can you imagine a young girl growing up being exposed to these messages ? It is a subtle form of emotional abuse
- http://andsarah.blogspot.com And Sarah Laughed
  
  Good catch! Wow.
Claudia Roberts

Hello? Can we not read? And why are we assuming the intention? Let’s all just take a breath. …. a) I don’t know one frum woman who even wants to eat outside. And b) if we cook it. … We control it! Spit, pee, rat poison. A true feminist actually KNOWS where her power lies. Freezing or sweating in a jew hut not required for self esteem or self worth. Duh!
- Alter Cocker
  
  So if you cook something, you contemplate peeing in it? Nice to know.
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Women should not be allowed to eat in the sukkah

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