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Why Yeshiva University is more dangerous than YCT and open orthodoxy

open_mindedWe can hem and haw all day about Open Orthodoxy and it’s threat to Judaism, but in reality, no truly frum person holds of YCT, Maharat, Avi Weiss, or any of the other shenanigans that cling to the open orthodoxy label. Anyone who opens a gemara on a regular basis, checks their vegetables for bugs, and makes it to shachris more than once a week is probably not going to even consider the open orthodox movement to be somewhat valid. To most frum people, Open Orthodoxy is just a bunch of conservative Jews who want to have a mechitza and take on a label they aren’t entitled to. On the other hand, Yeshiva University is viewed as Orthodox by most frum Jews, sure the yeshivish velt takes cracks at YU, but it’s generally viewed as part of Orthodoxy and this is precisely why it’s so dangerous to authentic Judaism.

Yeshiva University and their stream of watered down supposedly Hirschian Judaism has been moving ever slightly to the right they say, but don’t be fooled. Just last week, I read an article by a woman who feels it’s high time for the social norms of girls wearing pants to change. Remember last year when a girl wrote a piece about her one night stand, it made a big deal, YU sought to hide the true ways of its students by taking away funds for its student run newspaper, but the damage was done. Yeshiva University masks its haskallah-esque ways behind the black hats of its rabbis, but since when do black hats mean anything? Behind all of those black hat bearded rabbis, is a student body of kippah sruga and jeans wearing evil doers.

Did you know that many YU supporters also support the widespread usage of the Koren Sacks siddur? Many people don’t know this, but lead poskim tried to ban such a siddur from being printed, not only would it damage artscrolls monopoly on the siddur market, but like it’s open orthodox supporters, Koren siddurs have an apologetic paragraph about shelo asani isha…since when has this issue been even a hava minah to the frum world. Slowly but surely, YU is sneaking it’s left leanings ways into Orthodoxy, Under the guise of authentic Judaism they lurk, unlike their cohorts at YCT, they have “tall enough” mechitzas and don’t advertise that they have a masters degree in Talmudic studies for women, chazal bring down multiple times about how bad it is to teach women Torah.

We must bring to light the terrible tragedy that Yeshiva University is sneaking into authentic Judaism, while everyone is still focusing on these conservatives with mechitzas.

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{ 28 comments… add one }
  • Yossi June 9, 2013, 10:29 PM

    I’ve seen ads for a ‘Personal Sukkah’ which is big enough for one person, so why not have the Personal Mechitzah? A person can walk around while wearing it – I think that would solve lots of problems.

    • Devin June 13, 2013, 7:44 AM

      lol that’s so coming one day. I’ve seen something simular at a chassidish wedding for women when they are eating. So silly

  • Dan June 9, 2013, 10:36 PM

    No, no, we’re totally conquering them. They’re frummer than a galach.

  • Anonymous June 9, 2013, 11:52 PM

    What’s the deal with Open Orthodoxy? It’s just MO + Women. And what’s the fuss over Rabbi Avi Weiss?

    • Heshy Fried June 10, 2013, 8:50 AM

      Since when does Orthodoxy ordain woman rabbis? Have you been to open orthodox shuls? They have women’s laining, women’s mincha, they throw candy at girls who are bas mitzvah, they tend to have low levels of kashrus (go into the fridge) and they tend to be made up of mostly non-orthodox members willing to put up with the mechitza because everything else is similar to non-orthodox.

      • Telz Angel June 10, 2013, 10:28 AM

        Women are allowed to daven and lain? I thought the Torah explicitly said they must be baby makers and cooks. Kitchen and bedroom — never a shul. That’s what God wants, and by God, I mean the gedolim.

        The OO minyanim I know about only allow women to lain if it’s in a women’s only group. I know non-OO minyanim how do the same (e.g. on Simchat Torah).

        But I never knew they throw candy at the girls. That implies that all the girls then have to cower around the floor on their knees to pick up the candy from the floor. Catfights, skirts, mmmm. If only we had cameras set up, we could sell the images on the internet. Such Prizus. Those terrible Choy-vey-vey people are going to make me do another averia if I think about this some more.

      • Anonymous June 10, 2013, 9:40 PM

        Here’s a better question. Can you show me a rabbi today with real s’michah? Rabbis now are a modern invention, so I don’t see women rabbis immediately violating any halacha on this issue. As for your personal anecdote with OO shuls, I cannot say I’ve ever been to one. So, I’ll just take your word for it.

      • Anonymous June 13, 2013, 7:45 AM

        Sounds like most Chabbads

        • anon June 22, 2013, 9:24 PM


  • Aharon June 10, 2013, 3:18 AM

    The sad thing is, there are people who really do think this

  • David S June 10, 2013, 5:10 AM

    I’ve always believed the Modern Orthodoxy has more in common with the Conservatives than with the Haredim, at least at the Rabbinical level. Yes, there are differences in the application of the Mitzvot, but on the lifecycle and synagogue issues the differences are absolutely minor. It is really about the commitment of the population to the religion. If the Conservatives were observant of their own rulings on the Mitzvot, the distinctions would blur considerably.

    The Haredim on the other hand have a completely different worldview than the other streams, they are intellectually incompatible with the thought process of the Modern Orthodox person. YCT is absolutely not a problem for MO. They are a possible way of expanding it.

    • Hendl June 16, 2013, 2:38 AM

      They are very different. Conservative Judaism treats Females Equally to Men. NO Mechitza; Women are allowed to sing; Women Rabbis are Allowed and Encouraged. Their level of Kashrut – even officially -is lower than that of Modern Orthodox. Women can be President of the Shul, etc. They have true Bas Mitzvas, equal to the guys.

  • Never Frum Enough June 12, 2013, 11:15 AM

    Enjoying how Heshy gently mixes his actual views with his sarcasm, and many miss it! Love it Heshy!

  • Yoav June 12, 2013, 5:10 PM

    For the record, Artscroll has a paragraph explaining shelo asani isha that is just as apologetic as in the Koren Sachs siddur.

    • Dan June 13, 2013, 1:49 AM

      I never got why feminists have a problem with this. If wimmin are really so mistreated, shouldn’t it be obvious why a man would be glad to not be one?d

      • Anonymous June 13, 2013, 5:12 AM

        I don’t know how a woman could be Islamic or Jewish. Its so obviously written by caveMEN.

        • Dan June 16, 2013, 6:03 AM

          Bec what’s their other choice? Everything else is also. Democracy was made by men; the US was made by men.

          Even atheism is made by men.

          • Anonymous June 16, 2013, 7:14 AM

            Yea….but in all those other things they EQUALITY

      • Allen Roth June 25, 2013, 10:41 AM

        But your sentiment about why a man would be glad not to be one (a woman) is not the sentiment behind the brochah “she-lo asa-ni ishah.” The sentiment behind the brochah is that men are higher creatures than women [supposedly because they have more mitzvos that they can fulfill.”
        Can’t you see the difference?

    • Neil June 13, 2013, 7:55 AM

      I don’t like the Koren siddur because it is too big and heavy. I don’t like Artscroll because the italics are hard on the eyes, and the many font sizes and gray boxes on the Hebrew side make it difficult to read.

      I use Birnbaum.

      • Jesus Had a Public Revelation too...so? June 13, 2013, 9:32 AM

        I hate Birnbuam but love Artscroll because I think it is easy to read someone else’s irrelevant Bronz Age, war inspired prayers.

  • SK June 13, 2013, 4:04 AM

    I notice that this year’s three graduating Maharats all have double last names. It’s better than having hyphens.

  • Ghottistyx June 16, 2013, 7:42 AM

    Avi Weiss has listed 3 differences between OO and Conserv.

    1) the Conserv movement has by-and-large rejected Torah MiSinai: there may have once been a Torat Moshe, but what we have today has been seriously edited. Weiss disagrees with them on this and takes a traditional Orthodox view on Torah MiSinai.

    2). Halachik precedence of earlier rulings. Conserv rabbis are often willing to completely ignore thousands of years of tradition in favor of modern thinking when paskening. Weiss believes that in determining Halacha, one must still take into consideration what has previously been ruled throughout the years.

    3). As mentioned above, halachik observance is a big one. Many Conserv rabbis will only make a big deal about intermarriage. That is, they will encourage you to follow Halacha but won’t make a stink about it. But Weiss strongly encourages his followers to keep Halacha.

    And this is what Weiss would say to those who ask why he doesn’t just call himself Consev.

    • Dan June 16, 2013, 11:24 AM

      Maybe he should call himself “Closed Conservative” then?

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