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Off The Derech Community writes Halachic Guidelines

In the early 90’s when the Kids At Risk movement began it wasn’t anything to get too excited over, basically a bunch of yeshiva kids with ADHD who would roam from yeshiva to yeshiva until they hit the end of the line at Rudinsky, Hamilton, Rochester or Adelphi. When they were done with school, they would hang out in pool halls and listen to Metallica. Fast forward 15 years to today’s highly sophisticated movement of Off The Derech communities around the world. Never did anyone think that those angry yeshiva rejects could form such a community filled with art, culture, and a highly intellectualized population of folks who have all left the community to form their own.

The Off The Derech community is kind of like the modern day haskala, they are at work doing their own kind of kiruv, or reverse kiruv shall we say. Deprogramming the lies, propaganda and cult material that has been shoved down the throats of everyone who’s grown up frum. Of course, like any fast growing community the OTD folks need to have some halachic guidelines, their own shulchan aruch if you will, so that they can start their mesorah somewhere.

I can’t imagine what the community will look like in 50 years from now, I like to compare it to the gay community in some ways. There are so many closeted members, people who you’d never guess belonged in the OTD community, yet were fervent believers in being OTD. Coming out as OTD is also a pretty big deal for many folks, I have celebrated with many friends of mine who finally admitted to being OTD (I feel that OTD is just another derech and there really is no right derech is there?)

If you want tosee how the OTD world communicates and thinks, there is a closed OTD group on Facebook, at the risk of being called a kofer, I’d like to compare the OTD group to the Gemara. Ideas are being spewed on a constant basis and responses are so varied you wonder how far reaching the OTD community goes. For instance, in my opinion, in order to be considered off the derech you had to have once been orthodox. Either way, this talmudic-like OTD page is very exciting because it’s creating the OTD mesorah.

For instance, the OTD mesorah is definitely skewed toward a liberal viewpoint, probably because they are rejecting the mostly rabid right wing political views of the frum community. I’m sure there are OTD folks who are forming their own OTD communities, akin to modern orthodoxy, reform, conservative, humanistic, etc…

Below, is what I would like to call the OTD mishna, I am certain that there are already debates going on as to what exactly things mean. At some point there will be splinter groups, for instance one would think that kiruv would be allowed because it encourages some debate and discussion beyond the echo chamber. If everyone agrees on something than discussion ends, so why not insert some people who are disagreeable to the populous. At some point the OTD community will expand beyond focusing on their off the derechness, but this is still years away.

Admin Guidelines OTD FB Group

Security note:

Anyone can see the group and its members. Only members see actual posts.

Member rules:

  1. No Kiruv!
  2. We have some members who are still closeted OTD, and we don’t want frummies snooping around. Please only join this group if you are Off the Derech to some degree (skeptical and questioning counts, we welcome the orthoprax).
  3. Respect members privacy. Some members are operating under a pseudonym, and that is fine. Don’t pressure them into revealing their names, location or background; some people want privacy.
  4. Be polite and sensitive. Just because we are all OTD doesn’t mean we all agree on everything. Some of us are atheist and some aren’t, some are conservative and some are liberal and some are libertarian and some are socialists, etc.
  5. All political views and non-frum religious views are welcome as long as you are OTD to some degree. However being an OTD group, views that argue with people from a frum perspective are unwelcome and considered a form of kiruv.
  6. Some members are newly off the derech and may not know the extent to which some of their views have been skewed by the community they grew up in, or how to interact in mixed company. Some may be testing boundaries having been raised with completely different ones and not knowing where the new ones are. Some may be used to a more vitriolic way of interacting on the internet. It is *always* better to argue calmly and gently give constructive criticism than to go on the attack and try to beat the idea out of them.
  7. Effective debate involves stating opinions and backing up with facts and/or evidence, not personally attacking someone on the basis of their opinion.
  8. If you are offended by someones beliefs, posts, comments, interactions, et cetera, you can block that poster so his/her comments no longer appear in your feed.
  9. Please do not post pornographic pictures (pictures including uncovered nipples and/or genitalia) to the main board, many people visit this site from work computers and we do not want to compromise people’s jobs.
  10. Allowing the moderators to view all comments posted by members is integral to maintaining the accepting and open atmosphere on the Off The Derech Facebook group. Blocking a moderator will result in a warning and request to unblock the moderator in question. Failure to comply after two requests will result in dismissal from the group.
  11. While it is generally assumed that board etiquette dictates that one should not spam the board, it needs to be posted that one should refrain from spamming the board.


What constitutes being impolite:

  1. Personal attacks and insults INCLUDING using hate speech and racial/ethnic/religious slurs in an effort to promote hatred and discord within this community.
  2. Attacking people on the basis of their gender, race, nationality, sexual orientation, gender identity and/or expression, age , disability, mental illness, ethnicity, location, educational attainment, or former religious group
  3. Continuing with remarks that other users complained about and which the mods have warned you about.
  4. Cybersex topics, or derailing topics into cybersex


If any of these above rules are being violated:

  1. One of our mods will warn the person, stating why she/he is being warned.
  2. If behavior is repeated she/he will get a second warning
  3. Once the second warning is violated, a time-out will go into effect in which the offending party will be removed from the board for a 24 hour period, followed by a week of probation, during which the offending behavior should be corrected. Three out of four mods must agree for a time-out to take place.
  4. If the violation is repeated, the violator will be warned a second time and given a second time-out for 72 hours followed by a week of probation, during which the offending behavior should be corrected. Additionally, the offending party will be forced to wear a scarlet A and his/her fingernails will be peeled off.
  5. If said person violates the rules a third time within that probation period, a one month time out will be put in place after which the offender will be on a three month probation.
  6. Upon the agreement of moderators, a fourth offense during that probation period will result in a one year time out during which we hope you forget all about us.


Admin rules

Admin will be revoked if:

  1. People are banned without consulting the three other mods.
  2. Other mods are added without involving the other mods
  3. Starting another competing group.


Plan of action if a posting and its comments are about to derail:

  1. While we would prefer not to take down any comments, and we do not want to censor any ideas, if they clearly and deliberately violate the terms of use, offending comments will be taken down. Moderators are not constantly on the board 24/7, so if there is a problem please alert us so that it can be dealt with accordingly. Sending an email with the offending remarks and the thread in which they appear is crucial to deciding whether or not they will be removed.
  2. Any comments removed are removed at the sole discretion of the mods. The moderators have jobs and lives and cant be on facebook 24/7, but they do check facebook frequently. Be patient.
  3. Once moderators have ruled on a comment removal or a time out, that ruling is final. Repeatedly bringing up an issue that has been ruled on because you disagree with with the ruling is beating a dead horse, will not change our minds, and if deemed disruptive may result in a time out.

Find out more on 4torah.com

{ 122 comments… add one }
  • bec January 30, 2013, 11:09 AM

    that was awesome. i am proud to have had a hand in creating those otd halachik guidelines.

    • Chatzkaleh January 30, 2013, 11:54 AM

      you rule! (pun intended)

  • f this January 30, 2013, 11:13 AM

    “I feel like there is no derech.” So a Jew can pray to Jesus then? Moron.

    • Sarah January 30, 2013, 11:57 AM

      Can he not? What prevents him?

    • zalman January 30, 2013, 12:16 PM

      jesus, the rebbe; what’s the difference?

      • Winston Smith January 30, 2013, 1:01 PM

        “jesus, the rebbe; what’s the difference?” Since they’re both dead – bingo exactly!

        • Hmm April 25, 2013, 9:11 PM

          You think jesus was a good guy when he was alive? And his death is the only disqualifying thing about him?

          • Princess April 25, 2013, 9:42 PM

            Jesus stood up to the religious leaders of the day and their hypocrisy and chumrahs. That should be a plus.

            • The 8th Lubavitcher Rebbe April 26, 2013, 3:04 PM

              Jesus died a criminal. The 7th Lubavitcher Rebbe died a tzaddik.

              • Princess April 26, 2013, 4:16 PM

                “Jesus died a criminal.” Correct, Isaiah 53:12. ” The 7th Lubavitcher Rebbe died a tzaddik.” There are people that would agree with that statement, and those who would disagree. I don’t have enough personal knowledge to pick a side 🙂

  • abandoning eden January 30, 2013, 11:16 AM

    Ha I remember when we wrote those 🙂 Also, there are already several splinter groups- at least 2 decent size groups that have splintered off because of disagreements with this group + dozens of smaller “subgroups” based on common interests.

  • JewishAtheist January 30, 2013, 11:21 AM

    Nice article, but I’d describe the group as more of a place to simply vent and chat with people who have a (fairly) similar background. For many members, esp those still living the double-life, it’s a sanctuary where they can just be themselves. We don’t have an agenda, at least not as a group. Some of us have our side-projects though (e.g. I have a jewish atheist blog). And while there’s serious discussion, and plenty of disagreement, the group is pretty light-hearted. It’s great to find people with whom you can laugh and cry about your experiences waving chickens, talking to a wall, discovering that bacon is delicious, or dealing with blowback from family, rabbis, and friends about our non-belief (e.g. being thrown out of the house).
    We’re a community, not a cause.

  • anon January 30, 2013, 11:37 AM

    1. This group is very intolerant of anyone who doesn’t go along w their specific beliefs
    2. There are already a few break off groups
    3. People should stop focusing on how much they hate the frum world and move on with their lives

    • Heshy Fried January 30, 2013, 1:51 PM

      just like the regular frum community

      • ms January 31, 2013, 12:54 AM

        thats a good observation!

    • Aaron Englard January 30, 2013, 3:59 PM

      Actually the group is the opposite of intolerant. If one only associates with people of similar viewpoints then one cannot claim to be tolerant. And as it has been pointed out, it is an extremely diverse group of people and views.

      As to your claim that it is focused on hatred of the frum community, that is just simply false. I will not expound on that further other than to restate that hatred of the frum if it is ever brought up, it is only in context of debate and discourse of policy and discussion of specific issues. People may bear resentment, but hate is ridiculous and unfounded allegation.

      • Sarabeth January 30, 2013, 5:55 PM

        Agreed! Well said. 🙂

    • AztecQueen2000 January 30, 2013, 7:37 PM

      Actually the rules presented seem very similar to the rules for living in polite society.

      • Aaron Englard January 31, 2013, 4:58 AM

        You mean OTDers are part of society and live among regular people? Shocking.

    • Claire April 25, 2013, 9:47 PM

      I have seen a lot of this. When a person leaves a cult, the cult doesn’t necessarily leave them. They have internalized many of the attitudes, even if they leave the doctrine behind.

  • bec January 30, 2013, 11:46 AM

    please expound on that.
    also, what are the group’s “specific beliefs?”

  • anon January 30, 2013, 12:21 PM

    To be honest, I used to be in a few of the OTD groups. The negativity in there was so draining. The general attitude helped me realize how much time we spend bashing others and not making ourselves better. One good thing came from this group. It helped me open my eyes to the positive and beautiful things about being religious. I am now “frum” again.

    • bec January 30, 2013, 1:03 PM

      that’s actually wonderful, anon. so there is something to be gained from an otd group. it made you realize that you were happier being frum. wishing you much luck in your future endeavors.

    • Winston Smith January 30, 2013, 1:06 PM

      Much of the discussion in some of these groups is actively pushing of atheism. That is, in effect, attempting to proselytize. I respect all Jews. No one is perfect and everyone should be able to do what they do without being judged. But how is actively pushing atheism creating a forum for everyone to voice their honest thoughts without fear of being mocked? The vitriol disturbs me. What if someone wants to believe in God but simply believes that God doesn’t need them to [fill in the blank; put on tefillin; wear only skirts; keep Shabbos, etc.] ? or what if they want to keep just the Biblical commandments but not the Rabbinic ones?

      • JewishAtheist January 30, 2013, 1:21 PM

        Though I personally am an atheist, and am happy to discuss my views (esp if I’m asked!), I don’t think our group pushes atheism on people. We have lots of non-atheists in our OTD group, and people who are observant to different degrees or in their own ways.

      • bec January 30, 2013, 2:22 PM

        really? are you part of these groups and know this for a fact? or are you just speculating?
        at any rate, based on your comment, i assume that you also disagree with kiruv, and i appreciate that. that’s actually wonderful, winston, and i’m glad we agree on that.

        • Aaron Englard January 31, 2013, 4:34 AM

          I’m surprised. I’m quite certain that you aren’t in the OTD group being discussed here, and if you are in any other OTD groups its sad that you’ve experienced vitriol and active atheistic pushing. I’m curious- since you are so familiar with the main OTD group being discussed here, and you aren’t a part of it, why do follow so many members of the group that you find so objectionable? And if you are speak with such firm knowledge on the subject where are you basing it on?

          • Chatzkaleh January 31, 2013, 11:25 AM

            Winston, you wanted to become a member but you haven’t replied to my message and now are bashing us.

            Nhhh…maybe next time.

            Oh yes, I am not an atheist. And neither are others in the group.

      • Princess April 25, 2013, 9:54 PM

        I’ve reached the conclusion that polemics never leads to balance or truth. In an attempt to correct or oppose an error, you create one of your own, and often one that is worse.

  • Port yid January 30, 2013, 12:26 PM

    Oy! Anon you rule!

    • anon January 30, 2013, 12:41 PM

      TY 😛

  • SJ January 30, 2013, 12:50 PM

    Some (ok lots lol) of these OTDs are flaming liberals they don’t even care to debate social conservatism even without using religious arguments and only using secular argumets in favor of social conservatism these crazies don’t wanna hear it.

    • Aaron Englard January 30, 2013, 6:26 PM

      1. You are full of it when you speak with absolutism about OTDers being a bunch of flaming liberals as you so delightfully described us with a swift brushstroke.
      2. What is wrong with debating liberals? The most enjoyable discourse that I can indulge in, is that with a well informed and skilled liberal debater.
      3. The idea that any liberal worth his/her salt would run away from a debate on social conservatism, yet you contradict yourself by saying that when secular arguments are in favor of social conservatism they are used…. You are showing your ignorance of the culture.
      A proud independent.

      • SJ January 30, 2013, 8:02 PM

        >> A proud independent…………. [liberal]

        lol there I fixed it. what conservative positions do you hold if you are such an independent?

        • Aaron Englard January 30, 2013, 10:44 PM

          That’s how you respond to my argument by attacking and laughing at the identifier I use- calling myself an independent?

          Even so, I’ll respond to you. An independent is not a conservative, you fool! If I was a conservative I would state that. I have conservative positions specifically in regards to monetary policy, and fiscal policy. I also feel strongly in support of states rights, which most people will consider to be a conservative position.
          I however did not intend the term “independent” as a political party term. Rather as a free thinking, and lack of party association identifier. You jumped to the same ” holier than thou” conclusion that has driven me from the GOP in the recent years, and even from the libertarian party as well.

          Fix that.

          • SJ January 30, 2013, 11:50 PM

            You are not a coherent debater. I have no time to fix all of your grammatical and logical shortcomings so I’ll give you just one freebee

            Even so, Ill respond to you. An independent is not a conservative, you fool! If I was a conservative I would state that.

            I never said you were a complete conservative. I asked what you was conservative on. Got it retard? I got no time for you. Don’t do drugs.

          • LuTHOR February 3, 2013, 10:03 PM

            “Even so, Ill respond to you. An independent is not a conservative, you fool!”

            Hahahahaha! Wow, are you a comic book villain?

  • SJ January 30, 2013, 12:54 PM

    These OTDers just want their tofu with tand they want their ass fuckings if they are men and leg rubbings if they are women. retards. i’m sorry i ever called myself otd and noooooooooooooooooooooooo i’m not orthodox either.

    • Sarabeth January 30, 2013, 6:18 PM

      Derpa herp. Someone’s asshurt. :C lol!

      Honestly, I could care less if you are against gays or gay marriage, though it shouldn’t be your business if adam wants to marry Steve, at least you’re not in their relationship!

      Just don’t get mad if they want to do as they please, without your nose involved!

  • SJ January 30, 2013, 12:58 PM

    If you are against gay marriage, an OTDer will call you a racist.

    • bec January 30, 2013, 1:04 PM

      only those who don’t realize that homosexuality isn’t a race.

    • JewishAtheist January 30, 2013, 1:16 PM

      Not a racist, but possibly an asshole, or maybe just deluded. It’ll depend a lot on the reasons you use to justify such discrimination.

      • SJ January 30, 2013, 4:22 PM

        We are all equally guilty and equally dependent on God for salvation.

        • JewishAtheist January 30, 2013, 6:08 PM

          Salvation? I think you’re in the wrong ballpark SJ. And don’t expect to convince people about your discriminatory views when you begin to explain them by saying that “we all need salvation.”

          • SJ January 30, 2013, 6:19 PM

            I do not view myself as discriminatory towards gays. i hope they all get married to the opposite gender, have kids, and experience personal fulfillment in the human life cycle like normal people.

            • JewishAtheist January 30, 2013, 6:26 PM

              And you think the OTDers are crazy closed-minded people. Riiiiight. And thanks for proving my point.

              • SJ January 30, 2013, 6:35 PM

                Society always has some boundaries, except for Chicago and Egypt. Roflmao

        • Sarabeth January 30, 2013, 6:12 PM

          Not really. P: that’s just you and other frumsies!

        • Aaron Englard January 30, 2013, 6:29 PM

          Don’t lump me in with your “we”

          • SJ January 30, 2013, 6:41 PM

            God already lumped in the whole humanity. All it took was one mistake for the first man to introduce death we are all imperfect.

            • Aaron Englard January 31, 2013, 4:47 AM

              You can choose to blame all life problems on a single mans punishment from a nonexistent “god” concept. I choose my own path.

              I’ll restate- when you say “we” are all equally guilty, and dependent on god, leave me out of your “we”

              • SJ January 31, 2013, 6:49 AM

                WTF are you el perfecto?

                • Aaron Englard February 1, 2013, 2:51 AM

                  No, I’m not perfect. I just don’t appreciate you taking the liberty of assuming that god sees me as guilty of something you feel guilty of.

                  • SJ February 1, 2013, 8:15 AM

                    It’s not that I feel guilty it’s that there is always something that an infinitely perfect God can get ya on. Job was basically righteous but still God felt a need to take Job down a few notches to say the least.

                    • Aaron Englard February 2, 2013, 3:09 AM

                      If god is perfect, how can he improve on that with infinite perfection?

                    • SJ February 2, 2013, 7:06 AM

                      I don’t know. If you are fat how can you improve on it with the name lard?

  • Frak that January 30, 2013, 2:35 PM

    Seriously, the OTD groups to me are JUST as bad. IMO, the only way to be REALLY off the derech is to sever your ties with the community, the people you knew, and move the fuck on.

    • JewishAtheist January 30, 2013, 6:22 PM

      1) Just as bad? Please, by all means, elaborate. Tell us how we tell people what they’re allowed and not allowed to read, how we discourage critical thought, use of science, or how we intimidate people into complying with our rules and ideas. Please, I insist.
      2) “Really OTD”? That’s rather insulting, and rather egotistical. You don’t get to define what OTD means for other people.
      3) “Move the fuck on” – I don’t know about you, but most of my family, or my childhood friends, are still religious. I don’t want to simply sever ties with them. Furthermore, I’m glad you can, apparently, simply turn your back on your upbringing, indoctrination, wasted years, lengthy depression and struggle to find your own way, your peers who are still captured by a mind-virus, the effects these people have on society (e.g. draft dodging, welfare stealing, providing poor education, etc). Personally, I find it a bit more difficult.

      I hope to move on eventually, but don’t be the dick who tells people to ‘just get over it.’

      • Aaron Englard February 2, 2013, 3:16 AM

        Well stated position.

      • Robin February 2, 2013, 7:58 PM

        Dear Jewish Atheist,
        Baruch Hashem, I had the blessing of meeting some truly great teachers who turned me on to Torah through liberating schools of thought. I met or read world renowned scientists like Herman Branvoer, Rabbi Yitzchak Ginsburgh, biology Professor Eliezer Zeiger, Lawrence Kellleman, and Gerald Schroeder who can all spin your brain about the unity of science and Torah. The cultic behaviors you descibe– control of info, shutting down of critical thinking, etc– are practiced by ignoramuses, not true Torah scholars. I know that there are cultic, patriarchal groups in the religious community, but my motto is don’t confuse Jews with Judaism. Don’t confuse the chassidim with the true Rebbe. A true understanding of Torah, something you were definitely not given, should empower and inspire. I can understand how being subjected to controlling rabbis can break a person’s spirit, but maybe someday you will be open to a different kind of approach.

        • JewishAtheist February 3, 2013, 4:01 PM

          Dear Robin,
          I too have met many of these popular scientists and thinkers, as well as many world-renown secular scientists. Believe me, the Jewish apologists aren’t doing a great job. But it’s not their fault; the problem is that Judaism is wrong.
          For instance, Kelemen tries to “debunk” evolution. pfft. Completely idiotic (and his research is terribly lazy). Schroeder tried to put a scientific spin on the “day doesn’t mean day” idea but it’s still a weak apologetic (afterall, the text seems pretty clear, and the vast majority of Jews and Jewish sages throughout history have understood it literally). And besides, there’s not much one can say about plants being created before the sun! Or women being created via rib-surgery. The fact is, there are lots of issues between science and Judaism, and Judaism has only made a modicum of progress in that its moved a bit closer to accepting science.
          As for the cultic behaviors, they are definitely not just from the blind, dumb masses. Usually just the opposite. It’s halacha which says not to study kefirah (control of info); and did you not hear about the internet asifa?

          As for your assertion that I didn’t (and don’t) have a “true understanding of Torah,” that is quite offensive. You don’t know anything about me. You don’t know where I’ve been, what I’ve learned, what I’ve done. Don’t make assumptions. And don’t offer a lame “no true scotsman” arguement.

          And I became an atheist for one reason: Judaism does not make sense.
          If you wish to understand my position – if you’re open to some new info and critical thinking – visit my blog.

          • Robin February 7, 2013, 7:12 PM

            Dear Jewish Atheist,
            I didn’t mean in any way to insult your intelligence. On the contrary. I said that you weren’t “given” a true understanding of Torah. It seems that you haven’t read all the scientific writings I am referring to because the Lubavitcher Rebbe, for instance, agrees that a day means a day. Many Jews of faith had issues with the asifa, including your truly and the most Lubavitchers, who were not invited to participate. Are you open to discussing these issues with real scientists? Nothing in your reply convinced me that you are close to exhausting the subject. The theory of evolution, btw, is just that– a theory. Science has no scientific proofs of the theory’s truth. As science evolves, in fact, many theories once held as truths have been debunked. Please check out Rabbi Yitzchak Ginsburgh and Herman Branover. I personally became a “believer” through my critical thinking. No one in my life imposed religious ideology on me. In fact, the opposite was true…
            I wish you success on your journey!

            • JewishAtheist February 8, 2013, 11:05 AM

              It’s pretty random that I stumbled on this page again and noticed your reply. Again, if you actually want to talk, visit my webpage.

              In regard to your assertion that I wasn’t “given” a “true” understanding of Torah – I refer you again to my original reply about you not knowing a damn thing about me. (And I never understood you as insulting my intelligence. I understood you as dismissing my experience – a sentiment which you repeated again.)

              And while I’ve almost certainly not read “everything,” I’ve read the majority of those apologetics – including writings from the late Lubavitcher rebbe (who, as I recall, still believed in an earth-centered solar-system and creationism). I merely wanted to reference some of the apologists you apparently hold in high esteem and assure you, ‘yes, I’ve seen what they’ve written… and it’s nonsense.’

              Evolution is “just a theory” in the same way that gravity is “just a theory” and unlike Judaism which is not a theory, but just a wild guess in the dark. And I’d be more than happy to debate the subject with you.

              You became a believer through critical thinking? I’m sure you believe that, but honestly, I find that highly unlikely as there’s no good evidence for any of the extraordinary claims of Judaism, including god, genesis, the exodus, Mt. Sinai, the authenticity of the oral law, and more. But if you think there are, then by all means, enlighten me.

              As for the asifa, I’m glad that you and others don’t support banning the internet, but my point remains: Judaism takes steps to control information. The asifa was merely a novel, recent, and huge innovation in that popular stream of Jewish thinking.

              As I wrote before, if you wish to understand my position if youre open to some new info and (actual) critical thinking visit my blog.

    • anon January 31, 2013, 8:38 AM

      agree 100%

  • emmanuele leblanc January 30, 2013, 3:37 PM

    I am very happy that OTD exists ! I write this because I feel (as a 65 years old great-grdma) so so so so so so bad for these kids trapped in an unwanted and unsatisfying frum-framed life. Throught you, the ones who don’t find fullfilment and seek for another road are able to feel less isolated. Congrats to the one who had the guts to start OTD. I see you as oxygene for so many ! ( sorry my English is so so, since I am french).

  • Anna Klava/Sarabeth January 30, 2013, 5:19 PM

    For those considering OTDers closedminded and assholic libtards, you are the same people who insult us when debating, when we try to be civil and accepting but cry “WEH! You atheists/otders are so mean how dare you disrespect frum people! You meany poo poo heads!” and run around screaming how rude we are when you threw the fuel to the fire, lol.

    I’m open to frum people debating or joinibg us, just don’t insult us or lay general claims how we’re all nasty to you just for disagreeing with your conservative viewpoints. 🙂

  • eff you January 30, 2013, 5:33 PM

    unlike 35 years ago a bucher broke himself away, he would move away to another place, he stired away looking for greener grass and better olam hazeh.

    today, these kids left because they are angery on the system, therefore they hate the frum.

    they did not call themselfs OTD, it is we that called them OTD, its not a movement its everybody goes their own way, and its on this road they find other buchrim (and hot girls that want to wear sexy clothing).

    • Anonymous January 30, 2013, 5:54 PM

      I ain’t mad. I’m happier now OTD! 🙂 teehee.

    • book reader January 31, 2013, 7:29 AM

      “…and hot girls that want to wear sexy clothing.”

      do the leaders of this OTD group provide you with sexy clothed girls?
      how can i become a member in this group?

  • Shragi January 30, 2013, 5:46 PM

    This is wonderful! A regular OTD discussion taking place on Frum Satire!

    • Heshy Fried January 30, 2013, 5:55 PM
      • Shragi January 30, 2013, 6:42 PM

        That’s cool Heshy but what I mean is; the conversation above is just like a typical conversation in the OTD group. All the characters crawled out of their hiding places and took up their regular discussion here, you just kinda diverted the traffic from the group to here.

        • Heshy Fried February 1, 2013, 3:24 PM

          2 Jews three opinions, I have no idea why everyone gets so angry. Then again, I’m just a no-good liberal who doesn’t like to get angry about much of anything.

  • s(b.) January 30, 2013, 8:41 PM

    SJ, you can do so much better than that.

  • Aaron Englard January 31, 2013, 4:55 AM

    I answered you what my conservative positions were. You chose to ignore it. Instead you mock me for grammatical and logical shortcomings.

    I quote you- I never said you were a complete conservative. I asked what you “was” conservative
    on. Got it retard? I got no time for you. Dont do drugs.

    Talk about grammatical and logical shortcoming. And is there need to resort to name calling and implying drug use because you can’t respond in any legitimate manner?

  • JL January 31, 2013, 9:52 AM

    What really ticks me off is in the ultraorthodox world, if a child is not as religious as the rest of family it’s viewed as mental illness and some of these young people are given to medication and therapy when it’s the parents should be committed and I don’t mean to religion.

    • Informed Consent January 31, 2013, 11:14 AM

      JL do you mean to say that SOMETIMES if a child is not as religious as the rest of the family it’s viewed as mental illness, or is it ALL the time. Or is it ONCE IN A WHILE, or is it IN THE 4 INSTANCES THAT I PERSONALLY AM AWARE OF.

      I’m curious to know.

  • Sam T April 26, 2013, 6:46 AM

    I think I am late to the party here. But where are all these groups – and how does one join. I am really curious now.

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