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If you can’t control your evil urge, don’t blame it on the women!

42 comments

I’m sick of the Ultra Orthodox community trying to use tznius as a tool for mistreating women, if the men can’t control their evil urges to jump women who want to leave their homes, maybe the men should start staying at home. Since when has it been ok to abuse women, take away their rights and restrain their status as full adults in the name of tznius? How extreme is the community going to get until someone wakes up and realizes that the men may have to start taking responsibility rather than treating the women with disrespect and allowing the men to run amok.

The latest in tznius posters…

Find more ridiculous tznius signs on 4torah.com

  • Alter Cocker

    hilarious sign.

  • Untwisted…

    A rodef is a rodef. Tzniyus is about recognizing and respecting the omnipresence of the Boreh HaOlam, and should be encouraged. The sign reads like women talking to women, and maybe when a woman says “nisayon for men” to other women, it doesn’t compute like it does when you and I read it or say it to each other.

    Know whay I’m sayin?

    • Matt

      Women can be misogynists as well. Encouraging women to avoid the light can be a sakanah. There’s no arguement in favor of a such a sign.

    • http://www.thepredicate.net novus

      It’s awesome where you can get if you just take talmudic concepts out of context. Lets take your logic a step further and make all women wear cardboard boxes… or better: Burquas!

    • xcv54

      “Tzniyus is about recognizing and respecting the omnipresence of the Boreh HaOlam, and should be encouraged”

      Then the sign should also ask men not to go in the light so they wouldn’t be a nisayon for girls.

  • A. Nuran

    If men really were that bad – and they aren’t- then no amount of restriction or standard of dress and behavior would be good enough. Just the idea there’s a woman somewhere out there would turn all of them into seed-spilling machines.

    There would be no reason for women to modify their behavior since the problem would be entirely with the men and insoluble. Saltpeter in the coffee maybe.

    It’s about control. Absolute control over the basic urges is classic cult practice. And with the comfortable bubble growing ever-smaller and thinner there’s a neurotic imperative to control what one can.

    It’s human nature at work, same as everywhere

  • Tinok ShenishBeth

    As a woman, I know why I find this sort of nonsense offensive. What I don’t understand is why men are not also deeply insulted?!

    IMHO, men should be offended when people suggest that women can prevent men from spilling seed, lusting after, or even raping women by simply maintaining a ridiculous level of tznius, or by not going certain places, or by not acting a certain way. 

    This line of thinking presumes that men are not capable of control and that men are so base and uncivilized that they cannot be in the presence of women without being forced into some imagined depravity.  

    It assumes that the natural state of men is a that of a masturbating monkey or possible rapist.  

    • G*3

      The fear isn’t that men will go around raping women. The fear is that a man may get some pleasure from seeing a woman. Even the slightest level of arousal is considered spiritually damaging. The gemara says that a man shouldn’t look even at a woman’s little finger if he gets pleasure from it. And guys do, as a rule, enjoy seeing women.

      I think it’s much worse than assuming that the sight of a woman will send a man into uncontrollable lust. That at least could be disproved. It’s this notion that being ever so slightly attracted to a woman is an evil that’s the real problem. There’s no way to argue against it, and it causes so many guys to feel guilty just for walking down the street and noticing that women exist and are attractive. And so we get yeshiva guys taking off their glasses when they go outside…

      • Marcos

        Liking a woman is not a “rule”, its biology (unless you are gay). To contradict biology is to submerge free will. Free will, is a main purpose is G-D’s creation of humanity. Therefore, to restrict the movement and presence of women in the world is going against G-D’s creation. Amen.

      • Izzy (1)

        I consider looking at face of a beautiful woman spiritually uplifting…..that level of appreciation is just that and nothing more….to be able to appreciate a person’s outer beauty is a gift from Hashem. Where humans have failed is letting the appreciation for beauty turn into wanton uncotrollable lust. That is bad.

        Would it wrong is for me to guess that the spiritually ugly are the ones who draft such ridiculous signage?

        Appreciation for inner beauty…I think that is best defined as Love…whether it be for a person or for Torah!

      • Crowin’ Cock

        G*3,

        That being said, we are commanded to make a bracha when seeing an exceptionally beautiful person, and that includes women. I forgot which of the sages made a bracha on some hot babe, possibly R. Yochanan?

        • Anon

          Baby, I’d make a bracha on seeing you, but my lev is totally roeh es ha’ervah.

          • Crowin’ Cock

            Anon,

            You best be a gal….

            • Anon

              Well, I wasn’t exactly aiming my comment at you.

        • The Other Mike

          Aren’t we also supposed to make a bracha when seeing an ungy or deformed person? Let’s distribute these blessings to our ugly sisters and brothers too!

      • JohnL

        Seriously? The Gemmara is an ass!

      • Shmul

        @ G*3 This argument has other counter arguments which are seemingly contradictory. Like the one mentioned above about the talmudist making a Bracha upon a seeing a beautiful women. Also there is the guys looking at the girls in white dresses while dancing on tu b’av.

        It seems its the quality of how one looks. Or perhaps it’s differing opinions. All I know is that the current charaidi view of what is not exceptible is clearly not the whole picture.

        If you take the pinky comment to the extreme you will have women covering their pinkys as well. Think Saudi Arabia.

    • A. Nuran

      The real assumption is that men are all saintly Torah scholars. Or they would be if it weren’t for you, you disgusting vessel of sin and depravity.

    • Alter Cocker

      no need to be insulted. It’s humor.

    • Anonymous

      Women still need to dress and behave in a tznius manner, irrespective of men. (Does a falling tree in a forest make noise even when no one is around? YES!)

  • Kalteryid

    You pretty much had me at “I’m sick of the Ultra Orthodox community”.

  • An-on

    I heard that the impetus for this sign is the fact that at this very corner there have been an unusual number of fender benders, no doubt due to men unable to pay attention to the road.

  • Michael K

    These nutcases don’t have a chance in scoring with these women, so even looking at them is bitul zman.

    • http://www.frumfemale.blogspot.com frum single female

      lol

  • http://moshemoshel72.blogspot.com din or metziyus

    There are 2 seperate issues that often get confused.

    A woman can not walk around violating the laws of tzniyus which are sourced in shulchan aruch. Take it or leave it.

    2nd. Men are not supposed to look where they aren’t supposed to regardless of how the women are dressed.

    • http://AztecQueen2000.blogspot.com AztecQueen2000

      The sign was in New Square. Streetlight or no, I have a feeling every woman in the area is observing the laws of tznius in both letter and spirit.

      • A. Nuran

        It doesn’t matter. As long as the system continues there will always be new restrictions. The men will still feel lust. The leaders will still get props for being stricter.

        So nothing will ever be good enough

        • Exactly…

          And that’s the essence of the Kvetch. Thank you and goodnight. ;^)

          … Though — for the less intuitive — it is only right to add that “can always be better” is simply another way of saying “can never be good enough”.

  • http://challahbackgirl.com Kate S.

    Word, Heshy. Also, the humor is not lost on me that the sign indicates that these men are in the dark figuratively speaking, and are asking women to quite literally step into the dark.

  • Anonymous
  • Elly Miller

    i dont understand why men dont sleep in a seperate bedroom when their wives are in niddah. if we cant control ourselves (like they say we cant) then why should we put ourselves at risk?

  • http://leibnizgodelaristotle.blogspot.com/ zur

    you should know the zniut thing started out like a velvet glove. i remember a little poster “the main thing in the Torah is zniut” and it was had a really sweet drawing on it. also i was in a shul once when someone got on the bima [the elevated area in a sefardi shul]and announced that people should go around to the stores in the city to advice the women that were not dressed frum that it would be for their benefit to change their standards. and it was emphasized that this was to be said nicely. It reminded me of how communism and the original fascist movement in Italy started out sounding really sweet. [That was before the movement got to Germany.]

  • http://www.hezbos.blogspot.com Hezbos

    You must not – as you do – take a stupid sign, written by a fool, and generalize across “ultra-orthodox men” as you do.

    In effect – you are doing the very thing you are trying to prevent, only instead of a bad sign, you offer a bad rant.

    This has nothing to do with “mistreating women”, has nothing to do with “orthodox” men, or as Reform Rabbis like to stress, as you do too, “Ultra”-orthodox men.

    This has to do with ONE fool. Period. The women in that area, where the sign went up, are smarter and know the truth, otherwise they would have covered that stupid poster with another one.

    Stop looking for things to write about, especially if it knocks Jews, because, as you do here, you do injustice to Torah-true legacy.

    Find something worthwhile to be “sick and tired” about. Like being single and not having a family of your own to adore and nurture in the best way you have abilities for. Taking a free moment’s opportunity to knock orthodoxy surely does you and anyone else any good. Give people the benefit of your doubts, as in this case, where a fool posted something – or said something foolish unintentionally.

    Modesty is a central issue in Judaism. It is not for naught that Moshe was called “the most humble person in the world”. It is for the same reason the Torah was given on modest Mount Sinai – a mount, to be sure, but not the highest, even though it got to deliver the highest. Take it from me – today an elderly fellow – that women CAN draw the eye of a man in various ways. It’s not that we will jump on them therefore. It’s a matter of clean spirits. Why arouse thoughts that can compete with Torah thought when not necessary? Think positively instead of seeking a window of opportunity to denigrate a Jew – let alone a whole sect of Jews.

    It’s about time to give the Ultra Orthodox a break – and, what’s worse, STOP CALLING THEM “ULTRA”. It’s only another form of orthodoxy. Chassidim are chassidim – not ULTRA anything, just as you are not an ULTRA blogger!

    Kindly get off my back.

    • Izzy (1)

      You pre-judge the motives of the sign-poster (calling the person a fool?) and then pre-judge Heshy who was posting it for humor’s sake. On this time between Rosh Hashonah and Yom Kippur, who are you to judge anyone…but yourself?

      This is a SATIRE site. Perhaps you didn’t read the sign.

  • http://www.hezbos.blogspot.com Hezbos

    Izzy – I know a joke when I read one. This statement:
    “I’m sick of the Ultra Orthodox community trying to use tznius as a tool for mistreating women”

    is hardly a joke, young fellow – unless for you everything in life is a joke.

    Now go defend some other nonesense, thereby changing the serious subject to something you want to play with.

  • Izzy (1)

    Gevalt me, a “young fellow”…at 61, I trust you must be kidding. I respect you for being serious…but I think you have drifted onto the wrong website and some of your statements were clearly meant to be hurtful. “….Like being single and not having a family of your own to adore and nurture in the best way you have abilities for.” That’s just mean…many single Jews would find that offensive.

    Whether reformed or Haredi, our depth for tolerance and diversity is what makes our Jewish culture so magnificent. Our ability to seriously criticize ourselves with a tinge of humor is part of our culture. The sign was hilarious.

    There are certainly times to be serious….most of my family in Israel all seek regular PTSD psychologic counseling from their war experiences protecting the rights of (most) Haredis who avoid serving in the IDF so they can follow their Torah-True Legacies. That’s not funny.

    • http://www.hezbos.blogspot.com Hezbos

      izzy – I was thinking of my children when I made that statement you think was said mean. I though, too, of how I felt when I was single. being single is okay for a while but then any normal person feels the urge to marry. That’s how Hashem created us.

      I wanted a make a point and here you came along and twisted everything out of whack. I am easily as tolerant as you are, YOUNG MAN! You too, now – kindly get off my back!

      • http://ha-mayvinyavin.blogspot.com/2012/02/you-dont-have-tv-and-none-of-your.html Alter Cocker

        who’s single? Heshy isn’t.

        Plus, when did being single become such a negative?

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    Satisfy your urges on omegle website

  • Pliny

    “If you can’t control your evil urge, don’t blame it on the women!”
    Not even one percent?

  • http://solomonswizdom.com/ RJS

    Although I’m “reformed,” I agree with you. If men can’t control themselves, women shouldn’t have to suffer. BTW: I’m extremely modest, but do it for myself not men.

  • William Dwek

    So women – still in admiration for the rapists and abusers you cover your heads for? Wigs? Religious hogwash

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