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We must stop Tav Hayosher and its evil left wing agenda!

It doesn’t take a genius to see the evil doings of leftist, supposedly orthodox Jews. They try to twist Torah and Halacha to support their mostly liberal agendas and rarely do anything to benefit the Torah observant community. Tav Hayosher is an evil leftist plan to make the food business legit, if you treat your employees (not only Jewish one’s mind you) well enough for their extremely leftist and unreasonable guidelines, you can get a certificate stating so. It doesn’t take a genius to see that Tav Hayosher is evil, why should Jewish businesses have to treat their hired help properly when no one else does, we are talking about the food business here.

Of course, I’m not the only one who sees the evil that Tav Hayosher and it’s liberal open orthodox commies plan to spread over the kosher food world. We pay enough as it is for kosher certification and while we acknowledge that practices aren’t up to par, anyone with half a brain knows that if you go into the food industry you shouldn’t expect to be treated with any iota of respect. All I see is a bunch of liberal mumbo jumbo about ethics and social justice, where in the Torah does it say that illegal immigrants have to be treated with respect and provided with sanitary bathroom facilities?

The other side of the story:

The Tav Hayosher is just like the better business bureau, they check out a business to see that they are doing a good job with treating their employees with dignity and respect, they make sure the business is under orthodox supervision already and they basically give them a gold star (which is free) to tell others that you should support the business. It has nothing to do with kashrus, it has everything to do with kiddush hashem. Unfortunately, many people in the frum community believe that anything to do with social justice and ethics is an evil left wing conspiracy out to liberalize some aspect of Halacha. Of course treating your workers properly and getting a stamp of approval is a kiddush Hashem.

The folks who are bullying Tav Hayosher restaurants and businesses are despicable. Just because Tav Hayosher is left leaning, in that they support those who are usually treated poorly (trust me the restaurant industry is not known for its ethics) doesn’t mean that they are evil or any less religious than you.  Ethical consumerism is not a bad thing, if anything it supports capitalism in that it gives ethical businesses an edge in the market because of their proper treatment of labor.

I support the Tav and you should to. 

 

Comments on this entry are closed.

  • Dan

    If it was being run by a secular humanities organization, I would probably support it (as long as it wasn’t imposing punitive standards on employers). But when these jews think they have something to say about religion, it makes me laugh too hard that I’m afraid I would choke on the food.

  • Chaim

    Why are there no Tav Hayosher approved restaurants in Rockland County?

    • shmul

      because monsey sucks

  • OLD GEESER

    You ain’t married long enough.
    Come back in a few and we’ll what you think then.

    • rob

      Maybe he should come back after he’s had 6 kids and needs to buy already expensive kosher food for all of them at even higher prices in order to support standards above what the law and hashgacha require.

      I’m all for social justice, but somebody has to pay for it.

      • You do know that the Tav Hayosher is FREE!!! Now come back to me when you know what you’re talking about, dude I’m a chef I can feed a family of 6 on very little compared to most people. Not only do we know where to shop, I myself use everything from congealed fat from my brisket to onion skins and carrot peels.

        • Critic

          Heshy
          I received the following correspondence from a reliable source.

          “I’ve been living in the Baltimore-Silverspring area for the past two years as I get my degree from a local college.

          Tav HaYosher is a complete farce. first, they dont really make any changes in businesses. they just want their placard to be seen by customers in the restaurants.

          Come to silver spring, go to the pizza shops and see for yourself that they hire illegal immigrants (and I don’t think they pay them above minimum wage either).

          I have a friend who was mashgiching at these places, and some of the businesses such as the Hillel at the University of Maryland, withhold wages owed to the workers, and dont pay the full paychecks on time. YET THEY ARE CERTIFIED BY TAV YOSHER!

          No one pays Tav HaYosher [yet] for certification. It doesn’t serve a purpose other than to give Shmuly Yanklowitz and his leftist liberal wackjobs from Riverdale (Avi Weiss- the one who gives smicha to Sarah Horowitz) fame and makes them feel frum.

          These people are not yerei shumayim, theyre prutzim (I have seen this with my own eyes!) .

          This whole “kosher is ethics” trend comes out of the Rubashkin witch hunts, with conservative “Rabbi” Moris Allen from Minnisota and his hechsher tzedek, trying to hijack and get a foothold into the kashrus industry.

          • Ari White

            I am 90% with you on this one Critic. I am also in the business and can tell you that these guys are far far from the real thing. I would not drag R’ Avi Weiss, not to be confused with Ari Weiss of Uri’l’tzedek, into this however as he in no sits on any of these boards or has involvement in any of their operations. Only a total A$$hole would be against social justice, but these guys have their own ulterior motives at work here. For a mind blowing expose check out this link from an new article last month on the TAV and their head honchos.

            http://www.shmeeze.com/new-kosher-certification-label-on-foods-to-use-al-sharpton-like-tactics-hardly-kosher/

          • A. Nuran

            It’s not a “witch hunt” when there’s a focused investigation on one serial criminal. It would be a witch hunt if the prosecutors went after all Jews in a huge fishing expedition. And it’s not a witch hunt when they hold back a few hundred charges or he has no defense against the facts that he committed over eighty felonies.

            If it takes prosecutors and decades in prison to make Jews consider thinking about not lying, defrauding, and stealing then Judaism is in a pretty pathetic state.

          • Vicki

            I’m sorry I’m too busy …but I’m sure someone else can answer the charges.
            BTW I am a FRUM Jew .

        • rob

          Heshy, If Tav Hayosher requires paying higher wages, more costly benefits, more sick leave, more investment for better working conditions, etc. then it will increase the cost of food, even if the hashgacha is at no direct charge.

          Dude, you might be a great cook, but your business and accounting acumen is questionable.

          • The point of it is exactly as getting a better business bureau badge, you get it and people may shop there more, happens to be I myself wouldn’t be more likely to patronize a business that bad a Tav or not and that probably goes the same for most folks. In certain larger markets it may matter, but for the most part the only people applying for the Tav are those who meet the requirements already.

            It’s like applying for state of NY organic over the USDA, it doesn’t make it more organic or kosher in this case. If kasharus was a concern,you’d be sure that the OU or Star K would try and jump on this band wagon.

            On the other hand, based on my experience, there are always ulterior motives – whether left or right wing folks run the show.

  • Mendy

    Tav HaYosher – sounds suspiciously like hechsher tzedeck of the Conservative Movement. I think Government and halachic regulations are enough – we don’t need more stringency in this area.

    • Tav Hayosher actually only requires you to abide by government regulations

      • A. Nuran

        Because treating people better than the absolute minimum the Law will let you get away with is too high a bar for the Orthodox. This is what happens when you grow up with a million tochis-retentive rules and no personal ethical compass.

        • This is why Baal Teshuvas who go off the derech are the most dangerous. They have moral basis and the knowledge to screw with frum folks.

        • Jeff

          Very good, AN.

          Heshy, thanks for posting this.

      • A. Nuran

        It’s obvious that menschkeit and yiddishekeit don’t have to have more than a nodding acquaintance with each other.

        • A. Nuran

          It’s best when they do, of course. One of Judaism’s proudest claims is a history of loving justice and treating people with chesed because it’s the right thing to do.

  • YEA

    If Tav Hayosher were simply about giving businesses the ability to show that they comply with U.S. law, I would support it. However, it is not about complying with the law, but rather about complying with those laws that the Tav Hayosher people like.
    For example, paying minimum wage is one of the requirements for Tav certification. I agree that all businesses should pay minimum wage, as that is U.S. law. However, many economists, most notably the late Nobel Prize winner Dr. Milton Friedman, believe that the minimum wage is a terrible policy and it is the main reason for high unemployment among teenagers, particularly black teenagers, which leads to a lack of job training and other problems. (See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rls8H6MktrA&feature=related and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ca8Z__o52sk ).
    The same goes for equal pay for equal work requirements (see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsIpQ7YguGE&feature=related )
    Hiring illegal immigrants is also against U.S. law. The Tav has nothing to say about this other than that you must treat your illegal employees like everyone else, thus giving implicit approval to illegally hiring undocumented workers. The only comments the Tav has about undocumented workers are “Minimum wage law applies to both documented and undocumented workers,” and that it is illegal “to ask or threaten to ask federal immigration authorities to conduct an immigration raid on employees attempting to advocate for their rights”. (I happen to think that both the Left and Right are wrong in their positions on illegal immigration, but that is wholly irrelevant — the law is the law. See http:youtube.com/watch?v=3eyJIbSgdSE and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfU9Fqah-f4 ).
    Finally, Uri L’tzedek the organisation behind the Tav supports things that have nothing to do with proper treatment of workers, such as rallying against hydrofracking, simply a part of an environmentalist agenda.
    This article is also an important read and questions who really is bullying whom: http://newsdesk.tjctv.com/2009/06/the-scoop-on-mikes-bistro-and-the-tav-hayosher/
    As for why Jews in particular should be most supportive of as free a market as possible, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7HMEFsmpKMc
    In summary, the main problem with the Tav is that they are all for certifying those restaurants that keep those laws of which they approve (all of which match a Left-wing agenda), but give implicit approval to violation of laws which they disapprove while supporting Left wing causes that are irrelevant to the purported purpose of their organisation. (The application to restaurants and not, say, clothing stores, is also curious).

    • Charlie Hall

      Excuse me, but the law IS that illegal immigrants have to be paid in accordance with US and Torah law.

      And I can’t see how a Jew could support immigration restrictions. Would that more Jews had been able to come to the US in 1940!

      • YEA

        1) And it is also US law that it is illegal for an employer to knowingly hire an illegal immigrant. If Tav Hayosher is really about compliance with the law, they would require participating stores to pay illegal immigrants the proper wages for work already done and then fire those immigrants if they want to retain their Tav certificate. They only require the former.
        2) As far as open immigration, I agree with you that open immigration is the best thing. However, as it stands now, the only good type of immigration is illegal immigration. Legal immigration is problematic, as we currently have people immigrating to welfare. Please watch the following two videos of Dr. Milton Friedman for an explanation of why this is so. If you don’t watch the videos, you will almost certainly misunderstand my point. (Perhaps I will create a transcript of the videos and post a link here to the transcripts later).
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3eyJIbSgdSE
        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NfU9Fqah-f4

        What we need is open immigration for anyone without a criminal record as well as serious restrictions on government assistance.

    • A. Nuran

      If someone is in the US illegally that’s a matter between him and the INS. And you, as an employer, are committing a crime by hiring him. But if you do hire him you’re committing more crimes by shorting his paycheck, demanding unpaid overtime, threatening him with deportation if he doesn’t eat that sh*t raw and subjecting him to unsafe, inhumane conditions.

      If you wouldn’t like the same thing done to you, then don’t do it to others. Even a lousy Jew like me understands that part of Torah. When you have to give an account of yourself “I only bought glatt kosher” will count for a lot less than “I oppressed the stranger who lived among me. I withheld the wages of my hired man. I lied. I cheated. I broke the law of the land I lived in to make a buck. And I did my best to stop yidden who tried to obey those commandments.”

      • com

        You mean you would like it to count for less.

  • Great Article Heshy,

    I’d like to point out that after my little brother was screwed out of minimum wage by this Restaurant … http://sangennarocafe.com/ , whic is in Brentwood Village, which if anyone knows West LA is essentially the slums of Bel-Air (very posh neighborhood) The Owner, John Handal (Jay) paid my brother 25$ per shift ( A shift consists of 5-6 sometimes 6.5 hours mind you) as many of you know Minimum (Federal) wage and CA Minimum Wage is 8.00/hour unless your in SF where its higher by city ordinance (smart) . My brother is now going through motions, and we recently won an award for 32k from his previous Slave driver/ owner of the rest. But I make it my mission to help other restaurant employees seek justice , to date I’ve helped 1/2 dozen at 4 different restaurants (high end ad not) seek their just dues (1 to the tune of 120k ( I really should be a labor advocate attorney!)

    It is disturbing how many in the FoodServices industry are getting Fucked….really disturbing,

    -Guy / LA

    • Dan

      WADR: Your brother is the parasite, not the store owner. He knowingly took a job for a certain salary, worked there and collected it, and then turns around and opportunistically sues his employer who gave him a job.

      Your brother knew what the minimum wage was, and there are plenty of employers who pay that much (Wal Mart pays more). Obviously, he either didn’t have the skills to be worth minimum wage, or this job was worth its pay cut. In either scenario, he is the one who is being opportunistic.

  • Nathan

    Why should Tav HaYosher ethical certification apply only to KOSHER food?

    Why not try to certify McDonald’s and Burger King also?

    Does Tav HaYosher believe that Gentiles do not need to follow ethics?

    Why should Tav HaYosher ethical certification apply only to food? Why not also certify automobile factories, banks, law firms, car services, labor unions, CPAs, nurses, pharmacies, real estate agents, comedians, bloggers, etc?

    • A. Nuran

      Baby steps. You have to start somewhere. Heshy is taking up a cause in the industry he works with.

      If you really want to support this across the broader economy contribute to your local Union. That’s what Jews did a century ago when they were the garment workers, the dockhands and the factory laborers. Samuel Gompers, Studs Terkel and so many others made history that way and improved the lives of everyone, Jew and Gentile

  • Chananya

    Heshy Fried, you failed to make full disclosure by revealing that you work in a kosher restaurant. Failing to make full disclosure is a violation of ethics, and should be reported to Tav HaYosher.

    • A. Nuran

      He’s fully disclosed that out the wazoo. Quit trying to be witty. You’re only halfway there.

    • Anonymous

      “Now come back to me when you know what you’re talking about, dude I’m a chef …”

    • I don’t work in a kosher restaurant, I work for a catering company.

  • deb

    Forcing employers to pay legal & illegal employees equally actually disincentivizes employing illegal immigrants. The employer takes the calculated risk of employing illegals by balancing the risk of incurring fines from the government with the benefit of having to pay lower wages. If all employees are paid equally, then there is *only* risk in employing illegal immigrants.

    • A. Nuran

      And that’s a good thing. It raises the wages for Americans. It makes sure people, legally resident and not, are treated in accordance with the law. And it keeps incentivizes foreign countries to improve their own conditions by making it harder to dump their unemployment problems on us, thereby lowering wages in both countries.

      • Dan

        It certainly raises wages for Americans if nobody hires illegals at lesser wages. But, your math doesn’t work out as far as foreign countries.

        If they export less workers here, there will be more workers there, which causes deflationary pressure on wages. Truthfully though, there is only so much stuff being produced in the world, and higher wages here causes pressure to export jobs, which causes inflationary pressure on wages there. So it works out about even, regardless of where the jobs are.

        Employment problems are caused by lack of demand for people’s services–not by foreign countries not working hard enough at their employment conditions and instead dumping it on us.

  • Vlad the Impaler

    The members of “Tav” should go screw themselves. What does it really mean to treat workers ethically, anyway.

    • A. Nuran

      For all the toireh you’ve swallowed and vomited up over the years you haven’t learned anything useful, certainly nothing that will make you a better Jew.

      Tav isn’t asking Jews to be honest, kind, compassionate, wise or fair. It seems like that’s asking too much from the shriveled little lumps of drek “Torah-true” Jews like you use for souls. They’re just asking you to unclench your claws from your wallets enough to pay workers what you owe them, obey the labor laws, make sure working conditions in one industry meet the bare legal minimum and not work people to death in crowded, filthy, unsafe places.

      I understand that you don’t have any ethics or morals of your own. Your entire life has been spent memorizing intricate legal arguments and looking for loopholes while you pat yourselves on the back for being the Master Race. But some Jews rise above that and believe in frivolous things like honesty, justice and treating others like you would want to be treated. Maybe when you grow up and acquire neshama like a Masorti or Reform Jew you will understand these things.

  • Vicki

    Heshy- I’m proud of you. Way to say it!
    Guess what Jonah is doing over his summer break? In NYC. And he is as “FRUM” & Orthodox as they come. GO TAV!!!

  • Ari White

    All I can say is that there is an awful lot of duplicity happening with the TAV. I was contacted by a “potential client” who said she would only use us for her wedding if we were under the TAV. The following week I happened to get a cold call from them asking me join. Their entire tactics are unethical, and yet they are supposed to be this ethical seal. If you want a shocking example of their behavior and twisted interpretation of honesty ..check out this link… newsdesk.tjctv.com/2009/06/the-scoop-on-mikes-bistro-and-the-tav-hayosher/

  • Dan

    The notion that paying less than the legal minimum wage is somehow more unethical than any other lawbreaking, is retarded.

    What is it about the arbitrary amount chosen by your state’s. Corrupt legislature that somehow makes that the “moral” amount?

    And if the alternative is to hire less workers, why is that alternative more moral than this one.

    The whole thing is just one big pretext for people with guilt about their judaism to pretend they are more moral than us. Which is precisely why leftist jrws continue to demonize rubashkin with charges that have been debunked.

    • He didn’t commit major bank fraud?

      • Dan

        He committed a relatively minor bank fraud, since at all times his assets were more than his debt, and he would not have defaulted but for the feds preventing the sale. He certainly seems to have lied, and that is very wrong-but it is not the same as stealing.

        We can dicker about that bank fraud, but this much is true: He didn’t abuse his workers; he didn’t purposely hire illegals, and had even protocols in place to make sure he didn’t ; he didn’t abuse animals (they were dead when they were flapping).

        Was he bad for lying? Probably. But not nearly as bad as people on this site like to make it out to be.

      • Dan

        He committed a relatively minor bank fraud, since at all times his assets were more than his debt, and he would not have defaulted but for the feds preventing the sale. He certainly seems to have lied, and that is very wrong-but it is not the same as stealing.

        We can bicker about that bank fraud, but this much is true: He didn’t abuse his workers; he didn’t purposely hire illegals, and had even protocols in place to make sure he didn’t ; he didn’t abuse animals (they were dead when they were flapping).

        Was he bad for lying? Probably. But not nearly as bad as people on this site like to make it out to be.

        • A. Nuran

          It wasn’t “relatively minor bank fraud”. It was a major crime for which the Federal sentencing guidelines recommend 25-30 years PER COUNT. The judge would have had to come up with some serious mitigating factors to reduce the sentence. But he perjured himself. He lied to the investigators. He hid assets. He refused to make restitution. He showed no remorse. And he tried to turn it into a political circus smearing the judge as an anti-Semite.

          To get the recommended penalty for just one of those counts shows greater forbearance than he deserved.

          • Dan

            1. Mitigating factors? You mean like the fact that it really was a victimless crime but for the governments inexplicably killing the sale and letting the assets waste.

            2. I don’t really fault people for trying to cover up their crimes.

            • A. Nuran

              Maybe you don’t fault people for lying, cheating, stealing and stonewalling once they’ve been convicted. But the Law does. If you want mercy don’t perjure yourself. Don’t refuse to make restitution. Don’t compound your crimes.

              And there were no mitigating factors. He committed fraud which cost his victims and lenders money. He knew what he was doing and kept doing it. The judge cut him exactly as much slack as the Law suggests. But he has a bobbed shmekele and a beard. To the frum that means he should be immune to the consequences of his actions. Us aporikosim believe in one Law for everyone, no special privileges based on religion.

              • Dan

                The idea that I am defending him because he is frum is ridiculous, and you know it.

                The proof is that there are plenty of beards in the Federal kollel at Otisville, and you won’t find me defending them at all. You won’t find parlor meetings to raise funds for them; the Yated won’t run stories; Nate Lewin won’t take their case; 50 AG’s won’t sign letters.

                You know why? Because this really was different.

                And the fact that you pretend that isn’t so, makes you look like a moron. But I understand it–it’s just as I said before. It gives you permission to think that you are really the moral and good ones, and not those awful religious people.

                But, as the navi says: omru acheichem soneicham menadeichem “l’maan shmi yichbad Hashem”- v’nireh bsimchaschem v’heim yevoshu.
                Isaiah 66:5.

              • Dan

                The idea that I am defending him because he is frum is ridiculous, and you know it.

                The proof is that there are plenty of beards in the Federal kollel at Otisville, and you won’t find me defending them at all. You won’t find parlor meetings to raise funds for them; the Yated won’t run stories; Nate Lewin won’t take their case; 50 AG’s won’t sign letters.

                You know why? Because this really was different.

                And the fact that you pretend that isn’t so, makes you look ridiculous. But I understand it–it’s just as I said before. It gives you permission to think that you are really the moral and good ones, and not those awful religious people.

                But, as the navi says: omru acheichem soneicham menadeichem “l’maan shmi yichbad Hashem”- v’nireh bsimchaschem v’heim yevoshu.
                Isaiah 66:5.

              • Dan

                The idea that I am defending him because he is frum is ridiculous, and you know it.

                The proof is that there are plenty of beards in prison for fraud, and you won’t find me defending them at all. You won’t find parlor meetings to raise funds for them; the Yated won’t run stories; Nate Lewin won’t take their case; 50 AG’s won’t sign letters.

                You know why? Because this really was different.

                And the fact that you pretend that isn’t so, makes you look ridiculous. But I understand it–it’s just as I said before. It gives you permission to think that you are really the moral and good ones, and not those awful religious people.

                But, as the navi says: omru acheichem soneicham menadeichem “l’maan shmi yichbad Hashem”- v’nireh bsimchaschem v’heim yevoshu.
                Isaiah 66:5.

              • Dan

                The idea that I am defending him because he is frum is ridiculous, and you know it.

                The proof is that there are plenty of beards in prison for fraud, and you won’t find me defending them at all. You won’t find parlor meetings to raise funds for them; the Yated won’t run stories; Nate Lewin won’t take their case; 50 AG’s won’t sign letters.

                You know why? Because this really was different.

                And the fact that you pretend that isn’t so, makes you look ridiculous. But I understand it–it’s just as I said before. It gives you permission to think that you are really the moral and good ones, and not those awful religious people.

                But, as the navi says: omru acheichem soneicham menadeichem “l’maan shmi yichbad Hashem”- v’nireh bsimchaschem v’heim yevoshu. Isaiah 66:5.

                • A. Nuran

                  Be honest, no matter how much it hurts.
                  If he weren’t a Jew you wouldn’t care.

                  • Dan

                    Agreed. Of course. Doesn’t hurt at all; I’m proud to care about my own.

                    But, you also be honest. There are tons of frum crooks, and I don’t go out of my way to defend them or donate to them. Because this is different.

                  • Tom

                    For real fact about Sholom Rubashkin:

                    http://www.yated.com/main.asp?maincatid=12&categoryid=12

                  • Dan

                    Agreed. Of course. And it doesn’t hurt a bit to say it.

                    If he wasn’t Jewish, I would have read the news story and turned to the next page.

                    How about you be a bit honest now. If he weren’t frum and you were presented with this story, you’d be astounded at the government’s treatment of him.

                    • Dan

                      But, as it happens, he is jewish, and so I do care.

                      And Nuran, I would also care if it was you. Really, I would.

    • A. Nuran

      “Since we can’t end all crime and sin we’ll give everyone a pass on anything they’ve done wrong.”

      What a pile of self-serving dishonest rot.

  • Critic

    If what is stated here http://www.shmeeze.com/new-kosher-certification-label-on-foods-to-use-al-sharpton-like-tactics-hardly-kosher/ is true then some apologies should be forthcoming.

    • Vicki

      It is not all true. I’m sure Heshy can speak to it.

      • Critic

        If you know it to be “not all true” why wait for Heshy to “speak to it”? Please,by all means,let us know which part is true and which part isn’t or let Heshy himself do so. If the allegations made are contrived,as you seem to imply,then I would say that it’s incumbent upon you to educate us as to the truth.Saying it’s “not all true” doesn’t make it so.

  • Yosef

    Kosher food is already too expensive; Tav Hayosher will make the prices even higher. Also, any kosher establishment not affilliated with Tav Hayosher will be unfairly stigmatized as unethical.

    • Vicki

      Tav is Free ..they don’t charge for the service. & the establishment may get more people ..so it is a Win win.

  • Reuvain

    If anyone is the bully its the so called Tav. They declared a boycott against Rubashkin without every checking out the plant firsthand. They acted unethically.

  • Joe

    Uncovering The Truth of “Tav HaYosher”:
    http://EyeOnTheTav.com/

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