Chances are pretty good that if you’re reading this blog you’ve seen some of the frum intimate forums at Calm Kallahs. Chances are that you laughed and didn’t think much of the fact that in this day and age there were married women that didn’t know sex was supposed to be pleasurable. I have heard many stories of both men and women fainting when they found out about how babies were actually made, what did they think Hashem sent a stork or something? I have searched far and wide for a frummy publication to even mention the word sex and lo and behold I don’t think they exist. Read any of the marriage guides and they talk about communication, hashkafa and even more words of Torah wisdom, but nothing to do with the nasty.
Fact is, frummies never talk about sex. It seems the only time they talk about it, is behind closed doors in kallah classes or when you need to show the rabbi your soiled underwear (which usually winds up in a vending machine in Thailand) to know whether or not you pooped your pants or bled in them. For God’s sake if this is reason enough to validate the need for Yoetzet Halacha, I’m not sure what is. Now don’t even get me started on kallah classes, just like the kashrus industry, you need to find out the facts for yourself it seems – because there’s a lot of varying practices and minhagim when it comes to that special time of month for the ladies. It also seems that there are a lot of varying practices for the sex as well. Some telling me that their rabbis told them anything goes because it’s for shalom bayis, to the “we only have sex naked in the dark in her bed – missionary style (do we call it kiruv style, since missionary position is in reference to Nuns?)
It just seems to me that it’s high time for the Artscroll propaghanda machine to publish some sort of sex guide for frummies. We should also take into consideration that frum men (many frum women too) have so much access to free unrestricted hardcore porn that they may think all sex is supposed to be like they show in the porn films (I myself have never seen a naked person other than the dudes running around the Castor, but I’m sure porn can get pretty off balance in terms of the ways normal “amuetur” people have sex) Everyone is denying it, but porn has entered frum homes and it’s here to stay, in fact I would say that shabbos has kept the print porn industry alive, who else would buy a porn mag? A recent article in the Jewish Journal explains the phenomina of men thinking sex is supposed to be like porn, if this is the case, frum men probably know and expect a lot more than women when they enter the bedroom (or the kitchen, or the playroom, or the car, or the bathroom, or the garage or anywhere else besides her bed with the lights off)
Of course I know that no self respecting frum person would ever be able to write frankly about sex, even the beloved Dr. Twerski has boundaries and Rav Shmuely’s work is not exactly considered frum by any standards, but there has got to be some way around these frum publishing houses which refuse to even write words which could be converted to sex. There must be some tznius way to do it, maybe they could keep it behind the counter at seforim stores with black plastic covers hiding the books so that only married people or people who can prove that they’re engaged can buy. Maybe you would have to get a letter from your mother…then again that leads to busha and we don’t want to compound the sins already garnered from reading such an untznius topic.
I’m pretty sure that dudes who can masturbate to JC Penny underwear ads and entertainment weekly could probably blow a few loads to a guide book about sex for the frum community. I’m not even sure how such a book could be written if every chossen and kallah class teacher tells their students something different. Maybe it should explain anatomy and the science of sex. It could talk about different positions and what the opinions are of each, like the famous Rav Moshe heter for doggy style, because of the backbreaking work many of the textile mills people did and how lying on their backs during missionary position may render them parnassah-less. It may help to mention the shulchan aruch’s ban on men kissing the makom ervah of a woman does not apply nowadays because it’s become the minhag of the land to do such things – even though I have heard rumors of men who selfishly receive but refuse to give.
I’ll you the truth, up until I was 12 I had no idea how sex worked, I honestly thought that you peed into the butt of a girl. I know it sounds foolish, but I’m sure that there are some folks who marry and think the same thing. I recently asked someone if sex was really that important for a good marriage and they told me that it was 50% of the marriage – I honestly have no idea how you could quantify it, but it seems to rank pretty high on already married people’s lists. Single people don’t have sex, so how are they to know?
It comes down to this, like it or not – sex is part of our lives. At some point in our lives we will all have it, it may be with our wives, partners, rabbis or rebetzins or local bishop, but it’s something that is so taboo in the frum community that no one really has a frum source in which to learn about it. So, anyone seeking information about sex is likely to go to another source like porn and do we really want our bas yisroels and ben toirahs learning about this holy act from porn downloads. I can imagine that if frum society was more open to teaching about sex, there would be better marriages and more female orgasms. Then again, learning about sex from porn, may be a whole lot better than learning it from some glossed over book by Feldheim or Artscroll that’s about sex without mentioning the word sex.
Learn more about sexual halacha on 4torah.com
{ 77 comments… read them below or add one }
Didn’t some MO lady publish a book about it like this year?
So write a book.
“I have heard rumors of men who selfishly receive but refuse to give.” It’s horrible and totally BS if you ask me. I know, I know its halacha or whatever – call me feminist but its just not fair.
They also ‘aren’t allowed’ to groom there either bc that’s what women do so its even worse for the giving.
Poor girls.
Some also say that you can’t even LOOK at her mekom ‘erva. It’s one thing if you can’t even hold hands before marriage, but if a husband and wife can’t see each other naked, f- that ___.
Men are allowed to groom any area of their bodies which in the society they live it is common for men to groom those areas.
As for receiving but not giving – I am assuming Heshy meant that as satire, not like there’s a halakha that officially says that.
That’s not satire, that’s reality in all walks of life.
It is still not common for men to shave or heavily groom that area so it still remains ‘assur’. And yes, it is also not allowed for men to give – it IS reality and totally not fair.
No sorry, most men groom that area because most women won’t give a guy head if he doesn’t. I don’t want your phucking pube hairs in my mouth.
The HAIRS she doesn’t want, but…
I wasn’t saying what the norm is. Frankly, I don’t know. All I was saying was that it depends on the norm. As for there being a difference between men and women regarding who is allowed to give – source please???
I am sure there is a heter for shaving doing there.
This is the book you’re looking for, or at least as close as the community has gotten so far. All the “naughty” pictures are in an envelope at the back that you can just tear out if you don’t want to look at anatomy pictures.
http://www.amazon.com/Newlywed-Guide-Physical-Intimacy/dp/9652295353
Of course, it’s had a hard time being published and an even harder time being publicized, so…check it out, if you’re interested.
“kiruv style”. :::beavis and butthead laugh:::
?? ????? -The Newlywed Guide to Physical Intimacy
http://www.amazon.com/Newlywed-Guide-Physical-Intimacy/dp/9652295353
?? ????? -The Newlywed Guide to Physical Intimacy
http://www.amazon.com/Newlywed-Guide-Physical-Intimacy/dp/9652295353
Theres only so much you can learn from a book. There should be live demonstrations (theres a gemara like that actually).
I highly doubt that there is a gemara like that.
Also, by the way, there is a book especially written for the Orthodox community that just came out (though I haven’t seen any stores in Brooklyn who sell it).
http://www.amazon.com/Newlywed-Guide-Physical-Intimacy/dp/9652295353/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1330569004&sr=1-1
Isn’t there one where the guy snuck into his rabbi’s bedroom to see how he had sex?
Doubt he enjoyed it very much.
Heshy – you should have write a remember when on this.
“Remember when Porn was not mukzah”
“but I’m sure that there are some folks who marry and think the same thing”
You are 100% right. I know firsthand of stories of frum girls, at 19 years old who were mortified when they learned what the first night (and beyond) entailed.
I think that frum psychologists and sex therapists (and by the way, there ARE frum sex therapists) are a fantastic resource.
Unfortunately, until Rabbis endorse any discussion of the issue, or a particular source to get information, frum people will likely keep sweeping it under the rug. And Rabbis are very unlikely to touch the issue with a hundred-and-fifty amah arc beam, even to say (publicly) that the masses can/should be educated by therapists, books or other resources.
The current right-wing push is to maintain the privacy of sexuality. Sure, there are frum couples (in extreme cases) that are individually referred to therapists or sex therapists. But there’s no mass-distributed information or resource.
One of my die hard atheist friends’ parents are frum sex therapists.
Frummies never say “sex”. It’s “relations”. I think someone should take popular songs with “sex”, “sexy”, and “sexual” in them and change them to “relations”, “relationy”, and “relational”.
Here’s that book – not exactly a manual, but fairly candid and informative for those who need to know but don’t:
http://www.amazon.com/Newlywed-Guide-Physical-Intimacy/dp/9652295353/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpt_1
Actually, I heard that Fartscroll is preparing material for a halachic manual on oral sex that doesn’t even once mentioning the word ‘sex!’ Instead, the title of the publication will be , The Fartscroll Guide to the Oral Law.
Apparently, it justifies the preferential treatment accorded the male ‘receiver’ on the grounds that metzitzah b’peh is a big mitzvah.
Also, it seems to imply that all authorities would agree that going down on a broad past the age of 30 would in any event be impermissible for reasons relating to yoshon.
Wouldn’t the prohibition eating chazzar would prevent a woman going down on certain men such as yourself?
Signed,
a woman who is about to turn 30
rim shot!
Actually, I heard that Fartscroll is preparing material for a halachic manual on oral sex that doesn’t even once mentioning the word ‘sex!’ Instead, the title of the publication will be , The Fartscroll Guide to the Oral Law.
Apparently, it justifies the preferential treatment accorded the male ‘receiver’ on the grounds that metzitzah b’peh is a big mitzvah.
Also, it seems to imply that all authorities would agree that going down on a broad past the age of 30 would in any event be impermissible for reasons relating to yoshon.
I just have a feeling that the guide would be bombarded with Chumrot.
Of course it will. It can’t actually talk about the mechanics, name parts, have diagrams, describe arousal, or anything else that kids getting married need to know. Any rabbi who approves of it will be lambasted by the more-repressed-than-thou. Any rabbi who forbids it or demands more restrictions before he’ll permit it gets props for being shtark. The publisher will be boycotted no matter what goes in.
So it will be the strictest, craziest, most juiceless bit of work you’ve ever seen with every vestige of joy surgically removed and replaced with prayers, admonitions and every restriction any ascetic with a long beard and smicha ever came up with.
There is this sex position guide that uses crash test dummies to show the moves, I just never thought there could be 1001 sex positions. They also have the same guide with the added hilarity of all sex moves with some sort of excretion like crap and piss – it’s so gross it makes you laugh out loud.
You should read the reviews of the book (a bunch of people posted links to its page on Amazon). It didn’t sound like that at all.
A new book just came out that this written by Dr. David Ribner and Dr. Jennie Rosenfeld, both sex therapists in Israel. Dr. Ribner also trains sex therapists and was talking about sex way before the frum community was ready to. The Newlywed Guide to Physical Intimacy- http://www.amazon.com/David-S.-Ribner/e/B0058OBB7O
The book even includes a sealed envelope with sketches of his and hers genitilia, for readers who are unfamiliar with that county. The book is acceptable for the Orthodox to even charedi population and is a really helpful tool for people who are too embarassed to ask questions.
As for the question about how important sex is in the marriage, I think it’s important to remember that like many things in life, it’s probably not going to be perfect (especially in the beginning, regardless of personal experience) and variety isn’t such a bad thing.
Reviews by serious sex professionals still consider this book to be a joke out of the 1950s, but I suppose it’s better than nothing.
http://www.amazon.com/Newlywed-Guide-Physical-Intimacy/dp/9652295353
My friend told me that when he asked his wife for a BJ, she said “are you crazy? thats where u pee from!” From a BY girl no less. No wonder they say to find a shiksa for sex and a Jewish girl for marriage. The old adage applies, : They don’t tell, they don’t swell, and they’re grateful as hell.
LOL
The extreme prudishness of the frum community is what I find most off putting about their version of things. Do naked elbows really turn anybody on?
Anything can become a turn on if you can convince the entire population of its sexiness.
There are plenty of good ones out there. Why pay twice the price – and you know it will cost at least that – for a second rate one with a hesher?
You know the “kosher” version will be full of chumrot and worked like heck so that every bit of juice and excitement will be squeezed out of it. The explicit advice and, heaven forfend, diagrams that are useful for beginners will all be removed and replaced with pidgin Hebrew, vague references to “down there” and a whole list of prohibitions. Then it will be banned because it’s untznius and talks about things that shouldn’t be mentioned. The author will be put in cherem. Sales will plummet. The book will be withdrawn.
And people will complain that there just aren’t any good books on the subject.
Our Bodies, Ourselves, She Comes First, The Guide to Getting It On and the works of Jack Morin, Kidder Kapper, Susie Bright, Dr. Ruth, Alex Comfort and dozens of others are already out there.
Secular books on this sort of thing are better . They’re not hobbled by tiptoeing through the minefield of mullahs, rabbis, priests and witch-doctors. The good ones give honest, accurate information without tiptoeing through a minefield. You may have to actually use your brain and determine what pieces of their advice square with your religious practices, but if you’re grown up enough to get married and have children you should be enough of an adult to do that.
What happens if the rabbi mentions “down there” to someone with a foot fetish?
“Ummm, put the hardest part of yourself where your wife makes water”
A few hours later…
Firefighter: “Chief, we just had to pull a man’s head out of a hotel room toilet”
“passionate marriage” by david schnarch
Did you mention Susie Bright bc of those woman on woman fantasies of yours? She’s a bit racy. Nudge nudge, wink wink. If one read the stuff she writes, one might be reading the stuff written in the next chapter or two. Then we might have to start explaining bondage and SM to these poor unsuspecting bochurim and bais yankev girls.
I’ve liked a lot of what she writes from the absolutely classic essay Egg S*x – which a midwife friend pushes on all her pregnant women – to her recipe for cherry pie. Yeah, some of it is radical and racy. But there’s a lot of blunt, matter-of-fact good stuff there.
And as for BDSM, well, Jews have that kink just like everyone else. If they do it’s better to understand what is going on, what it means and how to live with it. Demystification is a healthy thing. Her constant message of Own Your Own Desire is a very healthy one.
I’ve been thinking that Nuran must be a very considerate partner in the sack.
By frog standards. I croak loudly so the lady frogs can find me. I choose bits of pond with gravel on the bottom and lots of duckweed. And I never EVER drown my partners.
Amphibian nookie is kind of basic, but we like it.
I’ve been thinking, that you suck in the sack! And I don’t mean literally!!
Run … don’t walk … to your Artscroll Talmud Vol. 29 (Nedarim I) pg. 20a-3 to pg. 20b-4.
Find out what is meant by “I laid the table for my husband but he turned it over.”
Find out if it is permissible to “turn over the table.”
Find out if it is “preferable” be naked while having sex.
Find out why she should reach orgasm first.
The money quote: “Whatever a man wants to do with his wife, he may do … provided that she is willing”.
All this and much much more can be found in Artscroll Talmud Nedarim I now available at your local Judaica store.
I have seen in a few books on family purity have a chapter or so talking about “marital intimacy”… Vaguely… I read one that if I remember correctly was based on Aish lectures so that tells you pretty much all you need to know about that… Only under total darkness, because only animals would do anything else… Etc. etc.
Maybe we wouldn’t need any of this if parents would take some responsibility to educate their children on a few things… Maybe they would even be more comfortable later in life talking to their Rav about it! Sounds like a horrible idea.
I’m waiting for some openly gay Orthodox rabbi (Steve Greenberg?) to come out with a book on Kosher Gay Sex. Admittedly, it would be a VERY short book.
Yisroel http://www.kosherunicorn.com
Anything but anal penetration.
Not really a “sex guide” but check out the book titled Marital Intimacy. It has a chapter dealing with the requirement of onah. http://www.amazon.com/Marital-Intimacy-Avraham-Peretz-Friedman/dp/0976196603/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1330569193&sr=8-2
>Secular books on this sort of thing are better .
Probably. But it may be worth looking at the Kama Sutra if you need religious inspiration.
The solution is to get yourself a chassan (or kallah teacher) who will tell you exactly as it is. They can be just as good, if not better than, a book. I personally went to a phenomenal Chassan teacher (who is Mashgiach in a well known yeshiva and has a long white beard, black hat, and long coat). He made me blush with the way he spoke. No holds barred. Said it like it is.
Heshy, for some reason I feel your site will become even more entertaining once you are married!
It opens up a lot of discussion, but there is still a lot of things I won’t talk about.
And when sex is taboo even among a husband and wife, I am not surprised that there will be people out there who feel more comfortable testing out there latest fantasies by hooking up with a stranger on CraigsList instead of their own spouse.
You mean we won’t hear about you getting chewed out for leaving your dirty clothes lying around? What fun is that?
Many readers may lump this article in with some of your satirical commentary, but you’re really on target with this one.
Check out r’ Yaakov Emden’s Siddur under friday night. Also the Rambam has a halachac guide. I’m pretty sure according to the Rambam anything goes so long as it’s not zera l’vatalla.
Good thing your kalla is Chabad, they are one of the only groups to hold of the Rambam.
I thought that was what married friends were for.
I gave extremely explicit and detailed explanations and advice to my engaged friends.
While I’m not FFB and had some knowledge about sex before I became observant, I have since then heard a few recorded shiurim that were quite explicit about the matter. So giving the religious community the benefit of the doubt, I’d say that maybe people are not comfortable discussing publicly something they consider to be so intimate, but rather have decided to deal with it behind the scenes-out of tzniut considerations. But then again, that might be giving them too much credit because it’s not like anyone ever directed me to these shiurim, I happened to come across them at another blog I follow. There really needs to be a more systematic method of dealing with sex education in the frum world, too many people take it for granted and too many people probably suffer from it.
i saw the ‘newlywed guide’ at the YU Sephorim Sale in the heights…..it’s there
Yeah, so I think I’ll be starting a new dating site, for patrilineal
descent Jews (and people who want to date them):
ididntseeyouatsinai.com
What’s the sex-ed situation like in the modern orthodox world?
It’s pretty bad, I went to MO school & we had 1/2 hr class in 10th grade. I had to learn via Google.
I don’t know how on-topic this is, but one of the first things I noticed as a BT is how the “Hilchos Bas Yisroel” book is always hidden off in some corner on everyone’s bookshelf.
Perry Reich is available to model
Check you shulchan aruch. Even haezer siman 25.
Enjoy!
There are several reasons why a sex guide for Orthodox married couples hasn’t been published for many reasons. Sex is a very touchy subject that should be handled in a delicate sensitive matter. Most people may joke about it or read about it but will seldom talk about it. What goes on in the bedroom should stay there. Everyone is different and people have positions that work for them. As mentioned before, people assume it happens naturally but I beg to differ. Even those with raging hormones have difficulties channeling their energy. A guideline would be helpful but people have their own preferences and fetishes that makes them tick. Sexual disorders do exist and most people would recommend a sex therapist since most chassan/kallah teachers are either not educated or equipped to deal with serious matters like these.I wasn’t given sex tips for my wedding night and that’s why it never happened. However, I do feel its necessary for married couples to receive wholesome viable tips to enhance their sexual intimacy. I don’t think its anyone’s business to give unsolicited advise. Do whatever floats your boat.
I agree with you somewhat. Details should be handled delicately & privately, but I think there needs to more basic sex education in orthodox educational system, since otherwise & unfortunately people will learn thru internet and will get them in trouble.
People will learn on the internet anyway.
I am not a prude – sex is *great*.
But it *should* be something beautiful and spiritual, not just a mechanical coupling. Mutual mystery and discovery are priceless.
In that sense, there is no real “how to”. The key “how to” tip is the same of that around any deep relationship: interact with your partner as much as possible in order to achieve mutual satisfaction.
Truth that… but some guidance would not hurt either.
B”H
When orthodox Jews have sexual relations, eat food, drink wine, or do anything that entails physical pleasure, that entails the physical world, they are supposed to be thinking words of Torah, and thinking about fulfilling HaShem’s commands. They are supposed to elevate primal, animalistic physical pleasures, and transform them into the spiritual act of serving God. When an orthodox Jew has sexual relations he should have them LeShem Shamyem, for the sake of Heaven, not for personal pleasure.
HaShem wants you to sacrifice your animal desires.
Since the applicable Mitzvoh here is Prue Urvue, Orthodox Jews should be thinking about fulfilling this mitzvah. If you perform sex with this sole purpose in mind, then you don’t have a need to have anyone tell you how you should perform sex.
An Orthodox Jew (male or female) who just cares about following the Torah and God’s will would not engage in oral sex, since it does not lead to the Mitzvah of Pru Urvue, and since Orthodox Jews have an obligation to keep their mouths holy, since the primary purpose of the mouth is to pray to HaShem, and study Torah. When you use your mouth to satisfy your sexual pleasures, you lower it.
Suppose a man offered a King all kinds of precious diamonds and gems, but offered the King his gift inside a used condom. How might he expect the King to respond. The words you utter in prayer are diamonds and gems. If they come from a mouth that regularly serves as a condom, the gift is more of an insult than a gift.
There are two ways to earn God’s love, obtain Olem Ha’Bah, and bring the Moshiach. You can live a righteous life, and scrupulosity follow all God’s mitzvohs. If you do this, God will love you and reward you like a King loves and rewards his most loyal subject.
Or you can love other Jews as you love yourself, offer other Jews unconditional love, and radiate infinite kindness, mercy, and forgiveness. This is why Hillel taught, “Loving your fellow Jew as yourself is the whole Torah.”
How many commands in the Torah seem to concern themselves with acting kind to all creations (all sentient living things), especially your fellow Jew?
The Talmud teaches us, “measure for measure,” by the same measure we judge others, HaShem will judge us. When judgment day arrives, HaShem will ask you to judge someone like yourself, only you will not recognize that person as yourself. Whatever you honestly believe that person deserves will be your share in the world to come.
If you were merciful, forgiving, kind, slow-to-anger, beneficent to other Jews, you will elicit these Godly attributes. If you always forgave your fellow Jew, if you always showed your fellow Jew gratuitous, unconditional love, and humbly pray to HaShem to forgive your transgressions, you can be sure He will forgive your transgressions, like a father forgives the transgressions of his son.
The only transgressions HaShem can’t forgive are the transgressions against your fellow man. You need the forgiveness of your fellow man for that.
It is important to learn Torah, to sincerely pray to God, and to follow His commandments. But the main thing is deed, is doing acts of kindness, in actual gratuitous, unconditional love of your fellow Jew though doing kind deeds.
HaShem sought to reveal Himself in a garbage landfill, in a world so low, no world could possibly be lower or darker than it. From the greatest darkness which is double and quadruplely dark will come the greatest light. Only in a dark place can the divine presence, the scheenah, show itself. HaShem will transform this world into his garden. Jews who elicit HaShem’s kindness will be loved by Him like a brother loves his sister, and a husband loves his bride.
I have just given you the key to the world to come, to God’s heart, to bring the Moshiach speedily in our days, mamish.
The Talmud teaches that a teacher lives forever in his students. As long as the students of the Rebbe are alive, he is alive.
You become one with HaShem by following his will, by following his commandments. If you become one with HaShem, you cannot die.
A. Moose