I remember way back in the mid 90′s when the frum community started to awaken to the fact that high school aged kids were leaving the path in droves. At first everyone denied it was happening, but slowly parents admitted to their wayward children and things started to happen. Camps and yeshivas appeared on the scene and at some point frum rehab programs for frum boys and girls suddenly made themselves known, but the off the derech crisis is one of those things that people know think they know how to deal with – premarital sex in the age of the shidduch crisis is not something which could be dealt with, because sex rules and isn’t physically damaging like drugs or alcohol, fact is, sex is good for you. Then again Fox News never talked about the off the derech crisis.
For the record, I think the article was fiction, virgins don’t write like that and who rents a nice hotel room to lose their virginity anymore? That sounds so 1960′s…I myself did the deed in the back seat of my 92 Toyota and according to most of my frum friends, losing your virginity is not planned, it just kind of happens.
So why is premarital sex such a big deal? Loshon Horah, cheating on your taxes and disrespecting your father and elders are much worse than premarital sex which according to my Rav is a much more complicated issue than they told you in yeshiva. Well, sex is one of those things which the frum community has yet to confront, heck, they still don’t want to admit that it’s possible for an outstanding Rebbe like Kolko to have been a sexual offender. How will the frum community deal with the fact that after a certain age in shidduchim, both girls and guys will probably have some sort of sexual activity.
The frum community doesn’t want to acknowledge that their youth are having sex and so that’s why the YU Beacon Article was such a big deal. Even though it’s from a modern orthodox institution, it is still considered orthodox and orthodox boys and girls don’t have sex or at least don’t admit it publicly. It struck a raw nerve and YU and the OU couldn’t deal with it, because it makes their institutions look faulty.
Find out more about Yeshiva University Sex on 4torah.com
{ 35 comments… read them below or add one }
If any girls reading this want to have something to write about in their school newspaper, I can help them out. I won’t even call you a crisis.
I think people were also so bothered because it struck a note too close to home. Sex is seen as strictly forbidden, but once people “Come out” about this thing that everyone wants to do and it no longer seems so uncommon, people will start doing it even more. Perhaps many people were so perturbed because the article made them realize that they want to be just like those people on some level, even though I’m sure they would never admit it, even to themselves.
It is assur according to Halacha. What about Mikva?
Just because some people are engaging in that kind of conduct doesn’t mean most people are. I don’t see why they thought that was appropriate to publish in the first place.
In my school’s newspaper (which lost its affiliation with the school years ago for an unrelated reason) there are lots of trashy stories written all the time. Although this story was much more tame than some of the stuff you see in the newspapers of public schools, I still expect higher standards from Yeshiva University.
The editor and/or editorial board probably reasoned that the article is simply stating in public what a significant amount of people are routinely stating in private. If Menachem and Fraidy down the block hadn’t already realized this before reading the article, they probably don’t have enough game to get laid anyway.
Blitzkrieg mit dem Fleischgewehr!
I had sex when I was 15 ! It was so awesome, it made me wanna keep doing it. And btw, I’m not in YU! I’m in a regular black hat yeshiva. If u don’t belive these thigs happen, u got another thing comin.
You can’t spell.
Yeshiva educations seem to have that effect on people. On the other hand, he can likely spell in Hebrew.
He can’t spell, but hopefully he can read the instructions on a condom wrapper
Condom? What’s that??
(For the record, this appears to be someone else with the same name. Not an uncommon name, but not me)
Signed, The Usual Dave Who Has Been Over In The Rubashkin Thread
Sigh. If you’re going to mis-spell/trip over your fingers, at least make it interesting enough to send over to autocorrect-fail…
Ah, the perils of not having a real username.
Signed,
A Dan who sometimes posts, usually lambasts posters such as Nuran and U Avi, and likes to retain plausible deniability.
How many Yeshiva guys do it who are not YU? How did you get the girl to agree?
Sure, guys enjoy empty sex.
But girls often get hurt.
Sure, guys enjoy empty sex.
But girls often get hurt.
It’s a crisis only because rabbis are afraid to address sexual topics in many yeshivos. Yeshivas acknowledge that guys and girls are talking, but are naive that its not getting farther than that. I understand the reason why such issues aren’t being discussed. When Rabbis were younger hooking up with random people for no reason was still somewhat taboo. It’s different today, here’s a thought two of our presidents are bastard children, but they’re democrat so the it’s o.k.
1) The article was clearly fiction. It wasn’t plausible and only prudish FFBs could possibly think it was true.
2) People don’t like the idea of frum kids having intercourse… which is unfortunate because it leads to unwanted pregnancy, forced marriages and divorce.
3) The article was an example of emotional turmoil (though poorly written) not a glorification of the sex act. That made it especially silly.
4) I wish it would have been written realistically, with the fumbles and the awkwardness and all of a first time
Agreed 100%. It went from reading like a Dear Penthouse Letters submission to oops, what have I done. Nobody goes into painstaking detail about getting all sexed up before the guy arrives then flips the story into a cautionary tale. Dumb.
“Find out more about Yeshiva University Sex on 4torah.com” <–had me laughing out loud! I really need to read this Beacon article.
You did it in the backseat of a 92 Toyota???
Oh, who hasn’t done it in the back of a Toyota?
Well that’s where I lost my virginity – while dream theater was playing on the stereo, I’ve had plenty of cars since then and almost all of them have had some halachos broken and middos tampered with in them.
So that’s what “Life in a Norther Town” was about. Getting laid in the backseat of a foreign car in Rochester near the remains of a shuttered Kodak factory where the American dream died.
Tinok,
The big old 70′s and 80′s GM’s had a lot more room in the backseat
.
Hesh seems a bit too tall to get horizontal in a 92 Toyota (unless it was a pickup truck).
I preferred the cars with fromt bench seats.. only did that one once though…
Sarge,
Yeah, I had a 70′s Impala with the front beanch seat, steering wheel got in the way, it had no tilt. Extra loud horn too…
They should make a special al-cheit for hanky panky in motor vehicles.
Just read the Beacon article. BIG key that it’s BS: She refers to “the front door” of a hotel room. Hotel rooms don’t have front doors. They just have doors. I can’t for the life of me imagine why YU got into such a tizzy about this. She makes it clear that she regrets it. If anything, it’s a morality tale, as in, “Here’s why you shouldn’t do what I did.” I see your point, Hesh, about it striking a nerve, but I can’t imagine how they could have their collective heads buried that deeply in the sand.
This is the typical pattern at YU:
They shoot themselves in the foot by making a big deal out some issue by reflexively overeating to something they could have easily just ignored.
And, in the end it will backfire because now it’s being discussed openly across the university.
The key to understanding why YU reacts this way is to realize that nearly every top YU administrator goes to shul on shabbos and spends the kiddush listening to complaints: Why did they do this; why don’t they do that; why isn’t my granddaughter married yet? This conditions them to have a knee-jerk response to any issue that they know they will be dreikupped about come shabbos.
Heshy or anyone else,
Any advice to getting orthodox, particularly frum girls to put out? What about non-orthodox? Maybe I should just give full disclosure,I converted almost a year ago in March, and maybe it’s that there’s virtually no Jewish girls in my town, but the ones I know seem absolutely not interested whatsoever in any sort of social interaction with me. I go to the gym like six times a week and am in some what good of shape. I don’t have the best of job and I go to beit knesset often, but that’s the thing, my shul is pretty much all old people and families. I most of the times spend shabbat all alone, I don’t know how I manage to keep shabbat with some hot piece of Jewish ass–part of the reason I converted was because Jewish chicks are really really hot.
Do I need to like move to New York or Miami or maybe even Israel?
If you converted to score with hot Jewish girls.. I have to say, you sound… empty. Sad and empty.
I just had sex, and it felt soooo good!
I would be happy to lead a discussion on this topic. Y.U. needs someone to facilitate a conversion regarding having loyalty to Y.U. and creating a safe forum for students to discuss issues of concern. Y.U. is a fantastic school and I have spent most of my life there as either a student or teacher. I am greatly disturbed by the bad press this article has created. No other institution can match torah umadah which is communicated at Y.U. Let us graduates and students have pride in our fantastic place of Torah learning . RABBI DR. BERNHARD ROSENBERG
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Subject: : “Dating in the Yeshiva World” OR ANY OTHER WORLD BY DR. ROSENBERG 2000 hits
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