I was just talking with my new GF about my red flags of dating. The biggest one for me is when a girl states that she cannot pee in the woods, if you know me it’s actually not so ironic, but many people find it to be insane. But get this moshel, the girl of my dreams (it’s a moshel because of the girl of my dreams must be able to pee in the woods) and I are on our honeymoon road trip to Alaska and it’s two hundred miles between gas station and she suddenly says she needs to piss like a racehorse and we have to stop at the next bathroom…the sign says the next services are 340 miles away and she’s gotta go). I just don’t want to deal with such scenarios and this is the reason I have red flags. I was thinking of just listing my red flags, but some of them require stories.
Speaking of peeing, I was once on a date with a girl from Washington Heights, we decided to some reason to walk from Midtown to Battery Park and suddenly I had to pee. I figured I would take leave of my date and go behind some bushes so I stated this and she gave me this look that said “you have got to be f#$%ing kidding me” so I refrained. I should have really bounced back with a pretty halachic obligation not to hold in your bathroom needs when you really have to go. Sure, the girl was hot and cool, but the fact she was too formal to allow my lizard drainage without the necessary urinal was a little too high up on the red flag scale.
Older girls who live at home: Another time I went out with this frumster girl from somewhere in Westchester, red flag number one was that she was in her mid to upper 20′s and living at home. The living at home is actually a big red flag for me because (yes I know it’s cheap and the economy sucks) I moved out and supported myself from a young age and I guess I like gals with a show of extreme independence. Unfortunately for me, it;s the norm for frum girls to live at home and my pickiness has squandered my chances at marrying a normal girl so I have started dating converts and baalei teshuva even though their yichus sucks.
Dressing up for dates: I hate dressing up, I generally wear one of three outfits. You can look through close to 5 years of facebook albums and you will notice spandex, bike jerseys, tan shorts, sandals, a few black t-shirts and a red fleece. I haven’t gone clothing shopping in a decade and generally prefer chefs pants to anything else. So when the Westchester girl from the above story about girls living at home insisted that I dress up for the date I was caught off guard. I drove up there in shorts and around the corner from her home (I’m pretty positive someone must have called the neighborhood watch on the dude changing in the middle of the street) I hopped into my black pants and purple shabbos shirt. I already hated this girl and I wasn’t even at the portion where I learned that her parents bought her a brand new car and she wanted an Infiniti and was mildly disappointed at the Honda (if it was now I would have gone Occupy Wall Street on her ass)
No hobbies: During the days when I actually gave Frumster the time of day, I used to skip the entire profile and just read the hobbies section. More often than not, the girls would write hanging out with friends, going shopping and taking care of my niece as their hobbies. Now I don’t mean to knock such pastimes as taking care of your little cousins and I know most frum girls don’t have the means to get into Bikram Yoga, Archery and Slamming Poetry, but can’t you at least set yourself apart from the rest. There was a time in my life that I went out with whom ever came my way (blogging has changed that because women tend to throw themselves at me now) and I remember going out with girls who really had no hobbies, as if they had no interest in anything besides getting married and making more boring frummie babies.
I have no time for fun: I have met and heard about the girls who respond to the question “what do you for fun?” (a red flag in itself because being forced to ask such trivial questions means the girl sucks so much that you have to ask open ended questions to actually elicit some sort of response other than yes or no) with “I have no time for fun” which always brings me to one of my best friends who worked 120 hours a week at one point in his career and still got on his bike, ran several miles, hit up the shooting range and read quite a bit while working what hours no sane person would ever want to, let alone enjoy. It’s not like these girls who were responding that they had no time for fun, were actually doing anything that crazy. They weren’t in residency, working on their dissertations or cycling cross country. They were single girls, mostly living at home going to school or working menial jobs in the frum industries. I always refrained from asking how they would have time for a husband if they had no time for fun. I imagined these girls being the type who never had time for sex either.
Parents supporting them: Basically if you’re 28 years old and your parents support you I want absolutely nothing to do with you. Harsh isn’t it, but I’m that snobby and picky. Fact is I always dated pretty successful (read monetarily successful which doesn’t really cut it for my west coast sensibilities) girls who didn’t need nor want to take money from their parents. But here and there a stray got in, the girl who was somehow able to afford a nice apartment without working and being in school full time. It just got to me a bit, call it the jealousy of my having to grow up in what many people would call working class or struggling financially family and having to make my own way as an adult. But I value fiercely independent women.
About my red flags:
You may have noticed that my red flags are mostly based on money and passion. The funny thing is that in recent years I have gotten away from dating solely outdoorsy girls. I have realized that intellectual capacity and brain power to more valued than outdoors. I figure that when you’re sitting with your wife in the old age home the wit and the mind will be more important than enjoying the same hobbies. Notice how I didn’t say you need comparable hobbies, sure this is a nice thing and I always have a lot in common with the ladies I end up in relationships with, but in general you don’t need to be the same person. I find that the more similar I am to someone the worse we end up.
As I stated before, money is actually a big deal, probably because I have come to terms with the fact I grew up without out and my views on money are that it’s a necessary evil. Marriages mostly break up because of money problems. I think the way people were brought up and their independence on the issue and life in general are an important thing for me. Sure I’m being tongue and cheek, but I am serious about all of the above issues. I even find haskafa to more bendable than money – whenever I get into a relationship I state clearly that I am a frum skeptic and that I have vast existential woes as to validity of Torah and all that stuff I like to shove in back of my head until I pick up a mussar sefer or heretical text.
I find that honesty is best and whenever someone overhears me on the phone with a girl they always say something like “wow you’re really open about stuff” and this to me is the most important lesson I’ve learned through the years. That basically if you BS, you have undermined your entire relationship and it’s built on nothing and will eventually come to bite you in the ass someday.
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{ 49 comments… read them below or add one }
My red flags are more matters of “fit” rather than matters of “unfit for anyone.”
1. Lives in suburbs (or too far out in suburbs if I was living in a suburban city such as NYC): I want to live in an at least somewhat urban environment (good public transit to my job, sidewalks etc). So for me someone who already lives in the suburbs even as a single woman is probably a bad fit.
2. Fan of Fox News: if you’re a conservative, fine. But be someone who reads serious conservative stuff (Russell Kirk, American Conservative magazine), not a retard.
3. General cultural illiteracy: I knew someone who friended a fringe political figure on Facebook (I won’t name him because because that might breach her anonymity), not because she was a anti-Zionist conspiracy theorist but out of sheer ignorance.
All of these would not be big issues for many people; 1 is a problem only if you want to live in a city forever (as I do) and 2 and 3 only if you are smart enough to be easily upset by that level of non-smart.
Just curious, do you have the same intellectual standard for liberals?
Liberals and equal standards. Good one, Dan!
Awesome ad hominem attack! High five!
That is not what an ad hominem attack is. An ad hominem attack is when you attack someone personally, and use that to argue that he must be making a bad point.
Red Flags: Anything.
Because, well, my wife would kill me…
I only have one hakpada, bisexuality. Really, shadchanim, start asking the questions that matter.
She pats her pizza down with a napkin
She’s never had a one night stand
She’s never smoked pot
She refuses to sing karaoke
She doesn’t have any dateable friends
She’s never been tailgating
She has hairy arms
Amen, Bill. Amen.
Well if you really want to get into it than here goes:
420 friendly
Not a virgin
No mustache
No hairy back – couldn’t care less if they don’t shave those legs (although the nether regions are nice when they are clean – I’ve been told)
Is not into frum music
Is into music
Talks to random strangers
Doesn’t count calories
Doesn’t wear granny panties (again I don’t know of such things, but I’ve been told it’s bad)
Doesn’t have a cat (dogs are cool, but cats are a waste of life)
Doesn’t read
Racist and Homophobic
FYI – Girls who wear NO panties have a much easier time peeing in the woods – that’s why I gave em up! (It’s perfectly tznius too – I checked).
What’s your problem with cats?
no underwear is nasty
Piffle. Elastic is a lovely idea, but you would be suprised how much happier you’d be without elastic in or around your…er…area.
Ok, I’m really starting to like you now TSB.
I’m fun!
Well, Bill and I aren’t a match.
Never too big into the serious red flags to be honest. I’ll try anyone as long as we get along, she’s smart, and fun to be around. But I did recently ask a girl if twins run in her family at all. They don’t. I think I will marry her for this. Twins suck. Kinda hope she’s not reading this post, now that I think about it…
First we need to break her out of jail on Saturday nights
then maybe she won’t have time to obsessively follow FS….
Oh so it’s gonna be like that, is it?
…and yeah, that needs to be fixed, like now-ish. Also every other night.
Good question about liberals. I’m not sure there’s any liberal media as widely shared and as lowbrow as Fox News. (There is liberal media that is widely shared, and liberal media that is lowbrow- I’m not sure that anything satisfies both criteria and also is read or seen by Jews).
But once when someone blamed Ariel Sharon for the intifada, I decided I was not interested in her, so maybe stupid anti-Zionism would be a left-wing litmus test. Or maybe if she admired Noam Chomsky.
Good answer. I assume you are referring to the commentary programs, like the Glen Beck stuff.
(I happen to like Glen Beck, and I don’t think it is lowbrow at all. But we are entitled to disagree. You probably assume I’m some ignorant yeshiva guy. Hee hee. You couldn’t be wronger, right hesh?)
if you wanted to go and pee behind a bush while on a date with me, I would drop you immediately. I have nothing against peeing behind a bush but I do have something against being touched (without prior hands washing) after you held your willy to pee. sorry
red flags for me: scarily similar to Woodrow…
My red flags for guys:
won’t take public transportation
have dirty apartments (or at least can’t hide it)
don’t read
don’t care about current events
don’t like to watch or play any sports
lose it over little things
only talks about him/herself
I live in a cheap apartment that hasn’t been taken care of for the past who knows how many years before I moved in. I spent hours trying to clean this place up but the grime is so accumulated I haven’t even made a dent. The only thing apparently clean is the bathroom. But frankly, because of what you said, I don’t want to ever bring a girl to my place, not for a shabbos meal or anything specifically because she’d get the wrong impression about me.
Would I get points for at least having a neat room?
Some dudes have really gross places, like boxers hanging from ceiling fans, and their toilets and showers have never met a cleanser. You don’t sound like you are like that.
Heshy is single.
I wonder if you read the first sentence of the post?
the 1st sentence of your post kind of sums it up-
“I was just talking with my new GF…”
GF’s and BF’s come and go, and are no indicator of a bayis ne’eman, so until there’s a commitment in my books you’d be single.
I agree with anonymous.
Actually, I fit Heshy’s critera, but I’m A) too old for him B) happy in NYC C)I think maybe we rub each other the wrong way.
I can see why he dates converts and BTs. Outside of snooty FFBlands like Monsey and Brooklyn most women will fit Heshy’s criteria. I grew up going camping. I was in the Army and have many times peed in the woods. I remember in my 20′s I hated that guys said they would never dress up-ever and that was a turn off. I like a guy in jeans and a T-shirt but it would be nice if once or twice a year (maybe my birthday) we could get dressed up and do something “fancy.”
It is true, though, that women tend not to be as into their hobbies as guys or rather the “hobbies” are vapid. I filled up the hobbies section on Frumster.
How old are you Michal?
honeymoon ‘roadtrip’?! Good luck with that!
I am 37 and I live with my parents… Not that it’s my idea of a good time, but my mother suffered a heart attack and then the economy crashed. Currently, I pay the bills and take care of the (large) house. It’s too much work for my parents now and their savings was massively effected by the ‘downturn’. Hopefully, the housing market will come back soon and they can sell and move to a retirement community.
Point is: Not every girl that lives at home is a sponge that can’t or won’t support herself. I likely wouldn’t share all that on a first date – I hope you get to know these girls a bit before your red flags reject them completely.
Well, I prefer his red flags any time to the red flags “divorced” “parents divorced” “chozeret bi t’shuva” “Gioret”, and what do I know…
Heshy, I believe that you have officially joined the network of Jewish guys who think that they’re God’s gift to womenhood.
I don’t think so.
It gives me some hopes that not all the guys choose their wives according to the criteria “cloth size” “pretty to watch” “nice make-up” “good Yiches” “submissive”…
Chana, he asked that a girl be LOW-maintenance. How does that exemplify thinking he’s G-d’s gift? If anything that’s asking for very little.
My red flags are:
She doesn’t read (besides peoples magazine or family circle).
She doesn’t drink (nothing like a girl who can appreciate a fine wine or scotch).
Doesn’t keep up with current events.
Thinks that everything in the world is revolved around religion.
And finally, a girl who can’t make a decision on anything without asking a dozen people for their opinions (my god, just make a decision and stick with it!)
crazy jewish,
What’s with girls who go to a restaurant with a group of friends and say to each other “What do I want?” Is your friend psychic?
I KNOW! And what’s the deal with *people*?! I mean… #JerrySeinfeldFail
oh, and I’d pee in the bush any time at the honeymoon in Alaska, and I have a biiiig bladder…
Hi,
I am your perfect match:
43 years, 100 kg, 180m, no dress up, no make up, no high heels. Moved out at 18, financially independent since age 22, hobbies: hiking, playing music, complicated Origami, learning a few more languages…
What about too controlling?
Yes, my mother won’t let me marry anyone who is controlling.
Ha!
Red flags:
420 hater;
Still needs Mom’s say-so in selecting a mate;
Prettier than me;
Doesn’t read;
Isn’t into music;
Couch potato;
Terrible kisser; and
Writes for FrumSatire.
I like all Jewish girls. Period. Always have. Always will.
Any person who thinks “normal” is a virtue is a total red flag for me.
if you want a girl who pees in the woods, consider dating one with bowel movement issues. she can help where she goes.