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Chabad may be Chassidic but it aint Chassidishe

When most people talk about chabad, they usually don’t get lumped in with chassidim, although this pisses off diehard chabadnicks, for the most part the stereotype is pretty true. Some of you may blame it on the fact that unlike the “real” chassidim, chabadnicks don’t wear funny hats, sure they take perfectly good, pimp looking black hats and crush them – but they don’t wear cool fur hats like “normal” chassidim. If you really want to get into dcetails, we could blame the Rebbe’s mother in law for not giving him his fathers Spodick – thereby creating this scenario where chabadnicks are their own sect – but lets face it – we all know there’s more to being chassidishe than having the garb.

As the title states, chabadnicks are definitely chassidic, they are into their dynasty, yichus (hey call it gezhe) and an unwavering cultish following of their rebbe. They also have crazy customs which they cannot explain, only to tell you that is the way the Rebbe did it, so they have their chassidic custoims – but to call them chassidishe would be a strectch.

Why chassidic, but not chassidishe?

Simply, because in the grand scheme of things – chabadnicks on a whole are not frummies. I’m not sure I could ever fully explain this to people who don’t understand what I’m trying to explain, but it’s kind of like trying to classify black hat modern orthodox people, they are not yeshivish, no matter how badly they want to be (in some circles we call them Harry’s) Likewise, chabad is different from most chassidim. They let their women leave the house, keep their hair and wear the color red – apparently chabad is full of untznius ladies and when I asked a shaliach’s wife about this once – she told me that being mekarev (they don’t use that word – they use bring them closer or something of the sort) frier yidden was morte important than hooker boots and red.

So when you talk about chassidim with almost any frum person, they will never ever be talking about chabad, which is probably a good thing – because the conversation will invariably be negative and chabad usually doesn’t burn do violent protests or beat up women for walking down the wrong street. Not only this, but chabad women drive, learn gemara and are coworkers in the chabad house realm.

Search for chabad and other chassidim on 4torah.com

{ 125 comments… add one }
  • Yiddel the Fiddle September 7, 2011, 7:20 AM

    Heshy, I am a long time reader of the blog and love it. Huge fan, great work, never stop, etc.

    This will be my first and only comment ever.

    I just wanted to say that I have fantasized about getting head from the blonde in the “San Francisco Check out this Yiddishkeit!” ad more times than I care to remember. Those big lips, with her teeth barely peeking out, and that tongue lurking in the shadows…its too much. She’s incredible. The pale skin with the rosey cheeks…the doe eyes…the blonde hair…I could go on.

    Dont think of me as some pathetic pervert though. I’ve been going out with a girl for almost a year now, but even she knows about the blonde in the ad. And she knows that if I ever got the opportunity to meet that blonde, it would be over between us.

    Just wanted to let you know. And if you could help me get in touch with the blonde…I would forever be indebted to you.

    All the best with love,
    Yiddel the Fiddle

    • OfftheDwannab September 7, 2011, 10:53 PM

      hahahahahahaha! you need to comment more.

      • chassidish whore September 11, 2011, 6:11 PM

        im thinkin threesome….

  • Chabad'sker September 7, 2011, 8:05 AM

    A very interesting post. On one hand I want to disagree with you and say, as a Chabad guy, I don’t like it when people dont think of Chabad Chassidim as Chassidic.

    We are actually very Chassidic, Chabad is 3 of the ten sefirot, as Bobov and Satmar mold themselves after other parts of the sefirot. In many cases Chabad Chassidim are more “Chassidic” then even bobov and satmar or Ger … etc. For Instance, the Eiruv, almost all Chasidic sects use the Eruv in Boro Park. Chabad does not hold of the Eiruv, the Alter Rebbe’s guidelines for an Eruv are insanely more strict then Kitzur Shulchan Orech (Alter Rebbe holds a physical pole/stick holding the string needs to be placed every 10 tefachim, which, is almost possible to achieve in major cities) Pesach is another case where Chabad are insanely more Chassidic.

    On the other hand, I want to agree with you, because when people think of ultra orthodox, chassidic people its usually a negative way, about abusing women, not letting them drive, odd looking garb …

    So … I both agree and disagree with everything you write, but mostly, I love it 🙂

    • G*3 September 7, 2011, 9:43 AM

      Stricter = more Chassidic? I would have thought that the degree to which one buys into Chassidishe hashkafos makes one more or less Chassidic, not the number of halachic chumros he takes on.

    • Anonymous September 8, 2011, 7:14 AM

      This is more of a socialogical obersvation than a theological one.

    • Mordche June 11, 2013, 12:21 PM

      Actually, not holding by the eruv makes you less chassidishe. The Besht ztzal was maikel by eruvin and basically instructed all his chassidim to do like
      wise. Also, the other chassidim do not structure themselves around sefiros. That is a chabad thing exclusively.

  • Hannah September 7, 2011, 8:09 AM

    It would be stretching beyond truth to say that I was raised in the *chassidic* community, but even I get what you mean. Chassidishe is more than a streimel… but I also think that while the Chabad community IS tied to their own chumrahs, they’re not as rigid about every little thing as much as the larger chassidic community tends to be. Maybe that’s not the right way of saying it, because of course Chabad has its own shticklach, but that’s how I see it. There’s a softness there that isn’t there in what you might consider “balls to the wall” chassids.

    • Tirtza September 7, 2011, 9:39 PM

      Balls to the wall?? Tried to search for the phrase and it came back as a German metal band?

      • OTD chick September 7, 2011, 9:57 PM

        it sounds dirty 🙂

      • Hannah September 8, 2011, 12:37 PM

        BAH HA HA HA HA!!!! Not a German Metal band… or maybe it is, but that’s not what I meant. “Balls to the Wall” generally refers to something that is at one end of an extreme. It… errr…. yes, it is a dirty reference.

  • Chabad'sker September 7, 2011, 8:11 AM

    One last point I meant to mention. I think Chabad, more than any other Chassidic sect, holds the Baal Shem Tov as a still major force of its daily learnings, followings and teachings.

    For instance the Baal Shem tov was really the first person who went out and tried to Mekarav people who werent all Talmidei Chachomom, the “simple” folk …

    And of course we all know The Baal Shem Tov was the original chassid.

    • Yirmiyahu David September 9, 2011, 12:18 AM

      Important to note that the Besht was a great scholar of Talmud as well as “the original chossid”.

  • Mike September 7, 2011, 8:43 AM

    I agree if u go on dating sites u will see girls listed as chasidish who are super hot then u click on the profile and u realize she lubab not chasidish!

  • Yev September 7, 2011, 9:10 AM

    Chabad women learn gemara?

    • beats September 11, 2011, 6:16 PM

      chabad men don’t even learn gemara. they just accept whatever they are told by the higher ups, with blind faith. gemara has too much debate and questioning, it may lead them to *gasp* question their leaders. And then how will the leaders have money and glory?

    • Leah Sarah September 12, 2011, 8:16 AM

      I went to a Chabad seminary and we certainly learned gemara. And it was certainly not the first time for all of the shluchos.

  • Rob September 7, 2011, 9:50 AM

    read this at lunch at kosher place seated at table next to local Chabad rabbi.

  • Leah September 7, 2011, 9:51 AM

    Yup, I’m in a chabad seminary and we have gemara class.

  • nachum September 7, 2011, 10:01 AM

    sidenote: that lady in the pic is enough for me to grab a used hat and start singing yechi adoneinu

    • anon September 7, 2011, 6:10 PM

      Brilliant. And agree.

  • Anonymous September 7, 2011, 10:03 AM

    I get what you’re trying to say.

    They are “chassidic” when you look at the actual intellectual aspects.

    However, they come across differently in terms of culture and lifestyle, not because they aren’t pious, but because of the overwhelming emphasis on the need to reach out to all Jews in order to bring Moshiach. This means that they are far less insular than other Haredi Jews, that they want to reach out to women as well as men, that they will be found in far more places (Bangkok, Katmandu, Congo, etc.) , that they have far more contact with non-frum Jews and are far more likely to be helping out during a disaster than being part of a violent protest.

    Having a strong connection to their own Rebbe also gives them the guts to go against trends elsewhere in the Haredi world, although there are some who moan and groan that other groups in Brooklyn think girls in Crown Heights aren’t modest enough. The women see no need to shave their heads, or wear ugly wigs instead of gorgeous ones, or to stop driving, or to eliminate women from pictures, or to refrain from serious study, or to avoid any public role. There’s also a remarkable Chabad teaching that links the rise of the feminine and end of male domination with the coming of Moshiach.

    • neil September 12, 2011, 7:58 PM

      “They are chassidic when you look at the actual intellectual aspects.”

      or lack thereof

      BTW according to the chumash and the talmud a man owns his wife. is the chumash going to change when mashiach comes?

  • AstroTheSpaceDog September 7, 2011, 10:23 AM

    As an undercover Harry I would like to applaud the use of ‘Harry’…hold on, I gotta adjust my backpack its digging into my over-sized over-the-ears hat…just gotta move my Tolkien collection…there! Undercover Harrys are the way to go!

  • Seriously?? September 7, 2011, 10:47 AM

    Sorry, folks. As much as I’d like it to be otherwise, unless Chabad succeeds in out-spawning the rest of us, it is a dead-end, Jewish-wise.

    Chabad has a unique religion. Part of this includes separating itself, and so it is separated out in turn. Virtually every other kind of chasidic Jew will daven and socialize together – but not Lubavitch.

    Chabad has been a tremendous force for good through the years. I would love it to come to its senses and back away from the Rebbe-worship. But I sense that this is unlikely.

  • Off the OJ September 7, 2011, 11:26 AM

    Chabad was always different. It makes sense that this kind of distinction would be made at some point. They were one of the only Chasidim who lived in the Litvish world and they speak Yiddish with the Litvish dialect whereas the other Chasidim are Poylishers. Also, the Tanya and Shulchan Aruch HaRav were a direct result of a more Litvisher sentiment in focusing on knowledge whereas one of the main Litvisher Misnagid criticisms of Hasidim up to that point was that Chasidism were anti-intellectual and didn’t study Torah.

  • OfftheDwannaB September 7, 2011, 11:47 AM

    I love everything about chabad except the rebbe worship. Really creeps me out.

    • whoah5771 September 8, 2011, 9:44 PM


      • OfftheDwannaB September 9, 2011, 2:39 AM

        What exactly is bullshit?

      • OfftheDwannaB September 9, 2011, 2:44 AM

        This is exactly what I’m talking about. Every post that has something even slightly negative about Chabad has a thousand Chabad chassidim jumping all over it to put out the fires.
        I know a cult when I see one.

        • Hannah September 9, 2011, 6:29 AM

          That’s a little unfair though, don’t you think? Using those criteria, any group with a significant number of members could be considered a cult. If Heshy had written a diatribe lamenting the sins of the Girlscouts (OMFG I LOVE THOSE COOKIES!), I would have written in and given him a stern talking-to. And, if anyone else on here was a girlscout, she might have done the same. That doesn’t make it a cult.

          What makes it a cult, is when you choose not to think for yourself, or when you can’t leave. Having grown up in Brooklyn, I would say there is more than one Chassidshe girl I knew who would have been able to tick off both of those criteria. And to be fair, the Lubovitche were the worst… but maybe that was just my experience.

          • OfftheDwannaB September 9, 2011, 12:17 PM

            No, you’re right. It’s more a siman than a sibah, you know, a signal. And ur right that a lot of chassidim (and yeshivish) are like this too. Chabad might be just the most in ur face.

            • Hannah September 9, 2011, 1:26 PM


        • Critic September 11, 2011, 9:31 PM

          True,but the haters come scurrying out of their rat holes in equal amount to spread their sinat chinom.

          • Critic September 11, 2011, 9:36 PM

            My above comment is made in reference to that which is stated by “OfftheDwannaB””Every post that has something even slightly negative about Chabad has a thousand Chabad chassidim jumping all over it to put out the fires.”

          • OfftheDwannaB September 11, 2011, 9:50 PM

            You’re right about that. There’s bad blood on both sides. I’m just saying that for me personally, aside from the Rebbe, I like Chabad Judaism the best. Unfortunately, the Rebbe plays a huge role.

            • Critic September 12, 2011, 12:18 AM

              Sorry you feel that way about the Rebbe.I’m not a Lubavitcher but he was truly a visionary and a great man.
              Here we are before Rosh Hashana and yet look at the hateful rhetoric and insults being spewed by many ,myself included, in the name of what? Chaval

              • OfftheDwannaB September 12, 2011, 2:35 AM

                I don’t have anything against the Rebbe per se. I read his sichos occasionally and I think they’re great. It’s the following blindly and cult status that the chassidim have given to him that disturbs me.
                But you’re right. It’s not important enough to fight over.

              • lucid September 12, 2011, 2:03 PM

                Critic; I would have kept it civil. But you started off right away with the personal attacks, besides for the fact that you considered some really out of line attacks to be acceptable. So what did you expect? That im going to just stand there and take the abuse? No way

                And btw it was the same thing with arthur. I made my comments, and i stated that which i felt was true. Then this arthur dude came along and started to criticize me and argue with me. He should never have picked a fight to begin with, and it never would have escalated to anything near what it did, and he deserved everything he got, and then some.

          • jo September 11, 2011, 10:15 PM

            oh. So it must be that the haters are part of a anti lubabitch cult. Is that what you are trying to say?

            And, lubabitch is in the minority here, by a lot. So why shouldnt there be at least an equal amount of haters? It is a very polarizing movement, and it is likely that if someone is not part of chabad, then they dislike it. Strongly. Sorry to bust your illusion and replace it with harsh reality.

  • Frozen Chosen September 7, 2011, 5:36 PM

    @Chabadsker– I’m not just trying to be antagonistic, really…but did you fully grasp the post? The crux is that Chabadnikskers ARE “chassidic”. You guys just AREN’T “chassidishe”. By the way, as chassidim, the fact that you’re not chassidishe is a huge +1 for the entire Lubab crew.

    Heshy, please correct me if I’m wrong in my understanding here. And great harry shout out, love it.

  • SSimcha September 7, 2011, 6:30 PM


    its 10 amos not tefachem

    • whoah5771 September 8, 2011, 9:46 PM

      thats still a lot of poles

  • Lirehagi September 7, 2011, 8:48 PM

    Just out of curiousity- why do guys become “harrys”? What do they gain from it? You don’t really have a female equivalent, and I don’t know any Harrys

  • danielGA September 7, 2011, 9:17 PM

    guys i think chabad not being chassidish is a compliment. who would want to be lumped in with a bunch of insane psychos?

    as for the use of the term “frum”… i don’t think you can call them non-frum. anyone that is orthodox is frum and there are some conservative frummies. it just means observant. i don’t think frum = charedi like a lot of people want to make it. you’re not more observant because you observe non-halakic chumras.

    • OTD chick September 7, 2011, 10:07 PM


    • lucid stone September 9, 2011, 3:46 PM

      yes it would be a compliment, IF it were true

  • Arthur September 7, 2011, 10:35 PM

    Can you imagine any other “Chassidic” group other then Chabad producing something like this?

    • Chaim September 8, 2011, 3:58 PM

      Amazing Video

  • Sick September 7, 2011, 10:47 PM

    Thanks Heshy. I was confused before, but you wrote it specifically for me. 🙂

  • Sick September 7, 2011, 10:50 PM

    However, I’m still a little confused. The only reason why they’re not chassidishe is because of the clothes they wear?

  • y-oh-y September 7, 2011, 11:24 PM

    Lirehagi Those who dont know any Harries are them

    • Lirehagi September 8, 2011, 8:06 PM

      I will pay you to come to BK and tell the authorities that I do indeed want to be a frummy so badly…..ROTFLOL! The looks on everyone’s faces!

      There are female Harrys? Seriously? The only Friend’s brother with who I’m on speaking terms is definitely NOT a Harry.

      Just call me Harriet

  • Mendy September 8, 2011, 10:55 AM

    We don’t either speak Yiddish as a first language. Furthermore, our dating system is more like the MO crowd, and movies are accepted

    • Zvi September 8, 2011, 3:59 PM

      Movies are accepted?! What you do in the confines of your own space does not make it accepted. G-d forbid to say so.

    • lubavitch4life September 8, 2011, 7:55 PM

      great name to choose, aye? mendy makes u lubavitch right? dude, get a life. The Rebbe wanted yiddish as a first language and true lubavitchers do that. With regards to movies being accepted, i have no idea which planet you fell from.

  • Chaya September 8, 2011, 11:15 AM

    Hi… I have to say that as a Lubavitch woman, I am deeply offended. I understand that Chabad has a tsnius problem in parts of the world and that we are much more “normal” in the sense that we blend in easily compared to other chassidim, but to say that we are not Chossidish is very offensive. Like everything in life, there is a range. It is true that we treat women with more of a respect, but that has nothing to do with chossidus.

  • Arthur September 8, 2011, 2:42 PM

    I can always be identified as a Hasid. My white shirt and beard give me away, and even though I try to hide my payess under a baseball cap, I still look just like the man who was the last one onto the plane, or at least everyone seems to think that we look alike.
    Never mind that Mr. Trouble Maker, who summoned the attendants when he realized he was assigned a seat next to a female and asked to be switched, has a hat sitting proudly on his head, a hat that I own too but which I had left in the suitcase.
    Never mind that I sit in my shirtthe long black coat with thin blue stripes stashed away in the overhead storagewhile he walks around the heated cabin with not one solid black coat, but two.
    And while I have my headphones on, listening to the in-flight music offerings and unconcerned with hiding my intentions of watching an archived Seinfeld program, he has a little portable talmud in his handno wonder his eyeglasses are so thick. Sin of all sins, I didnt complain about my seat which also happened to be right next to a woman; worse yet, I didnt even ask her to change with her husband or boyfriend sitting on the other side of her. He, on the other hand, stood firmly in the aisle, just two rows away, and showed all the goyim who is boss.
    But no one cares to spot the difference. I look like a Hasid, I must act like one too. When the bearded penguin produces a wife and a million kids from the back to help rearrange the seats, prompting the pilot or co-pilot to announce a slight delay due to people standing in the aisles, the woman next to me stifles a curse in her mouth, clearly not wanting to offend me. Yet, there is nothing more offensive to me than being associated with him.
    When things finally settle down and the pilot switches off the seat belt signs, before I even have the chance to ask my friend a few rows back if he noticed him, the guy is all smiles, shouting from the other side of the aisle to get my attention. Of course, he wants a minyan for the prayers. I give him my standard response, I already prayed, while I can see him calculating the likelihood of me having prayed after sunset back in Brooklyn. Lucky for me, he keeps quiet. So much for thinking that by avoiding El Al and traveling with Lufthansa through Germany I would avoid being branded one of a backward bunch of smelly savages. To the couple next to me it mustve only reinforced my association with that fellow. Our common language, Im sure, didnt help either. I resent him for making me one of them.
    The plane lands, finally. I notice soon enough the affects of 9/11, 7/7, 3/11 and whatnot. Security, stringent before Al Qaeda was a brand name, looks even tighter now. The lines seems twice as long, and as I get closer I notice the customs officials asking questions, questions not unlike the usual: Whats the purpose of your visit?
    My turn comes. I take out my ticket, boarding info and passportproud to be a US citizen and realize my passport is gone. I stand there frozen, alarmed at what I see as a nightmare for the next few hours or days. I see myself chained to a chair in a waiting room, grilled by stern-faced Israeli putzes. People in line behind me scramble to find a new line, understanding that this is going to be a tough one. From the other side of the hall a voice bellows in Yiddish, Everything okay?
    I turn around and there is the bearded-double-coated-ugly-voice-pious-son-of-a-bitch-Hasid.
    My passport is lost! I shout back, unaware of how desperate I sounded, thinking maybe he could help.
    Desperate I am. My carry-on bag is now wide open, its contents spilled on the floor, as I rummage through it all to find my passport. Another fat security guy stands firmly over me, then I spot a skinny one, and then a nondescript one, and I almost give up.
    Saviors come in different forms, however, and Mr. Trouble Maker redefines himself as Mr. Savior. He directs his wife and million kids to go search for my passport while the security fatsos stand around making sure that I wont escape. Mr. Savior has by now orchestrated a rescue mission to help a fellow Jew, a fellow Hasid.
    As much I might have despised his behavior, he still felt like a brother to me, while I felt the same to him. Otherwise I would have had no hostile feelings towards him when he shouted across the plane aisles, or when he prayed and shokeled and rocked his virtuous hips in prayer. While I hated to be associated with him, he now hurries to assist me in my time of distress. The look on his face, yes, that very face with the unkempt beard that Id so hated just an hour before, when one of his million kids, one of the very ones I despised so much not even an hour ago, finds my passport in the plane aisle beggars description. He is happy to have done a mitzvah, he is happy to have taught his kids to do a mitzvah, and is clearly happy just to see me, a fellow Hasid, happy. For the good or for the bad, were still family.

  • Mendy September 8, 2011, 4:15 PM

    If you like it or not the majority of chabad people watch movies, and yes it’s more or less accepted.

    • lubavitch4life September 8, 2011, 7:59 PM

      sorry dude, simply aint true, and its definitely not accepted. U r either not a lubavitcher who is having fun using the name mendy, or u subscribe to the ‘chabab lite crowd’. Lubavitch is not what geniuses like you drag it into. Lubavitch is defined by no one besides for the rebbe. Someone who doesnt follow the rebbes directives and the protocol required to be part of the chassidus is simply not. you can be friends of lubavitch, chabad lite, whatever you want to call yourself, but its not lubavitch.

      • whoah5771 September 8, 2011, 9:47 PM

        whats chabad-lite?

        • Hannah September 9, 2011, 6:21 AM

          It’s chabad, but with Splenda. Is that kosher? Kosher Splenda.

      • Mordechai February 8, 2012, 6:46 PM

        My rav watches movies, and he’s Chabad. I watch movies, and I’m Chabad. It’s okay to watch movies, just so long as they contain some sort of Jewish content and isn’t profane or containing innappropiate images.

    • Arthur September 8, 2011, 8:01 PM

      Much less.

  • Mendy I like your name. September 8, 2011, 7:57 PM

    Mendel reminds me of almonds.

  • chabad is chassidish all the way! September 9, 2011, 12:42 AM

    I have studies these issues for years. Chabad is 100% chassidish, only without a few of the dumber and/or less attractive customs of their brother chassidim. But in the mind they are all the same, more or less.

    The chassidus that chabad is most similar to is yeshivish chassidus. but thats another topic.

  • just a guy that thinks September 9, 2011, 12:53 AM

    what i dont understand about chabad and its rebbe, was how they ever got away with such blatant plagiarism, in the shlichus aka missionary movement that they got directly from the church. But i guess it doesnt really matter anymore, now that shlichus is well established. And i dont really have a problem with learning something from the church that doesn’t have a direct bearing on religion and ideology. If the church invented a pen that doesnt run out, or an affordable super computer, would you not use it? its the same thing.

    and im sure that many architectural techniques that are used in jewish and non jewish homes alike, were developed for the church, in the middle ages. Picture frames were developed for the church. im sure that there are quite a few other things as well that were first made for/by the church, that are now in common usage.

    as long as the actual religion and idelology is preserved and unnafected, i dont see an issue. But once your religious beliefs and teachings start to get influenced by another religion, thats where you have a problem, IF you believe that your religion is of divine origin and therefore should not be tampered with.

    • Arthur September 9, 2011, 7:59 AM

      “what i dont understand about chabad and its rebbe, was how they ever got away with such blatant plagiarism, in the shlichus aka missionary movement that they got directly from the church.”
      “Shlichus” is not something derived from the church C”V.
      It stems from the two dictums in the Torah of “Hoceiach tochiach amosecho'” and “Veoavto leraiacho komocho”.

      • rainman September 9, 2011, 2:25 PM

        The word “mission” originates from 1598 when the Jesuits sent members abroad, derived from the Latin missionem (nom. missio), meaning “act of sending” or mittere, meaning “to send” — wikipedia


      • rainman September 9, 2011, 2:28 PM

        the whole concept of Evangelism was something invented by the church, only to be copied by chabad and other chassiduses hundreds of years later. Which isnt to say its wrong or right. Its just a fact

        • rainman September 9, 2011, 2:36 PM

          see wikipedia/missionary, first paragraph, that the word “missionary” derives from the latin word missionem (nom. missio), meaning “act of sending” or mittere, meaning “to send”

      • yanky September 9, 2011, 3:44 PM

        it doesnt say anywhere in the torah and halacha to go out to where not frum people live and preach to them. those two dictums refer to someone who saw someone do something against the torah with his own eyes, according to all the rishonim and all the poskim. It is something that chabad made up, probably drawing influence from the christian missionary movement, like just a guy said.

        • Arthur September 25, 2011, 7:52 AM

          Did you ever hear of “Kol Bnai Yisroel areivim zeh bzeh”?

    • ghottistyx September 9, 2011, 9:03 PM

      Dude, I hate to break it to you, but the Buddhists were evangelizing before Christianity was even conceived. Historically, they were the first people to spread their faith not by conquest, but by sending people out to educate and proselytize. Shall we accuse the church of plaigerism here?

      • rainman September 10, 2011, 6:32 PM

        Dude, thats a good point. And the answer is, if the christians took the idea from the buddhists and tried to pretend that it was there own, then yes, that would be plagierism. If not, then no

  • norman the dorman lorman September 9, 2011, 12:59 AM

    they have a special dress code? they are chassidish in my book.
    they learn kabbalah? chassidish in my book.
    they have a rebbe? chassidish in my book.

    • Arthur September 11, 2011, 9:24 AM

      “they learn kabbalah? chassidish in my book.”
      The truth is that for some reason most contemporary Chassidim in almost all Chassidic sectors do not learn Kabbalah .Yes there are many Kabbalistic books based on Lurianic Kabbalah and the Zohar written by the Chassidic luminaries but by and large are not be being studied on a regular basis with the exception of Chabad.As an example The Tanya which is based on Kabbalah and authored by R’ Shneur Zalman of Liadi,the first Lubavitcher Rebbe, is studied by most sincere Chabadniks as well as those Kabbalah based books authored by other Lubavitcher Rabeim .

  • Arthur September 9, 2011, 7:51 AM

    “they learn kabbalah? chassidish in my book.”
    Definitely a bunch of hogwash (pardon the expression).The Maise Hamerkova in Tanach is essentially Kabbolah.Kabbolah all though not mentioned by name can be found in the Talmud.The Ari which predated the Bal-Shem, the founder of the Chassidic movement, was not a Chosid.The Zohar, upon which the essentials of Kabbolah are based,whether you believe it was authored by Rashbi or the Rishon Moshe DeLeon were not not Chassidim.The GR’A and his followers starting with R’Chaim Velozhoner,who were definitely not Chassidim,. were great Kabbalists.So your “book”is wrong.
    “they have a rebbe? chassidish in my book.”
    The veneration afforded Yeshivese Roshei Yeshiva nowadays equals that veneration afforded Chassidishe Rebbes.That does not make them”Chassidish”.So again your “book” is wrong .

    • norman September 11, 2011, 1:13 PM

      btw arthur, just out of curiousity, what do you do for a living? it will help me to understand your comments better, as it will put them in better perspective

      • Arthur September 11, 2011, 2:27 PM

        By profession I’m a retired psychologist with doctorates in both behavioral and clinical psychology.Hope that helps.

  • lucid stone September 9, 2011, 12:38 PM

    the difference between Chabad and Satmar is that chabad has a large and well funded PR department, Satmar doesn’t

  • lucid stone September 9, 2011, 12:48 PM

    Arthur, what chassidus are you?

    and btw you should know that the so called “yeshivish” movement is just another chassidus. The chassidus that they are most similar to happens to be chabad, like someone here already noted. stop trying to play pretend and admit that these are all chassidus, these are all stupid cult like movements, when it is obvious to any half witted person already

    • Arthur September 9, 2011, 2:24 PM

      Well I’m one Chabad “half witted person” who doesn’t understand what the point of your above rant is really about and what you mean when you say “stop trying to play pretend and admit that these are all chassidus”.That is exactly what I said in my above comment ” The veneration afforded Yeshivese Roshei Yeshiva nowadays equals that veneration afforded Chassidishe Rebbes”.IOW even though technically we don’t refer to the yeshivish crowd as Chassidish, in essence they are similar in this respect.Even the MO crowd have what are commonly referred to as “gedolim” such as R’ Shamshon raphoel Hirsh ,R’YB Soloveichik or the present day R’hirshel shechter ,even though I highly doubt that they would go along with some of the antics that pass for “Modern” Orthodoxy today.Those of us in the Chassidish,Chareidish or Yeshivish sectors are not exactly paragons of virtue either.
      I don’t know what sector of Judaism you would classify yourself as if any.
      ” The difference between Chabad and Satmar is that chabad has a large and well funded PR department, Satmar doesnt”.If that’s what you think the difference between Chabad and satmar is I would say to you stop drinking the Kool Aid and get back on your meds or better yet get yourself an education before spouting off with that nonsense.
      As to your “eloquently” put statement that ” these are all stupid cult like movements, when it is obvious to any half witted person already” is not worthy of a reply.You seem to possess a definite animosity and rancor which I have no intention of addressing during this late afternoon Erev Shabbat.
      Shabbat shalom.

      • in my sights. ghost reporting September 11, 2011, 1:32 PM

        yes you are half witted, and you also blatantly contradict yourself here. In the above comment you say that gdolim or rebbes aren’t proof of chassidishness, your proof to this, that even the yeshivish have rebbe-like gdolim (which prompted lucid to say that the so called yeshivish are actually just another chassidus, by the way, just in case you didn’t understand his very lucid comment). But here you say that the fact that the yeshivish have venerated gdolim does make them chassidish.

        Lucid didn’t even call you half witted. He said that you are foolishly trying to pretend something. And i see that you also totally misunderstood and misread many of the other comments on this page. Which is why i think that you don’t belong on any forum, until you learn to read properly. I also see that you think its ok to compare jews who don’t share your worldview to militant arabs who attack our Israeli brothers. Another reason why you should be summarily thrown out of this forum on your face.

        But if you didn’t prove it before, you certainly proved it here, and in many of your other comments on this thread. Halb vit is what you are, in chassidic jargon.

        • Arthur September 11, 2011, 3:11 PM

          I saidThe veneration afforded Yeshivese Roshei Yeshiva nowadays equals that veneration afforded Chassidishe Rebbes”.With the caveat”That does not make them (meaning the Roshei Yeshivos)Chassidish not that Rebbes are not Chassidish and please we can do without the ad hominim attacks. My only “crime” here is that perhaps I was not clear enough in my assertion for which I apologize.

        • Arthur September 11, 2011, 3:47 PM

          “I also see that you think its ok to compare jews who dont share your worldview to militant arabs who attack our Israeli brothers. Another reason why you should be summarily thrown out of this forum on your face.”
          This is really getting absurd.I just used the Arab Israel situation as a moshul in that Lucid is denying me the right of reply to his assertions and his “advice” to go elsewhere.In no way was it my intention to imply that he is a terrorist C”V.If you or he or maybe your’e one and the same, insists that I mean otherwise that’s your choice or perhaps you have some agenda here.I could say more but in the spirit of chodesh Elul I’ll stop at this point
          A ksivah vechasima tovah

  • lucid stone September 9, 2011, 2:32 PM

    Arthur, i respect your views and opinions, no matter how wrong they are from my perspective. But, I would suggest that you try a different site, such as yeshiva world news and the like. One that caters more to people with your viewpoint. Your comments and views will be much more appreciated there, i think. And, you wont be angered by the comments of people there either. Kol tuv, hatzlacha rabbah, be gebentched, tiheyeh baseder.

    • Arthur September 9, 2011, 3:03 PM

      I assume that you speak for the bal hablog and all the commentators here.Did you take a vote on this was there some kind of popular consensus to that affect?
      In any case that which wrote were responses to both you and the comment of “norman the dorman lorman”.
      Are you of the opinion that I don’t have the right of reply?

      • lucid stone September 9, 2011, 3:49 PM

        no i never suggested such a thing, nor would i ever. I was just giving you a bit of friendly and helpful advice, from one jew to another. take it or leave it. stay here, and be angered by enemies and detractors. or go there, and find friends. its your choice. maybe you like arguing with people. i have no idea.

        • Arthur September 10, 2011, 5:49 PM

          “maybe you like arguing with people. i have no idea.”
          I had a good laugh when I read your above statement.Permit me to make an analogy.
          As we all are very well aware of the Jews of southern Israel are continuously under attack by their friendly neighbors from the Gaza strip.When the Jews have the audacity to reply in kind to these attacks the Arabs scream, foul play,the Israelis are once again accused of being aggressors,the world condemns the Zionist entity for being so blatantly brutal because they dare to defend themselves.
          I am a Lubavitcher and am proud of it.This is an open forum called “Frum Satire”.Along comes along an individual, namely yourself and makes some snarky,ignorant,and bigoted statements about Lubavitch namely that “the difference between Chabad and Satmar is that chabad has a large and well funded PR department, Satmar doesnt” and “these are all stupid cult like movements, when it is obvious to any half witted person already .I highly doubt that these comments or better said attacks were made satirically.I’m not going to get into an argument with you about the veracity or the lack thereof of these statements.You have the right to say anything you want but you expect these attacks to remain unchallenged.You attack me and the community I belong to and when I have the chutzpah to respond in kind you accuse me of argumentativeness, I should go elsewhere.So lets be honest, who is the “aggressor” here? Who is truly looking for an argument?
          Shavuah Tov.

          • rainman September 10, 2011, 10:56 PM

            ok let me give you a little tip arthur. This site is made by modern orthodox people. Chabad is ultra orthodox.

            I also like how you are trying to compare me to the arabs. Really great. I love you now, right? I am just like an arab who attacks jews, am i not? you make your own monsters. Never forget that. You can be sure that this jew will never again donate a penny to chabad as long as he lives. Nor will he advise others to donate there. Hope you are feeling accomplished now.

          • lucid stone September 10, 2011, 11:23 PM

            ok arthur, let me give you a little tip. This site is made by people who are Modern Orthodox. The articles on this site represent a left wing Modern Orthodox hashkafah and view. Chabad is ultra orthodox.

            I like how you compare me to the arabs. Really great. I probably love you now, right? I am just like the arabs who attack jews, am i not? You make your own monsters. Never forget that. You can be sure that this jew will never donate another penny to chabad as long as he lives. Nor will he encourage others to do so. Hope you are feeling accomplished now.

          • lucid stone September 10, 2011, 11:51 PM

            ok arthur, let me give you a little tip. This site is made by people who are modern orthodox. The articles on this site represent a Modern Orthodox hashkafah and view. Chabad is ultra orthodox.

            I had more comments that would hopefully educate you a little about what kind of comments are acceptable and which aren’t in a conversation, as you are obviously lacking much in that area, and about the kind of negative effect that comments comparing other jews to arabs who attack jews would have on you and the movement you ascribe to, and hence represent. But apparently the mods of this site prefer that you be left in the dark, if there are mods here at all. So sorry. Suffice it to say that you make your own monsters. Dont forget that. And you have certainly created some here for you and your dear chabad movement with your most enlightening, and horrifying comments about jews who are like arabs. To say i am shocked and appalled cannot even begin to begin to describe it.

            And to say that my perception of a movement that produces such people — who lack so much in the basic decency towards people department — has greatly changed, and that my further actions in regard to said movement will change as well, to reflect that giant change of perception, would be 100% correct.

            Normally I would judge you favorably, and make some excuse like you never had parents or a family growing up so you never learnt about the most basic things about how to act among people and such, but do you really think that i am inclined to, after the comments you have made? no way. And i dont even think that chassidus would require it of me in this kind of situation.

            • Arthur September 11, 2011, 12:07 AM

              Wow.So you finally show your true colors.Your’e not MO.After a rant like yours I would say your’e nothing more then a raving lunatic.One sick dude.A pity.Again I strongly suggest that you get back on your meds.Apparently you also lack reading comprehension skills.A rachmonis.

              • lucid stone September 11, 2011, 12:13 AM

                Arthur, im not going to waste too much more time on you. But, imagine if Reuven called Shimon a nazi, because Shimon argued in a way that Reuven didn’t like. Who is the sicko here?

                Do you really think that there is any difference in our minds between the nazis ym”sh and the arabs ym”sh who are attacking jews today?

                • lucid stone September 11, 2011, 12:20 AM

                  Yes, i thought that you would have nothing to say when the realization of the scope of your comments finally sinks in. Which also indicates that your brain works slow, but that can be expected of someone who ascribes to something like chabad.

              • lucid stone September 11, 2011, 12:27 AM

                and by the way, when did i ever say anything about being MO?

                You should also know that many of your comments are absurd to the point of being humorous. A rare feat. e.g. “I lack reading comprehension skills”. I LOLed at that one. I lack reading comprehension skills, when i am actually a successful author. Kudos to you, who made me laugh when trying to insult me. Like I said, its a rare feat. Something that a dumbass like you can pull off with ease. Make more moronic comments, please. Im looking for a laugh

                • Sceptic September 11, 2011, 12:53 PM

                  Your’e a successful author? I knew your writing looked familiar. Did you ever write for “Mad” magazine? You really have a lot of hate in you.

                  • lucid stone September 11, 2011, 2:36 PM

                    i know, insulting or ridiculing someone who just compared me to hamas or nazis is jut sooo hateful, isn’t it? Its just so wrong. :-7

                    Go f*ck yourself

                    • Critic September 11, 2011, 4:46 PM

                      Yep! definitely wrote for Mad.Very “lucid” with his invective.

                  • target in my sights. ghost reporting September 11, 2011, 6:23 PM

                    One of four things, my misguided friend. If you think such comments that compare jews to violent arabs are ok. Either you aren’t jewish, or you were brought up not jewish, or you are stupid as hell, or you are one sick jew. And you are obviously also quite ignorant, as Mad magazine is a HUMOR magazine LOLOLOL

                    • target in my sights. ghost reporting September 11, 2011, 6:26 PM

                      the above was intended at skeptic. it was accidentally posted as a reply to l stone

                    • Critic September 11, 2011, 7:29 PM

                      Yep!That’s what I said. I find your comments and Lucid’s,who are actually one and same,very humorous.Really some form of satire.

                  • target in my sights. ghost reporting September 11, 2011, 9:55 PM

                    Shut it troll. Or should i say troll wannabe. You aren’t fooling anyone.

                    • Critic September 11, 2011, 10:01 PM

                      I’m not trying to Lucid.

          • lucid stone September 11, 2011, 2:59 PM

            In case i wasn’t clear enough, in the other long comment, as i see that some people here have trouble understanding even simple comments. Arthur, before this conversation, i had a somewhat favorable perception of chabad, even if it is a dumb cult. At least they are nice people. Or so i thought. How wrong i was. But after the comments you have made here, specifically the ones about hamas, you can be sure that this jew will never give another penny to chabad for the rest of his life. Nor will he encourage anyone to do so. Nor will he encourage any contact with chabad in any way. If this is the kind of person that chabad produces. Hope you’re happy now.

  • huh? September 9, 2011, 2:41 PM

    Arthur what you are trying to claim is ridiculous. Official chabad stance is that chabad is a chassidus. Chabad has had seven chassidic rebbes, from Rav SZ Liadi down to Reb MM Shneerson. They are perhaps the two most well known and influential chassidic rebbes that ever lived.

    Yes, chabad did have a presence in Lita, but that doesnt change the fact that it is a chassidus to the very core. Every 7 year old knows this.

    cmon, face reality and deal with it. changing reality in your mind is not going to change anything, unless you make a real change in your life. If you are unhappy belonging to a chassidic group, then change that. dont make believe that you dont, it wont help any. good luck

  • Arthur September 9, 2011, 2:56 PM

    “Arthur what you are trying to claim is ridiculous. Official chabad stance is that chabad is a chassidus etc”
    Huh? did I say otherwise?
    Please quote the phrase where I said that Chabad is not Chassidus.

  • huh? September 9, 2011, 3:08 PM

    you argued with norman who said that it is a chassidus. and he gave three ways to know.

    while it may be true that it is possible for someone to be not chassidic and still have a strict dress code (ie only wears scarlet and blue) or learn kabbalah or have a “rebbe”. If chassidim do these things out of chassidus, then they are signs of chassidus. In other words, that type of kabbalah learning and application, and that kind of dress code, and that kind of leader — the kind that chabad and other chassiduses have, the kind borne out of chassidus and chassidic teachings — they are all strong signs of chassidus, since they came about through chassidus and its leaders.

    But its true that when britney spears learns kabbalah, she is not being chassidic, because it is a very different style of kabbalah learning and application. or if — whatever, i think you get my gist

    • Arthur September 9, 2011, 3:19 PM

      I reiterate that Kabbolah is not the exclusive domain of Chabad or Chassidus in general and that was all my comment meant and I was not referring to Britnney Spears LOL.Please read my comment again and I have no quibble with his comment about Chassidic dress or any other type of dress for that matter.

  • Mendy September 9, 2011, 3:59 PM

    Yes I am Lubavitch, I even happen to be a graduate of all the big yeshivas – namely Toronto, Brouny, and oholai torah. Anyway, if you like it or not the vas majority of lubavitchers watch movies, and a smaller majority go to bars – which are both accepted by most people.

    • Shmerel September 10, 2011, 11:27 PM

      interesting. what do they learn in chabad yeshivos? I once lived near one. (For teenage kids around 13-17) Looked like lots of partying and baseball games. But im all for it. You need to give the kids what they need today. Make it a fun time. Great. They’ll get a good feel for judaism hopefully.

      Also, how many chabad yeshivos are there in North America?

  • Shmerel September 10, 2011, 11:28 PM

    are there mods on this site?

  • Seriously?? September 11, 2011, 7:11 AM

    I, for one, am NOT Modern Orthodox. It is a philosophy entirely lacking in consistency.

    • Shmerel September 11, 2011, 12:41 PM

      what are you then? Reform? Chassidic? Other?

      • Seriously?? September 11, 2011, 12:44 PM

        Torah Jew

  • Chabad Rocks September 11, 2011, 4:39 PM

    Chabad is chassidishe. All the way. I love Chabad. Chabad is awesome. It is my love. I love Chabad. Chabad 🙂 Chabad <3 Chabad *kisses*

  • elishebabridgebuilder September 24, 2011, 4:37 AM

    “crazy customs which they cannot explain”……don’t you have crazy customs also…like make-up & hair dye which end up in everyone else’s water supply ?

  • gutisbeser September 24, 2011, 11:17 PM

    whats with the cheap, vulgar language/ who you tryin’ to impress? are you trying to sound “hip”” ? sorry, you sound like a cheap smalltime gangsta..clean up ur act! or dont communicate with decent folks!!

  • Mr. Cohen December 4, 2011, 10:49 PM

    It sometimes seems that Chabad is not interested in learning from any Rabbis except their own.

  • Kathryn January 20, 2012, 10:37 AM

    Let me ask you all a question: would you ever talk about Native Americans, religious Indians, or Busdhists the way you talk about frum jews like chassidim? Would you ever mock, dismiss, or insult them or their beliefs and lifestyle like you do of chassidim?

    No. You would probably find them interesting, and though you may not believe or agree with some of the tenets of their beliefs, you would probably admit that there’s a lot of wisdom and truth to be learned from them.

    So instead of mocking and shitting on the members of your own nation, why don’t you use your time on earth more productively and see what you could learn from them?

    And I say your “own nation” because I assume most of you are Jews posting on this site. Only a Jew could be so hypercritical, close- minded and defensive towards Jewish beliefs, after all.

  • lucid stone April 3, 2013, 4:19 PM

    i take back all the bad stuff i said about chabad. Chabad is a truly wonderful organization, doing good around the world. The more power to them. May all of chabad’s adherents be blessed from above with health, wealth, and wisdom.

  • Stephenie Mc Cullum December 1, 2013, 10:35 PM

    Is there any staff member ?

  • Koby Berkovits May 6, 2018, 5:32 AM

    Hey Heshy, love the blog, I’m a nephew of one of your mates. Just to comment on something you say tons. Not tznius chabad etc. Sure there’s tons of people who associate themselves with chabad, they go to a Chabad house to daven, they grew up Chabad but fried out, they’re coming closer to yiddishkeit and call themselves Chabad etc, who are not the most tznius. I get it. But it doesn’t say anywhere in [(shulchan oruch) in brackets because shulchan oruch preceded Chabad by hundreds of years so obviously it wouldn’t say], shulchan oruch harav or anywhere in Chabad Chassidus that Chabad doesn’t need to be tznius. In fact quite the contrary, the Rebbe has many many sichos on the importance of tznius especially in the Chabad community and definitely to be extra tznius on shlichus because you’re a symbol and role model for not yet religious people. So maybe because people see trendy/fry people in crown Heights who wear pritzus or non tznius, it doesn’t mean that ethically and morally Chabad is ok with people not wearing tznius. Chabad doesn’t endorse non tznius. It’s not the Rebbe’s way; it’s not Lubavitch.

    P.s: don’t take this as an attack, just want to inform. I love everything else on your blog. Hope you keep uploading stuff, been missing it! Have a good week.

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