RE: Are there any hot girls reading this?

Dear Heshy,

I read your blog regularly and I just wanted to ask you a question concerning the supposedly shallow post about your friends looking to date attractive girls. I’m in my late 20’s and I feel that I’m about to pass my prime and I hope I don’t sound to shallow, but I’m also looking for a guy that only needs to meet one specific thing. I’m looking for a guy who keeps shabbos, I know it’s a bit presumptuous for me to say this considering the fact that anyone looking for something that specific may be lambasted as shallow, but to me shabbos is so important that I don’t want to compromise on it.

If you should post this message please leave my name and contact information out of it. I’m 29 and will soon be 30, I consider myself to be modern orthodox machmir and am looking for a guy who keeps shabbos, there are obviously other factors, but it’s been tough because so many shadchanim think I’m too old to be asking for such things, they call me picky. My friends think I’m searching for the perfect thing and they tell me I need to expand my options – this is the shidduch crisis after all and many of the shabbos keeping guys are married or interested in younger meat.

I can’t just come out and say I want one specific thing when I’m online, I use shabbos as the chief weeding out factor,m no shabbos no chuppah. Do you know any guys who keep shabbos – you can send their profiles to me and then I can be sure that I at least have something that I can work with – obviously I don’t want a guy who only keeps shabbos – I need more, there’s other days in the week, but it sounds like a good starting point don’t ya think?

thanks

Comments on this entry are closed.

  • SumFratire

    Apples to oranges. A person’s shabbos observance is theoretically unchanging throughout the course of a marriage. A girl’s hotness will undoubtedly change (for the worse) within a relatively short period of a marriage.

    • Hayyim `Ovadya

      I would have thought that the main difference is that roughly speaking, taking the Orthodox community as a dating pool as a given (and maybe throwing in the “Traditionals” and the Conservative mahmirs for some ecumenism), having Shabbat observance as the standard would result in a much larger pool of prospects than having a very specific aesthetic preference.

      I mean, come on, maybe if she threw in that he must keep 72 minutes, daven vatiqin, make qiddush (after tset hakokhavim at night and before hatsot in the morning) on non-mevushal wine, Sephardic stringincies on what kinds of breads may be used for hamotsi, maqpid to use only pre-opened containers and bottles, hasn’t skipped mayim aharonim or bentsched without a jacket and hat (or gartel) in the past 10 years, no timers (even for lights), etc., I’d see it. But basic Shabbat observance is pretty much a sine qua non of Orthodox (and even some elements of “right-wing” non-Orthodox) life, whereas being “hot,” well, isn’t.

    • Seriously?

      You live a very sad existence.

      My wife was hot when I met her. Smoking hot.

      Now, many kids and years later, she is even hotter than she was – she still sometimes gets wolf whistles in the street. But mostly she is hotter because we have learned how to make each other happy. I can say without reservation that married life, for those who invest in it, is MUCH more exciting than single life ever was.

      If you appreciate each other properly, you grow into the person the other one wants. It is unbelievably satisfying on all levels.

      • SumFratire

        As you say, “mostly she is hotter because we have learned how to make each other happy” and “If you appreciate each other properly, you grow into the person the other one wants. It is unbelievably satisfying on all levels.”. That is NOT physical hotness how its normally used.

        I was using ‘hotness’ as its normally used, in the purely physical sense. Presumably, this is how the author of ‘Are there any hot girls reading this?’ was using it. While you may be more attracted to your wife now than 20 years ago, I find it hard to believe that in a purely physical sense a 45 year old woman is hotter than when she was 25 and “smoking hot”. That’s simply not how the body ages. Even more so for 25 vs. 50/55/60, etc.

        • Seriously?

          A self-assured, sexy woman who is comfortable in her skin, knows what she is doing and who knows you *very* well, is so much better than some young, dumb piece of fruit.

          Your definition of hot is juvenile. I don’t live in the purely physical world – we are Jews, interested in the spiritual. Grow a little – it is worth it!

        • Seriously?

          You are right. A 14 year old girl is physically “hotter” than a 30 year-old woman. Except that females are only equated to blow-up dolls by shallow adolescent boys who have no understanding that a sexy woman, comfortable in her skin, and with a deep appreciation of how to please (and be pleased) through her body, is FAR more attractive than a mere girl.

          You may only care about the physical. That would make you the perfect match for a blow-up doll.

          I, on the other hand, as a grown man and as a Jew, appreciate the spiritual side as well. And yes, a smart and confident woman is FAR hotter to me than an insecure but fresh girl.

          There is no way any single man reading this is likely to understand. But I hope at least that women read this, and realize that aging gracefully can have plenty of benefits!

          • Ansy

            not that i care – but you seem to be completely missing the point, ie the original “are there any hot girls reading this” post a few weeks back, heshy posted on behalf of his buddies who only want to date physically attractive girls and that is their sole criteria. The idea this current poster/author brings forth is that she is basically only looking for shabbos observant guys, and that this is similar to heshy’s friend looking for ONLY physically attractive girls as it is a sole criteria. SumFratire is merely pointing out that the current author is making a poor comparison as she is looking for something that, theoretically shouldnt really change over the course of a marriage (and is therefore probably something that should be a given and not and “over and above” criteria), whereas Heshy’s friend(s) were looking for something that doesnt last forever and, in fact, gets worse. Whether women become more attractive from an emotional standpoint throughout a relationship is neither relevant nor a factor in this comparison in any way. Its simply comparing the criteria of shabbos observance and physical beauty – one gets worse, the other doesnt (shouldnt?)

            • SumFratire

              Ansy – thanks. Its surprisingly frustrating when an anonymous person (Seriously?) complete misunderstands what you’re saying.
              http://xkcd.com/386/

            • Seriously??

              I think the difference is NOT that some things must change, and others may not. I think the difference is that one of these things can be *chosen*.

              To decide on a mate based on the choices that person has made is *entirely* valid. I dont know anyone who thinks otherwise.

              To decide on a mate based on things they *cannot* choose (“hotness”) is open for discussion. It often comes down to degree.

            • SumFratire

              Ansy – thanks. Its surprisingly frustrating when an anonymous person (Seriously?) complete misunderstands what you’re saying.
              http://xkcd.com/386/

    • http://www.frumsatire.net Heshy Fried

      Shabbos observance definitely fluctuates throughout life – you think that one is going to be the exact same religiously when they are married and again at 30, 50, 70, etc…

      think again, the growing number of divorces in my circles seem to be developing from a lack of religious devotion in one of the partners. This may be because so many folks get married after a stage of frumming out, only to realize they were fooling themselves.

      • Ken

        Shabbos observance cannot fluctuate. There is one right way to do it and you are either doing it or you are not. There is no fluctuation. If you were previously doing it and you “fluctuate” you are then obviously no longer doing it. At all. Like s e xuality and negiah. Except that with s e xuality and negiah it’s confusing because when you stop doing it is when you start doing it.

        • http://www.freebooters.org Ben

          You realize that people posken differently, right? And there’s stuff like minhag, yeah?

          One right way, there is not.

          • Ken

            Kofer.

      • SumFratire

        I used the word “theoretically” because I agree that it will most likely fluctuate.

  • Esther M.

    Hm, I’m not sure if she’s being serious or not – which is the mark of bad satire, if this is indeed satire.

    But, if she is being serious, I actually a bit understand where she’s coming from. If you’re dating in the orthodox world, you would assume that being shomer shabbos is a given. But if you’re MO, it’s slim pickings. Good MO guys, who keep shabbos and kosher, are hard to come by. They’ve either flipped out, gone OTD, or “keep shabbos” (i.e., go to shul sometimes, go to shabbos lunch, bring their phones in their pockets…)
    Luckily I got me a good one and we’re on the same page religiously. But before I did, I seriously considered expanding my dating pool to guys who really did not keep shabbos the way most of us would define doing so.

    • Hayyim `Ovadya

      1a. Why limit it to MO? The “example” (I assumed that it was satire, but who knows these days) identified herself as MO “machmir,” but she didn’t say that she was limited to MO. I mean, if she’s just looking for shomer Shabbat guy, I hear that there’s a shortage of women in many hassidic communities.

      1b. Even limiting it to MO, what, there are no single males at YU (or YCT)? I also would think that the “lax” guys would be “MO-lite” types and that a self-identified MO “machmir” wouldn’t necessarily identify with that more than with the “Yeshivish Modern” crowd, but I could be wrong on that point since I’m a relative outsider to the inner workings of these communities.

      2. Do you mean “Good MO guys, who [also] keep shabbos and kosher,” or “Good MO guys, [meaning, guys] who keep shabbos and kosher”? I think that you’re making the point conveyed by the first formulation, which is a fair one, but Heshy’s post seems to the expressing the second formulation (see, e.g., “I’m also looking for a guy that only needs to meet one specific thing”), in which case I think that my original comment (mostly) stands.

    • http://yeshivaforum.wordpress.com OfftheDwannaB

      I liked it.

    • OTD chick

      Bring their phones in there pockets?!?!?!?! I wouldn’t even do that! and I don’t consider myself observant (as you can see by my name). The thing is that there are a ton of us closet OTDs.

      There are people who think they are keeping Shabbos but they use the microwave and lights… after all… they didn’t drive and they went to shul and meals….

      At least I know I’m wrong.

  • Frum Jewish Taxpayer

    The missing information (assuming this isn’t all satirical), is where she is from and if she will relocate. Keeping Shabbos is more facilitated in a metropolitan city with lots of other people and places that keep shabbos, in the vicinity. Though doable elsewhere too, of course.

    There would be a large pool of shomer shabbat single guys about 30 who are “modern orthodox machmir” in metro areas like New York City, and very small pools of these guys outside of metro areas.
    (just check a free frumster search for example, and anyone can see what I’m talking about).

    The fact that the person seems so frustrated, AND she leaves out any mention of where she is geographically, leads me to suspect . . . satire.

    • SumFratire

      This is pretty clearly a satirical response to people who said that the guys using hotness as a sin qua non for dating are shallow. The writer’s reasoning seems to be “replace ‘hotness’ with ‘shomer shabbos’ and nobody thinks its shallow, so what’s wrong with requiring hotness?”. As I stated above, I think its poor reasoning.

      • Seriously??

        It is not a good fit, but at least one can *choose* mitzvos. We cannot completely control appearance.

    • OTD chick

      The problem is that guys want girls much younger than themselves. If she is approaching 30, they will offer her 45+. That’s disgusting!

  • mr

    hey there, you can always contact me…….i think ur cute

  • ???? ???????

    No that’s not enough. You need to know if he only eats chassidishe shechita or lowers himself to glatt, his yichus, whether or not He says yechi hamelech, supports eretz yiro’el, etc. He can’t be thát frum if he DATES a MO women. Tsk. Tsk. Tsk. You’re a career girl. May He have mercy on you. Omayn.

  • ???? ???????

    *yisro’el

  • ???? ???????

    *woman

  • ???? ???????

    ???? ???????

  • Dan

    If that’s her, I’m game.

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dra_Sit3Hjk ari

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dra_Sit3Hjk

    Please check out this movie 1 minute I made about the singles scene. I think you’ll find that it is a very good piece to stimulate discussion about shidduchim today.

    I’d love if you could post the video and spread it around the web!
    Thanks!
    ari

  • Kate

    SHOULD CHRISTIANS KEEP THE SABBATH?

    • Anonymous

      Who cares what Christians keep?

  • Like a somebody…

    Who the eff cares what Christians keep? And no, they’re prohibited because they are goyim.

    • ghottistyx

      Would you go into a 7th Day Adventist church and tell them this?

  • Like a somebody…

    Most definitely. :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

  • Like a somebody…

    Wait…why would I go to a church in the first place?

  • JG

    I assume this is a satirical point to say, “look, if that post were about keeping Shabbat, no one would say it’s shallow.” Of course they wouldn’t, because it’s not. What a terrible argument.

    The original post (“Are There Any Hot Girls Reading This”) was not shallow because it only named one baseline criterion for a shidduch; it was shallow because of what that criterion was–namely hotness. That’s a poor litmus test for a partner for many reasons. On the other hand, wanting to find a partner who shares important goals and values is not shallow. It’s not the number of criteria, but the content.