≡ Menu

Is orthodox Judaism sexist?

Of course it’s sexist by today’s lackluster ethical morally depraved standards, we have dropped so far down the moral scale in the last 50 years that anything remotely reeking of religion is automatically shoved into the sexist closet. Ever since Kennedy decided not to wear a hat in office (he wore one at the inauguration) this country has taken a slide to the ancient ways of sodom and gemorah, so based on our societies standards orthodoxy is most definitely sexist.

Take a look at our religion, it was created by men for men, women just seem to be a by product for which they have a few commandments thrown in, but most of traditional Judaism is about keeping the women at bay (because of the high sex drives of men) so women pay for the faults of men by being shoved aside and told that any thoughts they have of doing anything more than they are told is from an evil source and therefore assur. Beyond this, women are told that anything they want to do out of the normal realm will cause men to sin and therefore the women suffer, not the men. Is that sexist? By ancient standards it was pretty much the norm, but society has changed, we have given the women the right to vote – very untznius because now once a year they leave the kitchen and are seen in public buildings everywhere.

All Charedi publications crop photos and try to banish women from their pages, even Binah Magazine which is a woman’s magazine features no pictures of women, God forbid the husband find it and have evil thoughts over Elishevas deli roll recipe. I don’t know if it’s sexist, what on earth is sexist about choosing not to show pictures of women, it is more like a fantasy that if we don’t show women, they won’t get us to sin – because all sinning must involve a woman.

Then again, I’m kind of down with the different roles excuse that Judaism tends to give for reasons why woman don’t do certian things (most of the cool stuff) Women do have different roles, I mean they have babies and all we have to do is poke them a couple of times, deal with their drama and hold their hand (if you’re really frummy there will be no hand holding due to niddah – that’s for another post) I’m actually being serious – women do have different roles, but that doesn’t mean they can’t long for the things they don’t have – yet if they do they are deemed as a feminist with no true intentions – now that’s sexist!

Aren’t all religions sexist, they were all created during periods of time where women were second class citizens, slavery was celebrated and women were viewed as property, heck we still view them as real estate with benefits. Our excuse is that the women are on a higher spiritual level, hence the reason they don’t “need” to do certian things, but that’s probably why they want to do those things – they are higher spiritually and actually want to roll out of bed and go to shachris – so what’s the problem with that? Yet orthodoxy maintains that it is a problem because it’s done for the wrong reasons, but who cares, it’s not a sin – if anything it’s a mitzvah because it helps with their relationship to Hashem.

I should mention that Judaism itself probably wouldn’t have been as sexist if it were created in modern times, could you imagine what it would have been like if some of the great female minds were involved in Rabbinical law – all of which talks about women causing men to sin and their duties, but none of the great sages were women and hence we never get the female view. I would absolutely love to see some brilliant halachic response written by some frum ladies, I always wonder why frum ladies just focus on sex and shidduchim – I know there are some brilliant talmudic minds out there.

Look, if something is against halacha that’s one thing, but the problem with orthodoxy is that it has become much more social than halachic. I’m still not actually sure if photo shopping Hillary out was actually sexist? Or just classic social charedi.

We have to remember that all ancient religions are considered sexist by today’s standards, but is orthodoxy systemically sexist or is it just a periodically based thing?

{ 186 comments… add one }
  • LOL May 16, 2011, 2:30 PM

    That is all I have to say. LOL.

  • FFB-OTD-BBO May 16, 2011, 2:31 PM

    It’s all done to prevent mixed dancing. DUH.

  • The jewish teen May 16, 2011, 2:41 PM

    I agree 100% percent. It’s sexist in today’s society, with today’s standards. The problem is today’s standards suck.

    • Heshy Fried May 16, 2011, 10:47 PM

      So I take it you want to go back to the pre-slavery days

  • daniel May 16, 2011, 3:05 PM

    it really is sexist, but i don’t think it’s completely intentional it’s more like “we’ve done it this way for a long time, and we’re not going to change it”. that’s why i think it’s important to have a division between halakah and tradition. for example, not shaving the corners of your head, that’s halakah. peyos, that’s tradition. i’m not saying we should always throw tradition out the window, but when tradition causes us to treat people in a manner that is no longer socially acceptable, it needs to be thrown out.

    women do have roles that they have to perform, such as going to the mikvah when they’re niddah, and birthing children those things are physically impossible for a man to do. but that doesn’t mean that they should be restricted to those things they should be allowed to do whatever they wish to do, just like anyone else. and when it comes to the term “allowed” i also think that’s unfair it’s not our (men’s) decision to “give” them their rights. they are human beings too and can do whatever they please and if what they are doing is to please G-d, i think it’s a sin to get in their way.

    • ksil May 17, 2011, 7:01 AM

      “weve done it this way for a long time, and were not going to change it”

      the rabbis change things all the time….for some reason, when it comes to women – they move in reverse. change, but wrong direction!

  • Yankel May 16, 2011, 3:14 PM

    You forgot one thing. Can you please define “sexist”?

  • Sharona May 16, 2011, 3:38 PM

    The laws of Torah themselves are not. Individuals though can be sometimes if they abuse things. The laws are suppose to help us women keep our dignity and respect like through tznius for example. Sometimes though, people take things too far, that it looks negative, like not having any pics of women in a paper even if tznius.

    Also, the way Torah views us women and the way individuals view us might be different. The Torah views us as being on a high spiritual level. We are strong, understanding, and the builder of the next generation.
    People might get carried away with certain things and cause a negative impression and that’s Not good. We, both Men and Women, should just do what we need to do and try to make a good impact on our community.
    SIDENOTE. While the laws of niddah are hard, they still help a couple to refresh their relationship, while building it beyond the physical so it will still be strong later. Plus, if they breaks the rules of niddah, then the man’s soul is cut off, it’s like he’s spiritually dead. He would have to do a very sincere teshuva. Best to avoid this mistake. It’s like if a person makes his friend lose his job, but then finds him another one. Best to not let it happen in the first place.

    • BB May 17, 2011, 5:23 AM

      “while building it beyond the physical so it will still be strong later.”
      Later than what?

  • anon May 16, 2011, 3:54 PM

    It’s such a lie that laws of niddah improve a relationship. Almost all of the couples I know fight more during this time. And there are true stories of fum men who go to prostitutes when their wives are niddah.

    Some laws of Torah are definitely sexist, some are neutral. But the main problem is that the laws have been standardized by MEN. Everything we keep now has been interpreted & sifted through mens’ minds. There’s no doubt in my mind that if women had been consulted, things would be a lot different. (And that tired story that women asked for niddah to be longer – don’t buy it.)

    Just look at the attitude when girls want to study gemara, or women want to learn on Shavuot — there is always a big stink made when these subjects come up!

    • FrunGer May 17, 2011, 11:25 AM

      100% wrong- those men that do that would have done it anyway. they are not trully torah Jews anyway, they are phoneys. Taharas hamishpaca is a GREAT thing for relationships infact if you use the laws of tnuis correctly than becoming desensitized with your wife is not nearly as much of a problem! Every relationship therepist agrees that keeping mystery/ not getting too familiar is the best thing for marrages. the laws are awesome for a marriage.

  • Aliza T. May 16, 2011, 4:11 PM

    whether the original religion was sexist or not (although i would say it was, seeing as everything back then was, i mean come on eve gets adam to sin right in the beginning showing how women lead to sin.)(and all these folktales about how its holy to not look at women. uh thats kinda the definition of sexist!) is irrelevant seeing as todays ortho judaism is 1000% totally sexist!!! Judaism (particularly today) views us as walking, talking cheeseburgers (read: temptations) which need to be avoided like any other temptations.

    • devil May 17, 2011, 6:33 PM

      “cheeseburgers”- yep, you sure are all juicy and tasty, qand we cant have any of it till we get the rabbis blessing

  • Aliza T. May 16, 2011, 4:20 PM

    The short answer: YES!!!!
    In longer form: Acc. to judaism, The original sin is the source of all these problems in the world and why the human race were forced to this lowly existence outside of paradise. this was of course caused by eve causing adam to sin. so the very first lesson in the torah is that women are a temptation to be avoided except when necessary (read:for childbirth) kinda like walking, talking cheeseburgers, just much more crafty. especially todays totally overboard judaism. the idea is that women are basically the source of all sin and if a guy even sees you he’ll go crazy. its totally absurd!!!! we are viewed as property!!!! HELLO!!! so yeah i think so. i dont see how you can say its not; when it clearly views women as inferior. if this junk would’ve been made up today it wouldnt look like this, just reflecting the views of the time.

    • LOL May 16, 2011, 5:03 PM

      Is your name Lilith? Because you sound like her.

      Judaism doesn’t say women are the source of all sin. It says sexuality and temptation are a major cause of sin, and women are pretty. It just so happens that men are pigs and women are not. If women were as easy to entice with sexual behavior as men are, then there would be equal rules about men being super tzanua and being a cause for evil. But women are better than men in this regard. And as a man, I can say so. We suck at it. If you don’t believe me, watch any stand-up comedy skit.

      That Adam blamed his wife is considered a mark against him, not a fact-of-life that women are the devil.

      I heard a story on TV about an American who asked a muslim woman how she feels about the fact that she cant walk outside without her head covered. She responded by asking how he feels about the fact that you cant sell a hammer in the US without using a naked woman. Essentially, she was saying that the rules arent oppressive, they are there to protect and not devalue her, because society will (and did) do that.

      To be honest, I agree that women are not equal in Judaism. Thats what happens when you have halachos that are solidified 2,000 years ago. I challenge folks to see which of the ‘oppressive’ rules are from the torah and which are from chazal. With the exception of marriage, I dont think many are from the torah. Perhaps if chazal lived today they would have made different ‘fences’. Who knows?

    • daniel May 16, 2011, 5:25 PM

      i don’t think “original sin” is part of judaism according to anyone isn’t that a christian concept?

      • BB May 17, 2011, 5:27 AM

        Original sin is a Christian, not a Jewish, precept.

        • Eli May 18, 2011, 10:30 AM

          It’s plenty Jewish. The Kabbalists explicitly refer to Adam’s sin degrading the world and mankind (womankind?) into an imperfect state. The RaMCHaL (R’ Luzzato) uses it to explain many questions.

          • Ansy May 19, 2011, 9:50 AM

            that doesnt make it an authentically jewish concept – ramchal lived 300 years ago, kind of a drop in the bucket of our history. many of the kabbalists were in the time of the Arizal and Beis Yosef (~500-600 years ago).

            plus the mere fact that it only comes up in those contexts shows that its not pashtus. Original sin was a christian concept way before it showed up in yiddishe theology in any respect.

            plus, as LOL pointed out, Adam’s placing the blame on Chava was a mark against him (the mepharshim vilify Adam as kofer tov – an ingrate) – see rashi in bereishis perek 3 pasuk 12.

            • Eli May 19, 2011, 12:57 PM

              I’m ready to accept that it’s a more modern aspect, but I define Judaism is it’s practiced and understood today – and I have heard a number of shiurim refer to the basic premise, of course not using the terms “original sin”, but the equivalent. I have trouble limit Judaism to only the “authentic” version, because how does one define authentically Jewish – how many years does one have to go in history for it to be “authentic”?

              • Guest August 29, 2011, 2:03 PM

                The Ramchal is not the only one to suggest such a thing, and in tractate Avodah Zara one can find concepts that view humanity after the Garden of Eden as existing in a fallen state. In Christianity the notion of original sin was often employed to argue that humanity cannot rise above its spiritually fallen state, and as such belief in JC is the only answer.

                Judaism has never subscribed to such a notion of people being irretrievable wicked, and incapable of finding personal “salvation” through the exercise of their own free choice. ,But there are certainly views that humanity started off on a lower rung after Adam and Eve.

  • A. Nuran May 16, 2011, 4:34 PM

    Of course it is. But that has no bearing on whether it’s true.

  • Avi Stavsky May 16, 2011, 5:02 PM

    Is orthodox Judaism sexist? That’s like asking, “is the Pope Catholic”?

  • Avi Stavsky May 16, 2011, 5:20 PM

    Huh? Is the Pope Catholic?

  • ZoomZoom May 16, 2011, 5:20 PM

    Something wrong with sexist?

  • OfftheDwannaB May 16, 2011, 6:10 PM

    There is definitely a difference between men’s and women’s blogs. I would like to see more women discussing issues other than dating and cooking. We have a thousand guys saying what they think women have to say about x,y and z, and about 3 women actually sating something about it.

    • Michaltastik May 16, 2011, 8:22 PM

      I hope you’re counting me as a woman blogger that blogs about something other than dating or cooking. However, I find that when I do, I get nasty comments left on my blog. Whereas, people are happy to read my blog posts about dating and cooking.

      • OfftheDwannaB May 16, 2011, 8:49 PM

        Yeah, you have some real stuff on there. I liked that Israeli news video.

    • Heshy Fried May 16, 2011, 10:51 PM

      Have you ever read Boker Tov Boulder or Atlas Shrugged – gosh darn it you’re right – women do like to talk about dating and food a lot.

      • FrumGer May 17, 2011, 11:39 AM

        Dude, Ayn Rand F*cking Sucks- She is just a shitty writer. Try Orville Wells… he described perfectly what she wished she could have- in half the pages.
        typical woman- too long winded and doesnt even make a point.
        Women Talmud Chochim?! Pah!
        imagine learning teshuva and seferim written by women- even Reb Moshe’s eyes would cross..

        • A. Nuran May 17, 2011, 12:02 PM

          If Ayn Rand sucked she’d be good for something. John Rogers said it best:

          There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year olds life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.

          • FrumGer May 18, 2011, 10:25 AM

            Wow. All I can Say is YES..

      • OfftheDwannaB May 17, 2011, 5:52 PM

        Never saw that Boker Tov Boulder blog before, just checked it out, pretty good.

        But the point I’m making is a general one. In general, women don’t write about world events. Yes, you’ll have individual blogs, but it’s not the majority. Women’s blogs generally follow the pattern of speaking about ‘eat, pray, love’, in that order.

      • OfftheDwannaB May 17, 2011, 5:57 PM

        My comments are recently being sent to spam. i don’t know why.

  • Rabbi Dr Ed Goldstein May 16, 2011, 6:44 PM

    If you didn’t have your tongue firmly in your cheek when you wrote this, then there is something seriously wrong. I can’t decide which offends me more: your belief that President Kennedy not wearing a hat (gentlemen don’t wear them indoors) was a slide towards immorality; or your belief that all women are good for is childbearing. There are lots of bright, clear minds out there in women’s bodies; frumkeit and a need to keep YOUR sex drive in control have kept them from expression. I’d love to buy you a one way ticket back to the dark ages you were plucked from. BTW, I make a deli roll every week and my body is nothing to gush over. LOL

    • Heshy Fried May 16, 2011, 10:52 PM

      You must be new here – you do realize you have to read everything I say with the belief that I’m screwing around or being very sarcastic – as was the case with this post.

      • devil May 17, 2011, 6:39 PM

        heshy, i dont think you realized his title “rabbi dr”. say a lot about his sentiments. ego

  • ki sarita May 16, 2011, 6:46 PM

    clearly you haven’t been reading too many women’s blogs. You can start off with OTD’s blogroll.

  • Kochavim May 16, 2011, 7:02 PM

    It’s a balancing act. My mother is a huge Feminist (capital “f”). My BT brother’s first question to an orthodox rabbi was “why don’t you treat women the same as men?!” Looking back, it’s quite funny, because that was literally the first question he asked. Now, I ain’t no big strong man who can lift a ton or run a marathon, I’ll admit it. I’m a 5’3″ girl who can hold her own, yet it just isn’t the same. But to this “modern community” in which Heshy speaks, I hate to inform you… but those biology books *whispers* it says we are, erm, eh… “different” too! I hope that’s not offensive though. I’d hate to have to buy a medical textbook that is not-sexist… I can see it now… stick figures! So, sameness and justice aren’t synonymous. And Judaism is biased towards men. But, I find that on entering the orthodox community I am seen as more different, true, but also more justly treated. Example: The Ketubah (we women just love that marriage talk.) It protect women. Yay us! One point for Judaism. Now, only the men can get a Get (bias anyone?)… but in all fairness they can’t be expected to outlive all of us! 😉

  • Michaltastik May 16, 2011, 8:31 PM

    In answer to the title question, yes Orthodox Judaism is sexist. It’s funny when I was joining up, I voiced this concern on several occasions. While they state that they don’t want converts, they always tried to reassure me, “no, no, we believe that women are on a higher madrega than men” BULL$HIT! “therefore, women are exempt from doing things the men need to do.”

    yada yada YAAAAAAAA

    • BB May 17, 2011, 5:29 AM

      therefore, women are exempt from doing things the men need to do.

      But when you are 9 1/2 months preggers, you WILL be glad you do not have to make 5:30 am minyan. Trust me on this.

      • BB May 17, 2011, 5:32 AM

        PS- It would be a lot easier to, er, accept, the different but equal stance if the men said a different brocha from “shelo asani isha” every morn.

  • Michaltastik May 16, 2011, 8:33 PM

    I think my commment went into spam

    🙁

  • ari May 16, 2011, 9:28 PM

    IF THE TORAH WAS WRITTEN BY MAN THEN IT IS SEXIST. IF IT WAS WRITTEN BY GOD THEN IT IS NOT. IF A MAN IS TO WRITE A BOOK THAT CLEARLY STATES HOW A WOMAN ROLE IS TO STAY IN THE KITCHEN AND TAKE CARE OF THE CHILDREN, BECAUSE SHE IS NOT COMPETENT ENOUGH TO WORK, THEN THAT IS HORRIBLY SEXIST. IF IT WAS WRITTEN BY GOD, THEN THESE CLAIMS MUST BE TRUE, BECAUSE AFTER ALL HE IS GOD, AND THEREFOR NOT SEXIST.

    • Dan May 16, 2011, 11:23 PM

      stop yelling

    • daniel May 17, 2011, 2:34 AM

      HI! NICE TO SEE YOU OVER THERE! CAN YOU HEAR ME?

      ANYWAY, WHAT I WAS GOING TO SAY IS THAT ORTHODOX JUDAISM DOESN’T NECESSARILY EQUAL TORAH OBSERVANCE. YES, WE OBSERVE ALL TORAH LAW, BUT WE ALSO OBSERVE OTHER TRADITIONS THAT ARE VERY SEXIST THAT WERE MADE BY US, NOT G-D. WE HAVE TO RECOGNIZE THAT THERE IS A DIFFERENCE.

      OH, BY THE WAY, JUST BECAUSE I’M 500 MILES AWAY DOESN’T MEAN YOU HAVE TO YELL TO ME. WE HAVE THE INTERNET. THANKS.

    • ksil May 17, 2011, 7:12 AM

      where does it say in torah these things about women?

      • Yankel May 17, 2011, 10:54 AM

        “Kol kevodo bas melech penima” – ALL of the honor of a bas melech (Jewess) is to remain concealed [from public view].

        The Talmud states in many instances, that women are incapable of certain things, which in turn invalidates them for many other things.

        If you’d like I can go into detail, but you probably wouldn’t like.

        • Shlomo is at Shul May 17, 2011, 1:04 PM

          If there is one thing that just drives me up a wall with today’s “frum culture” is how they take some verse from tanach that is allegorical, general and not written as a commandment, and base their whole culture and social relations around it. You don’t even translate the verse accurately (you must work for Artscroll!!). A more accurate translation is “all of the honor of a daughter of a king is internal.” What the bleep does that have to do with tsnius? On the other hand, there are such explicit commandments in the torah that nobody seems to pay much attention to. Like in parshat kedoshiim it says you cannot hold a worker’s wages overnight. When was the last time you saw some guy running down the street trying to pay his worker before nightfall? But there are thousands of guys that would flip if a women walked down their street sleeveless. It just seems that things have gotten so out of whack in terms of what is emphasized in the frum community today. The reason for that? In my opinion it is because it is neurotic, obsessive men who are making all the rules for these communities. If they weren’t neurotic and obsessive they wouldn’t be so affected by (or care so much about) what women do, wear, how they act. Just one last point. You know how it lists in Viyikra all of the forbidden sexual relationships (“do not uncover your father’s nakedness, the wife of your father, the daughter of your mother’s husband etc”)? Well, if the torah was so much against pre-marital sex, why did it need to list a dozen kind of forbidden sexual relationships when all it needed to say was “do not have sex with a women who is not your wife”? Think about it.

          • Aliza T. May 17, 2011, 2:26 PM

            Exactly!!! you hit the nail on the head. even if the torah is divine and true (not the topic of discussion) the current judaism we have today is just a creation of rabbis. if God wanted that stuff he coulda just said it. BINGO! Rabbis controlling just like their radical cousins over in Islam

            • Shlomo is at Shul May 17, 2011, 2:29 PM

              Rock on Aliza T!!

          • Yankel May 18, 2011, 7:03 AM

            I could try to explain to you why you’re clueless on the topic (apparently among many others, including the general concept of Judaism), but you seem way too emotionally charged to think logically.

            To simplify it as much as possible, you’re terribly krum. Your questions, assertions, and conclusions all make no sense, and can be applied to virtually any topic, and used to say anything anyone wants.

            Agav, you seem to lack even the very basics as to how Halacha, the oral Torah, and the written Torah all work together.

            • Shlomo is at Shul May 18, 2011, 7:42 AM

              Not clueless my friend. I just am thinking for myself and applying logic and reasoning. I know how halacha works. What I think you are missing is that there is a difference between oral torah (like what are tefillin, since the torah gives only the vaguest details) and interpretations of the torah (like saying Kol kevodo bas melech penima means women have to dress in the style of 17th century Poland). One simple question- why does every yeshiva guy wear those big black hats? Does it say someplace in the Torah that men are supposed to wear hats with gigantic brims and that they must be black? NO! This is a mishigas that has taken on a life of its own based on some notion that it says somewhere that one must wear a hat before a king (ie god). So why don’t these fellas wear derbys. or top hats? You would think there was a whole gemara devoted to the size of the hat, the shape, the color etc. Just an example of the misplaced emphasis that the frum community places on these things. What I am advocating is a Judaism that is true to the torah, not to some 19th or 20th century interpretation by eastern European rabbis.

              • Yankel May 18, 2011, 10:18 AM

                Hats are an invented meshugas? Ok, how do you explain the Mishna Berurah which states “One must wear a hat [even] for birchas ha’mazon”?
                Or the Meiri which says it is a chiyuv for tefillah?

                I wouldn’t call it “misplaced emphasis”, I would say you just missed the point. In our day, wearing a black hat (more than anything else) puts a person in a category. It’s a statement which says “I believe in the Torah, and its supremacy over everything else in our existance”.

                Whether or not one manages to apply this ideal to every situation throughout life, is irrelevant to the actual category one belongs to.

                I think the difficulty you have with the hat thing, is the fact that you don’t belong to that category. It actually makes sense that you would resent them and try to kvetch out all kinds of non-sensical ways to say how (who would have thought) you keep the Torah and they don’t.

                Just out of curiosity, since you seem to think you know better than the “19th and 20th century eastern European Rabbis”, (being that you at least put up a facade of being an observant Jew) who do you admit without any reservations, knows better than you?
                Gimme a Rishon, Acharon, Taana, Amorah someone anyone, that is privileged enough that you “Hold of him”.

                You sound Sephardi, so I’m expecting the Ben Ish Chai, or Chida, or at the very least the Rambam.

                • Shlomo is at Shul May 18, 2011, 12:49 PM

                  Oh, I see. Only people who wear big black hats are frum. That would mean that most modern orthodox rabbis are not observant. Now I see how it works!

                  • Shlomo is at Shul May 18, 2011, 12:57 PM

                    Somebody once told me– never argue with a true believer, because whatever you tell them, they will never be persuaded. How right that person was!

                • Yankel May 19, 2011, 7:18 AM

                  Somebody can be frum and not believe the Torah to be superior to all of existance.

                  Furthermore, you can be frum, believe in the superiority of the Torah, and not wear cloths which make a statement about what you believe.

                  Again, I’m very curious to know how you could possibly think you are an observant Jew, and at the same time disregard the poskim which the Jewish nation follow and have followed.

                  I see you trying to change the subject to black hats, 17th century womens dress, artscroll, believers, and whatnot, but I’m not going to go for it. (Ironic that you spew an entire rant of illogical and wholly ignorant cliche “I hate frummies who are better than me” rhetoric, and then accuse others of being irrational.)

                  So you might as well skip all the drama and just answer the question: How are you frum if you have a different version of the Torah then Orthodox Jewry?

                  • Shlomo is at Shul May 19, 2011, 8:35 AM

                    You posit a very narrow definition of “frum” and then ask me how I fit into that definition. If “frum” means black hats, emphasis on tsnius, a sepearation of men and women (and boys and girls), lack of secular studies and minute attention to every detail of every ritual practice, then count me out 100%. If frum means shabbos, kashrut, teffilin, being a model of ethics and responsibility to others, being non-judgmental of others that are also non-judgmental, understanding Jewish history, support of Israel and what is generally referred to as “torah vmadah”, then I hope I reach that ideal. You see the difference between folks like you and me is that I don’t have 100% confidence that I know how god wants us to behave in every aspect of life- some things are clearer than others. It is this lack of certainty that keeps me searching and also keeps me from being part of any group that claims to have a monopoly on god’s desires and plans.

                    • Yankel May 19, 2011, 9:18 AM

                      More meaningless gibberish….

                      I don’t either claim to know exactly how G-d wants me to act down to the smallest detail. But I do know the basic frame, and it’s called Halacha.

                      If you take a stance which requires that you disagree with people who know a very great deal more than you do, you cannot call yourself responsible, regardless of the subject.

                      You don’t know more than the Gra, the Ba’al Hatanya, the Chasam Sofer, or the Mishna Berurah (just to name a few), all of whom were “Eastern European Rabbis”.

                      So for you and your peabrain to think up a way of how “G-d wants me to act” when it opposes what they have already instructed, is simply you fooling yourself into believing that you really give a flip about G-d or his Torah.

                      I think you should go for the gold. The Karites had a similar mentality to you, why don’t you read up on them a little.

                    • Shlomo is at Shul May 19, 2011, 10:37 AM

                      Name calling is always and effective intellectual response. You must have attended at least three Ivy league grad schools to be able to respond with such a coherent analysis. Let me try this–I am not a doctor so I would never tell a surgeon how to perform surgery. But that does not mean I cannot have legitimate views on a doctors prescription for me. A doctor once told a friend that he needed to have his legs amputated because he had deep infections. My friend said no and it turned out that these “deep infections” healed on their own. My point is that the rabbis whose names you cite certainly knew their torah, way better than me for sure. But they did not live my life nor do they know anything about the science, math, history and literature that I know. So they can certainly opine with validity about how much matzah one should consume on pesach or what bracha to make on a given occasion, but I don’t think it gives them the carte blanche that you give them. Finally, you use the word “halacha” as if it were a monolithic, finite thing. In fact, there is great variation, even among Orthodox rabbis, on many important halachic questions, so “haalacha” is not how you and your rabbis define it in every case.

    • Moone May 21, 2011, 9:14 PM

      Correct! Well said

  • Rivkah May 17, 2011, 2:09 AM

    Hi Heshy:)
    lol, today, i happened to take a siddur with English translation, and whilst flicking through, something caught my eye. In Pirkei Avot is says that rabbi Yossay ben Yochanan of Jerusalem(could be wrong with the name) said; a man should not indulge excessively in conversation with a woman, and one who does so, earns purgatory. This seems sexist, but in regards to women preforming men’s mitzvot, i don’t think feminism is relevant, and i speak a s a 16 year old girl.

    One problem i have with all this sexist stuff, is why do women feel that our role is somehow less than a man’s roles, just because it’s different? It’s a very simple attitude to hold, it demonstrates a lack of understanding of the torah, and of general principles by which we live. The words separate but equal have a stigma attached to them from the way they were used in 1960’s America. I believe in this case, they are relevant.

    my point is WHY?????
    why do Women want to preform all the mitzvot only men are obligated to do, and shirk their own mitzvot? What makes our mitzvot less valid?

    I doubt any woman who puts on tephillin can give me a logical, reasonable reason why they do it. The majority of these women are terribly sexist about men as well, because unfortunately we live in a society where one prejudice is replaced by another for some reason.

    • Carmel Tziona April 2, 2012, 12:39 PM

      I’m a 13-year old Reform Jewish English Jew[ess]. I put on tefillin. This is because, in the Shema, it tells me to. Simple as.

  • John May 17, 2011, 5:15 AM

    I for one believe women and men are exactly the same, it is $exist to think otherwise. Both are capable of getting pregnant, both have monthly fluctuations in various hormones which all tend to drop of towards the end of the month. There is absolutely no difference between Men and women, not on a physical level, not on a genetic level, not on an emotional level, and certainly not on a mental level. Who cares if some Geneticists or researchers assert otherwise, they and anyone who agrees with them is $exist!

    • Shlomo is at Shul May 17, 2011, 8:21 AM

      Just because there are these physical differences, why does that mean the two sexes need to be treated differently? Some people are black, some are white and some speak Chinese. Should we assign them different roles because of these physical differences?

      • John May 17, 2011, 12:00 PM

        “Need to be”? it doesnt. Though at the end of the day men and women are different (some researchers are now saying that the difference between men and women is more than that between blacks and whites though the jury is still out on that.) My point is you can pretend all you want that were all the same, but youd be deceiving yourself.
        you ask “should we assign them (blacks vs whites) different roles because of their differences?” No, though Im not sure what planet you live on, on my planet there are different roles assigned to them, again you can pretend that they dont exist and argue that they shouldnt but youd again be deceiving yourself.
        Lastly you are missing a premise of this conversation the question is “Is Orthodox Judaism $exist” Ostensibly because of the different roles assigned to men and women. However a premise of Orthodox Judaism is that it is all gods will (if you reject that premise, and cant even accept it for arguments sake then the whole question is moot, forget “Is orthodx judaism $exist” $exist is the least of its problems the whole thing is crazy and built on cultish fantasy). On the other hand If you accept (again, if at least for arguments sake) that there is a god who created the world, and created men and women with all the differences between them, it is not that hard to take the leap that he assigned them different roles as well.

        • Shlomo is at Shul May 17, 2011, 12:44 PM

          The problem, Mr. John, with your reasoning is that you assume to know what is “god’s will.” Unless it is stated unambiguously in the torah that men and women should be treated differently IN THE FASHION THAT THEY ARE IN TODAY’S ORTHODOXY, then you can’t claim to know what is “god’s will.” Do you really believe that a group that consisted only of men can accurately discern “god’s will” when it comes to matters of what roles men and women should play in society? There is no evidence that the roles of women in the tanach were as different as the roles are today. Rebekkah went to the well to get water, not her father or brother. There are numerous examples like this. Oh yeah, and what are these different roles that are assigned to black and white people in the planet you live on?

          • John May 17, 2011, 1:03 PM

            Rebekah going to the well thats your best example? Fiiiiiiiiiiiine girls can go shopping in the local store, I concede you have proven me and all of orthodoxy wrong. Deborah would have been a better example, though youd have to concede that 1 Leader out of all the shoftim, kings hardly counts as the “equality” you imagine exists in tanach. Keep in mind by the way, that “gods will” according to orthodx theology isnt limited to tanach it includes the mishna and gemara as well. Im sorry if that wasnt clear.
            As for your last question well were to begin, on my planet the nba is dominated by blacks, the senate is dominated by whites. More blacks than whites are in jail. whites earn more than blacks for the same job. Whites are more likely to get a degree. Need I go on? Im not saying this has anything to do with inherent differences between whites and blacks, just that they are not asinged the same roles as you so naively belive. at least not on my planet (sadly). Whats it like where you live? Maybe we can get some fair minded people to move there and everybody will be the same! Yay! Of course we’d have to figure out how to get Men to carry babies, but hey seahorses can do it!
            At any rate, Race is waaay beside my point, for as Ive said some researchers are now saying that the differences between men and women are more than that between whites and blacks. Do you think otherwise?

            • Shlomo is at Shul May 17, 2011, 2:25 PM

              What I’m saying is that there are differences between everybody. Those differences will make it more likely that somebody will become a farmer, another an astronaut and another a milkman. But there is a huge difference between what people become, or what choices they make, and assigning roles to people based on these differences. It’s as if somebody said– you are good at math, therefore you must be a mathematician. If we dictate to people the lives they must lead based on who they are, then that is racist, sexist or whatever other prejudice you have.

              • John May 18, 2011, 4:15 AM

                Absolutly, if WE dictate that would be terrible. However its not racist that God made Blacks on average taller, or $exist that women better suited for carrying a fetus. There are roles outlined for the differnt $exes you can pretend they dont exist but as ive said youd be deciving yourself.

            • Aliza T. May 17, 2011, 2:35 PM

              I hate to do this but you dear sir are incapable of thinking for yourself. this is the exact stuff the rabbis say. let me ask you a question: do you have any idea WHY the races and genders aren’t equal? its because we’re still evolving out a an extremely unequal society. We couldn’t even vote a few years ago obviously its not equal yet. blacks just got their rights as well and things get more equal every year, obviously they’re still incarcerated more than whites. as to your physiological point: (i cant believe you seriously wrote that) some people are taller than others i guess that makes them inherently different. some people have blond hair blue eyes… physiological differences mean nothing. do me a favor and start asking qquestions dont just accept everything your rabbis tell you

              • John May 17, 2011, 2:47 PM

                Um ok youre late to the conversation, ill bring you up to speed because im just that nice.
                Simple question: Are men and women the same?
                (we arent discussing race, that was just a poor attempt by shlomo to prove his point, so lets leave that out because it confuses things as youve made clear from your comment)
                So back to the question: Are men and women the same?
                And dont ask your Rabbi like i did since i cant think for myself, but really think for yourself perhaps look around do studies and lets get to the bottom of this since there are some $exists on this blog and in my shul who claim that men and wwomen are not the same, so id like an unbiased response from a free-thinker like you.
                Thanks
                Perhaps if the results surprise you, you can do a book report on it for your sociology class.

                • Neal May 17, 2011, 5:45 PM

                  John- let’s assume men and women are inherently different on all levels. It does not follow from that to assign roles to people and tell them that they cannot choose to do otherwise.

                  • John May 17, 2011, 5:58 PM

                    Neal, no argument there couldnt agree with you more. Though are you ASSUMING men and women are different, youre not certain?

                    • Neal May 17, 2011, 7:01 PM

                      No, I’m not certain that men are women are different in all areas. Would you also agree that to claim women must follow an assigned role based on the differences is sexist?

                    • John May 18, 2011, 4:11 AM

                      Im not sure if there is a typo in your comment (I never said “all areas”). If not Id be happy to help point out some of the differences between men and women.
                      As to your question: Not completly, for example I dont think asigning women the role of carrying a fetus to term and then nursing the child after is $exist.
                      My point is, if God created the world (a premise of this disscusion as ive explained earlier) including men and women, including the obvious great differences between them, it is not $exist to believe he assigned them different roles as well

    • FrumGer May 17, 2011, 11:41 AM

      Y’sher Koach

    • Tova May 19, 2011, 6:47 AM

      “both have monthly fluctuations in various hormones”

      That’s actually true. 🙂

      • John May 19, 2011, 8:29 AM

        No its not. You may be thinking of daily fluctuations, that is true.

  • BB May 17, 2011, 5:20 AM

    “because now once a year they leave the kitchen and are seen in public buildings everywhere.”

    Hey, here in NJ the wimmen get to leave the kitchen 4 or 5 times a year, because this benighted state has spearate elections for local municpalities, school boards, school budgets, primaries, and general elections.

    • Avrumy May 17, 2011, 10:26 AM

      Women stay home!!! Use an absentee ballot.

      • BB May 17, 2011, 10:38 AM

        Until this year, there was only one absentee ballot- for the general election (at least where I live; knowing NJ, it may not be universally available for the local and primary elections).

  • mike down undu May 17, 2011, 7:58 AM

    Hey, did you know the Jews invented planking. Thats right, every yom kippur we plank during avodah. The world thinks its a new fad, but weve been doing it for thousands of years

  • Catholic Mom May 17, 2011, 10:19 AM

    Kennedy did a lot of things that more resembled the activities of Sodom and Gemmorah than not wearing a hat. 🙂

    As far as “aren’t all ancient religions sexist.” No — ancient religions coming out of the near east are/were sexist. It seems to be something about the desert, Fortunately Christianity was more influenced by its Greek roots than its Jewish roots in this matter. Paul [a Jew] says “For there is neither male nor female, slave nor free, Greek nor Jews, but all are one in Christ Jesus” [that is, all these categories no longer matter to Christians] and then goes on to say that women have to cover their hair in church. [Middle eastern men apparently have something very weird going for hair.]

    The Greeks on the other hand, while certainly not granting women political rights, never developed any bizarre ideas about hair or elbows or men and women being physically segregated from one another. Therefore, while Islam and Judaism think very similarly on these matters, Christianity has very few of these concepts. Women don’t even cover their hair in church anymore because it’s been decided that Paul’s command was more in the way of a time-and-space limited cultural bias than an eternal requirement.

    • Anonymous May 17, 2011, 11:48 AM

      Thats so true! If I am correct I believe about half the popes were women as well as countless members of the clergy. After all its not like one of the pillars of Christianity is original sin and how women brought the falll of man

      • Catholic Mom May 18, 2011, 5:59 AM

        The leadership of the Catholic Church, like the leadership of every single organization in the known universe from the beginning of time until about 50 years ago, was male. However, there were always great women saints (and women scholars and writers of theology) who were held up as models for all Christians, not just women. Long before Protestant (or Jewish) women held any position above school ma’arm, Catholic nuns were running hospitals and entire school systems. Saint Elizabeth Seton founded the entire parochial school system in the United States (and that was after she raised a family of children and her husband died and she became a sister).

        As far as “Original Sin” the Church has always taught that that was the fault of Adam. As the old Puritan primer had it:

        By Adams fall
        We sinned all

        Of all the saints in the Catholic Church, Mary is by far the greatest. One of, if not *the* greatest point of contention between Catholic and Protestants is that Protestants accuse Catholics of worshiping Mary. It’s a reasonable argument when you consider how important Mary is in Catholicism.

  • MalachHamovies May 17, 2011, 11:19 AM

    Heshy,

    Check out this “hot” ad that was in the Jewish Observer 40 years ago.

    http://onthemainline.blogspot.com/2009/04/whatever-happened-to-1965.html

  • Yoreh K'chetz May 17, 2011, 12:12 PM

    “great female minds”???

    • A. Nuran May 18, 2011, 8:35 PM

      Why so surprised? Is your Little German Soldier required for thinking?

  • Rivki @ Life in the Married Lane May 17, 2011, 1:05 PM

    You know, I hadn’t realized how much I was chalishing to get up and go daven vasikin until I read this. That is definitely what my observance is missing…

  • Rivki @ Life in the Married Lane May 17, 2011, 1:06 PM

    Oh, and I just realized that I’m so frum that my picture isn’t on my avatar! Check it out!

  • Realistically Speaking May 17, 2011, 11:17 PM

    While I don’t believe with the notion that Judaism is a sexist religion, I do however believe that some of a practitioners are misogynistic in their views towards women.Sexism still exists. I think a lot of frummies carry that. I’ve seen modesty being used as a tool to manipulate women and deny them any rights or freedoms. I also think that some of the principles of Judaism and its views on women were influenced by Middle Eastern culture.Boys are more desired for children than girls are in most cases.Women are held to a higher modesty standard than men are. Girls have to rely on their fathers to find a suitable marriage partner for them while guys have more liberty to choose for themselves. I don’t demand that I should be part of a minyan. Nor should I get smicha.
    As a religious woman, I’ll admit that it bothers me that women cannot participate as witnesses. They can’t issue a Get either thus leaving them at the mercy of their abusive husbands who chain them. I am a firm believer of sex equality. Women should be entitled to the same social and individual rights as men are.

  • A. Nuran May 18, 2011, 2:47 AM

    Let’s see….

    A woman’s “whole honor” lies in being invisible.
    She isn’t permitted to do the one thing that a Jew’s life is supposed to revolve around.
    It’s forbidden for her to ever be in a position of authority or leadership over a man.
    She has no right to divorce.
    Primitive menstrual taboos mean she has disgusting blood magic that can taint men by simply touching or sitting on something the man later touches or sits on
    Her face, hair, even the sight of her elbow destroy men’s purity
    She’s surrounded by an ever-increasing number of hysterical taboos designed to make her completely invisible, voiceless, faceless
    The petty little Monarchs of Orthodoxy, the rabbis, are only men.
    According to the latest Williamsburg chumras she must step out of the way when the Possessor of a Dick walks by
    If she sleeps around she deserves to die
    If a man sleeps around he doesn’t deserve to die
    About a thousand other ones
    Her word is worthless
    She can never be a reliable witness
    Every day a man thanks his God for not being a goy, a woman or anything else icky and sub-standard.

    Of course the pious fools have a whole mental gymnastic routine to explain why none of these is actually $3xist. It’s all about “increased holiness” or to “protect” them or the catchall “modesty” or “Women should be judged for what they are, not what they look like” or “We’re just happy we have more commandments to follow. No offense meant, honest” or “They’re just different” or “Because God said so. Now shut up and make me a sammich, woman!”

    It’s all transparent nonsense to anyone who hasn’t already assumed his conclusions and jammed his fingers in his ears up to the wrist to avoid listening to anything he doesn’t want to hear.

    • Aliza T. May 18, 2011, 1:45 PM

      well said. i think the adultery thing is kinda irrefutable.

      • Yankel May 19, 2011, 9:54 AM

        Interesting how (despite it’s being false) this is the one that spoke to you.

        • Aliza T. May 19, 2011, 12:39 PM

          FALSE?!?!? if a married woman sleeps with a single man they get the death penalty (b/c shes the mans property) if a married man sleeps with a single woman they dont.

          • anon May 19, 2011, 12:44 PM

            So they are equal. In the first case BOTH get the death peanalty and in the second BOTH do not.
            Why did you switch sides earlier you addmited you were $exist, you said “women arent as strong as men” For shame!

          • Yankel May 19, 2011, 1:45 PM

            Oh sure there’s a death penalty, THEY get the death penalty, not HER. There’s a big difference between the distorted way Nuran presented it, and “Anyone involved with a married woman gets the death penalty.”

            “Property” is a term which isn’t properly translated from Lashon Kodesh to English in this use of the word. Besides, it doesn’t say anywhere that the reason for the death penalty is because of a property infringement. Even real theft (besides kidnapping and selling) doesn’t get death.

            All else aside, there are a hundred different reasons that one can think of for why these laws are the way they are, because we expect more of women, because they are naturally more loyal beings, because they can properly understand the depth of a relationship, but out of all of them which one gets assumed? That’s right. The one which will ease that nagging feeling of “What if I’m wrong”.

            You people are so predictable.

            • Eli May 19, 2011, 2:08 PM

              You people are so predictable. You give them same lame justifications to horrible things. I’m going to venture that it’s because you were indoctrinated that there’s divine wisdom behind it all. I feel sorry that you don’t realize how indoctrinated you are.

    • Yankel May 19, 2011, 9:46 AM

      The entire list is just viewing very normal men-women concepts with the Nuran goggles, which transforms them to an extreme, and which focuses on non-existant reasons for why these concepts exist, instead of the real reasons.

      You finished the water and threw your cup in the garbage?! You are anti-cups! You walk around all day and all night obsessing about all the new ways you’re going to rule over the cups of the world. To you cups are just icky vile objects!

      Oh, you claim this has nothing to do with ruling over the cups? Transparent nonsense! Get your fingers out of your ears!

      • A. Nuran May 19, 2011, 2:49 PM

        No, it’s viewing very extreme things through the eyes of a normal person who isn’t blinded by religious fanaticism.Your “Great Ones” proclaim all of these. So do Chazal, Chumash and Mishnah. It isn’t “normal male-female” for women to be considered the same as children, criminals and the insane for purposes of testimony. It’s not “normal” for men but not women to have the right to divorce. It’s not “normal” for men to go out of their minds with lust at the sight of an elbow. It’s not “normal” to forbid women from ever being in positions of authority over men or to destroy their images wherever they might be found.

        That is absolutely bat-scat insane.

        • Aliza T. May 19, 2011, 3:30 PM

          I’m gonna take a page out of yankels book and just say that he can never be convinced and we’re wasting our time here. if you believe that whatever some old guy with a beard tells you is automatically true, there is no room for logic, or what is so obviously wrong, because it is, by definition, right.

  • Seriously? May 18, 2011, 6:38 AM

    Why does Jewish Law treat men and women so differently? Contrary to common understanding, it is not because women are more spiritual than men.

    When Hashem created the world, he made it separated heaven and earth, waters above and below. And everything on earth save for people springs from that lower world, the world of the physical.

    But mankind is the exception. Since it is our job to unite the physical and the spiritual, G-d equipped us with a piece of both worlds. We have both a body and a soul physical desires and a conscience. Thus Hashem created Adam with two distinct acts: Hashem formed the man of dust from the ground, and He blew into his nostrils the soul of life. (Br 2:7). And it became Adams mission (and then ours) to properly unite our bodies and souls. It is no understatement that the history of every man features the clash between these two very different components of our being.

    But Chava was NOT created as Adam was. Chava was a second generation prototype, not made with two disparate (and opposite) ingredients, but made in one step from the already-joined personage of Adam. I submit that women are primarily different from men because a womans body and soul are created more in sync with one another. (This is a reason behind Tefillin, and why men (and not women) are commanded to wear them: men have to work at bringing their bodies and soul together.)

    A woman is far more likely to perceive her appearance as a reflection of her soul. Consequently, the way a woman presents herself tells us a lot more about her very nature. And women thus spend a lot more time on their appearance than men do because for a man, clothes are what someone wears. For a woman, clothes reflect what they are. So a woman being self-aware about her appearance is not an indication of selfishness or shallowness. It is a reaction to an intuition that the way she looks is the way she is.

    This understanding explains a great deal else, of course. A man has a much easier time doing something wrong and then insisting that while the act might have been vile, it was not really a reflection on the man himself. It was, after all, just something physical. Men have a much easier time committing crimes without considering themselves to be criminals. Women not only commit much less crime, but they also have much more difficulty separating a physical act from its emotional component. So men can have an illicit relationship without regrets and without falling in love. Women instinctively connect physical acts with emotional responses: intimacy links to love.

    This same understanding answers an age-old question: When two men wear the same suit to a party, they are not likely to notice and if they do, theyd merely compliment the other on their obviously discerning taste. But if two women show up to the same fancy party wearing the same dress, why must one go home and change?

    The answer is that every neshama is unique representing another of the infinite facets of G-d himself. So for a woman to wear the identical suit as another one would be a denial of her individuality, of that which makes her holy.

    • Shlomo is at Shul May 18, 2011, 7:51 AM

      Wow! That was the most lucid and inspiring thing I have ever read on this site. Did you come up with this yourself? Great read!

      • Seriously? May 18, 2011, 7:59 AM

        It is my own work, and I very much appreciate your kind words; they mean a lot to me. Thank you!

        • Shlomo is at Shul May 18, 2011, 8:20 AM

          You must either be a psychologist or a rabbi?

  • Yankel May 18, 2011, 6:50 AM

    Is Judaism sexist?

    Every sane individual is sexist. People may claim they are not, but it’s only because they don’t want to consider themselves to be something which society looks down upon. To say that men and women are exactly the same is just a factual mistake. It means that you really believe there is absolutely no difference between men and women – physical or otherwise. Nobody really believes this, that makes everybody sexist.

    To try to get around this obvious untruth that the “Non-sexist” belief implies, some people say “I believe there is a difference between men and women PHYSICALLY, but aside from that – they’re exactly the same, and have the same exact capabilities and natural inclinations, and all the differences we see in society today are just the result of social pressure and conditioning.”

    So basically, not being “sexist” is a scientific stance. It means believing there are absolutely no scientific reasons as to why men and women tend to act and feel differently about things. Needless to say, without demonstrating that this is in fact how humans are built, this is a meaningless statement. Besides, countless studies and scientific data show otherwise.

    There’s something else which is a reasonable and logical concept, and it’s called equality. It means that regardless of how common or uncommon it is for a woman to be good at something, if she meets the standards and has what it takes to be good at it, then she should be given the opportunity, and not denied it merely because she is a woman. Likewise, if she is NOT capable, she should not be given the opportunity just because she is a woman.

    Again, equality means that we go according to the capability of the person, and not the category.

    Nobody complains about the fact that probably one hundred percent of the box-lifting jobs in the US are done by males. Why? Because it’s obvious to all that what determines who works at these jobs is not whether one is “Male” or “Female”, but simply physical strength.

    So just as there are different requirements for different tasks and jobs in the world, and just as it is quite natural that one born with the necessary requirements for a given occupation is better suited for (or altogether capable of) the job, there are different jobs and different tasks in Judaism, and when the Torah assigns men to some and women to others, it’s because G-d who created each of them knows the physical and spiritual nature of men and women, as well as their capabilities, and correspondingly assigned them the Mitzvos.

    Unlike men, we don’t encourage women to be public figures, but when a woman shows signs of talent AND Torah wisdom, we do encourage her to advance and become the best speaker, writer etc she can be.

    The Torah is our instruction manual for coming close to G-d. That’s really what the Mitzvos and Judaism are all about. There are certain Mitzvos however, which the Torah tells us don’t fit with the female composition, and were not meant to be a medium for women to come close to G-d. If a woman feels rejected or left out because of this, it’s because she doubts G-d, and not because the Torah is actually depriving her of anything. If G-d tells you “I want you to come to me this way, and not that way”, you can’t claim to care about G-d’s will and want to do the Mitzvos, and in the same sentence express feelings of misjustice in not being given the opportunity to do certain mitzvos.

    That’s the point. “Sheosani kirtzono”. If you really care about G-d’s ratzon of how to serve him, then you’ll realize it doesn’t make a difference which Mitzvos he does or doesn’t want you to do, the point is the proper fulfillment of all the Mitzvos which are relevant to you.

    The reason men say “shelo asani isha”, is because men have more Mitzvos, and therefore they focus on that concept when blessing H-shem. The only reason why having more Mitzvos is a good thing however, is because G-d wanted men to have them. The meaning of the two berachos is then really one and the same. One focuses on the cause (G-d’s will), and one on the effect (proper allocation of Mitzvos).

    • A. Nuran May 18, 2011, 1:16 PM

      Ah yes, any woman who wants the same degree of dignity, the same rights, opportunities that aren’t dictated by what’s between her legs, the same consideration and the ability to be taken seriously as a human being is insane.

      Thanks for making that clear.

      And may God have mercy on the poor woman who finally marries you.

      • Aliza T. May 18, 2011, 1:52 PM

        you’re abolutely right yankel. women aren’t as physically strong as men (learn basic evolution and you’ll understand why) therefore they should step aside when men pass them. the logic is irrefutable. you obviously have no idea what $exism means.

        • John May 18, 2011, 2:10 PM

          $exist!!! how dare you?!! Women are as strong , if not stronger than men!!

        • Yankel May 19, 2011, 6:48 AM

          Aliza,

          You’re basically saying that five million years ago men and women were the same, and in five million years they will (possibly) be the same, but as of now they are in fact different.

          That makes you sexist.

          Maybe back then you weren’t, and maybe in the future you won’t be, but right now in this world in this civilization – you are as sexist as sexist comes.

          What’s the qualitative difference between physical differences and otherwise, which makes one obvious and the other sexist?

          • Aliza T. May 19, 2011, 12:46 PM

            you really dont understand what im talking about.( Short summary: the reason men are physically stronger than women is because men can produce a nearly unlimited # of offspring so they would fight to get to impregnate the women who can only produce a limited amount. only the strong ones got to reproduce whereas for women physical strength didnt matter.) now, that has nothing to do with $exism. its like saying men are taller than women. no one will disagree with that. but saying women cant say testimony or should move aside for men or should be LEGALLY TREATED differently that is the very definition of the term. if you fail to see a difference then im sorry you’re (to paraphrase you) “refusing to be blinded by the facts” and are beyond help

            • anon May 20, 2011, 11:23 AM

              First You claim men are stronger now taller! Youre complelty out of line! Get with the program lady this is the 21st century such views are so primitive.
              Women are the same height if not taller than men. There is no differnce between men and women. Repeat as neccessary

            • Yankel May 22, 2011, 8:50 AM

              Hold on a second. We really have to clear this up, because you keep jumping back and forth between two different definitions of “sexist”.

              Is sexism TREATING the genders differently, regardless of what you consider their structure/makeup to be, or maintaining the opinion that the genders ARE actually different, internally, externally, psycologically, phisiologically, all or any of the above, regardless of how you treat them?

      • Yankel May 19, 2011, 7:45 AM

        Did you read the first two sentences and just hit reply?

        Typical Nuran, decide on your views first, and then “don’t confuse me with the facts”.

        I’m all for equality, I’m all for dignity. What I don’t like is the denial of facts in order to make a person who’s 4″8 feel like he’s 7″. It’s wrong to enforce the equating of strong and weak people when considering a bouncer job, regardless of how much a weak person wants to be a bouncer. Physical design is what it is, spiritual design all the more so.

        If a woman is capable of something – it should make no difference to anybody that she is a woman, even if it unusual for women to be good at it.

        If she is incapable of something, it is wrong for her to push her “womens rights” agenda by accusing everyone who breaths of being sexist just to get the position.

        As far as your sympathy “for the poor woman who finally marries me”, we are BH happily married. To people who don’t spit at the Torah I’m a nice guy. I’m only a d*ck to Goyim who don’t know their place and to self hating Jews (not really sure which category you belong to).

        • A. Nuran May 20, 2011, 3:47 PM

          I read the whole thing. There wasn’t anything even remotely factual in it. Just prejudice masquerading as wisdom and a repulsive sense of superiority and entitlement disguised as piety.

          • Seriously? May 20, 2011, 3:57 PM

            Prejudice masquerading as a repulsive sense of superiority? hmmm… have to wrap my head around that one!

        • anon August 29, 2011, 12:39 PM

          “Goyim who don’t know their place.”

          Wow. It looks like women are not the only ones who are “less equal.”

  • Seriously? May 18, 2011, 10:06 AM

    Neither. My favorite compliment of my writing so far is, and I quote from a published and very learned Rabbi:

    “…exudes gross Am Haratzus. If I were you, I would withdraw it from where ever possible, it makes you appear as a total nincompoop.”

    I think anyone can achieve the level of nincompoop. But a *total* nincompoop is something rare indeed!

    • Yankel May 18, 2011, 10:21 AM

      The difference between a “Goy” and a “Goy gamur”, is that a Goy gamur is always Jewish.

      • Seriously? May 18, 2011, 10:50 AM

        True. Except that I *am* profoundly committed to Torah and my relationship with HKBH. I just have no patience for the classic answers to good questions, namely:

        1: This is impossible for us to understand. Only G-d knows.
        2: You shouldn’t ask such questions.

        These responses make me see red. They are the refuge of small and afraid minds.

        • anon May 18, 2011, 10:55 AM

          Oh wise and great one, dare I ask you a question:
          Why did God allow the holocasut to happen?

          • Seriously? May 18, 2011, 10:59 AM

            How could G-d let it happen?

            This is asked by people of every faith and by atheists in an attempt to disprove the existence of G-d. The dominant answer by G-d-fearing people is that we are not party to His plan, and that when bad things happen, it is as often as not meant to be a challenge to our faith. In other words: we cannot know the answer. And even more than this: even presuming to try to answer fundamental questions of this kind betray a profound and dangerous conceit.

            As you might imagine, I do not believe that any of these answers are correct. If we fail to ask (and in good faith, answer) such important questions, then we are hamstrung in our attempts to really understand the world we inhabit, and more importantly, to develop our relationship with Hashem.

            For starters, it is self-evident that the natural world has its own rules, and Hashem, in the normal course of events, does not choose to break those rules. Rambam classified this as something that comes from natural events: if a tree falls on someone in a storm, it is certain to hurt, no matter how righteous the pedestrian may be. Accidents can and do happen.

            And the same applies for self-inflicted wrongs. If we jump out of a second-story window or play russian roulette, then the outcome is not likely to be pretty. When we harm ourselves, we are in no position to plead where was G-d? This seems obvious enough.

            What interests me are the things that people do to other people: the murder of innocents. How can we be religious and still justify the murder of one innocent child, let alone thousands or millions in events like the Holocaust, or ethnic cleansing, or Cultural Revolutions?

            This question is often rephrased as the following word play: if G-d was able to prevent the Holocaust and failed to do so, then He is not good,; and if He wanted to prevent it, but could not do so, then not being omnipotent, He is not G-d. The short answer to this is that G-ds definition of good is necessarily different from ours.

            Lets go about answering this question the other way around: What would happen if G-d did NOT allow bad people to act accordingly?

            The answer is that such a result would give us an unrecognizable world. If good people were consistently rewarded, and bad people consistently punished, then G-ds hand at work would become undeniable, and the free choice of humans would thereby be constrained.

            Instead, the world we have is one in which a G-d-fearing person sees Hashems hand at work and the atheist sees coincidence, or hard work at play. The classic example is Avrahams victory in the war of the four kings against the five kings. The kings whom Avraham saves praise Avraham for his great military prowess. And just a few verses later, Malchi Tzedek meets Avraham and praises G-d for the same victory. We see what we choose to see.

            Hashem is evident in our world, to those who wish to see him. But as the times of open miracles are far in our past, Hashem will not step over the line, will not commit any act that would convince an avowed atheist that He in fact exists. Such an act would interfere with the core freedom that Hashem gave humanity when He first explained about the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil as well as the Tree of Life to Adam and Chava: the freedom to choose.

            G-d values our freedom, because he ultimately values the choices that we make. It is those choices that allow us to choose to becomes servants of Hashem, to follow in his ways. Without choice, we are not men at all. And unless we can logically choose NOT to follow in Hashems path, then we are not making a free choice. Unless we have free will, we are not humans.

            But wait: dont we learn in Isaiah (55) that: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

            And here we answer the original question. G-ds priorities are different than ours His Good is not the same as our Good. We value life, because we dont know what choices will be made, and because Hashem commands us to do so. But Hashem, who knows all possible futures, only values life inasmuch as it leads to people making good choices (including, in the above pasuk, doing teshuvah) and improving the world. His ways are not our ways, because for Hashem, free will is more important than life itself.

            After all, life always leads to death: every life born in this world carries with it a certainty of death. The only thing that is not certain at the moment that our lives are created is how we choose to live, what we do with the brief days we are given. We value life, but G-d values what we make of the life we are given: the choices we make and the way we beautify ourselves and the people around us.

            And it all comes full circle. Not only do we have free choice, but we can exercise our free will to help others to make good decisions: we have the responsibility to reform or eliminate evil. It is up to us to make the world a better place. And when innocent people die at the hands of evil, it is not because G-d wills it to be so, but because for Hashem to interfere so blatantly in the affairs of our world that evil people are absolutely barred from carrying out their designs, then the entire purpose of the world would be compromised. In other words, the world exists so that mankind can make free choices, for good or ill. Those choices and their outcomes are more important to Hashem than life itself, no matter how innocent, or precious, or loved. My thoughts are not your thoughts.

          • Seriously? May 18, 2011, 11:17 AM

            This is an age-old question, asked by people of every faith and by atheists in an attempt to disprove the existence of G-d. The dominant answer by G-d-fearing people is that we are not party to His plan, and that when bad things happen, it is as often as not meant to be a challenge to our faith. In other words: we cannot know the answer. And even more than this: even presuming to try to answer fundamental questions of this kind betray a profound and dangerous conceit.

            As you might imagine, I do not believe that any of these answers are correct. If we fail to ask (and in good faith, answer) such important questions, then we are hamstrung in our attempts to really understand the world we inhabit, and more importantly, to develop our relationship with Hashem.

            For starters, it is self-evident that the natural world has its own rules, and Hashem, in the normal course of events, does not choose to break those rules. Rambam classified this as something that comes from natural events: if a tree falls on someone in a storm, it is certain to hurt, no matter how righteous the pedestrian may be. Accidents can and do happen.

            And the same applies for self-inflicted wrongs. If we jump out of a second-story window or play russian roulette, then the outcome is not likely to be pretty. When we harm ourselves, we are in no position to plead where was G-d? This seems obvious enough.

            What interests me are the things that people do to other people: the murder of innocents. How can we be religious and still justify the murder of one innocent child, let alone thousands or millions in events like the Holocaust, or ethnic cleansing, or Cultural Revolutions?

            This question is often rephrased as the following word play: if G-d was able to prevent the Holocaust and failed to do so, then He is not good,; and if He wanted to prevent it, but could not do so, then not being omnipotent, He is not G-d. The short answer to this is that G-ds definition of good is necessarily different from ours.

            Lets go about answering this question the other way around: What would happen if G-d did NOT allow bad people to act accordingly?

            The answer is that such a result would give us an unrecognizable world. If good people were consistently rewarded, and bad people consistently punished, then G-ds hand at work would become undeniable, and the free choice of humans would thereby be constrained.

            Instead, the world we have is one in which a G-d-fearing person sees Hashems hand at work and the atheist sees coincidence, or hard work at play. The classic example is Avrahams victory in the war of the four kings against the five kings. The kings whom Avraham saves praise Avraham for his great military prowess. And just a few verses later, Malchi Tzedek meets Avraham and praises G-d for the same victory. We see what we choose to see.

            Hashem is evident in our world, to those who wish to see him. But as the times of open miracles are far in our past, Hashem will not step over the line, will not commit any act that would convince an avowed atheist that He in fact exists. Such an act would interfere with the core freedom that Hashem gave humanity when He first explained about the Tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil as well as the Tree of Life to Adam and Chava: the freedom to choose.

            G-d values our freedom, because he ultimately values the choices that we make. It is those choices that allow us to choose to becomes servants of Hashem, to follow in his ways. Without choice, we are not men at all. And unless we can logically choose NOT to follow in Hashems path, then we are not making a free choice. Unless we have free will, we are not humans.

            But wait: dont we learn in Isaiah (55) that: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.

            And here we answer the original question. G-ds priorities are different than ours His Good is not the same as our Good. We value life, because we dont know what choices will be made, and because Hashem commands us to do so. But Hashem, who knows all possible futures, only values life inasmuch as it leads to people making good choices (including, in the above pasuk, doing teshuvah) and improving the world. His ways are not our ways, because for Hashem, free will is more important than life itself.

            After all, life always leads to death: every life born in this world carries with it a certainty of death. The only thing that is not certain at the moment that our lives are created is how we choose to live, what we do with the brief days we are given. We value life, but G-d values what we make of the life we are given: the choices we make and the way we beautify ourselves and the people around us.

            And it all comes full circle. Not only do we have free choice, but we can exercise our free will to help others to make good decisions: we have the responsibility to reform or eliminate evil. It is up to us to make the world a better place. And when innocent people die at the hands of evil, it is not because G-d wills it to be so, but because for Hashem to interfere so blatantly in the affairs of our world that evil people are absolutely barred from carrying out their designs, then the entire purpose of the world would be compromised. In other words, the world exists so that mankind can make free choices, for good or ill. Those choices and their outcomes are more important to Hashem than life itself, no matter how innocent, or precious, or loved. My thoughts are not your thoughts.

          • Seriously? May 18, 2011, 11:18 AM

            I have tried to post a reply, but the server won’t post it (maybe it is too long).

            Since it won’t post it, I have little choice but to direct you to an external link:
            http://midrashicmusings.blogspot.com/2009/09/how-can-g-d-allow-evil-to-triumph.html

          • Seriously? May 18, 2011, 11:23 AM

            I have a reply awaiting moderation (since I had to use a url link to the answer).

          • anon May 18, 2011, 1:22 PM

            Youre a little bit all over the place, and this is hardly the best forum for this discussion, but you are decieving yourself heres why:
            a. You are assuming stopping the holocasut wouldve required a miracle or god changing nature this is not so. Hitler couldve died in his sleep, been shot by a stray bulet during WWI or better yet, never been born, and nobody wouldve been the wiser. If god knew that hitler would go on to kill an estimated 1.5 million children who shouldve been quite distant from the “certainty of death” that you speak of, who did not get to an oppurtunity to “make of the lives they were given” as you put it. You have not answered the question at all.
            b. The closest you came to answering was “gods priorites are differnt than ours” and “My thoughts are not your thoughts” Though Im surprised you said that since you hate the answer “This is impossible for us to answer only god knows”

            • Seriously? May 18, 2011, 2:52 PM

              I addressed both:

              1: Evil exists *because the Jews do not stop it*. That is *our* job. Hitler was not G-d’s problem: he was ours. And we as a people, from top to bottom, did not address it. I hope it is a learning experience for the next one.

              2: I did not say that only G-d knows. I said that His priorities are different from ours. We have to value life. He values choices.

            • Seriously? May 19, 2011, 5:33 AM

              Turn the question around: Why did WE, the Jewish people, allow the Holocaust to happen? We are G-d’s agents on this world, after all.

              • Anonymous May 19, 2011, 5:35 AM

                We didnt have the power to kill hitler. Guess who did though? And it wouldnt have required a break with nature, so gues whos answer (while well written, kudos) is complete hogwash?

                • Seriously? May 19, 2011, 5:43 AM

                  Are you serious?

                  It takes one bullet to kill someone.

                  Hitler from 1933 to 1938 was an open public figure. He could have been killed by a lone gunman.

                  I believe there is no record that *any* Jew ever made any attempt at all.

                  We Jews are the movers and shakers in this world. G-d wants us to realize this, and act on it.

                  • Yoreh K'chetz May 19, 2011, 5:55 AM

                    Seriously,

                    I think most Jews would have been afraid to kill hitler between 1933 and 1938. He was Germany’s “hero” and had millions of crazed followers. They probably felt that killing him would start a massive pogrom.

                    • Seriously? May 19, 2011, 6:11 AM

                      Not as massive as what Hitler himself was promising.

                      As a nation we suffer from a ghetto/slave mentality. Our biggest weakness is our failure to be bold and visionary enough.

                      We cannot lock ourselves away in shtetls and Jewish enclaves, and expect G-d to manage the rest of the world.

                    • Yoreh K'chetz May 19, 2011, 6:25 AM

                      Seriously,

                      The Jews were naive enough to think it could never happen. They were afraid of “making things worse” time and time again, even when things were a lot worse than the time period between 1933 and 1938.

                      Assassinating him may not have soved anything, there were plenty of others ready to take his place.

                      The real question is how/why they didn’t listen to those that wanted to run. Had they done so in really big numbers, things might have been different. Though the English bastards were tight on immigration to Israel at the time, I don’t think they could have stopped million from entering the country.

                      I’m no shrink, but I think part of human nature is telling yourself that tomorrow will be better. Probably how holocaust survivors managed to keep their sanity.

                  • Anonymous May 19, 2011, 6:08 AM

                    I assume youre kidding. ARe u saying the jews are responsible for the holocaust because none of them killed hitler?
                    Phil how right u are look at what happned when a lowly german diplomat was shot.

                    • Seriously? May 19, 2011, 6:12 AM

                      We did not stop the holocaust. The Jews did not fight Hitlers political rise, and they did not attack him physically.

                      Assassinations can and have worked through history.

                      Of course I am saying that Jews are supposed to make the world a better place. I am stunned that you think this is somehow a joke. What is the purpose of your existence?

                    • Yankel May 19, 2011, 7:51 AM

                      Seriously,

                      So you’d quicker believe our obligation was to kill Hitler than believe the holocaust was a direct result of the Haskala?

                      Have you seen the Tochacha recently? The resemblance between what happened in th 40’s and what it says in ki sisa is scarily similar.

                    • Yoreh K'chetz May 19, 2011, 8:00 AM

                      Yankel,

                      I wouldn’t be too quick to blame the haskala, plenty of frum Jews had inner conflict and big problems as well.

                      The tochacha is specifically referring to Jews living in Eretz Yisrael before the destruction of the first Beis Hamikdash. The details in most of the curses are very specific to the land and era.

              • Eli May 19, 2011, 7:31 AM

                So God hade 6 million people suffer and die so that he can give me the ability to assasinate Hitler?
                You know, I give my child a loaded gun to see if he can be resposible with it.

                • Seriously? May 19, 2011, 9:10 AM

                  You have cause and effect backward. G-d made the world with rules. And he also made the Jews, the change agents.

                  Why is this so hard to understand? Of course, we as individuals and as a nation are a loaded gun, capable of tremendous power. That power is agnostic; it can be used for good or ill. We have shown that we can use that power for good (medicine, law, technology, etc.) and for bad (Freud, Marx, etc.)

                  The choice and power are both ours. When we refuse to embrace it fully, others remind us of the consequences of the worst decisions we can make: allowing inertia to carry the day.

                  • Eli May 19, 2011, 1:00 PM

                    What’s wrong with Freud? Half the articles in Mishpacha and Ami are about psychology! So maybe he was a little misguided, but the benefits that he brought to mankind are nearly unparalleled. How would we have all these articles on Chanoch Lenaar Al Pi Darko without him?

                    • Seriously? May 19, 2011, 1:35 PM

                      Freud invented an entire world view – that one’s actions were not one’s own responsibility, but rather were inevitable byproducts of childhood experiences, bad parenting, etc. Freud has caused untold damage, by excusing bad behavior of all kinds.

                    • Eli May 19, 2011, 1:48 PM

                      He invented a worldview where one can get a better insight into his/her motivations for behaviors. Understanding WHY one does something doesn’t remove one’s responsibility to change it.
                      I wonder how could it be that many (most) charedi Rabbanim send people for psychotherapy if all it does is “excuse” bad behaviors?
                      Speaking from personal experience, it has made me a much better person in every way.

        • Yankel May 19, 2011, 7:04 AM

          The “Goy Gamur” thing was a joke. It was not pointed at you.

          As far as the two questions which bother you, both have their time and place, but are unfortunately used and abused way too much, and way too often.

          See Rambam Teshuva on the big yediah and bechira question, and a medrash which I forget where, but it says “Whoever contemplates existence before the world was created, would be better off not having been born.”

          In response to a kabballistic inquiry, the Gra once told R’ Chaim Volozhin, that the Beis Hamikdash is symbolic of the Torah, and the inside layer of the Aron represents the questions which are not to be asked.

          • Seriously? May 19, 2011, 9:04 AM

            I know that people (including the Gra) have held that there are questions that are not supposed to be asked.

            I disagree. Everything in the world and which we can perceive, can be known. This does not contradict the Rambam (though I would not hesitate to do so, if I believed strongly that he was incorrect).

            • Yankel May 19, 2011, 1:59 PM

              I don’t think you’re in a position to agree or disagree with the Gra, unless you have another authority to follow.

              Besides, how do you learn the Medrash?

              Besides besides, “Ki lo machshivosai machshivoseichem.” G-d is infinite while we are made of dirt and think on it’s terms. Ultimately there comes a point where we cannot understand. To say otherwise is to say we can understand G-d, which is of course impossible.

              Again, I thing asking is good and should be encouraged, but the answer can sometimes be “We as humans do not have the capacity to comprehend the explanation for this”.

              Can you understand how as far as G-d is concerned, time doesn’t exist? That there is no before or after? That G-d had to create light AND dark?

              What about “Ayin lo ra’asa elokim zulasecha”? That clearly states that there are certain places things and concepts that we are not to see or understand here on this world.

  • Seriously? May 19, 2011, 8:05 AM

    Somehow we have run out of “Reply” options. So this may not be connected.

    Haskala was a belief that Jews can and should be more involved in the world. Be careful what you wish for; we got more involved, but did not come to the full realization that with that involvement comes responsibility.

    My read is as follows: G-d has no problem with us making choices – as long as we absorb the full impact of those choices, pro and con. This is the primary lesson of Adam and Eve: if you make a choice, you deal with the consequences.

    The Haskalah was a choice. It came with responsibilities, that we ignored to our peril.

    I do NOT believe that G-d wants anybody dead. G-d wants people to make choices, and for Jews to improve the world.

    • Anonymous May 19, 2011, 9:06 AM

      Setting aside the offensiveness and (more importantly) the absurdity of blaming the Jews for the holocasut, becase they didnt stop hitler, i have another related question for you.
      Do you believe god runs the world at all? In what capacity? Or put another way, do you pray that God should gather the exiles, return to yerushalyim etc etc, why? It would follow based on your “logic” that everything is in our hands, prayers are meaningless becasue god doesnt control things?

      • Seriously? May 19, 2011, 9:14 AM

        To start with your “setting aside” issue first:

        Choices have consequences. If we refuse to take on the responsibilities that we have, then there is ultimately no value in our existence at all.

        What use does G-d have for a people who refuse to choose to do good and eradicate evil? What are we for?

        Remember: G-d does not value our lives. He only values our choices.

      • Seriously? May 19, 2011, 9:22 AM

        As to your second question:

        G-d does not run the natural world directly. He has angels that do it for him – essentially pre-programmed software that drives all non-human life.

        The Gemara asks: where is Hashem dwelling now that the Beis Hamikdash has been destroyed? In the Daled Amos (“4 paces”)

        The Daled Amos is the Torah – and every Jew.

        We daven to meditate, to talk to Hashem as the still, small voice in our souls. And we daven to grow the relationship with Hashem in the cosmic sense. G-d *will* be part of our lives, but only to the extent that we want him to be. As I posted elsewhere, there are no consequences in the real world if one chooses to walk away from G-d. Avraham did precisely this, after all. It just means that the special relationship ends, like with Kares.

        I try to make every choice in life connected to that relationship with Hashem, and with my belief that He wants us to achieve truly great things.

      • Seriously? May 19, 2011, 9:28 AM

        I should also give a more direct answer:

        Yes, G-d does intervene directly in the natural world for or against specific people who have a relationship with Him. I don’t think He involves Himself with those people who do not have a relationship. G-d respects the free will of all people, absolutely.

  • Yoreh K'chetz May 19, 2011, 2:14 PM

    Just as God created male and females with physical differences, he created them with spiritual differences as well. Trying to say that we are spiritually equal is the same as saying that we are physically equal, which is totally absurd. Everything created has it’s place and function both physically and spiritually.

    So called enlightened people that think otherwise need to get their heads screwed on properly.

    Reminds me of the old joke. Jack and Jill are playing outside during recess. Jack says “I’ll show you mine if you show me yours”. Jack whips it out. Jill pulls off her panties. Jack starts laughing and says “you don’t have one of these”. Jill goes home crying. Next day, she comes back and says “My mommy said that with one of these I can get hundreds of those!”.

  • Rachel December 30, 2011, 9:08 PM

    haha pretty good satire. i know, today and it’s standards of respect and crap. today on the other hand, women are females are women’s equal rights’ worst enemy. all the women who just accept bull and think it’s cute to be stupid and vulnerable.
    Honestly, i dont think women of early judaism were like women today (the ones who DON’T think it’s cute to act like a 8 year old). Hormones and all. Plus being brain washed. I travelled to the middle east and in rural areas, women are convinced that they are inately less than men. People were pretty much brain washed from early in human existance. So they followed: women stay at home, men hunt. Hey, it had to be one sex or the other, could have been females, but it just so happened it was males. As a result the male body is capable of being stronger than a woman’s. So, they made all the rules by asserting their physical power.

    Gender roles, even though G-d supposedly assigned them, are just pointless. The world would be whole if we just brought an end to gender and it’s roles in general.

  • Rachel December 30, 2011, 9:16 PM

    Yoreh K’chetz , you must believe G-d assigned gender roles. and must not understand hormones or human evolution (no, not the “monkey kind”).
    if you’ve ever heard of gender queer folk and/or transgendered people you would see that it’s not roles sent down from above, not the body we are in, but the hormones, the soul, and knowledge that make us who we are. hormones are a HUGE part of why people act the way they do. but being brain washed into believing they are *supposed* to act a certain way is another, sadder reason.
    but i doubt you see trans people as anything besides sick. sad for you 🙁

    • Crowin' Cock December 31, 2011, 5:50 PM

      Rachel,

      Not sure what trans people have to do wih this discussion, but they are definitely “isck” in the sense that something is very abnormal with them.

    • Crowin' Cock December 31, 2011, 5:51 PM

      Rachel,

      Not sure what trans people have to do with this discussion, but they are definitely “sick” in the sense that something is very abnormal with them.

  • Yirmeyahu January 15, 2012, 3:04 PM

    i know it’s kinda late to comment, but what the heck…not all jews believe that the rabbis have the authority that they’ve given themselves. i’ve found alot of ignorance on this page. first, if adam had been a better husband eve never would have eaten the fruit to begin with. there is nothing more compelling to man then woman. it’s not womans fault, god just made them so damn sexy. because of this, many religions see women as a something to be avoided. however torah COMMANDS man to control himself. if a man commits adultery it is his sin and he must pay it with his life.

    i do not agree with all the things the rabbis do. especially when they make up new rules and say moses said it. however, i have found that most people don’t know anything about torah. even most jews. gender roles are important, but not as important as our relationship with ha shem. shalom.

    p.s. if you call a man a pig, don’t get upset when he acts like one.

  • Zan April 27, 2012, 11:58 AM

    I know it’s late as well! I’ve always had trouble with the reasoning that women must do certain things in order to avoid men sinning (so to speak)–as if it is their responsibility to control men’s thoughts and behavior? It reminds me too much of those who say that women who wear short skirts are “asking” to be assaulted or harassed. I guess it comes down to the religion being shaped entirely by men, so the “male gaze” dominates halacha.

  • Anonymous July 15, 2013, 2:54 AM

    hello peeps xx what’s hanging???? SWAG!! My name is Charmaine and LOL!!

  • bandar sakong February 8, 2018, 11:52 PM

    This is my first time visit at here and i am in fact pleassant to read everthing at single place.

  • Judi bola sportsbook March 14, 2018, 4:16 AM

    You really make it seem so easy with your presentation but I find this matter
    to be really something which I feel I might never understand.
    It sort of feels too complicated and extremely wide for me.
    I am taking a look ahead to your subsequent post, I will try to get the cling of it!

  • judi Bola Piala dunia 2018 April 2, 2018, 7:42 PM

    It’s difficult to find well-informed people on this subject, however, you sound like
    you know what you’re talking about! Thanks

  • Streamng bokep full HD April 6, 2018, 8:56 PM

    s sound processing capabilities to give you a far more personalised listening experience.
    Often print head are not aligned appropriate and this can result to inferior quality printing.
    It all depends on which is more important to you: sound quality or more songs.

  • www.classic.snai.it April 13, 2018, 3:41 AM

    I blog often and I really appreciate your content. The article has truly peaked my interest.

    I’m going to take a note of your website and keep checking for new details
    about once per week. I subscribed to your Feed too.

  • M88 May 26, 2018, 8:49 PM

    Appreciating the time and effort you put into your site
    and in depth information you offer. It’s nice to come across a blog
    every once in a while that isn’t the same outdated rehashed information. Wonderful read!
    I’ve saved your site and I’m adding your RSS
    feeds to my Google account.

  • This design is incredible! You definitely know how to
    keep a reader entertained. Between your wit and your videos, I was almost moved to start my own blog (well, almost…HaHa!) Excellent job.
    I really loved what you had to say, and more than that, how
    you presented it. Too cool!

  • situs qq online terpercaya June 24, 2018, 7:12 PM

    Fastidious replies in return of this difficulty with reall arguments and describing
    everything concerning that.

  • fifa 2018 hack October 9, 2018, 6:04 AM

    This site truly has all the information and facts I wanted concerning this subject and didn’t know who to ask.

  • internet technology October 9, 2018, 1:14 PM

    It’s enormous that you are getting thoughts from this paragraph as
    well as from our dialogue made here.

  • Raymundo October 12, 2018, 9:54 PM

    Some assessed him as a Paranoid Schizophrénic.

  • under armour storm pants October 17, 2018, 6:11 AM

    Have you ever thought about creating an e-book or guest authoring on other
    blogs? I have a blog centered on the same subjects you discuss and would love to have you share some
    stories/information. I know my readers would enjoy your work.
    If you are even remotely interested, feel free to
    shoot me an e-mail.

  • steam Games October 22, 2018, 3:14 PM

    If some one needs to be updated with hottest technologies then he must be pay a visit this web site and be up to date
    every day.

  • sách tình dục December 4, 2018, 2:49 PM

    Hi, Neat post. Theгe’s аn issue with yߋur web site іn internet explorer, might
    check thіs? IE still is the marketplace leader ɑnd a
    g᧐od section of people ѡill omit your wonderful writing due to this problеm.

  • Boris December 5, 2018, 10:39 PM

    I know this website offers quality based articles and extra data, is there any other website which offers these data in quality?

  • personnalisée December 7, 2018, 4:06 PM

    Hi mates, how is everything, and what you would like to say
    on the topic of this piece of writing, in my view its really awesome
    for me.

  • what is bb cream vs cc cream December 8, 2018, 2:30 AM

    Undeniably elieve that which you said.
    Your favoгite reason appeafed to bbе on the net thee easiest thing to be awɑre of.
    I say to yoᥙ, I certainly get annoyed while people considеr worrіes that theү plainly don’t
    know about. You manged to hіt the naiⅼ upon the top as well as defined out
    the whole thing withoᥙt having side-effects , people could take
    а signal. Will probably be back to get more.
    Thanks

  • under armour store near me December 8, 2018, 2:47 PM

    I’m impressed, I have to admit. Seldom do I encounter a blog that’s equally educative and amusing, and let me tell
    you, you have hit the nail on the head. The problem is something which
    not enough people are speaking intelligently about.

    I am very happy I stumbled across this in my hunt for
    something relating to this.

Leave a Comment