Guys who like big girls

This Dan Savage video I found is his response to a girl who is overweight about finding guys who are attracted to her, it’s basically about how many guys go out with girls their friends will think are hot and I think this video is some great mussar for us men.

I am always trying to set people up, in fact I kind of feel like featuring people every week who wish to meet others who are fans of this site, but the one major disappointment is from the men who refuse to date anyone who is not petite. I’m disenchanted with this immature mentality of automatically rejecting a girl just because she has a muffin top or a little junk in the trunk, as Dan said, 60% of Americans are obese and that fgure may even be higher in the frum community. I have always found that coolness is much more important than looks. Maybe despite my perceived immaturity I am more mature than most frum guys, or are we being too hard on guys who have been conditioned by society to be attracted to rain thin girls who pule up perfectly good pizza at the end of the meal.

Comments on this entry are closed.

  • Julie

    dude. right on.

    • http://www.frumsatire.net Heshy Fried

      You like big girls?

      • A. Nuran

        Baby Got Tochis?

        • Mahla

          LOL! ;^D

  • Lukewarm Chanie

    Fact: A Hot Chanie will drop you when your portfolio tanks.
    Fact: A Hot Chanie will bale as soon as you have a medical problem.
    Fact: Your chevra is laughing behind your back when you are blowing all your money on the trophy who is never satisfied with your car, dates, clothing, gifts,etc.
    Fact: A muffin top and/or junk in the trunker will most likely be your greatest supporter in good and bad times.
    Fact: Your chevra will not raise your kids.
    Fact: It gets tired listening to the trophy puking on the other side of the bathroom door.
    Yaher Koach Heshie.

    • Batsheva

      <3

    • http://kissmeimshomer.wordpress.com kissmeimshomer

      so you’re saying only hot chanies are hot? there are plenty of hot girls out there, far hotter than hot chanies, but arent stuck up flatbush assholes.

  • http://righteousrasha.blogspot.com Tova

    Great clip. Dan Savage is a smart guy!

    I’ve found that when it comes to male-female attraction, very few people are actually interested in ‘perfect’ bodies.

    As a matter of fact, most men I know don’t “see” the imperfections that women “see”. Fashion magazines, beauty editors and yentas will obsess over stretch marks or cellulite or extra pounds or anything else, while men will simply see a good-looking (even beautiful) woman.

    • daniel

      seems most men you know are too smart to tell you what they think and see.

  • Anonymous

    There’s a Gemora which discusses one Rosie Odonnel’s travels in Mexico:

    R’ Nissim in the name of R’ Naftoli in the name of the guy who said it says; Rosie Odonnel and her life partner went away to the southern lands (Rashi says Mexico although Tosfos says it could be any of the areas once controlled by Mexico). While traveling many men started hitting on Odonnel. She said to one man “why are you hitting on me? My friend (her partner) (thank you artscroll translation) is beautiful, blond, and petite. Why don’t you hit on her?” He said to her “the bone is for the dog, the meat is for the man.”
    (Kiddushin 85b)
    true story according to my father (minus the whole Gemora part)

    • hebrewgirl

      Or, why certain brunettes with a teeny tiny bit of extra adiposity must travel to San Francisco’s Mission District in order to garner a little male appreciation.

  • Esther

    As they say, there is a customer out there for every product and beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I cannot reiterate enough that confidence is key. Whether you’re male or female, big or small or anything in between, while I am all for self improvement, you need to love and respect yourself at every stage in your life. If your imperfections bother you, then do something about them, but realize that you are beautiful and wonderful and there is always room for improvement in every individual. Know your worth and go through life with confidence (that includes confidence in your muffin top and the junk in the trunk ;) if you got it, flaunt it!!!!).

    Sincerely,
    -Petite and perfect (and that’s my story and I’m sticking to it)

  • A. Nuran

    Dan Savage is always worth reading. He’s entertaining and has his head screwed on straight.

  • Dr. Shrink

    I like a little junk in the trunk-if its tight…miffin tops I really don’t like. I truely believe that almost every man has certain physical traits that a)he likes, b)doesn’t mind, and c) can’t stand. For example, I need some big tata’s. But I don’t really care how toned her legs are. I have a friend that is the exact opposite. The problems arise from the guys who want a perfect figure, in all areas-and that is just not practical. I don’t feel it is fair to call someone ‘immature’ or judgemental because he won’t date a girl cuz of her muffin tops-as long as he isn’t finding fault in EVERY part of her body/expects every part to be perfect. Men have their prefences, and that is OK. Same goes for women-like my wife. She doesn’t like short men, but is OK with a guy with a small penis (why she was OK with marrying me). Nothing wrong with certain prefences and traits that are bothersome (like miffin tops) as long as you aren’t looking for absolute perfection. That is the problem.

    • Anonymous

      Are you serious? Small penis? How would she know? Wait, don’t tell me…

      • Dr. Shrink

        You can find out too, if you want…tell
        Me, where do you live?

      • Yoreh K’chetz (aka Phil)

        Anon,

        Maybe she read the Gemara post about Rabbi Yochanan’s 4-12 liter bottle.

  • Phil

    Physical attraction is a must in order to get married. Without it, the marriage is doomed to fail.

    People that have a problem with body fat are in for a rough time. The vast majority of frum people put on lots of weight after marriage, especially women that have babies every 10-12 months.

    Personally, a 10-15 lbs more or less doesn’t bother me, but many women I know including my wife and sister put pressure on themselves stay in shape and look picture perfect.

    A woman will stop menstruating when she gets too thin, as her body recognizes that it is incapable of sustaining a pregnancy. Many women are at that point, others consider their normal weight just a few pounds over that limit. I don’t think it’s healthy at all, but there are definitely marital benefits when the woman can’t become nidda ;)

    • A. Nuran

      Only if you don’t want children.

  • idiedtryin

    There has to be physical attraction in order to get married or to pretty much date. In fact pgysical attraction is the first thing humans look for before dating unless ur goal to get married is just to procreate- then u don’t care. But since we do care. A big girl just doesn’t cut it for some of us. Its not being picky or its not to show off to ur frend. Its just that to most men fat girls just do it for us. I get the point ur trying to make but u didn’t present it clear enough.

    Why would a decent looking man want to marry a fat gilr? Should we feel bad for the fat girls? No, its called dieting. Do it. Now. Or no one will want to hit that. Fat men on the other hand…can get a hot girl. But that’s a whole other discussion. tu

    • http://www.frumsatire.net Heshy Fried

      So you are saying that people who look good according to society have to marry each other. I’m not even saying big girls here, I’m saying a girl who’s a size 6 or 8 won;t cut it even for a first date, they demand pictures and angles and by the time the whole thing is over with they are old and graying and living on the upper west side.

      • http://kissmeimshomer.wordpress.com kissmeimshomer

        dude there’s a whole study done on how our animalistic insticts automatically adapt to our perception of how people react to us. Say a guy sees he has trouble getting really hot girls, he’ll aim lower subconciously, and that “lower” goal will become his number one focus.
        basically the idea is, we focus on one thing as the human race. Procreation. We walk differently when we know there are women around. We talk differently. We have different expressions. Everything is subconcious, and we are wired to make ourselves look as attractive as possible toward the opposite sex, and o react based on their reactions. So its not that all the ugly people marry the other ugly people, or fat-fat, its just that people look for what they percieve they can get. A guy with no game, and perfect looks, may still end up with the fat girl, because to him she’s perfect. His subconcious aims for what he can get.

        • CityGirl

          That’s a terribly offensive analogy/ study.

    • A. Nuran

      I’ve dated women who weren’t physically good looking. I wasn’t repulsed by them, but they weren’t pretty. What caught my interest was knowing them first and being attracted by their character, ideas, shared interests, values and other personal qualities.

      Isn’t it strange that the evil secular world allows us to find people based on deeper human worth. The “higher” and “more spiritual” frum subculture puts a much higher premium on gossip and the most superficial physical characteristics.

      • Yankel

        Exactly.
        “Sheker ha’chein v’hevel ha’yofi, isha yiras H-shem – hi tis’halal”.
        I’m starting to doubt that you ever met a frum person outside some whacked community out in yehupitz.

        Unless you mean the rejects and degenerates of the Orthodox community.
        I’ve heard about a certain guy, that everyone knew he was looking for “a size 2″ for shidduchim. Can you believe it?!

        • A. Nuran

          Sarcasm doesn’t come over well in text. A lot of that was conscious inversion to tweak the people who hold up for-profit courtship brokering as superior. t was poorly executed.

          But I must admit to being a bit appalled at how it was done in my brother in law’s family and how relatives on my father’s side described the process. Seven or eight dates, and then the gossip started about why weren’t they engaged yet. Half a dozen meetings just isn’t enough to get anything but the most superficial idea of what a person is like.

          • Yankel

            People who know each other for years sometimes find that marriage makes things different, and they can’t work it out.

            For people who never spoke to the other gender, and the girl/boy their dating is the only one they ever had anything to do with, it’s much easier for things to work if they have common goals.

            • A. Nuran

              Some of A works and some of B doesn’t work, so A works better than B.

              Anyone who passed Freshman Logic could tear that one apart with half his brain tied behind his back.

              Communication is a skill. Understanding people of the opposite gender is several skills and a lot of knowledge. The later in life you learn them the harder it is. Being completely inept and having no idea of what your real desires and values are, only what you’ve been told they must be, is no substitute for competence.

              • Yankel

                True, communication is a skill.
                However, that which inhibits communication is usually our own distortions of thinking. We are born without those distortions. Every time we experience promiscuity or unhealthy relationships we further distort our thinking.

                Of course it takes time and effort to understand the opposite gender – no matter who you are. But it’s a positive and hopeful process when that person is the only one you ever knew.

                Imagine if your first relationship took place at a time when both of you were emotionally mature. How amazing would that be – long term? Of course it felt “Just right” at the time, but what happened?

                Being completely inept and having no idea of what your real desires and values are, only what you’ve been told they must be, is no substitute for competence.

                But no one is completely inept, and nobody is totally detatched. Everyone is human and experiences what humans naturally do. The question is how those feelings and understandings are formed, and more importantly – nurtured.

                I think that to make an honest statement, you need to really see what a Jewish marriage is supposed to look like.

                What your describing is actually the result of certain Jews living in two worlds simultaneously. That cannot work.
                To admire the world of TV and Hollywood cannot go together with a G-dly marriage.
                To have premarital fraternization cannot go together with a “sit in”.

                The solution is not to deny the ideal way of marital development. It’s to raise and direct our children towards healthy thinking and living, so that they can experience the best relationships possible.

  • A. Nuran

    In groups like the frum where couples are pretty much strangers when they marry – getting engaged after half a dozen highly ritualized dates seems downright bizarre – about all you have to go on are the most superficial physical things.

    A lot of physical attraction is a series of quick checks to see if the other person is good breeding stock. Everything from jawline and shoulder width in men (testosterone, general health) to waist/bust ratio in women (estradiol levels), skin quality (nutrition and general health), symmetrical features and a whole lot more is directly related to thing which make a person likely to produce healthy, high-quality offspring.

    Sometimes it goes even deeper. It turns out the nose can detect the human HLA profile at a subconscious level. A more heterozygous HLA profile means better resistance to infections. Normally this isn’t too important. Two random people will have enough genetic diversity between them.

    In highly inbred populations (see above) the lack of diversity can have profound implications. In groups like Hutterites, Amish and Chassidic members show a marked preference for choosing spouses with a much different HLA profile within the narrow bounds available.

  • JustHavingFun

    Look at how many gorgeous women go with fat guys. Mr. “I-love-Thursday-night-cholent” gets a bit of a tummy if he continues with the cholent Friday and Shabbos and motzaei Shabbos. You wonder what these guys have? In general, men in relationships are attracted by their eyes and women by their hearts. I’d go with the plain, dumpy guy who loves me and treats me right any time versus the hot shot looker. Guys: wise up. You don’t want to be the 60-year old divorced guy on Frumster who wants a woman who is “up to 35, willing to have children.” That’s just eewwwyyy. As a 50ish divorcee, I don’t want that guy, either. He can ignore his ear hair and body effluvia and still demand a size-2 model? C’mon, get real. It’s all about relationships, not look-at-ships. How do you relate? How are you going to continue to relate? If it’s all about looks, when the looks go, what’s there to keep you going when the times get tough? When you’re dating, you don’t think about cleaning up yucky stuff when your mate gets sick, but marriage is about that stuff, too. Is she going to be there for you if her nails will get ruined? If it’s that superficial, the marriage won’t have a leg to stand on when things are less than perfect. Heart, guys, look to the heart.

  • Dave

    Sad that we all know it (in theory), but there are 99% of people out there who still want to follow what society tells them is right – perfect perfection in every trait – and they are still looking for it.

  • Aussie Oliver Shalom

    Give me a real woman with curves over a stick-figure anytime! I like mine built for comfort, not for speed. More cushin’ for the pushin’!

    It’s funny how society has changed – once upon a time rubenesque women with their voluptuous figures (mmmm…..drool…..) were considered the ideal, and skinny chicks were considered sickly and poor, now society has turned that on it’s head. Fine – leaves more top and bottom heavy ladies for guys like me that appreciate a real woman.

    Probelm is, so many of these curvy women hate the way they look based on society’s perception of them, causing depression and diets that only make them feel worse. We need to change this.

    • http://www.frumsatire.net Heshy Fried

      I have so many comments which I cannot write here – oy the stories I could tell

      • Aussie Oliver Shalom

        There are other websites for those stories to be told……plus pictures. Remember, there’s always more “bounce to the ounce” with a curvatious girl.

        • CityGirl

          Don’t be so quick to assume all heavier girls hate themselves.
          Many of us are happy, healthy individuals, with active social lives.
          Of course we could place a little blame on the male population for acting like we don’t exist 98% of the time, but that’s a different story.

  • Not so hot Chani

    This is why I’m so glad my husband and I met outside the shidduch world. We were classmates in med school, part of the same study group, and became close friends for two years before ever going out on a date. I’m not a looker (I don’t break mirrors as I walk past them, either, but I can be honest here), divorced parents, some not so great health issues in my family, etc. etc…let’s just say in the shidduch world I’d have had a hard time. Somehow, though, Hashem arranged things so that we’d have the chance to appreciate each other’s intelligence, quirky humor, grace under pressure, and all of the wonderful qualities which make us who we are and which have given us such a happy marriage for almost 20 years. As you come to love a person, looks just don’t figure into it all that much compared to all of these other things. I would even say that the more you care about somebody, the better looking the person seems to become – attraction can grow over time.

  • Broseph Lieberman

    NUMBER 21!!!!!! yes!!! first time long time but ya right now im in love with a girl whos definitely not the classic “hot chanie” to the point that when i first met her i thought she was really ugly and too fat for my tastes and i made an excuse to leave (very not proud of that) but then i got to know her better to the point where shes now my best friend and now its not that i dont mind her looks, ive come to find her absolutely gorgeous. tastes change if the person is that awesome. i like big girls better, straight up.

  • Anonymous

    I would like to offer an alternative way of thinking to you all, and I am curious of your feedback: If I spend 2 hours a day, 3-4 days a week in the (i. e. a gym rat), then why can’t I ask to go out with someone who also exercises a lot and is in shape. Isn’t this fair. If I was an average guy who eats whatever and doesn’t work out that much, then I agree that demanding a hottie would be cocky and unfair. But if I put in the effort and that’s a part of who I am and my interests, then I feel it’s ok to ask for someone similar. Thoughts?

    • Yoreh K’chetz (aka Phil)

      Anon,

      Just because you may find someone that shares your gym/fitness lifestyle now, doesn’t mean she’ll stay that way. She may not be able to handle much exercise once she gets pregnant, and when she’s up nights with a crying baby spending her energy and needs extra calories to be able to nurse, she may quickly lose her perfect figure.

      Some women work hard to get their figure back after giving birth, others have a tough time, especially as they have more kids and get older.

      It’s something that’s tough to foresee. Just my 2 cents.

    • Batsheva

      I’ll weigh in (no pun intended) on this one too. I think it’s perfectly legit to want a person with similar interests and concerns. If that means finding a gym rat, because you’re a gym rat, I have no problem with that. BUT the real issue is LOVING someone. If you love someone, then you don’t stop loving them just because their body changes. I know a woman who looked like a supermodel when she got married, and a few years later came down with an illness that required her to go on long term steroid therapy, which caused her weight to balloon up to over 200 pounds. Fortunately for her, her husband didn’t run off because he genuinely loved her. Before you marry anyone, ask yourself, “Is this someone I will still be able to love if, G-d forbid, she gets disfigured in any way (including obesity, which diet does not ALWAYS control)?” If the answer is no, then either she’s not the right person for you, or you’re too immature to get married.

  • Batsheva

    Loved the video. Dan Savage is one smart dude.

    • http://www.frumsatire.net Heshy Fried

      wait till you see my post on bestiality

      • A. Nuran

        Heshy, go to videosift.com and on there to /video/Dan-Savage-talks-about-his-weirdest-letter-he-has-received . Put down the drink before watching the video.

        Trust me on this.

  • http://www.michaltastik.com Michaltastik

    I know a convert told me one time how non-Jewish guys might have a woman who is a GOOOOOOOOOOD girlfriend. She cooks for him, she cleans for him, she does his laundry. She is a gooooood girlfriend, but he won’t bring her around his friends if she’s ugly. Somehow, she thought that wouldn’t be the case in the frum community. I don’t know how she fared in the shidduch market. She thought she was too good for me once she converted.

    I think it’s just another symptom of a society where everyone is driven to please the people around them instead of themselves. Furthermore, the definition of what’s fat is CRAAAAAAAAZY. We have men who generously offer to date a 2, EVEN though, Eva Longoria is a 0. In reality, when they make size a criteria, they shouldn’t be trying to get married. So, she gains 10 pounds and he wants to divorce her. It’s a shame that the rabbis don’t speak out about this. The men run after these girls who “look good” in the conventional sense and then they can’t understand why all the women they date are pushy and have a nasty attitude. They are demanding and expect their u know whats kissed constantly. They get mad when she cheats on them. Well, what do you expect when you run after a spoiled brat princess type. I know another one that divorced her husband because he read the paper instead of spending every second with her.

    Oh, and marry a woman like that and you’re sure to have kids that are messed up in the head.

    • Anonymous

      “I know another one that divorced her husband because he read the paper instead of spending every second with her.”

      I’m guessing that wasnt the only reason they divorced – please, before speaking of other people’s business, know all the facts; and in this case since it is someone else’s marriage, you probably don’t and shouldn’t know all the private details.

  • Anonymous

    He is right. Besides, physical attraction isn’t fully based on looks. That sounds a bit contradictory. Everybody is repulsed by different things, but that is the bottom line. I think that you can be attracted to many different types of people as long as they don’t have the physical feature you are repulsed by. Some people are repulsed by obesity, particularly if these people are thin, that’s just how it is. So they may not be attracted to obese people, but it doesn’t mean they won’t be attracted to someone a little bit chubby as opposed to stick-thin.
    Imagine a girl on two hypothetical dates. Sruly is super good-looking, and wealthy. He is considered a real catch. She looks at him and knows he is good-looking, but just doesn’t feel that pull. Yisroel, on the other hand, is a different story. He isn’t ugly, but he definitely isn’t super-attractive like Sruly, and he doesn’t have as much money. Yet after spending a few hours getting to know each of them, she just feels a strong pull for Yisroel that she can’t stay away from, as opposed to Sruly, who just didn’t do anything for her. Real chemistry is just a force within itself, and it has to do with connection more than looks.

  • Frum Esq.

    A client of mine was married to a high maintenance “10″. She had a hot body , beautiful hair, manicured nails, etc., but she made him feel like dirt. They did not have children because she was not going to ruin her perfect size 2 body. They spent their money on making HER happy. His second wife is curvy and low maintenance. Before you jump to conclusions,no, she is not ugly. She is quite beautiful in a natural sort of way. The two of them are living a happy life together. His friends have commented about how much happier he is now and seem to be more envious of his current spouse than they were of his first wife. Beauty is skin deep, but bitchy is to the bone.

  • sam

    Dan Savage is a clever guy, but he doesn’t have a moral compass.

  • Tirtza

    1. With Shidduch criteria= although many many girls/women I know do not like the picture with resume trends, I find most people,even though they think they have a set image of a dream guy/girl, in the end (and within certain basic categories) have a wide range of people they find attractive. For instance, I thought I knew for sure that I found darker guy with muscular builds more handsome. Yet, when it came to shidduchim, I fell absolutely in love with my future husband’s picture – all pale, thin (and starting to bald at 21) parts of him- and NOT BECAUSE I COULD SEE WHAT GOOD MIDDOS HE HAD) I really just thought he was hot. It was something about his eyes and mouth, I love it. He was outside my perfection category but one look and I wanted him…blush. Before I saw him I didn’t even think I was ready to get married, after that goofy picture I was ready.
    2. Besides the problems with shallow shidduch criteria- which I think is in the end deterimental to both people, is the post-baby body pressure. It is funny that all this pressure seems to come from women worried about what other women are going to say about them. I all the time hear women talk about how long it is taking one woman to get her body back, or how amazingly lucky another is to bounce right back into shape. After my first child it took me over a year to lose all the extra weight- just in time to gain it all again with my second pregnancy! I was horrified, but i truely believe my husband couldn’t have cared less. He usually seemed to not notice and when prompted always talked about how he enjoyed the “changes” in my body. After the second, third and fourth child I was much faster to lose the weight- maybe all the running after the little ones. But if I’m honest with myself as I run that treadmill late at night- I suspect my husband would be fine with, if not happy with the extra 5-10 lbs the babies can leave on a woman, he would probably prefer the extra time with me instead. It is most likely my own vanity and consciousness of what other WOMEN think that keeps me worried. Sad but true.
    PS. A lot of post-baby pressure starts from seamingly innocent comments- It is weird how in a culture so inbedded with ideas of modesty it seems totally OK for both men and women to comment to a women or about a women that they ‘have there shape back’ or lost the weight so quickly. It announces to everyone that this type of thing is noticed and judged. Not cool.

  • nachum

    love the ZAFTIG women

    send any hefty BTs in the NY area you know my way

  • http://www.facebook.com/ Kelli

    Call me wind because I am asbuotlely blown away.

  • Linda

    I find that tall men (more than 6 feet) do not mind my extra pounds, I guess they like short girls of any size.

    At a certain point extra weight is a definite health issue. Someone who doesn’t want to date a morbidly obese person may be concerned about that person’s longevity.

    We all are who we are, but I can’t fault someone who is looking for a healthy mate.

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