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Boteach writes pro-Gay article: The frummies are pissed

Vos Iz Neias has an editorial ripping Shmuely Boteach a new one (not through gay sex chas v’shalom) in which the Rabbi writing it goes through all the classic anti gay arguments including the fact that if we accept gays into our society everyone will turn to incest and marrying multiple spouses. I was kind of shocked he didn’t mention bestiality because every frummy knows deep in his heart that if they happened to have such a deep yetzer harah that wanted them to have sex with men, they might as well try out their domesticated goats as well – just like we did when we wandered the desert for 40 years, there were no mikvahs you know.

Now I just wanted to know how a gay lifestyle isn’t compatible with a Jewish one?

I was just wondering how it isn’t compatible, I mean we all do stuff that if there happened to be a beis din around we would all be killed – on a daily basis no less. I’m pretty sure I used a slotted spoon for coleslaw on shabbos more than once and one time I let this non-religious older Jew make me tea on shabbos because I didn’t want to hurt their feelings – so I’m a goner, kaput, thrown off the cliff in a public spectacle with the children throwing stones at me.

I have been asked multiple times, why I think the orthodox Jews despise the gays so much and my simple answer is that it’s disgusting. I myself don’t think it’s sick, I know loads of folks straight who want to hit it from the back door – I’m sure Freud would have something to say about that, but frummies think anything openly sexual is morally reprehensible (heck in yeshiva the Rabbis considered any girl who wore pants naked mamish naked!!!) so you can imagine how they feel about something they view something like gays. Sex in general isn’t talked about much, I used to think you peed into girls butts (you can, but I’m not into the golden shower stuff, though I’ve always wondered about the cholov yisroel milk company called Golden Flow) and whenever I hear gays mentioned, it’s usually followed by “oh that’s disgusting”, but just because you think something is disgusting and yes I wouldn’t enjoy watching two men getting it on, I didn’t enjoy two girls one cup either – but some people do. Disgusting, when it comes to sexual practice is pretty relative.

What on earth is authentic Judaism?

The author of the editorial slamming Boteach keeps talking about authentic Judaism, is there such a thing. Judaism seems to evolved over the centuries and we really don;t know what was practiced then. I doubt that what we practice today has any resemblance to the Judaism of yore. They sure as hell didn’t wear black hats and dark suits, but somehow that has been deemed authentic Judaism by many folks. Authentic Judaism held that slavery was cool and we rocked it holy war style because God told us it was our land – that wouldn’t be moral today – the UN told us it was our land – thank God we don’t have Jewish Jihad.

I imagine that in 50 years from now, the moral fabric of frummidom will be broken down and we will look back on these times – the same way we look back at the 60’s when it comes to civil rights, yes I’m comparing the two. There were plenty of religious folks that thought of blacks as lesser than human and had the right to be discriminated against.

Of course therein lies a big problem I have with the liberals, if you are anti gay marriage they call you a bigot and I don;t think that’s correct – there are genuinely some folks that want marriage to kept as the traditional definition, I don’t agree with this – simply because it’s retarded, but as my father used to say “the masses are asses” and some people are nuts about the English language, which begs me to wonder what they think about the fact that when you combine two products we tend to say “marry them” together.

{ 50 comments… add one }
  • Phil October 21, 2010, 3:20 PM

    First comment.
    Golden Flow milk, laughed out loud.

    • jimmy October 27, 2010, 2:48 PM

      I’m suprised it didn’t come out your nose!

  • Phil October 21, 2010, 3:25 PM

    Second comment too, seems like Boteach has gone off the political correct deep end with this article.

    • A. Nuran October 22, 2010, 12:56 AM

      Boteach has always had an eye for publicity. I have no idea what he actually believes. Maybe he doesn’t either.

  • Gordon Davidescu October 21, 2010, 3:26 PM

    The editorial in question is here :


  • G*3 October 21, 2010, 4:05 PM

    > if we accept gays into our society everyone will … marrying multiple spouses

    You mean like Yaakov Avinu and Shlomo HaMelech?

  • Eli October 21, 2010, 4:27 PM

    The problem with gay marriage is because you have both putzes sitting in Kollel – there’s no one to bring home the dough.

    • Telz Angel October 21, 2010, 5:04 PM

      Both putzes indeed. That’s double geval-dick!

      Telz was alleged to have its share of problems with bucherim getting some “help” from their roommates in the art of busting a nut or two (also known as the Yakoff scandal). The non queers there would just use a good old fashioned playboy (note, for the record: there should still be remnants of one inside the metal door of dorm room 203, if my memory serves correctly).

      Ironically, had a more informed approach to teenage developmental psychology been understood and accepted, I suspect that the Yakoff scandal would not have taken place.

    • Sergeant J October 21, 2010, 6:16 PM

      Yeah, and a “kollel” guy working might make people wonder what the kollellites are really doing all day that makes their time so special… and they might start making sure that those in kollel are not just shmoozing and talking, next thing you know, the kollel will be smaller (in some places, nonexistent) and only have dedicated learners in it, instead of lazy schmucks who want an excuse to do nothing all day…… and you can’t have that…

      • Batsheva October 21, 2010, 10:14 PM


  • Dave October 21, 2010, 4:47 PM

    No matter how Judaism has changed over the years, at its core it believes that the Torah is truth. Homosexuality is expressly forbidden and is the only sin called an “abomination”.

    To suggest that Judaism can somehow accommodate it because our tradition isn’t pure is ludicrous, this isn’t hats and jackets, this is the word of G-d, deal with it!
    Oh no! We don’t share America’s values what a shock!

    • Heshy Fried October 22, 2010, 1:35 AM

      Funny because dishonestly in business, eating bugs and a bunch of other things are called abominations as well.

      • Dave October 22, 2010, 7:37 AM

        The key is to not openly disregard the laws and say they are false. People have shortcomings, if someone gives in to temptation and steals or whatever so be it. But if that same person says that there is nothing wrong with stealing then we have a major problem, you cannot directly contradict the Torah and still call yourself a practicing Jew, black hat or not.
        What are we three years old? If they can be dishonest in business why can’t I be gay??
        On a side note, dishonesty in business and eating bugs are not called abominations, they are prohibited.

        • Frumsatire Fan October 22, 2010, 11:04 AM

          ?? ????? ?’ ?????? ???-??? ??? ??? ??? ???
          parshat ki tetse, re. cheating by using different sets of scales and measures – just one of many examples of the use of that word. Get your tanach straight before you get so opinionated.

          • Frumsatire Fan October 22, 2010, 11:07 AM

            (that is) ki toevat hashem elokecha kol oseh eleh col oseh avel (dvarim 25.16)

        • Dave October 24, 2010, 1:20 PM

          You mean something like an Orthodox Rabbi telling people that cheating on taxes was fine?

          • Dave October 24, 2010, 1:21 PM

            (Note: Different Dave)

  • Anonymous October 21, 2010, 5:06 PM

    Heshy, I will never see a Golden Flow bottle the same again! Thanks for ruining my naiveté! Oh Man!

  • Jewish Blogmeister October 21, 2010, 5:34 PM

    I don’t think it’s fair to say frummies are pissed although it may sound funny. Most frummies (if they are truly “frummy”) never even heard of the dude (Boteach). More importantly very few in the yeshiva world take this him seriously. He’s considered an outcast by many. Let him write this and that…who wants to waste time refuting what he writes?

  • PunkTorah October 21, 2010, 5:41 PM

    You can’t use “stoning gays” to defend the Judaism-has-evolved argument, because many religious people WOULD kill gays if they could…Long Live the Sanhedrin, right?

    I always go back to the Captive Woman argument instead. It goes something like this:

    Me: Do you think we should do what the Torah tells us to do?
    Dumb Ass: Of course. It’s Kiddush HaShem.
    Me: OK. I was thinking about getting married. But JDate is expensive. I think I’m gonna go murder some guy in Iraq and kidnap his wife.
    Dumb Ass: that’s terrible You can’t do that!
    Me: Sure I can. Captive Woman. If you kill a woman’s husband, father and brother you can have her as your wife. You cut her fingernails, cut her hair, make her wear a robe and cry for 30 days. After that, you can marry her.
    Dumb Ass: But that’s different. That’s back when the Jewish people we were at war.
    Me: Oh, OK. So we’re at war with Hamas, right? So it’s not cool to rape Iraqi women but it’s OK to rape Palestinian ones?
    Dumb Ass: No. That’s back in the old days. No one does that stuff.
    Me: Well, then we’re all completely off the derech then. We need to get right with HaShem and go marry us some Muslim chicks.
    Dumb Ass: No, see, it’s a metaphor for not giving into the yetzer hara of rape.
    Me: Oh, OK. Well I think kashrut is a metaphor too. So I’m gonna go eat a cheeseburger.

    • Dovybear October 21, 2010, 5:57 PM

      Have you seen a shrink yet about your multiple personalties and talking to yourself?
      Oh and almost every word of your imagined conversation was nonsensical, but seeing as you won’t agree with a word I say, I’ll leave it to Phil or someone to try and knock it into you coz, frankly, I can’t be arsed anymore.

    • Yid Vicious October 21, 2010, 8:07 PM

      That’s it. You nailed it perfectly.

      Dovybear must have misunderstood you. Or worse.

    • Talia October 22, 2010, 7:44 AM

      You are totally off the derech if you don’t marry some Muslim chicks.

      PT, you crack me up. Best imagined convo EVER!

    • Chris_B October 23, 2010, 11:02 AM

      I get it that snark can be fun but what is your point here? I’m not seeing the connection between the start and the end. I’m also guessing that the standard Talmudic angle of “once in 70 years is too much” is not so much fun to use right?

  • whoa5771 October 21, 2010, 6:46 PM

    the only authetic yidishkeit is the oy yoy oy oy yeshivhseeee yidishkeit the like the Vilan Gaon Melech Hamoshiach. everyone else is a kfira or apikores

  • OfftheDwannaB October 21, 2010, 9:03 PM

    Shmuley has a great couple of lines at the end:

    “I have countless gay friends whose greatest fear, like that of so many straight people, is to end up alone. Should we just throw the book at these people? The Bible says, “It is not good for man to be alone.“ All I ask from my religious brethren is this: Even as you oppose gay relationships because of your beliefs, please be tortured by your opposition. Understand that when our most deeply held beliefs conflicts with our basic humanity, we should feel the tragedy of the conflict, not find convenient scapegoats upon whom to blame America’s ills.”

    The only problem is that in the sentence preceding them he fingers his own scapegoat for no less than “the end of western civilization”:

    “But gay marriage doesn’t represent the end of Western civilization. The real killer is the tsunami of divorce and the untold disruption to children who become yo-yos going from house to house on weekends.”

    As always, Shmuley’s basic problem is that he’s intrinsically, inseparably, full of sh!t. His arguments seem nice, but lack basic logical continuity, because he’s covering up his secret agenda with palatable pseudo-logic. (An objective observer might find more than a passing interest in Shmuley’s own family situation, notably his parents divorce early in his childhood.)

    • anonymous October 21, 2010, 10:02 PM

      “The only problem is that in the sentence preceding them he fingers his own scapegoat for no less than “the end of western civilization”:”

      fingers his own scapegoat, hmmm. Fingering goats sounds pretty darn much like bestiality to me, which is ultimately where homosexuality takes a society, right? Then it’s solved: gay marriage leads to fingering goats! Thank you Rabbi Boteach, or, as I believe your people are fond of saying, Hazaq U’Barukh!

    • Batsheva October 21, 2010, 10:25 PM

      You know what? I’m not a fan of Shmuley’s either, but this was really one of his much better pieces, and there was certainly nothing wrong with his statements about divorce (his own family history notwithstanding). As someone who has been working with young people for the last 30 years, I’ve seen first hand the damage that divorce can do in scores of kids. But more than my own personal experience, countless studies have backed this up. Children of divorce are significantly more likely to get into drugs and alcohol and wind up in prison than children from stable, two-parent homes. They also do worse in school, and are more likely to end up divorced themselves. This is not to say that a couple should always stay together for the sake of the children. I’m not saying that at all. In some situations, you have to choose the lesser of two evils. But my point is that divorce (when kids are involved) IS an evil.

      • OfftheDwannaB October 21, 2010, 11:42 PM

        Nothing wrong with decrying the evils of divorce. My problem with Shmuley Boteach is his self-serving agenda. Nothing is sacred. He’ll use Judaism, celebrity, sex, progressive opinions, anything, to sell himself.
        It would be just plain sad if he wasn’t trying to be the face of Judaism in America. (On his site, he actually calls himself America’s Rabbi.) Like I said, he uses and perverts anything he can get his claws into to advance his main objective. This pisses me off since I think Judaism is a good and true thing given by God.
        (As such, his watering down of Judaism in giving a Rabbinic stamp of approval for gays to have sex so that they won’t be lonely- directly against what Judaism presents as God’s word- does not sit well with me. I am conflicted by it, as Shmuley is, but I’m not going to say to anybody, “Well, God just wants you to keep 611 commandments, because not being lonely trumps God’s own word.”)

  • Telz Angel October 21, 2010, 10:25 PM

    Heshy, is my comment stuck in your blog queue again? ‘cmon don’t you think a Telzer has something to say about gays?

    • OfftheDwannaB October 21, 2010, 11:43 PM

      Yeah mine too.

      • Heshy Fried October 22, 2010, 1:36 AM

        I work nights and usually am riding my bike during the day – so spam waits till the evening after work

  • Batsheva October 21, 2010, 10:29 PM

    Heshy, I’m sitting here mamish naked (well, fully clothed, but wearing pants) laughing out loud at this one. But more than the funny, I loved what you had to say. You’re a good man, Heshy Fried.

    • Talia October 22, 2010, 7:46 AM


      Though I am not mamish naked because I have a skirt on instead of pants but I think my collarbone is showing so I might be dafka naked instead of mamish.

  • mgarelick October 21, 2010, 11:28 PM


    I had tended to agree with your point (that opposition to same-sex marriage is not equal to bigotry), but I’ve come to a different way of thinking about it.

    I value clarity of thinking and language, so I never like it when words are thrown around recklessly. I also think it’s very important not to talk past each other or needlessly alienate.

    But. I think the very root of opposition to SSM is the belief that same-sex relationships are fundamentally dissimilar from opposite-sex relationships, that gay men and lesbians simply do not love their partners the same way that straight people do. Isn’t that a basic denial of common humanity? And isn’t “a basic denial of common humanity” pretty much of a definition of bigotry?

    I understand that people get upset when they are “accused” of bigotry. Maybe we should think and speak of bigotry as a malady rather than a sin? There’s no shame in being sick. Denying that you’re sick, though — that can’t end well.

    • OfftheDwannaB October 22, 2010, 1:55 AM

      Bigotry was voted out of the DSM in 1973. Er-hem, sorry, that was homosexuality.

  • Anonymous October 21, 2010, 11:55 PM

    I think the reason that Orthodox Jews are so obsessed with hating gays is that they hang out in the Mikvah a bit too much. All those naked men give rise to unpleasant thoughts. Imagine the disgust they must feel at the thought that two of those pot-bellied, hairy, shriveled-up, pasty dude getting it on. The Mikvah might be very well be the worlds greatest collection of ugly, out-of-shape, and quite frankly freakish looking specimen the human race has ever known. The scene is so horrific in fact, that even actual gay teens go straight from revulsion. I hear that Jonah has now resorted to Mikvah tours as a last resort for the hopeless holdouts. For all those skeptics who claim that being gay is genetically hardwired, just bring your gay friend to the Mikvah and you will discover that it is anything butt.

  • idiedtryin October 22, 2010, 12:45 AM

    Well done.

    Enough said.

  • Just Saying October 22, 2010, 9:02 AM

    I’ve read what Mr. Boteach has to say and here is my thoughts:

    While he is right on target with certain issues, I do tend to think he goes off tangent sometimes. As far as homosexuality vs. the Orthodox communities goes, I personally feel we should accept Gays and treat them like any other normal being. I’m not trying to sound touchy feely here. No I don’t agree that we should embrace that kind of depraved life style with open arms in our communities either. But gay or straight, they are people.Gay people do exist in all Orthodox circles but in small numbers. Like most of us, they are sexually moral and don’t act out on their homosexual tendencies. Its ironic how the frummies are going ballistic over this issue while they have no problem with Rebbe meeting with little Shmuely after school hours. I guess child predators are given more honor and reverence on those circles. Between you and me, I think its more of an abomination to rob a child’s innocence than it is to be openly gay.

  • Avrumy October 22, 2010, 1:15 PM

    On behalf of the Orthodox g*y Jews, thank you Heshy for being a voice of reason and a source of information mixed with humor for the Frum Satire community.
    Many of the replies show a heightened sensitivity to the issue. It is important to note (yet again) that homozexuality is not assur, but certain acts between men are. And remember, like it or not, we are in every shul, school and neighborhood. Sometimes married, usually not. Sometimes out, usually not. Black hat, leather yarmulke, or knit kipa.

    For another perspective, please see http://www.thejewishweek.com/editorial_opinion/opinion/cost_standing_idly

    Funniest line of the week: The problem with g*y marriage is because you have both putzes sitting in Kollel – there’s no one to bring home the dough.
    And yes, some mikvah scenes could turn a man straight. As if. ?

  • Chris_B October 23, 2010, 11:07 AM

    “Orthodox g*y Jews”

    goy Jews?

  • :-) October 24, 2010, 6:02 AM

    Being single at your age doesn’t help you case for heterosexuality

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