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Kosher Racism

I asked the author of a new blog called Meshuga Parents if I could post the following piece that was up on the blog.

Yesterday, my tichel clad wife took our son to the park. Even though it was about 5 or 6 pm-ish, there was a fair amount of kids still running around. My son began to play with a little boy, who was not Jewish, black and about a year older than he is. My wife usually begins to chat up the mom of a kid my son suddenly becomes friendly with, so they began to schmooze. She was very friendly and the kids were having a lot of fun playing together. The park was full of mostly Jewish kids and after my wife and the other mom parted ways, something happened.

She (my wife) began to get the dirtiest looks from every single Jewish mom in the park. After a few minuted of this, the general unspoken consensus within the playground was “How could you possibly let your child play with one of them.” She didn’t really pay any mind to it, but did tell me about it when she got back.

What on earth is wrong with two toddlers playing together? If you want to play the whole “bad influence” card, don’t even go there. These kids are way to young to be influencing each other in any way shape or form. And even if bad influence was a factor, these naysayers had no idea what the kids were doing. Why does being black constitute the automatic assumption of being a bad influence? This display of disapproval was pure racism and nothing more. I could talk for hours about how I think racism is evil, but I’m only going to talk about it within the context of Jewish parenting. Raising children to be racist is pure sin. There is no merit in the world to come for people who raise their children to have sinat chinam (baseless hatred), and just to clarify, racism is sinat chinam in its purest form.

Unfortunately, it is acceptable in the frum community to be racist. My brother went to a very prominent yeshiva in the Flatbush community. Some might even call it, the yeshiva. He related to me about how racist his rebbe was and how he ranted and raved about how dirty and degenerate the shvartzes are. This man is supposed to be an educator and he is acting no better than the instructors of the Hitler Youth. Is his Torah really worth anything? Sickening.

The beauty of childhood is that there are no biases, preconceived notions or prejudices. These two children were sharing a moment of fun together and that is a beautiful thing. To frum people who think its kosher to be racist, I say this: If you want to raise your children to be good Jews, they first need to be good people. Start by teaching them about the beauty of humanity. Kavod Habriot. Separating people (especially children) based on their differences teaches hatred. I’m not saying send your kids out to play with anyone. G-d knows there are plenty of bad kids out there, Jewish or not. Use your best judgment, but don’t make that decision based on skin color. Raising children exposed to diversity will make them better people, and it certainly wouldn’t hurt their parents either.

{ 243 comments… add one }
  • Come on August 11, 2010, 2:19 PM

    They would have given her dirty looks no matter what the color of the goy was.

    • Anonymous August 11, 2010, 2:46 PM

      That does SO not making it any better. Choosing to not expose your children to non-Jews or Jewish or non-Jewish people of other races is extremely narrow minded and should not be tolerated by any community. While the frum community may choose to segregate themselves, most people would choose not to be judged or segregated based on color or religion.

      • A. Nuran August 11, 2010, 2:55 PM

        Of course if she heard a Gentile tell her kids “Don’t play with the filthy Jew” she would have screamed for days about antisemitism.

        You’d think we’d know better by now.

        • sergeant J August 11, 2010, 4:18 PM

          Sadly, centuries of persecution plus coming to America seems to have the same effect on many immigrants, from the sheriff in Maricopa County AZ, to the racist rabbis you see and hear from time to time out there… some get to be as racist and bigoted as the people they came here to get away from.

          • Mahla August 11, 2010, 7:25 PM

            Seriously Sergeant J! Like the Pilgrims fleeing religious persecution and terror in England so that they could do the exact same things themselves in America!

            • G*3 August 11, 2010, 10:55 PM

              > Like the Pilgrims fleeing religious persecution and terror in England so that they could do the exact same things themselves in America!

              The Pilgrims came to America via Holland, not straight from England, and the “persecution” they were fleeing was the refusal of the government to allow them to fully implement the draconian rules of their fundementalist sect.

              The idea that they came to America to escape persecution and bask in freedom is a myth that meshes with the post-revolution American ideal of freedoms.

        • Anonymous August 12, 2010, 11:50 PM

          whos we nuran. your not us.

    • Anonymous August 11, 2010, 3:43 PM

      Parents who look for looks so that they can go around bemoaning racism among jews and patting themselves on the back for being enlightened, will find them wherever they look.

      • Anonymous August 11, 2010, 4:28 PM

        its not hard to find looks whether youre looking for them or not. and thats not an excuse for giving someone a nasty attitude.

    • Anonymous August 11, 2010, 11:33 PM

      umm this story is totally bogus. first of all, jewish kids play with none jewish kids at the park all the time. i know, i currently live in flatbush and used to live in boro park. you always see chassidish or regular yeshivish kids play with non jews. go to any park in the jewish area tomorrow and you will see it for yourself. as for the story,
      “She (my wife) began to get the dirtiest looks from every single Jewish mom in the park. After a few minuted of this, the general unspoken consensus within the playground was “How could you possibly let your child play with one of them.” ”
      am i the only one that realized that no one actually said anything. as a matter of fact i think this guys wife was imagining it. the whole story is based on this aforementioned quote and if you pay attention, you realize that this lady got some type of feeling and started getting dirty looks though there is absolutely nothing verifiable about that. as a matter of fact, when i read it i was thinking, wow this lady is really insecure with her kids playing with non jewish kids, shes even imagining other peoples disapproval.

      • Michal August 12, 2010, 1:30 PM

        Of course its bogus anybody with half a brain could see that. Heshy is just trying to bring a topic of conversation. What should he say: Frum jews are racists, discuss…

        • Anonymous August 12, 2010, 10:26 PM

          So he’s assuming that jews are racist though there is no varifiable proof for the sake of discussing the none existent racism. Basically, if jews were racist, they why are they so racist? That’s a really stupid questions. Its like asking, if theoretically the ku klux klan was run by a bunch of black people than why do all black people hate themselves? Its really a very very stupid discussion. It seems that there are jewish bigots in the world. They are all on this site commenting there bigotted garbage against religious jews.

          • michal August 12, 2010, 10:31 PM

            Firstly thats exactly why he posted an obviuosly made up story, to avoid your argument of not having verifiable proof. Secondly stupid discussion or not this is the 127th comment going up

            • Anonymous August 12, 2010, 11:53 PM

              your assuming he made it up. its pretty clear he didnt though.

              • Anonymous August 13, 2010, 6:50 AM

                He didnt it was on some other blog. Its pretty clear the story was made up

                • Sergeant J August 13, 2010, 6:56 AM

                  Sorry, you are more fake than the story sounds.

                  • Anonymous August 13, 2010, 7:03 AM

                    I dont know what that means, sorry

                    • Sergeant J August 13, 2010, 7:09 AM

                      It means shouting “FAKE” at things is trolling, and anonymous trolls are not real people. In reality, you would be afraid to actually say anything.

                    • Genarl K August 13, 2010, 8:04 AM

                      You of course realize you did the same thing, by just shouting “fake”. Oh except that I have real reasons why the story is fake, the story sounds as real as your rank “every single” jewish mom gave her looks? Please. It gets better, they then have a “unspoken consensus” I dont know whether they taught you this in your branch of the service but ESP isnt real.
                      Im not annoymouns anymore so hope youre happy

                    • Genarl K August 13, 2010, 8:06 AM

                      In case you were wondering “Genarl” Is how they spell General in my army.

                    • Sergeant J August 13, 2010, 8:38 AM

                      Hmm, Sergeant is how the actual militaries spell it, including the USAF, which is the agency that gave me my rank. And J is the first initial of my first name, Jason. So far, the feeling that everyone has a consensus by the way they are staring at someone being “odd” to you just shows that you have had little interaction with real people, and not much else. Hesh can see me on Facebook, and knows which networks I am in. Since you need a military email address to be in a military network, like I am, he can vouch for that. Your mom yelling at you from the kitchen to get out of the basement and go look for a job will not make your “name” on here any more real.

                    • Sergeant J August 13, 2010, 8:39 AM

                      And while I do not know 100% if the story is real, if it is “as real as my rank”, then it’s pretty damn real.

                    • Genarl K August 13, 2010, 9:21 AM

                      The Fantasia Air Force spells it Genarl and theyre military victory rate over the past 30 years is about equal to the US’s. On facebook I am a member of the much smarter than you network. As you know to be a member of the network you need a smarter than you email address which the pope can see.
                      Oh and K is the initial of my first name K1ke

  • Perfection August 11, 2010, 2:39 PM

    I would tell her not to be so self conscious!

    Jews aren’t racists we hate everyone.

    • Anonymous August 11, 2010, 2:48 PM

      I think she was being more aware of her surroundings than self-conscious. An maybe, just maybe, she was even feeling sensitivity for those that were being unduly judged in this circumstance.

      As for Jews hating everyone, that just goes to show that as a group and society we still haven’t learned much. Shall we assume g-d will continue to ensure our persecution for thousands of years to come until those in the frum communities can finally get that it’s not all about kosher and shabbos?

      • Perfection August 11, 2010, 3:43 PM

        How about you remove the rod from your ass, it was a joke.

        • Anonymous August 11, 2010, 4:48 PM

          Public forums about serious topics (satire or not) may not be the choice place for you to joke about racism in a response.

          • anon 2 August 11, 2010, 5:05 PM

            actualy it is the best place

            • AyOh August 11, 2010, 7:32 PM

              Since no one knows who you are? or since you’re so perfect that you’re always right?

              • Perfection August 12, 2010, 9:54 AM


          • Perfection August 12, 2010, 9:55 AM

            What do you think comedy stems from? Making fun of serious topics. Take a xanax and go lie down.

            • Guest August 12, 2010, 12:47 PM

              Your bullshitting about a serious topic does a good deal to further the impression of many O. Jews being racist.

          • j August 12, 2010, 12:23 PM

            Talk about not getting a joke this is the frumsatire comment board bro ease up. Not someone’s living room.

            • AyOh August 12, 2010, 7:55 PM

              Thank g-d for that. If half of these comments were made in my living rooms, these guests would not be returning.

              • Anonymous August 13, 2010, 9:23 AM

                so stop returning here

  • Mitch45 August 11, 2010, 2:39 PM

    Sadly, despite millenia of prejudice against us, frum Jews can be some of the worst bigots out there. Its a terrible shame, not to mention a Chilul Hashem.

    • A. Nuran August 11, 2010, 2:52 PM

      Strangely enough it’s only the much-maligned liberal, Reform, Conservative and secular Jews who have learned the correct lesson. They understand that only by engaging with reality and being a force for positive change can they hope to survive, make useful relations and prosper.

      The “True Torah” reactionary-Orthodox have only learned how to fear and hate everyone who isn’t part of their increasingly restricted and out-of-touch little world. The irony is their communities only survive on the generosity of Gentiles and less Orthodox Jews who provide the money to keep them going.

      • rebecca August 11, 2010, 3:30 PM

        a. nuran, i feel like telling to you keep writing. i find myself agreeing with every point you’ve raised.

      • sergeant J August 11, 2010, 4:21 PM

        Sorry, Reform and Conservative do not totally get off the hook on this one, they have their own biases, for starters, against Frum Jews. I began school in a JCC in a small town,and remember Reform kids making fun of the “Frummi yummis” that they saw when in Israel and NY. LIberals are just as biased, in slightly different directions.

        • rebecca August 11, 2010, 5:41 PM

          gee. having been on both sides of the spectrum as a bt from conservative judaism and now otd, i can understand the bias against frum jews. my kids sat in a hasidishe yeshiva and were taught that men who don’t wear yarmulkes are not jews. trying to convince them that their grandfathers are, in fact, jewish was a bit insane. jewish kids who are not orthodox are often treated as if inferior and because of their upbringing must be saved by kiruv workers who wage battle to save these jewish neshamas. (yes, i’m being extremely sarcastic here.) they get to college and are accosted by campus rabbis and again, the message is that all that they’ve learned is wrong. perhaps if the people at the orthodox synagogue next door to the conservative synagogue that i attended as a kid, didn’t routinely call us all “goyishe jews”, maybe there’d be more tolerance from non-orthodox kids. and here’s an interesting one: i grew up in brooklyn and never heard the word “frum” until i hit college, so i’m pretty impressed that small town reform kids even knew to use it as a taunt.

          • sergeant J August 11, 2010, 6:50 PM

            See? Now here you are talking about a spiral… One side insults the other, up and back, for every generation since the Reform movement began…. Sinat Chinam, both sides…

            • rebecca August 11, 2010, 7:03 PM

              ironically, antisemitism here is the best answer. what better cure for sinat chinam than a good old fashioned pogrom to bring all the jews together. my guess is that the shtetl rabbi wasn’t telling non-observant yitzi that he couldn’t share his chicken coop while the cosacks rode through…. : /
              but i apologize, this is truly off the topic, although, i think that until we solve the problems that exist within judaism, we really have no right to criticize and judge others when we (as a whole people) don’t even uphold our own moral teachings.

            • rebecca August 11, 2010, 7:23 PM

              and just as an aside, we all know that the temple being destroyed bc of sinat chinam is a big hoax then, right? since jews all lived happily (and ashkenazily) during that time and sinat chinam didn’t exist until the reform movement began….

              • Guest August 12, 2010, 12:54 PM

                As a BT, I get more hostile stares from Conservative Jews than I do from Orthodox Jews. All the time.

                Secular parents making their BT kids feel absolutely miserable for their choice, and throwing all sorts of road blocks in the path of their observance is a very common story.

                Secular Jewish liberalism is not always about loving humanity. Sometimes its about actively rejecting Judaism, or anything relating to traditional values (many secular Jews absolutely hate Christianity). There are plenty of obnoxious secular Jews. Plenty.

                • Phil August 12, 2010, 1:04 PM


                  You nailed it right on the head. I know Jews that would rather see their kids marry non Jews and even blacks, just so they will appear politically correct to there peers. Yet they would freak if their kids came home with a frummy.

                  Then you have the so called liberals that side with terrorist groups like hamas and fatah instead of siding with their own.

                  I don’t know how these Jews define themselves as “liberals”, I think “traitors” is a more accurate description.

                  • Sergeant J August 13, 2010, 1:43 AM

                    And I dated a girl who’s grandfather tried to bribe me, literally with a blank check, to stop dating his granddaughter, because I was not “pure white”. He told her he’d rather her marry any white person, even a non-Jew, than to marry any dark skinned person, no matter how Jewish. He got his wish in the end, as I am relatively sure she did marry the non-Jew she dated after me. And she went to BY…

              • Sergeant J August 13, 2010, 2:36 AM

                Umm, sinat chinam between reform, conservative, and orthodox Jews, as the groups are defined today, did not begun until the current groups defined themselves into those groupings… Sinat chinam in general very likely predates Judaism altogether.

            • TO SERGEANT J August 13, 2010, 8:59 AM

              sergeant j, this is where you misunderstand an important concept. we are not taught to hate or even dislike reform jews. we are taught to love all jews regardless.
              but that doesnt mean we endorse reform judaism. you seem to confuse the jew with the movement he is affiliated with. i love jews even if they are j for j, but i still dont like j4j. same with you, i dont agree and even dislike what reform had done with judaism. but i still love all reform jews. its not a complicated concept really. as a matter of fact, you could go on to any orthodox blog or site and you will never see them bashing reform or conservative jews, you will see them bashing the reform and conservative movement or those who are its leaders but the followers. on the other hand you see that reform and conservative and left wing modern orthodox jews constantly bashing frum jews. not the from mindset or way of judaism but the jews themselves. now thats sinat chinam. so now i ask you, who is truly guilty of the charges you have laid?

              • Sergeant J August 13, 2010, 9:03 AM

                Sorry, but I have frum Jews bash individual members of as well as the movements of conservative and reform. It would be nice to live in the utopia you live in where this has never occurred.

                • Sergeant J August 13, 2010, 9:04 AM

                  …have seen, and heard frum…..

        • Puzzled August 11, 2010, 7:46 PM

          Well it’s worth noting that orthodoxy is a choice.

        • Julie August 12, 2010, 2:33 AM

          Considering all the sh1t that many Orthodox and Haredim do to persecute and malign Conservative and Reform Jews, you should be glad that they were only calling people “frummi yummis” and not “corrupt c0cksuckers.”

          • sergeant J August 12, 2010, 2:55 AM

            This was the 80’s, and these were elementary school kids.. in th US, not Israel.
            I am sure the parents had worse to say…
            Frankly, with an attitude like that, you are just as bad as the people you malign. They go after others for things they do, and apparently, you do too…
            The problem with being a moderate is that extremists on all sides hate you..

          • Anonymous August 12, 2010, 11:55 PM

            how intelligent julie.

      • FrumGer August 11, 2010, 6:37 PM

        Bullshixx not true… Conservs and reformers, just have become sooo Goyishe that they fit in better with goyim then they do frumkeit which is why they HATE frumkeit soooo much. we ARE goy kadosh, and kedushah is all about Separation. we really keep kosher only to be not be like goyim. we do much of what we do to be totally separate from goyim. This is a treifah medina. that being said i have a lot of goy friends that I love dearly. And I have a goy friend of mine that just moved to the area and he is living with me right now till he gets on his feet- its funny because he keeps kosher in the house and eats treifah out, much like many jews i know.. :O)

        • AyOh August 11, 2010, 7:24 PM

          Really? Referring to your friend as a “goy” is just soooo open minded. Good to see you have token friends.

          • Anonymous August 11, 2010, 9:39 PM

            are you high? Now a goy cant be called a goy. oh right becaue we are all the same. How could you be so naive?

          • FrumGer August 12, 2010, 9:22 AM

            I call my friend a freaking goy and he laughs… he knows what it means… A goy is a goy, period. the word gentile i seriously hate that word. Gentile. its such a d bag word. Goy is a thousand times better in my opinion. And how about the term- non jew. that one is almost worse. I stay clear of pretentious and hyper sensitive pc terminology.

            • Michael August 12, 2010, 1:19 PM

              Dude, stop making us geirim look bad. Being Jewish is not about making fun of non-Jews. See a psychiatrist if you have to.

              • FrumGer August 12, 2010, 6:44 PM

                dude chill out man, maybe you should see a psychiatrist if you think that calling a goy a goy makes us look bad, some self loathing problems or inadequacy issues or something…. try and reconcile with the fact that its really not that big of a deal…

                • AyOh August 12, 2010, 7:57 PM

                  The titles we give others and ourselves can make all the difference in the world. How is calling your friend a goy any different than calling a Jew a ki-e or a black a n-gger? Just because it’s widely used doesn’t make it correct.

                  • Anonymous August 12, 2010, 9:25 PM

                    WhoA hold it right there did you just call a Jew a “Jew” and a black a “black” just because its widely used doesnt make it correct.

                  • Anonymous August 12, 2010, 9:58 PM

                    WhoA hold it right there did you just call a Jew a “Jew” and a black a “black” just because its widely used doesnt make it correct

                  • FrumGer August 13, 2010, 12:01 AM

                    Ayoh— Firstly I dont mean Goy like Ngger or Kike, i mean goy like goy. what do you think is written in the Torah when referring to goyim? I dont use the euphemism gentile. I use the actual word written in the Torah that I find valuable. Just like I say Shalom instead of peace, Just like I say Succos instead of feast of tabernacles. I dont give a crap what kind of negitive connatation is attached, That could not possibably mean less to me. its all in context. do i use goy to refer to goyishe things and sometimes I am disscussing things that I dont like or sound negitive when using the term goy? yep. sometimes. DO i sometimes use it in a neutral flippant way, yep most of the time. But to me thats the Torah word for nation Gimmel Vav Yod and thats what I use. its all in context. get off your high horse… Read your Torah its in there.

                    • Anonymous August 13, 2010, 2:49 AM

                      goyim don’t know goy is insulting. frum ger is a convert/goy so he wouldn’t know the connotations.

        • rebecca August 11, 2010, 7:30 PM

          that’s silly. nobody hates frumkeit. we just like being able to make plans on saturdays. it’s paranoia like that against the non-odox that causes tension. (and what’s a “reformer”? is that like an “orthodoxer”?)
          as for non-odox jews like myself, we play a vital role in judaism. think of all the time that is spent learning and davening and all of the money that is spent on kiruv. without us, those organizations wouldn’t exist. we’ve created jobs galore. we’ve given chabad a reason to travel the world and set up shop in remote regions of whoknowswhere. we’ve gotten you folks on to college campuses. without us, how many in the kiruv world would be hanging out in phish lots and chilling at shows?
          ; )

          • FrumGer August 12, 2010, 9:16 AM

            the word reformer is an actual word orthodoxer =is not thats the difference

            • rebecca August 12, 2010, 1:27 PM

              my mistake. i thought you were referring to reform jews. or was that reformers in general? lol. i’m actually reforming judaism as we speak. ; )

    • John August 11, 2010, 3:50 PM

      Mitch I agree Though it would be more accurate to say: “Sadly, because of millenia of prejudice against us, frum Jews can be some of the worst bigots out there. Its a terrible shame, not to mention a Chilul Hashem.”

    • Anonymous August 12, 2010, 10:30 PM

      Oh and that wasn’t a bigotted remark at all. We are so impressed you judge every person as an individual. You know what I dislike more then bigots mitch? Hypocrites!

  • Yosh August 11, 2010, 3:11 PM

    The worst is when this happens to gerim or children of gerim. Those stories always make me want to wilt in shame.

    • A. Nuran August 11, 2010, 3:17 PM

      Why is it worse? Because any sin affront is worse when it’s done against one of your own?

      Might want to consider that for a moment.

      • Yosh August 11, 2010, 3:53 PM

        Because you can kind of, sort of come up with an excuse for not wanting your kids to play with non-Jews, even if it is a little much at age 3. You absolutely can’t say that about gerim. Even more so, there’s a mitzvah to love gerim which is supposed to make us extra sensitive to them. When a community that’s supposed to be “frum” ignores a basic, foundational mitzvah as a result of too much stringency in other areas, it drives me nuts.

        And yes, I have considered this – you’re supposed to be most sensitive to those closest to you. You help your family first, then your community, then your whole people, then the world. This is a big fallacy of modern secular society. There are tons of folks out there who want to help the whole world and love “humanity in general,” but are jerks to the actual people they interact with.

        We’re supposed to grow one step at a time, gradually expanding our circle of positive influence.

        • A. Nuran August 11, 2010, 4:27 PM

          I’m saying something a little different. Of course we care more about our own. But we cannot base our standard of justice on racial preference. An injury against one of ours may hurt more than against a stranger. But the moment you make that your touchstone for how wrong it is you have walked straight into racism with your eyes open.

          If ethics doesn’t convince you maybe pure self interest will. You’ve condemned Jews to extinction. We cannot survive in a shrinking world if that’s the guiding legal and ethical principle. There will never be enough of us to be the screwers instead of the screwees. We’ve run out of places to run to. Our only hope is to create a world in which Toten Auslander! is unacceptable.

          • Guest August 12, 2010, 1:35 PM

            Don’t totally agree with this. A convert frequently sacrifices much, including risking resentment/estrangement from their parents, adopting an entirely new lifestyle, and drawing himself/herself close to a community that historically holds hostile attitudes towards gentiles. They may also have a harder time getting married, but are simultaneously halachically bound to no longer consider gentiles for marriage. So they occasionally face a Catch-22 if they want to continue to keep halachah.

            It’s more obnoxious and hurtful to malign such a person, if you are an orthodox Jew, who additionally has demonstrated similar values to your own.

            As hateful and obnoxious as it is to treat a random gentile this way as well, they have not demonstrated a similar degree of self sacrifice, character, or commitment to ideals consonant with Judaism.

            In theory, if you are a truly secular Jew, and don’t look positively at “Jewish values,” then you understandably wouldn’t perceive any difference between berating a convert and a random gentile. I suppose a person could be an equal opportunity offender (“I gate blacks guys, regardless of whether or not they put on tefillin”). I haven’t met a whole lot of Jews out there like that, but they probably exist.

    • too bad August 12, 2010, 2:34 AM

      Most of the blacks and hispanics convert because they want to marry a white person. What do they expect by pushing their way in when they don’t belong and they know it?

  • furrydoc August 11, 2010, 3:31 PM

    No matter how frum and insular one may wish to be, it is hard to avoid the common interactions of riding public transit, going to the supermarket, dealing with the clerks of various types at the post office or motor vehicle registry and for all but the most insular sharing classrooms, dorms and discussions at the university whose very design is to make us less insular. A growing handful of the most frum even get to share a cellblock with some of these people of color. 🙂

    We are still advised to greet all people with a pleasant face, though I suppose its Shammai origins keeps this from being a requirement.

  • Zvi Lampert August 11, 2010, 3:35 PM

    “general unspoken consensus”
    Was it real or percieved?

  • dirtyjew August 11, 2010, 3:55 PM

    Go ahead, call me a racist. I grew up as an idealist, in spite of my parents’ prejudice. It took life experience to change me to a realist.

    I started growing up in Crown Heights and my family moved when the neighborhood changed, but not before being robbed and beaten by the others. Black culture and lifestyle is devoid of anything positive. Rampant promiscuity by those who are deemed leaders, teenage mothers being the norm, 5th generation welfare babies, anti-educational attitudes, etc. And all this is tolerated by the community. When someone from within, like Bill Cosby, calls a spade a spade (pun intended), he is lambasted by the community for mouthing the truths.

    Jews know oppression and tolerate blacks as neighbors. So where ever there are Jews, blacks follow and destroy a neighborhood. After I married and moved out of my parents’ neighborhood, I noticed changes in the neighborhood when I came to visit. Whites and Jews moved out, blacks moved in. Bail bondsmen and pawn shops sprung up. A car dealer went out of business and a storage building took its place. The local supermarket installed anti-theft doors. I have never seen them in any other supermarket. Eventually, they left, too.

    While I don’t paint everyone with the same brush, I find it harder and harder to not to pre-judge people.

    • Yosh August 11, 2010, 4:04 PM

      For various reasons, a ton of frum communities are next to really ghetto neighborhoods. A lot of this is history (frum communities are often close to the center of cities) and money (frum Jews can’t afford posh neighborhoods). There are definitely lots of extremely admirable middle class black neighborhoods out there, frum Jews just don’t live next to them very often. It contributes a lot to racism in the frum world.

      • anon. August 11, 2010, 6:55 PM

        I am a new BT with Chabad and I went to CH to visit a friend about a year ago. I had never been there before. I was SHOCKED by the electricity btwn the Blacks and the Jews. We would visit someone in an all Jewish apartment building and there would be strollers in the foyer with toys and blankets, maybe even a diaper bag. Then we would visit a ‘mixed’ building and the strollers were all locked up with nothing in them. I asked my friend why and she said the Blacks would steal anything not locked down. The tension was palpable as I walked down the street. I grew up in Los Angeles, and there are PLENTY of black people around. I NEVER felt anything like I did in CH.

        Though it isnt ok to be a racist, how can one help it when all they know of a people is negative? I grew up with black friends and I watched The Cosby Show on TV. I have positive experiences with Blacks, and therefore I dont think I am racist. But if all of my encounters were with those who barely tolerated my existance, then I think I might be different.

        As for the woman who let her child play with the Black kid- I think her attitude is the best way to help bridge the racist divide.

        • Anonymous August 11, 2010, 11:57 PM

          “But if all of my encounters were with those who barely tolerated my existance, then I think I might be different. ”
          then you would know how it is to be black.

          • Michael August 12, 2010, 1:12 PM

            “then you would know how it is to be black.”

            I’m black, and this is a huge overstatement. We voted a black president into office, so I think it’s BS to walk around with this persecutory complex.

            Crown Heights is a fairly violent neighborhood, so many of the Jews there are justified in being cautious around the neighborhood blacks. Yes, many of the more right wing segments of orthodoxy find it very easy to demonize gentiles, and they need to start relating more to people as individuals, and not categories, but nobody–blacks, Jews, women, gays, etc. is really going to better the world by always playing the victim card.

    • Anonymous August 11, 2010, 9:41 PM

      “Black culture and lifestyle is devoid of anything positive.”

      You sound no different than any white supremacist, and the poster child for this article. How exactly are you so knowledgeable of black culture? Ah yes; you lived in Crown Heights, home to an oversized ghetto. Did it ever dawn on you that there are all different types of black people in this county, many of whom have nothing in common with each other? Have you ever been to the deep South, home to the majority of black people in this country? Places like Atlanta have large neighborhoods of successful and well-educated middle and upper-class blacks. You might want to consider visiting one day; you may actually learn something.

      But while we are making generalizations, If you go to places like Kiryat Joel, New Square, or any Haredi Shtetle in Israel you will discover that teenager mothering is also the norm with deadbeat dads who cannot provide and rely on the welfare system to buy their challah with food stamps. An “anti-educational” attitude is pervasive, and entire communities produce NOTHING of value for this country. And when the Reform rabbi calls a spade a spade, accusing them of raising dependent parasites, he is lambasted as an apikoras and self-hating Jew for daring to speak the truth.

      But never mind your own, projection is always more satisfying.

      • FrumGer August 12, 2010, 9:50 AM

        I posted a reply an dirty jew and i think you should read it.

        Its not black people that are the problems its the ones that buy into the rap bet lifestyle.

        I dont live in NY and have lived in the south and in the north. have met poverty stricken blacks and middle class blacks. The ones that are middle class are almost always much more well educated, and use their brain. the ones that dont sagg their pants to the floor and work at walmart.

        to your poor jewish steitles. Torah study is the most important thing a man can do. these men give up riches comfort and the feeling of pride you get from working for a living, to study Torah all day long. That is a hard life to live. that is not the same thing. they are not deadbeats waking up at 11 everyday hanging out sipping a 40. they do it in service to Hashem. and they produce a lot by fullfilling that mitzvah… dont judge what you dont know.

        • A. Nuran August 12, 2010, 10:12 AM

          And a lot of that has to do with neutering rap. Back in the earlies when it was more political and angrier rap was dangerous. Fear of a Black Planet. Freedom of Speech, Just Watch What You Say. About the time Cop Killer came out there was a sea change at the record labels as it was brought to heel and higher profits.

          • Phil August 12, 2010, 10:43 AM


            Rappers still cause damage to our impression of black people.

            When you see millions of kids idolizing characters like 50 cent, snoop dog, and the rest of the bunch of convicts, that proudly portray themsleves as “pimps” and “niggas”, what else can you expect?

            Not that I’m a rap expert, but it seems that modern rap glorifies thug life more than the older dudes like Run DMC or the Beastie Boys.

            • the other shim August 12, 2010, 11:01 AM

              It’s a big problem Phil but on the other hand there is a culture of faith and G-d among black people that is truly inspiring. According to one study 96% of blacks believe in G-d. I’d venture to say that among Jews that figure dips to like 10% and I’m including the Orthodox. Personally if they got rid of the stuff about Jesus I’d totally join a black church and sing in the choir.:)

              • FrumGer August 12, 2010, 1:52 PM

                ya like DMX who raps a prayer to G-d but then raps about raping a guys daughter in front of him for revenge a few songs back. give me a break you bleeding heart.

                Black religiosity is bull shixxx man as a former xian, i know most of them live how ever the heck they want and still say praise jerus.. its a total hypocritial culture. BET is a perfect example, they play bump and grind- gangsta thug booty music through out the week then on sunday its all church and gospel music. every rap radio station is the same way.

                • Sergeant J August 13, 2010, 1:47 AM

                  SLip in a few lines about the tax crimes, racist diatribes, covering up of sex crimes, and fraud prevalent in frum communities, and you could say the same thing.. I bet you’s call someone who did that an antisemite…

                • the other shim August 13, 2010, 9:46 AM

                  “Bleeding heart”? Well I suppose I could have been called something worse.

            • A. Nuran August 12, 2010, 6:49 PM

              You really don’t want to get into this. If we start with the stupid racist stereotypes, which you indulge in unthinkingly and constantly, you have to be willing to apply them to Jews as well. And it gets really ugly really quickly.

        • Anonymous August 12, 2010, 4:03 PM

          To put it politely, you don’t have a clue as to what you are talking about.

          If you look at the sales of of rap music you will discover that the overwhelming majority of the audience are white suburbanites.

          What does sagging a person’s pants have anything to do with their intellectual aptitude? Some black (and white) people dress that way because they are influenced by their peers no different than any other culture mores. You don’t build a hiphop empire worth billions of dollars by not using your brain.

          Working at Walmart is far more admirable than sitting on your tuchas all day mumbling and shuckling while everyone else picks up the tab. If you want to study Torah, by all means; just don’t expect anyone else to pick up the bill and pretend as if you are any less a leech than the ghetto thugs you criticize.

          But this is all beside the point. The point was that anyone can selectively analyze groups of people while ignoring the larger picture, thus satisfying their predetermined narrative.
          Viewing black people as some sort of monolith, devoid of the diversity in thought and action, stems from racism and stupidity, nothing else.

          • FrumGer August 16, 2010, 2:27 PM

            Walmart is one of the most governmentally substidized corps in the world. they have more people working for them while being on welfare then any other company, so its not much better.
            I dont sit and learn, I am not in any kollel system, I just realize that those that dont value the Torah can never understand why it is that people sit and learn. Unless you value the Torah you will think leech of course, but if you understand that it is the most important thing a jew can do then yu could understand why these men sacrifice everything.

            As to your the majority of rap sales are from white subordinates. rap sales might be because white people are the majority still in this country. black people are still well under 20 % of the population. so I would expect that. but you go to a rap concert you will see a much different crowd than you whities.

            And if you think Master p Jayz sean Combs built there “empires” on anything other than the backs of many many white and even jewish minds? your crazy.
            but that doesnt mean blacks are not just as capable of being smart of course they are.

    • Anonymous August 11, 2010, 11:54 PM

      “teenage mothers being the norm, 5th generation welfare babies, anti-educational attitudes, etc. And all this is tolerated by the community. ”

      true, black and jewish people have so much in common with each other.

      • Sergeant J August 14, 2010, 4:46 AM


    • A. Nuran August 12, 2010, 2:09 AM

      Dirty Jew, let’s hope for both our sakes we never meet.

    • FrumGer August 12, 2010, 9:39 AM

      I actiually wrote a post very similar to this a long time ago about the Rap/ BET culture and the sports culture and how it keeps the majority of black people under their own oppression with a hyper sexual (thus fatherless), most Rap uplifts/ idolizes criminality- drug dealing, robbing, general thug life stuff, (thus Jail time), they are Sports driven (thus taught how to not use your brain to succeed- taught their mind is worthless the only way to get money is to dunk a ball).

      I totally agree with you. And I love Bill Cosby. All black people should protest the BET culture and the rap culture. these things are their modern day slave masters. If they run away from these things then they have a shot at success.

      • Anonymous August 13, 2010, 2:15 AM

        so how come so many unmascline white jew boys love hiphop, speak ebonics, and want to be black? racists are so frightened to let their kids mix because black american culture is attractive an popular everywhere in the world. not many black people listen to klemzer music and dress up like fiddler on the roof.

        • FrumGer August 13, 2010, 11:06 AM

          I like hip hop.
          but i dont think that is just a jew boy problem- plenty of trailer trash white boys that live in the counrty are wiggers. The rap culture is popular because any so called bad ass subculture is popular. it used to be trying to be a “wise guy” or in the 50’s Greaser.. now they want to be a gangstas.. it has nothing to do with black people it has to do with the fact that men want to dominate and be tough. whats funny is most black people i have ever gotten in a fight with are terrible fighters and have a really low pain threshold. Most “thugs” are just scared little boys in baggy jeans. In high school, Iwas never scared of thug type folks still am not. of course I took kung fu throughout my teen years, so that helped then. either way its not that sagging you pants and wearing a du rag on your head are cool or attractive.

  • red August 11, 2010, 4:29 PM

    That is terrible but unfortunately I see it all the time.
    However, where I live the black people are racist too! My little 8 year old black neighbor across the street plays with all of the Jewish kids (we live in a very yeshivish neighborhood with a few black families). His mother told me that he comes home and says he won’t eat in their house anymore until they start keeping kosher! And he calls his mom “ima” as a joke. The best part though – we have these black kids walk up our block from the public school down the street – they are a little bit rowdy. Whenever they pass by my little neighbor runs in his house and yells “mommy the dark people are coming, I’m scared!” She tried to explain to him that they are “dark” too but he insists that dark people are mean. He also wishes me a hearty “good shabbos” whenever i walk by no matter the day of the week 🙂

    • Anonymous August 13, 2010, 2:17 AM

      that is seriously horrifying.

  • Phil August 11, 2010, 4:44 PM

    Frum Jews are weary of non Jews because we go to frum schools.

    It starts when we learn about destroying nations based on race, and smashing everyone else’s places of worship/idols.

    It then goes on to the talmud and subsequent authorities, that tend to lump MOST non Jews into being immoral jew hating murderers, which they actually were.

    When it comes to blacks, things only get worse. Aside from the fact that their forefather Ham was cursed, the young Jew sees the rampant crime and antisemitism in black neighborhoods. He or she is afraid to walk in those areas for good reason. Add leaders like sharpton and farakkan, stir and simmer on low heat.

    I live on a predominantly frum block. There is one black family a few doors down, their daughter is my daughter’s age (12-13). She would be terrible influence on Beis Rivka girls her in regards to tzniyut and morality if they befriended her, even though she seems like a nice kid.

    • Ay Oh August 11, 2010, 4:53 PM

      Did it ever occur to you that their are valuable influences in this world besides modesty? Or that being African-American doesn’t mean you are void of morals? The comments in response to this post just increase my belief that we have so much more room to grow as a people. We should all be embarrassed by the lack of humanity expressed by our fellow Jews.

      • Phil August 11, 2010, 5:09 PM

        Ay OH,

        At this point in my daughters life, my concern is to instill her with frum values. I don’t let her watch immoral TV shows or read trashy novels.

        Someone in a Beis Rivka or Beis Yaacov has nothing positive to achieve by hanging around kids that dress like mini hookers and are dating, probably s*xually active to some extent. It doesn’t matter what color they are, they from a very different culture which we want to have nothing to do with. I has less to do with being racist than with trying to protect our kids.

        • sergeant J August 11, 2010, 5:22 PM

          So then all non frum kids are off-limits?

          • Phil August 11, 2010, 5:40 PM


            It’s a tough call, really depends on the kid. I don’t think my kids have any non frum friends, as we live in a big frum community and they go to frum schools. All our relatives in that age range are religious, as well.

            I guess that’s one of the benefits of living here as opposed to an area where our kids would be forced to mingle.

            • AyOh August 11, 2010, 7:28 PM

              What about children who are from devout Catholic families? Are they teaching your children poor moral standards? What about non-Jewish relatives? It seems odd to me that if it’s about anyone non-frum (which in itself is a dangerous and scary slope) than you wouldn’t have pointed out that the family down the block is black. And does your daughter, in high school already, not have any say over who she socializes with? Or have you just taught her to stay away from those that you deem “immoral”?

              • Phil August 11, 2010, 9:34 PM

                Ay Oh,

                I would be skeptical of devout Catholic kids because their religion views us a sinners and it’s their job to convert us.

                That being said, my maid is a devout pentacostal. She’s super honest, very kind, hard working and dresses more tzniyut than many frum women I see. I think makeup is forbidden in their religion.

                Anyway, first thing I told her when we hired her was not to ever mention or discuss her religion with my kids or in my house.

                I still have some say in who my daughter hangs around with. If a “weird” schoolmate comes over, I’ll tell my daughter exactly what I think once the kid leaves. She has no interest in hanging out with the non Jews on our street, they really have nothing in common, and her friends would probably find it very strange if she did.

                The fact that that kid is black is just the way it is. Only other N.J. that age on our block is a Filipina. They usually hang around together.

                • AyOh August 12, 2010, 8:00 PM

                  So sad that skin color and religion are the only areas where people in your area can find common ground…

                  • Phil August 12, 2010, 10:10 PM


                    It’s totally normal for people to find common ground in their own culture and religion.

                    What’s so sad is that millions of Jews threw away their heritage to try to find common ground with other religions and cultures.

                    • Anonymous August 15, 2010, 7:56 PM

                      hear hear

    • anonimo August 12, 2010, 2:10 AM

      Judging by the comments of some frum posters, the idea some of these “religious” people have of morality is f*cked up beyond all recognition. I honestly think the only thing immoral that these people see in the Holocaust is who it targeted. The way some of these so-called “Torah Jews” talk of “shvartzes” and Arabs makes me think that, if their rebbe / gadol hador declared them to be Amalek, they’d be lining up to join the Einsatzgruppen and manning the gas chambers without making the mental connection to humanity’s greatest tragedy 70 years ago.

      • sergeant J August 12, 2010, 2:23 AM

        I got this impression way too much as a kid in Frum Baltimore….

      • the other shim August 12, 2010, 5:02 AM

        Oh for heaven’s sake! As I’ve already told Nuran, Call me when the Jews have executed their first pogrom. I won’t be holding my breath.

        • Anonymous August 12, 2010, 8:41 AM

          Yes, this!

        • A. Nuran August 12, 2010, 6:50 PM

          It’s already happened.

          • Anonymous August 13, 2010, 2:22 AM

            in israel haredim riot, throw stones, break windows. the lunatics in settlements beat people up and trash mosques. it is only a matter of time before they kill somebody. would you like to wait until somebody is dead before you admit the problem??

            • the other shim August 13, 2010, 1:13 PM

              A load of crap. Like I said when Jews as a whole band together to create a mass pogrom of Arabs or blacks or what have you, you don’t have a point. A few isolated incidents is not an indicator of a crisis. Not every Jew is a potential Boruch Goldstein, who was mentally ill by the way.

              Considering what has been done to us over the ages and now I think as a people we’re doing pretty damn good. A few crazies is a few crazies and nothing more.

              I think violence is a MUCH bigger problem in the Muslim world where it is taught as DOGMA. If there is to be real peace, the Muslims have to stop looking at us Jews as subhuman. It’s possible. Christians used to kill Jews left and right and Jews used to flee to Muslim nations. I’ve read enough asktheimam.com to get a good idea of how much they hate us. To them we are prophet killers who are forever rejected by G-d. They also deny that Jews ever lived in Israel and that King David and King Solomon were fictional!

              Then again there is an important site called tellthechildrenthetruth.com which assured me that this hatred is NOT part of Islam but was imported there by the Nazis. But don’t take my word for it. It is a site that must be seen written by a very brave Muslim man, Shaykh Prof. Abdul Hadi Palazzi Head Imam of Italy. People like him give me hope that change is possible.

              Another enlightening site is arabsforisrael.com which is basically Arabs from lands such as Iran (that’s right Mahla, I had to say Iran) secretly posting their support of our nation. Moderated by Wafa Sultan, a great heroine and brave woman.

              Dear Mahla, what is your opinion on all this?

              • Sergeant J August 13, 2010, 1:33 PM

                Arabs from Iran? There are not a whole lot of Arabs in Iran… Mahla is not Arab, either… Arabic is not even a main language there…

                • Mahla August 13, 2010, 2:01 PM

                  Yeah, Iranians speak Farsi.

                  • Sergeant J August 13, 2010, 2:23 PM

                    ???? ??? ???

                  • the other shim August 13, 2010, 2:31 PM

                    Ok, Persian I’m sorry. I’ve noticed that Persians tend to get insulted if they are called Arab. Why? I’ve been mistaken for Arab and it didn’t bother me.

                    My son’s dermatologist is from Iran and he was totally pissed at me for getting Persian and Arab confused. Oops. I’m from Michigan where it seems that there are more Persians than Arabs not that I’ve done an actual study or anything.

                    • Sergeant J August 13, 2010, 2:34 PM

                      There are centuries of animosity between Persians and Arabs.

                    • Sergeant J August 13, 2010, 2:39 PM

                      It’s worse than having someone who knows you are Jewish ask you (for the thousandth time) “so, Jesus, he’s a prophet to you guys, right?”

                    • Phil August 13, 2010, 2:41 PM


                      There are centuries of animosity between everyone and Arabs.

              • Mahla August 13, 2010, 2:00 PM

                Well, Iranians definitely aren’t Arabs, and in fact most of the Arab countries are enormously hostile to Iran. If Iran were to get a nuke and use it to posture against another nation, I think it just as likely they would be posturing against Saudi Arabia as against Israel.

                There is even an Arab saying that God put three pests on this Earth to torment them: fleas, the Jews and the Persians. :^(

                That said, there are moderate Arab Muslims, moderate Sunni Muslims, moderate Shia Muslims … however, none of them are as well-funded as the Salafists, who are Sunni and backed by Saudi petrodollars. :^(

                • Phil August 13, 2010, 2:15 PM


                  Arabs are ernormously hostile to everyone, even each other. It’s Yishmael’s legacy, as prophesized to Hagar by the Angel while she was pregnant with him.

                  Though Iranian politician seem pretty hostile to Israel, Iran has the middle east’s largest Jewish population outside of Israel, and also has more Jews than any other muslim ruled country. They retain the right to do business, learn Torah and have synagogues.

                  Can’t say the same for Jordan, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia or Egypt, the so called “moderate” arab lands.

                  Jews in most arab lands that numbered in the millions before 1948 were all driven out one way or another (usually robbery and/or murder).

                  • the other shim August 13, 2010, 2:46 PM

                    I didn’t know Jews were so free in Iran until I saw my son’s aforementioned dermatologist. He shook our hands and greeted us with a Salaam Aleikum. I assumed that Jews were in deep sh*t over there because of Ahmedenijad saying the Holocaust was fake and Israel should be wiped out with a nuke. He enlightened me. He also loved my younger son’s bukharan kippa and knew what it was.

                    By the way the Saudis hate Iran so much they’re actually collaborating with the devil (Israel) and letting them use their airspace to attack Iran. I will include a link to the article in the next post so this one goes up right away.

                    • the other shim August 13, 2010, 2:54 PM
                    • Mahla August 13, 2010, 3:02 PM

                      Yes, the GCC countries hate Iran. Jews are certainly free to worship and learn Torah in Iran. They are a protected group, considered ‘People of the Book’ as are Christians. A Muslim man is free to marry a Jewish woman (but not vice versa) …. Christians and Jews are allowed to have wine, for religious and celebratory purposes, although it is illegal for Muslims to have it.

                      Now, the Christians are seen with eyes a bit more jaded than the Jews, because Christianity is at heart an evangelical faith and it is illegal (in fact, it is a capital crime) to convert from Islam to another faith. There is always a bit of fear that a Christian who’s hanging around your sister is trying to convert her or something like that, which would be a legal disaster for all involved. Not so with Jews.

                      There is lots of confusion in the U.S. or indeed in the West about Iran. Americans especially tend to think Iranians are Arabs, Iranians speak Arabic, that Iranian women can’t vote or drive, that Judaism and Christianity must surely be outlawed in Iran, et cetera.

                      My older sister is a PhD candidate in mathematics at the University of Tehran. Some people have expressed shock to me she is even “allowed” to go to school.

                      It is sadly ironic that even after 9/11 if you were to ask many Americans “who’s got the stricter religious regime going, Saudi Arabia or Iran?” many people would mindlessly say “Oh surely Iran does, Saudi Arabia’s our friend and ally.” Or if you were to ask “Into which country is it literally illegal to bring so much as a tiny Star of David?” many people would say “Surely Iran!”

                      This is not the case. :^(

                    • Sergeant J August 13, 2010, 3:13 PM

                      Far better to be a Jew than a reporter in the line to enter Iran…

                    • the other shim August 13, 2010, 3:38 PM

                      To Mahla

                      For some reason I can’t directly comment on your post below so I’m commenting here. I must tell you your perspective is refreshing and needed and I love reading your posts.

                      Thanks for all that info on Iran vs. Saudi Arabia. Fascinating. Anyway, I don’t know why Saudi Arabia is considered an ally anyway when most of the 9/11 hijackers were from there.

  • troll August 11, 2010, 5:07 PM

    racist? never!! I love n1ggers I own a few

    • Anonymous August 11, 2010, 8:45 PM

      Ooh, aren’t you clever. Try using a joke that hasn’t been passed around Yeshivas everywhere…weirdo. Yet more proof that not only are frummies racist, they’re unoriginal lame Henny Youngman wanna-be’s

    • A. Nuran August 11, 2010, 9:20 PM

      Obvious Troll is Obvious.
      One also wonders if Obvious Troll kisses his mother with that mouth.

      • Anonymous August 11, 2010, 11:02 PM

        Nuran, f off dude. You’re in the same category as the racist sh!thead that you’re replying to. Except he’s just a 15 year old moron who will probably grow up whereas you’re an increasingly bitter middle aged loser trolling frum sites.

  • Heshy Fried August 11, 2010, 5:52 PM

    Of course one of the responses to this could be: Do you send your kids to yeshiva? Well that’s pretty darned prejudice aint it?

    • AyOh August 11, 2010, 7:30 PM

      Oh Hesh,

      That’s not the case at all. You can easily choose a private education for your children and still expose them to society. It’s the parents that are attempting to shelter their children in the Jewish (or otherwise) ghettos that are doing the kids and the community a disservice.

  • Meshuga Parent August 11, 2010, 6:17 PM

    All interesting comments.

    One thing to point out about the influence issue.
    I was referring to two kids who are less than 2 years old. That could hardly be considered an interaction that could result in any sort of influence.

    • AyOh August 11, 2010, 7:37 PM

      Btw, awesome blog. More parents should have your perspective. If they did, we’d all live in a better place.

  • Tali August 11, 2010, 6:44 PM

    Meh. You all need to leave NY.
    My son is at cheder with lots of kids, some from frum ashkenaz families, some from sphardi, some yeminites (don’t call them sphardi EVER!) we have a few Ethiopian families and a few asian kids from one of the parents converting.
    The Jewish area and population is only 100 000 and the city where I am is Australias largest so we are surrounded by different ethnicities and cultures all the time. I think I can quite proudly say every kid I know is colour blind and besides for my Russian Immigrant family most of the adults are too.
    One shabbas lunch we were eating by a chabad rabbi and a drunk russian stumbled in (as they are want to do at this particular rabbis house) and started going on about the ‘schvatzer’ Obama. He was quietly taken aside and told in on uncertain terms that that kind of language and behaviour was not acceptable.
    I think most people have an issues speaking up to racism when we see or hear but we must. Don’t just laugh it off.

    • Anonymous August 12, 2010, 12:02 AM

      what about indigenous australians??

      • Tali August 12, 2010, 2:43 AM

        What about them?!!
        My sons class has been on several cultural day excursions to an aboriginal learning centre where the elders of what is left of this areas indigenous Australians explained their culture and traditions. The children integrated this into their mainstream learning. When you learn about the holocaust here you also learn that it was a group of Aboriginal elders who marched on Parliament house to demand the government of the time do something about the plight of European Jews.
        The Shalom institute is something many of my friends have been involved in over time and they collaborate with Aboriginal artists to sell Aboriginal works to fund scholarships for aboriginal medical students.
        One of my dearest friends and a well known and loved Rebbitizin here is about to up and move to the Northen Territory for 3 years so that she can offer her services as a midwife to the traditional communities there and learn about their birthing practices too.
        Ours is not a perfect community by any means but we are not (with the exception of one or two individuals) racist.

        • the other shim August 12, 2010, 11:06 AM

          Very interesting. I had no idea the Aboriginals/Maori tried to help out the Jews during the Holocaust. I have a Maori CD called Oceania and it’s really lovely. Not being anywhere near Australia however, I have never met a Maori.

  • boruch August 11, 2010, 7:11 PM

    This is the reason why I will not go back into the Yeshiva system. It was a good experience and all, but the racism displayed by the students and by the rebbeim was appalling. There was some kid who hung a confederate flag in my room, I asked him to take it down he said no. I argued with another student about slavery he said he agrees on it because the Torah says thats what is supposed to happen. Every morning all I ever heard waking up was shfartsa or Nigger and how bad and dirty black people are. After going to public school with a lot of black people, and befriending a lot this display of racism really pissed me off. My brother was in the chareidi world and yeshiva world for 9 years he told me after he left that world he stopped being racist. People also used to make fun of me for defending black people and non Jewish people. I love my Jewish brethren and all but I will fight this bigotry until I die. Some yeshivas you actually feel like your at a kkk meeting, and they wonder why people go off the derech or don’t feel their Judaism to be spiritual. I still keep to a lot of aspects of the religion but I will tell you this was a major factor that really turned me away.

    • A. Nuran August 11, 2010, 9:27 PM

      Call a Black woman “Shvartza kurva” and everyone laughs. I’ve been there and had to just walk out because I was a guest in the racist corksoaker’s house.

      Call his mother “Jew c**t” and it’s different.

      How about something really offensive…

      “That which is hateful to you do not do to another. All the rest is commentary.”

      • Phil August 11, 2010, 9:38 PM


        They do it to themselves to. I think “ho” is the ebonic term for woman. Ever hear a black due say “Don’t you be callin my b*tch a ho”?

        • Julie August 11, 2010, 9:53 PM

          Phil, you should petition the KKK to start a chapter for Jews.

          • Phil August 12, 2010, 8:38 AM


            I already did. It’s called the JJJ.

            • Sergeant J August 12, 2010, 12:23 PM

              I thought it was the westboro Chabad house, Canadian chapter. ….

              • Phil August 12, 2010, 12:38 PM

                Sarge, you’re confusing it with the CCC.

    • Guest August 12, 2010, 1:51 PM

      What yeshivah did you go to–or could you at least provide me with the city? I’m trying to get a sense of how universal this phenomenon is.

  • Guest August 11, 2010, 7:27 PM

    Just to add to the mix: My went is pregnant and has been looking for a ob/gyn.She found one that accepts our ins. and went for her first appt.It turns out she was black.Is my wife a racist for feeling uncomfortable having her as a doctor?In the past she had always had non jewish doctors but she just did not feel comfortable with the new one.

    • sergeant J August 12, 2010, 1:46 AM

      Yup. If that’s the main reason she is uncomfortable, she’s a racist.

  • Benjy August 11, 2010, 9:43 PM

    I agree wholeheartedly. The prevalent racism in the Jewish community is sickening, disheartening, and a complete chillul hashem. I see it all the time in yeshivos, and I don’t understand where it comes from or why it’s so accepted.

    • tesyaa August 11, 2010, 11:13 PM

      I see it all the time in yeshivos, and I don’t understand where it comes from or why it’s so accepted.

      Like smoking but worse.

  • Boruch August 12, 2010, 1:10 AM

    This is also the reason why when I have kids I’m probably not going to send them to Yeshiva because the racist attitude is a product of the yeshiva environment.

    • anon August 12, 2010, 5:07 AM

      lets make a new yeshivah where we can insure theres none of this … and we welcome ur kids… the Torah is a path of peace and many people are still living this… We just need to search harder in our confused generation , … the kkk meeting got broken up by Hashem himself, these negative places wont last… only the good lives on and u and all our kids will be there together

    • realist August 12, 2010, 9:58 PM

      It doesn’t matter. The way so many blacks act, one will “learn” it interacting with them. If I had money for every time they kicked me on the subway and bus, I’d be rich. I’ve even had some try to run me over on the sidewalk. Yes, they drove up the sidewalk to try to kill whitey. They HATE us. A smart person will stay away.

  • Realistic girl August 12, 2010, 2:28 AM

    You know what? They are racist against us! Plus, they are always playing the race card. Blacks will kick you and shove you in a crowd because they know you don’t know which one did it and then if you say anything THEY all gang up on you. I was on the bus and this girl started calling me cracker and redneck and all sorts of derogative mess. She smacked me in the face. She tried to grab my cell phone out of my hand.

    When they stop being racist, then they can expect us to be but, I will teach any kids I ever have how to survive in this world and part of that is making sure they know better than to fall for that race card crap that blacks use to tug at white people’s hearts whenever they want something. They are so f*ckin manipulative. You all want to fall for their trap, go ahead. I protect myself.

    • Sergeant J August 13, 2010, 1:53 AM

      Change “black” with “Jew”, and “race card” with “holocaust card”, and you could send both versions to any racist website, to much applause…

      • Anonymous August 13, 2010, 7:02 AM

        change “Change “black” with “Jew”, and “race card”with “holocaust card”, ” to I am
        and “and you could send both versions to any racist website, to much applause…” to a complete moron, and you can get your new tagline

        • Sergeant J August 13, 2010, 7:07 AM

          Change your entire post to “I have no real answer for this, so instead of shutting up, I will just troll and use a childish insult”, and.. Oh wait, that IS what you said…

  • the other shim August 12, 2010, 5:14 AM

    And now for my take on this: I’m sure the frummers were staring at the lady who let her kid play with “one of them”. My husband’s family is very black hat and very racist. I wanted to die when I took my sister in law who has Down’s to the park and she said she didn’t want to play because there were black people and she was scared. They heard her and I made her apologize. Two of my brothers in law (I have quite a few) outrightly call themselves racist and are proud of it.

    I wouldn’t hesitate to let my kids play with anyone, whatever color they are.

    That said I must add that a LOT of blacks hate the Jews. In Detroit you feel the racial tension in the air. I used to clean houses in Detroit and I got the same looks the lady in the story got from blacks who thought I was invading their neighborhood. As I mentioned before there were black thugs who randomly attacked Jews simply because they were Jews. A cousin of mine had a gun pointed to his head. Then again I’d feel safer in downtown Detroit than in Dearborn! Dearborn is basically a Hezbollah stronghold.

    Whatever, racism is bad unjustifiable and f*cking stupid. It doesn’t matter who’s doing the hating.

    • Guest August 12, 2010, 1:03 PM

      I’m glad you’re able to maintain your perspective on this. Many people kind of fall into the trap of either whitewashing legitimate moral failings that exist in distinct communities of people (African American culture, especially in the inner city, is rife with very common social problems, and antisemitism is prevalent amongst many American blacks). On the other hand, you can become like Phil, and basically relegate all of these people to subhuman status, and stop relating to people as individuals, or stop believing in the potential for every person to be good.

      At the very least, A. nuran’s quote from Hillel, should be drummed mercilessly into our children’s minds: “That which is hateful to you do not do to another. All the rest is commentary.”

  • Phil August 12, 2010, 1:12 PM


    When did I ever say that all blacks are subhuman? If I’m more afraid to go for an evening walk through “da hood” than walking in the forrest or jungle, that doesn’t make the colored residents animals.

    It simply means that there are substantial numbers of citizens in those areas that are prone to violence and crime, and I’d seriously be risking my health going there. An no, it doesn’t mean they are all like that, even 10 or 20% is bad enough, though I imagine the numbers are higher.

    • Guest August 12, 2010, 1:21 PM

      “When did I ever say that all blacks are subhuman?”

      Oh, sorry, correction: your the guy that likes telling Nigger jokes. My bad.

      • Phil August 12, 2010, 1:28 PM


        Anyone that tells jokes about blonds or old people is just as bad, as they are discriminating against them because of the color of their hair or because of their age.

        In fact, anyone that tells jokes about any particular group of people should fall into the same category following your stupid reasoning.

        • Guest August 13, 2010, 4:12 PM

          Pursuant to my point above, I’ve been scouring the Rebbe’s sichos for some nigger jokes, but I haven’t been able to find any. I figure you’d be able to point me in the right direction.

          Or maybe he would utterly be disgusted with you, because there is no Torah basis for such behavior. Yeah, that’s more like it.

          • Phil August 13, 2010, 5:29 PM

            What a ridiculous comment. The Rebbe wasn’t a joking type of person, especialy not when he was sayinga sicha. I don’t think you’d find rebbeim making any blond or old people jokes either.

    • Dave August 12, 2010, 1:59 PM

      If a government official were to target Orthodox charities for forensic audits based on the actions by Spinke and in Deal, would that be ant-semitism?

      If someone didn’t want to do business with Orthodox Jews because of the risk of “shtick” would that be anti-semitism?

      • Phil August 12, 2010, 3:06 PM


        Unfortunately, frum Jews are notorious for tax evasion (which is actually assur), so they would make great targets for a tax audit. Of course, any non Jew that does anything to a Jew is automatically labelled an antisemites, from taxman to traffic cop. That’s just the way things are.

        As for doing business with frum Jews, I am lucky not to have to deal with them since years. When I had to, they they were the worst customers and cheapest bosses I’ve ever seen. Sad but true.

  • Guest August 12, 2010, 2:03 PM

    “In fact, anyone that tells jokes about any particular group of people should fall into the same category following your stupid reasoning.”

    It’s only stupid thinking, of course, until gentiles start telling such jokes about Jews, with the intention of mocking them. THEN it’s a bad thing.

    You’ve moderated somewhat over time, but you’re still a douchebag.

    • Phil August 12, 2010, 2:56 PM


      I’m insulted, what makes you say that I’m moderated?

      I have no problem with anyone making fun of Jews, I do so myself and so does Hesh. If you open you’re eyes a bit, you’ll notice that your on a blog that pokes fun at every type and denomination of Jew on a daily basis.

      I suggest you and people that have your mind set lighten up a bit. If people learned how to laugh instead or whine, and all racism was about was poking fun at each other, we’d live in a much better world.

      • Boruch August 12, 2010, 3:50 PM

        The yeshiva I went to no longer exists, but I guess it really depends on what Yeshiva you go to. It’s definitely fervent in the Yeshivish world. in the modern orthodox world I don’t think it’s such a big problem.

  • Rob August 12, 2010, 3:59 PM

    I’ve seen the same reaction from charedim when a charedi mom lets her kid play with a kid wearing a kippa sruga.

    • Anonymous August 12, 2010, 6:02 PM

      Why I live on the west coast.
      Come visit us. Berkeley Chabad, where frum and non-frum of all different places just get along. Sent my daughter to Camp Gan Izzy. What a rainbow of faces! You have to just try to get along.

      • Anonymous August 12, 2010, 7:35 PM

        a few questions:
        Was it a double rainbow?
        did it go all the way?
        and of course: what does it mean

    • FrumGer August 13, 2010, 12:08 AM

      bologna, you’d shit right if you ate right too

  • realist August 12, 2010, 10:02 PM

    They hate us, so why should we be nice to them? I’ve been kicked and hit by too many of them.

    • Sergeant J August 12, 2010, 10:09 PM

      Perpetuate the spiral of hate.. as the situation in Israel shows, it’s so workable if you just hate up and back for eternity…

      • Phil August 12, 2010, 10:13 PM


        Your about halfway there. If Israelis as a whole hated the arabs as much as they hate us, we woudn’t have a problem, we would have slaughtered them a long time ago.

        • Sergeant J August 13, 2010, 1:50 AM

          And if the world turned a blind eye to the plight of Israel, and just sold the Arabs what they could afford in weapons tech, there would be a smoking radioactive hole where Jerusalem is now, while the Imams declare a new “third holiest city”. Genocide is a moronic answer to the problems in Israel, and there are a BILLION plus Muslims..

          • Phil August 13, 2010, 10:11 AM


            I didn’t say genocide was the answer, I just said it would be what Israel would do if they hated them as much as they hate us. Your reply only proved my point. And yes, if there were no arabs in the middle east, the situation in Israel yould be very different, probably a lot more peaceful.

            BTW, the Torah commanded us to perform genocide when we originally conquered the land in the times of Yehoshua. The 7 nations were given 3 choices:

            1) Leave.
            2) Accept noachide law and become our slaves.
            3) Die.

            The Girgashi chose option #1 and ran away to Africa.
            The Gibeonites used a ruse and ended up with option #2.
            The other were all slaughtered, men, women and children included.

            And as racist as this may sound, the majority of these races were black, 4 of them were direct descendants of Ham. The Jews were so effective with their genocide, that you don’t see many black nations native to that region middle East.

            So if you call yourself a Jew and believe in the Torah, you have to believe that genocide was not only an option under certain circumstances, but an actual mitvah (milchemet mitzvah).

            • Sergeant J August 13, 2010, 12:28 PM

              Funny, I don’t recall the age of Prophecy restarting.. If it was time for us to commit genocide, G-d would be talking to us, directly. Until then, how ’bout leaving it off the table, mmkay?

              • Phil August 13, 2010, 12:36 PM


                Again, I’m not advocating it, I’m just stating fact. When Mashiach comes, the mitzvah of annihilating Amalek will be in effect again, maybe you and I will be on the same death squad, heck I’ll even sponsor the beer.

                Until then, we’ll be stuck with impotent politicians constantly trying to appease those that want us all dead.

            • the other shim August 13, 2010, 12:54 PM

              For option #2 the other nations did NOT become our slaves they were second class citizens but definitely not slaves. According to Rav Kook these war tactics were a temporary defense mechanism to protect the young nation of Israel. Since the other nations were used mass murder as a tactic, Bnei Israel had to as well as a form of self defense. Not that it sits easy with me, but I can understand it better.

            • Puzzled August 15, 2010, 11:07 PM

              Thanks for the reminder. I’ve been having trouble lately remembering what I found so offensive about OJ.

        • Anonymous August 13, 2010, 2:51 AM

          you’re not israeli.

  • Anonymous August 15, 2010, 11:40 PM

    great thread, reminds me why i hate my own race more than other. judaism is bullsh*t and my kids will never be jewish.

    • the other shim August 16, 2010, 12:19 AM

      You could always join the ISM with Adam Shapiro and Hedy Epstein. You’ll fit right in.

      • Anonymous August 16, 2010, 1:37 AM

        you could always join the human race, but you’d never pass.

    • Mahla August 16, 2010, 10:31 PM

      Anonymous, it’s sad that you feel that way! That in itself is a racist statement! Do you really think that Judaism in all its forms is synonymous with racism?! There are racist elements in ALL societies; to say you can’t raise your kids to be Jews AND to be tolerant is just plain crazy!

  • choosen one August 16, 2010, 11:13 PM

    to say you can’t raise your kids to be what kind of Jews
    they are several types AND to be tolerant, i am tolerant with my dog but is not my equal

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