Dogs: I cannot tell you why frummies are really afraid of dogs, but they are. If you want true protection against little frummy kids, just get a dog. I have seen them run across the street to avoid a dog, it’s the way of the frummies. In fact, just this past weekend I was sitting at a shabbos meal with two yeshiva guys from Far Rockaway that have dogs. I immediately asked if their parents were baalei teshuva – “How did you know?” they wondered as I said, of course they are.
The word sex: Frummies can’t say the word sex, in fact they have about ten other words to avoid using the word. Instead of sexual relations, they just say relations. Lucky for them most yeshiva guys don’t go into PR – or else they would have a problem. Sometimes they say bia, other times they say “knew” or “lived with.” I guess one night stands are considered living with by some standards. I always considered living with as in moving in – but the frummies had something else in mind.
College: Frummies will do anything to get out of college. They will go the BTL (bachelors of talmudic law) or they will get a scam degree from Charter Oaks. The girls will get these medical billing certificates, or if they are desperate they will figure out how to get an associates with AP bais yaakov credits, but to many frummies, college is the downfall.
Working on the books: I myself didn’t really work on the books until college. It was definitely one of my fears as well. But most frummies I know will skip out on a job if they take out taxes, even my father groans when I say my job is not a cash job.
Yeshiva University: I always found it interesting that it was better to go to a regular secular college than YU and I didn’t find out until later in life why. You see YU makes it seem like the right way, but really it isn’t, with secular college you won’t get fooled that modern orthodoxy is kosher.
Off the derech: I love hearing frummies talk about people they know whose kids are off the derech. It’s always a bunch of sighs and then debating how they can convince to come back. Or they talk about how they are confident that they will come back soon. My friend works for a big brother program that mentors kids and one of the parents fired him because the kid asked how his big brother could be frum if he didn’t dress chassidish. The parent didn’t want the kid going of the derech. I have heard of parents fearing the worst when their kid starts saying things like Israel instead of Eretz Yisroel.
Mingling: I remember when girls and guys yeshivas would send out spies on Saturday night to avenue J to see if kids were talking to the opposite sex. I remember girls running away in Woodbourne when they saw people they know coming up the walk. It was a huge sin to get caught talking to the opposite sex. Now I wonder how some of these kids who were trained to be afraid of the opposite sex negotiate the shidduch scene.
Being seen on a date: Most girls hate to be seen on a date. I have no idea why but in the frummy world this is so. They will have you drag them somewhere strange in order not to be seen.
{ 115 comments… read them below or add one }
Frummies are, likewise, terrified of kittens. They were crossing to the other side of the street to avoid one.
I’m a yeshiva guy in probably the biggest yeshiva in the world, and tried bringing a kitten into my dira – the guys freaked! It was hysterical!
You know how hard it is to get cat hairs off black clothes? I could imagine cats in a Bet Midrash sitting on your Gmara while you’re learning.
Why is there a cat in BM and why would it sit on your Gemara?
Because they are adorable (and relaxing) and because that’s what cats do — sit where you most need them not to be sitting.
You forgot: “Aliya”
In Israel, other key freak concepts are: Army service, Sherut Leumi, and any Hashgacha from the Rabbanut.
Making ‘Aliya or saying the word ‘Aliya?
From my experience, they often have kids that “moved to Eretz Yisrael” but they don’t call it ‘Aliya.
College is all right for girls as long as they don’t have to go. The newest thing is Mercy College (funny, it sounds so goyishe, but you don’t have to step foot on campus). One year of seminary, some CLEP credits, some online courses, and no joke, you get a BA 2 years after graduating Bais Yaakov. Then even if you haven’t learned anything, you can apply and be accepted into a master’s program in education or therapy. Similarly, Excelsior College.
man its disgusting how smart and efficient these frummies are. gosh, i simply cant stand the fact that they manage to cut their college time in half and still get paid the same as me when all is said and done. those frummies are so weird!
Yeah, they are weird! Imagine wanting to receive a higher education!
dont they?
A piece of paper from an online diploma mill and a higher education are not the same things. If you knew as much coming out as you did going in, your degree is completely meaningless.
I’d be more impressed if they got their degree from a state school that had actual standards. (If you are willing to work your tuchus of and take 15 credits in summer session, plus pass CLEP exams, this could also take two years, but then you gt to skip to the juicy parts of the degree!)
very true. hey, heshy when are you going to host the haveil havalim blog carnival again?
when I don’t work full time
fair enough. I submitted one of my articles ( actually 2) to this coming weeks carnival , thing is the person reviewing them and reposting posts isn’t the person I’d find amusing or interesting. But either way gimme a shout when you get fired. Lol.
It seems like there are frummies who get a university education, but hardly any of them “go to college”.
Part of “going to college” is the experience of getting to know people of different backgrounds. If you grow up in the insular Charedi community and then either take online classes or go to a college that’s mostly of your demographic (Touro, etc.) are you really preparing yourself for the real world?
Well, I suppose if you’re planning to stay within your insular community, then this path would prepare you for the real world you plan to live in… Right?
“Part of “going to college” is the experience of getting to know people of different backgrounds. ”
thats your definition. i would say the only reason to go to college is to make more money. thats why they go, they couldnt care less about getting to know other people and i cant help but respect an attitude where results is the only thing that matters.
ok ow u got me all fired up. U see, the fact that u even have that question as to what the definition of college is is problematic. You see, everyone needs to become integrated with society, have political and social debates and make close friends from diverse backgrounds. It all serves to create a well rounded individual. Take a look around, you see many people making millions who never went to college. I can spot them from a mile away! Many are closed minded, crass, and overall not liberal in the way they think. When i say liberal I refer to people who can think for themselves. Geez.
“You see, everyone needs to become integrated with society, have political and social debates and make close friends from diverse backgrounds.”
where do you come up with this stuff?
you must have political and social debates? its a must? if you dont then your somehow not a well rounded individual? huh?!! really?!
you realize how ridiculous you sound?
“overall not liberal in the way they think.”
so let me get this straight, if one is not liberal then he is closed minded and crass? wow, am i talking to a teenager?
i give up i dont even know where to start from, your just sad and are just repeating the same regurgitated garbage. think for yourself! stop talking! start thinking.
Nice rant buddy. I’m not saying these are the musts that create a well rounded individual. I’m saying these are things which can create a well rounded individual, and I personally find that people who have a well rounded education are somehow more polished. Unless of course they’re from Jersey in which case there simply no hope.
As far as the liberal thinking, I don’t mean liberal vs. conservative. Perhaps liberal wasn’t the right word to use. I meant someone who can think for himself. As opposed to someone who thinks the way he was taught. You see those people are more prone to being closed minded. No matter how open minded they feel they may be, being brought up in one particular school of thought creates a feeling of always thinking the other person is wrong. Many of my friennds who try to convince me to go “back on the path” are truly convinced that path is where I must be. They don’t stop to consider maybe the beliefs they have are wrong.
The more exposed one is to other cultures and people, the more diveres one’s social circle and educational background is, the more likely he or she will find themselves able to relate to the world at large. They may even feel part of the world at large, and can retain whatever religious beliefs they have, atop the well rounded individual underneath.
you seem convinced that being able to relate to everyone’s culture and background is the ultimate goal for a person. why cant people remain in their own sheltered community and just live life? will he become a bloodsucking parasite that destroys the world with his closemindedness? if hes happy then what does he need to go out looking for in the world? people can be productive and educated without becoming friends with those that differ in culture. the real question is why does it seem so hard to understand this opinion? it seems simple enough. it doesnt mean u have to agree with it, but dont get fired up about it. its a sign of not being able to tolerate other’s cultures, which is much more important than relating to them!
I find it entertaining to listen to a bunch of New Yorkers talking about exposing oneself to other cultures and people by going to college. Granted, that MAY be an improvement on what YOU are comparing it to, but there are a few people in this country who consider a college, particularly a northeastern one, a rather limited milieu. A count of those people might be informative.
I am a “frummy” and would hate being caught out on a date for the simple reason that the guy’s I am set up with are usually visually nebachy. Not blaming them, but they are rarely in shape (usually v over weight or super duper manorexic skinny), always have glasses w shtaddy rectangle frames (that’s ok but they never clean them so theyre covered in dandruff and eyelashes – ew), and are generally not cute. So, when I’m by the hotel lounge and I see a girl I know from school or a family friend, I get super embarassed bc they might think I like such a nebachy guy! But really its not my fault, its who the shadchan thought would be for me.
Sometimes the guys are nice but just in relation to what you posted, that explains the “embarassed to be seen on a date point”. It’s like being watched during a private moment.
*blush*
Maybe it’s time to stop using a shadchan and do some work yourself…
Oy! You get set up with real catches, huh? Don’t know how you stand it but if a dandruff-covered out of shape nerd showed up at my doorstep time after time, I’d be looking for a new shadchan or developing an emergency rescue plan or both.
When your date dates who have dandruff get up to use the bathroom, you should slip a small bottle of selson blue in their coat. Of course this only works in colder months.
I’ve tried several shadchanim… like probably close to 20 over the years, websites, friends etc. It’s ok. I know Hashem has a plan for me
“If you want true protection against little frummy kids, just get a dog. I have seen them run across the street to avoid a dog, it’s the way of the frummies.”
On the MONEY, Hesh. But if you live in the same neighborhood as frummies, they and their kids will eventually get used to your dog and possibly even like your pet!
And I’ve had their kids throw rocks at my very sweet and loving dog while the parents looked on and did nothing. It took a great deal of self control to not hospitalize someone for that.
Should’ve taken pictures and posted online.
Also, once you have evidence, can tell parents that if it happens again, you’re calling police and reporting animal abuse.
yes yes moshe your a genius. then we could get those silly frummy kids in jail for throwing rocks at dogs.
the problem with these kids is that they dont respect animals. wheres the kavod habriot for mans best friend?!!
i think what all yeshivas should have is a puppy. then the world will be such a warmer and safer place.
If you’d actually read what I said, I said to threaten the parents. And it’s not that the kids don’t respect animals, they don’t respect anyone other than their clique.
One of the weirdest things I’ve encountered is the frummy disdain for kindness to animals. Bring up treating animals well, loving your pets or supporting better conditions for farm animals. You’ll be treated to barely coherent, hell, barely prehensile diatribes about P.E.T.A. and anti-Semitism. I think the only reason these clods don’t actually tear chunks off of cows while they’re still alive is the strict requirements for kosher slaughter and the Noachide laws.
and the parents would probably ignore you as some nut case which is willing to shell out thousands for the upkeep of his dog but probably begrudges paying his synagogue membership fee.
you know, according to some opinions it is prohibited to raise a dog unless your raising it for the purpose of protection?
Then the next time it happens “the parents” can watch me use non-deadly force to effect a citizen’s arrest on their precious crotch-fruit for the serious felony of aggravated assault with a deadly weapon with double helpings for them if they lift a finger to stop.
As for “some opinions” I really couldn’t care less. The fact is they indoctrinating the next generation of superstitious peasants in cruelty towards animals, unprovoked murderous assaults and destruction of others’ property pretty. If their Masters’ superstitions don’t slap this kind of evil down hard, then the Great Ones from Boro Park all the way back to Hillel can suck the Big Pink Kosher Knockwurst. They could learn morals from things with too many legs that live at the bottom of ponds.
“pretty” should have real “That pretty much says it all.”
Actually, it’s the opposite. You are not allowed to raise a dog for the purposes of protection. You can have a pet, but guard dogs are discouraged because a Jew is not supposed to have anything that would be an obstacle to someone coming to the door for tzedaka.
Now that I carry a phone with a camera that’s exactly what I’d do.
Frummies tried to poison a dog my brother wound up adopting. During the dating parsha of my life, I noticed that most FFB’s were terrified of a puppy I had at the time. My husband came to the house at our first meeting and befriended the dog. We are both FFB’s. Only a handful of people in my shul have dogs. Although, dogs come in handy now when shilichim come to the door at inopportune times. The envelope is dropped and they leave.
hey heshy, when are you coming back to the east coast?
Well isn’t it obvious why frummies hate dogs? BECAUSE HITLER LOVED THEM! In Nazi Germany, it was considered a crime to be cruel to an animal. All the bigwigs–Goering, Hess, Himmler, Goebbels, et al–were huge supporters of animal rights, and many of them were vegetarians. There were even laws governing shoeing a horse (in the least painful manner possible). And this is why they did all those cruel experiments on human prisoners in concentration camps: because they were not allowed to use animal subjects.
Sorry, I just had to violate Godwin’s Law right there. But by the same reductio ad Hitlerum, this is why one doesn’t find many Jewish vegetarians.
you know ghottistyx, while your evidently joking, there is some wisdom behind your words. the irony is quite dizzying.
Umm, no. You’re not making a bit of sense.
Hitler tried vegetarianism for reasons of health. He had digestive problems which were aggravated by meat. Himmler was a chicken farmer. Does that mean Jews don’t eat chicken? All the big time Bull Nazis drank. Does that slow Chabad’s Mountain Dew and Vodka parties down for even an instant?
As for liking dogs, the partnership between dog and man goes back at least 50,000 years and is found all over the world. Muslims think dogs are unclean. By your logic that means Jews should adore them.
It’s just fear and hatred of whatever isn’t part of the tawdry little world of the ghetto.
No, Bam was right, I was being completely tongue-in-cheek there. I was attempting to pull off a “Godwin’s Law”, sort of a Glenn Beck thing there. But unlike Messr. Beck, I don’t actually believe in the reductio ad Hitlerum logic.
For those of you into The Daily Show, I think Lewis Black put it the best about Glenn Beck’s case of Nazi Tourrettes. What Glenn Beck needs to do is lock himself in an attic for 3 years with no food and water, and DON’T MAKE A SOUND! We’ll call him when it’s safe to come out!
On a serious note, though, weren’t the Nazis one of the first countries to actually makes laws protecting animals? Back when I was in yeshiva, our mashgiach used to use this to show just how twisted the Nazis were: that Jews, Gypsies, and homosexuals we can kill on the streets, but a dog we must treat with kindness. Of course, this doesn’t mean I’m against animal rights, but still a bit showing where their priorities were.
Lots of countries have had laws of one sort or another against animal cruelty going back at least to the Middle Ages in Europe.
:^O Eva Braun, in particular, supposedly hated Hitler’s favorite dog, Blondie. She admitted that whenever he was out of the room, she would give Blondie a swift kick under the table …. Hitler had Blondie euthanised before anyone else in the bunker.
first of all the partnership between men and dogs only goes back circa 1o-15 thousand yrs. http://archives.cnn.com/2002/TECH/science/11/21/coolsc.dogorigin/index.html
Rabbinic attitudes to dogs are somewhat ambiguous. On the one hand, it is permitted and even advisable to have guard dogs where there is danger of attack (a Midrash states that God gave Cain a dog to protect him in his wanderings) but, on the other hand, there are stern warnings against a Jew keeping a vicious dog in his house.
In the Garden of Eden, man’s relationship to the animals was one of fellowship. Of course only man was created in God’s image, and so the human race is dominant; the Torah tells us that man was created to “rule over the fish of the sea and the fowl of the sky, and all of the animals which swarm on the earth.” (Bereshis 1:28.) But this domination is not an exploitative one. At that stage, man was not permitted to eat animals, as we learn from the very next verse which limits the first man’s diet to plants. And we had no need for animals for labor, since labor was unnecessary until after the sin of Adam and Chava, when man was sentenced to live by the “sweat of his brow”. (Bereshis 3:19)
It would seem that man’s relationship to animals was similar to that of a pet owner, who has a friendly relationship, yet the human remains the master. The Torah tells us that man gave names to all the animals, but was unable to find a true soul mate from among them (Bereshis 2:19). Chazal infers that Adam sought such an intimate relationship with his animal companions, but found that he could not achieve it.
However, this ideal relationship was not sustainable for man’s imperfect state. Unfortunately, adopting such an enlightened attitude towards animals had the side effect of eroding the ethical sensitivity towards people. We find a hint of this in the story of Cain and Hevel. The Torah tells us that Cain brought an offering to God from “the fruit of the land”, while Hevel brought “from the first-born of his flock”. (Bereishis 4:3-4) Cain seems to be displaying a higher ethical sensitivity. How can Hevel slaughter his fellow creatures as an offering to God? Yet we see that the outcome of this ideological confrontation is that Cain murders his own brother. We find today also that among those who promote an admirable enlightened sensitivity towards animals, there are a few who go too far and put this obligation before our obligations to our fellow man. Not long ago I was at an ethics conference in which one scholar explicitly affirmed that in her opinion a person’s responsibility to rescue a pet could legitimately come before the responsibility to rescue a neighbor.
This tension between the ideal state of fellowship with animals and the threat of diminished sensitivity to people shapes the attitude of Jewish law towards animals. After the flood, meat was permitted to mankind, as the far lesser of two evils. (Bereishis 9:3-4.) Animal sacrifices in the Torah are permitted and in many cases mandatory. This is the relationship to animals dictated by mankind’s current imperfect state. However, the Torah is also meant to guide us back to the ideal situation of fellowship with animals, and as a result we are commanded to treat animals in a humane way, and we are restricted in our eating of meat. In practice only domestic species are eaten, and only after ritual slaughter which reminds us of the seriousness of our acts and also is meant to ensure a humane slaughter.
The same tension in our relationships toward animals is also found in the various rulings made about pets. Some authorities took a very negative attitude towards pets. This approach was no doubt colored by the living example of many European nobles of their time who cared for their dogs better than they cared for their serfs. This skepticism towards pet ownership is a rational acknowledgment of the potential danger of adopting ethical imperatives which are actually beyond our current ethical level.
However, the Shulchan Aruch doesn’t mention any particular restrictions on having pets. And the sages of the Talmud and the Talmudic era continue to acknowledge the unique connection that exists between an animal and its owner. In one place, the Talmud acknowledges the unique canine characteristic of loyalty to the master. Elsewhere, we learn that animals can absorb the sensitivity to holiness displayed by a righteous master. For example, we learn that the donkey of the renowned saint Rabbi Pinchas ben Yair refused to eat untithed produce, leading the Talmud to comment “the Holy One blessed by He doesn’t make the animal of a righteous person an [ethical] obstacle.” The Midrash tells of a cow that became accustomed to resting on Shabbat and refused to work on that day even after being sold to a non-Jew, until its former owner gently explained that the new master was not obligated to provide a day of rest.
And all authorities, including those who disapproved of pet ownership, acknowledge that household animals must be treated in a humane fashion.
On a side note, hitler was a vegetarian for health reasons, not because he thought it was wrong to kill animals. He abstained from alcohol and tobacco as well. He thought that eating meat, drinking alcohol, and smoking would cause health problems. If you read all of this then (read with accent of 70 yr. old yiddishe alte hocker from boro park) You should hev a chaim shel sholom vshel hatzolocha raba you should be zoiche to build a bais neeman byisroel and see your kinderlach and der einkelach grow in toirah ahavas yisroel and ahavas hashem…
Wow! Beautifuly written!
on a side note, he also banned hunting and it was because he cared about animal rights. hitler ws nice to animals and good with dogs, he would have agreed with a lot of these anti-frum dog-loving comments on this thread.
Excellent essay. Do you have a blog for this sort of thing?
The 10,000 vs. 50,000 years is an interesting area of scientific debate. So far it’s still an open question.
Animals can be very useful for teaching children important lessons that will serve them well as Jews and human beings. Responsibility towards those who depend on you. How to care for another. Actions speak louder than words. Kindness. Firmness. How to be a friend. Communication.
haha
As someone who went to frummy yeshivas for elementary and high school, I can give you 2 reasons why frummies dislike dogs.
1) Dogs are considered to be dirty animals because you have to pick up their poop;
2). Dogs are associated with European anti-Semitism in Eastern Europe. Throughout history before WW 2, dogs were used by Jew-hating policemen to harrass and attack Jews on the street. My mother a’h was am Auschwitz survivor who grew up in Czechoslovakia, and she told me stories about how in the late ’30s and early ’40s, she would see German soldiers unleash their dogs and yell “baas dem Yude!” (Bite the Jew!) My mother associated dogs with fear and terror and so hated dogs until the day she died four years ago.
Cat’s too? :p
I think we sort of hate German shepherds and Rottweiler due to their malicious history. But cocker spaniels? Poodles? Golden retrievers?
Jews are just kooky sometimes. (Actually I never heard of frummies fear of dogs.)
If a Jew did someone wrong I would hope his grandson would treat the Jews he met fairly rather than hating them on that account.
Considering how often I have to clean out the litter box, yes.
If you have any kind of livestock you have to muck out the manure.
Sigh. These people are starting to make me so TIRED. I’ve just had a conversation on Facebook with someone whose husband won’t allow a cat in the house because it’s a nonkosher animal, while presumably the mice they have are perfectly kosher. So I’ll just repeat here what I said over there. I have no more energy in this heat to argue with coprocephalic morons.
The Torah I believe in says that you have to see that your animals are fed before you sit down to eat. It says that the cat exemplifies cleanliness and modesty – it is constantly washing itself, and covers up its waste. And that dogs, because they didn’t alert the Egyptians by barking when we fled Egypt, deserve to be rewarded by giving them any … See Moremeat that turns out to be non-kosher. The Torah I believe in was given to a people who coexisted with animals in their daily lives, and needed laws to teach them how to treat their animal companions with kindness, just as they needed laws to ensure that they treated their fellow human beings with justice.
Not to mention that a dog loves its humans and is faithful and loyal to them. The Sufis say “If all murids (chossids) had the love and faith of dogs there would be no need for shaykhs (rabbis).”
A. Nuran, about the Sufis … some Muslims have problems with dogs too though, although the evidence for the ownership of dogs being halal or haram for a Muslim is kind of contradictory. At least from what I understand.
On the one hand, if someone wants to eat or drink from a dish a dog ate or drank from there is an elaborate process to “kosher” (if you will) the dish, involving water and even sand. On the other hand, there is the story of a person attaining Paradise simply by giving water to a thirsty dog, I believe.
Mahla, well aware of the unfriendly relations between many Muslims and dogs. Even so, there are Sunnah of Mohammed praising dogs’ faithfulness and their love for their masters.
Yes! Like the story about the thirsty dog. And I really, really like to err on the side of all religions liking animals. I think that all animals should be regarded in a friendly way by religious faiths!
My comment to any anti-dog Muslim would be, “Why would dogs be created & why would they be so friendly to humans & so close with us if that was not the will of Allah?!” :^)
you cant control the mice problem now can you?
This is way better than a brick & mortar etsabilshenmt.
THE REBBE HAD A DOG GROWING UP
Which one?
Rover. Or maybe Spot.
Hee hee! ;^D
Heshy, do you erect an eruv for Shabbos when you go camping?
We do. I even have pictures!
Does anyone want me to write a guest post about Shabbos camping? I think Heshy should collaborate with me on this….
Oops, I meant to post this in the “vacation” thread. Sorry!
People are allowed to erect their own eruv while camping? That’s really cool and useful! I had no idea!
Got Facebook? If so, I can show you photos of the camping eruv we put up.
Yeah! I will totally Facebook you Tova! :^)
keeping pets is a new western fashion. traditionally dogs were kept for practical reasons like hunting, sheep herding, bear-baiting, or raised for food etc. now they are used as an emotional outlet but this isn’t the custom of anybody’s ancestors.
i like dogs. i always wanted a dog when iwas small but the reason we weren’t allowed to have a dog was they are expensive and hard work to take care of, not because of god. :-/
Mmmm, not exactly. While peoples’ relationship to animals has been more utilitarian in the past there are tons of precedents for animals being kept as pets stretching back millennia from Chinese dogs bred particularly as pocket-sized companions to ancient Hawaiians keeping some pigs as pets and others as food. The Kama Sutra counsels against keeping pet mynahs and parrots in the bedroom because of the language and sounds they might pick up there.
And so on.
The bit about the Kama Sutra was new to me and PRICELESS! Awesome! :^) But also very practical and sensible advice, now that I sit here and think about it! :^O
The bird thing isn’t so far fetched. My aunt had this bird that swore like a sailor and told people to go f*&^ themselves.
Frummies need to get a freakin’ lfe and adopt a more progressive attitude. If we can’t own dogs b/c they are not kosher then those who own goldfish or hamsters are screwed. Puh-leez!!!!
In references to other statements people made about canine phobia via Holocaust, I could understand their concerns but A) the Frummies in this generation have never been through the Holocaust B) Whats there to be scared of a puppy or a Golden Retriever? Most dogs are harmless. Little children aren’t anymore tame.
I can relate to those who don’t like being seen on dates. Now that I’m married it doesn’t matter now. When I was going out, this guy took me to a restaurant that I didn’t want to go to. He insisted so I didn’t argue. Needless to say, I say everyone I knew at this restaurant and they likewise saw me. Even though I have only been out with this guy once, rumors started spreading that we were engaged or about to get engaged. It took a lot of effort to plug the leak and clarify to people that I was no where close to getting engaged to which they asked us why we ate at that restaurant. So I understand why some people prefer to keep a low profile about their dating life. People are just that damn nosy in those circles.
Everything else about Frummies worst fears is a load of crock.
minor technical point, I think goldfish are kosher
They have fins and scales. Besides, doesn’t ‘unkosher’ mean you can’t eat something, not that you can’t keep it as a pet?
If an animal is unkosher, can you keep it as a pet, or is that forbidden?
Yes, you can keep non-kosher animals as pets, such as horses, camels, dogs, cats, mice, pigs, roaches, butterflies, ants, sharks, whales, elephants. But why would you want to keep an elephant as a pet?
The elephant would be great for remembering where you left your keys.
Old joke…
“Moishe, have I got a deal for you! I can get you an elephant for $100.”
“An elephant? What would I do with an elephant? I live in a two story walkup. I couldn’t afford to feed it.”
“I can get you two elephants for $150.”
“Now you’re talking!”
Hesh,
Typical response from frummies – when you tell them that you’ll be coming into money soon. Oh, now you’ll be able to sit and learn in kollel all day.
typical anti frummy response. to discredit as opposed to respond.
hilarious post! I work with mostly non-jews and secular jews, and sadly their impresssion of us frummies is that we are really neurotic. I will add one to the list, but under a subcategory: Stuff frummie tween girls are afraid of: eating a piece of birthday cake with Hannah Montanna on it. (A kid at my daughter’s party actually told me “I can’t eat a piece of the cake with HER on it”). unbelievable
lol
Us frummies would never set up Jews who are not observant.
More on the sex thing: when I was in BY learning navi we got to the whole Amnon raping Tamar thing. Of course we learned it as Amnon forcing Tamar to live with him.
When I lived in NY during my college years I found out that most of the Boro Park type schools don’t even teach it or pilegesh b’givah or Tamar and Yehuda (different Tamar, for the uninitiated). So I guess we were privileged in our out of town school.
Incidentally Tova and I went to the same school though I’m a decade older than her. Wonder if they changed the cirriculum after I graduated.
Reveal yourself! Lol.
I think they said that “Amnon attacked Tamar”.
Now I have to wonder why, if Amnon was a rapist, a kosher pizza company decided to name itself after him (“Amnon’s Pizza”).
Tova,
It’s not too hard to figure out who I am. Just add two letters to “shim” and there you go.
More on the s*x thing. When I went to Bais Yaacov and we learned the whole Amnon raping Tamar thing we learned it as Amnon forcing Tamar to live with him.
That’s pretty open minded compared to the Boro Park type schools which I’ve heard skip over the whole incident altogether as well as Yehuda and Tamar (different Tamar) the Pilegesh in Givah and other “unsavory” parts of Tanach.
Tova and I went to the same school though I’m a decade older than her. Tova, did they change the cirriculum when you went to BY?
In my BY, any reference to rape or s3x (I can’t believe that word is blocked…) was referred to as marriage. David married Batsheva after seeing her naked in the mikva (but only because he saw she would be the mother of Shlomo, not because he thought she was hot or anything). Amnon forced Tamar to marry him. I didn’t learn about the whole pulling out of the other Tamar to keep her from getting pregnant (and not ruin her figure) until I was in sem. Yehuda’s brothers just refused to marry her.
Julia,
Ditto for my BY. I figured out the onanism thing from reading one of the “forbidden” rashis we skipped over. Thank G-d for translator chumashim.
Did they have you guys read “The Wonder of Becoming You” in 6th grade? That was our s$x ed. Not that it mentioned s%x, it was about getting your period and all that.
Starting from 6th grade on we were told that what Torah is for a man, tznius is for a woman. Ad nauseum. It made me want to run around in a tank top, let me tell you.
“Torah is for a man, tznius is for a woman” — YIKES! :^O
I give up. I’m not sure what word I used that was blocked, but suffice it to say, in my BY we used marriage in place of anything referring to s.e.x.
What do they expect these girls to do? Get married and do The Thing That Makes Babies.
That’s pretty darned twisted. Even Torah isn’t kosher because someone doesn’t like what God is talking about? R4p3 is the same as marriage? T.O.S., you might have been better off running around in a tank top and enjoying being a young woman even, yes, having boys look at you than sitting still for that sort of perversion.
My reply got blocked, too. When rape is “marriage” or “living with” someone you’ve gone down the rabbit hole, and not in a good way.
When the Torah itself is altered because mere human beings think it’s not kosher you’re no longer practicing Judaism. You’re an idolator who has put him- or herself above God Almighty. And anyone who says otherwise is just as bad no matter how much Talmud he’s studied or how big a shtriemel he wears.
sorry for the double post I couldn’t get it to work the first time so I posted again and now it’s showing up an hour later?
welcome to the whacky world of wordpress spam moderation
BTW,
I live in an area where a lot of gentile retirees are moving away and being replaced by frum families. The (8 and 10 year old?) boys in one of the families always want to pet my cat (she’s indoor/outdoor) and pet the neighbor’s two dogs, one of which is a Belgian shepherd that looks like a Nazi guard dog. So there are exceptions to the rule. And, if you want to know their Charedi credentials, they don’t have internet.
it’s not even a rule. these dog-lovers are more scared of frummies than frummies are of their dogs.
I would just like to point out that there is another KissMeI’mShomer on these blog posts.
I don’t necessarily disagree with the points the other KissMe makes, just want to clarify that apparently there are two of us now.
Oh my gosh, it’s just plain CRAZY there are two of you! ;^D
I have been pondering ever since this post went up, what on earth is that dog doing in the picture?! It looks like it is delivering a small pizza! :^D
Baltimore seems to be an exception as frummies there actually own dogs. It’s funny to see women in wigs and snoods walking dogs…on shabbos too!
Baltimore is also known for it’s highly crazy baal teshuva population – those frummies are probably just BT’s or children of BT’s
A Nuran- you try very hard to sound intelligent and use an A Type personality to smack down quite factual arguments discrediting your points. Your angry vitriolic diatribes are disproportionate for the topic. You should really love your fellow man more than your dog. That doesn’t mean they should be kicked or abused either. This discussion is just silly already. 15000 years v. 50000 years? Seek therapy and figure out your anger.
Educated, feel free to believe whatever you want. You’re absolutely entitled to no matter how little it has to do with reality.
do you really think that Modern Orthodoxy is wrong are was that written tongue in cheek? I can’t tell
Modern orthodox people are bunch of kofrim who desrve to rot in hell – the shulchan aruch himself admitted that anyone caught wearing a yarmulke of any color other than black was over the avera of beged isha – meaning that all modern orthodox people are going to hell.
Are the frummies afraid of dogs, because they lick peoples’ faces?
I’ve heard that is why Muslims don’t like dogs. They consider dog saliva unclean.
The real reason? It’s just another stupid tribal prejudice for both the Muslims and the Frummies.
OMG! All these are so true and so funny and must be out in the open! Most of these things I HATE that they’re so scared of em!
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