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Beware of the US census bureau

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By Rabbi Rabbs

The Shulchan Aruch tells us that we must warn others of dangers (Choshen Mishpat 427:8). In fulfilling that Mitzvah, I feel it is my obligation to write this essay, as I recently had the misfortune of dealing with a dangerous arm of the federal government that has reached far beyond its authority, ripped up the Constitution, and violated individual rights of Americans.

That danger is called the United States Census Bureau, and for the past few weeks, its employees without just cause have harassed me in a bizarre obsession to ascertain private information from me that they have no business obtaining. In this essay, I will expound on all of the legal issues relevant to census surveys, and in doing so, we will learn what are our obligations as citizens, how I complied with federal law, and how the Bureau requests information that it is not empowered to ask. This essay will be a first-person, chronological account of what I learned and experienced, and everyone is welcome to draw your own conclusions.

My story began in 2008, when I received a survey in the mail from a private organization, I believe in Indiana, claiming authority to administer the national census. The long survey form looked very suspicious to me for three reasons: (1) It did not appear to be an official survey, because it was not sent directly from the US Government nor did it contain a Washington DC mailing address. I realized it was possible that the government had outsourced the work to a private contractor, but I had no proof that such an arrangement existed, so I was not about to provide any information to what appeared to be a scam. (2) The form was sent and due in 2008, which is not a census survey year according to Title 13 Section 141 of the US Federal Code that states: “The Secretary shall, in the year 1980 and every 10 years thereafter, take a decennial census of population as of the first day of April of such year, which date shall be known as the ‘decennial census date'”. Clearly, 2008 which is not divisible by 10, was not a sanctioned “decennial census date”. (3) The multi-page survey form asked tons of questions that were not only out of the scope of a census survey, but were downright invasive, such as asking me how much money I pay for housing and how much my utilities cost. The survey might as well have asked me who I slept with the night before.

With so many red flags and sirens going off in my head, I immediately investigated what the form was all about and who had sent it to me. A quick Internet search revealed that many other form recipients were similarly alarmed by such an intrusive questionnaire that had been sent to them. I soon confirmed that the survey had indeed been outsourced to a private agency. That solved one mystery. As I continued researching, I learned exactly what our obligations are in terms of census surveys. Article I Section 2 of the US Constitution gives Congress the right to enumerate the number of citizens in order to apportion members of Congress, as it states: “The actual enumeration shall be made within three years after the first meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent term of 10 years, in such manner as they shall by law direct.”

According to that law, our requirement is to inform Congress every 10 years as to how many citizens reside in our homes so that Congress can determine how to create congressional districts. That is all that we must do. So, in my case, my legal obligation is to report on the 2010 survey that only one person lives here, and by doing so, I fulfill my duty as a citizen by helping Congress to enumerate, and I’m not required to answer any more questions. As for the 2008 survey, that is not a sanctioned year for Congress to enumerate, so I was not required to answer anything, even though the form stated that failure to do so would constitute a violation with a penalty of $100. That warning is bunk! I took that survey with all of its unauthorized and unnecessary, intrusive questions, and shredded it. For the next 90 days or so, I was continually harassed with phone calls from census takers. I ignored all of their calls, and eventually the harassment stopped.

Fast forward to 2010. I received a census survey directly from the US Government complete with a DC address. Right year, right people. But, the survey itself once again asked questions that were well beyond the scope of what is sanctioned by Article 1 Section 2. So, I answered the first question which asked how many people live at my home. Then, I pasted a piece of paper below that question, and on that piece of paper, I quoted Article 1 Section 2 and stated that I had fulfilled my Constitutional requirement by answering the first question. I mailed the form in, and that should have ended my communication with the Census Bureau for the next 10 years. However, that was only the beginning. A couple of weeks ago, the Bureau made its first of many unannounced visits to my home in an attempt to obtain more information from me — information that it is not entitled to according to the Constitution. The first survey taker arrived while I had my front door open, as painters were busy painting in my living room. That is significant, because had I known she was working on behalf of the Bureau, I would not have opened the door for her, and I would not have engaged her in a conversation. Although the US Census Bureau’s web site states: “Open your door to the Census Taker”, we are not required by law to open our doors to them. If they demand us to open the door, then let them first provide to us a warrant.

In any event, I told the survey taker that I had mailed my form in so I could not understand why she would be sent to me. She told me that I had not completed the form sufficiently. I replied that I had fulfilled my obligation as per Article 1 Section 2 of the Constitution, and that she is not empowered by law to ask me anything further. She responded that I still needed to tell her my phone number and date of birth. I informed her that she isn’t even entitled to know that, and I said goodbye. Thankfully, she left or I would have needed to close the door even though fresh paint was permeating the room. The Bureau’s home page states: “Census takers are going door-to-door to roughly 48 million households that did not mail back their forms.” But I did mail back my form, so apparently, the government considers all of us law-abiding citizens that return our form but who do not fall for the Bureau’s unauthorized scam as if we never returned the form. Classy.

In addition, because I turned away the survey taker, I believe it is possible that the Bureau started stalking me. Why do I think that? Because a few days later, as soon as I emerged from my home for the first time that day (it was late in the afternoon already), I bumped head on into a survey taker who said, “you must be Hershel.” Even though I had never seen that individual before, he apparently recognized my face, knew exactly where I lived, and was familiar with my name despite the fact that nowhere on my survey that I submitted did it reveal my name, as the form was merely addressed to me as “Resident”. It creeps me out that as soon as I walked 10 feet out the door, that stranger was right there and knew so much info about me. It was almost as if he were lying in wait all day long for me to emerge from my abode. I told that stalker that I fulfilled my Constitutional duty by submitting my form and enumerating that only one person lives in my residence, and that he is not empowered to ask me anything more. He responded by handing me an official pamphlet published by the Bureau that he claimed sanctioned him to ask all of the questions printed in the survey. I replied that my lawyer told me that there are no such provisions according to the law (ok, that was just a bluff as I don’t have a lawyer, but I just wanted the stalker to leave). He told me that he’d leave but that the Bureau would continue to harass me until I would give to them the information they requested, and that they would send a series of survey takers to my door.

I read the official document that he gave to me, and it states, “You are required by law to provide the information requested. These federal laws are found in the United States Code, Title 13 (Sections 9, 141, 193, 214, and 221) and Title 44 (Section 2108).” I looked up each one of those six citations, and none of them say what the stalker and the Bureau he works for want them to say. Let us examine the Bureau’s six supposed legal sources:

Title 13 Section 141 says that the survey will be given every 10 years, as I mentioned earlier in the essay, and basically repeats what is mentioned in Article 1 Section 2 of the Constitution in regards to ascertaining how many people live in each residence so as to determine distribution of Congressional seats.

Three of the remaining five citations merely discuss privacy rights:

Title 13 Section 9 says the Census Bureau must keep my information private.

Title 44 Section 2108 reiterates that same law.

Title 13 Section 214 discusses the punishments for Bureau workers that disclose confidential information.

Only the following two could be construed as even being remotely relevant to whether I am required to answer anything besides how many people live in my residence, and so I will quote both in their entirety:

Title 13 Section 221: “Whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.”

According to that, Rabbs could be in trouble because he refused to answer the Bureau’s questions. Right? Wrong! The invasive questions the survey asked were not sanctioned by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of Title 13. Nowhere in any section of any subchapter within Title 13 does it grant Congress nor the Bureau any permission to ask any questions to me other than determining how many people live in my home. The only place within the entire Title 13 that says anything even remotely close to what the Bureau wants the federal code to say is in Title 13 Section 193 that states:

“In advance of, in conjunction with, or after the taking of each census provided for by this chapter, the Secretary may make surveys and collect such preliminary and supplementary statistics related to the main topic of the census as are necessary to the initiation, taking, or completion thereof.”

The operative words of that sentence would seem to be “as are necessary to the initiation, taking, or completion thereof”, and my birth date, phone number, and race are not necessary to the initiation, taking, or completion of the census survey authorized by that chapter. I challenge the Bureau to prove in court that the personal questions it asks in its offensive forms are necessary in determining how many people live in my voting district. Not only will the Bureau fail if it tries to prove that the questions are necessary, but it will not be able to prove that any of the six citations on its pamphlets empower survey takers to ask me anything other than how many residents live in my home. And, because I provided that information to the Bureau three times — once by mail and on two different occasions to census takers, I have more than fulfilled my obligation. Thus, the stalker was wrong and had no justification for interrogating me, and frankly, I think he deserves at least two minutes in the penalty box just for acting so creepy. However, the stalker was correct about one point — the Bureau would continue to harass me. This past week, a bunch of them pounded on my door like banshees, first on Shavuous, and then on Shabbos. As a Jew, I am not even permitted to talk to them on those holy days knowing that the census takers will write down whatever I say, so I just ignored them and didn’t even open the door.

But, the F*king Bureau got the last laugh. They left a voice mail message on my phone on Shabbos afternoon saying that they would no longer bother me because they found another way to obtain my private information. What unbelievable chutzpah by an arm of the government that is clearly out of control, does not respect boundaries nor borders, and does not respect law abiding citizens, our privacy, nor the Constitution and Federal Code which we follow. I pray that everyone is made aware of the truth regarding the Census Bureau and the damage that agency causes, and that no one falls victim to its corrupt methods. Amen.

  • shim

    Gives me the willies those creepers do.

  • M23

    sue them!!

  • http://righteousrasha.blogspot.com Tova

    As I’ve said in the past, Rabbi:

    Good work! Constitutionally illiterate census-takers can stick it where the sun don’t shine!

    Good Shabbos.

  • http://abanadoningeden.blogspot.com abandoning eden

    you are an idiot.

    The census collects this information in order to allocate money to your neighborhood. Information like your date of birth is used to target services- for instance in an area with a lot of children, more money is allocated towards schools, in an area with a lot of elderly people, more money is allocated to services for elderly people.

    By refusing to fill it out, the only person you are hurting are people in your own neighborhood who are in your demographic groups, because that group will get less money. Like yourself.

    Meanwhile, every time they send a person to your house because you refuse to fill out the form it costs the taxpayers a whole bunch of money. Congratulations, you just made our country worse.

    • Simchah

      He is an idiot for doing his Constitutional duty?

      • http://www.therealshliach.blogspot.com TRS

        It’s his constitutional duty to obstruct?

        • Simchah

          Obstruct? He gave the required information. Maybe he does not have kids who go to public school. Maybe he’s not a senior. Maybe he just does not want government aid. Maybe he just believes the government should respect his right to provacy, eh?

    • jimsez

      a eden, you seem to be the idiot here. America is NOT all about allocating (redistributing) money from those who work for a living to those who vote for a living. The abuses by the Census are illegal and only serve the progressives and their “paid voters” to target areas most likely to be willing to sell their votes for more and more . Progressives (democrats) abhores “profiling” they say, but how does one catagorize citizens by age, race, homeowner, renter, etc WITHOUT PROFILING?
      WISE UP! When a government employee knocks on your door and says, “I’m here to help you.”; tell then NO! They are only there to make you dependent (read Slave) on the money they take from hard working citizens and use it to buy “their power over your very lives.”

      • http://abandoningeden.blogspot.com abandoning eden

        they don’t share this info with any marketing company, in fact they disguise the information so it’s impossible to identify such things. They are extremely paranoid about the confidentiality of identifying information, and do not share it with anyone, even researchers can’t get that information.

        • Simchah

          The fact is, Rabbs’ right to privacy was infringed upon when these goons harassed him in their attempts to get information they’re not entitled to. That is all there is to it.

          • http://abandoningeden.blogspot.com abandoning eden

            where in the constitution does it say you have the right not to have the government know this information about you? I must have missed that one..

            • Guest 2

              AE,

              I don’t know whether the rabbi is right or wrong. But you miss a much BIGGER issue at hand and that is an expanded government with too much power. Sure, you can list some good perks, but do those perks out weigh the negative effects of a more powerful centralized government. So it doesn’t matter if they share with others, or if it leads to some good stuff in the beginning. The point is the long term consequences, which I believe the rabbi understands to be troubling.

          • bev

            The 4th amendment states:
            The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

        • http://righteousrasha.blogspot.com Tova

          “They are extremely paranoid about the confidentiality of identifying information, and do not share it with anyone”

          Why would they be so? They’ve shared it in the past…with the federal government:

          http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=confirmed-the-us-census-b

        • BOLOGNA

          @ abandoning eden – Not true, the little frail guy that did my census in his beat up car could have easily been robbed of all his as you say: “Safe Confidential Information”. Any body can have it, it is on a clip board!!! How can you even say Confidentiality and Federal government in the same paragraph? PLEASE GET REAL!!!!

    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

      “you are an idiot.”:

      So it follows that the state can use violence against this man because he happens to disagree with them?

      You are missing the entire point of the Census. If it was to collect infromation in a peaceful way then I am fine with. But it is not. How many people were already harassed by the people in authority for not answering questions? You defend the harassment of peaceful individuals? That is what the entire point of the complaint behind the census is about. It is not about them collecting infromation, it is about them harassing people who refuse.

      • http://abandoningeden.blogspot.com abandoning eden

        um, where did I or anyone say the state can use violence? My husband works for the census, they do not use violence against people, they just knock on your door until you answer the questionnaire, and if you won’t, they try to get that info from your neighbors. They are very careful about keeping the information protected. I also use census data for my research, and have published articles using census data, and they are very very careful about keeping identities anonymous, I have no way of figuring out who individuals are in the dataset. The constitution actually specifically requires that the government count people, and it is the easiest way to collect this information, which they use to distribute resources appropriately. All this other stuff is paranoid BS by a bunch of anti-government fools.

        • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

          “um, where did I or anyone say the state can use violence?”

          What happens if people refuse to answer the questions?

          If you knock on the door and collect infromation or ask the neighbors about their basic infromation, fine, I got no problem with that. But that is not what always happens. Many people have been harassed already.

          “The constitution actually specifically requires that the government count people”:

          Who cares what the Constitution says? When was the last time when people actually listened to it. Year after year is one attack against the Constitution. I personally do not care for the Constitution, you can rip it up and replace it with a new one. But what bothers me is how people pretend they care what the Constitution says when they ignore it on almost every issue year after year. The Constitution is like a Bible. We cherry pick what we like and throw away things we do not like.

          “All this other stuff is paranoid BS by a bunch of anti-government fools.”:

          The government has been the cause of so much human suffering and human abuse. Not just in the US but all over the world. There is nothing foolish about being opposed to it. Thomas Jefferson, one of my heros, was certainly anti-government, but I doubt you can claim him to be a fool. Being anti-authority is an American virtue which would not be condemned.

          • http://abandoningeden.blogspot.com abandoning eden

            if you refuse to answer they keep coming back, up to 6 times, and then they try to get the information from your neighbors. That’s their procedure- to try to get the information 6 times before giving up (4 times by 2 different regular census takers, twice by their supervisors). How is knocking on your door 6 times harassment? It’s not like they are threatening people…in fact census workers are frequently assaulted and have to deal with all sorts of crap like threatening phone calls from these types of people, who they are just trying to collect basic info from as the constitution requires them to do.

            And I care about the constitution, all parts of it (yes, including the right to bear arms) and do not think that just because recent presidents have decided to bend the rules means that this is right, or that we should just do away with the whole thing altogether.

            The “government” isn’t one monolithic entity that oppresses us from above, it is made up of elected official elected by the PEOPLE in order to represent our interests. And Thomas Jefferson was the freakin president of the US, how is that anti-government? Unless you mean that he was pro state GOVERNMENT rights and advocated for a smaller federal governement and larger state GOVERNMENTS. Jebus, you are an idiot.

            • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

              “The “government” isn’t one monolithic entity that oppresses us from above, it is made up of elected official elected by the PEOPLE in order to represent our interests.”:

              The mentality that “We are the state” is a delusional mentality. It is the modern day equivalent of the divine right of kings. It is an excuse for power to have authority over the people. If you really believe in “we are the state” then answer me this question. If we really are the state and the state does not oppress us then try buying and taking some LSD. See what happens. Then tell me if you still believe in your statist garbage.

              “And Thomas Jefferson was the freakin president of the US, how is that anti-government?”:

              He was anti-government nonetheless. Did you ever read and of the things that he said. It is clear what his attitude was. He did not want to abolish the state but he had very negative feelings about it.

              “Jebus, you are an idiot.”:

              Answer my question. If someone refuses to participate in the census he will eventually get fined. Now, what happens if he refuses to pay those fines? What happens to someone if he ignores the fines imposed on him? I want you to answer this question. You never address this. I keep on asking it and it is the one question you never answer me.

            • Jack Mehoff

              Actually, I’ve heard that it’s the census workers who are making the threatening phone calls.

    • John

      Agreed AE, Im so glad we can be friends, and agree once in a while.
      Skeptic, I was getting worried about you. Im glad you are ok. It was fun beating you in that argument.
      Till the next one then, All the best!!

      • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com

        “Agreed AE”:

        So you agree with her that the state can use violence against people who refuse to answer the questions?

        “It was fun beating you in that argument.”:

        I responded to your comment. You still never answered my main question that I keep on posing to you. You been avoided it entirely. Either by circular reasoning or by sending me websites without a defense of your own position.

        • John

          Im Sorry, i didnt see your response till after this comment.
          I never avoided your question i answered and expalined over and over citing examples galore. lets keep that discussion there please, if you dont mind
          Now i am getting more and more certain that theres somenting not so right in your head. When does she say the state can use violence? ive read her post 3 times trying to find that line. Its in your comment, not hers

          • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

            “When does she say the state can use violence? ive read her post 3 times trying to find that line. ”

            You have to learn that some things are implicit. Sometimes it is not openly stated but it can be implied from what was stated. Her response to the article of a man who was harassed was calling him a “fool”. So I asked her why she would support violence because harassment can be a form of violence.

            • John

              Agrreing with her stament doesnt mean i agree with faulty inferences youve made.
              (Are you apreceating the irony of us arguing on two comments i made on AE, in the one where I agreed with her you disagree with me, and the one i disagree with her you also disagree with me. Of course you are so wrong in both of your arguments and its such fun knocking you down over and over again, though I feel a little it is like taking candy from a baby,)

              • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                “Agrreing with her stament doesnt mean i agree with faulty inferences youve made.”:

                Why are my inferences faulty? I said that the man was harassed for not participating in the census. Thus, I inferred that she supports violence being done to this man who refused to participate because harassment can be a form of violence. How is this a faulty inference.

                “Of course you are so wrong in both of your arguments and its such fun knocking you down over and over again”:

                It is easy to claim someone is wrong and fool can do that. What I kept on waiting from you in my other comment is a response to the question I asked, a question you cannot answer.

                • John

                  My sincerest apalogies for calling your inference3 faulty. Your inferencce was beyond retarded. Nowhere in that ridicuolusly long delusional article did he mention he was the victim of violence. you pulled that out thin air, and claimed that AE was ok with it just because she correctly called this retard an idiot. Then you said I agrred with violence becasue I agreed with her.

                  • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                    “Nowhere in that ridicuolusly long delusional article did he mention he was the victim of violence.”:

                    Why is it a delusional article? There is nothing delusion about it. If you read what I wrote more carefully you would realize that I never said that violence was done against him. I said he was harassed, and then I said that harassment can be a form of violence. Notice that “can be” term added in there.

                    I do not understand what he did was so wrong? He did not want to answer various questions because we wants privacy. He certainly has a right to have privacy. So if he does not want to answer those questions why must he be made to answer those questions? I do not understand why AE is defending the Census Brearu but not defending the individual that did not wrong especially when the Brearu is bothering him now.

                    Now we have to get to the violence part because I think this is the most important aspect that people do not realize. Generally (not specific to this story) violence will be used against those people who fail to participate, not immediately, but ultimately. If you still do not understand what I mean consider the question that I asked. I asked, “what happens if he decides not to participate”? Would what happen with him? If you answer this question you will realize how relevent was my point regarding violence on this article.

                    “you pulled that out thin air”:

                    I never said that AE supports using violence. I asked her a question. I asked, “do you think violence should be used against people who fail to participate?”. I am sure she would say “no” like almost all people. However, and this was going to be my main point, the way the Census is set up it ultimately leads to violence against people who do not participate, not immediately but ultimately.

                    “she correctly called this retard an idiot”:

                    Why is this person an idiot? From the article he seems to be a semi-intelligent person. I would not have a problem myself answering those kinds of questions but other people might. And I respect their right to their own privacy and choose not to answer those questions. What makes an idiot for feeling this way?

                    • http://abandoningeden.blogspot.com abandoning eden

                      In what way does a government worker stopping by your house 6 times and then asking your neighbors for info about you lead to violence? Unless you mean the violence of idiots like yourself against census workers, cause that happens on a regular basis.

                    • Jack Mehoff

                      I agree with SkepticButJewish. If we allow the census bureau to plant a stalker in our bushes in 2010, then we have no one to blame but ourselves when in 2020 the bureau sends a couple of big gangster goons to our door to intimidate us, and in 2030 or 2040 it threatens to extract the info from us through waterboarding or imprisonment.

                    • http://abandoningeden.blogspot.com abandoning eden

                      also, since when does anyone have a right to privacy? The constitution says the government can’t unreasonable search your property, it doesn’t say anything about the government not knowing your identity and basic information about you.

                  • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                    “In what way does a government worker stopping by your house 6 times and then asking your neighbors for info about you lead to violence?”:

                    Answer my question. What happens if a person refuses to participate in the census? I want to know. I think I know what happens. But I want to hear from you because you know more about it than I do. Answer this question and it will become more clear.

                    “Unless you mean the violence of idiots like yourself against census workers, cause that happens on a regular basis.”:

                    Yes people like me beat up census workers on a regular basis. It is just our hobby. We have nothing better to do so we purposfully go out of our way to find census workers and beat them up. We people who believe in privacy are just the most violent people are there. You got it exactly right.

                    • http://abandoningeden.blogspot.com abandoning eden

                      if you don’t answer the question they get the answer from your neighbors. Technically they can fine you if you don’t answer the questions, but they don’t actually enforce that. Now tell me, which part of that is violence?

                      I’m not saying people “beat up” census workers but in my husband’s census group (he is a census crew leader) he has had someone dump a 2 liter bottle of soda over a census person’s head which ruined a bunch of paperwork from other houses, and several threatening phone calls including ones that are like “don’t come by my house again OR ELSE.” And that’s just in one census tract!

                    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                      “Technically they can fine you if you don’t answer the questions, but they don’t actually enforce that. Now tell me, which part of that is violence?”:

                      That is the part you are blind to because you have the statist mentality which makes you unable to see the gun used. Now tell me what happens if he refuses to pay the fine.

    • http://righteousrasha.blogspot.com Tova

      “Congratulations, you just made our country worse.”

      Yeah, because stuff like this never made our country worse: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=confirmed-the-us-census-b

    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

      “Meanwhile, every time they send a person to your house because you refuse to fill out the form it costs the taxpayers a whole bunch of money. Congratulations, you just made our country worse.”:

      This statement is completely ridicolous. I continually amazed with your non-stop worshipping of the state. Never in any of these discussions have you condemned the state for its actions. It always some individual who is minding his own business that is at fault with you.

      I am amazed how you can say that this individual wastes taxpayers money. Who is the one taking away money from the taxpayers in the first place? Who is the one who is in an oversea empire over the world? Who is the one who is in spending billions of dollars on this ‘war on drugs’? Who is the one who is spending more of its money to increase the police force? Who is the one who is spending the money to kill many innocent Iraqis in a country that poses no threat to us at all? And I can go on and on. The list is huge. Many of these things were not even decided by the people, but against their will. So much for you dumb belief that “we are the state”. It is the state who wastes taxpayers money. In the trillions every year. Many taxpayers are unhappy and do not want to pay, but they have no other option. The state wastes all this money on the day to day basis, dehumanizes people every day, and all you can say to this individual who wants to mind his own business that he wastes taxpayers money? You delusional worship to the state is beyond belief.

      • Jack Mehoff

        Furthermore, I don’t see how Rabbs can be blamed for the tax costs of sending the workers out continually to harass him. He made it clear the first time that he’s not going to provide the info, so wtf keep bothering him with taxpayer money when you know he’s not going to cooperate? Talk about retarded! It’s the stupid government, not the rabbi, who is wasting money!

        • http://righteousrasha.blogspot.com Tova

          I like the way both of you think. Please email me so we can discuss this Census Bureau thing some more.

    • http://BING Pamela Rosa

      shisha, to you that replies to knowing nothing about the harrasement, and pure HELL they put you through!!! I am a 58 yr. old disabled lady, who has been stalked by these S.O.B.”s for too long!!! I have talked to then over the phone (as they have continuously harrassed me, and answered all their questions, until I stared asking questions back!!??!! He stated he came in with his white note-book, sit down in my chair, and spoke with me!!! LIE!! I live in a small effienciecy, no chair, and he stood at my door, backing away as I tried to see what small white card he was holding!! I ask him, over the phone, what was this about, and he replied, he was looking for someone else who previously lived here; yet he ask if my name wqas Pamela Rosa, when he came to my door!!! HUM,,,,HOW COULD THAT BE?? Several more questions were ask, and he even told me when he would be calling back!!! I have his name and phone number on my “CALLER ID”!!! WHO THE HELL ARE THREY?? ALIENS DRESSED AS HUMANS GEWTTING READY TO INVADE US?? HA…SOUNDS AND FEELS THAT BIZZARE, WE all know our Gov”t. cannot be trusted!!! Go to ANY WEBSITE, AND I MEAN ANY…AND SEE ALL THE COMPLAINTS OF PEOPLE GOING THROUGH NTHE SAME THING, THEN CALL THIS JEW ANY NAME YOU WANT. MEANWHILE, WE WILL BE PRAYING FOR YOU. AND THEM TOO. THE CENSUS ISN”T EVEN DUE TO BE TAKEN AGAIN FOR 8 YEARS (I BELIEVE?) GOOD LUCK, MAYBE THEY”LL COME TO YOUR DOOR NEXT, AND YOU”LL GET IT….PEACE, SHALOM, GOD SPEED, AND MAY THE HOLY SPIRIT PROTECT YOU AND YOURS.

  • Kvetch, please!

    Firstly, I agree with Abandoning Eden.

    Secondly, filling out the census required less time and agony than reading such an insufferable, needlessly paranoid article.

    Are you and your family on Medicaid? Do you use any government services? Do you pay taxes?

    Next time you feel the need to call the police or the fire department, don’t bother. If you can’t be helpful to your government and the services it provides, then you shouldn’t be a hypocrite and expect them to be helpful to you.

    • Kvetch, please!

      Thirdly, upon realizing this is Rabbs’ work, I assume it’s a joke based on real Hasidim paranoia and I just annoyed myself.

    • Simchah

      Filling out your census form in the Constitutionally mandated way precludes your deserving to call 911!

  • Esther

    Don’t know enough about the author to figure out whether this is intended to be serious or satiric.

    Regardless, Abandoning Eden is exactly right. The census data is the ONLY source of statistical information that is credible and reliable and it is used for funding allocation. So, if you want the community organizations in YOUR community to get funding so they can keep operating, I strongly suggest full cooperation with the Census. This only happens every ten years. Stop whining and fill out the damn form!

    • Simchah

      He did his Constitutional duty

      • Esther

        Simchah – you’ve got 5 comments on here (and counting no doubt). Seems like you want to argue about this.

        I personally don’t even know if its worth my while to debate something that may have been meant as a joke with someone who clearly took it seriously, but here goes [as I’m bored]:

        He may have done his constitutional duty, but he is also doing a disservice to his community and creating a hassle for himself. So, like I said, stop whining and fill out the damn form.

        Your move.

        • Simchah

          Rabbs did what he was supposed to do. The government harassed him for no Constitutional reason. That is all there is to it.

    • Simchah

      If you want to waive your right to privacy, cool. It’s your choice. The fact that people like you think Rabbs was in the wrong for choosing to exercize his is ridiculous. Maybe he has no concern one way or another for his local community organizations. Maybe he felt all the gov’t needed to know was how many people live in his home…that is, after all, what you are required to divulge.

      • Esther

        Someone said this before me and it is certainly worth reiterating. If he has no concern for his community and refuses to get the purpose behind the census, then when he needs government funding or community resources and finds that there is none, he should understand why. That is all there is to it.

        • Hugh Dick

          Esther, if you have no concern about the government committing extortion against you by its sending out goons to collect your private information, and if you refuse to stand up against that wrongdoing, then when you are water boarded and forced under threat of imprisonment to divulge how many times per week your husband gives it to you each week doggy style, and how many times each month he bitch slaps you during sex, you should understand why. That is all there is to it.

        • Hugh Dyck

          Esther:

          If you have no concern about the government committing extortion against you by its sending out goons to collect your most private information, and if you refuse to stand up against that wrongdoing, then when you are water boarded and forced under threat of imprisonment to divulge how many times per week your husband gives it to you doggy style, and how many times each month he bitch slaps you while you are getting it on, you should understand why. That is all there is to it.

          • P.T. Hetic

            your writing style is familiar, Mike Roe-Scopi Kawk

          • http://abandoningeden.blogspot.com abandoning eden

            oh please, your name, birthday, race, and the number of people in your house and their relationship to you is your “Most private info?”??

            You honestly think people are going to be water boarded for not answering the census? Wow….I don’t even know how to respond to that level of insane paranoia.

            • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

              But what happens with people who refuse to answer census questions?

              • A. Nuran

                Nothing happens to them except for followup visits from census workers.

                Nothing.

                The Black Helicopters don’t take them away to Obama Youth Indoctrination Camps.

                They aren’t shot.

                They aren’t arrested.

                They aren’t forced to listen to Ed Schultz or have dinner with Bernie Sanders.

                They aren’t forcibly converted to Pastafarianism.

                Not a single goddam thing happens to them except that they have to live with being paranoid dimwits.

                • http://skepticbutjewish SkepticButJewish

                  “Nothing happens to them except for followup visits from census workers.

                  Nothing.”:

                  Wrong. Read the law before saying what you said.

                  • A. Nuran

                    I know the law. It’s against the law not to fill out the census. But I’ve actually been involved with it. And the policy was to try and follow up and then give it up after a while. Nobody was arrested. Nobody was prosecuted.

                    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                      What about the part of the law that says “Whoever … refuses or willfully neglects … shall be fined not more than $100″ ?

                    • John

                      So harrasment is viloence and fines are violence. I think you need a new dictionary my friend. Is is your new and improved one coming along?

                  • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                    “So harrasment is viloence and fines are violence. I think you need a new dictionary my friend. Is is your new and improved one coming along?”:

                    Where did I say harrasment implies violence. I said that harrasment can be violence. Read carefully. And secondly where did I say fines are violent? Point to me where I say that? What you are doing is playing the strawman game, what are you, Bill O’Reilly?

                    What I said about A Nuran was to correct her mistake. She told me nothing happens for those who fail to participate in the census. I said the violence is the ultimate end result of those who refuse to participate. Not immediate but ultimate. At first they keep on asking you question. What if you refuse? You get fined (A Nuran was wrong). Now answer this question. What happens if you refuse to pay the fines?

                • Jack Mehoff

                  The Jews in 1930s Germany would likewise trash Rabbs as an idiot, retard, and paranoid dimwit for not trusting the Nazi government.

                  • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                    Even though I am a godless secular Jewish atheist, I surprisingly find myself to get along so much better with religious Orthodox Jews than secular Jews. Because the secular Jews do not listen to the timeless wisdom of the great Thomas Jefferson. His wisdom was only vindicated over the years. The secular Jews are pro-state. Rather than seeing the state as a necessary evil, they develop a trust towards it. It makes me sad. The warning that Jefferson taught us have been long forgotten by most. But Orthodox Jews at least understand this so much better than secular Jews. And strangely I find myself more allied with Orthodox Jews.

                    • Jack Mehoff

                      Right on :)

                    • John

                      As an orthodox jew and one who stands up for orthodx judasim on this blog against those like yourself, AE andA. Nuran who hate us. i assure you that no sane orthodox Jew can possibly think you have your head screwed on right. At least with them we can agree on some non-religious based issues like this, where they dont have delusional paranoid views of the governemt. I mean seriously what do YOU think happens to people who refuse to pay the fines, get real.

                    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                      “where they dont have delusional paranoid views of the governemt.”:

                      Why paranoid? Paranoia occurs when people fear in something unnecessary. My fear is justifiy. Who is the one who enslaved about 1% of our population many of whom are enslaved in jails for putting substances into their bodies that can only belong to themselves? Who is the one who murdered the innocent Japanese during WW2 by dropping atomic bombs on populations that had nothing to do with the war? Who is the one who then interned Japanese American into camps because of the war by ignoring the entire legal procedure? Who is the one who have killed already in the hundreds of thousands of Iraqis who pose no threat to us at all. Who is doing this? You are the one who is delusional who fails to realize the evils that is preformed by this state each day and in the past. I am not paranoid, all of these things have happened, and they may again happen.

                      “I mean seriously what do YOU think happens to people who refuse to pay the fines, get real.”:

                      Answer my question. What happens to people who refuse to pay fines? I told you that the ultimate outcome of those who fail to comply in the census is violence. You think I am wrong. But I am not. And I am trying to demonstrate to you. So answer my questions and you will see how correct I was.

                    • John

                      Skeptic ready for the answer: nothing happens it is that simple.
                      Is there any law you support becasue your absurd argument would work against any law:
                      LAW: it is illegal to run red lights…
                      Delusinal quack (you): and what if you do?,
                      Normal people: well you get a ticket
                      Delusinal quack : and what if you dont pay the ticket, I guess you are ok with violence
                      See any law (not deserving of a violent response) can be dismissed with your absurd reasoning.

                    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                      “Skeptic ready for the answer: nothing happens it is that simple.
                      Is there any law you support becasue your absurd argument would work against any law:”:

                      Stop dancing around my question and answer it straight. Stop bringing red lights into this conversation. I asked a very direct and simple question. I asked what happens to someone who refuses to pay a census fine. Answer that directly. Call me whatever you wish but you have not answered my simple question. No one has so far on this site. Tell me what happens if you refuse to pay the census fine.

                    • John

                      I did answer, this seems to be a recurring theme with you. I’ll answer again: nothing happens. I answered as directly and simply as possible.
                      Now I have a question for you, How do you feel about laws making it illegal to run a red light?

                    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                      “I did answer, this seems to be a recurring theme with you. I’ll answer again: nothing happens. I answered as directly and simply as possible.”:

                      Before we get to your questions I want to have this question settled.

                      So you are saying that nothing whatsoever will happen to a person who gets fined by a census? If he gets a fine and he rips it up and ignores it nothing will happen to him? Nothing? If nothing happened then why would people pay? If you tell a person “here I am giving you a fine but nothing will happen to you if you do not”, then what is the point of even giving him a fine. Does nothing really happen?

                    • John

                      For the third time yep nothing happens (fines will go up etc.. but nothing else)
                      Now your turn please about the red lights: should it be illegal? what about the violence it will lead to?
                      looking forward

                    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                      “For the third time yep nothing happens (fines will go up etc.. but nothing else)”:

                      I think you are absolutely wrong. I am not going to move on to your question because this one is not settled yet. I do not think it is just that simple as you say. Every case that I know of when a fine is imposed on the person if he fails to pay then he will be thrown into jail. I know this is true with speeding tickets in particular and with other kinds of fines too. So I seriously doubt that the census fine falls into a special category. Can you provide for me a link that shows that the census fine carries no threat of imprisonment? Besides what you say makes no sense. If a fine is imposed on a person, and he has the option not to pay, then why would he pay? It does not make sense what you say. Otherwise it is not called a “fine”. A fine, by definition, has to be paid. This is why I think that what you are saying is absolutely wrong. Can you point to the law regarding the census fine? I tried to find it but I was not able to. So the only conclusion I can come to is a deductive one here.

                    • John

                      You are a liar, and a coward. its cute how when backed into a corner you refuse to answer questions.
                      cute and pitiful

                    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                      “You are a liar”:

                      How am I a liar? What have I said that was a lie. Did I say that if you do not participate in the census violence would be used against you? No. I asked a question. I have no idea what happens. I think I know. And I am trying to explain why I think so. I keep on asking these questions because I have no idea what happens. But I doubt that nothing happens because there is a law and a fine imposed on those who disobey. I want to know the answer to this question. So I keep on asking. Why is this a lie?

                      “and a coward”:

                      Yes I am a coward. As are many people today. I wrote on my site about something called “generation of pussies”. The people of today’s day and age are quite cowardly. Myself include. But I think I am a bit more brave than normal people.

                      But here is my problem with you calling me a coward. First, how can you possibly deduce that I am a coward from what I type over a computer screen? It is impossible to make such a deduction. Thus, the only way you were correct in saying that I am a coward is simply that you guessed correctly. Which is irrelevant to this discussion because you cannot deduce it from what I have said. Second, what does my cowardly nature have to do with anything I said? You are attacking my charachter not my arguments. This would be an ad hominem attack. I am sure you are a coward too, as are most people, but I do not care, because whether you are a coward or not it does not affect your argument.

                      “when backed into a corner you refuse to answer questions.”:

                      I will answer any question you want. No matter what it is. No matter how personal it is. You can ask me how I am attracted to other men (yes, I am a bisexual), you can ask me how I like to masturbate, you can ask me if I am a lonely person, so on and so forth. I am not afraid of questions. Even the most personal ones. I will answer anything you want, except for privacy questions. Al fortitorti I will answer your red light traffic question. But I will not do so now. Because I want to get a question settled first. My main argument was that failure to participate in the census will ultimately lead to violence. Maybe I am wrong. I do not know. But I am asking questions on this site from people and they are not giving my satisfactory answers. They claim that nothing happens but when I look at the law this is not the case. So I have more questions to ask. That is what we need to settle first. Once we settle the violence issue regarding the census then we can move on to talk about anything you want. We just need to do things with priority.

                  • http://abandoningeden.blogspot.com abandoning eden

                    godwin’d!

                    • Anonymous

                      >At least with them we can agree on some non-religious based issues like this, where they dont have delusional paranoid views of the governemt.

                      I am afraid a delusional paranoid view of the government IS an American value. That is why founding fathers tried to limit its power.

                    • Jack Mehoff

                      One person hides behind an anonymous name of “John” and safely fires off insults without anyone knowing who that person is, which is about as cowardly as it gets.

                      Another person calls himself SkepticButJewish but courageously links that name to his actual blog.

                      Yet, it is the coward who calls the courageous one a “coward”. Unbelievable!

                    • Jack Mehoff

                      “I am afraid a delusional paranoid view of the government IS an American value. That is why founding fathers tried to limit its power.”

                      That’s the best comment so far! :)

                    • john

                      Jack, great point i should have used a less cowardly full name like you and your friend skepticbutjewish do here it is:
                      John Pickeltickel
                      seriously how dumb are you?
                      (ironicly John is my real first name)

                  • John

                    Skeptic you are a liar because you said youd answer the question, once Ive answered yours and i have several times. (Did you mean until i answer your question the way you want to hear it? ok the government electrocutes people who dont fill out the census, Though of course this would make Rabbs an idiot for not filling it out, but you are right it gets very violent. Happy?)
                    The question im asking youisnt irelevant it is directlylinked to this discussion, I assume you realzed that and since you know your answer would make you lose (again) you refuse to answer that is what makes you a coward, not some nonsense you wrote on your ridiculous blog. Of course if you dont see how they are directly connected, im sorry for calling you a coward, although that would make you a dimwit. Take your pick

                    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                      “Skeptic you are a liar because you said youd answer the question, once Ive answered yours and i have several times. “:

                      I said that once the question is settled we will move on to your question. We never settled this question. I said a will be imposed on someone who does not answer a census question. You do not disagree with that. But when I ask what will happen next if he does not pay fine you tell me nothing, absolutely nothing, will happen. Perhaps you are correct. I do not know. But I doubt it for the reasons I explained about. So I asked you can you link me to the law that will say that nothing whatsoever will happen? You are not doing that. You just proceed to call me a “liar” even though that is unjustified. This is a relevant question that needs to be answered. So we need to settle this question first. Once it is settled we will move on to your question but we need to do things in order.

                      “Did you mean until i answer your question the way you want to hear it?”:

                      What do you mean “the way you want it”? I asked what follows next to a person who fails to pay his census fine. This is not what I want or not. It is just a question asking how the law operates.

                      “The question im asking youisnt irelevant it is directlylinked to this discussion”:

                      I know it is not. But we still have to settle the census first.

                      “I assume you realzed that and since you know your answer would make you lose (again) you refuse to answer that is what makes you a coward”:

                      Or perhaps I do not answer because the priority question is not yet answered. Would you call a computer a coward for refusing to jump a step in the program because the preceeding step was incomplete?

                    • John

                      I told you i dont think anything m,ore thna an increase in fines. ok for argumenst sake lets say I believe the state would execute you (which again would make rabbs an even bigger idiot for not answering)
                      Now could you answer my question? If you are so afraid of losing an argument with me dont play, I am much much smarter than you.

                    • Jack Mehoff

                      John, you’re the dumb one. I didn’t call someone cowardly as YOU did. I merely stated that you are the pot calling the kettle black. If you had a shred of intelligence, then I wouldn’t have needed to explain that to you.

                    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                      “I told you i dont think anything m,ore thna an increase in fines.”:

                      You think?! You think nothing else happens than an increase in fine? Above you kept on telling me that nothing happens. You wrote it in a tone as you were sure of yourself. Then I asked you questions. And I explain why I think that nothing happening makes any sense. After I started asking these questions now you tell me that “you think”. I also asked for you to link to me or tell me where I can read up on this law because I do not know . You never did. I also asked questions about why I think you are wrong. You did not answer any single objection that I posed to you. I realized one more question that I should have asked. So I ask it now. What is the point of increasing fines if he still does not need to pay them? If he is not going to pay fines when they are at $100 then he is definitely not going to pay them when they are at $500. It does not make any sense. Can you answer my questions that I posed? But most importantly I am confused to why you kept on saying that nothing will happen in a tone as if you know exactly what the situation is but now you say it in a tone as if you are unsure yourself. So you do not know also. Thus, this question is not settled. This is an important question. And AE did not answer my question, no matter how many times I pressed her.

                      “ok for argumenst sake lets say I believe the state would execute you (which again would make rabbs an even bigger idiot for not answering)”:

                      This statement is absolutely surprising. I am amazed at how you say someone is an idiot because he stands up towards authority. You seem to be a relgious Jew. You know how many religious Jews were murdered for their beliefs? Jewish people were prepared to stand up to authority because of what they believe. This is not idiotic. This is a person caring for his important principles. There is nothing idiotic in that. My favorite founding father, my hero, the great Enlightenment philosopher, Thomas Paine, was almost executed because he objected to the execution of Louis XVI even though he was part of the French Revolution. Is that idiotic? Because he has principles which he thinks need to be defended.

                      Might does not make right. Assuming that he will get executed, I am playing along with you here, that does not mean he has to bow before the authority of the state. Because in such a case the state is evil. Thus, when he stands up to authority he is standing up to evil. Why would you ever support the state in this instance and oppose the innocent man who is minding his own business? You make no sense.

                      “Now could you answer my question?”:

                      No. We need to settle my question first. Now that you implied that you are unsure of what happens we need to investigate this question in more detail before I get to any question you have.

                      “I am much much smarter than you.”:

                      Irrelevant. I can be a cowardly lying retard but I have my points. Even if I am retarded I can still be correct in what we are discussing. My intelligence and your intelligence is irrelevant to this discussion. Though if I had to guess I would guess that you are a person with average intelligence. There is nothing in you that I see that I can say is profound. The fact that you made the shocking statement of calling this man an idiot if he stood to authority for the price of being executed hints to me that you are not more intelligent than an average person. However, this is again irrelevant to our discussion. We need to return back to my question: what happens if he refuses to pay the census fines?

                    • John

                      I never told you i know what happens. I even am willing to conceded your view for arguments sake (not in real life obviously im not retarted)
                      You still cant answer my question

                    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                      “You still cant answer my question”:

                      Who is the one not answering questions? I asked you many questions about the census fine. Not a single one of which you answered. I asked what happens if he does not pay the census fine. You made up an answer to what happens. Then I asked you follow up questions that were objections to what you said. Not a single one you answered or attempted to answer.

                      Now let us return back to what we were talking about regarding the census fine. I will tell you what I think happens if he does not pay the census fine. I think he will be thrown into an iron cage (jail). If he gets a census fine and he ignores it then he will get a few warnings. If he still ignores them the police will come over and arrest him. Arresting and imprisonment is not violent?

                      Let us review how our conversation started. I asked that violence would be used ultimately against individuals unwilling to participate in census. I was called “idiotic” by some people here for saying that. I then asked questions about those who fail to participate. And now we have established that what probably will happen is that he will be thrown into an iron cage for failure to participate. Thus, what I wrote above how violence is the ultimate outcome of those who fail to participate is correct. The idiot turned out being correct after all. This is what I wanted to get to. Do you agree that violence is the ultimate result now?

                      You are not even making an effort to respond to me. I make objections to you, I raise questions to refute you, especially in my previous post, you ignore every single one of them.

                  • John

                    I answered all of your questions. you have yet to answer the one question i posed to you.Is that your tactic too keep repeat yourself over and over with utter nonsense. It didnt work last time and its not going to work this time.
                    I answered your question many many times. It is your turn to answer my question If youd like this nonsense to continue.
                    should running red lights be illegal, and does it warrant a violent reponse?

                    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                      “I answered all of your questions.”:

                      Where? You only answered part of them. I asked you a series of questions on what you said. You did not answer them. They need to be answered. In particular, I would like you to at least acknowledge the posibility of imprisoning those individuals who refuse to pay their census fine. Thus, it follows easily now, that violence ultimately shall be used against those who refuse to participate in the census. Is this correct? If you do not want to answer my series questions you need to answer this question. Because this is the fundamental question I was striving towards. Was I correct to say that violence will be ultimately used against those individuals who refuse to participate in the census? If you say “yes” then we can move on to whatever you want. If you say “no” you would have to explain why I am wrong and we would have to continue this discussion.

                    • John

                      im not sure why you make the rules ive answered this quetion over and over. no, the fines are not enforced they are there to motivate.
                      For argumenat sake ive even accepted electrocution as a result of not filling out the census, way more violent than mere imprisonment. You till cant anwer my quetion.
                      I win yet again. If you dont plan to ansewr my question, dont bother repeating you never told me what happens I have many many times.

                    • Jack Mehoff

                      “the fines are not enforced they are there to motivate”

                      Pardon my ignorance, but I am lost on how unenforced fines motivate anyone to do anything.

                      Government: “You better do what we say or we’ll fine you!”

                      Citizen: “No you won’t”

                      Government: “You’re right, we won’t. But please do what we say anyway. Pretty please. With sugar on top”

                      Citizen: “Do you think I’m going to now cooperate with you after you lied to me and threatened me with a fine? Get the f*k off my property!”

                    • John

                      no need to apolagise for being ignorant, it isnt your fault. i’d be happy to explain. Most people when threatened with a fine if they dont do something wont test it to see if the fine is carried through they will try to avoid the fine completly. If a fine goes up, people will pay it to avoid having it go up more.
                      Have you ever heard of anyone being imprisoned for not filling out the census?
                      In 2000 72% of the country filled out their forms. I guess that means 28% were imprisoned.
                      Heres an idea, maybe Rabbs the brave patriot who is willing to test the govt can serve as an experiment. Wanna bet if he’ll be imprisoned? (ironicaly im hoping he will be, even though that mean id lose the bet)

                    • Jack Mehoff

                      “Most people when threatened with a fine if they dont do something wont test it to see if the fine is carried through they will try to avoid the fine completly.”

                      I didn’t know we still live in the 1950s. Nowadays, there’s a thingy called the internet, and people go online and read that John says the fine won’t be enforced, and hence won’t believe the government’s threat. So, there goes your theory. Sorry, bud.

                      As for rabbs, he wrote “They left a voice mail message on my phone on Shabbos afternoon saying that they would no longer bother me”, so why would I take that bet?

                      Looks like the threat of a fine didn’t work on rabbs, so again, your whole point that a threat of fine motivates people was lost on rabbs and I’m sure there are many people who are similar to him.

                      Maybe the same people that are scared of fines that won’t happen are the same conditioned sheep that would bend over to anything coming at them from the government.

                    • John

                      my dear silly jack I am so happy we finaly agree. allow me to quote you “As for rabbs, he wrote “They left a voice mail message on my phone on Shabbos afternoon saying that they would no longer bother me”, so why would I take that bet?” in other words as ive been telling skeptic nothing happens, nothing yes nothing. you seem to accept this now please explain that fact that you have accepted to your friend skeptic.
                      Skeptic, you are all alone now, i have even turned your one supporter to my side.

                    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                      You did not answer why fines go up. Why would someone pay if he is afraid that fines would go up but knows that nothing absolutely will not happen to him? It makes no sense. This is the question I been asking you and someone else been asking you but you have no been able to answer.

                      Now you said let us for argument sake say that the citizen who refuses to participate gets executed. If you say so then I was correct after all. My main argument was that violence will be used against the citizen.

                      Answer this question straight. Why would someone pay fines if nothing happens at all? Do not dodge and ignore questions. Answer it straight. You are not been answering my follow up questions. Answer this question and we will be able to move on. But all the time I been asking you you have not been answering. Unless you agree that he will be imprisoned if he does not pay. If you agree with that then we can move on.

                    • Jack Mehoff

                      John:

                      You wrote: “in other words as ive been telling skeptic nothing happens, nothing yes nothing. you seem to accept this now please explain that fact that you have accepted to your friend skeptic.
                      Skeptic, you are all alone now, i have even turned your one supporter to my side.”

                      Sorry, but nothing I wrote contradicts what SkepticButJewish wrote. Here is what Skeptic wrote:

                      “Your answer makes no sense because each case I can think of when a fine is imposed it really is imposed, it needs to be paid. If a fine is not imposed then why would someone pay it in the first place? Can you also point to the law regarding people who ignore census fines. ”

                      Skeptic is saying that your answer of nothing happens if the fine isn’t paid makes no sense, and I happen to agree with skeptic that threatening with a fine that doesn’t happen makes no sense.

                      You claim even a threat of a fine motivates people to comply, but I showed how many people will not fall for such a silly motivator. If it is true that the government admittedly doesn’t enforce the fine, then Skeptic is correct that there is no fine because all fines require payment, and since failure to comply with the Census Bureau doesn’t require payment, therefore, there is no fine for failure to submit a census survey whether a so-called fine is mentioned on the form or not. Because a non-enforced law is worthless.

                    • John

                      jack dont feel bad you are on the winning side. skeptic lost another argument and while i answer all his questions he cant answer only one of mine, and just repeats himself over and over.
                      you do not agree with skeptic he says ” Unless you agree that he will be imprisoned if he does not pay. If you agree with that then we can move on.” something that you correctly realze is utter nonsense. According to him in 2000 when 72% of the country filled out the census, jails were flooded with 28% of the US population. According to him Rabbs is on his way to jail unless he fills out that census quick or pays a fine, i suppose hed take that bet that I posed to you and you didint take saying intelligently for once, “As for rabbs, he wrote “They left a voice mail message on my phone on Shabbos afternoon saying that they would no longer bother me”, so why would I take that bet?” we are right absolutly nothing happens if you dont fill out the census, again dont feel bad you are on the winning side of this argument (with my help)
                      Skeptic, if you arent willing to have a discussion like a normal person (you cant claim i didnt try, i told you my opinion over and over and i even tried giving in just to hear your answer to my question,) but i dont care anymore about that. You lose again.
                      Though im curious if youd like to take the bet i posed to jack which he intelligently avoided, namely would you bet that if Rabbs doesnt fill out his census he will not end up in jail?

                    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                      “skeptic lost another argument and while i answer all his questions he cant answer only one of mine, and just repeats himself over and over.”:

                      What answers? Look at the questions I asked you, look at the answers you gave me. Then compare if you even made an attempt to answer my questions. I asked relevent questions to what you said. But where did you actually answer?

                      If you agree that something more (such as jail) will happen to a non-participating individual then we can move on to your question. If you do not agree then we need to discuss this issue more. I am prepared to answer anything you want but we need to do things in order. But I will not answer your questions before these ones are settled because that would take us off topic.

                    • John

                      the answers ive given you are: nothing happens, or execution. take your pick ive answered your question as to what happens you havent answered mine. you want to move on as to why the govt would ahve a fine (i ahve mentioned why but that is beside the point, i am not deffending the govt laws maybe they are insane for having laws they dont enforce that is beside the point)
                      my question is as relevant as yours as you are fully aware, which we both know is why you wont answer it. you are afraid of losing again.
                      Rabbs isnt going to jail, 28% of the country wasnt imrisoned in 2000. since it is becoming clear that you arent man enough to answer your question, forget it but would you tkae my bet as to Rabbs going to jail (your friend jack realized how nutty you are and joined my side, he wouldnt take my bet)

                    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com

                      “the answers ive given you are: nothing happens, or execution. take your pick ive answered your question as to what happens you havent answered mine.”:

                      Your answer does not make any sense. For the reasons already explained above. You can admit that saying “fines are enforced by nothing will happen at all, they just be increased more” makes no sense. Especially when you cannot point to the actual law.

                      “Rabbs isnt going to jail, 28% of the country wasnt imrisoned in 2000. “:

                      I wonder how you can know it is 28% of the people who did not participate in census if you need a census in the first place to figure out such a number. That is why I hate statistics. But anyway, that is unimportant, let us assume this number is correct. Even if that argument is correct it does not show why nothing is enforced. Do you know that not paying taxes is illegal punishable by going to jail? There are people who cheat or not pay taxes (which I often support as an act of civil disobedience but that is beside the point). Do all of them go to jail? No. But some have. They have no went against all of them but they went after some of them. Likewise with marijuana. Marijuana is illegal, a lot of people take it, it does not mean that all are in jail. It just means that some of them are in jail. Saying that not all 28% are in jail does not show why the crime is non-enforceable. Your argument is a bad argument.

                    • John

                      you cant point to a law that says if you dont pay the fines your going to jail, so im not sure what you want from me. ive answered you over and over.
                      Anyway since you obviously dont want to have a normal conversation (i dont blame you, its not fun losing though i wouldnt know) ive moved on.
                      Would you take the bet on Rabss’ imprisonment?

                    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                      “you cant point to a law that says if you dont pay the fines your going to jail, so im not sure what you want from me.”:

                      You are confusing whose responsibility here is to justify the claim. Is it my responsibility to show why there is a fine imposed on dissent. Or is it your responsibility to show why there is not fine imposed on dissent. In this case it is yours. Because in every case I can think of when there is a fine on something it means the fine must be paid back. And if you are honest and I was to ask you a question in general “are failure to pay fines punishable by imprisonment” you would say “yes”. Because you too, in general, know that imposed fines are punishable by slavery. Thus, if one specific case comes up, like this one, and we are not sure what is the law, it is your responsibility to argue for your position. Besides I did argue for my position, I explained why I think imprisonment must happen. However, you did not defend your own position. You simply said “fines will go up”, a response you probably pulled out of your anus, so when I pressed you to justify why that would happen you were unable to explain why.

                      So we return back to where we started. If he gets thrown into jail then it is correct to say that violence gets used against him? Right?

                    • John

                      “So we return back to where we started. If he gets thrown into jail then it is correct to say that violence gets used against him? Right?”
                      no and no, imprisonment is not violence, and we have not gotten there as nobody who has not filled out a census has been improsoned ever. As too why they have fines (a ide converation which isnt that relevant since im not sure why it is my “responsibility” to defend a posibly stupid law) you are right i pulled that response out of my anus, where i guess there is infinetly more intelligence than anywhere in your body.
                      At any rate since you obviously arent interested in an honset conversation, Would you put your money where your mouth is? since you believe Rabbs is haeded for jail how about if he i imprisoned you change the tag line on your blog from “the graetest human that exists” to the more honest “dumbest thing that exists”

                    • SkepticButJewish

                      “imprisonment is not violence”:

                      How is it not violence? Taking a person and forcefully throwing him into a cage is not violent? Having men in blue carry him away into a cage is not violent?

                      “and we have not gotten there as nobody who has not filled out a census has been improsoned ever.”:

                      I been able to find out that there was a law in 1976 that send people into jail for not answering census questions. This was eventually overturned. However, in the current law it says, “with the intent or purpose of causing an inaccurate enumeration of population to be made, shall be fined not more than $1,000 or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.”. There is imprisonment for lying. But I am still not sure what happens if you do not pay fines, I cannot find an answer to this question. However, there is violence involved, or it can lead to it, and in the past it was part of the law directly. You are the one making stuff up.

                      “At any rate since you obviously arent interested in an honset conversation”:

                      If you mark all the sentences I say and connect them to the topic we are discussing you will realize that I am way more on topic than you are. You write several paragraphs. One of which is a semi-weak response. All others are just ad hominmens. You are unimpressive in how you argue.

                    • John

                      “You are unimpressive in how you argue.”
                      I agree though at leat ive attempted to argue. You on the otherhand repeat yourslef over and over like without anwering my question.
                      and you have not given an example of anyone being imprisoned, and no impronment isnt violence although again we are far from there, and based on your track record of avoiding questions you realize you cant answer (dont pretend it is a different topic, a you are fully aware it is the same), i dont expect to get to that point.
                      Anyway, moving on…. youve never addresed the bet: would you accept it? If not, Why not?

                      (As an aside just to recap so you can appreciate who is truly of topic (you seem to have lost track) lets run through the conversation again: AE correctly called Rabbs an idiot for being paranoid and crazy. I jumped in aying I agree. You said oh so you support violence. I said no what are you talking about.
                      You said well what happens if one doesnt answer. I said nothng then when Nuran said there was a fine i accepted that, and asked youhow you felt about red lights. you said well what hppens if you dont pay the fine? I said nothing, and please answer my question. This went on for a while.
                      since thenI have repeated myself over and over that nothing happens.
                      I “agreed” that somenting very violent happens (execution).
                      You have not demonstrated that anybody ever got imprisoned or otherwie met a violent end for not filling out the census, although aproximatly 28% of the country didnt fill out the last one.
                      And of course you till havent answered my oquestion.

                    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                      “Anyway, moving on…. youve never addresed the bet: would you accept it? If not, Why not?”:

                      I would definitely accept such a bet. I am sure that if he is completely silent about the census, if he does not say any infromation, he will be reported. Then he will be fined after several failed attempts until some officers knock on his door.

                      “You said oh so you support violence. “:

                      Go ahead and show me where I say that. You pulled that out of your anus again. If you read carefully I did not make a statement, I asked a question. I asked if you support the use of violence. I asked a question because I assumed the answer would be “no”, once I seen the answer I will develop my point into a more meaningful point. Answering a question is a tactic that I had. Saying that I made the statement that others support the use of violence against him is entirely false because I never said that.

                      “I said nothing, and please answer my question. This went on for a while.
                      since thenI have repeated myself over and over that nothing happens.”:

                      But your answer makes no sense. That was the entire problem. As I said many times before I have no idea what happens, but I doubt that nothing happens about it. It may certainly be possible that the authority have better things to do than to arrest non-participating people but they may, if they so desired, arrest someone because they would legally be allowed to make such an arrest. That is the entire question. Not how frequently it happens but the possibility that it can happen. Furthermore, I pointed to you to an actual law that did say imprisonment for non-participating people, however this law was overturned. Now I asked a different question. I asked what happens if he fails to pay the fine. This is the fundamental question that needs to be settled.

                      “although aproximatly 28% of the country didnt fill out the last one.”:

                      I already refuted your weak argument. The fact that not everyone gets imprisioned does not imply that imprisonment is not a punishment. I gave you my example with marijuana. Most people who take marijuana are never imprisioned and nothing happens. But, legally, one can get imprisioned, as well it has happened. So what you say is entirely irrelevent.

                      “And of course you till havent answered my oquestion.”:

                      Because you have not answered mine. I will answer anything you wish (as long as it does not violate privacy) when we settle what I ask you. My entire point of my fine question is to show that legally the authority can have a warrant for an arrest. If so, then I have been correct that violence will be the ultimate outcome of non-participating individuals. That is why I keep on sticking to this question.

                    • John

                      Liar, here is where you said it: “So you agree with her that the state can use violence against people who refuse to answer the questions? ” In your first comment to me. AE never said there is violence, you said that in her name.
                      Of course not all 28% would be imprisoned butif your absurdity is correct, isnt it odd that you cant find even one example of a person being imprisoned for this widespread “crime”.
                      Dont pretend you keep sticking to your question becasue i havent answered it i have many times. we both know you arent answering mine because you know youll get stuck pretty soon. (as if repeating over and over “but you havent answered my question” isnt getting stuck.)
                      Nothing happens
                      what?
                      Nothing
                      What?
                      nothing!!
                      Nothing!!!!
                      seriously dude what is wrong with you, just admit youve been beaten again
                      But what happens?
                      nothing!
                      I cant even count how many times ive answered this question, and lets not forget i even “conceded” that point just to hear your answer
                      I think you need to recheck the definiton of intellectual dishonesty (not your phony one that i proved was stupid, but the real one)

                    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                      “Liar, here is where you said it: “So you agree with her that the state can use violence against people who refuse to answer the questions? ” In your first comment to me. AE never said there is violence, you said that in her name.”:

                      How does that show that I implied that she supports the use of violence? I asked a question. Notice that what I wrote was in a form of a question. I did not make a statement, but asked a question. That is exactly what I told you above.

                      “Of course not all 28% would be imprisoned butif your absurdity is correct, isnt it odd that you cant find even one example of a person being imprisoned for this widespread “crime”.”:

                      Yes there is a case of at least one person who was imprisioned for refusing to answer the census questions. It has happened. Would you consider that person to also be an idiot to standing up to authority? Or do you concede that such a person was brave and was innocent?

                      “I cant even count how many times ive answered this question”:

                      No. you never answered my follow up questions. You only answered when I asked “what happens?”. You answered “nothing”. Then I ask a long list of objections to such a question. Not one of which you answered. In fact, you admited that you pulled those answers from your anus with no support for them. What I want to see are answers to my follow up questions. You cannot tell me you answered my following questions if you only answered my initial questions.

                      Answer my follow up questions. That is what I want to see answered. If you have no idea then admit you have no idea instead of making up answers which do not make sense upon further introspection.

                      And I will get to your questions when we finish with mine. We need to do things in order.

                    • John

                      “How does that show that I implied that she supports the use of violence? I asked a question. Notice that what I wrote was in a form of a question. I did not make a statement, but asked a question.”
                      no it was a stament you asked me if i agree with AE who supports violence (exact wording: “So you agree with her that the state can use violence against people who refuse to answer the questions?”, Ae doesnt support violence you made her opinion up and asked me if i agree with it.

                      “Yes there is a case of at least one person who was imprisioned for refusing to answer the census questions. It has happened.”
                      Who?
                      ” Would you consider that person to also be an idiot to standing up to authority? Or do you concede that such a person was brave and was innocent?”
                      An idiot for depriving his community of funds that could benefit them all. He was deffinitly not innocent as he broke the law, luckily though no violence was used against him. Oh and he’s fictitious.

                      “No. you never answered my follow up questions. You only answered when I asked “what happens?”. You answered “nothing”. Then I ask a long list of objections to such a question. Not one of which you answered.”
                      I answered all of them.
                      .
                      “Answer my follow up questions. That is what I want to see answered. If you have no idea then admit you have no idea instead of making up answers which do not make sense upon further introspection.”
                      I did that too, although my answers made sense.

                      “And I will get to your questions when we finish with mine. We need to do things in order.”
                      I asked you my question before you asked yours, so please dont lecture about doing things in order.
                      Although i dont care about your answer to my question anymore, it is clear that you dont have one. Its ok, i never expected you too, it was a great question that put you in a pickle I fully understand your nedd to run from it although I did lose any shred of respect that may have existed for you through your cowardly running away.

            • Jack Mehoff

              Rabbs wrote that he received a form asking for how much he pays in housing and utilities. I would say that’s very private info!

              • http://abandoningeden.blogspot.com abandoning eden

                ok, well it seems there is some confusion here over what is actually the “CENSUS”. The census bureau collects several surveys. One of the things they collect is the official census, that they collect every 10 years. In 2000 a selection of people (1/5th of houses) got a “long form” which was a survey that asked a lot of information. People got upset about giving away all this information, so they have now changed the system. In 2010 everyone gets a “short form” and no one gets a “long form” for the actual US census.

                Apart from that, the census now takes a yearly random survey of 1/100 houses, which is the former “long form” which is now called the “American community survey”. Participation in this survey is completely optional and is not part of the official US census, although they do try to get a high response rate so that their information has more validity. The author of this paper obviously got picked in 2008 to be part of the “long form” survey. This survey is no different than if you were picked to be part of a random marketing survey or a random government survey, it just happens to be run by the Census bureau. That information is then used by people like me (demographers/sociologists) who use these large surveys to find out patterns about how people act in the US.

                If you are paranoid about what information gets collected and distributed you can just check it out online- the website us researchers all use is this one: http://usa.ipums.org/usa-action/variableGroups.do this is all the info they distribute publicly. Note that it is completely impossible to identify an individual person in these datasets, and that the census takes many steps to make it even more impossible.

                You an also note on that page that census questions regarding race and age go back to at least 1850, which is the earliest census you can access online. I believe the particular questions they now ask on the short form go back as early as 1790.

              • John

                Jack, It doesnt get “a pot calling a kettle black” any more than an anymous commenter calling another annonymous commenter a coward. we are all anonymous here, that doesnt make me a coward. What DOES make someone a coward, is refusing to answer a question that he knows will cause him to lose.

                • Jack Mehoff

                  Rabbi Rabbs showed true courage. He posted his essay and didn’t hide his identity. You on the other hand called him a retard while hiding behind your anonymity. If you don’t want to be called a coward, then stop acting like one! Let’s see you show your true identity before you call people names.

                  As for pot and kettle, yeah, you should be the last person here calling anyone here a coward.

                  • John

                    Are yoy high? I never called Rabbs a coward. I called skeptic a coward for running away and not anwering my question when he realized he lost. (incidently although ive answered his yet again as have AE and A Nuran, he till didnt answer mine, seriously what is his deal?)
                    Then you called me a coward for hiding behind a fake name, while you hid behind a fake name

                    • Jack Mehoff

                      Complex thought isn’t easy for you, so let’s try this again:

                      I never stated that you called Rabbs a coward. Rather, I stated that you called Rabbs a retard. Go back and read that.

                      Rabbs revealed his identity and showed courage. You on the other hand called him a retard from safely behind your anonymity, showing your true cowardice.

                      Who cares if I hide behind a fake name? I’m not the one calling Rabbs names. Meanwhile, you’re the one calling Skeptic a coward when you already showed tremendous cowardice.

                      Pot meet kettle.

                    • John

                      I called rabbs a retard becaue he is one.
                      I called skeptic a coward becaue he is one.
                      hidng behind a pseudonim doesnt make me a coward, it is something all of us are doing, .
                      speaking of pots and kettles we are in the same boat. both of us are calling name while hiding behind anonimity. Except that my name calling makes sense, yours are as delusional a your Nazi comparions and census asking dirty question comparison.

                    • SkepticButJewish

                      “I called skeptic a coward for running away and not anwering my question when he realized he lost.”:

                      You have not answered my questions. I have asked you a series of questions regarding census fine and how it makes sense to say that nothing happens to those who refuse to participate. Did you even make an attempt to answer any one of those questions? No. You responded back to me by saying that I was a coward. This is a logical fallacy known as an adhominem attack. Because you have substituted actual arguments against my position for attacks on my personality. Even if I am a coward that is all irrelevant to the discussion. Look at yourself. Look at how far you have moved away from the actual topic that we have been discussing of census fines to something entirely unrelated.

                    • John

                      Liar, I AE and A. nuran have all told you nothing happens. You still didnt anwer my question. For arguments ake I even gave in and said hed get electrocuted, and yet you still refue to answer.
                      To save us some time i’ll jot down our next few exchanges
                      Skepticbutjewish: You havent told me what happens?
                      John: I have many times, nothing
                      Skepticbutjewish: You havent told me what happens?
                      John: Seriously what is wrong with you. nothing happens, nothing. AE even expalined that it isnt worth it for the government to chase all those who refuse to answer. The fine is there to encourage people to fill it out. Nothing happens.
                      Skepticbutjewish: You havent told me what happens?
                      John: I have
                      Skepticbutjewish: You havent told me what happens?
                      John: forget it i dont expect an answer from you. i guese ive beaten you again
                      Skepticbutjewish: You havent told me what happens?
                      Skepticbutjewish: You havent told me what happens?
                      Skepticbutjewish: You havent told me what happens?

                    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                      “Liar, I AE and A. nuran have all told you nothing happens. “:

                      You are again off topic. You make responses to me that are anything but related to what we were discussing. We need to return back to what we were talking about.

                      You said nothing happens, AE said nothing happens, Nuran said nothing happens. But when I asked follow up question about that not a single one of you responded. You just stood quiet. I asked you questions in addition to when you said nothing happens. So this question is not answered. That is why I am still sticking with it.

                      I did play along with your answer about what happens if he gets exectuted. Just read what I wrote above in response to you. I made sure to play along with such a response. And I answered you. Furthermore, I asked you a question to why it makes this individual an idiot if he decides to stand up to evil in the example you came up with. I was again on topic to what you asked but you did not answer my question that I brought up. You are instead dodging my questions by attacking my personality, which is again irrelevant.

            • pp

              Uhhhm, Abandoning Eden, I understand you are serious and your obnoxious spouse is one of the enemy and all but I think the whole waterboarding thing was a joke… Please don’t yell at me too.

      • http://abandoningeden.blogspot.com abandoning eden

        Where in the Constitution does it say you have a right to privacy? You have a right not to be searched, that’s not the same as a right to “privacy” or a right to not give the government basic information about you.

        The courts have ruled on numerous occasions that the census has a right to collect this information and that citizens are required to give it, that’s why it says on the census forms that it’s federally mandated that you share this information. You seem to be grossly misinformed on both the constitution and federal law.

        • Jack Mehoff

          John:

          “I called rabbs a retard becaue he is one.
          I called skeptic a coward becaue he is one.
          hidng behind a pseudonim doesnt make me a coward, it is something all of us are doing, .
          speaking of pots and kettles we are in the same boat. both of us are calling name while hiding behind anonimity. Except that my name calling makes sense, yours are as delusional a your Nazi comparions and census asking dirty question comparison.”

          I don’t know about Rabbs, but the fact that you consider Nazi comparisons and dirty question comparisons delusional proves that you might be the kettle calling the pot a retard.

          • John

            obviously i disagree with you, but at least your idiom finaly made sense. congratulations! Maybe it’ll spread to the rest of your comments

  • A23

    After seeing this “Rabbi” in his recent video and reading this article, I have concluded that he is the stupidest person to have guest-posted on this blog.
    Heshy, please post his semicha letter/certificate before you call him a rabbi again. Please post some sort of psychological clearance before you post his material again; I fear that we’re all just abusing a disabled person by laughing at his ‘work.’

    • http://www.frumsatire.net Heshy Fried

      Wow I feel so honored that you think I am sane and don’t need a letter of psychological proof. I know you have noticed this but, whether I agree with the post is not my grounds for posting it. I myself write things I don’t agree with and allow others to post contrarian views as well.

  • Simchah

    I applaud Rabbi Rabbs for reminding the government that it has no business invading the privacy of US citizens.

  • Alan

    Doesn’t anyone check FactCheck and Snopes anymore?

    http://www.factcheck.org/2010/03/census-nonsense/

    Seriously. Abandoning Eden is completely right. The Census in its current form has survived legal challenge after constitutional legal challenge for over a hundred years. These shmos are chillul hashems… not because they’re ridiculous but because they make us Yidden look like MORONS.

    • Esther

      Amein.

      • Hugh Dyck

        Mazal to Alan, AE and Esther on being sheep led to slaughter.

  • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

    “I recently had the misfortune of dealing with a dangerous arm of the federal government that has reached far beyond its authority, ripped up the Constitution, and violated individual rights of Americans.”

    No really?!

    You do realize the harassment of individuals and the violence done to people in the US and other parts of the world is done on a day to day basis. The US does not care about the Constitution. And it does not care about violating individual rights of people. Individual rights are violated every day. But people only speak out against this issue if they were the ones violated. They do not speak out against other people, including our enemies, who get violated every day. I am not surprised that they violated your individual rights. It happens all the time.

    The US and all the states that have existed have been evil, I hope to see them fall soon. I will celebrate their death.

  • Jake

    Heshy, this type of article should be reported to the http://consumerist.com/

  • Confused

    Usually I like to think i’m good at recognizing satire. Admitedly this wasnt that funny, but then again we’ve met Rabbs before in that stupid car video so that is no surprise. Still though being that this is frum satire i suppose it was meant as satire as stupid as it was
    Of course if it was meant seriously it would be even dumber.

  • http://simong112.blogspot.com Simong

    Well done! I admire people who allocate time for due dilligance. Most people will sign anything without reading fine prints.

  • Natanoia

    I believe the government is using census data, as well as Twitter, Facebook, and Linkedin to collect information on us so that they may then use that data to turn us into an Orwellian society. I for one say we rebel, cancel our Facebook, Twitter, and LinkedIn, burn our social security cards, and riot in the streets. We should also all wear black, and walk around with sunglasses at night so they wont be able to scan our retinas and steal our souls and our childrens souls. The government is coming people. Be afraid, be very afraid!!!

    • Tyler durden

      Yes!! All together now: His name is robert paulson! His name is robert paulson! His name is robert paulson!

    • A. Nuran

      And I believe in the Invisible Pink Unicorn.

      The government collects all sorts of information. The census is the least of it. Census data are very carefully anonymized. I know. I’ve worked with the data sets. It doesn’t go into your secret personal file.

      In fact the INS and the State of Texas have tried to get the raw forms to find illegal aliens. The Census Bureau told them to take a hike. Think about that a moment. They told a State and another branch of the Federal government they had no legitimate reason to access personally identifying information.

      • Jack Mehoff

        blah, blah, blah, blah, blah….

        “Despite decades of denials, government records confirm that the U.S. Census Bureau provided the U.S. Secret Service with names and addresses of Japanese-Americans during World War II. “

  • A from AL

    It irritates me that people like the poster of this rant have the potential to cancel out my vote. Stop whining about such little things and focus on the real problems in society. It will make your life so much easier, and you’ll stop wasting the government’s time and money.

    • Simchah

      The Census Bureau sending people to harass you in the street is a little thing? Rabbs’ problem here is not with the fact there’s a census. It is that when he filled it out as the Constitution says he should, the gov’t did not respect his right to privacy and sent goons to hassle him.

      • A from AL

        Yeah, it is a little thing. Being asked how many people are in your house, how old you are, what racial group you identify with, your gender, and your phone number by the government is hardly an invasion of privacy. The Constitution doesn’t talk about a lot of things that the government does to further the fulfillment of the Constitution itself. You know that whole Necessary and Proper Clause that you learn about in high school civics class. Or did the people complaining about this fail that the first time around? Honestly, I feel more sorry for Rabbs that he gets himself worked up about answering these questions than I do that he’s civically retarded.

        • Simchah

          You;re missing the point. Rabbs is not mad that the questions were asked. He is mad that he did what the Constitution requires of him, but the Census Bureau hounded him for more. That right there is the invasion of privacy. Being asked how old you are is not a big deal. The gov’t sending somebody to creep you out on the street because you refuse to answer is.

          • http://abandoningeden.blogspot.com abandoning eden

            please, they’re not sending people to creep you out on the street, the author said he was leaving his house, the census taker probably just happened to be walking up to the house at that same time he was leaving. It’s called “coincidence.” Believe me, they have better things to do then stalk people, and they only get paid for half an hour maximum per house visit, so they can’t just sit outside people’s houses all day.

            These are just government workers, doing their job, they are mostly old retirees and stay at home moms and college students trying to earn some extra cash, they don’t give a crap about individual people and stalking them, all they want to do is visit and try to get info from their daily quota of people so that they can get paid. All this interpretation of malicious intent is just paranoia.

            • Simchah

              Rabbs wrote: Even though I had never seen that individual before, he apparently recognized my face, knew exactly where I lived, and was familiar with my name despite the fact that nowhere on my survey that I submitted did it reveal my name, as the form was merely addressed to me as “Resident”.

              How did this guy know just who he was talking to? Did he introduce himself to everybody leaving Rabb’s building? It’s creepy. And then the guy said that Census takers would continue to pester Rabbs for info they are simply not entitled to. Rabbs was entirely within his rights here and the fact that you seem to think he was in the wrong is absurd.

              • http://abanadoningeden.blogspot.com abandoning eden

                “as soon as I emerged from my home for the first time that day (it was late in the afternoon already), I bumped head on into a survey taker”

                so it seems he was JUST leaving the house. And who says this guy lives in an apartment building- if he lives in a single family home it would certainly make sense to talk to the person leaving the house.

                and where does it says the census it not entitled to this information? According to the very law quoted by the OP: “whoever, being over eighteen years of age, refuses or willfully neglects, when requested by the Secretary, or by any other authorized officer or employee of the Department of Commerce or bureau or agency thereof acting under the instructions of the Secretary or authorized officer, to answer, to the best of his knowledge, any of the questions on any schedule submitted to him in connection with any census or survey provided for by subchapters I, II, IV, and V of chapter 5 of this title, applying to himself or to the family to which he belongs or is related, or to the farm or farms of which he or his family is the occupant, shall be fined not more than $100.”

                the OP misinterpreted this passage- it is not the specific census questions that need to be provided for, but other surveys.

                • Simchah

                  Rabbs has told me that he lives in an apartment building. So yes, it was weird.

            • Jack Mehoff

              Abandoning Eden:

              How’s the Kool Aid?

              The Internet is packed with accounts of how census thugs stood outside people’s doors for hours. But you still believe that the survey takers never stay for more than 30 minutes. I suppose all of the accounts that report otherwise is a mere “coincidence”.

              • John

                There are even more accounts of ufo abductions. isnt the internet the best?

                • Jack Mehoff

                  and there are even more wild accounts such as census workers being frequently assaulted.

                  • John

                    Exactly my point. Dont believe things you resd on the internet (do you really find accounts of census takers getting beaten up tp be more wild than ufo abductions?)

      • http://abandoningeden.blogspot.com abandoning eden

        yeah, there is no consitutional right to privacy, there is a right to privacy in some things, such as privacy of your possessions (no search and seizure) privacy of the home (No quartering of soldiers), privacy of beliefs (first amendment- which is why the census never asks about religious beliefs) but there is no constitutionally protected right to privacy from the government knowing your name, birthday, race, and age.

        • Jack Mehoff

          Abandoning Eden would have advised everyone with Japanese heritage to trust the Census Bureau, and of course that caused them to be sent to the camps.

          Abandoning Eden would have advised all of the Jews in 1930s Germany to surrender their weapons, and scolded those Jews that would dare “obstruct” the Nazi laws, and we know how well that advice worked out for us.

          Abandoning Eden would have bitched about Jews warning each other not to board trains headed to the camps. In Abandoning Eden’s world, no one ever died boarding a train, so only a paranoid dimwit with insane paranoia would have a problem with boarding one.

          The founding fathers of this country limited the power of the census for a reason. They knew the danger of an intrusive government whether naive idiots such as Abandoning Eden recognize it or not.

          • http://abandoningeden.blogspot.com abandoning eden

            Double godwin’d

            • Jack Mehoff

              in other words AE has no intelligent response

              • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                I agree that AE has no intelligent responses to many issues already raised here. I keep on pressing her on some questions I asked. I know she saw my comments. But she does not respond.

                • http://abandoningeden.blogspot.com abandoning eden

                  you keep repeating the same question over and over again and I keep telling you the answer: the census bureau does not enforce the fine. And you keep hysterically talking about what happens if you don’t pay the fine that they don’t enforce? And the answer is still nothing.

                  As for the rest, it doesn’t even warrant a response. You want to say how incredibly offended I am as a descendant of many people killed by nazis that this person says that elling you not to be a paranoid fool and give the government your damn name and birthday is akin to cooperating with nazis? I do find it incredibly offensive, but I also find it incredibly stupid, so I chose not to respond to it prior to this comment.

                  • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                    “you keep repeating the same question over and over again and I keep telling you the answer: the census bureau does not enforce the fine. And you keep hysterically talking about what happens if you don’t pay the fine that they don’t enforce? And the answer is still nothing.”:

                    But this answer makes no sense. It can be true, I do not know, but this is precisely why I ask you. Your answer makes no sense because each case I can think of when a fine is imposed it really is imposed, it needs to be paid. If a fine is not imposed then why would someone pay it in the first place? Can you also point to the law regarding people who ignore census fines. Again I do not know, so that is why I ask. But your answer that nothing happens does not make any sense for the questions that I bring up. Can you answer these additional questions that I brought force?

                    “As for the rest, it doesn’t even warrant a response. You want to say how incredibly offended I am as a descendant of many people killed by nazis that this person says that elling you not to be a paranoid fool and give the government your damn name and birthday is akin to cooperating with nazis? I do find it incredibly offensive, but I also find it incredibly stupid, so I chose not to respond to it prior to this comment.”:

                    Where do I talk about Nazis? I never bring up Nazis in these discussions. Whatever your complaint is about Nazis it is irrelevant because I did not bring them up.

                    I did however ask you a different question. You said that this uncooperative person wastes taxpayers money. But I asked you how is the one who is taking the taxpayers money away in the first place? If you want to put blame on someone who wastes taxpayers dollars then put it on the state, not on some individuals minding their own business. This was my other question directed towards you. It had nothing to do with Nazis. I have no idea why you even bring up Nazis here.

                    • Jack Mehoff

                      She is talking to me, as I am the one who brought up the nazis.

                      Abandoning Eden, you trust the US Census Bureau, and you are offended that I would draw a comparison to the nazis. But, the comparison is a damn good one. The Census Bureau coughed up the 411 on those with Japanese heritage, and they were herded into internment camps as a result. The nazis sent Jews to a different type of camp, but as a descendant of holocaust victims, I would think you would be a bit more concerned than you are about any government agency that has such a history of turning Americans over to camps.

                      And, if you say the Bureau is beyond reproach these days, and that it has impeccable honesty, and can be trusted, and that things have changed since the 1940s, then I will counter by referring you to the articles posted by Shiksa:

                      nypost.com/p/news/business/two_more_census_workers_blow_the_OqY80N3DBTvL17VmxKKR0O

                      biggovernment.com/jokeefe/2010/06/01/undercover-census-fraud-investigation-new-jersey/

                      As you can see, there is nothing holy about the Census Bureau. It is not G-dly. It is not G-d. Do not put your trust in man, but only in G-d. The Bureau is just another corrupt arm of a corrupt government. Read those articles and tell us if those are the people you want to reveal your innermost secrets to.

                      Oh, it’s only your name and birth date? Well, maybe some people consider that info so private that they feel as you would if you were asked how many times you perform oral sex each week. If you don’t feel comfortable being asked such things, then now you can understand how people such as Rabbi Rabbs feel being asked to divulge how much money they make, and how much they pay for utilities.

                      You called him an idiot. Your reason was that his community can receive more money if he divulges the info. Since you feel that even our most private secrets should be revealed if doing so helps to allocate money for your community, then I have an offer that you can’t say no to. Here it is: I will gladly fund your entire community once you reveal to us how many times you swallowed your husband this week, and what the size is of your bra.

                      If you don’t tell us, you are only hurting yourself, because I will fund your community once you tell us. You have my word on that, and I am a very rich man. If you don’t tell us, you’re just making this country worse.

                      You claimed that giving up name and birth date is not our most private info. Maybe to you it is not, but who are you to judge what is considered private to others. There are many people that use PO Boxes as their home address and pay for unlisted phone numbers to maintain their privacy. The census survey is even addressed to Resident to protect our privacy, and asking how many people live in Resident’s home is respectful to that privacy.

                      But, then asking for our names, birth dates, and race is NOT respectful and violates that privacy. If we allow the Bureau to ask us that in 2010, you can bet by 2040 it will ask us about our sex lives.

                      If you say that still doesn’t compare to the nazis, I will respond that if we allow the Bureau to send goons to stalk us in 2010 and threaten us with a monetary fine, we can expect the Bureau to send a couple of big gangster thugs to our door in 2020 to shake us down for the info until we are too intimidated to say no, and by 2030 we can expect imprisonment for refusing to submit, and maybe by 2040, we can expect water boarding, as the government will find a way to brand us “anti-government kooks” as a threat to the national security.

                      So, there is your comparison. Don’t think it could happen here? Ask the Japanese Americans.

                      As for your absurd accusation about wasting tax payer money, I will quote from the Washington Post, March 8, 2010:

                      “Most of the jobs will be what Census Bureau Director Robert Groves has called “tough work,” making house calls on nights and weekends to people who haven’t returned their forms. Census takers may make as many as six visits to each house to determine whether the residents have moved or if they just aren’t answering.”

                      Groves is a liar. Rabbs returned his form, and yet, Groves wasted taxpayer money by sending workers to Rabbs’ home. Groves did not need to determine whether residents had moved or if they aren’t answering, because the form sent to Rabbs’ home was returned to him. That means SOMEONE LIVES THERE!!!

                      The fact that Groves sent goons to Rabbs six times after already knowing that someone lives there proves that Groves is the one who wasted taxpayer money!!! The fact that you blame Rabbs and call him an idiot instead of blaming Groves and being pissed at your stupid government is troubling.

                    • Jack Mehoff

                      She is talking to me, as I am the one who brought up the nazis.

                      Abandoning Eden, you trust the US Census Bureau, and you are offended that I would draw a comparison to the nazis. But, the comparison is a damn good one. The Census Bureau coughed up the 411 on those with Japanese heritage, and they were herded into internment camps as a result. The nazis sent Jews to a different type of camp, but as a descendant of holocaust victims, I would think you would be a bit more concerned than you are about any government agency that has such a history of turning Americans over to camps.

                      And, if you say the Bureau is beyond reproach these days, and that it has impeccable honesty, and can be trusted, and that things have changed since the 1940s, then I will counter by referring you to the articles posted by Shiksa:

                      nypost.com/p/news/business/two_more_census_workers_blow_the_OqY80N3DBTvL17VmxKKR0O

                      biggovernment.com/jokeefe/2010/06/01/undercover-census-fraud-investigation-new-jersey/

                      As you can see, there is nothing holy about the Census Bureau. It is not G-dly. It is not G-d. Do not put your trust in man, but only in G-d. The Bureau is just another corrupt arm of a corrupt government. Read those articles and tell us if those are the people you want to reveal your innermost secrets to.

                      Oh, it’s only your name and birth date? Well, maybe some people consider that info so private that they feel as you would if you were asked how many times you perform fellatio each week. If you don’t feel comfortable being asked such things, then now you can understand how people such as Rabbi Rabbs feel being asked to divulge how much money they make, and how much they pay for utilities.

                      You called him an idiot. Your reason was that his community can receive more money if he divulges the info. Since you feel that even our most private secrets should be revealed if doing so helps to allocate money for your community, then I have an offer that you can’t say no to. Here it is: I will gladly fund your entire community once you reveal to us how many times you swallowed your husband this week, and what the size is of your bra.

                      If you don’t tell us, you are only hurting yourself, because I will fund your community once you tell us. You have my word on that, and I am a very rich man. If you don’t tell us, you’re just making this country worse.

                      You claimed that giving up name and birth date is not our most private info. Maybe to you it is not, but who are you to judge what is considered private to others. There are many people that use PO Boxes as their home address and pay for unlisted phone numbers to maintain their privacy. The census survey is even addressed to Resident to protect our privacy, and asking how many people live in Resident’s home is respectful to that privacy.

                      But, then asking for our names, birth dates, and race is NOT respectful and violates that privacy. If we allow the Bureau to ask us that in 2010, you can bet by 2040 it will ask us about our sex lives.

                      If you say that still doesn’t compare to the nazis, I will respond that if we allow the Bureau to send goons to stalk us in 2010 and threaten us with a monetary fine, we can expect the Bureau to send a couple of big gangster thugs to our door in 2020 to shake us down for the info until we are too intimidated to say no, and by 2030 we can expect imprisonment for refusing to submit, and maybe by 2040, we can expect water boarding, as the government will find a way to brand us “anti-government kooks” as a threat to the national security.

                      So, there is your comparison. Don’t think it could happen here? Ask the Japanese Americans.

                      As for your absurd accusation about wasting tax payer money, I will quote from the Washington Post, March 8, 2010:

                      “Most of the jobs will be what Census Bureau Director Robert Groves has called “tough work,” making house calls on nights and weekends to people who haven’t returned their forms. Census takers may make as many as six visits to each house to determine whether the residents have moved or if they just aren’t answering.”

                      Groves is a liar. Rabbs returned his form, and yet, Groves wasted taxpayer money by sending workers to Rabbs’ home. Groves did not need to determine whether residents had moved or if they aren’t answering, because the form sent to Rabbs’ home was returned to him. That means SOMEONE LIVES THERE!!!

                      The fact that Groves sent goons to Rabbs six times after already knowing that someone lives there proves that Groves is the one who wasted taxpayer money!!! The fact that you blame Rabbs and call him an idiot instead of blaming Groves and being pissed at your stupid government is troubling.

                    • Jack Mehoff

                      She is talking to me, as I am the one who brought up the nazis.

                      Abandoning Eden, you trust the US Census Bureau, and you are offended that I would draw a comparison to the nazis. But, the comparison is a good one. The Census Bureau coughed up the 411 on those with Japanese heritage, and they were herded into internment camps as a result. The nazis sent Jews to a different type of camp, but as a descendant of holocaust victims, I would think you would be a bit more concerned than you are about any government agency that has such a history of turning Americans over to camps.

                      And, if you say the Bureau is beyond reproach these days, and that it has impeccable honesty, and can be trusted, and that things have changed since the 1940s, then I will counter by referring you to the articles posted by Shiksa:

                      nypost.com/p/news/business/two_more_census_workers_blow_the_OqY80N3DBTvL17VmxKKR0O

                      biggovernment.com/jokeefe/2010/06/01/undercover-census-fraud-investigation-new-jersey/

                      As you can see, there is nothing holy about the Census Bureau. It is not G-dly. It is not G-d. Do not put your trust in man, but only in G-d. The Bureau is just another corrupt arm of a corrupt government. Read those articles and tell us if those are the people you want to reveal your innermost secrets to.

                      Oh, it’s only your name and birth date? Well, maybe some people consider that info so private that they feel as you would if you were asked how many times you do it doggy style each week. If you don’t feel comfortable being asked such things, then now you can understand how people such as Rabbi Rabbs feel being asked to divulge how much money they make, and how much they pay for utilities.

                      You called him an idiot. Your reason was that his community can receive more money if he divulges the info. Since you feel that even our most private secrets should be revealed if doing so helps to allocate money for your community, then I have an offer that you can’t say no to. Here it is: I will gladly fund your entire community once you reveal to us how many times you did it with your husband this week.

                      If you don’t tell us, you are only hurting yourself, because I will fund your community once you tell us. You have my word on that, and I am a very rich man. If you don’t tell us, you’re just making this country worse.

                      You claimed that giving up name and birth date is not our most private info. Maybe to you it is not, but who are you to judge what is considered private to others. There are many people that use PO Boxes as their home address and pay for unlisted phone numbers to maintain their privacy. The census survey is even addressed to Resident to protect our privacy, and asking how many people live in Resident’s home is respectful to that privacy.

                      But, then asking for our names, birth dates, and race is NOT respectful and violates that privacy. If we allow the Bureau to ask us that in 2010, you can bet by 2040 it will ask us who we sleep with.

                      If you say that still doesn’t compare to the nazis, I will respond that if we allow the Bureau to send goons to stalk us in 2010 and threaten us with a monetary fine, we can expect the Bureau to send a couple of big gangster thugs to our door in 2020 to shake us down for the info until we are too intimidated to say no, and by 2030 we can expect imprisonment for refusing to submit, and maybe by 2040, we can expect water boarding, as the government will find a way to brand us “anti-government kooks” as a threat to the national security.

                      So, there is your comparison. Don’t think it could happen here? Ask the Japanese Americans.

                      As for your absurd accusation about wasting tax payer money, I will quote from the Washington Post, March 8, 2010:

                      “Most of the jobs will be what Census Bureau Director Robert Groves has called “tough work,” making house calls on nights and weekends to people who haven’t returned their forms. Census takers may make as many as six visits to each house to determine whether the residents have moved or if they just aren’t answering.”

                      Groves is a liar. Rabbs returned his form, and yet, Groves wasted taxpayer money by sending workers to Rabbs’ home. Groves did not need to determine whether residents had moved or if they aren’t answering, because the form sent to Rabbs’ home was returned to him. That means SOMEONE LIVES THERE!!!

                      The fact that Groves sent goons to Rabbs six times after already knowing that someone lives there proves that Groves is the one who wasted taxpayer money!!! The fact that you blame Rabbs and call him an idiot instead of blaming Groves and being pissed at your stupid government is troubling.

                    • Anonymous

                      Does that deal only apply to her…. We do it doggy about every other week, (though my husband wants more). There now could you pleae fund my community. Thanks I live in statnen island

  • Shiksa

    Two more Census workers blow the whistle

    nypost.com/p/news/business/two_more_census_workers_blow_the_OqY80N3DBTvL17VmxKKR0O

    The scam runs deep!

  • The Census Bureau

    :'( I just asked those things because I wanted to be his friend!
    This blog hurt my feelings. I don’t see why he had to be such a dick about it.

  • pat

    There are two kinds of people posting here – those who think that government gets no power unless granted it, and those who think that government gets all the power not specifically withheld from it. Most of you are arguing over whether the Census is asking for sensitive information or how they’ll protect it. The point is, they have no right to ask for it. The larger point is that if government did do so much income transferring, it wouldn’t need to know about demographics.

    • Have any of you ever READ the Constitution?

      The national government does not have any rights (not even to your birthdate and telephone number) unless the Constitution specifically grants it to them, which it does not. Article 10 of the Constitution states, “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” So it might be constitutional for an individual state to decide to make a law asking for that information, but the federal government absolutely cannot force you to give that information or obtain it in any other way if you do not want them to have it. Now, some of these comments have a point as far as that refusing to give your birthdate or race may cause fewer monetary allocations to be granted to your demographic group, but as long as you don’t care about that, stand up for your rights! You are totally correct. I think you should sue them for infringing on your privacy. And maybe send this post to Fox News.

    • Jack Mehoff

      There are two kinds of people posting here — those such as Simchah and SkepticButJewish, who learned from history, and there are those such as Abandoning Eden, John, and A Nuran who are doomed to repeat it.

      • http://righteousrasha.blogspot.com Tova

        AE complains that a Census worker was assaulted with a soft drink.

        Maybe the assailant was upset that his predecessors were rounded up and placed into detention camps in the ’40s due to the Census Bureau.

        • http://abandoningeden.blogspot.com abandoning eden

          in my neighborhood it’s more likely he was upset that someone from the government might find his meth operation.

          • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

            AE, can you respond to my comments that I posted to you? Perhaps you did not see them. But I doubt it. I am sure you did considering that they were on this discussion page for a while. Most importantly I wanted to hear your response to my question “if an individual decides not to participate in the census and gets a fine on him, what will happen to him if he decides not to pay his fines?”. I was pressing you on this question for a while and I was patient but you never answered it. And I would also like to see you respond to what I wrote in response to you (my response to your very first post here) about “wasting taxpayers money”. You condemn the man for wasting taxpayers money, but you fail to realize it is the state itself that takes taxpayers money in the first place to waste.

            • http://abandoningeden.blogspot.com abandoning eden

              the government is mandated by the constitution to collect the census, so I wouldn’t call that a “waste” as it is required of the government. But it does cost something around $50 on average to send someone to your door vs. $.42 for you to mail it in. And that money is paid for by taxpayers. So yes, that’s a waste of money, wasted by idiocy and paranoia.

              I answered your question around a thousand times, they don’t enforce the fine, and they are not going to start, the official census policy is to give up after several tries, and they don’t have the time or resources to fine everyone who doesn’t answer, so they don’t fine anyone. The end.

              • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

                “the government is mandated by the constitution to collect the census, so I wouldn’t call that a “waste” as it is required of the government. But it does cost something around $50 on average to send someone to your door vs. $.42 for you to mail it in. And that money is paid for by taxpayers. So yes, that’s a waste of money, wasted by idiocy and paranoia. “:

                Forgot about the Constitution and forgot about all of that. Just look at who is wasting whose money. Who is the one taking money away from people in the first place? Who is the one who is using this money on increasing the police state that people did not even vote for? Who is the one who is using this money to murder innocent Iraqis everyday who pose no threat to us. Who is the one who is using this money on the failed ‘war on drug’? Who is the one who is taking money from people and wasting it on this failure of programs? It is amazing how you still fail to see the state as the biggest economic waster that we have. An individual who minds his own business is a taxpayer waster, but the state, despite all of these things, is not a waster according to you. The individuals who mind their own business are wasting tax money? Or it is the state itself who wastes tax money?

  • http://www.frumsatire.net Heshy Fried

    Why can’t we just give a half shekel, it would be so much easier.

    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

      Because that might actually be efficient.

  • JimmyDaGeek

    As a family genealogist, I would want Heshy to at least put his name and age (not birthdate) on the form, so future generations (72 years later) can find him. That is all I put on my form.

  • JG

    I feel that Rabbs is a bit uninformed. The point of the Census is not only to create constitutional districts but to provide demographic information that is used for allocating government resources, scholarly studies to detect possible discrimination and cultural trends, and more. Information about age, gender, and race are extremely helpful in creating accurate pictures of America’s demography. For example, in France, they do not have sufficient information on minorities in the country, and they use this to avoid accusations of discrimination.

    However, I agree that one should not be forced to give information that is not constitutionally required and I think it is silly that the Census Bureau puts so much effort into hounding people (six times? really?). But Rabbs should have made a better effort to understand the importance of the Census before labeling it as dangerous or an imposition onto the privacy of US citizens. It is a bad way of trying to portray the government as too interfering, just as Tea Party members try to convince others that Health care reform is unconstitutional. The government is not always the enemy.

    • http://skepticbutjewish.blogspot.com SkepticButJewish

      “Health care reform is unconstitutional”:

      Yes forcing people to buy insurance against their will is exactly what the Founders had in mind.

      Now I have no issue with going against the Constitution. For me it is just a piece of paper. What is most important are the ideas of the Enlightenment which influenced America. And that is what I defend. But I really dislike the double standard about how one group claims to support the Constitution and violate it at any opportunity they get.

  • Chris_B

    I hear Eichlers just got in a fine new line of tin foil kippot

  • http://www.mazeartist.com Sergey Kadinsky

    The law requires that people fill out their tax forms and census forms. Problem is that failure to answer the tax form comes with the threat of punishment. Failure to answer the census form only implies the threat of door-knocking and phone calls.

    Perhaps tax forms and census forms should come together in one package. Anyway, I answered my census form, because I want my tax money to come back to my neighborhood and serve my needs.

    In this recession, firehouse and library budgets are being cut back. But if everyone in my neighborhood answered their census form, the state would see that these services are much needed to serve a growing population.

    The census helps ensure taxation with representation.

    • Jack Mehoff

      Sergey, would you tell the government how many times you masturbate each week if doing so would bring more money to your neighborhood?

      • Anonymous

        Absolutely, especialy if the census was anonymous.
        Although I think you are confusing the census with a questionare you came across in penthouse

        • Jack Mehoff

          So you believe that the government is entitled to know everything that goes on inside your vagina. That’s fine. Just please be aware that most women in this country believe their uterus is not controlled by the US government

          • Anonymous

            nice bait and switch. you said know then switched it to control.
            incidently I found your absurdity so surprising even for an anti-goivernment kook that i double checked the census form which question had anything to do with vaginas? I really think you filled out the wrong form.

            • Jack Mehoff

              right to know = control

              Since according to you it is America’s right to know what goes on inside of your panties, I would ask you to now to post photos of yourself rubbing your clitoris. Thank you.

              • Anonymous

                again you are confusing the census with penthouse

                • Jack Mehoff

                  Genius, if you keep giving the government info that it isn’t entitled to, eventually the census form and penthouse will look identical.

                  The government will find a reason why it needs to know how many times you two do it doggy style, and then you will be required to tell. And, if you want me to fund Staten Island, then I will also need to know your bra size as I requested.

                  You believe that your body is our business, so then you should have no hesitation in posting a photo of your titties, as you see it as your civic duty. So, be the good American sheep that you are, and not a hypocrite, and post those photos! I bet they are brown and chewy.

                  Now that I’m thinking about it, I could send to you a real cool questionnaire that you apparently like to fill out, and you could check off from the following choices:

                  a. brown and chewy
                  b. pink and sucky
                  c. brown and sucky
                  d. pink and chewy

                  • http://www.mazeartist.com/2010works.htm Sergey Kadinsky

                    You’re a sick one. the census is anonymous

                    • Jack Mehoff

                      hardly. they have your address and from there can find everything they need to know about you

  • A Rabbs Fan
  • shim

    This degeneration to childish flaming is an embarrassment please for your own sakes and all of ours desist from posting and do something useful to further positive ends
    Thank you

  • vj

    I can not tell u my specific title due to confidentiallity papers but I worked for the census. The information is not at privatly kept as people want to think. I had to resign after truly finding out where the information goes. I could not be a party to it. It is total bull lying to people about how many buses they get is determined the census. Everytime you swipe a bus card they know exactlty how many buses are needed for the next year. When the kids go to school the are counted everyday so they know how many schools are needed. These ads on tv are purposely done like smoke signals to get people to give up information that is used to monitor your homes information. You better believe that if your social security numbers on file dont add up to the # of people you report you will be watched. Arizona people and undocumented need to watchout. This is just a friendly note, someone needed to tell the truth. Hope it clears up some stuff.

    • the REAL truth

      I cant tell you my title either, but you only know the half of it. The truth is the census bureau actually reports the legion of doom. I was part of the delegation sent to negotiate with an alien force that threatned to destroy earth. They promsied to let us go if the US gives a them a full report of the countrie’s demographics. THey wont they jut want to know our streangths to destroy us. DONT FILL OUT THE CENSUS!!!
      ever notice US CENUS = Union of Socialst Communist Enslavment Nazi UFO Service. PLEASE DONT FILL IT OUT

    • caselaw

      RABBI IS INCORRECT

      Morales v. Daley
      116 F.Supp.2d 801
      S.D.Tex.,2000.

      “Plaintiffs maintain that the only questions the government may lawfully compel answers to in connection with the census are questions that relate to the constitutionally-mandated enumeration or “head count””

      VI. Conclusion
      The Court finds that there is no basis for holding Census 2000 unconstitutional.

      • SkepticButJewish

        “RABBI IS INCORRECT”:

        Incorrect under whose standards? Their own standards?

  • Shiksa

    Undercover Census Fraud Investigation

    biggovernment.com/jokeefe/2010/06/01/undercover-census-fraud-investigation-new-jersey/

    Why would anyone trust the census bureau!?

  • shim

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
    states: “As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1.”

  • Anonymous

    i was stalked by the U.S census during a family members death.. when i asked them to please stop they didn’t, till this day they are still harassing me

  • Pissed

    I CALLED THE POLICE ON THE CENSUS TAKER

    CENSUS BUREAU HARASSMENT

    Today the census person came to my house again. This time they got into the building and walked right up to my door and started pounding on it. I informed the person that I was NOT interested in taking the census and to go away. The person REFUSED. I said I would call the POLICE if they didn’t leave. They said “go ahead and call them”. So I did. The POLICE came and chased the person away. Can you believe the nerve of the census taker to wait for the Police.

    I have a good lawsuit against the Census Bureau now. WHY?

    (1) Even if there is a legal requirement to provide household information, it is illegal to obtain this information by harassment.

    (2) Art. 13, as read above, provides a penalty of $100 for refusing. Thus, there is NO need for harassment.

    (3) The census bureau is able to obtain household information from from my tax return (husband and wife), or from the landlord.

    IGNORANT BELIEF

    If you think the census survey is just about the division of money, you are a FOOL. It is ALSO the U.S. Government’s method of INTELLIGENCE COLLECTION on the people. The FBI, CIA, Homeland security and other agencies will have access to that information. And if you actually believe that federal law keeps the census bureau from sharing your information even if it states it won’t, you are even more of a fool.

    • Jack Mehoff

      I’m sorry that happened to you. That’s really bad, I can imagine why you’re so pissed. You’re the first person I know of that called the cops on the census people. I was curious about that, like what would happen if someone called the cops, because I thought maybe the federal worker might be protected by the federal government, so if the local cops tried to interfere with that, then the FBI or someone would come and arrest the local cops.

      I don’t know how that works but it is interesting to me that the cops in your municipality took the call and told the bugger to get lost. I could see them saying it’s not within their jurisdiction or whatever instead.

      Let me ask you something, if you don’t mind answering, which city do you live in?

      I would love to wake up to a headline of Cops Arrest Census Takers. That would kick ass!

  • PISSED

    RABBI IS INCORRECT

    RABBI stated “I challenge the Bureau to prove in court that the personal questions it asks in its offensive forms are necessary in determining how many people live in my voting district.”

    RABBI, the Census Bureau did prove it in Court under Morales v. Daley.

    CASE LAW: “HEAD COUNT”

    Morales v. Daley
    116 F.Supp.2d 801
    S.D.Tex.,2000

    “Plaintiffs maintain that the only questions the government may lawfully compel answers to in connection with the census are questions that relate to the constitutionally-mandated enumeration or “head count””

    “Plaintiffs Edgar Morales, Laique Rehman, Nouhad K. Bassila, George Breckenridge, and William Jeffrey Van Fleet have brought a number of challenges to the constitutionality of Census 2000 and have asked for a permanent injunction of their obligation to answer the census questions asked of them”

    On the long form they object to these question and a number of others. Specifically, they object to the question concerning marital status (7), educational background (8-10), ancestry and ethnic origin (10), whether the person speaks a language other than English, and, if so, which one, and how well the person speaks English (11), length of residence in the dwelling (15), medical conditions or problems (16 and 17), where the person worked “last week” (22), how the person got to work (23), when the person left home for work and how long it took to get there (24), work/layoff/absence history (25 and 26), occupation and employer (27-30), income and source of income (31 and 32), the nature of the housing, including the number of rooms and bedrooms in the house (37 and 38), plumbing, kitchen, and phone service (39 to 41), information about rent, mortgage, insurance, and home value (46-53). Plaintiffs also object to the fact that stated prominently on the envelope in which the census forms are mailed are the words, “You are required by law to answer these questions.”

    Title 13 U.S.C. § 221(a) and (b) provides that if a person fails to respond to an answer he can be fined up to $100 for each unanswered question. If an answer is incorrect, the person is subject to a fine of up to $500 for each incorrect answer. Plaintiffs contend that the questions on the long and short forms, beyond the questions dealing with the number of residents in the dwelling, are intrusive, objectionable, and invade their privacy. They do not want to answer them. They feel intimidated by the threat of criminal sanctions if they fail to answer the questions, and they feel that if they protect their privacy and refuse to answer that they will be exposing themselves to hundreds or, if they were unlucky and received the long form, thousands of dollars in fines.

    II. Constitutional Limitation on the Census
    The review of the Census 2000 reveals that from the first census, taken in 1790, the Congress has never performed a mere headcount. It has always included additional data points, such as race, sex, and age of the persons counted.

    VI. Conclusion
    The Court finds that there is no basis for holding Census 2000 unconstitutional. Accordingly, it is hereby

    • http://Youtube.com/rabbirabbs Rabbi Rabbs

      “RABBI, the Census Bureau did prove it in Court under Morales v. Daley. ”

      Oh ok, thanks for letting me know. However, that doesn’t make me “incorrect”. I never stated that it did not win it court. Rather, I merely challenged the Bureau, and apparently, they already took me up on my challenge and won.

      The thing that still bothers me is that if the Bureau had already won in court, then it should have written that on the brochure the stalker dude handed to me instead of merely citing six irrelevant sections of the Federal Code.

      Based on what I was handed, I believe I was still acting in the right by ignoring them. Had that pamphlet explicitly stated the applicable case law, I would have written an entirely different essay, and only focused on the harassment aspect of the Bureau.

  • Pissed

    CENSUS TAKER ARRESTED

    Take a look at this arrest of a census taker:

    http://www.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/20100528/NEWS20/5280335/Census-taker-bullied-in-Puna

    My money is on the home owner against the census taker for TRESPASSING (The only issue will be “Whether the census taker remained on the property when asked to leave”).

    My m0ney is on the home owner because Title 13 pertaining to the Census report grants the census bureau the power to fine the home owner NOT trespass. Thus, the census bureau employee has NO legal authority to violate local trespass laws. The moment the home owner instructed the census taker to leave, his remaining on the owner’s property was trespass.

    The way the census taker can win this case is if he could show that federal law preempts state trespass laws. I highly doubt he can do that. He should have just left and reported the person and had him fined. I believe the fine would have been as high as $5,000 for the person visit and $15,000 for the long form.

    Some of this IDIOT census takers don’t realize they are breaking the law because they think their job with the federal government will protect them. Boy, if a home owner goes after them legally, they are in for it. Just like that idiot census taker today who refused to leave. She was committing harassment and she didn’t even realize it.

    Federal preemption, displacement of U.S. state law by U.S. Federal law

    For example, the idiot census taker didn’t realize she was violating local aggravated harassment laws. Since Art 13 of the U.S. Code does NOT preempt local harassment laws, she was subjected to arrest (More research would have to go to determine the preemption question).

  • Rachel

    The census workers have been stalking me and my neighbors for week. Based on my own encounters, neighbors encounters and the trash they leave on my door, they have been to my house a total of no less than 13 times.

    I filled out the census giving the number of people in the household and that was it. I will not give my personal information. My name, phone number, etc…is not necessary.

    They can send the big mack daddy in the White House himself and they’re going to get the same answer: One human being lives here.

    • Jack Mehoff

      LOL!

    • getoveryourself

      Although one human being lives there they want to know about you too. I say forget about paranoid crazies, but the government still counts you

  • beverly

    I am being harrassed by the US Census Bureau. They sent me 2 American Community Surveys, which I threw away. Now they have called me 4 times because I said I do not wish to participate in their survey. The last phone call the man said they will be sending a worker to my home. I will not answer the door. I am frustrated. Thanks for your story.

    • http://Youtube.com/rabbirabbs Rabbi Rabbs

      You’re welcome, and I am sad to learn what is happening to you.

  • http://itsgrindingmygears.blogspot.com holly

    I have had them endlessly harass me on the phone after I filled the form out 2xs and talked to someone they sent to my door…. anyway, i thought i would turn it into something funny. Please read…
    http://itsgrindingmygears.blogspot.com/2010/06/dear-mr-census-worker.html

    • http://Youtube.com/rabbirabbs Rabbi Rabbs

      I just read your blog. That’s awesome! I tried to comment over there, but the software isn’t showing my comment.

  • beverly

    Another phone call this morning. This time it was an ethnic sounding person, maybe Latina, possibly Puerto Rican, and I firmly and respectfully asked if she had a warrant for the information regarding my personal information. She said no. I stated she was in violation of my 4th Amendment rights and asked to be left alone. I have anxiety attacks when I see the US Census Bureau on my caller ID and I am seriously thinking about seeking medical help for these attacks. I may have to sue for causing health problems.

    • Anonymous

      you should definitely get medical help. anxiety attacks from the census bureau is not normal, contact your nearest psych-ward

  • beverly

    By the way, the Census Bureau worker’s name was Gina Dalton at phone #520-798-4152.

  • Michal

    Rabbs 2 questions:
    where were you ordained, or do you just use the title “rabbi” freely kinda like Dr. Pepper being a doctor?
    Why werent you included in this illustrious panel of half-wits http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/thu-april-1-2010/2010-census

  • Christie

    I realize this is an old thread but I can’t help myself here as I had a bad personal experience with the Census Bureau that spanned a couple of years and two states. I participated in a voluntary SIPP survey for which I was told by the Census worker I could stop doing at any time.

    Well, eventually I decided to discontinue my participation. However, the Census continued to send multiple people by my home, called, and sent me mail. When I moved from TN to IN the Census picked right back up where they left off with a woman named Betty calling and leaving notes on the front door of my home. They refused to stop the harassment. I sent letters and called the regional director of this particular survey, which is in IL, and he told me they would not remove me.

    I decided to contact my Congresswoman and someone from her office called the regional director on my behalf. They followed up with me after the call and stated the director told them there was no guarantee I’d be removed. Yes, that’s right folks–EVEN MY CONGRESSWOMAN COULDN’T STOP THE HARASSMENT.

    I told Betty one day after getting a call from her that if she came by my house again I would call the police. I was able to finally get her to stop driving over to my house but the calls continued. They extended the survey which means I was harassed an additional year…..Once the survey “ended” they didn’t bother me anymore.

    Those who think the Census Bureau is benign are sorely misled.

  • oy

    well we filled out the form and they are calling at all odd hours of the day, night, weekends, Shabbos. I think they may not be real possibly. Everytime I’m busy they call. So I’m blocking all these strange numbers that are not listed on the census bureau’s website as an official number. They have enough information to allocate funds to the city by the way and anymore info would be opening up my zipper for them to reach into my genitilia. Never give out your private info by phone if u can help it because there are scammers out there who may wait for u to come home and jump or steal. Don’t tell them your work hours or that u r a woman alone, or that u r alone with 1 child. The government has no right to call Jews on Shabbos by the way and that is a violation of the constitution in itself nor Sundays when people go to church and not attend to gov interrogations or harrassing phone calls. Someone’ who waits on someone’s property could be shot so they better not do that either. Try Madonna’s property sometime and get shot or try any unknown as well and maybe the same. I’ll consider it an intent to rape or commit a crime if u step out of bounds with me or stalk me.

    • oy

      Why are you using my screen name?

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