I love mechitzas, I really do, especially the kind that give you a small opportunity to check out the ladies, if you’re clever enough. I don’t like the really short one’s because they don’t provide a challenge and the ladies can stare right back, but there’s nothing like a curtain waving open to reveal some lovely ladies when someone walks by it too fast and makes it flutter open.
Carved Wood: One of the most popular types of mechitzas is the carved wooden wall, it usually has holes big enough
to take in full body scans of the ladies. I like this design because it allows for casual glances, and keeps the mystery of the ladies section alive without shutting it out from public view. Carved wood also allows for ladies to grab a hold of the mechitza to steady themselves in the event of extreme kavannah, you will then be able to see if they have rings on their fingers so you can formulate your Kiddush flirtation strategies.
The Balcony: Great for the ladies, terrible for the men, unless they happen to be carrying binoculars, then it could get interesting. Balconies make it hard for men, it hurts out necks and eyes. It can also be very deceptive for women look better when they are far away, as the saying goes “good from far, far from good.” The only thing about the Balcony is that you can look around the shul without fearing that you are staring at anyone.
Glass: If you want to look at girls it’s great, but if you feel like scratching your balls – everyone will be looking at you.
Glass takes the mystery out of the ladies; they are right there and never as good looking as they are when there is a carved wood mechitza blocking half of their size. I guess the best thing about having a glass mechitza is giving people shomer negia high fives through the glass.
The curtain: Typically used in makeshift situations like small chabad houses and basement shuls, the curtain style of mechitza usually makes it impossible to see into the women’s section. All is not lost with the curtain mechitza, because it is possible that gaps may form between different sections, gusts of wind from folks walking past or shuckeling violently or the occasional mechittza mishap may all provide a view into the women’s section. In certain situations, you can strategically place your chair at a poll and peek into at the ladies, but this is not advisable in basement shuls – because hot girls rarely attend.
Side by Side: The first time I walked in to the Jewish Center on the upper west side I though we had walked into the wrong shul. They were putting away the torah and everyone was standing, it appeared as if they were all standing together, and there was this awkward moment when I had to ask one of the ushers (only modern orthodox snobbish shuls have ushers) if we were in an orthodox shul. When everyone sat down it became apparent that the women were sitting on an elevated platform with a short wood wall that could have doubled as an armrest. Side by side mechitzas suck, I really don’t like them for a few reasons, usually the women have a vantage point and when you do try and look they always catch you staring. These are the type of mechitzas that invite over the mechitza baby passing as well.
The one way mirror: I never understood why it was tznius for women to look at us in plain view but for us not to look at them. Do they really think that women aren’t as horny as men or is it just because they might as well throw em a bone? Either way I don’t like it, it’s unfair, they should give us the one way mirror, that way we can look at the women and the women can style their sheitles in the mirror, besides isn’t it against halacha to daven while looking at a mirror. The strangest one way mechitza I have ever seen is located in Shaare Zion in Baltimore, the women can see in and the men can see in if they bend down and look at the one way nylon mechitza from an angle.
Window Blinds: I have been a quite a few shuls that have window blinds as their mechitza, thank God they are of the cruddy office kind and not of the Israeli type that shut out all light and sound. Even the most quality window blinds let some light in and this mean you can have random peeks at the ladies, someone may rustle the blinds or hit them and bend them to provide small peepholes for your viewing pleasure. Also, shuls that have blinds tend to raise them up for the rabbis speech or presidents announcements, they do this in Beth Abraham Jacob in Albany and at Goldbergers in Baltimore, unfortunately at Goldbergers they decided to keep it tznius and the blinds have been tznius proofed and don’t go down all of the way.
Portable mechitza walls: I was at this shul in Baltimore once with a girl and they had to erect this one seat mechitza for her to sit in, I would have rather davened outside than in the solitary confinement they afforded her, women just don’t belong in basement shuls. This whole point is that portable mechitzas rock, because they are hastily set up and therefore they have gaps, sometimes big enough gaps for full body imaging, but sometimes big enough to tell the girl to meet you by the cholent table so you can rub kishke on each other.
Short enough to step over: These mechitzas provide no fodder for the mind, the ladies are all there in plain sight and I usually wish they had a wall to block them out from my brain. It seems that all of the hotties go to shuls with very tall mechitzas or balconies. Typically these shuls are described by frummies as “sort of frum”,
The cracked window: I have been to several shuls that have the ladies section in separate rooms with a window slightly cracked open to allow the sounds of davening to flutter into the ladies so they can say amen. In this case your only hope is to hang around the bathrooms or wait until shul is over at which point the women usually get the hell out before any man can see who was there.
The carved out ceiling: This one is hard to explain, basically the women are upstairs, and there is a big hole in the ceiling with windows on all sides, but the hole is quite narrow and on the women standing in front can see anything. I am pretty sure that the main sanctuary in Landaus minyan factory in Brooklyn has what I am trying to describe. Either way you will never get an up skirt shot and rarely can you actually see the ladies.
Wooden Wall with a curtain: Sometimes you can see hands protruding through and if that gets you off, you should probably stay very far away from women. Really yeshivish shuls have these, the only reason I could figure out is so they can open the curtains when there aren’t women there to signal that the coast is clear for men to daven mincha in the ladies section. Have you ever noticed that men will daven mincha but not shachris in the women’s section?
Fake Trees: Commonly seen at weddings and chabad houses, mechitzas made of fake trees are really cool. They give you the mystery along with clear unobstructed views. If you’re a real bastard you could even move them around before the ladies get there to improve your view. Sometimes fake trees are combined with portable walls to make it a bit more secure.
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{ 67 comments… read them below or add one }
Israeli Chareidi Mechitza: balcony+ glass +bars
But no women anyway. It’s considered ‘modern’ for women to go to Shul here.
These last five posts have been pretty good. You’re on a roll.
You outdid yourself with this one. I’m cracking up here!
Your opening paragraph clinched it!
“I don’t like the really short one’s because they don’t provide a challenge and the ladies can stare right back, but there’s nothing like a curtain waving open to reveal some lovely ladies when someone walks by it too fast and makes it flutter open.”
First off. Love this. But I am torn… On the one hand you’re showing how painfully frustrated you are and that’s very human of you. Coupled with your most excellent writing skills, and its a laugh riot. However, since it is following the rather frum Thoughts on Jewish Feminists post, I cannot help but point out the hypocrisy here. You slam these women because they’re going against halacha and doing this for the wrong reasons, but your argument would carry alot more weight if you did not clearly demonstrate that you yourself don’t go to shul to daven, but rather to umm… scratch balls and stare at ladies whose size you prefer to be partially hidden in case they turn out to be a Monet?! WTF dude!
I agree.
Also, Hesh, please get laid.
I’ve had the same GF since July thank you very much.
Mazel Tov!!!
I just have a Japanese pillow girlfriend. We’re shomer.
Esther it’s quite obvious that you haven’t been reading me too long – I put up opposing opinions from myself and from others all of the time.
Did you read my incredibly pro-Sara Hurwitz post where I proclaimed it to be one of the best things for orthodoxy in some time?
Also you do understand that as a humor site everything here is a bit exaggerated, do you think I actually drag myself out of bed on a Saturday at 8 in the morning to look at women? In the bay area women don’t even go to shul.
Yes, you’re right. I am a newbie. I will definitely find and read your pro-Sara Hurwitz post. Actually, I fully intend to browse through the entire site and read up.
Of course I understand that you exaggerate, although I am not certain, from reading some of the comments, that every single person reading your posts understands that.
I sure hope you drag yourself out of bed at 8 am to concentrate on praying and getting closer to G-d.
Re: contradicting yourself – as long as you’re aware and doing it intentionally, its fine. My general thoughts on contradicting oneself: people are contradictory and will go against themselves. Its human nature. It would do us all well to remember that and perhaps be less judgmental as a result…
One of the points of this site is trying to see contradictory points within orthodox Judaism, but the other thing I like to present is opposing viewpoints, while most sites stic,k to one side of the story. I don’t want to be NPR or FOX news if you know what I mean.
you forgot the chicken wire
I didn’t know the Blues Brothers played shul gigs
I know, I mentioned that in the comments on the best of worst of post. I also mentioned the hole in the ceiling mechitzahs. I think Hesh got the idea from me.
There’s a shul in Tzvat, I think it’s the Yosef Carro shul. The mechitza there is a brick wall with a tiny metal slat at eye level. Upstairs of course. It’s quite hard to flirt.
Don’t worry Tzfas has the flip side to that the Carlbach shul the only Shul in the world that needs 2 michitza’s
One way mirror is for women to know when to sit and stand. Women who’ve grown up never seeing what goes on haven’t a clue when/why to stand and sit. And if they have even a drop of AD/HD I can’t understand how they can bear going to shul. We agree about those horrible curtain mechitzas.
Dude, i don’t know what you’re talking about… in Albany, travelers daven in the women’s side(not ON but IN) all the time during the week for shacharit. It’s a real problem, because we actually have a woman who comes to daven every few days. At least once a week, if not twice. Once, i saw her walking up the sidewalk, and i had to ask the two men to leave because a woman was coming. i think you addresses this at one point, did you not?
In my shul in Queens, men love to use the little women’s room every single morning. Sometimes when the weather is bad we barely get a minyan and we have to check the ezras nashim for more men. Don’t get why they are so obsessed with davening in a section meant for women.
Maybe they’re closet fags, Avrumy should be able to help you figure that one out.
Levy, I’ve asked. They like the privacy.
Agreed.
Plus, it was a good place to read.
And, they often had better chairs.
I used to go to shul during the weak for Shacharis. I would tell point blank, “get out of MY women’s sections-NOW! Go! Scoo! Why are you still here?”
We gays love the mechitzah. It keeps the men together and the women together. No need to sneak peeks or hope the curtian flutters.
Avrumy,
Gay shuls should have seperate seating for modim and aleinu.
Let me guess, their motto is:
Sim yadcha tachas yereichi
And we love to welcome the Sabbath Queen.
Avrumy,
Do the seats come with built in prostate massagers?
Poor Phil. Vulgar as always.
Have a good Shabbos in your closet.
Avrumy,
Now now, speak for yourself. I’m happily married and proud of it as much as you may wish otherwise.
I thought you were over the crush you had on me
So are Larry Craig and Ted Haggard
Exactly, Avrumy.
It’s patently obvious that Phil is a closet homosexual – he’s obsessed with writing about mikvas, anal sex, masturbation and the like.
His consistent attempts to be appear narrow-minded aren’t effective in masking his gay desires, though.
Avrumy, you’re on the money with this one.
It’s patently obvious that Phil is a closet homosexual – and having a wife and kids doesn’t preclude this – due to his obsessive talk about men’s mikvas, anal sex, and masturbation.
His attempt to disguise his identity with narrow-minded viewpoints is ineffective.
I’ve always wondered about that. Ha!
This is where I am going to have to disagree with you, Heshy. I feel a Mechitza is a sexist and pointless practice. Where’s the bima? Not in the middle. If “separate but equal” doesn’t hold water in one instance, it doesn’t hold water across the board. And if a person needs to be segregated from the opposite sex because otherwise they simply aren’t capable of focusing in Schul, then they shouldn’t be there. End of story.
95% of orthodox Women come to shul once a week, does that mean we should have the bimah in the middle for once a week shul goers. Besides, most women don’t come on time, and the shuls where women come more often usually have the bimah in the center of the shul.
If you feel a mechitza is sexist and pointless you don’t have to daven in those type of shuls, you can to a shul without a mechitza. If you start picking apart the torah and halacha it is prety much all sexist and possibly pointless from many viewpoints.
“95% of orthodox Women come to shul once a week, does that mean we should have the bimah in the middle for once a week shul goers. Besides, most women don’t come on time, and the shuls where women come more often usually have the bimah in the center of the shul.”
I think this a chicken-and-egg thing. In my opinion, when a shul’s bimah is set up in the men’s section, the message that is communicated is that this shul is a man’s domain and responsibility and that women are guests who are allowed to watch. I think that it would only be a natural consequence for men to then make more of an effort than women to come on time.
Perhaps if men and women davened side by side, with the bima and aron in the middle, both men and women would feel that they are being equally represented and that they are both equally important in shul, and both would take it as seriously.
However, mainstream Orthodoxy don’t believe that men and women are equal in shul – it believes that men have the obligation and responsibility to attend (and thereby its associated privileges that come along with, i.e. aliyot, leining, being part of minyan etc.) whereas women don’t (which comes along with the freedom of sleeping late but the consequence of not counting for minyan, not getting aliyot, and often not really getting to see what’s going on.)
I am not going to even debate whether or not I agree with the mainstream Orthodox view – I’m just saying what I think the Orthodox view is.
Hannah,
It seems that you, like the rest of these misguided feminist freaks, actually have no concept of halacha, and no respect for our sages.
Are you suggesting that the Tannaim / Amoraim that put the mechitza rules in place were a bunch of perverts?
Women behind the mechitza are already enough of a distraction as Hesh can attest to, especially when they come to shul to yack away and gossip during laining and davening.
If you want to mix with men in a social setting, go to the beach or a night club.
First of all, I never called anyone a name, Phil. This happens to be my opinion, and no, I don’t go to a schul with a mechitza, but since this article is about them, I thought it fair to just say, “Look, I disagree.” And so you, Mister Misguided-Feminist-Freak-with-all-the-knowledge-of-halacha-and-sages, what does the Torah say about Motzi Shem Ra? So I can’t say, “I disagree,” but you can call me names because I disagree, and sit there and talk about women yacking away and gossiping? How do you know what they’re talking about? Why aren’t you focusing on davening, if you’re such the righteous little yeshiva bocher?
And Heshy, maybe if women felt that we were included, we might come more often. Or maybe not. Frankly, if they’re all like Phil, I can see why the women would stay away. If Phil were in my schul, I would have a mechitza of concrete blocks.
Hanah,
I don’t remember ever calling you any names. You were the ones that wrote: “And if a person needs to be segregated from the opposite sex because otherwise they simply aren’t capable of focusing in Schul, then they shouldn’t be there.”
As the Tanaim were the ones to institute this rule, you are in effect saying that they shouldn’t be there because they can’t control themselves.
As for what the women are taliking about behind the mechitza, you’re right. I don’t know that they are gossiping, maybe they are having a gemara shiur and shteiging away. Doesn’t matter. It isn’t the time or place, and it disturbs everyone else.
And yes, there are women that daven with more kavana than a lot of the men, and yes there are men that yack away all of shul instead of davening. Doesn’t make it right.
So… “misguided feminist freaks” isn’t name calling? I’m not saying that yacking away is ok whether it be men or women. What I am saying is that, in my opinion, if you’re there to talk, or to check out what someone else is wearing, or gossip, or hell, even trade recipes, then it’s the wrong place. That said, if you have to sit behind a curtain so that you can focus, then (again, in my opinion) you need to work on your concentration skills.
Regardless, I don’t appreciate being called a “freak” because I happen to disagree with you.
Hannah,
OK, maybe freak was a bit harsh.
If you think that shuls shouldn’t have mechitzas and men should rather be forced to concentrate, you’re disagreeing with the halachic authorities, not with me.
If these tzadikkim knew that mixing men and women would distract them, how much more so would it distract plain everyday guys like us?
Phil,
Name-calling aside, my point is this: yes. I disagree. I also disagree that tearing toilet paper consists of “breaking” shabbos. I think that the point of any religion, but more specifically Judaism, is to bring communities and families together. It should be what binds us into a people, generation after generation. It should be a loving, warm blanket that we place on the shoulders of our children… I cannot believe that HaShem means for us to tear families apart the minute we enter schul. I understand what the tzadikkim say, but it’s possible for people to be wise, and still be incorrect. That’s my opinion: that it becomes exponentially harder to say that this is a religion of love and family, when the one place that should be the *most* family oriented insists on segregating the key components.
But, like Heshy said, that’s why I don’t go to a schul with a mechitza.
Hannah,
Your idea of religion doesn’t seem to follow what’s described as the “yoke of Torah”.
What happens when Hymie brings Kristy to meet his parents instead of Sadie? Do you expect them to have a warm fuzzy interfaith ceremony?
(not trying to compare mechitza to intermarriage).
What about when Mushky is making a communal seder for 300 people and a tiny bit of chametz falls into the stew? Do you think she’d feel warm and fuzzy about having to start over from scratch?
Phil,
Your concept of debate doesn’t seem to follow what’s called “logic.” Do you follow EVERYTHING halachic? Every single law, at all times? I’m guessing not, unless you read “The Year of Living Biblically” and felt that was your calling. Not even the Vilna Goan could do it.
Am I saying that since you can’t follow everything, you should follow nothing? No. But there needs to be room for debate and logic and disagreement. Your type of binary logic is a primary reason why a lot of us have moved away from Orthodoxy, and more toward Conservative. Does it follow “the yoke”? Meh, I guess not. But I love being Jewish, and I’m a lot happier than I would be if I had to sit on some balcony and explain to my daughter why G-D doesn’t want her daddy to be near her.
As to what happens when Dov brings home Daisey, well, I would imagine that we would have fewer genetic disorders for one thing. For another, I think you should take a look in the mirror… whatever color you are, I’m guessing it’s the result of GENERATIONS of intermarriage and conversion when your Jewish ancestors got to their final destination and met the rest of the family tree. Unless your family has lived in Israel since King David, you, my friend, are the result of a break in halacha somewhere along the way.
So, without a break in the law, you wouldn’t be here… there’s a double-edged sword for ya!
Hannah,
Speak for yourself. Halacha assumes Jews to come from pure lineage and valid converts unless there is a valid reason to think otherwise.
And yes, much of halacha is based on binary logic, sometimes looking outdated, or not fully understandable. Those are called Chukim.
Can you give me any “valid” reason not to wear Shaatnez or mix milk and meat besides the Torah saying so? I doubt it.
If feeling good is all that religion is about, we might as well become rastafarians, sit on the beach and smoke dope all day. Sounds like more fun than Yom Kippur.
See this is the problem with having Libs and Righties on your site – everyone thinks they’re right – when none of you are right.
Women don’t belong in shul in the first place, they belong in the kitchen with the rest of the sisterhood cutting up entamins for kiddush.
Amen.
Right! This way, Phil can spend all his time alone with the men.
Sounds like another case of penis envy…
Nah, I don’t much care to be a closeted gay man who is obsessed with writing about men’s mikvas, anal sex and masturbation.
HA!
Hey Borat, at least spell Entenmann’s correctly?
What a pervert!
Go get laid.
Why are none of my comments allowed?
Phil, I do not envy you or your penis. I don’t much care to be a closeted gay man who is obsessed with writing about men’s mikvas, prostate stimulation, anal sex and masturbation.
Test…will this comment go through?
Hmm, so Phil’s allowed to be a boorish liar but no one’s allowed to respond to him.
I see.
If Phil thinks I envy him or his penis, he’s got another thing coming. I don’t much envy a closeted gay man who is obsessed with writing about prostate stimulation, men’s mikvas, anal sex and masturbation.
Tova,
Talk about obsessed, I don’t see why you felt you had to answer my jab 10 times with name calling.
I wasn’t the one that chose any of these topics or wrote any of these articles, it was Hesh. I just posted a couple of “funny” comments, and you and the rest of your gay feminist sisterhood seem to have got your panties in a bunch
Maybe if you stopped writing about your sexual interests every other comment, no one would speculate about you.
…And you keep lying about me. Do you realize why that’s wrong, or do you justify it through your dislike of the female sex?
Female s*x is the only kind I like
, maybe you should try it sometime… OK, maybe not, you’d be oiver a d’rabbanan.
I have nothing personal against you or anyone else on this blog. I like to speak my mind, sue me if I’m wrong. Last I checked, I still had the right to free speech and the right to offend.
Well, Canada still seems to allow freedom of speech, but give it time…
Sarge,
Quebec is actualy looking at banning hijabs and yarmulkas in public, as well as religious schooling for toddlers. Hopefully, Canada will step in to protect our rights. It all started when a muslim incollege refused to take off her niquab during class, it’s spiralled downwards at high speed over the last few weeks.
Thought it was just banning gov’t subsidized religious schooling for toddlers, which I believe still puts Canada ahead of the U.S. (which AFAIK doesn’t subsidize any schooling for toddlers; though they may be right to do it, as you rarely if ever see any toddlers win the Nobel Prize or even the Wolf Prize)
Meir,
They already took away a Jewish college’s permit this year. The college had about 1/2 Jews and 1/2 non Jews, and was an affiliate of one of the bigger unversities. The owners are frum Jews, and the French media started bitching about some separate classes they had for men and women. A few months later, the minister removed their permit.
They then went after the religious day schools that don’t teach enough secular studies about the way the inidans trapped rats for fur before the white man arrived. The government came to an agreement to allow all scholls to open on Sunday to make up hours, and again, the hypocrits in the govt that preach secularism blamed the Jews, never mind that having Sunday off is a religious thing.
A couple weks ago, they went after the daycares, and over the weekend, the latest proposal would ban any government workers from wearing kippahs or hijabs on the job.
Then they have the nerve to sing about our freedoms and rights.
Hey hesh. posted a comment here last night but never got posted. what the hell thats bull shit. others have been complaining about the same thing WHATS UP???
If your comment is sexed up I won’t post it – I post 99.9% of comments that automatically go to spam.
Phil,
I’m the only one I ever have spoken for, but you’d have to be insane to think anyone on earth is a “pure” anything. That’s absurd and statistically extremely unlikely. There’s always a wondering salesman, or a Mongol hoard or something.
As to mixing milk and meat, yes, there are reasons not to. Archeology has found that many of the Jewish dietary laws had a valid basis in health. That said, let’s be fair, you yourself admit you’re pretty much a binary thinker who can’t form an argument without personal attacks, so there really is no reason for me to continue this debate. So, if you want to respond, feel free, but frankly this is boring me now, and your arguments of “nuh uh!” are worn out.
Later!