Masturbation is kind of like loshon horah, both are terrible sins and everyone is doing it pretty often. Typically when someone wants to find out if you’re frum, they ask if you keep kosher and shabbos, if you masturbate on shabbos you are mechalel shabbos and aren’t frum, but if you masturbate during the week it’s cool, you only get kurase cut off, of the ex communicated variety, don’t worry your penis will remain intact, although according to the Light of Efraim* you will be chased through the skies by all the semen you killed and then you will be boiled in your semen. How on earth our neshamas without their bodies can be boiled is beyond me, but I don’t want to find out.
I know you thought this was all a big joke, so if you want to remain ignorant and go on breaking shabbos pretending that yanking your kishke is a mitzvah because it relaxes you and you are supposed to feel good on shabbos – read no further.
The following is a direct quote from the Ribiat sefer on 39 melochos:
“Very gentle massaging to relax ones muscles, or to alleviate muscular pains, can be permitted on shabbos. As explained, strenuous or vigorous exercises are forbidden. Mildly rubbing and manipulating the muscles is not halachically considered medical therapy. However vigorous rubbing and massaging should not be done on shabbos.”
Source: Pg 499, vol-2, 39 melochos, Ribiat
How about that for some koveah ittim?
*The Light of Efraim has got to be one of the strangest books I have ever read. It is about a young couple becoming frum and dealing with their sexual improprieties from their former and current lifestyle. The guy who wrote the book is a kabalist and if you feel like reading about boiling in your own semen, and all of the other good stuff that is going to happen to you if you waste your seed and have premarital sex, or don’t go to the mikvah I would suggest checking it out. If you want an interesting Kabbalah read – this may be a bit much for the Kabbalah center type.
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{ 65 comments… read them below or add one }
“No vigorous …”
So, how does he explain Friday night being “mitzvah night”? Should sex on Friday nights not be vigorous (as if that’s even possible)?
The intention of sex is not to massage – it’s to have children, right?
I think the rabonom discourage sex from being vigorous because then the intention to have children will be lost and it may become fun and fun-frum-sex shouldn’t be in the same sentence.
Not my Rabbanim. The halacha is that a man must satisfy his wife, and that means doing whatever it takes (which is sometimes vigorous … and sometimes gentle … and sometimes a combination of the two).
Another halacha is to procreate which we do as well at the same time.
I hold from the “guf neheneh miguf” (literally “body enjoying from body”) Rabbinic thought on the matter.
what’s the Jewish perspective on birth control?
Leead,
It’s forbidden unless you get special permission in extreme cases, such as where it would affect the mother’s mental, emotional or physical health if she were to get pergnant. Many Rabbis put an expiry date on these dispensations.
Methods used are usually IUD’s or pills, condoms are typically forbidden unless the woman can take the hormones.
What if the family doesn’t believe it can handle double digits of children?
Yochanan,
I think it’s dependant on whether or not there is a threat posed to the mother’s health, physical or emotional. Maybe the father counts as well, you’re better of checking with a real rabbi if you really want to know.
nvm, i asked moses
Probably better to take you halachic quesions to Moses than to Hesh & co.
It probably also falls under the same category as squeezing lemons.
Guffaw!
Love a good tongue in cheek remark. Thanks, C-maidel.
Remember kids when you masturbate God is watching you masturbate.
I have a question, if I watch someone masturbate that is considered wrong. Why should it be wrong? God can do it, God does it. And if I imitate the actions of God then I am being godly. Therefore, I should be considered good when I watch others masturbate. But people tell me it is wrong.
Every time you masturbate God kills a kitten.
Or is it the other way around?
You mean every time a kitten masturbates G-d kills a human?
…….Those Kittens are nothing but trouble.
Skeptic, you have a point. Never thought of that before.
That is some really messed-up logical reasoning, by any standards. The first mistake you made was to anthropomorphise G-d, suggesting that he is probably across the street with binoculars and a box of doughnuts. “And if I imitate the actions of God then I am being godly” Seriously? The medrash tells us that G-d does whatever he told us to do, but to assume that what you are doing is “good” only because it is within G-d’s power to do so is ludicrous.
It is so absurd, in fact, that i suspect it is a poorly-constructed joke, and as it is hard to convey inflection by writing i must have missed it.
It is a joke.
—
Though God can kill. God does kill in the Tanach. Why do you think that is justified?
It’s a good thing we’re allowed to… only men aren’t. It’s about time there was an advantage to being a woman.
There are so many more advantages to being a woman when it comes to Judaism. Tefilin, Talis, late to shul, talking in shul, beter food at shalom zachors and kiddushes, 3,000 dollar hair pieces…
oh if only my wife, and most frum women for that matter, would finger themselves. maybe they wouldn’t be so stressed out. ya think???
Light of Ephraim was written by a girl, so it’s meaningless anyway– kidding! But that does explain why it’s so penis hostile.
That said, if you masturbate without ever ejacutlating, you should be fine.
I am sure there is something wrong with rocking it tantric style – but if that floats your boat…
Intentionally producing an erection is assur in itself.
only if its not shaas mitzvah
This was the entire sex ed in my yeshivah. In 7th grade, the rebbe looked up and said: “Boys, don’t make yourselves hard”, and then went back into the gemara.
If anyone (male) recalls 7th grade, Mr. Wiener has a mind of its own…
Why would you want to give yourself blue balls?
Anyway, would it be considered masturbation if you dont finish?
I dont think you would be yoitze…
You really think you can masturbate with ejaculating, it will eventually be impossible if you do if like that for a few days ?
Yes, one can without.
No, it doesn’t become impossible.
Blue Balls
In an odd sort of way it makes sense- it seems to me that whatever you’re doing during the week that is not quite ideal (whether it involves sex or anything else) you’d want to be more careful about it on shabbos or yom tov, if only (1) to sanctify those days a little more and (2) establish a kind of beachhead so you can be halachic at least one day a week. Without describing my personal bad habits in detail, certainly there are certain non-frum things I do during the week that I try harder to avoid on shabbos or yom tov.
Having a very succesful blog and the potential to sell ads – $10,000
Being a talented and funny blogger- $10,000
Becoming a webstar on Facebook- $10,000
Admitting on the web and to the whole world that you masturbate……….priceless
For everything else there is Mastercard
“Admitting on the web and to the whole world that you masturbate……….priceless”
That sounds like we were in yeshiva – everyone denying they jerked off, but that never really explained why everyone had porn to hide in their cereal boxes.
or why everything in their sock drawer was always stuck together…
You commit only one sin by masturbating, while the yeshiva boys commits two sins: they’re all masturbating, and they’re all lying about it.
Not sure where you went to Yeshiva, LOL.
Hesh,
I know it gets hard but I don’t think it qualifies as a muscle. According to Kabbalah, one shouldn’t get it up for nothing, even if just by thought.
I guess nobody’s perfect…
Ummm Light of Efriam LOL.
Why would anyone think disguising a mussar sefer as a novel would turn out well???
Thats why you engage in oral sex on the sabbath. The motion of the tongue, lips and mouth is a gentler sensation and not massaging like a pumping fist. If you pay before or after shabbat, you can hire an escort to come help you even. All likuvod shabbat.
People often cite obscure sources describing the punishment for the sin of masturbation, and I think this is probably because it makes them feel better for sinning. If the people who think this is a sin have such crazy and specific ideas, then it must not be a sin at all!
The problem is, the Shulchan Aruch (and the Kitzur too!) says that this is the worst sin in the Torah. Now this is a mystery. Why should it be such a horrible sin?
Here’s one way to think about it. Masturbation may lead to a lot of other sins. First, men who masturbate are more likely to neglect their marital duties, which is a sin. Maybe an 18 year-old can masturbate several times a week and still do his marital duty several times a week, but not most of us. Second, not only is neglecting marital duties a sin, but it can damage the marital relationship, and make the woman feel insecure in the relationship. Porn addiction has definitely led to some divorces, but even a damage to the relationship can be very serious and cause a lot of suffering. Third, masturbating when the wife is niddah means that mikvah night will not feel special for the man, or probably for either person, which may harm the marriage and keeps the laws of family purity from fulfilling their main function. Fourth, by not performing the marital duty children who would otherwise be born are not born — this is not quite like murder but it is preventing a life from existing, so this is very serious. Fifth, masturbating can make men more likely to stare at other women (the sin of not guarding your ideas), because they’re used to looking at porn and because they want more masturbation fodder. Fifth, since according to Chassidus/ kabbala the main purpose of life is to remove ourselves from bad character traits and physical lusts and desires — the foremost among which, for men at least, is sex — and by masturbating we are doing the reverse: encouraging and increasing our desire for illicit sex. In fact, many of the holiest tzaddikim have emphasized the importance of not committing even the slightest sexual sin.
Just some thoughts about this mystery….
Or more likely there’s a simple explanation. The author of Shulan Aruch was a man of his time. Men of his time had some strange notions about sex and the Mystical Power of spooge. Shulan Aruch is an extended fatwa, a legal opinion. The Almighty didn’t dictate it. It’s only as good as the (fallible, imperfect) man who wrote it. And this particular man obviously had some pretty serious hangups.
If you’re jerkin’ your gherkin and shirkin’ your firkin it can cause problems. But is that really worse than abusing your wife, beating her down to a pitiful wreck, betraying your friends, murder or raping little children? Well, actually it is worse than baby-raping. Torah and Talmud treat that pretty lightly unless you’re the victim.
Nope. Put it down to primitive superstition, medieval levels of understanding about science and the guy’s particular quirks. Yeah, yeah. The pious will gibber “But it’s Shulan Aruch! Shulan Aruch!” The fact that you slavishly follow this set of legal opinions doesn’t mean the author is a Prophet. He has to be judged like a man which means he can be wrong. In this case he is.
If only this drosh was fit for a shabbos table, I’d bring it! Very nice thoughts.
This is pretty convincing for married men, but it may bolster the case for the young/unmarried because most of the sins listed relate to neglecting marital duties which wouldn’t apply to them. I’m sure there are other reasons why its a sin, but it does make it seem less serious for single guys or guys who can’t marry yet (Males are probably horniest the years they’re not fit to be married yet)
That’s why people used to get married soon after their bar mitvah. Can’t remember which talmudic Rabbi got married at 18, said it would have been infinitely better if he got married at 15 instead.
Doing the knuckle shuffle on the piss pump is normal for most frum teens today. Hormones are raging and casual dating is forbidden as well.
As for those that claim that all married men do it and those that don’t have something wrong with them, I say hogwash. Plenty of wives still put out even after they have a dozen kids, and most men can go 12-14 days without it (though it ain’t easy).
After so many kids, how can either partner feel anything? Unless there’s some sort of “Hung like a bekishe” saying I’ve never heard of.
Are you being obtuse or are you twisting what we’re saying on purpose?
1) The evidence is against you. People have spent a lot of time and money studying sex. The conclusions are universal and well supported by evidence. Men masturbate. Pretty much all of them. And so do women. All you are capable of saying is “Bullshit! I don’t care! LalalalaIcan’thearyou!”
2) Leaving that aside nobody is saying “Men jack off because their wives don’t put out.” Guys masturbate even if they have active sex lives with their partners. So do gals.
Nuran,
Most men aren’t Jewish, and many Jewish ones aren’t frum. That’s why the studies show that most men yank it.
If the same study was done on observant, married, frum men, I’m quite sure you’d see a drastic change in the numbers.
To summarize, there is no reason not to masturbate outside halacha. It’s considered normal and natural outside halacha. 99.9% of the world doesn’t follow halacha.
It’s that simple.
Pfft. Oh YY, what a load of crap. Masturbation is a normal and healthy process, particularly for the unmarried set. If the Shulchan Aruch (and the Kitzur too!) were written today, they’d reflect this.
huh?
I wouldn’t go so far to equate masturbation with loshon hara.
If you don’t masturbate, then you are not human or you’re a child molester
I ready for my hot steamy seaman bath in the world to cum
LOL
Mmm, a bath full of hot sailors. I’m in!!!
That’s one of the funniest puns I have ever heard.
I second that
Marcos,
Speak for yourself, don’t assume everyone is like you.
When you get to the next world, don’t drink the bubbles.
Not everyone. But the people who study this sort of thing – not me, thank G-d – pretty much confirm what we all know. Pretty much every intact man with a normal hormonal balance does it well into old age. Fetuses have been imaged doing it in the womb fer cryin’ out loud.
Not only do they say it’s normal, but some sort of fertility technique (pardon the pun) that flushes out old sperm. Frequency of ejaculation has been linked to a reduction of prostate cancer risk.
Anyone who thinks “You’re killing your children!!!!” obviously doesn’t understand sexual reproduction.
I think you meant to say sperm not semen, but in any event, a typical male ejaculate contains between 120 and 160 million sperm, so technically you are always “wasting” 99.9% of your sperm.
That must be some chase going on in the skies; maybe that explains why clouds are white.
Any woman who thinks their saintly bearded husband is not masturbating, is in complete denial. Do you really think that your husband is going for months on end while you go through the latter stages of pregnancy and birthing recovery without ejaculating? Really? All healthy heterosexual men masturbate, and if they don’t, you better be worried.
Let’s take Screamin’ Jay Hawkins as a practical upper limit for how many kids a man can have. His count was around a hundred. That means at least fifteen billion spermatazoa were “wasted” assuming he never did the deed except to have children and was like a sniper, every shot a hit. And if you believe that I have some shares in Bernie Madoff’s company for sale cheap.
“Wasting sperm” is not the reason for the prohibition, so all this is irrelevant. The fact is we don’t know the precise reason for the prohibition, as with many mitzvot. But I can think of many reasons for it that are much more convincing than the idea that you have wasted sperm. Just because somebody has argued for a mitzvah using an unconvincing argument (or that some people falsely claim, without any evidence, that all healthy men do it) doesn’t mean the mitzvah is not very real and important. In fact, the Shulchan Aruch says it’s the worst sin in the Torah.
YL, “Wasting seed” is precisely what the rabbonim and kabbalists yammer on about. At great length. The one time the Creator weighs in on it directly it’s all about refusal to impregnate, not playing solos in the skin flute.
Just out of curiosity, would the usage of male Chastity Belts (and I mean the decent ones, not the crappy leather ones) ensure that no yeshiva guys ever masturbate? That they can save it for their wives when not Niddah? Since we know we are supposed the take the strictest approach to guarding ourselves against averios, I wonder what the Gedolim would say about this?
Since a chastity belt or CBT device prevents an erection or ejaculation, I imagine it’s a good ol’ green light from the Gedolim. But, really more to the point, what happens if you’re involved in a BDSM relationship, and you’re busy whipping your male partner, and he ejaculates without being touched. Is that ok? What if the sub is a goy, and the Master is a Jew, and the sub ejaculates? Does the Jew take the blame? I feel like there are endless permutations with this.
We’re getting into serious BDSM territory here.
If that’s what floats your boat I’m not going to judge…
It’s ok if there’s an eiruv.
Unless you happen to hang out a window and take it from reshus hayachid to reshus haradim then we got issues