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Modern orthodox girls are for practice

They say that shiksas are for practice but if you really think about it, Modern Orthodox Girls are for practice, at least they are when you enter the world of folks who think that marrying a girl frummer than them will make them more frum it doesnt work in fact it usually backfires as in the case of at least 3 people I know who have gotten divorced because their wives were more religious than they were.

I am definitely not alone when I say that modern orthodox girls are for practice, countless folks from the got a hat for their bar mitzvah but havent worn it since crowd, hook up with modern girls. Go hit up any Jew party and chances are you will find a bunch of ex-yeshiva, wavering between frumkeit and narashkeit folks on the prowl for modern girls, but ask them who they want to marry, and most of the time they say someone who I on that cusp of modern orthodoxy and yeshivish.

That cusp is a post in itself, because there are so many folks that would never want to walk around with the badge of modern orthodox, but in no way do they resemble someone who is yeshivish. There is even a facebook club devoted to the subject, but let us not waver from the subject matter here.

I know some of you may see it as a double standard, that guys want a frummer girl to marry, but they are saying this while they are in the process of getting it on with more modern girls. I may be mistaken, but modern girls probably put out more than yeshivish ones, I know Im making assumptions, but isnt it true that all girls that wear pants and dont plan on covering their hair after they get married are whores? Well that what was I learned in yeshiva, and luckily I dont really believe that even though they tried to ram that point home hard no pun intended.

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  • i’ve actually done some research on religiosity of couples and their divorce rates for my dissertation, and i found that couples in which the husbands were MORE religious than their wives were about 2x more likely to divorce than couples with the same level of religiosity, while couples in which the husbands were LESS religious than their wives were about 7x more likely to divorce than couples with the same level of religiosity! The religiosity part wasn’t a huge part of my original paper, but this finding was so interesting that I’m thinking of writing a new paper on it.

    In fact I found that this “religiosity homogamy” (or lack thereof) explains about 10% of the overall divorce rate. 🙂

    • Mark

      7x more likely

      Probably because the wife, being so religious, refused to give BJ’s 🙂

      • spidey

        Real classy, douchebag. Funny too…

      • OrthoEbonyJewess

        Oh my!!!

      • Zvi Lampert

        Did you ever see a yeshivish chosson crying while walking down the aisle? It’s because he knows he’s never getting any more blowjobs.

      • MadMaxInJerusalem

        Actually, I would suspect the whole

        no-sex-for-12-to-14-days-per-month

        thing is what causes allot of tension when the woman is more religious than the man.

    • YY

      Was your study on Jews or non-Jews or both?

    • A. Nuran

      Fascinating.
      Looking back I realize that my wife became religious after I decided to become more so, and we keep our levels of observance pretty much the same. There’s almost certainly a tension-minimizing element there. Neither of us wants a mismatch in the relationship.

  • Yakov

    “….find a bunch of ex-yeshiva, wavering between frumkeit and narashkeit folks on the prowl for modern girls, but ask them who they want to marry, and most of the time they say someone who I on that cusp of modern orthodoxy and yeshivish…..”
    Hesh this is scary…you just described my adolescence self!!! well know i matured and i stand firm in my beliefs tho i still insist on her being a tad more religious than me!!!

    • Yakov

      Wow that even sounds stupid to me….

    • A. Nuran

      So it’s okay if you’re not quite as observant so long as you have someone holier to bump up against?

  • Devorah

    Maybe it depends on the community, but from the people I know these guys have no problem finding what they’re looking for within their own community. The same brooklyn girls who grow up to be their hot chanie wives start out as their slutty buddies, they just hide it whereas MO girls are not so secretive about it and fake shomer negiah in public.

  • John

    Hi Hesh im a big fan of your blog but im confused as to why you consider yourself a satirist or comedian. Out of the last 20 posts (ive read em all, im a big fan) 8 werent written by you. Of the 12 youve written, 11 werent attempts to be funny (i hope) just thoughts and musings on jewish-type stuff (ripping off music, bobby pins, banning fish etc… I especially enjoyed the post on tolerance/intolerance). Only one, the telz charoses was satire, though it wasnt funny (i guess though that is subjective maybe some found it funny).

    • It is definitely subjective – but I flow in and out of funny and non-funny moods. I haven’t been in a funny mood lately – at all, but to judge me me from 12 posts, out of 2,000 is hardly a good sampling. The bobby pins and the fish one were attempts – successful based on the link backs and emails praising them – but it’s all subjective.

      • Tefilinov

        I’m surprised so many people took “Go for the Ger” seriously. That was meant as semi-satire.

        • John

          obviously, but heshy doesnt get credit for it since he didnt write it. and i read through the comments on bobby pins and fish ban psots there was 1 that called it funny, there was praise, i like some posts too. but only one comment called either of those posts funny

          • John – you are forgetting that 99% of the people who read this blog never comment, but I get emails, facebooks, phone calls, tweets, link backs and buzzes from these people. If I based everything I did on my comments, I would have crawled into a hole already. I will try and bust out some funny stuff for you – but, if I need to force it I won’t do it.

            • I love your blog. Whether it’s funny or poignant. I offer you encouragement.

  • jude folly

    never mind the nay sayers, hesh, your comedy is a rage and am glad to read your more ‘academic’ or reflective posts as well.

  • From my experience ears ago, MO girls would kiss, make out somewhat, but wouldn’t have sex with you. Beis Yaakov rebels put out the most, and were the easiest to hook up with.

    • Actually chabad rebels put out the most

      • Yakov

        So true Hesh!!

      • NewYorker

        chabad put out the most. period. end of story. i’ve had all the types and chabad wins.

      • evanbaker

        yes they sure do! some are out and out sluts.

        • DanTheMan

          What does that make you? She is a slut and I am just fulfilling my needs?

  • Modern Whore-thodox

    Yes, I have seen many Modern girls fake shomer negiah in public. Just like the skank who intruded on my dinner date (I didn’t even get a word in edgewise the entire time while she crammed her fat face, spitting crumbs and talking like a pig) and got us outside so she could hug the guy I was with. Classy. Then I quickly realized that’s all I was– practice. Remind me never to date guys who were boinking someone else less than a month earlier.

    I have stopped hanging out with boys because every single one seems to be a putz, and it’s indicative that I am not ready to date.

    Also stepping away from the Modern crowd, because I’m tired of being expected to put out in order for a guy to want anything to do with me.

    • Party Jew

      Im sorry to hear that you had such an experience. I think that you just need to hang out with more mature guys. Frummies, even MO, tend to be pretty immature to begin with and all guys in their early 20s are babies. It gets better. I have mostly female friends and none of what you describe would ever apply to me or to my male friends. You just have to screen better and not put up with people’s shit. People treat you with the respect that you demand.

      • Modern Whore-thodox

        That’s my problem, is that I put up with people’s shit and I’m made to feel like a bitch if I don’t take it and act like I enjoy it. But I’ll be honest, I can’t trust guys who have all these female friends and then the scarce male friend. I’m lucky that most of my guy friends have backed off since I became religious and so I don’t have much interaction with them any more.

        My friend said I became soft and let people walk all over me now that I’m becoming more frum, and she’s probably right. I once heard that you end up attracting people similar to you, so when I meet loser after loser I come to the conclusion I need to work on myself.

        • take responsibility for your own feelings. trust your gut, never live on crumbs and don’t let anyone treat you like you wouldn’t want a child of yours to be treated. (not that I know anything about relationships)

        • NewYorker

          take it bitch. just take it and shutup.

          • Yesh Lecha

            It’s sad what kind of nasty, sick things people like you say.

        • evanbaker

          holy shit ur depressed. time to get back into the hooking up seen i think. 😉

    • Modern Whore-thodox, Love your name!

      What you describe isn’t related as much to your affiliation as to the guys you’ve met being jerks.

      Don’t paint with too broad a brush, but, definitely use your experience to prepare and protect yourself.

      Good luck

  • tesyaa

    I used to live in a place where the women were all extremely modern – think EXTREMELY – and the men were less so; some were even Shabbos hat wearers, learned daf yomi, etc. We called them mixed marriages.

    • Anonymous

      good post 🙂
      a compliment was due and I served it
      made me laugh 🙂

      • BettyBlueBettyBlue

        I second that 🙂

  • kissmei’mshomer

    Modern Whore-thodox: I’m sorry if you’ve had bad experiences, but I can’t help but think that your experiences may have reflected specific people rather than the “Modern crowd.” I consider myself MO and have dated plenty of MO guys and have never had any of them try to touch me or get me to “put out.” And I’m not talking about the MO guys who are essentially yeshivish types with black knitted kipas. 🙂

  • Ilana

    What exactly do you mean by “practice”? While everyone varies in their observance of negiah, those whose practice is more lenient hardly deserve to be characterized as “practice”. We’re not sluts for you to use and discard in favour of your pure and perfect frum wife f the future- who, by the way, you’re unlikely to get if you continue to characterize women who observe negiah more leniently than you negatively.

    • Yochanan

      It comes from the saying “Shiksas are for practice”. Basically, guys who will date and “practice” with Gentiles, but want to marry in the Tribe. Really scummy, if you ask me. I don’t think they’re any better than those who marry their non-Jewish girlfriends. At least, those guys are consistent.

      I think there should be a new phrase: “Practice is for pussies.”

      • Anonymous

        hi there,
        you say your name its Yochanan but….you comment suggests that you are female…..

        • A. Nuran

          I’m demonstrably male and completely agree with Yochanan.

    • NewYorker

      you are sluts. all of you are sluts. and i will use you again and again, until i get married to the perfect wife.

      • Out of Towner

        That’s why you are not married yet.

      • Tovah

        Your are a despicable human being.

    • Talking to me?

      The title was a joke – the topic isn’t.

      I’ll have you know that I find that chabad rebels are way more likely to put out than modern girls. I find modern girls to be prudish.

    • evanbaker

      ur wrong. flat out. it happens time and time again. guys hook up and use the sluts to practice and enjoy then frum out a teeny bit and get a trophy chanie wife from flatbush.

      • evanbaker

        i was referring to ilana

  • I know I am way too addictedto facebook, but i dont have much time right now, so I am just going to say:

    like

  • old fashioned modern ortho

    Moot point since Modern Ortho of yesteryear is a dying breed. Look at old pictures of Young Israel fundraisers where none of the women covered their hair and most exposed a fair amount of bare arm. In contrast, look at the grandchildren of the people in the photos .The Modern Orthos I grew up with are Yeshivish or some other form of Right Winger now. I knew Boro Park girls who wore bullet proof tznius outfits at home in their neighborhood and dressed and behaved in a very unfrum fashion if they knew that they would not run in to people from their chevra. In retrospect, they were being used for practice. There is much to be said about being centerist.

  • Sara

    Its funny to me how people like you (and me I guess) completely think you can dissociate sexuality with relationships. These guys go into it thinking that and usually fall for the modern ortho girl and then get rejected by her. That’s been my experience 🙂

    • Sara, what do you mean? Are you saying that both parties go into it with the expectation that it’s just sex? Are you suggesting that Modern Orthodox women are better equipped to handle “just sex” not being a serious relationship?

  • cay

    Modern Whore-thodox: “I have stopped hanging out with boys because every single one seems to be a putz, and its indicative that I am not ready to date.”

    That cracked me up. Because when you are ready to date every boy will still seem to be a putz even then. They all are, except the one you fall in love with…

    • Candice

      “Modern Whore-thodox”? You are mean and sick. What kind of a hateful person says such things?!

  • RIZZO

    very funny and on target! I found abandoning eden’s research very interesting. Hesh, can you let her post her paper up here?

  • R’ Daniel

    I have more respect for the guy who marries a Non-jewish girl than the guy who thinks ANY woman can be objectified and used for practice. That is wrong in all aspects. At least with intermarriage, there is a level of respect and care present. Also, the Taliban-style measures seen in our communities will only breed more rebellion and perversion, although I don’t necessarily mind a rebellious frummie girl. (If you know any, send them my way).

  • ipitythefoo

    Here is my basic experience with Jewish men:

    There are yeshivish men who ignore me, which offends me somewhat.
    There are nice chabadniks I hang out with, frequently touch me in a not offensive way, but would never dare to get sexual physically or verbally.
    There are all varieties of Ultra O guys who are off the derech and seem to think they have the right to ‘whip it out’ in exchange for dinner and a movie. I don’t know who’s teaching these guys about sex, but they are so ridiculous it doesn’t even offend me anymore.
    There are nice modern orthodox boys, who are willing to set up a nice date because they are decent gentlemen.
    There are nice modern orthodox boys, who are willing to set up a nice date because they think they might get lucky.

    Quite frankly, I think that who a guy was ‘practicing’ with in his youth isn’t all that important to me anymore. I’m pretty much just a ‘Be with ME, when your with ME’ sorta gal.

  • Frumsatire Fan

    I’m interested in the idea of marrying someone who’s more frum than you. It sounds ideal, really: you teach me stuff and encourage me to be a bit less sloppy, and in return we have sex. Sounds great! On the other hand, it reminds me of a friend’s definition of Conservative shuls: a bunch of people who hire a rabbi to be Jewish on their behalf.

  • RB

    To all the males out there,
    I think that its kind of disgusting how some people here categorize girls. Oh “Chabad puts out more” or “Beis yaacov rebels do”. If you think of girls as a category- that is a problem in itself. It shows that we are all objects to you- and by you I mean perverted men. Perverted because you are ruining something beautiful by making it about something that is just physical. Take it, it might be somewhat about that but it is not everything. If it was people would not try so hard to find the “right” one. I had great chemistry with a guy and we broke up because we did not connect on other levels. Other levels matter.

    I think it is stupid and an excuse to say its about practice. Stupid because if its about practice- you have loads of time to do that when you are married. Years and years to get as perfect as you can. An excuse because you are covering up the real reason. The real reason is that you want variety it is the “spice of life”. Marriage is boring for the best of us- Being with the same person all the time. Get it out when you are young, they say. I think this is a real and valid reason-that I don’t agree with or live by- but why can’t people just admit it? Say honestly to themselves and others, I am breaking the torah because I want to. And if you don’t want to- if you cannot say that- then maybe you should evaluate your lifestyle and actions. It’s not all about guilt, but I believe that you have to be able to live with yourself.
    If you can’t live with yourself can you truly expect others to?

    This is a question that has been bothering me for some time. Why do people break the torah? How can people randomly hook up? I am not condemning – I just don’t understand it. I have had loads of opportunities myself- but each time I said no. I was strong.Because- life is about purpose, missions,and meaningfulness. Everything has a reason. Why then act without reason? Why do something that makes no sense? That can affect your sexual experience later?

    And if you disagree then why do you want pure woman who have had no sexual experience prior to you? Can you really after all that practice still feel inferior about your prowess?

    • RB fan

      wow! Well said!

      • Anonymous

        I agree with you. You sound like a really smart person.

  • Curious Georgia

    I wonder if Modern Orthodox guys are also used for practice by frum girls. Actually I know of someone who had a modern guy for a boyfriend and then dumped him when she decided to become frummer. In fact, there were several of girls who associated and perhaps dated MO guys until they found the kollel guy of their dreams and decided to straighten out from then point on. I find this all to be despicable. Lets face it; Jews use each other for their own personal gratifications one way or another regardless of their religious affiliations. Thus is nature of man ( and woman ).

  • DK

    Any woman who believes the world is more than 6,000 years old is a complete and utter slut.

  • Karl Nieder

    Your lot is so self-absorbed and twisted you can actually normalise such phrases and concepts as “shiksas are for practice.”

    Keep it up and the tide will have turned far enough that the rest of humanity, which you stubbornly refuse to include yourselves among, will accept the idea that Jews are for practice. TARGET PRACTICE, that is.

    • If you’re Palestinian they are…

    • BiggestFish

      Karl Nieder, you are a little pro-palestinian anti-semite. I have looked you up online. But you died 5 months later, maybe that is poetic justice. Good riddance.

  • ruve

    this is stupid. Just marry someone who is like you in religion, and youll be fine

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