My newly created friend from LA a Rabbi comedian by the name of Rabbs, is convinced that Jews in Los Angeles deserve out of town status. After a week spent in LA I didn’t need much convincing. The Jews of LA don’t have an attitude close to anywhere on the east coast and they think and act in a completely different way.
I noticed that Jews from the LA area do not demand your last name upon introduction, aren’t hung up on Jewish geography, give firm hand shakes and look you in the eye when in conversation. They are friendlier, nicer and are super proud and knowledgable of their city – but not in that boasting way that New Yorkers do it. One of my main pet peeves about people in the west is that they are too nice to be real and up front with you the way New Yorkers and people from the east coast are, but people in LA have the ability to do this and I was kind of shocked at how good it feels for someone to be blunt with you.
Now I am sure some of you are wondering about this out of town thing, it seems a bit geocentric to call everyone that lives some place other than the east coast “out of town”, but that’s precisely what it is. The term “out of town” is used mostly by the black hat community to describe people from outside the New York area, but it goes deeper than that.
What on earth is out of town? In recent years, the term out of town has begun to be used by more modern folks, but originally it was used for shidduchim to describe someone that was a bit more open minded and modern – implying that folks who lived beyond the hustle and bustle of New York weren’t as frum or as closed minded as New Yorkers. The problem is that the term has been used in recent years beyond that of its original use to describe location. Now the term has been hijacked to describe folks that are open minded – by saying someone has an “out of town mentality”.
I have heard people describe folks who live in Far Rockaway as out of town types, which means the term really has no worth anymore. In my mind, out of town is reserved for folks that you can tell right away are not from New York metro area. In my mind “In Town” is the entire Tri-State area.
One of the problems with giving Jews from LA out of town status is that they could easily adopt the New York mentality. So while in LA they are nice and friendly, once they get suckered into moving to the east in order to get married, they tend to adopt the east coast way of life.
-->
{ 34 comments… read them below or add one }
first comment. LA is too big to be out of town. Just my $0.02.
So is out of town based on size? Because there are big cities that have an out of town feel – like Dallas or Houston.
Anywhere out of brooklyn is out of town. Ive had some people from queens whine that they want to be considered in-towners but they are not.
The size of the Jewish community is what determines whether it’s out of town or not. I don’t think either Dallas or Houston have a very sizeable frum population, but I could be wrong. The “out of town feel” you mentioned is based on how tight knit the community is-which directly correlates to size.
out of town is anywhere you have to drive at least 20 min to get kosher food
That’s a rather generous definition, as it includes pretty much the entire inhabited United States; OU products can be found easily in the middle of nowhere, Alabama, for instance.
Did you mean “kosher restaurant?” Still rather generous.
Out of town and proud of it!
Especially on the beach…
I’d love to check out the shul on the beach. From your blog it seems to be very friendly and have a real community approach. Which makes it out of town. And the location is incredible. Maybe someday…
Thanks. I appreciate your kind words.
We have plenty of hospitality, so when you’re interested, just let me know and we’ll hook you up!
Anything not “New York” (the attitude, not the place), is OOT.
In my opinion, Out of Town is everywhere BESIDES for the 5 boros of NYC, Long Island, Monsey, Lakewood (other areas in Jersey can go either way). I think thats it. So Rochester, NY is OOT as is LA.
“In town” is Flatbush, Boro Park, Williamsburg, and Crown Heights. The rest of Brooklyn and Manhattan isn’t “in town” but it’s not exactly “out of town.” Everything else, including Queens, Staten Island, and the Bronx, is “out of town.”
“In town” is when the shadchan doesn’t mention where your date is from as though it’s part of their personality.
Is it me or are Frummies the only people who say “Manhattan” in casual speech. Everyone else, including myself, casually refers to it as “The City”. Said “City” excludes Outer Boroughs.
Its not just Frummies, but also (temporary) transplants from OOT =)
Saying “The City” for Manhattan is the manifestation of a social and moral disability that is recognized by everyone else in the English-speaking world who cares. Perhaps some frummies say “Manhattan” for Manhattan because they don’t have those disabilities, or because Brooklyn, rather than Manhattan, is what they consider to be the center of the universe.
I have no interest living in the shtetls of Boro Park or anywhere else that receives snow. There is a better way to live and we are living it.
I think @Mark summed it up quite well….it all depends on the attitude…
and yes Heshy, once you move here you pretty much get suckered into the “in-town” category! (if it happened to me it can happen to anybody!)
if one was born outside of the five boroughs of nyc , monsey , teaneck, lakewood,passaic/clifton you are in town . im from out of town originally and i am proud to say . even after all of these years of living (if you can call it that) in new york i refuse to call myself a new yorker. the flip side is that when i was growing up int the midwest one could always spot a new yorker. it is in the blood. we would always count the minutes until they returned to their new york home.
oops, i goofed in my comment . i meant that if you are born inside the five boroughs of nyc, monsey, teaneck , lakewood , passaic/ clifton you are in town.
I would like to know how Lakewood is in town, but Baltimore isn’t when Baltimore has a top-notch yeshivah, rebbeim of tremendous stature, serious learning, countless shuls, and mikvehs. If Monsey is in town then how much more so Baltimore is in town.
I think if you had spent time in the Fairfax/La Brea area of LA, you would have gotten a much more NY feel.
I live in that area and I am from NY. It is nothing like NY.
I live there too and it seems like a lot of the Jews living there are from the NY area.
There are plenty. But they LEFT NY. (Like me…)
If people consider Baltimore to be out of town then LA would definitely fit that description also.
beverly/la brea area, where i’m from, sucks. its worse than anywhere in ny. the ‘chareidi’ and ‘modern’ communities are for the most part very separate (schools, shuls), so if you’re in one community, you’re like stuck. there’s no effort at all to get to know people from outside their closed shell and as a child, in chareidi toras emes, it was frowned upon. yeshivish la people like to think they ‘different’ and more open minded than their ny counterparts but as an insider, its not true. their not worse, but just as judgemental. i moved away from home as soon i could.
You’ve obviously never been in NY.
Beverly La Brea is so far from what NY is like. Just be thankful that you didn’t grow up in NY. I’ve lived in both.
Far Rockaway used to be suburban. People knew each other. It was a very laid back place. I don’t think it’s that way anymore. Too many “Brooklyn” people moving in and an independent gradual move towards increased “black-hattedness” combined to change the feel of the neighborhood.
“I have heard people describe folks who live in Far Rockaway as out of town types”
I take that as a compliment! While it is true that Far Rockaway isn’t the same as it was 20 years ago, It is still MUCH friendlier than Flatbush or BP. Wouldn’t it be nice if all NY Jews HAD to live out of town for a year? To learn to say Good Shabbos to EVERY Jew you see? Even if you don’t know him, or he dresses different than you do?
its generally known that the “in town places” are the NY metro area which includes teaneck, englewood, fair lawn etc. however farther places like cherry hill are quite out of town. places like Miami/Hollywood/Boca are not out of town but places more up north like orlando and jacksonville are. as far as Cali goes LA is “in town” but NoCal is so out of town. and anything southern like atlanta and memphis although big cities are in fact out of town. the same goes for the midwest. while St Louis is a huge city its so out of town
Here in chasid-town we have a saying:
kidshu brich hu sits on his kisse hakovod, his eyes focussed on Kiryas Yoel, and enjoying his creation of the universe. Every here and then he makes sure not to omit Williamsburg, and do there a quick scan. Boro Park, only occasionally. Flatbush, forgetabouit, doesn’t even recognize it.
For us, out of town means, out of KJ, Willi, Monsey or BP.
we can go either way down here as far as in town/ out of town. we have many transplanted New Yorkers who definitely contribute an unfortunate in-town element, but most natives such as myself would take great offense at being lumped in with brooklyn in any way.
My good friend has professed to me that when she used to go to Bais Ya’akov conventions that were located in her hometown of Detroit, the Brooklyners would still refer to the natives as “out of towners” even though they were NO LONGER IN BROOKLYN and thus THEY were the OUT OF TOWNERS! I’ve told her that’s how it rolls in Brooklyn; we take our Brooklyn with us wherever we go, and even in Israel we use the term “out of town” to describe anyone from outside.
For the record, having only been born in Brooklyn but raised in NJ most of my life, I use the looser definition of “In Town” also including Monsey, New Skver (hell, the rest of Westchester and Rockland Counties), The Five Towns, Queens, Far Rock, Most of New Jersey (Lakewood, yes; Cherry Hill, as they consider “Philadelphia” to be “the City”, No), The Bronx, and of course Manhattan. Sorry, but Baltimore and Rochester are too far removed to considered “in town” for me. It’s not just the drive, but I do find that people from said places do have a noticeably different mentality. Like Queens, The 5 Towns, and Far Rock. still are passable for Brooklyn for the most part.
sorry, screwed up the hyperlink. I meant to link to http://righteousrasha.blogspot.com, but somehow made the rest of the post a hyperlink. can that be fixed?