Has anyone ever noticed the difference between what black and Hispanic people tell their kids about drugs and what white people tell their kids?
I was listening to this white Jewish author talk about what she tells her kids. It’s okay to do marijuana, she says. She did it. So why can’t they do it, too? As long as they don’t sell it, she’s fine with them smoking up. I mean, didn’t she spend like most of college high anyway?
Then, in the OH NO SHE DIDN’T moment of the evening, this white girl goes on to crack jokes about DARE (say it with me now y’all…DRUG ABUSE RESISTANCE EDUCATION!). In the 80s, it was all about DARE keeping kids away from drugs, gangs and violence. But she says most of those kids ended up mixed up in that stuff anyway.
Girl, well, if they didn’t, who would be around to sell your kids drugs? You gotta keep the status quo, you know? Because you know how white people are about their marijuana. It’s like Starbucks. They can’t live without their fix.
Full disclosure: My aunt’s a cop. The only dirt brown cop for miles sometimes. So you know she wears her badge up high so none of her white coworkers busts a cap in her ass during office hours. Thanks to my dear old auntie, I’ve still got DARE pencils and t-shirts coming out of my ass. When the Pictionary pencils are running low, I pull out DARE pencils from 1985.
You see, when my aunt talked to me about drugs, she kept it simple. Drugs are bad. Drugs will kill you. And if drugs don’t, I will kill you.
Some of my friend’s moms kept it even simpler. They just smacked yo’ ass the hell up! Because black people and Hispanic people don’t be playing around about giving their children that all too necessary beat down.
But in LA, like every white person I know wants to own a dispensary. You know what I’m talking about if you’ve been to Venice Beach lately where for every Rastafarian beret store; they now have three marijuana dispensaries. THREE.
Because you know what happens when white people want to sell drugs. They make it legal.
Aliza Hausman is a Dominican-American Latina and Orthodox Jewish convert (Jewminicana for short!), freelance writer, blogger (at “Memoirs of a Jewminicana”) and speaker.
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{ 42 comments… read them below or add one }
I haven’t compared different racial/ethnic groups in how they talk about drugs their kids.
However, the legalization of marijuana (which i support) has more to do with people being politically active than with skin color.
They are all about the medicinal marijuana where I live – they have clubs and apothecaries it’s like weed fever.
where do you live?
northern California
At the old house I used to live at on Meridian Ave. in San Jose, a block down from it a house was turned into a commercial Medical Marijuana Wellness center. This was in a residential neighborhood!
This white Jewish mother told her children she would “break their heads” if they ever went near that crap. So I guess me and your aunt have alot in common.
White boy here. Parents laid down no drugs rule very clearly, one infraction and you’re out. And I grew up in the 60′s and 70′s when life was so much more relaxed in that regard.
And I don’t think the drug legalization issue is related to race. It’s related to recognizing that what we’ve done in the past just doesn’t work.
Include me in the white background category. My drug education was a little different than described, though. My parents were both pretty big into pot back in the day, but I have very clear memories of the “drugs are bad. Drugs will kill you. And if drugs don’t, I will” speech. I’m 29 years old, and I still believe that my dad would take me out if he caught me with anything like that.
When I was 25, he found cigarettes in my car. I was lucky to make it out alive. (Of course, this was after his mother and one of his sisters died of lung cancer, and another one has since then).
My drug education was from all those DARE commercials on the disney afternoon. My best friends from school all started smoking at 11 and 12 but I was always scared of the stuff.
We had DARE and that kind of thing at school, too, but I never felt like it was sufficient or persuasive. To me, it always seemed like something the adults put together to make themselves feel better. Of course, nobody ever really paid attention to it.
People should be very careful about marijuana. People act like it’s just like alcohol, even safer. But it’s not true. I know people who’ve developed major psychological problems from pot, including frequent panic attacks. There’s also very convincing scientific evidence that using pot makes people more likely to develop psychosis and schitzophrenia (they ruled out the possibility that those with tendencies toward mental illness are somehow more likely to use drugs). And it’s not true that those people were going to get those diseases anyway — everyone has some degree of susceptibility and the experiences one has makes a big difference for how and if those genes are expressed. Pot also frequently causes paranoia and anxiety even among people who don’t develop more serious disorders like Drug-Induced Anxiety Disorder or Hallucinogenic Persisting Perceptual Disorder (which is usually caused by other drugs but can be caused and/or worsened by pot). Just because you’ve done pot before and it hasn’t had any obvious effects doesn’t mean it won’t in the future. You never know what’s going to happen the next time — so why risk such a precious thing as your mental health?
Judaism offers many ways to get high — alcohol, fasting, prayer, singing, brotherly love, meditation, etc. We need to stick to our tradition and stay away from drugs like marijuana, even if it seems like everyone in California is into it.
So are you saying Alcohol which blatantly kills many people every year – and marijuana which doesn’t – is better?
Based on your paragraph it seems like weed is much worse than alcohol or cigarettes which have proven causes of death – while the latter is only theory.
Other than Dina Malkhuta Dina, how does Judaism prohibit marijuana?
I’m not certain that “Judaism” prohibits marijuana.
If you wanted to put it in the “sin” category…. off the top of my head:
Health concerns. (Jews are required to protect their health.)
A “fence” from sexual immorality. (People who are high are much more likely to be susceptible to sex acts.)
For men, Bitul Torah. (For those religious enough, any activity that prevents a guy from learning is suspect.)
Danger to others. (Keeping in mind that humans are “always” responsible for their actions. They are liable for anything they break. Even if they were drunk or stoned.)
I don’t think Judaism prohibits it. In fact, “Kanabus” is mentioned all over the place (Rambam, Shulchan Aruch), and although it’s in a hemp / material making context, I can’t imagine no one knew that the stuff will get you buzzed.
Knowing how widespread and sacred wine was before they knew anything about distilling, and that many great people in the Tanach actually got drunk, I have no reason to believe ingesting or smoking weed would be an aveira, as it isn’t any more harmful than cigarettes when used once in a while.
As for dina demalchuta, that all depends where you live. In some countries only possession is illegal, not ingestion, others like Holland allow possession and sale as well.
Rav moshe asurs it on three counts of isurei deorissa you can find the tshuva in the igras moshe
Shoeless,
Last time I read Rav Moshe’s psak there were 3 issues.
1) Dina demalchuta – which the question here clearly excluded.
2) Kibud av – If one’s parents would be distressed by finding out such behaviour about their kids – This assumes both that the parents were actualy against drug use and also found out.
3) The danger of dealing with drg dealers – Back in the days of that psak, seeing a dealer meant going into some slum district or projects buildings that would actually put your life in danger by being there. In this day and age of beepers, cell phones and “classy” dealers that make home deliveries, it clearly doesn’t apply either.
The psak didn’t actually deal with the direct isue at all. Were one to live on his own on a farm where he had his own stash growing for personal use in a country where it’s legal or tolerated, would he still be oiver?
OK, I was off on the dinah demalchuta being attributted to R. Moshe, it seems that he was more woried about drug addicts killing and stealing to get their fix, which is also not the case with most casual Marijuana users these days.
He also felt it might fall under “Kedoshim tihyu”, but that is really a very broan blanket prohibition that is highly debatable.
Here is a Q&A I found:
http://ohr.edu/ask_db/ask_main.php/89/Q1/
Still doesn’t answer the question of a casual user growing his own stash…
I somehow remember him entertaining the possibility that it is mekalkel the guf. But then, he admits that this is still debatable, so he brings up the “ben sorer umoreh” thing.
I also remember him entertaining the possibility that getting high may hamper your ability to learn torah and do mitzvot, and that is assur.
Am I remembering incorrectly?
I think Rav Shlomo Carlebach put it the best when he told a student of his (when he saw him sparking) that he would approve if it helped him get closer to God, but since that particular student had a hard time staying awake during lessons as it is, Shlomo could not approve. Of course, I’m pretty sure Shlomo did not disapprove of it across the board; only when it was being mekalkel!
Ghotti,
I would hardly refer to Shlomo Carlebach as a halachic authority. Not saying that he wasn’t a great personality though.
Anyway, once you start getting into things that are bittul Torah or hamper your ability to perform Torah and mitzvos, you can ban TV, movies, radio, newspapers, sports, and everything that isn’t directly related to learning or condusive to Mitzvos.
It’s funny how people try to find way to turn the Torah into a politically correct entity. In a culture where weed is illegal, these opinions twist and turn to find a way to match the Torah to local law.
What if weed were perfectly legal and sold everywhere just like beer? Do you think all these rabbis would be jumping the gun with absurd comaprisons? My guess is that it would be just as popular as Heineken at a shalom zachar.
What about “Gat” which is still used today by some of the Eidot?
Funny thing about Qat is that Islam strictly prohibits it, but it’s still very widespread in Yemen, as Qat has been in their culture since long before Muhammed went up that mountain. In fact, I’m told, there are parts of Yemen where if you’re offered Qat from someone who’s from a higher class than yourself and you refuse, you can be put to death for insulting them! So much as the religion is against it as much as it’s against other intoxicants (alcohol, hashish, et al), it’s still quite widespread.
I was actually once having a convo with an Imam at my college who was trying to educate people about Islam. The Imam mentioned that he’s from Yemen. So I asked him if he chews Qat. At first, he looked taken aback, like ‘how does this white boy know about that?’ He admitted to me that he grew up around it, that almost all his family and childhood friends do it, but that as an Imam, he can’t.
What is the law concerning Qat in Israel? I know in America, it is considered a Schedule A substance (same category as Heroin), so there would be an issue of Dina Malchuta here. I know that in England it’s legal.
The first two things you said are correct but if you look at the tshuva you will clearly see that you are over on bensorer oomoreh wich is huge because that basically means anything that is addicting (coffee) would be asur i don’t understand it one hundred percent but you should ask your local orthodox rabbi if thats your thing of course.
Ben Sorer umoreh has nothing whatsoever to do with weed. In fact, the chachamim said that we never had a case of ben sorer umoreh because of the complexities of what the sin entails.
To name a few, the kid had to be between 13 and 13.5 years old, drink a log of wine and eat a huge amount of meat that was between raw and cooked which he would have purchased with money stolen from his parents after being warned not too, all within a couple minutes at the doorstep of his parents house.
Reb Moshe was asked about drug use in general, not weed in particular. His comparison to a ben sorer umorah stealing because of his gluttony or addiction may very well fit the bill for a heroin or crack addict, but not your everyday shmo who tokes every once in a while.
Judging from the way I’ve seen peope drunk on Simchat Torah, Purim, farbrengens, and all other festive occasions, I’ve very highly doubt there is any aveira invloved with occasionally smoking up.
Only thing I can think of is the possible chillul Hashem if one were to get busted for possession or D.U.I.
So, you hear one white parent say it’s ok and you make a generalization like that? I think that’s worse than getting upset because someone calls a Mexican a Mexican.
While I usually find myself disagreeing with you, I’m with you on this one.
If said white woman was a from a more conservative background like a Chasidic rebetzin or an Evangelical, would she have the same view?
I used this one parent as an example as I later note, I was in LA when I wrote this “stand-up comedy” routine and everyone was talking about marijuana (either because they were getting into dispensaries or taking advantage of the dispensaries whether or not they actually had any illnesses they needed to remedy through marijuana). I even caught some white Jews smoking up on Shabbat. It was kinda surreal. I juxtaposed that to my experiences with my Hispanic family. My friends in the stand-up comedy class who were Jews had very different skits about drugs and I wanted to throw in my crazy two cents.
I don’t know. It seems kinda racist to me.
And it’s not funny.
Aliza,
I read your blog, and really enjoy your observations on dancing between, in, and amongst cultures.
Reading this reminded me of how on your blog you have previously responded to certain people encouraging you to stop covering your hair if it causes you such pain and difficulty. You said something I interpreted as, Jews by birth have the privilege of being able to adopt or disregard a wide variety of practices without people questioning their inherent Jewishness. They don’t risk their lives being as externally defined by these practices, or lack-thereof, as much as Jews by choice, who are in a more vulnerable position in their communities.
I find myself wondering if there is a similar sense of privilege and insulation amongst some white people who are able to engage in drug-taking behaviors, and publicly act cavalierly about it, without feeling these actions are at much risk of defining their lives, such as with academic and professional opportunities. And if you are pained to think of the consequences related to drugs (around gangs and violence) for some people and communities without this insulation and privilege.
Something like, Jews-by-birth can observe Jewish practices or not and still be considered Jewish because they are not already fighting prejudice within the Jewish community, and whites can take drugs or not and not be as at much risk of it tainting their lives because they are not already fighting prejudice and discrimination? And both of these scenarios are unjust? Or maybe you were just noticing a very different attitude and missing a sense of shared reality.
Always appreciate your writing.
Yup, you pretty much summed it up for me. It was very strange to me to be in LA surrounded by so many whites and white Jews who were cavalier about doing drugs whereas in NYC (in my family, schools, etc.) amongst mostly poor blacks and Hispanics, we talked about drugs in conjunction to issues of poverty, drug abuse, gang violence, etc. Of course, I know white friends who don’t do drugs and I have black and Hispanic friends who did. I exaggerated for effect. But really, reading this 6 months after writing it for a class is just OMG so embarrassing. I am definitely not cut out to be the Hispanic Chris Rock or the Dominican George Lopez.
But thanks for deconstructing what I was going through when I wrote this.
My wife got through four years of Reed College without doing anything stronger than coffee, mirablie dictu. When her parents had the Drug Talk with her it was along the lines of “Yes, we smoked pot a little back then. It’s a lot like stuffing your head with cotton batting. You aren’t missing anything.”
She thought “If my (boring, old) parents said it was a waste of time how much fun could it be?”
Full disclosure…
I’ve been dosed a couple times – acid – but never willingly taken any illegal drugs. That said, we’d be a lot better off if people smoked herb instead of drinking alcohol
I am white and I’ve never done illegal drugs-not even weed. I don’t remember what, if anything my mother ever said about it. Although, I think she wouldn’t have had that.
Sassy posts are funny. I can imagine the finger waving, the hand on the hip, and the swagger.
i still dont understand why its even considered a drug. its a natrual herb that can contain seeds. so since its contains seeds and we learned how to use it. do herbs in general contain seeds other than marijuana? last i rememeber a drug is more like an extraction or composition of 1 or more substances. why is it clasified as such? why can they just accept the worlds reality and understand the differences found within. smoking weed never harmed anyone and if they say its a gateway drug isnt alchahol the first drug anyone really tries?
Come on now, are you really so naive to think that marijuana “never harmed anyone?” Be honest now. Maybe it’s my old age talking (just turned 30), but I’m pretty sure everyone here on this list who hasn’t grown up on an island unto himself/herself knows at least ONE person who smokes/has smoked too much weed, and as a result of it f.cked up their lives.
The fact that “it’s natural” doesn’t cut it either. Cyanide is natural as well! Just because something exists in nature, doesn’t mean it’s good for you. If you would like, you can do a Google search, and you will find plenty of “natural substances” have made their way on the list of contraband substances: just to name a few, Coca (where Cocaine is extracted from), Qat, Peyote, Psilocybin (“shrooms”), Opium, Salvia, etc.
If you really want to know, e-mail me privately (funkyfishy@aol.com), I can go on for a long time about this.
Cannibis, like most things in life are defined more by the person then by the actual substance. it is a relative medium. one man can smoke pot and it consumes his life money and everthing, one man can drink alchol and it destroys a family on the road. pot is illegal, so don’t do it in the US. period.
but its not the same way in every country so that being said, it is relative to the context of where each man is. i can drink, because i don’t ever crave a drink, i don’t NEED to drink. for a man that MUST have a drink, that would ruin his life for a drink that becomes a thing from the sitra achra for him, but not for me. same with weed. there is nothing verboten about it. but if you spend all your time, and money trying to get high then you can ruin your life. and that is verboten.
that being said, pot has a huge stigma attached to it, and i must say when i here of people smoking pot i think they are low lives, i loose massive repect for them, probably because society dictates they are low lives. and in reality most of my friends growing up that did smoke pot and still do are mostly low lives.( though there are exceptions) The only people that i do not look at as low lives are people that use pot for religious purposes. ie Rasta men and hindu’s etc… it gives the user to me some dignity. also medical. but the local pot head that works at the record store, i do not respect, the middle age man that smokes pot with his other middle management WASPY buddies at some party is a d- bag looser. he might as well to me get a gay-wad ear ring.
with such a stigma, in order to keep your piety, and your goy kadosh status with goyim that might use that as a point to condem good jews, because its illegal or just because of the stigma, then i recommend not doing it.
on a side note, in high school i was constantly around people that drank and smoked pot. i smoked up like three times when i was 14, and did not feel the so called “buzz” that all others felt, and said to myself this shit is stupid, these morons are weak minded and feable, and i am not going to do drugs. ( oddly it did not stop me from selling it and other things) but i did not use, and i never really drink much, have not smoked pot since then, and never ever smoked a cig (nasty) it was some what of a discipline to me i was actually into not doing drugs because it gave me a feeling i guess of superiority, just to be honest. so i guess i am not the best judge for this.
Aliza- “…Girl, well, if they didn’t, who would be around to sell your kids drugs? You gotta keep the status quo, you know? Because you know how white people are about their marijuana. It’s like Starbucks. They can’t live without their fix…”
that is 100% grade A bullshit, i would say 90% of the black guys i have ever known smoked blunts all the time, i cant say about mexicans, didn’t know too many, but i am sure its the same. ghetto culture is all about some blunts… and guess what races make up the largest demographics are that proscribe to said ghetto culture?
i grew up with nancy reagan saying “just say no” to drugs. i also find it a little ridiculous how black and hispanics are always saying their parents are tougher on them than white parents. well.. this is only if the parent of color cares . this is also because this person of color probably has a relative or friend who has been affected by drugs and are ruined a whole lot more than any white person . its not that the white parent isnt as strict, its that they dont have to be. their child doesnt have as high a possibility of being ruined from drugs. then again, my parents never said anything about not doing drugs. they just assumed my siblings and i would not. and we did not. my aunt grew up in the sixties and did drugs when she was in high school, and though i knew about it, it didnt make me want to try it either.
i always laugh when my black and hispanic co- workers give that speech about how their parents are much stricter that white parents. oh and is this why no blacks or hispanics are in jail? i think that the ones who are strict only do so because they are scared shitless of how their kid might turn out because in the hood they dont have the luxury not to be strict.
FrumGer,
Your comments are interesting as usual. How do you rate driving violations when it comes to religion.?
More people are killed by careless drivers than those that die from smoking pot. In Canada, you get in more trouble for speeding or burning a stop sign than you do for possession, probably because it’s deemed more dangerous.
So, do you consider one that breaks the speed limit and burns stop signs as a sinner due to the fact that they endanger their lives and the lives of others EVERY DAY, as well as break the law of the land?
phil- funny you should mention that, i am not a big do gooder, and its not because i at all respect my government, but i did make a vow a couple years ago to go the speed limit and not do any traffic violations, just for the reason u mentioned….
it makes me an uber dork on the road and i get passed all the time but its whats right.
but either way, i am still up in the air about pot, it does have a stigma that for me is hard to erase, but that is my prejudice, not fact. And i know some totally functioning people that occasionally poke smot so who knows nu?
Frumger,
I did ask a Rav once regarding what kind of illegal acts constitue an aveira. Basically, anything that the government or police won’t bother enfrocing isn’t an aveira, vs something that they are strict about becomes problematic.
So theoretically, there might be nothing wrong with J walking in NY, but something wrong with J walking in L.A.