I never thought the day would come that a real live “not your typical bais yaakov girl” would exist…but low and behold – I received this from a real live one.
By Zissy Malka – name is made up by author to protect her shidduch chances, ironic eh?
Born and raised in the Orthodox area of my home town, it’s truly amazing I am able to write this brief commentary from my office at one of our country’s leading TV stations. Yes, I am a frum from birth, shomer shabbos, skirt wearing, single girl who decided to break away from the OT/PT teacher’s college mold that my friends settled into and work in TV. When all of my classmates at the local Bais Yakov were discussing cake recipes and their dreams of getting a position as an assistant in the local cheder, I was thinking ‘wow there has got to be something more interesting then this!’. Now don’t get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with being a teacher or a speech therapist. Lots of girls look forward to the day when they can help others in chinuch, pronunciation or even in dental hygiene and kol hakavod to them. For me, well, I needed something more.
During my time in University (yes, Bais Yakov approves of higher education but doesn’t promote it), I decided to throw caution to the wind, literally and took flying lessons in my spare time. “Wow, a frum girl taking flying lessons” shadchans would ask me? “Yes”, I would reply, “it’s the same as driving, except you’re in the sky”. They didn’t seem to agree but couldn’t provide me with a clear reason for why they suddenly said that their match for me wouldn’t work out. Great. At the time I figured, if the guy was too frum for me to become a pilot, he wasn’t for me anyway. Though 8 years have since passed and I am still an unmarried “tragic” case of the shidduch crisis, I still stand by my belief in finding the right guy for me.
Graduation comes along and B”H so do my first, second and third jobs in the television industry. “What?! You’re an FFB, looking for a guy who wears a black hat on shabbos and you work in TV” the ever harping shadchans would scream. (Now being a pilot didn’t seem that bad). “A plane, fine. But TV?!” that is just shiksavatik. It didn’t matter that I was never on camera, and sat at a desk behind a computer answering a phone like any other frum BJ graduate working as a secretary. It was more the location that seemed to be the issue. I still wear tznius clothing, bring my lunch everyday (in my city, downtown is like living in a forest when it comes to Kosher restaurants), leave work at 2 on Fridays and choose to keep my office socializing to a minimum outside the workplace. What’s even better (or worse?), I actually LOVE my job! The crazy loud atmosphere, the constant stream of new people (some famous, some not as much) and the chance I have to be everywhere I want to be and try everything and anything I want to try within my religious guidelines.
YES I AM A FRUM single GIRL! Who just happens to work in television, flies planes and oh, did I mention I snowboard too (in a skirt over my snow pants, srsly)? There must be a guy out there who will date an ‘out of town’ girl who has a super cool job (cooler then his?), has super fun hobbies (I started all girls ballet as well) and who will make the trek in for dates here and there. Sure! On the condition I quit it all and move to his New York apartment to raise a family. Do I give up my dream life that I have worked so hard to achieve, for a guy who says, “yeah that’s great, now its time you quit that and work on your real career, being a mother?”
I’m going to go watch Leona Lewis sound check in the studio while I think about this.
You could email her at ZissyMalka@gmail.com
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{ 169 comments… read them below or add one }
Dear Zissy,
Beautiful. Kol Ha Kavod.
Alan D. Busch
I saw an article at one point about snow skirts. So, you’re a MO Machmir girl who was raised yeshivish. The yeshivish world has Cranial Rectal Inversion Syndrome (CRIS) and they think that you’re not yeshivish, you’re not observant. See, that’s the difference between MO machmir and MO Liberal…. MO Machmir is as observant as yeshivish but, without all the schtus of “you have to be a clone to be observant.”
and here come the labels, of course!
all though i’m sure you didn’t mean to offend, but i always question why we need to label EVERYTHING.
Is MO liberal supposed to be any less observant than MO Machmir? I always figured that MO liberal meant liberal in philosophy. Liberalism is defined by Wiktionary as “Any political movement founded on the autonomy and personal freedom of the individual, progress and reform, and government by law with the consent of the governed,” and as “An economic theory in favour of laissez faire and the free market.” According to this, “MO liberal” would mean anyone MO who emphasizes personal autonomy and freedom. An MO liberal, for example, would be likely to reject the Maharilian view that aggadot are Sinaitic dogmas; he would instead favor the view of the Gaonim and Rishonim that aggadot are umdena, speculative philosophy.
Also, given that “Machmir” means going above and beyond the law, I figured that “liberal” means actually keeping the halakhah exactly as it is supposed to be.
As Professor Menachem Friedman of Bar-Ilan shows, in a traditional Jewish society, to be mahmir was no less divisive than to be meikil. There’s a story, for example, of a yeshiva student who refused to eat with the Shita Mekubetzet, because the student was more mahmir on kashrut than Rabbi Bezalel Ashkenazi. There’s another story of Rabbi Yaakov Huli (author of the Me’am Lo’ez), that he was doing a three-day fast, and was about to finish it, when someone offered him coffee. He thought it better to hide his piety and break his fast, than to refuse the coffee and reveal his fast.
So “MO Mahmir” basically means to violate classical halakhic norms and engage in a socially divisive and anti-traditional stringency. Cf. Professor Haym Soloveitchik’s “Rupture and Reconstruction”.
By contrast, “MO Liberal” would keep the halakhah exactly as it is meant to be kept.
You got it perfectly as part of liberal deffinition you qouted : “on the autonomy and personal freedom of the individual” that is the distinction with MO machmir who tend to believe more in bending our will to the torah thus its less likely for our women to wear pants, or go with uncover hair, or to eat dairy at nonkosher establishments
I’m not a halakhist, so I don’t want to argue at length about the halakhic propriety of these things. I will note briefly, however, that according to many (Rambam, Tur, Shulhan Arukh, etc.), hair covering is m’d'rabanan, and the obligation is only to cover those parts which most women cover. (The Maharam Alashkar explicitly states this, citing the Ra’avya.) Rabbi Yosef Messas of Morocco thus said that nowadays, since most women do not cover their hair, there is no longer any obligation to do so. Rabbi Isaac Hurewitz (an indisputably Orthodox rabbi who attacked Louis Ginzberg solely with ad hominem attacks) held likewise. As for pants, Jewish women in Turkey traditionally wore precisely pants.
In any case, however, does not “Modern Orthodox” mean bending our will to the Torah? By definition, a “Modern Orthodox” person either punctiliously keeps halakhah, or at least admits that he or she ought to be doing so. So I’d figure that “MO liberal” is a person who is no less punctilious in observance than an “MO Mahmir”, but who is more liberal in hashqafa.
Hashkafa and halacha are linked case in point: qouting turkish customs or Morrocan poskim to defend a practice among ashkenazic women, or viewing d’rabanans as optional.
It’s not that a d’rabanan is optional, G-d forbid! It’s that the d’rabanan in this case is that women have an obligation only to cover those parts of their hair which most women cover. In fact, the Ra’avya (an Ashkenazi rishon) says that ALL of the laws of tzniut are like this; the laws of tzniut only obligate a woman to cover up what most women cover up. We could say that tzniut is a sort of minhag ha-maqom; women must cover up their bodies as much as the women in their geographic locale do.
And though the Maharam Alashkar and Rabbi Messas are Sephardi, Rabbi Hurewitz and the Ra’avay are Ashkenazi. And I’m not sure that we should reject the Rambam and Shulhan Arukh simply because they were Sephardi.
Im sure you are aware that we generally dont follow the Rambam, when other rishonim disagree. and we never (with few exceptions) follow Shulchan aruch when the Ramah disagrees, sefardim of course would, so that last comment was irrelevant.
As you mentioned we’ll stay away from halachaic discussions that has been debated more than enough elsewhere.
There is no question that the jewish custom has always been for women to cover hair, im not saying its assur to do otherwise that is precisly my point violating halacha isnt MO liberal its conservative. But to throw away 1000’s of yrs of tradition, what the gemara calls “daas yehudis” or is it “daas moshe”( i dont remember) is the deffiniton of MO liberal
and finaaly im confused would you lump Rabbi’s Hershel Shecter, and Mordechai Willig together with Avi Weiss and Shlomo riskin? I think youd upset both “camps”
Of course I wouldn’t lump Rabbis Schachter and Willig with Rabbis Weiss and Riskin! The latter two I would consider textbook cases of MO Liberal; they are staunchly committed to every tittle of halakhah, but they nevertheless advocate educated and open investigation of the halakhic literature and Jewish tradition, following what Jewish tradition says on its own terms (what Rabbi Hirsch would call “Judaism learned from itself”) and not what we politically want it to say based on our own preferences and predilections.
Lol!! and Willig and Shechter?
> Lol!! and Willig and Shechter?
I’ve never read anything of Rabbi Willig’s, and very little of Rabbi Schacter’s.
But I did once read a very strange piece by Rabbi Schacter. Basically, he argued that it is heresy to say that the Gemara is ever wrong.
Such a position by Rabbi Schachter is diametrically opposed to Jewish tradition.
Tosafot Yom Tov to Nazir 5:5 says that just as a Biblical exegete may interpret the peshat of the Tanakh contrary to the midrashei halakhah, so too a Mishnah exegete may interpret the peshat of the Mishnah contrary to the Gemara’s midrash halakhah.
Sefer ha-Hinukh, on the mitzvah to obey the Sanhedrin, and Drashot ha-Ran (#7 or #12, I think) both say that it is better to follow the Sanhedrin even when it errs, than for us to have anarchy. The clear implication is that the Sanhedrin can indeed err. Indeed, the entire mesekhta of Horayot testifies to this fact.
Sifrei tells us to follow the Sanhedrin even when it says left is right and right is left, but the Yerushalmi says the opposite. One explanation of this contradiction is that the Yerushalmi is referring to a scholar (who may disagree with the Sanhedrin) and the Sifrei to a layman. Another explanation is that when the Sanhedrin issues a ruling with which one disagrees, one may ignore that ruling (as per Yerushalmi) until one appeals to the Sanhedrin and presents his disagreement, at which point the Sanhedrin will either change its opinion or repeat its earlier opinion (at which point one must submit, as per Sifrei). Either way, however, it is clear that the Sanhedrin can err, just as Horayot, Sefer ha-Hinukh, and Drashot ha-Ran say. Now, it is true that RambaN and Kuzari both say that the sages have divine protection against error, but this opinion is difficult to reconcile with the sources I have brought so far. In any case, the RambaN and Kuzari speak only of the Sanhedrin, and even they agree that the Gemara (which was NOT written by the Sanhedrin) CAN err.
The Rambam in Hilkhot Mamrim, and also in his Perush to the Mishnah, says that the Sanhedrin can repeal a midrash halakhah of a previous Sanhedrin, and replace it with a new midrash. The clear implication is that the new Sanhedrin believes the old Sanhedrin erred.
So far, we haven’t found a source for Rabbi Schachter’s idea that the Gemara is infallible. This sounds more Catholic than Jewish.
Dear dear Michael the sources you bring have nothing to do with gemara erring they are about Sanhedrin in a halachic ruling and even then its not clear whether the sanhedrin should be followed… enter maseches horayos. We believe that torah she bal peh was delivered at har sinai. Do Weiss and Riskin not believe that, im not that famiiliar with their work?
Anyway this is all far from the point I have a simple question for you: if you had to label (and i know labeling is terrible, blah blah blah) from what you do know about the right wing YU crowd what would you label them ? ill give you choices to help : yeshivish? chasidish? morons? hotties? kofrim? MO machmir? Reform? Kofrim? Catholics? MO liberal? plain MO ? hope those choices help feel free to insert any of your own
In the MT Rambam lists covering the hair under both daat moshe and daat yehudit ( daat beinot yisrael minhag tzniut). Based on the context it seems that “going to the shuk with uncovered hair” is a rabbinic prohibition made under the idea of not putting a stumbling block before the blind – a married woman needs something which indicates that she is married when she will be around men who don’t know her. You can see both in context here: http://www.mechon-mamre.org/i/4124.htm
? [??] ???? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???? ?? ?? ???–????? ???? ????? ???? ????, ?? ?????? ?? ????? ????? ??????, ?? ?????? ????? ???? ????, ?? ????? ???? ?? ???; ?? ??????? ?? ???? ????? ??????, ???? ???? ???? ???? ????? ???????, ??? ????? ????? ???????.
?? [??] ????? ??? ?? ??????, ??? ???? ??????? ????? ???? ?????; ???? ?? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ???, ???? ?? ?? ??????: ????? ???? ?? ????? ?????, ????? ???? ???? ???? ???? ???? ?????, ?? ?? ?? ?????? ????? ??????; ?? ?????? ???? ????, ???? ?????? ?? ???? ???? ?? ????? ?? ?? ?????, ???? ?????? ?????? ???????; ?? ????? ????, ????? ???????? ???? ???; ?? ?????? ????? ?? ???????; ?? ?????? ????? ?????? ????? ???? ??, ?? ???????? ?????? ???? ????? ?? ???? ?????; ?? ?????? ????? ??? ???? ???? ????.
?? [??] ???? ???? ????? ????? ????? ????? ???? ???? ????, ???? ??????; ??? ?? ????–???? ????? ?? ??, ??? ?????? ??????. ??? ?? ???? ????? ????, ???? ???? ???? ?????–????? ?????? ????? ??????, ???? ????? ?? ??.
not sure if that was to me, i didnt look it up whats your point. I believe (as all orthodox jews do) that we follow the rabanan regardless if the idea is applicable Micahel makovi believes in doing what he wants as long as have some basis for it. Not sure where youre comment fits in, care to elaborate? (thanks for source though)
Bob,
I have to reply to my own comment since the thread is nested too deep already.
My main purpose was just to supply sources since you seemed uncertain as to the origin of the head covering thing.
As a side note about O.J.’s here in Israel it is very common in the Sephardic and M.O. communities to see shomer mitzvot married women who don’t cover their hair. I speculate that the rational among many Sephardi might be that since the purpose of covering hair in public is to indicate her married status – then wearing a wedding ring fulfills the intent of the rule since in modern times a ring is the generally accepted indicator of a womans married status. It seems that there is trend here to try and look at the intent of rabbinic rules and try to keep the intent while potentially changing the practical implementation. And I do know that historically there have been instances where a prominent and well respected rabbi has ruled that a particular gezira is no long applicable or is differently applicable. For instance Rabbeinu Tam ruled in 12th century France that the mishnaic gezira of givinat goyyim was not applicable in his time to his community I assume since all givinat goyyim in his area was known to be made with vegetable rennet. Another example would be R. M. Feinstiens USDA / Milk ruling. Rambam seems to pretty clearly state that chalav akum needs at least minimal Jewish supervision, yet if I understand R.M.F’s ruling he looked at the intent ( that non-kosher milk shouldn’t be mixed in by the goy ) and said that the USDA fulfills the intent since they have good supervision that guarantees that something labeled cow milk is 100% cow milk.
wow! if i wasn’t already married i would be barking up your tree yesterday!
but, as a consolation, you and my wife would be best friends practically. keep being you. it’s the only way to be.
If I weren’t gay, I would marry you.
Heck, at the rate that states are banning same-sex marriage, maybe I will marry you.
women with rad hobbies are the new reparative therapy?
yo ho ho! a pirates life for me! ps. all girls ballet isnt remotely cool and certainly doesnt match the tv job and plane flying…. zissy malka, WHO r u?!
Thanks for your responses! It’s hard to pin an exact label on where I hold but Modern Orthodox with a side of Yeshivish and a dash of pop culture seems to fit these days. I try my best to keep being myself in hopes that Hashem will send my perfect match speedily and in due course.
P.S. All girls ballet is very cool – its fun and keeps us in shape for those singles events
good for you, but my By educated-ffb- skirt wearing -married to a black hatter wife would laugh, shes a dr and has a few friends who are doctors, dentists and lawyers. so youre hardly a pioneer, but again good for you
Hatzlacha finding your zivug
Im not doubting that TV is a bit more “out of the box” than the careers i mentioned but this line made me laugh: “Yes, I am a frum from birth, shomer shabbos, skirt wearing, single girl who decided to break away from the OT/PT teacher’s college mold that my friends settled into and work in TV. When all of my classmates at the local Bais Yakov were discussing cake recipes and their dreams of getting a position as an assistant in the local cheder, I was thinking ‘wow there has got to be something more interesting then this!’.”
oh and we ski, (i couldnt pick up snowboarding)
Anon, I fully agree! Those are very prestigious and impressive careers, yet for some ‘reason’ TV sends up a red flag. Like your wife and her friends, my mind in high school saw endless opportunities. To me, nothing was out of reach and I simply decided to do the ‘funnest’ thing I could think of. I know I’m not a pioneer but I have yet to meet anyone who considers themselves ‘orthodox’ who works in televison.
As for snowboarding, you have to try it. For some reason, I just feel ‘cool’ on the board, and not just because of the weather. lol
You should look in San Diego and parts of Los Angeles! There is a world outside NY and any boy here would be so excited to have you AND encourage you to continue to do what you do!
there are plenty in NY too, just most shun TV for obvious reasons, so you may be limited. which haveing grown up in a BY enviroment im sure you understand (you dont have to agree, but you should understand)
Wow, ZissyMalka!!
Life sure isn’t fair. I mean why can’t the frum community just accept people for who they are! As long as you’re being frum, what difference does it make what your hobbies and pastimes are?! Well good for you ZissyMalka!! Keep being you!! You sound like an awesome girl!!
If you’re ever in Amsterdam look me up, my name is K Knocker!!
I am quite the aidle maidle! Too bad you live so far away…
ZissyMalka,
For a girl as real and cool as you I’d swim across the oceans. I’d climb the highest mountains, I’d fight a war…… Can’t you at least take a plane over here to see me…….. It’s just that I’m kinda busy right now.
Thanks
K Knocker
Wait, so you’re asking me to fly to Amsterdam to date you when you’re currently dating someone else?
Classy
Love to see that my options haven’t improved at all.
I won’t ask you to fly to where I am, but luckily, if NYC is the Alexandria of the world, Jerusalem is…well…the Jerusalem of the world. I’ve situated myself in a place where nearly every Jew has to come sooner or later.
YO dawg,
I got dibs on this broad!!!
*sigh*
For the record, I do not agree with his referring to women as “broads”, etc. On the other hand, I’m not sure whether he’s being serious or flippant in using that terminology.
Yo MM,
Keep your records filed away where they belong.
Serious or flippant……..what do you think?
Watch your back HAHAHAHA
How far out of NY !? And does it come with a job @ the TV station !?! I’m in !!
Haha thank you for all the support! Unfortunately out of NY for me means specifically out of the country. Cross boarder dating scares most guys away, even if it is just Canada. That also means that my job and pilot’s liscence are not transferrable to NY, LA or Amsterdam… which leads me back to my original post. Do I give up my career here for the married life elsewhere? (I would have to re-take my entire license at my own expense in the US… and well, i wont even get into the work visa situation regarding trying to find an equal paying job in TV).
wow what an odd question to post on a blog, thats up to you to determine where your priorities lie, dont think less of those who choose family as their priority, just as they shouldnt think less of you.
Theres been a lot of disscusion in literature about backlashes to feminism as women realise that they were pressured into giving up raising a family, a deccision that many have sice come to regret. Think long and hard for yourself as to what is more important to you, may Hashem help you in this hard decision, and Hatzlacha either way.
The question im reffering to was “Do I give up my career here for the married life elsewhere?”
I realised that my comment might have sounded slighty offensive, so to clarify i meant no offense. Throuought life we make decisions that we dont want to make often we want both but it just doesnt work that way. I always saw myself as a doctor. Unfortunatly, i only got in to school out of the country. i had to make a decision give up my dream of becoming a doctor, or put off my plans to get married for a couple of years, leave my friends and family far behind and pursue my career dreams. I and I alone was able to make that decision. There are times when i second guess myself, but i think i made the right choice.
You have to decide if your career or raising a family is more important to you, and act accordingly if that means youd have to relocate to NY, amsterdam or LA. Obviously if you are able to satisfy both dreams that would be best, but it doesnt always work that way.
Again Hatzlacha in all your endevours
Thank you for your comments. I deal with this decision daily. Having your cake and eating it too still seems to allude me but I have emunah that my ’situation’ will have a happy ending.
Well I kind of find it interesting when people say things like “I would move there for a job” while they say things like “I would never want to marry agirl from there because I don’t want to have to live there” since when did careers become more important than finding someone to build a family with?
Heshy, EXCELLENT point!!!!!
Hate to disagree, but I’ve seen people move to places that they hated for their Significant Other. I’ve never seen it work out.
1) ive seen people move to places they thought they hated for significant other, and ive never seen it fail
2) nobody is sugesting she move to place she HATES
3) not sure if youve been following the disscusion, but she doesnt have a significant other and would like to find one, thats the problem, of course youre right that you can have a career and 1-2 children, but as you mentioned even that isnt easy, as i mentioned she may want a larger family (thats for only her to decide), and thirdly she cant find anyone with whom to have those 1-2 children. that is the issue at hand.
1. That’s the problem with using life-experience as a hard and fast rule. We experience different things. You’ve seen it work out, so you would advise her to expand her search. I’ve seen it fail, so I would advise her not to look outside her comfort zone.
2. It’s a judgment call, she’d have to decide which areas she wants to live in, which she’s okay with living in, and which she would hate. I’m only advising against being pressured to move outside her comfort zone. I’ve seen it fail, and if she was my daughter or sister, I’d not want her to risk being hurt.
3. I couldn’t understand what you were writing or if you were writing to me.
sorry bout the third point i thought was something u said but was actually yochanan, elsewhere on the blog.
we both seem to agree that its not an easy decision, and being pressured into situations is never good. i think we are in agreement
My mother moved half way across the Soviet Union to marry my father. They then proceeded to moving half way across the world to protect my sister and me, and I can proudly say that they are, thank G-D, still together after 20 years. It works, or at least it can work.
Zissy,
Private message me, I think I have a guy that might be interested in you.
Ah but would I be interested in him?
email me zissymalka@gmail.com
Hey, if you’ve got a load of ‘out of the box’ guys, can you e-mail me as well? hahaha
bperes0@gmail.com that’s a zero…
toda!
Don’t close all options but I wouldn’t settle either. I’m sure one exists but I have yet to meet a guy who was worth taking the bar exam again for. (I hate ending a sentence with a preposition but there ya have it…)
hi
…keep going….
feel free to email me zalmysilver@hotmail.com..where ya from?
Interesting post by an interesting author. Who would have imagined a frum BY girl flying planes. As far as the TV job, sounds like another desk job that anyone couls have, I really can’t see how it would chase any potential husband away.
I know an older guy who’s been looking for a while, pop me an email if you want his info at phil@freshwaterphil.com
Zissy,
Retake the test and fly yourself to the locations.
If by family, you mean simply fulfilling the Mitzva of having a boy and a girl, combining it with a career is possible, albeit challenging.
Now if one is planning on having a litter of 15 kids, that’s another thing.
of course, or being ther for the 2 kids as much as one would like. Its a decision that has to be made.
and litter is a tad offensive, dont think less of those who have chosen a path that you wouldnt, to each thier own.
Litter might be offensive, but accurate.
Calling it a litter doesn’t cast aspersions on those that choose to and are capable of birthing that many children.
I have no problem being a working mother. My situation is even simpler then that. I can’t seem to find the right guy with whom I can be a working wife/mother, in my present location due to my career and hobby choices…
There are plenty of people who cant seem to find the right one without knowing a reason. in that regard you can view your “situation” as an advantage
Don’t be silly. This can be solved if you find an amazing cleaning lady/nanny for a reasonable price.
Crackhead whore.
Don’t cry ’cause I said that. Ok?
what a…. asshole….
why would u say something like that? are u mentally challenged? well, if not, u will be, when i find you and punch u repeatedly in the face. hard. get an effing life. seriously, what exactly would make u say something like that? i hope i meet you one day, so u can see how much i meant what i said i would do (and believe me, i have no problem doing it nor is there anything you would be able to do to stop me).
this girl takes the time to write this nice, innocent, enjoyable little essay about herself and her struggles, and you write this?
go eff urself
zman, no worries
I meet girls like her all the time.
It is called an internet troll – someone who always comments negatively but rarely if ever says anything smart or that could lead to a decent conversation
u du drugss and u hve know yirs shommayim! nd alsow yur righting suks!!
On a more serious note, thanks for the great article. You sound just like the kind of girl I’d love to marry (if I wasn’t 20). Good luck finding him!
I for one think you sound like a really cool gal.
You should definitely make a point of saying that you can fly yourself in for dates
I think you’re amazing! And there is for sure someone out there for you! Don’t settle and don’t give up… beatzlacha!
Thank you!
Heshy,
Don’t you think we should introduce Zissy to a mutual doctor friend of ours? Sounds right up his alley…
No way – she’s looking for someone way frummer – besides Doctor hates TV and pop culture
To the person who wrote that asshole comment go eff yourself. As for you zissy thanks for the great read. I’m a married man but I have to say my wife and I are very openminded ffb ppl and we both concur that you are one super cool gal. Hope you find a guy that makes you happy and apprecuates you for what you are; a cool fun girl!
Something is definately screwed up in her head.
You only hear insecure screwed up ppl talking like her.
That’s all for now.
thoughtless comments dont deserve a response
Thanks for the post! I agree, I am insecure. So much so I decided to write an entire post about my life and have everyone around the world read it and comment about it…
how old are you?
Does it matter? Well I’ve been dating since 19 and its now 8 years later…
Maybe he’s interested…
U sound interesting. Good luck!
why is everyone so surprised? most people i’m friends with are exactly like you…
who are u?
AN OUT OF THE BOX GIRL! *horrified face*
just kidding.
i too am an out of the box BY girl. not as interesting as TV and snowboarding (being a hopeless klutz kinda ruined that for me) but im into farming/environment and music (kol isha is a toughie, i wish i could perform more). when, as a teenager, i attended BY i used to take off to attend environmental conferences – the looks of sheer horror i got from my rebbetzins were priceless. and sad. the whole system is so closed minded. but BH i found my out of the box guy and i IYH you will too!
never give up who you are.
expect the unexpected!
Ok. As a Canada expert I am going to “out” Zissy Malka as being in Vancouver. No snowboarding in Toronto worth bragging about, and she is too -not Toronto-. Vancouver has the mountains and the personality fit. While Montreal has the (much smaller) mountains it just doesn’t seem a fit. Yes- she MUST be from Vancouver area (I guess possibly Calgary but what are the chances…nobody is from Calgary).
Terrible argument because most frum girls who say they snowboard aren’t any good – and besides LA has loads of good ski mountains nearby as does Denver, Seattle, Boston and Pittsburgh
Love I am able to say that you are both wrong…
Hah- sounds like you’re a typical out-of-towner.
My wife and I live in NY, but we’re not from here. People always seemed shocked that she can drive a manual shift car, drives a moped to work (in a skirt and sheitel under the helmet), and yes, she’s even flown a plane.
This is WHY I married her.
Any Shadchan who thinks being who you are is ruining your chances at finding someone is wasting your time. Girls like that are a precious commodity.
wait you married someone because they can drive a stick?
Isn’t that an essential skill?
I can drive stick. My last three cars were stick.
If you’re so open minded why do you want a black hat guy – why don’t you widen your dating base?
Don’t you find it a little hypocritical to be working in Television and pop culture when you probably wouldn’t want your kids watching TV or movies – based on your want for a frum guy.
It seems that while everyone is congratulating you they are forgetting the idea of the post as you being abnormal – but you are not abnormal – you are just modern orthodox, yet you call yourself yeshivish. Are you really yeshivish? If you aren’t, you’re just another Bais Yaakov girl who went to the left – there are dozens of cool Bais Yaakov graduates just like yourself – don’t think you are alone.
Don’t you find it a little hypocritical to be working in Television and pop culture when you probably wouldn’t want your kids watching TV or movies – based on your want for a frum guy.
Is it hypocritical to work for Hormel because they sell non-kosher products that you don’t want your family eating?
Is it hypocritical to work for a mortgage broker that will sell bad mortgages to people that can’t afford them that you wouldn’t want your family to use.
Is it hypocritical to work for Barnes&Noble that sells books you wouldn’t want …
Is it hypocritical to work for GE that sells arms to people that kill Jews.
Is it hypocritical ….
I found a job listing on craigslist that was selling ads for a porn magazine – it was good money and sounded cool so I applied – but when they actually wanted to interview me I kind of thought twice – I felt hypocritical.
If she worked for a Robyn Bird it may be hypocritical but sitting at a desk in some random TV station bah – nothing wrong with it.
Mamaleh, a black hat is just an article of clothing. I do not believe that Moshe Rabbeinu wore one. Just look for a mensch without the labels. I’m sure there there is someone up north who will appreciate a special young lady like you . Keep your eyes and mind open. Start a frum flying or snowboarding club and you may meet someone with your interests. I’m looking forward to your announcement on Only Simchas.
It’s not the hat I am looking for but rather the lifestyle it represents. I have been dating for many many years and have widened my spectrum from the far far right to the far left from the get go. The black hat is an ideal but not a deal breaker.
Thanks for your suggestion about looking up north. I have many female friends who live there but nothing has worked out dating wise.
Zissy, we can be best friends. I am there with you… only I’m not FFB… message me on my blog if you feel like it (I don’t want to bug you otherwise).
Hesh, she is the one that said she is from canada. She is way too normal to be from Toronto aside from the lack of real skiing options there. I am sticking with my guess from before. So “Zissy” hot or cold?
Cold
If she’s Canadian, my guess would be Montreal or Ottawa. Not too many Bais Yaakov girls living in St John’s, Halifax, Charlottetown, Winnipeg, Regina or Edmonton.
Besides, crossborder shidduch dating between Canada and the US is most often practiced by Canadians living within reasonable driving distance of the US border.
Ya know…. I forgot about Ottawa, reasonably close to snowboarding in Quebec… I suppose its a possibility but I suspect (and wouldn’t blame you) that you are not revealing your hometown on this blog.
You people obviously don’t know about Earl Bales Park or Blue Mountain…
Moo HaHaHaHa
Heshy, is she too wild for you? Or are you just missing the black hat? Send this to hh and maybe the b’shert’s a blogger.
I worked as a TV news writer for a CBS affiliate in my city. Fun job but stinky pay which is why I left (they can get away with slave wages since there are so many college interns willing to do the same job for free). Overall a great experience.
You must be on the east coast (as I am) because I don’t believe you’re such an anomaly in places like L.A. Just about everyone is involved in some way in the entertainment industry, BT or FFB – of course that’s an exaggeration, but it certainly feels like that. (I’m from there originally, and know successful frum screen writers, producers, etc. – all now married, though. The point is, they exist)
I will certainly keep you in mind, but I want to make one point: Hakol bydei shamayim. As long as you do your hishtadlus, then you aren’t a “tragic” single shidduch “case” – for whatever reason, it is not yet your “time” and when HaShem decrees it so, you WILL meet your bashert, and the shadchanim are simply shlichim (mostly lousy ones at that!), they are NOT the ones who make the shidduch!
I know of 28 yr old male living in Sufffern who will not date a girl unless she know who Dave Matthews is. Do you know who Burton Cummings is?
I do but I am not a fan… I saw him in concert though. With my dad.
Sounds like a great girl, I’d date her.
To Michaltastik who wrote:
“MO Machmir is as observant as yeshivish but, without all the schtus of “you have to be a clone to be observant.””
I think this idea is not only awesome, but right on target with my fellow MOers who don’t care for the mob mentality confines of the yeshivishe velt, but are certainly not compromising on halacha just because it requires a less robotic understanding.
Thank you…
Anyone interested in more of my opinions should be able to find them by clicking on my name….
i would love to see you as guest speaker at fundraisers. i would go to a dinner to hear a bj graduate talk about her career and hobbies – chllenges and highs – in TV, flying, and all the otehr stuff you’ve done.
btw i also would like to say, don;t get hung up about the ‘relocation/career/mothering’ question. b”H, as you say when the guy comes along who is worth retaking exams for – or changing careers for – or who really wants ot learn in kollel and be home to look after chidlren while you are at work – well, there are multiple ways things could work out, & i think the time to make the decision about relocation/changing careers/etc is once you have met a guy who you’d spend your life with and then know what your parameters are.
Exactly! I just haven’t met that guy who appreciates all the cool fun aspects about me and isn’t threatened by my achievments, yet still wants to live a torah lifestyle.
As for the public speaking engagements… I have honestly never been asked. To be honest, I don’t think they want an ex BY girl promoting out of the box behaviour, but I could be wrong!
Its a decision you have to make. the worst thing would be if you woke up in a few years and realsie that the decision was made for you. take time to think, discuss with those dear to you, who understand where you come from/ where you would like to go. May hashem guide you in this process, and perhaps more importantly may you be able to look back years from now and realsie you made the right choice. But to just “wait and see” doesnt seem like a good idea.
There are halachically legitimate rulings that it is ok to wear pants when for comfort & safety during sports, such as skiiing.
Zissy Malka, I applaud you for doing the things that make you happy. However, I do not support your “I snowboard wearing a skirt over my ski pants” position as being somehow PREFERABLE to those of us who snowboard in ski or snowboarding pants. Or do you snowboard in a place where a skirt wouldn’t simply blow in the wind (creating a wind sail & negating any idea that this is more tzanua) or be at risk to get caught on something (no trees where you go or other hazards?)
I am not judging those who choose to simply wear pants vs a skirt over pants. B”H I have not been in a situation where wearing a skirt has been an issue. There are the other FEW girls I have seen at the hill I go to, who also wear skirts over their snowpants for skiing or sledding. It is simply a life choice. I also wear a skirt when I go flying. Ever try checking the fuel tanks on the wings in a skirt? Somewhat difficult, but do-able with the right wardrobe choice and careful maneouvering.
Anything is possible with the right motivation
Zissy and Snowboarding Jewess -
I live in Colorado and alternately board with a skirt and without. In fact, I am currently working on designing a snowboarding skirt to go with pants. I know so many frum girls who wear skirts when boarding or skiing. I never thought of it as something they do as a statement on others, just as something they do because of their own convictions. Just the same as I don’t think their everyday attire of modest clothing is a slap in my face when I choose to wear pants instead of a skirt and tights (like today… when it is -7 degrees in Denver). I like to be able to wear a skirt over my pants when I board but I won’t if I am concerned about safety or if I don’t have the right skirt. For example, I won’t wear something fancy or very absorb-able. Right now, I don’t wear a skirt, because I don’t have one that gives me the right amount of movement, isn’t going to get drenched and frozen to my legs, or won’t cause safety issues.
My belief of modesty is clearly different than Zissy’s but that’s okay. If she doesn’t feel comfortable in pants it isn’t a judgment on me, just how she lives her faith…
Actually, that makes me think… my website, http://www.patheos.com is doing a special segment on religion and the body. I was planning to write about tznuit but I think I might like to have something from Zissy… would you consider it? email me at tdavis @ patheos . com
If anyone else is interested in contributing an article or a blog, just let me know!
You don’t have to say anything more. “Maneouvering” did you in. B.C.
Anonymous is really Henry Higgins?
LOL
ZM,
Apologies if I mis-stated your beliefs re: skirt wearing when snowboarding. I’m still skeptical that one can snowboard in a skirt over pants safely at any “high level” of snowboarding, but I’ve seen far, far worse (e.g., riders without helmets in the terrain park!!!).
Talia,
Good luck in your project!!! I’m trying to envision a “spray skirt” made of water resistant materials that might work. I can’t figure out the logistics of it.
I know that if I had any material hanging by my knees, there is an extreme risk that I’d basically run my board “over” the skirt on a deep carve, due to the deep knee bend & the way your body stays centered over the board itself on its edges. I can’t think of what wouldn’t get ripped immediatley or otherwise wipe me out.
I’ve got it all up here… (points to head).
I like the feedback though.
Frankly, I think the snowboarding in pants and a bikini top is pretty much the worst thing I have seen on the mountain…
This whole snow boarding in a skirt thing is getting weird.
I have 2 “great” solutions:
1) Were the skirt under the snow pants, that way you’re being double tznius.
2) Wear a miniskirt or tut u on top of snow pants, so it doesn’t get in they of the board.
Zissy,
You are my kind of woman ( not in a lesbionic way ). G-d bless you sweetheart! I think all Bais Ya’akov girls should aspire to be come just like you.
You make me smile. Not in a lesbionic way
Didn’t you ever hear of bionic lesbians? I didn’t think Jaime Sommers was one though
Zissy! I wish you lived near me. We’d be buds, for srsly. Like Frum but Fun said, you’re my kinda gal.
Except “lesbionic” isn’t an actual word…so you’re my kinda homie? Yeah, that works.
Message me!
zissymalka@gmail.com
ya cool beans zissy malka, i wouldnt limit myself to a “black hat.” there are frum people who would want to marry you and are just as frum as any black hatter or whatever.
and i dont feel as you said earlier that it “represents a lifestyle.” being religous represents a lifestyle.
I would and have dated all types of guys. Black hats, ball caps, knit caps, no hats (just kippas) and all types of kippas too! “Black Hat” is what my backround is, the way I was raised and where I feel comfortable – I have not and never will rule out those who choose not to wear one. I agree, there are MANY people who are more religious then those who wear a hat. I am looking for the whole person, not just the head covering.
One question only: Why did you never shown up on my list in 8 years?
Could be for a number of reasons. Who knows…
The gemara itself acknowledges erros within itself every time it brings
“Chassurei mechsera” to refute a theory.
Rabbi Shimon of Shklov, a student of the Gra, in his introduction to his translation of Euclid (AFAIK) says that hasurei mehsura, according to the Gra, doesn’t mean a textual error being corrected, but rather, it means that the Gemara is consciously twisting the words of the Mishnah in order to fit the halakhic traditions of the Babylonian amoraim. (The amoraim had their own traditions which conflicted with the Mishnah’s, and they of course preferred their own traditions to those of Rebbe.) Rabbi Dr. Eliezer Berkovits explains hasurei mehsura similarly in his article “Talmud” (or “Babylonian Talmud”?) in the Encyclopedia Judaica.
In any case, Phil, your point remains. Whether the Gemara is correcting the text or inserting its own personal opinion that contradicts the Mishnah, either way, SOMEONE is “wrong” and is being corrected..
The Gra’s explanation of hasurei mehsura would fit well with Rabbi Moshe Shmuel Glasner’s explanation of pilpul, following the Hatam Sofer. According to Rabbi Glasner, authentic pilpul is simply when a rabbi nudges or changes another rabbi’s words slightly in order to fit what he knows the truth to be. We know that something is a certain way, and if we have to nudge Rambam’s words a tad in that direction, so be it. In this way, Rabbi Glasner explains the Hatam Sofer’s statement that “Most forced explanations are true”.
You don’t happen to be a daughter of a judge who works for MTV Canada?
To belive that Gd makes mistakes is purely apikorsis. To belive the limitation of gd and that he can even do something by mistake….!
I doubt earlier authorities had the same historical consciousness. I’m not sure, but I don’t think they were as concerned as I am with history per se. History was in such a state at the time that Rambam actually considered history books to be in the category of seforim hitzonim, the reading of which result in a forfeiture of Olam ha-Ba.
I can only say what I personally believe the Torah says on the matter.
Did it occur to anyone that this “Zissy Malka” is merely a figment of Heshy Fried’s imagination? Great way to up the blog-posts and page-views.
Bobby J., come on! Heshy was hoping that if we all believed in her, then that’d start to exist, like something out of Planescape, where thoughts and opinions shape temporal reality. Thanks for ruining it!
Trust me – zissy malka is not my type – she mentions nothing of the outdoors, uses proper grammar and doesn’t talk about culture or art and I have not owned a TV since 1999.
3 people who know her already guessed who she is – email her and she’ll tell ya.
I thought that until she started commenting on other posts. Why would a figment do that?
Megillas Taanis mentions the miracle of the oil:
??”? ??? ??? ????? ????? ????? ??? ????? ??????? ????? ????? ???? ?? ?????? ?????? ??????? ?? ??? ??????? ?????? ???? ??? ???? ??? ?? ?’ ???’ ???? ?????? ?? ??”? ??? ???? ??? ??’ ?? ?????? ??? ??? ??? ????? ?? ?? ??????? ?’ ????
This is also quoted in the Gemara (Shabbos 21b).
Right. Megillat Ta’anit IS THE SOURCE for the miracle. Shame on me.
What The Hell Heshy? really? are you serious? you apllied to a porn job… who do you think you are luke ford? you should be ashamed, and by the way you will never get a shidduch that way, or at least not a belulah…
YCT would be like JTS, but only the left-wing Orthodox JTS scholars, without the right-wing Reform JTS scholars. And YCT has no right-wing Reform RA at all.
So if Conservative Judaism = left-wing Orthodox JTS + right-wing Reform JTS + right-wing Reform RA, then YCT = left-wing Orthodox only, without the two additional right-wing Reform factions.
Zissy,
Stay true to yourself. You seem like a really cool person. Keep doing what you enjoy.
Of course I (and the YCT-type) believe that the Oral Law was given at Sinai. But the Oral Law is not synonymous with the Gemara. Moshe Rabbenu was given explanations of the Torah, not a set of Shas. Are you going to say that he was given both the Bavli and Yerushalmi as we know them today? According to Rabbi Zadok ha-Kohen of Lublin, the entire Oral Law was given in potentia, with each generation bringing more from darkness into light, from koah to po’al, from potential to actual. In this way, he explains why Moshe in Menahot could not understand Rabbi Akiva.
As for labels… the right-wing of Modern Orthodoxy, as well as Hardal, are both becoming nigh indistinguishable from the Haredim, so let’s just call them left-wing Haredi or modern Haredi, or some such.
In their view they are quite distiguishable their views on zionism, and college come to mind. im so glad we could clear this up turns out yore ok with what seems to be your group MO liberal you just want to kick them out of the “MO” umbrella seems its just a semantic difference, as to where on the spectrum they lie. Try to be a little more open-minded, and let them go by their preferred nomenclature.
Im wondering if you view your views of torah shebal peh as traditional views that have stood with us for thousands of years (but were perhaps hidden) or you view them as picking and choosing mamrei chazal that fit your predetermined view. (it is this qoute that im wondering about: “So “MO Mahmir” basically means to violate classical halakhic norms and engage in a socially divisive and anti-traditional stringency. Cf. Professor Haym Soloveitchik’s “Rupture and Reconstruction”.”) Additionaly do you believe (not asking for proof) that the shulchan aruch, Rambam, tur, shita mekubetzes, meam loez and whomever else youve qouted shared your views?
One last thing, I recall reading a piece by Avi Weiss on homosexuality in which he stated that god made a mistake, ive tried to google it but couldnt find anything (theres a chance obviously that it wasnt him), do you know anything about that? do you believe god makes mistakes?
So its semantics youre ok with MO liberal, but you dont want them to be MO machmir you want them to be modern Charedi, maybe be more open minded and let them go with the nomenclature that they like.
a few questions: 1) do you believe that your views of torah shebal pe are more traditional than the views of Rabbi shechter, ie do you believe that the Rambam, Shulchan aruch, R’Zadok, the shita and whomevr else youve qouted had views more similar to you or to R’ shachter, and that that YCT tries to use mental gymnastics (sometimes good ones and perhaps neccesary ones) to fit torah with their views? no need for long speech im just curious if thats what you believe.
2) I recall reading an article by Avi Weiss on homosxuality in which he stated that god made a mistake (i couldnt find it on google their is a chance i recall in correctly) do you know anything about that? do you believe god makes mistakes?
Okay, if everyone may have their own nomenclature, then I expect to be called a member of the “Liberal Modern Orthodox Jews Who Alone of All Orthodox Jews Have a Legitimate Claim to be Correctly Interpreting the Torah”. Every time you discuss me or my views, I expect for my faction to be so referred and cited by you. (I expect you’ll object, and with good reason!)
Yes, I certainly do believe my interpretation of the Oral Law is far more Jewish than Rabbi Schachter’s.
I haven’t seen that article of Rabbi Weiss’s, but it sounds very questionable. Some have accused Rabbi Emanuel Rackman of doubting the Torah’s Sinaicity, but all he said that was the Avot wrote their own scrolls, and that G-d instructed Moshe to include these scrolls into the Torah. In other words: the Avot wrote, but G-d edited. But this innocuous statement by Rabbi Rackman was transformed by his critics into a denial of Torah min ha-Shamayim.
Disclaimer: I’m not stating my own opinions… I’m just raising some thoughts
Read the bibilical story of Noah and decide for yourself if god makes mistakes. Read the midrash of god trying to create the world 70 times; does god makes mistakes? (Read the story in Ta’anis in which god admits to being unfair, but oh well, that’s god’s decree.) Read Job. Is it a testimony to god making mistake after mistake?
Why does the idea of god erring threaten you?
Can i abridge your new sect LMOJWAOAOJHLCTBCITT, hope u dont mind was to long to spell out. Thank you for conceding that was very open minded of you, Avi Weiss (the founder of your movement?) must be proud.
you didnt answer either of my questions, ill abridge them but youll note that the questions havent really changed:
1) Do you view your views of oral law as more TRADITIONAL than Rabbi Schachters?
2) do you beleive god makes mistakes?
I have a third if you dont mind (Hope you dont mind my asking these questions but this is my first encounter with a LMOJWAOAOJHLCTBCITT ,
3) as chanuka aproaches, do you believe in the miracle of the oil (ie as i assume you know, that oil that shouldve lasted 1 night burned for eight), is that the view of all LMOJWAOAOJHLCTBCITT?
Thanks
those thoughts are hard-core unadultared kefirah. I always feel silly calling something kefira (sounds so medieval and old-school) but wow congratulations!
If you have any questions contact your local orthodx rabbi (note id make sure hes not a LMOJWAOAOJHLCTBCITT), youre hardly the first to raise them, or read up classical works on those situations which bother you
I was being sarcastic about my title. My point was that it is unreasonable to allow everyone to choose his own title without criticism. My point was that if I were to claim to be a member of the only authentic Orthodox denomination, it would be unreasonable for me to expect others to honor this claim by me.
Now then…
(1) I believe my view of the Oral Law is more traditional than Rabbi Schachter’s, yes.
(2) No, I do not believe G-d makes mistakes.
(3) I don’t know what others believe about Hanuka. My own view is that the miracle is questionable, because the first book of Maccabees has no record of it, and as far as I remember, neither does Megilat Ta’anit. This does not mean the Gemara is wrong, but it is certainly suspicious. Now then, as I’ve said, Hazal CAN make mistakes. Also, according to the Gaonim (and this is repeated by Rabbi S. R. Hirsch in his teshuva on aggadah, and by Rabbi Dr. J. H. Hertz in his introduction to the Soncino Nezikin), it is possible that Hazal invented stories because their aim was to teach morality, not history. So if it turns out that Hazal were flat-wrong about the miracle of the oil, or if turns out that Hazal invented the story to teach a lesson, either way, we will not be troubled. I do not know whether or not the miracle happened, because I was not there. But I have followed the words of Rav Kook, when he said that we must build a palace of Torah above all new scientific theories. By this, Rav Kook meant that any new apparently heretical theory, we should try to Torah-ize it, to kosher it, so that we can dispassionately and calmly investigate whether the theory is true or not, now that we’ve gotten any issues of heresy out of the way.
Now, the Maharal declared Rabbi Azaryah de Rossi a heretic, because the latter claimed Hazal invented stories to teach lessons, even though Hazal knew these stories never happened. But even though the Maharal declared de Rossi a heretic, de Rossi had the backing of the Gaonim behind him, and as I said, Rabbi S. R. Hirsch explicitly endorsed de Rossi’s approach. The Maharal’s position is difficult to understand.
Michael,
Thank you i appreciate your time
i was really planning to stop bothering you know but do you think your view of chaunka was that held by the RAMBAM, Mechaber et al, ie is it the traditional view, or ares ome of your views a bit more of a new fangled -judaism (you can choose a less offensive term if that bothers you)
Im not chalenging you im just trying to wrap my head around your views
When someone with questionable emunah is seen quoting Rav S. R. Hirsch, it can be safely assumed that he is actually misquoting.
Happens over and over again.
Anonymous,
Unlikely. I’ve read more Rav Hirsch than almost anyone else has. I can run circles around almost anyone else quoting and citing Rav Hirsch.
You can check Rav Hirsch’s teshuva in the original, if you want:
His teshuva on aggadah:
– Original Hebrew: here
– English translation: here
“Questionable emunah” is a ridiculous phrase in this context. Saying so just makes _anyones_ quotations and interpretations incorrect. After all, anyone’s emunah can be questioned.
It’s interesting to me that you claim to be an expert on Rav Hirsch and then refer to a Hebrew document written by a Breuer as an “original”. I’m no expert by far, but do I know that his originals were written by himself and in German.
Second, I did not say that you have not read Rav Hirsch. Rather, I said that it is a misquote, i.e. a misinterpretation or an out of context quote. It is not for nothing that the frummies are scared to teach Hirsch in their schools – his writings are so often misused as supporting the very things he fought against (i.e. reformers such as yourself and other branches of non-Torah true Judaism).
Come on, don’t get into semantics. Questionable emunah is a proper term to describe someone who believes G-d may not be perfect R”L, among other things that Michael has said here.
When did I say G-d isn’t perfect? AFAIK, that was Rabbi Weiss, not me.
> It’s interesting to me that you claim to be an expert on Rav Hirsch and
> then refer to a Hebrew document written by a Breuer as an “original”.
> I’m no expert by far, but do I know that his originals were written by
> himself and in German.
WRONG. The letter was PUBLISHED by Breuer, but it was written by Rav Hirsch. And no, Rav Hirsch did NOT write his TESHUVOT to RABBIS in German! He wrote them in Hebrew!
Michael i showed our conversation to a conservetive rabbi, aquaintance and he said your ideas are more conservative than orthadox. Do you agree? if not could you please (briefly) explain the difference. Thanks
He was also wondering if youd want to take over his position as rabbi when he leaves in 5 months (he is kind of a right leaning conservative shul has no mechitza but sepperate seating) , I told him i think youre in Israel and wouldnt want to move to the States, but I promisd to pass along the message.
It depends on what he means by “Conservative”. If he means early twentieth-century Conservatism, then he’d probably be right that I’m Conservative. Rabbi Dr. J. H. Hertz, the first graduate of JTS, and the ORTHODOX Chief Rabbi of Britain, would use “Positive-Historical” ( = Conservative) and “Orthodox” as synonyms.
But to distinguish myself from contemporary Conservatism is simple: I keep the whole Shulhan Arukh (or, at least, I try, and acknowledge I ought to be keeping all four sections) and I believe the Torah (both Written and Oral) was given at Sinai.
As for my being a rabbi: I had to burst out loud laughing. I’m far too ignorant and unskilled. Besides my lacking basic necessary pulpit-rabbi abilities (such as sermon eloquence and pastoral counseling), I simply am far far far too ignorant in Torah. There’s no way I’d be able to answer halakhic she’elot. No way on G-d’s green earth. I’ll be a pulpit rabbi over my dead body, when hell freezes over, when pigs fly. I’ve considered being a day school teacher, but at least in that, you only need competence in the one field you teach. But there’s no way I’ll be learned enough to be a congregational rabbi, ready to offer counseling on all aspects of Judaism. Besides, I want to stay in Israel, as you said.
Great comment, which of course illustrates where youre children and the future of YCT are headed. You admit that your movement now is similar if not identical to the early conservative movement, look at them now they it begins with questioning chazal, an “improvement” here and there, ovethrowing age old traditions based on a shaky source or logic moves on to calling chazal liars and ends with doubting torah misinai.
Bob,
Not at all. Let me explain.
Within JTS, there were rabbis and scholars spanning the spectrum from left-wing Orthodox to right-wing Reform. For the first several decades of JTS’s existence, the Conservative movement produced no real halakhic innovations, and certainly nothing heretical, because they couldn’t agree on anything.
But by contrast, the RA was purely of the more left-wing radical variety. The JTS ivory-tower scholars spanned the spectrum, but the synagogues were almost exclusively less than committed.
Two things led to where Conservatism is today:
1) A new law was passed in the CJLS that made even minority opinions valid for pesaq. At that point, it didn’t matter anymore that left and right-wing JTS scholars couldn’t get a consensus, for now, if even one JTS scholar broke with halakhah, it was legitimate.
2) The CJLS was removed from its JTS monopoly, and shared with the RA. No more could JTS Talmud professors, who were almost all Orthodox, keep Conservative law halakhic. Now, left-wing RA rabbis shared power. In fact, often, JTS Talmud professors began to be almost entirely excluded from having any power at all.
THAT is how Conservative became what it is today. It has nothing to do with its having positions like YCT’s. There is, as of yet, no historical grounds to hold that YCT will become like Conservatism has. There is no equivalent of the RA or the left-wing Reform JTS scholars within YCT.
For everything I’ve said, see Evan Hoffman, “Factors of Traditionalism in Conservative Jewish Law”, online here.
Interesting. I grew up in a city where the Conservative Rabbi was as far as I could tell completely shomer mitzvot. In the 1970’s the congregation forced him into retirement to replace him with a more liberal rabbi at which point he started attending Chabad. I think he was in his 60’s at the time. I’ve noticed that to be fairly common, the C. Rabbi’s at least on the face seem to be shomer mitzvot, but almost none of the congregants are.