So I was getting lunc to day at Shimon’s Pizza (after trying all the pizza on main street I like theirs the best) on Main street in Queens when this old man walks in.
“How much is a slice?”
Spanish guy answers $2.25
“Ok I’ll take one”
This Jewish guy standing behind the counter looks at the guy and says “What’s your name?” in a really rude fashion.
Old guy “I never had to give my name to get a piece of pizza before.”
Jewish guy behind the counter seems pissed off, and mumbles something that sounded like “I know you from somewhere.”
Old guy didn’t know him and the exchange was done.
Granted it’s New York City and people are generally rude or hurried, but I was kind of pissed off too – I mean, if you’re going to play Jewish Geography with someone trying to make a connection with a fellow Jew maybe it could have been along the lines of “I think I knew what’s your name?” or something a bit more pleasant.
This incident happens in countless places all of the time, in shul especially, or one time when I was out in a nice restuarant this guy was sure he met me somewhere and the only thing I was sure of, was that I wanted to eat in peace.
I do wonder, however, if frum Jews are ruder than all the rest, or it’s just a New York thing?
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{ 86 comments… read them below or add one }
I think there are many frum jews who are rude, most from NY. However, just as in any society there are different classes (not referring to $$) , and I think most frum jews fall in the middle to lower class and lack heavily in the manors category.
dude, lower class (we call them “working class” or “poor”) people are so much better mannered than middle class people, middle class people are a bunch of jerks, ask anyone who has ever worked in a service profession. I’m guessing you are one of them, as evidenced by this rude comment.
dear heshy,
while i recognize the usefulness of anecdotal evidence, i do not agree that what little this very short story provides justifies your leap to:
“I do wonder, however, if frum Jews are ruder than all the rest, or it’s just a New York thing?”
on the other hand, do we all need to be kinder and more respectful? without question, yes, whether one is frum or not. then again, it is certainly the case that if a Jew walks about with a kippah, i have the expectation of him that he not be a boor. anything less is a chilul Ha Shem. If he is a boor in fact, then i’d ask a small favor … please remove your kippah. thank you.
Alan D. Busch
I think it is a Brooklyn thing..
I went out to eat the other day and a woman was talking down to the waitress and was acting really condescending. When that sorta thing happens I cannot keep my mouth shut and it angers me very deeply. I grew up in a small city where people tend to be more considerate and my mother taught me manners and proper etiquette from a very young age. I stated my opinion diplomatically to the woman. She was unreceptive. well of course she can act that way!.. The waitress is a shiksa! and is supposed to serve her exactly the way she deems fit. I think that is complete bullshit, and a chilul Hashem.. the antithesis of what being a frum jew is all about.
d123, you are precisely correct! good fellow.
alan d. busch
I couldn’t agree with you more (not that my opinion counts for anything).
me four, and me, too to adbusch re: remove your kippa. The better idea is to not be a boor, period.
1. don’t you love it how the peaceful, nice, pleasent, achdus loving out-of-towners always say loshon hora on a whole community (the worst kind of loshon hora)
2. don’t you also love how the only complaint they could ever come up with is the cliche “they dont ever say good shabbos to strangers”
brooklyn rocks
out of town sucks
Well said brooklyn dude, ive laughed at that for years
oh and my favorite out of towner “criticism” Ive received: “I hate brooklyn theyre so into stereotypes” yes that happened
Does anyone else catch the irony of this post, or is it just me?
if your a fan of irony, read through New yorker’s comments on this post, while bashing frummies for rudeness he doesnt hesitate to say: “shut up already and in the future if you want to act like a beheymah, don’t wear a yammaka”, “If you don’t end your call right now, I will crack your head open” “What IS IT with you wacked out frummies?!” “i feel sorry for you, as you are a true ghetto idiot (probably of Hungarian or Romanian heritage)” a true model of polite behavior, he may be my favorite guy in the world
Wow Jimmy, my post TOTALLY went over your head.
nope it didnt dont worry, was just shairing more (unrelated) irony in case youre a fan.
a more accurate post wouldve siad the most common complaint heard is that new yorkers dont say good-shabbos. Ive been new-york bashed for years and that is by far the most common complaint heard, as if non-jewish new yorkers wish each other good-morning on the street
(If that wasnt the irony you intended i may have missed it)
I’ll tell you my worst “frum rude” story. Last summer, I was taking the LIRR from Penn Station to Long Island, on a Friday afternoon. In the seat in front of me, a shlumpy attired businessman wearing a suede kippa was talking loudly in his cell phone, with a representative of Chase or Citibank how his ATM card was charged incorrectly, something like $10 or $15 he should not have to pay. Now, I know that there are usually one or two loud cell-phone users per car on a typical LIRR ride, but it happened to be that this time, the entire car was silent, you could hear a pin drop. And I’m seeing all these goyim turning their heads around to see who the loud nutcase is on the cellphone, and I’m so damn embarrassed. After TWENTY MINUTES of this guy doing this (I was praying that the call would end, but he just kept going on and on), I leaned over in front of me and half-whispered “You’re making a huge Chilul Hashem with your phone call, shut up already and in the future if you want to act like a beheymah, don’t wear a yammaka”. Without even turning around, he said “MIND YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS”. Now, I’m a little over six feet tall, built like a football player, and I don’t wear a kippa (although I went to yeshivas my whole life, etc). So I stood up and made him see my size and face (I admit, I look like a tough irish guy), and said to him “If you don’t end your call right now, I will crack your head open”. His eyes got very wide and his face turned red, he put his cell phone away, got up and walked out of his seat, to the other end of the car, and got off at the next stop, which was Valley Stream. Two pleasant shiksas thanked me for intervening.
I don’t know why you are embarrassed by what another human does.
Threatening violence so you can “be the hero and kiss the girls” doesn’t seem like something to be proud of.
woah, slow down partner. I was embarrassed AS A JEW, having to witness the packed car of non-Jews on the LIRR looking to see who the loud, obnoxious man yelling into his cellphone about MONEY was, and then seeing the “oh, of course its a jew” smirk. What that jerk did through his behavior was perpetuate the millenia old canard of MONEY IS MOST IMPORTANT TO THE JEW. it was not just “another human”, but someone from my tribe, who acted like an asshole. as for “kiss the girls”, or being a “hero”, you read too much into what I did pal. don’t want or need to be a hero, and I don’t partake in non-kosher (shiksas).
He perpetuates nothing aside from being a rude person who was obviously agitated over an over charge. Do only Jews dislike being overcharged? Why do you view it as a Jewish stereotype?
Money is one of the most important thing for most humans.
I guess if you have a tribal outlook and you see him as wearing some kind of warpaint that somehow makes his behavior your responsibility, okay. But, I’m sorry to tell you this, you have no control over your the actions of other people in your tribe. You will frequently be ashamed.
If you didn’t want to be the hero you wouldn’t have mentioned the accolades you received from the women. Obviously, you didn’t physically kiss them. (Why would you, when you use a derogatory term for them… your fellow human beings.) That’s why I purposely put those words in double quotes.
DrumIntellect, you are way too apologetic for the guy I had to threaten in the end. Of course nobody likes to get overcharged for anything, and money is important. But why must this guy talk and yell about it IN PUBLIC? Why not handle his situation IN PRIVATE, IN HIS HOME? And ANYONE who wears a kippa and acts like an animal IN PUBLIC makes a Chilul Hashem, either to other Jews or to non-Jews. Period. No excuses. So, when I saw a group of chassidim fifteen years ago waltzing into a strip club in broad daylight in the Times Square area, they all made a huge Chilul Hashem. You cannot just reply “Hey, lots of people go to strip clubs”. Sorry, but once you wear a kippa, you MUST, at the VERY LEAST, ACT like a polite person in public. NO EXCUSES, NO GRAY AREA.
You’ll get no argument from me that that human’s conversation should have taken place in private.
In my opinion the whole chillul hashem thing is overblown in your mind. Most normal people look at others as humans, not jews, blacks, whites, chinese, christians, etc. The story you report about chassidim going into a strip club (which btw, according to you might be chillul hashem to relate), doesn’t reflect anything on all chassidim or jews. People understand that chassidim (male or female) are also capable of sexual inclinations. Plus, they may have been there to discuss business… fifteen years ago, going to a strip club to discuss business was not considered inappropriate.
Besides, why not look at it positively? It’s not hard to take their kippa off. So why did they leave it on? Perhaps to remind themselves to look but not touch?
Personally, I think a lot of people leave their kippas on because there is so much pressure to look “right”.
your comment of “plus, they may have been there to discuss business”, speaks volumes about you. you’re a waste of time, as you are a brooklyn raised fool. an illiterate, apologetic donkey. your obsessive use of the term “humans” for people shows you are possibly chassidic raised, likely satmar. you’re wrong, when you say people just look at people. when it comes to JEWS DRESSED IN RELIGIOUS ATTIRE, non-Jews and secular Jews ALWAYS judge them by their actions. and if they act like filth in public, then it just breeds contempt and anti-semitism. i will not respond to your posts anymore, as talking with a below-average intelligence brain washed ffb, and you are beneath me.
Well, I’ve been with civil with you despite that fact you’ve called me “partner” and “pal”. I will stay civil despite the fact you’ve heaped on “a waste of time”, “a brooklyn raised fool” (as opposed to a Staten Island raised fool, I suppose). “illiterate”, “donkey”, a “below-average intelligence brain washed ffb”, and “beneath” you.
You seem to be extremely hot-headed based on your amount of words you have all-caps (an indication of yelling) and the fact that you threatened violence on otherwise innocent person.
If I felt responsible for your actions, I’d feel embarrassed by your characterization of people as “jerk”, “asshole”, “shiksas”, “animal”,
It’s funny to me that you are unable to respond to anything I write in a logical, rational way and you resort to name calling and assumptions instead. Sadly, for you, you were incorrect about everything you assumed.
Based on our little exchange today, I would have to conclude that, intellectually, no human is beneath you.
New Yorker. Youre rudeness seems to know no bounds, are you sure youre not a closet frummie? because if not i think youre posts as a new yorker settle this disscussion
jimmy, your lack of elementary school english “youre”, makes it apparent that yet another dead-eyed ghetto zombie is attacking my righteous assault on the non-derech eretz, non-caring chilul hashem chazzer i encountered. its no surprise, you and all the others against me are like the people who attack the accusers of “frum” molesters. shove another piece of yerushalmi kugel in your mouth at the kiddush of the shteeble you attend and walk around arrogant and dumb, like the flatbush drek you are
hahahahahaah i love you. could you please start yourE on blog?
and im not sure which estteemed institution of fine learning you attended, but i was under the impression that i when used as a pronoun should be capaitalized. Dont worry i still love you and yourE blog can have all the typos youd like and ill still be a loyal follower
another frum fruit pop. sick. go to the mikvah and find someone who will reciprocate “i love you”, cause it ain’t me. jimmy. or should i say, yankel. sicko.
cant help it, im just really in to six foot tall built like foot ball player irish looking angry dudes. can we make a mikva date? id love to meet you all bring all the yerushalmi kugel u want , (or chazzer if youre a chazzer-fresser) but if not could you please at least start your own blog? maybe with some hunky pics?
i hope you don’t give your wife AIDS or another std from all the bath houses you attend.
not to worry im still HIV free and as for std’s not much amoxicillin wont kill so we are good to go, when can we meet?
oh and dont forget about the blog
fardreyen zolstu mit di fis. krichn zolstu afn boych. zol dir platsn di gal. zol dir dreyen farn nopl. shteyner dir afn hartsn. oysdarn zol bay dir der moyech.
that could be the name of your blog!!!!
a bunch of horny chassidim went to a strip club? how rude!!! if only they got a lesson on politeness from new yorker so that their conversations would be filled with an appropriate amount of name-calling
its not about rude or polite you shmuck. its about chilul hashem. get it through your thick drakkar drenched head.
no its about rude, I qoute the title of the post: “Are frummies rude or is it just a New York thing?” your comments do kind of settle the question dont you think? You can start your own disscusion as to who creates a bigger chilul hashem, but for now your comments are as irrelevant as you are.
Please let me know if you start your own blog. thanks
rude leads to chilul hashem. its a gateway aveirah. putz.
is there something wrong with you? The blog is about wether frummies are more rude than new yorkers. Of course its worse for frummies to be rude (as an aside you dont really know what chilul hashem means, but that isnt the disscusion of the blog so i wont get into it, for example chilul hashem is only in front of jews, although what you call chilul hashem is still bad its just not called that).
but frummies arent ruder than new yorkers as a whole, its just more apparent because we are judged by higher standards and we try to keep to them, but like any human being we are far from perfect. But I have never heard a frummy peper his (verbal) comments with as many abusive words as you have, Im sorry but you are the rudest person I have ever encountered and I have spent my life around both new yorkers and frummies
i know the topic is about rudeness, i just shared my worst rude frum story. others commented how i was wrong to do what i did to stop it. i’m not a frummie, although i am shomer shab. unfortunately i grew up around, went to yeshiva with, and occassionally do business with frummies, and BY FAR, they are ruder than the rest of the new york city population. i’m not talking about vulgarity, i’m talking about politness and manners (for example “please”, “thank you”, “excuse me”). most nyc frummies look at goyim and the non-relig yidden as servants. the level of rudeness i relate in my episode on the LIRR was so extreme, it was causing a chilul hashem. thats it, nothing more, nothing less.
nobody is disputing that talking on cell phones in public is rude. I think though most feel that threatening violence, and being verbally abusive to other posters is ruder than skipping an occasional thank you/ excuse me. and as you say you are no frummie
I always try to be polite on (at least) two occasions (both times at starbucks, not sure if theres a pattern) the barrista commented “you must be from out of town” these stories happen a lot, there used to be a coulmn in the NY times called metropolitan diary, which related “classic” new york stories, many of the stories involved themes similar to the one i described.
Being rude is known as a new york thing, you are no frummie yet you as mentioned by several posters you are extremly rude.
(As an aside, and boy is this gonna get me in trouble but goyim are our servants, you can whitewash “atah vchartanu mikol haamim” as much as you like so that itll make you feel better among your liberal more enlightened friends, but thats all it is whitewashing. The world was created for Klal Yisroel. However that deffinilty doesnt mean we are allowed to treat them improperly.)
i threatened violence to stop a horrible chilul hashem that perpetuated anti-semitism. and it worked. and i’d do it again. as for your comment “the world was created for klal yisroel”, is arrogant and misguided. the world was created long befor klal yisroel accepted torah at har sinai. and long before avram aveinu. its not your fault you think like this, as 95% of what remains to teach you are the descendants of the shoah survivors, who are stupid, immoral, lying, thieving, cheating, hungarian and romanian chassidim. you anon, are a fucking mo-ron.
The disscusion is about rudeness, not when violence is allowed, talking on a phone is a very common rude thing that people (jew and gentile alike) do. threatening violence is a lot ruder, the language your commetns are full of are rude as well.
Dont worry about quelling antisemitism, when doing the right thing we dont care what goyim think they hate us anyway. There is no reason to avoid getting back $10 that were overcharged Yaakov avinu risked his life for small jugs, we are careful with our money, and there is no kidush hashem in allowing ourself to be ripped off (I do agree that obviously yelling in public isnt a polite way to act, but again neither is threaening violence.), and besides as far as antisemitsm goes:”95% of what remains to teach you are the descendants of the shoah survivors, who are stupid, immoral, lying, thieving, cheating, hungarian and romanian chassidim” wow!
Your comment about the world being made before matan torah just remind us how far you have strayed a you dont remeber some of the basics of your people. We believe that hashem created the world on condition that klal yisroel accept the torah
I’ll tell you my worst “rude new yorker” story. Last summer, I was taking the LIRR from Penn Station to Long Island, on a Friday afternoon. i was talking on my cell phone with a representative of Chase or Citibank how his ATM card was charged incorrectly, something like $10 or $15 I should not have to pay. Now,as you know there are usually one or two loud cell-phone users per car on a typical LIRR ride, so its not that uncommon. After awhile this irish- looking six- foot tall-built like a footballplayer- shaygatz -new yorker (who i suspect was trying to impress these two shiksas on the train), leans over and rudely says “You’re making a huge Chilul Hashem with your phone call, shut up already and in the future if you want to act like a beheymah, don’t wear a yammaka”. Naturaly i responded with “MIND YOUR OWN FUCKING BUSINESS”. Then get this this new yorker gets up and says “If you don’t end your call right now, I will crack your head open”. He actually threatned to use violence to end a pohonecall of vourse my eyes got widened and my face turned red, I got up and walked out of his seat, to the other end of the car, and got off at the next stop, which was Valley Stream. He then turned to Two pleasant shiksas to claim his prize. And I thought frummies were rude.
I don’t get the point of your story.
You were rude too.
I was rude too? What is wrong with you? I told him he was making a Chilul Hashem, and instead of saying “you’re right” and ending his call, he cursed me out, and went right back to his call. I was rude? What IS IT with you wacked out frummies?!
What?
I’m not a frummie at all. In fact, I’m not even relig!
I don’t understand why you posted that whole story anyway.
You weren’t right, he didn’t have to end his call.
If he’s talking to the bank and trying to get a refund, who cares? Let him talk. Lots of people talk on public transportation. It’s not your job to tell him how and when to talk. Get over yourself.
he was not simply “talking”, he was YELLING and at certain points SCREAMING into the phone over his $10 overcharge. and I had to see goy after goy exchange looks, smirks, and comments about this YID who can’t control himself over MONEY. if you or any other arrogant flatbush frummie can’t understand, i feel sorry for you, as you are a true ghetto idiot (probably of Hungarian or Romanian heritage)
BTW, this sentence that your wrote “So I stood up and made him see my size and face (I admit, I look like a tough irish guy), and said to him “If you don’t end your call right now, I will crack your head open”. ” says alot about you.
You are proud that you told a stranger on the train that you will crack his head open? How immmature.
“chaya” is not frum or relig? sure…if i see a guy making a chilul hashem, and AFTER i ask him politely to cease his actions that are making the chilul hashem and he continues, i will ALWAYS threaten violence, if it means the chilul hashem will stop.
What is in a name…
Threatening violence is not the end, but the beginning, of the chillul hashem.
wrong. he was wearing a kippa, behaving like an animal, and me, without my kippa, stopped him. you remind me of chamberlain appeasing hitler. another donkey with blinders on. here, have some paskez candy, and go play pool and smoke so you look cool. chamor.
Wow, we’ve got Godwin’s over people pointing out that you were being an asshole? Nice.
this is like a kafka nightmare. illiterate, stubborn fools.
If someone is talking on their mobile in public, their conversation is fair game to any nearby bystanders
I’ll tell you my worst “rude new yorker” story. Last summer, I was taking the LIRR from Penn Station to Long Island, on a Friday afternoon. i was talking on my cell phone with a representative of Chase or Citibank how his ATM card was charged incorrectly, something like $10 or $15 I should not have to pay. Now,as you know there are usually one or two loud cell-phone users per car on a typical LIRR ride, so its not that uncommon. After awhile this irish- looking six- foot tall-built like a footballplayer- shaygatz -new yorker (who i suspect was trying to impress these two shiksas on the train), leans over and rudely says “You’re making a huge Chilul Hashem with your phone call, shut up already and in the future if you want to act like a beheymah, don’t wear a yammaka”. Naturaly i responded with “MIND YOUR OWN F-ING BUSINESS”. Then get this this new yorker gets up and says “If you don’t end your call right now, I will crack your head open”. He actually threatned to use violence to end a pohonecall of vourse my eyes got widened and my face turned red, I got up and walked out of his seat, to the other end of the car, and got off at the next stop, which was Valley Stream. He then turned to Two pleasant shiksas to claim his prize. And I thought frummies were rude.
instead of calling it ‘jewish geography’ did you mean ’six degrees of kosher kevin bacon’?
It’s not a frum thing, New Yorkers are rude period. I can’t blame them; the city’s always crowded and smells weird. Whenever I visit, by the end of the day I get tempted to shoot obnoxious tourists dirty looks and shove people.
I don’ t know about manners in NY, but for sure no driver ethics. Every Friday when I go shopping a frum Jew in a minivan tries to kill me when backing up from the parking on maximum speed or just cutting me off on the road. I thought it is everywhere, not only NY frum Jews, until I went to Boston for Shabbos. I was ready for my usual Friday extreme drive, but the people were so surprisingly kind and nice, and yet frum. Maybe the frumer you get the less manners you have? Last time I checked they don’t teach even table manners in our Jewish school system here in NY.
Perhaps it would be more prudent or you to learn how to drive?
D123, Heshy’s story took place in Queens, not Brooklyn.
Last I checked, there are no frummies in Shimon’s. Aren’t they Israeli?
Heshy, I wish I knew you were going to be at Shimon’s. I would have come to greet you with a rude “What’s your name? I think I know you from somewhere. Ah, you’re that apikores who writes that blog.” LOL
I like a good rude frummie bashing as much as the next guy, but this pizza parlor (remember that term?) parable was puerile and pointless.
i think that its more of a new yorkers are rude and obnoxious thing than a frum jewish new yorker being rude thing.
Definitely a New York thing. The most rudeness seems to come from black hat NY people in heavily frum neighborhoods when interacting with people in the service sector. Having lived in the midwest for a few years, I natuarlly smile, and say hello to cashiers, and thank them and say “have a nice day” when I’m done. The frummies around me not only don’t say hello or thank you, but don’t even meet the eyes of the cashiers, acting like they’re just part of the cash register! It’s rudeness beyond belief.
I will explain a reason why frummies, are more likely to be more rude than non-frummies (no I am not sterotyping as there are many fine frummies and many uncouth non-frummies- I merely offer a reason why it’s MORE LIKELY frummies are less-mannered). They have less interaction with non-jewish society (i.e. 99.9% of the world). They lead sheltered lives ( I am not judging). Moreover, Male frummies spend much of their time learning in the bais medrish- where the gemarrah won’t be insulted if you have no manners and there is only academic interaction. Let’s face it: people skills are not really necessary when you learn torah in a big room to which you confine yourself. yes, derech eretz kadma litorah, etc, but that only goes as far as standing up when the Rosh walks in.
The second reason is that frummies are more likely to have an elitist feel and that non-jews (99.9% of the world) are a sub-class.
Just my thoughts.
Heshy,
Best pizza in KGH is Naomi’s. Shimon’s is definitely better than Benjy’s though.
Naomi’s also has the best falafel balls in NYC, if not the whole USA.
Best pizza is debatable – but I happen to like shimons – the best kosher pizza will be discussed in a later post.
best kosher pizza i’ve had was sabra in cedarhurst. best spinach pizza for sure.
When did you have that Sabra slice? Their pizza used to be great, but recently…. eh.
I know your start these topics to begin these crazy debate..but this post is pushing it.
What’s the big deal? All New Yorkers are rude. It’s not juts a jewish thing or just a frum thing. Everyone is this city is rude. What is there to talk about? It’s rude that you were listening in on other pple’s convos. Big deal.
Next.
Yes but frummies appear to take that rudeness to a new level – I know it’s not like that on the upper west because modern people grew up with manners and most of them are from out of town. But take a trip to Brooklyn, Monsey and Lakewood
Yes, frum people are generally ruder than their non-frum counterparts.
I think it’s related to their insincerity mixing with their educators teaching that that “all jews are responsible for each other”. It is expressed in a very unhealthy gossipy way.
But obviously, that doesn’t apply to all frum people. A majority does not a totality make.
I have noticed a startling curtness and a tendency to talk over each other in a new shul I just joined. They all sort of tumble over each other and are very brusque. The simple niceties like, “please, pardon me, excuse me, sorry for interrupting” I’ve never heard them used. Is one shul far away from NYC indicative of anything? Probably not, but it keeps me from speaking up because I wasn’t raised to converse like that.
One more anecdote, (and we all know the plural of anecdote isn’t data but if multiple anecdotes on a topic all sound alike there is SOMETHING at work there don’t cha think?,) my friend who just visited Israel showed me 2 bruises on her ankles where she said she was rammed by different women pushing baby carriages. She said no one ever said excuse me, they just bumped into her until she moved. It happened several times she said. She came back from Israel and said the exact thing: People seemed very rude to her. I don’t know what town, what street, what “version” of Jewish women were doing that, I just know I saw the bruises and my friend had a very bad impression left of folks and their manners there.
Shrug. I’m a NYer and can be as rude and sharp as the next fellow but I gotta say, my new shul shuts me up nicely. I’d be ripped to shred by them.
I’m NOT reaching a conclusion that frummies, Jews or Israelis are rude. I am pointing out that the conversational styles I’ve witnessed among them are not as genteel as other styles.
And finally, after saying all that: “Oh well. If ya don’t like it, go talk to someone else! Bah!”
I didn’t read the other comments due to my laziness, so if this has been disputed already I do apologize.
It’s a New York thing. New Yorkers are mostly assholes (not ALL of them!) just because it’s a much faster pace of life; you’re all “gottagetitdoneandgetitdoneNOWRIGHTNOWNOTLATER”
coming from bumpkinville, PA, it’s a much slower pace of life, so we have time to relax a bit, use our manners and take the time to say “Hi there. I think I knew you from such-and-such-shul, what’s your name?”
I expect zero manners when I visit New York.
Same here, and I’m often pleasantly surprised. Lots of nice people there, especially if you have low expectations.
“Plus, they may have been there to discuss business”
DrumIntellect,
There’s no more reputable place to discuss business, like a coffeeshop? I mean who besides mobsters and movie detectives need to discuss business in a strip club?
That was me in #65.
Yochanan, of course there are better places to conduct business. In today’s climate it’s not even _a place_ to conduct business because it’s considered offensive.
The only point I was making about business is that 15 years ago it was considered acceptable to conduct business there. The assumption that these alleged chassidim were at the strip joint to get “jiggy with it” is not necessarily a good one. (Especially if you are approaching it from an “Orthodox” view of giving the benefit of the doubt.)
Just to be clear, I do not advocate conducting business in a strip joint. Personally, I think strip joints are a waste of time and money, but to each his or her own.
Riiight. And I guess it’s OK for them to munch on a bacon cheeseburger because that’s an acceptable form of nourishment.
at least one person (yochanan), sees the stubborn stupidity of these frum defenders of chazeirim
frummies are rude period. i work in a frum store,and deal with them all day, frummies are rude.
Unless I completely misunderstand group labelling for purposes of accuracy in loshon hora, frummies are NOT, as a group, rude. Jews? Perhaps. New York Jews? Probably. Frummies? Probably not.
What do you call the black-hat crowd that spends Pesach at the Frum Tuck (Freier Tuck the rest of the year)? Are they not frummies? They are certainly not rude. One of the main reasons my wife and I go there is because we like the clientele. And I not only don’t wear a black hat, I generally don’t wear anything over my yarmulke. While I do have a full beard, I think that if that whole place is courteous in general, including to me, it says that a blanket statement calling frummies rude is false.
rude leads to chilul hashem. its a gateway aveirah. putz.
I think that yiddin just have there own way about them, its a more direct, brazen approach to life sure. i must say i have gotten the whats your name many places as have we all, and its almost always with the so called spotlight on you for inspection day. its rude by goyisher standards but for jews its normal. listen kvetching is our way. i dont get mad about such things, the way i fugure it, the more goyisher you are the more likely your going to take offense. jews have there own manner. who can define manner? we are jews not goyim. manners are just minhag really if you think of it. its custom man. jews can be loud. we can be pushy, and direct. that is our way. that doesn’t mean goyim who act polite, but then talk about people behind there back (NOT TO SAY WE DONT) goyim who almost never say what they mean, and will lie to eachothers faces, that is manners? saying please, thankyou, out of repitition, or letting someone overcharge your bank account so as to not upset anyone. eat food that was prepared wrong then give the person and the restaurant a big tip? That is not our way. we are direct, we argue. our holy book are chock full of arguements, as is our history, we say whats on our mind. period, manners in the way you are thinking are goyisher manners, we have our own set of manners. like not answering when someone says “whats your name? THAT is “jewish” rude…
o ya -BROOKLYN DUDE, well said.
If you want to see rude, just go to the catskills in the summer, based on what is plain to see I wouldn’t blame anyone over there being a brazen Anti-Semite