≡ Menu

Awkward Shidduch moments

awkward shidduch momentsOne of the things I like about shidduch dating the most, is the awkwardness. Unlike most normal people, I kind of like those awkward silences when the only sound that can be heard is the crunching of ice or shaking of feet, those times when you say or your date something and you just don’t know how to respond. I also enjoy the first few moments when you pick them up and you are both trying to give each other the once over (checking out) but cant due to your positions in the car or train. .

Awkward Shidduch moments:

Initial Phone Call: In the yeshivish world the phone call lasts about 10 minutes and is a courtesy and logistics call. In my world the phone call can last up to 3 hours and can seem like a date. The problem with long phone calls, is that you build up this picture in your head and the long phone calls are always with girls who you end up being very unattractive.

Every time I make the first phone call, I hope for an answering machine, then they have to call me – cant explain that feeling but it’s a good one. Either way, I used to get very nervous during the first few minutes, no idea why, just did. One day that nervousness ended, but its been replaced by awkwardness, of the bad kind – because you don’t get to watch them in their moment.

The pickup: I pick up most of my dates with my car, do I go up to the door? Do I wait in the car, near the car, outside the car? There are so many thoughts, a lot of girls have been convinced that they should be embarrassed to be on a date, so they don’t want you actually knocking on their door – that’s a red flag for me by the way, it shows a lack of confidence in my mind, and its funny because the coolest girls I’ve gone on dates with have always told me to knock on their doors. I cant seem to understand the logic when it comes to their friends, let the friends speculate and do what they do.

I have also been told to wait in the car, as if I was the getaway car, which makes things even worse because you cant really check them out – a sitting down girl is no use to me, that’s why I hate those Facebook pictures with the girl sitting down in some pizza shop – they leave to much hidden.

Do I open the car door: The debate has lasted years and I always bring it up when the discussion turns to shidduch dating, but I always find it awkward to open the car door for the girl. Granted it gives her time to check you out as you run around the car, it also gives her time to check out my cracked windshield, terrible smell of bike clothing and stacks of clothing, energy bars and maps shoved into the seats behind her to give her a space – but it could be so awkward when you are leaving the car. Walking her to the car and opening the door is cool – but when you get out, do you tell her to wait, because no girl I have ever dated expected me to open the door and I could tell by their shocked looks when I did.

Fact is I always bring it up on the date itself, while its happening, I say I feel so stupid opening up car doors, and they always say its nice but not expected.

So…: I’m not one for awkward silences, but the opening conversation can sometimes be rough. I am a good opener, but if the girl is one of those dead fish one answer types I automatically start thinking about ways to shorten the date.

Lets say you take a cab: I have never taken a date into a cab, come to think of it, I haven’t actually gotten into my own cab in 15 years or so due to the high price of merely sitting on the pleather without even going anywhere, but some people do take dates into cabs and I always wondered about the awkwardness of the whole situation.

I have come in contact with many daters, who wont take a train on a date because they say its not proper, these are also the same people who rent cars, only park in parking lots (because they think looking for a spot will unnerve the girl – and they have to make more conversation and prove their parking skills all at once) and take the Battery Tunnel (Its supposedly faster but $5 more) all because that’s the “proper” thing to do on a date – hence, those two drinks cost much more than just two drinks – back to the cab ride…

If you don’t keep negiah, that’s one thing, but if you do keep negiah – that’s when the awkwardness begins. Anyone that has ever taken a cab in New York City knows that sitting in the front is generally not an option – besides, if you sit in the front and your date is in the back, that looks pretty weird doesn’t it?

So you two shomer negiah daters are in the back and suddenly you hit a sharp turn or the cabi curses at the pothole he just had to swerve to avoid and you find yourself sliding quickly across the cracked pleather in the direction of your date, what’s a yeshiva bochur to do?

Can you grab the suicide handles before you slide into your date, creating an awfully awkward situation? Or do you just let gravity take control?

Has anyone ever experienced this?

When and how to end the date: Shidduch protocol says that dates need to be at least 3 hours long, but this was before modern orthodox folks started shidduch dating. Judging by the length of shabbos davening you think the modern folks like long dates, but that’s not always the case. I like long dates when it’s a good date, and I can tell within about 5 minutes of meeting them if its going to be a good date. One time I picked up a girl in Passaic and did the thing that most Shidduch daters will never do – I took her to a restaurant in her hometown – I just couldn’t tell her right there that she wasn’t for me. I wanted to so badly.

You can use the classic I have to go in order to end the date, or you can say boy its getting pretty late – whatever you may do its always awkward. I was on a date once with “spit girl” I call her that because she asked me if we could have a spitting contest off of a bridge in central park (kind of like that scene in Titanic – but this girl could hock bigger loogies than I ever could – guess that’s what Harvard Law does to you) and this girl at an 1.5 hours in the middle of a scrabble game called it quits, and just ended the date – she also walked off on her own and said that’s how she does things, I never heard back from her thank God.

Bathroom Breaks on a date: One of the girls I went out with once – who may be reading this – told me she was quite offended when I told her I was going to go pee behind a dumpster. In my mind I rejected her right there, the next time I really needed to pee on a date, I asked the girl politely and she told me that it was nice to ask her but that she thought it was disgusting. These two girls were obviously not for me, because I like girls that prefer to pee outside and can do it anywhere at anytime. But what happens if they need to go?

My buddy was on a date once and the girl kept farting, the windows were open so she assumed he had no idea, when they got to where they were going she immediately excused herself for upwards of half an hour. Now that’s awkward, whats a girl going to say after a power dump on a date? What if it were one of those bathrooms that didn’t have a lock and he walked in on her when he needed to go? Just trying to paint embarrassing but funny situation. Of course what happens if its you that ate a predate takeout Chinese meal? The real question is whether or not to tell your date you may be awhile.

Paying: There was only one time I contested a bill on a date, most people don’t feel comfortable enough with themselves to do this and suck it up, but I thought they must have had something wrong when I was charged over $40 for a couple of games of bowling in the Five Towns, the girl saw my eyeballs bulging and told me she would pay for dinner – I accepted.

My good buddy went out the other night to walk on the highline in NYC with his date, then they went for drinks at the Carlyle Hotel, when he got the bill he tried to maintain composure, he’s the type of guy who takes cabs rather than trains on dates – the bill for 2 martinis was a whopping $84 – I was exasperated myself – he told me the drinks were $18 but, he didn’t realize it was $20 per person just to sit down – $10 if you sat on a stool – they obviously aren’t counting on the shidduch crowd. He has been calling the hotel complaining ever since, but on the date he acted cool and casual – I wouldn’t have.

I have spoken before about the half wallet pull, this is when the girl makes a gesture of paying but has no intention to pay. I wish I were in the dating scene, because I would test these girls to see if they would really pay. We do all the work, we pick them up, open doors, and chose a place – the least they could do is pay. I have let quite a few girls pay for me – some of them thought it was confidence and I told them it was really because I just don’t like buying things for people I don’t know, I love taking my friends out for dinner – but some random girl, uh uh. Most girls offer to pay, or make some sort of non-committal offer, such as the half wallet pull, the raising of the purse and the “oh let me get it” but its all fake – they want the free stuff and will be shocked if you let them pay.

Looking at the bill can be awkward too, what if they over charged you? What if you don’t have enough money? What if your just shocked like my friend was, she is studying your moves you know?

Rejection: I was sitting in a Chinese restaurant with a girl who I didn’t intend to see again, instead of waiting until I dropped her off she decided to ask me if we would be going out again. She was a tough girl, and she was obviously very into me – I said no and she asked why. I did what no man should ever do – I told her the truth – and it was because I wasn’t into her looks. Talk about awkward, her first question was “Is it because I’m fat” she wasn’t fat, a little chunky sure, but I had just taken her on a 15 mile hike and she survived just fine – it was that I just wasn’t attracted her, at all. I have been into girls that most of the you would have found ugly, but its all in the eye of the beholder.

I have a problem rejecting girls, I just cant seem to do it. There have been countless girls that I couldn’t bear to call and reject so I did the dumbest thing and just left them hanging – I feel particularly bad about one of them. I went out with her 3 times, before me she had never been out with a guy more than once, I felt honored to be that guy, but after our third date I moved to Dallas and never saw her again – I never called either, but luckily I hear she got engaged.

One time I rejected a girl over the phone before ever meeting her, I didn’t say I was but she asked when we were going to go out and I told her, I didn’t think she was for me. She demanded how I could know and I told her she seemed very serious. She seemed like the type to settle down on her parents block and make babies for the rest of her life and that didn’t suit me well, we argued about it, but I didn’t budge. That was easy – but after the date is tough.

One time a shadchan convinced me to go out with a girl again even though I didn’t want to. She demanded to know why I was asking her out again because it was obvious I didn’t want to – I told her the shadchan did the classic” she might be your bashert” which I hate.

{ 72 comments… add one }
  • Mark November 16, 2009, 10:59 PM

    Man, am I glad I’m over and done with all that!!!! 🙂

    Great Post!!!!! One of the top-10 for sure!

  • Karl November 16, 2009, 11:14 PM

    I once took a girl out to a fancy restaurant after 5 or 6 dates – was getting pretty serious by then. I get the check & they say, “sorry, no credit or debit cards”. I was like WTF but trying to keep my cool. The girl offers to pay, so I say OK!
    It lasted another 2 dates and then the shadchan (who we hadn’t used since the 2nd date) call & tells me that the girl says “your personality doesn’t match” – whatever that means after 8 dates.

  • JoeB November 17, 2009, 12:03 AM

    Great post… Can’t wait for you show in CH:)

  • Julia November 17, 2009, 1:31 AM

    Phone calls are horrible for me, because I’m more likely to hate someone on the phone than in real life. I just don’t do phones. There was this guy I dated long-distance who was really great and may have been a great match for me if we had lived in the same state. But the phone calls killed any attraction I had for him.

    I never pretend to offer to pay. You’re taking me on a date, you’re supposed to pay. If there’s a problem and you can’t, that’s another story, but even if I know I’m not going to go out with you again, you just had the pleasure of my company for the past hour or so, so pay up. 😉 There were a couple of times when I met someone for coffee and paid for my own drink, but those situations involved standing in line for the drink while he (who had arrived earlier than me on both occasions — two different guys, I’m just bad at punctuality when it comes to dates) sat at the table.

  • Anonymous November 17, 2009, 2:53 AM

    when i was dating (always shidduch style), when i saw awkward silence coming i would say “awkward silence in 3..2..1..” and the girls always liked that. eventually i married one of them

  • Alta Chaya November 17, 2009, 1:50 PM

    A bad date equals a great story. How about trying to meet someone without a shatchun acting as a filter? Fab post Heshie my kids came running to see why I as laughing.

  • DrumIntellect November 17, 2009, 2:49 PM

    Julia said “… you just had the pleasure of my company for the past hour or so, so pay up.” There’s a word for that.

  • Nameless Faceless November 17, 2009, 4:47 PM

    I can assure you that Loogie-Hocking is definitely not on the curriculum.

    And by the way, that’s fucking disgusting. You’re very lucky to have escaped a lifetime of that.

    • chevramaidel July 31, 2011, 8:20 PM

      I don’t know, I’d think you might have found that one to be refreshingly different. And, after all, if you say you want a girl who can pee outside anywhere, at anytime… hate to break it to you, but what you’re really looking for is a guy. And loogie hocking, farting contests, and such goings-on come with the territory.

    • OTD chick August 1, 2011, 12:52 AM

      Disgusting? Says the girl with a potty mouth!

  • crazy jewish November 17, 2009, 6:22 PM

    Regarding taxis in the city, i never had a problem with the swerving and such. However, taking a cab does lead to a good dicussion (with the frummies) whether the girl goes in first and has to slide over the seat (her skirt might pull up an inch) or does the boy enter first and then avoid the problem but then the boy seems uncaring.

    i hate it when you take the girl out to a restuarant, she orders everything on the menu, and then dumps you right after.

  • FrumGer November 17, 2009, 7:34 PM

    heshy is a cave man…….

    what girl would think it is cool for their first date with some stranger to go pee in an alley behind a dumpster? i don’t know… i always liked ladys that had a little class, not the tom boy in the closet type. but what ever suits i guess. i am glad you ditched the loogie hocker at least….

    • Heshy Fried November 17, 2009, 10:01 PM

      So were different – I like tom boys

      • FrumHer November 18, 2009, 5:14 AM

        Do you really like boys?

    • A. Nuran November 20, 2009, 6:16 AM

      Who says tomboys can’t have class?

  • Michaltastik November 17, 2009, 10:22 PM

    So, are you expecting them to come with you to pee behind the dumpster? Or… you can’t find a bathroom so you tell them wait here, I can’t hold it anymore, I’m using the dumpster.

    Farting on a date… heheheh… a guy I went out with once told me he and his friend were discussing that girls don’t seem to fart. Hey, that’s a good blog topic: women and farting…

  • lawschooldrunk November 18, 2009, 4:25 AM

    great post, Hesh.

    Initial phone call: I find that this is almost meaningless, unless you find things that you really hate (perfect vacation is doing nothing but lying at the beach for two weeks) or really like (did a 65 mile ride with her dad or hiked mt. mansfield by herself) about her. I have had phone conversations where I hung up and thought it’d be the worst date but it was a great date. And vice versa. I’ve had hours long phone calls and the 15 minute “tooth puller” and the 1 minute call where she hung up because she had more important things to do (girls like this should be hit repeatedly in the head with an open-handed slap). For some reason, I find most girls just don’t take the initiative in phone conversations, i.e. they feel it is not up to them to continue the conversation if it dies out for a moment.

    The pick up: I guess you refer to a setting like washington heights but, if you are picking up at a residential house, you don’t really have this problem.

    Do I open the car door: Yes, and girls love it. who does not like to be pampered, taken care of, and made to feel special? chivalry is not dead…

    When and how to end a date: I usually end it soon after I catch her sneaking a peak at her watch… I also like my dates to sit facing the outside window as opposed to facing inside at a wall behind me when the date starts in the hours before sunset. This gives her the comfort of knowing the time without checking her watch just by looking at the changing light outside. (this is when we are sitting across a table, obviously.) Really, it all depends on how the date is going. I usually set my phone to vibrate after 2hours and 45 minutes into the date so that if the date is going horribly, I can drive her home and not have a short date that may insult her.

    paying: Guy pays for all. it sucks but girls like it, even if the guy can’t afford it. It’s just proper. However, when I get married, I am giving my wife the bill for the cost of all my previous shidduch dates from all girls!

    rejection: it’s cheap to go through a shadchun but easier. if in person, which is more manly and authentic and natural, but harder on the emotions, tell the girl some but not all the truth. put a good spin on things. try to make it seem like it’s your fault unless you know from the date that she/he likes things straight up with no bull and can take it like a man…or woman.

    “I just don’t like buying things for people I don’t know, I love taking my friends out for dinner – but some random girl, uh uh. ” — I totally agree with that feeling but suck it up date after date. the whole system is superficial.

    And, I like tough girls, confident girls, strong girls, or tom girls too, but peeing behind a dumpster is a little beyond those typecasts. And, if you want a wife who can pee anywhere, look for the hiking girls or just buy her a “lady J” from campmor.

  • SBG November 18, 2009, 4:05 PM

    Attn: Lawschooldrunk. Id like for once for a guy not to be a sissy and to be straight with me. That is what I’d appreciate though i can’t speak for anyone else. one other thing,if the guy cant afford to buy food/drink wtvr then why is he even dating? wait till hes better financially secure. That’s just my opinion.

    • lawschooldrunk November 18, 2009, 4:40 PM

      Not all people have tough skin like you and being straight with all people can really hurt some of them.

      As to ‘can’t afford,’ I did not mean i.e. destitute. I meant someone who is frugal and doesn’t spend money on themselves because they are saving yet they have to shell out money on a stranger that they wouldn’t use for themselves. And, what if you are never more financially secure? Nothing is a given. you may never get married if you follow that path…

  • Yishai November 18, 2009, 6:36 PM

    i peed behind a dumpster while on a date with a girl (i think it was the 4th date). now i’m marrying her. when you gotta go….

  • adina November 18, 2009, 7:06 PM

    frum, why are you so cheap? i dont get it. you dont pay rent and you dont pay for dates. What exactly are you saving you money for??? girls will respect you much more if you payed for them. Can you explain it to me???

  • adina November 18, 2009, 7:08 PM

    You will never get married if you keep up this huuuuge flaw you have!! No one likes cheap bastards!

    • Heshy Fried November 20, 2009, 1:22 PM

      You obviously don’t get it – I’m not a cheap bastard – I just get how people can feel comfortable hanging out with someone they don’t know and paying for them – call me new school, but I think the first few dates should be done dutch style.

      • DrumIntellect November 20, 2009, 3:10 PM

        Agreed

      • Vicki November 24, 2009, 8:58 PM

        Disagreed…the guy should always offer to pay on the first date and the girl should respectfully decline and go dutch.

        • DrumIntellect November 24, 2009, 10:21 PM

          Interesting!

          Why the charade? What’s the logic?

          • Vicki December 2, 2009, 12:57 AM

            Seems the most fair to both parties. Either charade or tact, depending on how you look at it.

    • DrumIntellect December 2, 2009, 3:23 AM

      Disagreed…the girl should always offer to pay on the first date and the guy should respectfully decline and go dutch.

      If a girl doesn’t offer to pay, she’s a cheap bastard that no likes and she will never marry.

  • SBG November 19, 2009, 1:34 AM

    lol. A responsible guy is all i ask for…

  • DrumIntellect November 19, 2009, 2:51 PM

    SBG said “if the guy cant afford to buy food/drink wtvr then why is he even dating? wait till hes better financially secure. That’s just my opinion.”

    If the gal can’t afford to buy food/drink wtvr then why is she even dating? wait till she is financially secure. That’s just my opinion.”

  • DrumIntellect November 19, 2009, 3:03 PM

    We live in a post-gender world. Men and women are equal. There’s no reason for a man to pay for a woman or for a woman to pay for a man.
    You want to go out with a guy who pays for you, takes care of you, and will be your daddy, good for you. I’ll stick with independent-minded women who can interact with me as an adult.

  • SBG November 20, 2009, 1:17 AM

    Drumintellect… Chill out dear,I agree with what you just said. Which is why im working and going to school IDIOT!.Ive paid for dates b4 ,yup yup because im nice and considerate.

    • DrumIntellect November 20, 2009, 3:09 PM

      SBG, I was merely making the point that a guy not paying for your food doesn’t reflect on his financial situation, just as you not expecting to pay for your food doesn’t reflect on your financial situation.

  • Anin November 20, 2009, 2:20 AM

    Hi frumsatireman, I can save you a lot of money. It’s simple, if as you say the exercise of your urinary freedom (a la seinfeld) is a deal-breaker for you, just ask the question on the phone, because the vast majority of girls will not like this on a date in the city. That way you can narrow it down, save yourself a lot of dates, time and money, until you find your anytime, anywhere girl.

    I hope you thank me for this one day.

  • Anin November 20, 2009, 2:33 AM

    The point about paying is not about the money, it’s really not, it’s something else. I’m quite happy to go for a walk somewhere, or have the cheapest date, like a cup of tea, but the guy has to pay (especially the first few dates). Yep, I don’t even do the reach. I have been on first dates where I paid for myself, or shock horror, paid for both of us. It just didn’t feel right. I also don’t like it if the guy pays a lot of money on the first date. I agree that it is a waste of money to go out with someone you don’t even know if you like at all. I don’t need the guy to impress me with a fancy event. I just want to see if I like him.

  • DrumIntellect November 20, 2009, 3:00 PM

    Anin, why does “the guy have to pay (especially the first few dates)”?
    Answering that “that’s the way it’s always been” is not an answer. Give a logical reason that someone should pay for you.

  • I would date Heshy November 20, 2009, 9:14 PM

    The main reason is that he’s so honest, seriously, where on earth could I find a guy as blunt and honest as Heshy?

  • Sharona November 21, 2009, 1:00 AM

    The person who invites pays. But if the guy is too cheap for that just splitting the bill or paying for what you individually ordered is fine.

  • Anin November 21, 2009, 10:11 PM

    To DrumIntellect,

    In very broad terms, behind everyone’s lists, a man is looking for a fertile woman who will bear him children, and a woman is looking for a provider. And that is why a woman’s appearance and age is of utmost importance to a man (i.e. subconsciously he is looking for signs of fertility, health and youthfulness), and for a woman a man’s generosity on the date is important (as a sign of his ability and willingness to provide). A man’s first two questions about a woman are “how old is she” and “what does she look like”, and a woman’s first question is, “what does he do”.

    (This reality is also reflected in the halacha: a husband has an obligation to divorce a wife who doesn’t bear him children, unless he receives a heter to remain with her. On the other hand, he has to provide for his wife.)

    Before you jump on me, I know that this description is a generalization and of course there are exceptions, and the reality is that most women work in paid jobs after marriage, and on the date you want to see if you share a sense of humor, bla-di-bla, but this stuff is not just not just socialization, it’s hard-wired.

    I read your previous post in which you make the assumption that a woman who expects the man to pay is childish and dependent. I think that you should do whatever you like on your dates, but your assumption is all wrong. I am a trilingual professional, independent and maintain a home, but I want a bit of chivalry on the date. In no way is allowing a man to buy me a drink a reflection of me being feeble-minded or immature.

    So, bottom line, why does he have to pay for me? Because I won’t go out with him again if he doesn’t.

    • blueyes November 27, 2009, 8:58 AM

      Well put!

  • DrumIntellect November 22, 2009, 10:51 PM

    Anin,

    “Behind everyone’s lists a man is looking for a fertile woman”? I’m not! I doubt most men under the age of 25 are looking for a fertile woman. That’s why they so often look for women who are on the pill or who are on the 3 or 5 year hormonal treatment. That’s why Trojan and Durex make so much money. Because men (and women) do not want children most of the time.

    It’s good that you acknowledge that you are generalizing and being stereotypical. When being told about a girl, i’ve never asked either of the two questions you enumerated. (I have, however, asked the question that you think only women ask.) Not only weren’t they my first two questions, they were questions i’ve never raised or thought to ask. Perhaps that’s because my mom is older than my dad. Perhaps I didn’t grow up with this nonsense that a guy has to be younger then his gal.
    However, if you think a guy is asking how a girl looks because he wants to ensure that she is fertile….

    I’m not making any assumptions about you being childish or dependent. When you use words like “provider”, how do not see dependency?

    I don’t see how you consider it logical to say “for a woman, a man’s generosity on the date is important (as a sign of his ability and willingness to provide)” and “In no way is allowing a man to buy me a drink a reflection of me being feeble-minded or immature.” How can you depend on signs to establish a man’s ability to provide, but not depend on signs to
    establish a woman’s ability to be independent.

    Your last paragraph is true and of course there’s nothing for me to argue about it. It’s no longer an attempt at making a logical argument, but it’s your own privilege to choose whom to spend time with. Of course, the same is true for women who will only date guys who have blue eyes or who dress fashionably. Just as it’s my choice not to date women who, for no logical reason, are unwilling to accept responsibility for the food that they eat.

    (BTW, I suspect that the reason you are able to be so caviler in your last paragraph is because you know that there are many men who will indulge you. (They may seethe about it in private, but they’ll pick up your tab.) If men were more honest and open, your ability to find a sucker to pay for you would be decreased and you’d have to do what the rest of us have done since becoming adults.)

    Anyway, I wish you the best at finding what you seek, just as I wish Heshy the best at finding what he seeks. When there are so many humans in the world, it makes sense that some will seek different things.

  • Anonymous November 26, 2009, 1:35 AM

    Heshy,

    You took a Passaic girl to a local restaurant? Didn’t know such a thing existed.

  • Anonymous November 26, 2009, 11:04 PM

    No wonder why your not married. You are a complete superficial, crass asshole.

    • Heshy Fried November 27, 2009, 10:23 AM

      No you just don’t understand the fact I am writing a humor blog – do you really think I cannot keep a private and public life?

      Although most of what I write is true – the truly smart people understand my exaggerations

  • Michaltastik November 27, 2009, 10:03 AM

    DrumIntellect,
    How about you’re paying for all that time we have to take to get ready for the date. We all know that men expect women to doll up and put that crap on our face just for them otherwise they say that we didn’t put in enough effort and we must not be interested.

    Well the same is true of men paying for a woman. If a man doesn’t pay for me, I figure he’s not that interested in me. In fact, if a man wants to just take me to a bar and get me drunk on the first date-as they did before I was Jewish, I conclude he only wants sex and not a relationship or marriage.

    • DrumIntellect November 27, 2009, 11:41 PM

      Michaltastik: “We all know that men expect women to doll up and put that crap on our face just for them

      I don’t know that. I prefer people to be themselves. I’m not looking to hang out with a tube of lipstick. If I did, I’d just go to the cosmetic aisle in a local drugstore. I want an authentic experience, not the shallow lies and phoniness.

      I am convinced that women put that crap on their faces for other women and not for men.

      As for your non sequitur about getting women drunk to have sex with them, I think we can agree that in a majority of those cases the men pay for the drinks. By your definition he would be expressing interest in you. I’m sure we can agree that the men are essentially johns and the girls who get drunk are prostitutes. (Regardless of whether anything happens.)

    • DrumIntellect November 28, 2009, 2:33 AM

      Michaltastik: “How about you’re paying for all that time we have to take to get ready for the date. We all know that men expect women to doll up and put that crap on our face just for them”

      Men should pay for the time it takes for you to get ready for a date? Do men not prepare for dates as well? Who should pay for that? Uncle Sam? Why not take responsibility for your own preparations?

      I disagree with your assertion. I don’t know that men want women to doll up. I prefer people be themselves. I want to interact with people honestly without all the BS. Authenticity is not a bad thing.

      Anyway, I don’t think women put that crap on their faces for men. I’m convinced they do it to for other women. Most men I know don’t even notice when a woman is wearing the crap and they certainly have no idea how much effort goes into putting it on.

      As far as your non sequitur about bars, in my experience, men usually pay for drinks for those women. By your definition, that means he’s interested in you!
      I think we can agree that, in the example you’ve given, the man is essentially a “john” and the girl is essentially a “prostitute”.

  • Mark November 27, 2009, 11:18 PM

    In fact, if a man wants to just take me to a bar and get me drunk on the first date-as they did before I was Jewish, I conclude he only wants sex and not a relationship or marriage.

    But you have to admit that this generally works well for everyone because the women that go to bars and get drunk on a first date are also generally only interested in sex!

  • Anonymous April 24, 2010, 11:14 PM

    ever wonder what the waitresses are doing while waiting on you and there is no one else except the two of you?…well here are a few:
    -the waiters are staring at you and once they see that you noticed them they look away as if nothing happened
    – the waitresses are trying really hard not to notice you and finally when you ask for the bill you might have to get up, wave your hand to get their attention, and finally get the bill
    – pizza guy is making pizza at the same time looking thru a hole unsuspiciously looking at you…

    heshy, this might be a good idea for a new post, “wierd stuff that happens around you at the shidduch date”. already wrote some to get you started..

  • sephardicgirl April 24, 2010, 11:15 PM

    (sorry, forgot to add name)

    ever wonder what the waitresses are doing while waiting on you and there is no one else except the two of you?…well here are a few:
    -the waiters are staring at you and once they see that you noticed them they look away as if nothing happened
    – the waitresses are trying really hard not to notice you and finally when you ask for the bill you might have to get up, wave your hand to get their attention, and finally get the bill
    – pizza guy is making pizza at the same time looking thru a hole unsuspiciously looking at you…

    heshy, this might be a good idea for a new post, “wierd stuff that happens around you at the shidduch date”. already wrote some to get you started..

  • Oldsemgirl August 16, 2010, 6:14 PM

    Great post – lots of giggles. I dont think the question is whether the male ‘should have to pay or not’, its more a question of how you want her to perceive you. Paying for the meal suggests you are a sweet, mature and well-mannered guy who comes from a good family. Its flattering and girls are are attracted to that. However, i personally find it uncomfortable if the guy keeps paying for everything and i wouldnt expect him to pay after the 1st date. It makes you feel somewhat cheap

Leave a Comment