This is a lengthier version of the Vos Iz Neias comment of the day, due to the fact that the comments listed below are a great way to welcome new folks into the orthodox fold. I used to wonder why onb earth Vos Iz Neias would post articles that don’t really pertain to frummies like the following one about modern orthodox girls learning gemara in Israel – it took me some time and surfing to realize that Vos Iz Neias posts things to make Charedim look bad. In fact, if its not about Charedim busted in scandals or rioting, its a post that is carefully placed to show how closed minded and stupid those who comment on Vos Iz Neias are, think about it why on earth does the Charedi world need to know about programs like Nishmat or Brovendars, it doesn’t really make sense, besides for that it makes for more arguements.
Comments from VIN are italicized:
One of the major perakim in Bava Metzia discusses hashavas avedah, returning lost objects. How fitting would it be if these holy yiddish neshamos would likewise return themselves back to their proper place; i.e. in the home. The home that only they, the Jewish woman, can create and nurture.
A women once wakled into Reb Shach Zet’l and asked him a question in learning, so he responded by asking her; “do you know how to make a good kugle” meaning that that is ™he womens job, to cook, clean, take care of the kids, and look nice for her husband. The mans job is to learn and work.
They don’t learn that masechta. They aren’t looking for truth. If they have free time let them cook clean learn how to run a house. Read books on shalom bayis, books on chinuch and how to undertand kids. Theres so many more useful ways for them to use their time. Shame on them.
Wake up. You’re living in 21 century not 9th century ghetto where a woman was bought like property for a prutah. Roles of women have evolved in society where they can vote and succeed in careers and learning.
Very sad because a woman might intimidate you with her brilliance in Torah knowledge? This is nothing new to me because in some modern orthodox high schools girls learn gemora the same way boys do. I was very impressed with their knowledge and analytical abilities. The age old myth that women don’t have the mental capacity to analyze gemora like men do will be shattered very fast. Men will feel inferior that a wife might know more halacha than he learned in kolel. So they fear these trends.
this is soooo funny. in a commmunity full of people who force their little girls to go out and work full time jobs to support their parasite husands in kollel – the minute they hear some girls are learning the scream “but qomen belong in the kitchen…” etc.
if they belong in the kitchen then why are they the ones earning the paycheck??? let them stay home and you yungerleit get of your mediocre pilpul tuches and go support her so she can take care of YOUR bayis neeman!
This whole idea is completly against what G-d wants and stinks of yeshus and gaiva. It’s a waste of time. It’s not tznua and it’s not their avoda. Men are incapable of doing many things that women are able to do – spiritually and biologically. It’s so sad that so many foreign elements such as this have come into Judaism trying to replace it (including but not limited to: Zionism, Feminism, Socialism, “the Lubuvitcher Rebbe shlita is Moshiach-ism” and “Frumism”, e.g. not being able to sit next to one’s own wife on the bus). I hope these modern day avodah zoras stay the exception and don’t become the norm, although certain konaiyim in EY, Chabad and many “modern Orthodox” groups (whatever that means) have already “converted” to islam, x-tianity and the conservative movement, repectively.
Can someone explain why Modern Orthodox or Religious Zionist women who learn Torah are such a threat to Charedi men? Why does it strike such a nerve?
Just my own two cents, I always wondered why these people advocated for men to learn and women to work, it really makes no sense. If a woman’s place is in the home, taking her out of it to work seems totally insane. Isn’t it historically the man’s job to work and be the breadwinner. It leads me to think that the anti-learning stance that most of these people are taking comes from some sort of deeper place. Jealousy, unwillingness to admit that women have brains too – I really have no idea.
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{ 22 comments… read them below or add one }
Can someone explain why Modern Orthodox or Religious Zionist women who learn Torah are such a threat to Charedi men? Why does it strike such a nerve?
Easy one! Charedi women will never be “friends” or even acquaintances with MO/RZ men, or any men for that matter. However, many Charedi women may be friends/acquaintances with MO/RZ women. And if the MO/RZ women get regularly educated about halacha, they may spread some of that knowledge to Charedi women. And if the Charedi women get a little educated, they may begin to stand up their men more often. And that would be disaster … for the Charedi men!
I’ve got a better idea: Women should run a home business in addition to running the home. That way, they can never step outside, and at the same time, provide for the husbands to learn all day.
In return, husbands does his husbandly duties to wife as often as possible to keep her satisfied.
A win-win for everyone
Phil that’s an argument for the guy working from home. Might get some people who refuse to work to start working perhaps?
it’s not “historically” man’s role to go out and be a breadwinner, because all work took place in the home until about 150 years ago. Before the industrial revolution of the 1800s, the vast majority of people lived on small farms, on which both the wife and the husband would do the work. Women did take care of children more than men, but childhood was considered over once kids were able to help out on the farm- so it was much less of a time intensive job then it is today (when we have to raise kids to go to tons of extra curriculum activities and drive them around everywhere). Women would also work regularly on the farm, and especially worked with taking care of whatever animals the family had.
When the family were non-agricultural and had some special artisan skill, women would work equally in the business. In fact in many countries a business was not able to get an apprentice if the man was married, because it was assumed that the wife would work as much as (if not more than) an apprentice.
phil, that would require husbands to spend some time at home, not learning. Unless you mean having an open sefer on her back while performing said duties? :runs:
SB
Haosek bemitzvah, patur min hamitzva…
If you offered me a translation of the words that aren’t mitzvah, I might get your joke. I’m guessing it’s a joke.
SB,
No joke at all. It’s a general rule in halacha:
One that is preoccupied with a mitzvah isn’t obligated to interrupt to do another mitzvah.
excellent.
Heshy, allow me to explain.
Women are supposed to work, WITHOUT studying first.
Think shaitel machering. Oh right, then the indian idol hair scandal erupted .
Well think something else that doesn’t require an education.
this is soooo funny. in a commmunity full of people who force their little girls to go out and work full time jobs to support their parasite husands in kollel – the minute they hear some girls are learning the scream “but qomen belong in the kitchen…” etc.
if they belong in the kitchen then why are they the ones earning the paycheck??? let them stay home and you yungerleit get of your mediocre pilpul tuches and go support her so she can take care of YOUR bayis neeman!”
I really like this comment!
I agree, feels like someone took those words straight out of my mouth.
This is your only post tagged as “ignorant” and “closed minded”? of all the posts on this site?!
I just started using more tags – I’ll be sure to add those tags to almost all of my posts from now on!!!
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! stupid stupid.
actually its common knowledge that girls know more halachos than boys especially hilchos shabbos they learn it thoroughly in seminary because like u said they need 2 know it and yes that includes CHAREIDI seminaries and btw the reason girls are not supposed 2 learn gemara is not bec they r not as smart as men also the gemara itself says that women should not learn. 4 more info listen 2 rabbi dovid orlofsy’s speech on the subject
It baffles me why woman would want to learn in the first place! Who here would have gone even 1 day to Yeshiva if we believed we weren’t obligated to do so? Ha! I wouldn’t learn a word!
Chareidim are afraid of the monster they created the economicly viable female. for decades women have been the major bread earners and the current rulings against and about women, charedei bus lines and the like are all a direct reaction by the male establishment to KEEP WOMEN DOWN.
I think I kind of already knew that about that site vin
As a mother of two young girls I believe that old fashioned Modern Orthodoxy (from the 60s and 70s) is the only hope for girls and women. I studied mishna and gemorah because I attended a small out of town day school with classes too small to separate the girls and the boys. Sorry but nothing terrible happened. Today that would make my type an undesirable shiduch to my own nephew’s chevra. I guess when shiduch time rolls around for my girls they will have to go out of town since I refuse to raise girls who will be Stepford wives in the frum world.
Well, as other said, IF you want her to work to feed your lazy ass, you better not bitch when she goes out to learn a bit in her spare time… The rest is just bullshit.
Both Heshy and Sgt J express my opinion very well.