This was posted the other day in response to the post Is the word goy offensive?
Hello all,
I’m not sure if this will post or not. I have been learning a lot reading these posts. I have a bit of insomnia tonight and looked up the word “goyim” to find out what it meant.
My neighbor told me it was used in a temple he was planning on attending and he was very offended at its use. He told me about it (a non-jew) and so curiosity finally got me. I’ll have to say, there are other words on here that I’ll have to look into. Here is my take on the word, from what I know as a gentile.
I will not use the word as I speak English and the word “gentile” suits me just fine. I found it amusing that some who have posted here said they use goy because it’s easier to say than “gentile” or “non-jew” and they are full of it. Especially after looking at words they used in their postings in which they could have used shorter words; you know, less key strokes and therefore easier to type. Gimme a break!
I think the word use in an officious manner is ok, but the slang useage is insulting and the speaker knows in his heart how its used. If my neighbor, who is also my friend, was in the company of other jews and I came across the street and he said “Here comes my goy friend.” I would be insulted. Why not just say, “Here comes my friend.” Same as if my friend, who is black, comes to me and I’m with other friends who are white. I wouldn’t say, “here comes my black friend.” I would say, “here comes my friend.”
Sometmes differences are obvious and don’t need to be orated. Why the constant indicators of difference we put on people; jews and non-jews alike? I’m not talking political correctness because PC is incorrect.
Some of the things I read coming from jewish folks in these posts amazed me. The arrogance and notions of superiority that some have about themselves were shocking. Because one is a Jew, does not make one better than gentiles. Did we not all come from the stock of Adam? Didn’t Abraham come from the loins of the “goy” until God chose him to be set apart? Set apart does not mean superior. Didn’t anyone learn history from Nazi Germany on superiority complexes? Or the arrogance of God’s light bearer? Anybody here read what happened to Israel in Ezekiel? God will spank His kids if they misbehave and He has used the goyim to do it. Another thought that occurred to me, was that those who are having superior feelings of being jewish, should stop and look around at what country they are living in. If it’s not Israel, then they should be grateful to the gentile nation they are living in. Especially if they are being treated well. I’m not trying to sound antisemetic, I’m tired and trying to make a point. It’s like, if you want to get all uppity about being jewish and looking down your noses at gentiles, then go to Israel because that’s the land God promised jewish folks.
Now here’s someting else to chew on. I became a Christian at the age of 12. True Christians and true Jews worship the same God. The BIG difference is that we (Christians) believe the Messiah has come and will come again to reign in all His power and glory. That being said, I love the jewish nation because my Savior is Jewish. To hate jews would be to hate my Messiah. I’m also to love God with all my heart and soul and love my neighbor as myself. So because of that I try really hard not to have a prideful outlook on myself. God is not a respecter of persons, He sends the rain on the just and the unjust. And I believe He looks at the heart of how someone is saying “goy” so I’d advise you to check yourself, when using the word.
-->
{ 58 comments… read them below or add one }
Needless to say, I really enjoyed this one.
I have to agree with you…all of us need to check ourselves when we decide to be judgemental and aren’t perfect ourselves…my father was a ‘goy’ yet he was a wonderful person. My mother is a jew. Many frummies have smirked when I make that comment. All I have to say is…yes people…there are nice people outside of our community that are just as decent and kind. Free your mind!
Isn’t calling people “frummies” the same thing?
I think of it more as a term of affection…at least in the context in which I use it! If I offended anyone, I apologize, since I am frum (or almost) myself!
Not if you are one – kind of black people calling each other the N word
I am not offended by this, i just thought it was ironic the way Bella used it.
Nevertheless, when you refer to frummies you are usually referring to frum people who are different in their “frumness” than you. So it’s not at all the same as the comparison to black people.
That’s cool–though there are so many varying degrees and levels of frumness that it can be dizzying!! One term could not possibly fit that bill…
I do think it is the same as using the N word by a black in this case, because I used it as a term of affection…not at all in a condescending tone, I promise.
Btw: Bella=almostfrum.
Nice posting. For a goy.
What the gehennom is this shaygatz talking about?
haha
Unrelated…Heshy how do I put an avatar on my profile? Any easy way to do that since I cannot seem to find how to? Thanks.
I think you need to make a wordpress account to do it
I would disagree, Jews clearly believe, based on their texts that they are God’s chosen people, until Abraham we may all have been equal (or had the potential to be equal) but from that point on God’s love was given to one family. Jews believe that we are the continuation of that “choice” of God – Christians, from what I understand, see God as having made a new choice. They are more than welcome to believe that. As to our “Gentile” Friends comments that chosen implies superiority and that makes one a nazi, I would have to disagree. God’s choice demands greater responsibility greater dedication it forces no expression of superiority. The thought that superiority means one needs to kill all “inferior” races is a curious jump and is in no way demanded of a people who sees themselves as chosen.
So, chosen doesn’t necessarily mean better…
“God’s choice demands greater responsibility greater dedication it forces no expression of superiority.” Well said.
“With great power comes great responsibility”
No one said anything about power
really enjoy imput from individuals outside the community. just a friendly reminder that any inflated sense of self always benefits from a depressed or defeated ego propping it up (given the history of torment and abuse endured by the jewish community, i think an occasional gloat could be tolerated). also would like to point out that a few in the religious community (myself included) sometimes affectionately refer to j.c. as ‘imach shmo’ … so, please no more k’vetching about harmless labels.
Even though the word ‘goy’ literally means ‘nation,’ when used in conversation it very often has a negative conversation. So in a sense, I agree with this goy…er…guy.
this is why comedy is run by the jews…freakin sensitive goyim crying all over the place.gimme a break! Telling us to go to Israel!! f#*k you, ur the arrogent peice of shite! Even ur messiah was a jew (who by the way looked like a hassid!) Why cant u pick ur own from all the goys out there? Oh yeah its cause yids rock with their cut coks kiiiiidddd!!!!
“cause yids rock”
I am insulted by your derogatory usage of “yid.”
or how about SYs calling ashkenaz folks Jdubs…where the fuck does that come from? as in “Why are you marrying a Jdub Ari” *Eyeroll*
Well, to quote a misleading-but-often-useful sentence from Hayakawa, “Words don’t mean; people mean.” Until I was in my forties, I considered the word “goy” derogatory. Even after I learned the meaning of the Hebrew word, and its use in the Chumash, it was clear that most current usage was derogatory. Then I ran into people who apparently weren’t anti-goy who sometimes used the word in a context in which it was obviously not derogatory. Actually, ran into MORE people, because, in fact, my mother had occasionally used the word in the phrase “goyishe manners,” meaning good manners she thought more likely found among goyim than among yidn. As a matter of fact, I attacked her usage as anti-Jewish, to which she replied, “What can I tell you?”
Anyway, the word is used different ways by different people. Usually, its use implies something negative, if not about goyim, then about the user. But not always.
Fact # 1: Judaism deems Jews on a higher spiritual level than non Jews.
Fact # 2: Judaism deems Jews on a higher moral level.
Fact # 3: Judaism deems Jews as the chosen people.
These facts being said, the author does bring a good point about us needing to be grateful for being allowed to live and practice our religion in their land in abslute freedom. And unfortunately, many practising Jews have sunken to moral levels lower than common criminals.
As for the word “goy”, it’s by far less offensive than shaygetz or shiksa. In most cases it’s intended use is not offensive.
I think it’s all about context. When my Polish immigrant Yiddish speaking grandparents used words like goy or shvartze , there’s no mean-spiritedness or bigotry toward non-Jews or blacks. When we born Jewish Americans use these words, they do usually have whiff of these.
Rabbi Daniel Lapin doesn’t even like the term “righteous gentile” used by Jews because he feels like the phrase implies the two words shouldn’t normally go together. How’d we like it if non-Jews gave us an annual “honest Jewish businessman” award?
So true!
‘He’s a good nigger’ is not a compliment!
I am a Catholic by birth, agnostic by choice. My Jewish friends often refer to me as a Goy, and it’s done with much love. While the speaker knows what’s in his heart, unfortunately the listener may not, therein lies the problem.
IMHO, using the wordgoy is not offensive when referring to a non-Jew in conversation with other Jews. But using the word gay to refer to something stupid is insulting.
See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWS0GVOQPs0
“using the word gay to refer to something stupid is insulting”
Agreed. And using the word “gay” to refer to something homosexual is stupid.
Listen this is a site generally intended for the Jewish community. Some of what this article said may be valid however, this is not the place for it, and your tone is seriously not appreciated. Every community has its outlet and specific issues. If you are not a part of the community then it is easy to take things out of context and misunderstand comments that people make. It would be like an older person reading a teenage blog and being offended by everything. In such a case, it is mostly a matter of a generational and cultural gap. And who do you think you are telling us to go to Israel? that G-d will spank his children? I suggest you find a new past time..,. making “subtle” threats on a Jewish website is just not something a good Christian should be spending his time doing.
While I certainly don’t agree with everything the poster said, I beg to differ with your initial comment. If all you want is reinforcement for your own thoughts and prejudices, then make it a private club. As long as it is a website, it automatically invites any and all comments, both good and bad. The only way you will ever learn anything is to hear the opinions of a diverse group of people. That is the very definition of learning.
‘Private club’ and ‘isolated’ and ”reinforcement of what I believe to be true without inspection’ are all tenets of a decadent and doomed society.
My first reaction (halfway into the piece) was “yeah, he’s right”, but telling us to go to Israel if we want to be uppity is just fucking rude. Goy is not an offensive word, it’s relative to the situation you’re in.
“Since *I* speak English and the word gentile suits me just fine.” – yeah, so what? I use Yiddish phrases in my every day speech, you want a cookie for speaking English?
There’s assholes everywhere you go – it crosses social, cultural and all kinds of other boundaries. If you don’t like it, don’t go on websites where Jews are the main demographic.
How many times have I met uppity christians, been treated unfairly in the military by assholes that tell me to go to my “rituals” on friday nights, etc. I think with all the bullshit we’ve had to put up with over the years, we might be a *little* more pre-dispositioned to be proud of who we are.
To the debbie downers that have to nitpick every detail: Everything I’ve just said is open to being corrected, debated, me being told “you’re wrong and you’re stupid for this, this, and this reason” blah blah, it’s just my opinion. Don’t get all pissed.
nice shirt but check out http://www.cooljewishtshirts.com
Phil- hey man what do we need to be grateful for? we should thank the goyim to allow us to practice our religion?? bullshit. we don’t have to thank them, its not there place or anyones place to tell anyone else what religion to follow. I thank Goyim for nothing, they suddenly get nice in the past 80 years (because of guilt) after 2000 years of hate murder rape and violence, and we should thank them??? No way.
Writer of this post-
Please don’t act like christianity does not denote superiority- they all think everyone that does not bow down to there man- god is going to burn in hell for all eternity. I proudly use the term goyim in many derogitory ways- Goyisher koph, Goyta, Goyim, Goy..
see what you AS A GOY don’t understand is that We are yidden, those of us that have scruples about our religion and keep its dictums ARE DIFFERENT, we do not eat in the same places, we do not wear the same clothes (Tzitzit Yarmulke ETC) and
WE DO NOT WORSHIP THE SAME G_D!!!!
Christianity worships a false god, you have created a graven image of G-d- an idol to worship, you worship what you think G-d is not what He really is. I KNOW..- I was a born and lived my early years christian. i was an orphan and lived in many christian homes- I have been involved in penticostal churches, Baptist churches, presbitirian churches and even episcopalian churches. I went to christian private schools as a youth and probably know the new testament better than you do.
that being said- I know that christians have an aire of superiority just like any other religion, probably more so. I use Goyim, because it is a strong word with an untranslatable meaning. and we even say that secular jews that are not observant are goyishe. the term goyishe can mean you drive on shabbos or eat non kosher food. let me ask you do you drive on shabbos and eat non kosher foods? of course you do, so then the term goyishe has a great strong meaning.
secondly, To use the term Goy- can most definatly be derogitory, meaning you are different (you are) and you don’t understand us (you don’t) but conversly we understand you.
see being different is ok. segregation is ok. diversity is ok. goyim want to make everyone in the world goyim. Goyim want us to look like you. if you had it your way you would “lead everyone on this blog to Christ and let his blood cleanse us of our sins and save us from hell”..
you hate subconsiously our difference, you hate with a passion the Devil that makes us jews deny your savior.. but you don’t even know why you believe all that shit. you have never studied the founding of your religion and how it has more pagan roots than a christmas tree. you have never studied on mithra the god of the Sun who was worshipped on sunday and was born dec 25 (winter solsice) who was born of as the savior of his father athura mazda- called the king of kins lord of lords. you have never placed the similarities of a half god half man with the stories much older than yours, herecles achillies gilgamesh etc. you beleive satan is lucifer ( a tradition started in the middle ages) and really you fallow more of the teachings of paul ( a man who never met jesus) than the teachings of your jewish rabbi ( yeshua ha natzrine) Jesus. you are convinced about a brain dead religion, that can be debunked as easy as opening the new testament. you believe it blindly in and arrogantly, and the goyim set up jews for jesus campaigns to try to trick us into it. you act like jews and talk like jews to lull us into your religion. fristly they tried converting us, then they tried killing us then they just walled us in then they tried a mass extermination, and now the goytim do the most dirtiest form of antisemitism, acting like us to convert us. Goyim won’t ever leave us alone.
and we just want you to leave us the hell alone. we don’t need your apologies we don’t want anymore F#ing holocaust memorials built by you, just leave us be. you say go to yisrael? see that right there says that there is still that seed in side every goy that hates the different jews. you all hate muslims too. i have been there in church, if you go to a religious church, with principles, (not a left wing gay-fest church ) you believe i am going to burn in hell and that i am a heathen. don’t beleive me? what if your daughter wanted to marry a strict muslim?? never happen. why because you would be in fear that he would lead her astray and she would wind up burning in hell forever because she denyed Jesus’ being anything more than a prophet.
I have no problem with individuals i have many goy friends that i love dearly, the term goyim applys more to your traits, i.e. what you do or don’t do… (not eating kosher, not keeping the sabbath, not doing jewish things)
The term does not mean who you are. I don’t hate goyim, i hate the act of violating the sabbath, i hate the act of eating pork i hate the act of worshipping false gods. I love many goyims personalities and would hang out with them anytime. but then you can’t understand that because you can’t understand the term goyim, its easy to just shrugg it off and say its like using the n word, its not. but you cant be a goyim to understand that.
BUT A GOY IS A GOY.
Frumger,
Take a lesson from the Torah that teaches not to hate the Egyptians because we were “geirim” in their country, this despite the horrible slavery they put us through for over 200 years.
How much more so should we be grateful to countries like the US and Canada, that send their finest young soldiers to liberate us for the nazis, opened their doors to us after the holocaust when we had nowhere to go, allow us to live as Jews openly, and even respect our holidays.
Yes their are many antisemites everywhere, but how many other countries on the globe even tolerate us? Can you imagine a frum Jew walking to shul wearing a tallis in Damascus, Baghdad or Beirut?
Interesting post – I agree with the poster that the term “goy” is often used negatively and/or as a needless qualifier. However, I can also see why some people would be rubbed the wrong way by lines like “God will spank His kids if they misbehave” or “It’s like, if you want to get all uppity about being jewish and looking down your noses at gentiles…”
That said, I think some of the comments here have been quite harsh.
I am personally not so fond with the yiddish terms Goy, Shagetz, Shiksha, or Shvartze. Even the term “frie” ( however you spell it – for non religious Jew) bothers me a bit. These words are not often used in my vocabulary. People are people regardless of their racial and religious background. We may not see eye to eye nor have to agree to other’s faiths or ideologies but we do live in a country where everyone is free to practice ( or not worship ) their religion in any way they want to ( honor killings, female genital mutilations and human sacrifices are excluded ). We should treat each other with respect. Yes I find those yiddish terms offensive to a certain degree as well as some of the four letter expletives that some of your readers use. You know who you are and you should be ashamed with yourself if you have any shame or remorse. That kind of language belongs at a bar or a super ball game.
I couldn’t get through all the comments today (short attention span…) but the post was great. I think if we, as Jews, want to be treated equally and fairly, we need to treat our neighbors that way as well.
Now, to all the people who say we are chosen, look at the word… it could also mean tested. G-d chose us to be tested. We have a special place but so do Christians and Muslims. You don’t have to be one of them to appreciate them. I just hope they can someday feel the same way (some do… some wanna obliterate us).
We know the word chosen is a hot button… why do we use it? It just adds fuel to the fire. When my Christian friends complain to me about that I tell them about the tested part. They get that.
And as for goy… yeah, it’s just like other words that weren’t intended as nasty but have been made into insults.
Goy, shiksa, the ‘N’ word, Jew even! You can use Jew in an insulting way. Don’t be a Jew or Don’t Jew the waitress… that’s SO offensive. And like the writer says… why do we need to classify or point out our blatant differences? There is enough in this world that separates us, we should try to see the person and not the religion or skin color.
Some of these replies made me feel sick.
Phil, FWIW one can look as frum as they like in Japan and catch no static for it. Maybe a couple glances but no more than any other foreigner gets.
Chris,
Even the Chinese communists provided safe haven for thousands of Jews during WW2, and continue to allow Chabad houses to flourish in any part of their country where Jews are to be found.
As far as the deep hatred many have for “goyim”, can you blame them? A nation that has by far been the most persecuted by the church for 2000 years can’t be expected to just forgive and forget. As the term “goyim” was generally used by ashkenazim under christian rule, goyim were generally identified as mean drunk peasants ready to rob, rape, pillage and murder Jews any the the priest riled them up.
Regardless, we need to give credit where it’s due. There were many goyim that risked their lives for us over the centuries, and many lands gave us refuge when no one else would.
I dont deny any of the history of persecution and dont wish to white wash it by any means, but if nothing else for the simple reason that I’ve got non Jewish family it would embarrass me to no end were a Jewish friend to use that word in reference to any relative of mine.
Chris,
Reminds me of an joke. The Southern baptist preacher’s son decides to convert to Judaism. When he finally “comes out” to his family about his decision on the day of his conversion, they freak out. They threaten hellfire, brimstone and an eternity of damnation, aften calling and crying to all their relatives.
After a couple hours of this, the son finally says “I’ve only been Jewish for a few hours, but I’m already starting to hate goyim”.
Hey Phil… I understand your pain and sadness but you must not paint the whole religion or nation with one brush.
You call upon thousands of years of persecution… I can call on personal experiences. Having swastikas carved into my locker, people walking up to me in the hallways at school feeling my head for my horns, being called a dirty Jew bitch… all of those could make me hate Christians but I have also met some redeeming and wonderful people who are Christians and Muslims. I have Muslim friends in Jerusalem who have been close with my family for two generations. And some of my closest friends are “goyim.”
You can hate them with all your fervor and energy but that’s all you will get back… hate and bile. Try agreeing to disagree and fight the fights that are important. An ignorant child who called me a Jew bitch didn’t need the punch in the face I gave him… he needed a new minister who could teach him tolerance and that Jews are not the enemy.
Educate, don’t spit vile hatred… though I am sure you are about to spew it on me for responding to you.
Whoops! Sorry Phil…. part of that was directed and FrumGer but my computer blinked.
Okay… 0 for 2 at this point… Guess I need dinner cause I can’t focus on what my editing.
Phil,
I am not thankful to america for anything, they only liberated the jews from the nazi’s when they absolutly had to, the american jewish community plead with congress for years about what was going on, and not until it served their purpose to do so did they do anything. that is americas big plith, they come in at the last moment and when the spotlight is on and it suits their purpose and get all the credit. I should not thank anyone for “allowing me to worship” its no one’s right on earth to dictate such things. i should thank them? nu,.. should the slave thank the master for the scrapes he lays at his feet? i pay my taxes and i am due my rights as a human. America did not invent this, Magna Carta.. Habius Corpus these come from England etc etc… i am not going to thank the goyim for not persicuting me, they have no right to do so in the first place. As far as Mitzraim is concerned- dually noted. I Do not hate Goyim, I have no real problem with Goyim exept when it pertains to the treatment of Yidden. I certainly am not going to thank them for anything. But in the same token Christianity is just as elitist as anything else probably more so, we Jews say you don’t have to be one of us to have agood afterlife, but christians in the fundaments of their dogma, states that we jews will die and go to hell. that they are the new Israel, because we turned our backs on G-d. because we are so stuck up doing torah we have lost sight of G-d. how arrogant is that? how elitist is that? people can try and ignore that fact, and say let us all live together in peace, but really the christian will always try to convert the Jew so that he can save him from hell. and if he wont convert, then lets send them somewhere else so that they don’t influence our people. here is a fact, the reason jews are not treated terrible here in the us has really nothing to do with our government, it has EVERYTHING to do with the film and television industry. an industry founded by Jews that have shaped the minds of the goyim in these past 80 years. it may be a stereotype but it is true, the movie industry was founded built and currently maintained by many many jews. So really Jews are to be thanked for the freedom we have today.
Talia, listen i don’t hate anyone, i certainly don’t hate goyim. But they are different…. and to mark that difference is going to happen. the terms goyim or gentile, this is just semantics, it has to do with connotation, because i could say “your a dirty pig eating gentile… ” or i could say ” well they celebrate easter because they are goyim…” either one can be offensive or not offensive. it has to do with connotation. i will say i have used both many many times in negitive and positive ways.
Chris_b I must say i say goyim to my extended family all the time because that is what they are…
Bottom line this post is elitist, haughty, and arrogant… this little goyta learned a word that he in his goyisher koph cant understand because he is a shagetz and should use his sekel to stick to his shtick..
Frumger,
I think you are mistaken about certain concepts. You take the right to observe one’s religion in another country for granted.
When we were in charge of Israel at the time of the first and second beit Hamikdash, other nations didn’t have the right to observe their religion in our land. You had converts (ger tzedek) and semi converts (ger toshav). All had to submit to our religion, none were allowed to practice avoda zara, paganism, etc.
Throughout the centuries, most countries weren’t open to other religions practising in their lands, Jews and some others were tolerated at best, and that often changed when a new anti semitic priest, imam or ruler came into power.
America is the first nation in a long time to allow Jews to settle, practice and observe Judaism with an openess not even seen in modern day Israel. Up until about 40 years ago, resorts near Montreal (and I’m sure American cities too) still had laws prohibiting Jews from owning or renting property their.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that goyim in general are great people. I’ll be the first to spit at a church or mosque when passing by. But there are friends of Jews among the nations even if they are a minority.
Back to the goyim debate, the context is definitely the deciding factor. Nothing wrong with referring to a “Shabbos goy”, worse to refer to a “farshtunkene goy”.
“I thank Goyim for nothing, they suddenly get nice in the past 80 years (because of guilt) after 2000 years of hate murder rape and violence, and we should thank them??? No way.”
FrumGer, you are historically correct in what you say about non-Jews and also about America’s response to the Shoah.
The only reason we as Jews have ever, by our speech or in any other way “discriminated’ against non-Jews, is because:
1) Our Torah tells us that G-d told us to separate from them, not to practice idolatry, and be a highly moral and ethical people, and
2) Because of their hatred and yes–jealousy–towards us they have plundered, murdered and forced us to convert upon pain of death, and generally committed atrocities against us over the centuries.
At best, these atrocities were by inaction, as when holding back during World War II when the U.S.A. could have at least bombed the railroad tracks to stop the cattle cars leading millions of Jews to their deaths in the concentration camps.
I try to be respectful of others, no matter who they are. But I will not pretend that this history never happened. They have much to ask forgiveness for. . .
yoshke was a frum Jew and deserves respect for opposing the goyim occupiers and the goy Herod who installed himself as king in the land and the goyim who were calling themselves kohanim. paul was a strung out freak like muhammad and joseph smith who decided that he had a special revelation that no one else got. which is why the torah tells us not to believe it when one person says they have a new word from the ribbono shel oylem that changes everything. bottom line is that yoshke would hate christianity if he were alive and would have nothing to do with it, so if the putative founder wouldn’t follow it, why would anyone else.
I am amazing at some of the diatribes above…maybe because I was raised by idealistic parents (who are FFB’s believe it or not)…a lot of the terms /posts above come off as unrefined, and yes, offensive.
Frumger, I defended your viewpoint/comment on a previous post, but I can’t do so here. I am offended by it and I *am* a frum Jew.
i hold by ‘eliyahu and the example in melokhim ‘aleph at 18.27, that mocking illogical and idiotic religions is the right thing to do:
at lunchtime ‘eliyahu mocked them, saying, call with a loud voice, for he is a god. maybe he’s chatting or he is sitting on the toilet or he is on holiday. maybe he’s taking a snooze and will wake up.
also by ramba”m that it is a mitzvoh to destroy idols, mitzvoh ‘oseh #185.
there is no mitzvoh to make nochrim feel good about their idiocy and thereby help them perpetuate stupidity among Jews.
Irrespective of the blogers thoughts, I found the replies for the most part completely off base with the foul language and quite frankly the antipathy if not hatred for non Jews. While the remarks about Jews were treated over the centuries was accurate, the replies were more virulent than I would ever had expected. Most notable was the spelling, it was atrocious at best. I assume some of that had to do with the way people write on the internet, but for the most part many seemed uneducated and downright hostile.
I agree that the context in which the word “goy” is written or spoken is what determines whether it is an insult or simply an adjective, but no matter how you say it and even when I say it , it does have a derogatory connotation, otherwise, we woudn’t use it. However, by the same token, the writer makes more out of it than he should. If the word is not directed at him or his family, than why or for what reason someone uses it is simply not his concern. That doesn’t make it right, just not his concern.
Being G-d’s chosen people doesn’t mean and never meant “superior” to others. As I understand it, it means to follow and lead others to follow G-d’s precepts. Alan
“…the film and television industry. an industry founded by Jews that have shaped the minds of the goyim in these past 80 years. it may be a stereotype but it is true, the movie industry was founded built and currently maintained by many many jews.”
So you are blaming the mass of filth in movies and on TV on JEWS?
“Israel…that’s the land God promised jewish folks.”
Yes, from the river of Egypt (the Pelusian Nile? the wadi el-Arish?) to the Euphrates. Has modern day Israel openly laid claim to this area? If Israel took this region it would include now-Jordan, Lebanon, Iraq southwest of the Euphrates, Syria, all absolutely chock full of Arabs. Unless Israel faded away into the desert, it would take in Saudi Arabia and the emirates. No wonder the Arabs are hostile. Are they all “Canaanites,” to be driven out or killed?
G-d only promised restoration to Israel if she repented. Has modern day Israel repented? She is ruled, it appears to me, mostly by atheists and agnostics. How can they truly repent except they acknowledge G-d?
Sol-
no I am not blaming filth on the jews as a whole, but there is a lot of filth put in the air with jewish people behind it. just as there are a lot of jewish pornographers, a lot of jewish gonif bankers, a lot of shmaltzy lawyers, etc … these things cannot be denied, there are jews out there making chillul Hashem… i am not getting all protocols of zion here.. i am merely saying that the film and television ind. has single handedly been in my opinion the biggest race equifier, and it was an industry founded by jews.
who else brought jews to the eyes of heartland america other than the entertainment industry?? what other industry casted a good light on jews, bringing many of the comedians of the borcsht belt to the entire US. before tv and movies, there was much antisemitism in america, now its an afterthought almost. ( it does exist sure but not like it used to) why? because the so many of goyims favorite actors were jewish. then they found out- hey these guys arent so bad…
what is it with yidden that want to deny a steroetypes and immediatly jump to “thats antisemetic”… guess what wake up! read the last names on most movie credits, Go wikipedia a great deal of your favorite actors, directors, music performers, etc many are jewish!! for good or bad…
Phil- Eretz Yisroel is different. Hashem set the one true theocracy up, and that is why we could restict and dictate who and what was worshipped in the land. we has that right because we were charged by G-d to do so…. but Goyim are not charged by G-d to do the same to us.
You see your logic is based on the idea that truth and morality is relative not absolute. i believe that in the case of goyim their truth and morality is relative to their persective, not fact. the fact is that there is only one truth and that is the Torah. So then we can restrict religion in Eretz Yisroel because Hashem charged us to do so. but Goyim have no right to do the same because their truth is based on relativity, I.E. lies and falsehood. in other words its OK by G-d for us to do that, its not OK by G-d for them to do the same… unless you argue that morality is relative for yidden as well… which then why do you believe the Torah?
Dude-
totally agree with you, especially about Yoshke—- Rabbi shmuley often says that the goyim stole Jesus from us and its time we take him back, in his jewish rabbinical context of course, and not as moshiach..
Anon,
If God can set us up with a theocracy because we follow Judaism, then, according to islam, allah set them up with the same. Obviously, we believe we’re right and they believe they’re right.
Anyway, the Torah doesn’t expect goyim to be nice to us. In fact, it specifically tells us to deal with them the same way they deal with us in some places by not having pity on them, the implications are obvious.
Where do you base your theory about them having to accomodate us while we don’t have to reciprocate?
I heard a mussar shiur last night and the Rabbi basically said that Ephron publicly said he would give the machpala to Avraham for free but privately he accepted his offer – the Rabbis point – a pretty damn nasty point was that Goyim aren’t nice to Jews on the inside only on the outside – he meant it too.
OOPS I WAS THAT ANON A COUPLE POST BACK, I was using a different computer and forgot to fill in my name..
phil– again, you are speaking as if truth is relative. the goyim have set up theocracy in the past the roman catholic church and eurpoe, the ottoman empire for the muslims, these were theocracies. but they base their right to do so on falsehoods. that is why it is ok for us, to set one up and not the goyim, because we worship the one true G-d, they worship an image of G-d that they have created, they have formed and shaped G-d into something he is not, which to me is the basis of Idol worship. That is why we have the right to do something, and they do not.
about your question about accomodation and reciprocity… we have to acommodate many things that they do not. we have to eat kosher, they do not , our men have a brit milah, theirs do not. we have a great deal many things we have to do that they do not. so i would say that in the terms of fairness, its our right to be leaders, we are chosen to be so. our we better, No.. different yes. are we their leaders, yes. do we have spiritual authority on this earth and on the people in it, yes. just as a manager is set incharge of his workers from the owner, so to us with the nations of the earth.
Goyim don’t have to be nice to us, sure, but they are supposed to be. they don’t have to be nice just like i don’t have to be shomer shabbos but that doen’s mean i would not pay for it if i was not. they will pay for their cruelty. they will. here or there, now or later they will pay for it.
Frumger, you have a serious problem. You really should get mental and spiritual guidance. The hatred that spews forth from you is frightening.