My old hometown of Rochester, NY has gotten its first breakaway minyan, it was only time in such a politically charged Yeshiva Run town, but it’s a unique case. Someone wanted to start a yeshivish style minyan in the main black shul that would start at 7:45 have a hot Kiddush with booze and have no speech – it would end at 9:30 and like all good yeshiva minyans, everyone would go home and go to sleep afterward, simple right?
Not so simple considering everyone took leave of the main minyan which starts and 9am and drags on for 3 hours and went downstairs, they didn’t want to sit through old men singing the same old tunes and a speech – they wanted to daven and go to sleep. The shul became split over the issue and it was eventually solved when the new and successful minyan (which in my view is good for the shul and brings others in) agreed to pay for a new heating and air conditioning system.
I am sure this happens in countless communities, the difference is that in Rochester a relatively small community with maybe 250 shomer shabbos families, they decided to do it the mentchlachkeit way and keep it within the shul, instead of just opening up a basement shul. To me the proliferation of shuls and yeshivas in many frum communities seems like a hindrance to fund raising and keeping communities together, they seem to be splitting communities and channeling funds away from larger institutions.
Should there really be a yeshiva on every corner and a shul in every garage in Monsey, Lakewood and Brooklyn? It seems to me as if every time a parent is pissed off at their shul or yeshiva they just decide to open up their own shul or yeshiva. It seems to me, I could be wrong due to my ignorance of finances, but a larger institution would be easier to run than a small one.
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To a certain extent, a larger shul with capitalize on economies of scale better than a small shul will; however, as the shul grows too large it may cease to be better able to serve a community than two would.
I wouldn’t necessarily classify many places in upstate NY proper as big enough for two, though.
everyone needs 2 shuls, one you go to, and one you don’t!
bad joke of the day:
Did you hear about the Jewish Robinson Crusoe?
When he was rescued, they found that he had built 2 shuls–The one he davens at, and the one he won’t go near!
what about the break away minyan in the yeshiva?
rochester needs a breakaway young cool people minyan.
I think the problem is that a lot of Yeshiva graduates have nothing else going for them, nor do they want to do anything else. And so they become a Rabbi, and as such, they feel the need to have their own Minyan.
This, in my opinion, creates more problems by creating a lot of little shules each one straggling to have a minyan.
In my opinion the problem is that the institutions have gone from serving communities to becoming the community, and thus becoming an end unto themselves. This is played out in a number of ways with numerous circumstances… however I think this is also what leads to the breakaways. Shuls and Yeshivas start to do what is best for them, and not best for the community which leads to enough people being pissed to actually break away.
As a perfect example take when the Motzes Gedolim of the Agudah fought against the child abuse laws of New York because their passage could hurt instiutions. Did anyone ever stop to notice that to be on the Motzes council and a leading member of the Agudah they have to be the head of a large institution. In other words while the law may have been better for the community and the children, it could directly affect them and their institution in a negative way, so it had to be stopped.
No. I think the sooner many of these big institutions fall, the better.
Very interesting post, Hesh, and I devoted a post to the above comment by HaMekubal.
Shavua Tov
http://jacobdajew.blogspot.com/2009/10/should-they-fall.html
Ummm…250 frum families in Rochester!?! Not now and not in the past 20 years. Reality, less then half that figure.
frum is relative my friend, but people who keep a kosher kitchen without all the chumras
I’m all for opening a shul on every corner.
Gemara says that “competition” is good when it comes to Torah, Mishna says more yeshivas = more wisdom. I imagine shuls are in the same category.
When people get fed up with their shul, they aren’t able to daven properly because they are on edge. You also tend to get the stupid politics, slander and arguments.
so everyone that goes to the shul is black?
ha in crown heights in the past 5 years at least 10 shuls have opened up for the rich modern married people for the not so rich a little less modern people a class shul a few apt building shul’s etc by the way I am going to Tzfas for Yeshiva tonight any one know of cool,interesting,fun things to do there with out a big chance of getting in trouble with the Yeshiva
The point is well made but example is problematic. Any BHH breakoffs of that sort must have been well orchestrated by gun totin’ house expansion sylvan influences, not cuz peeps want a yeshivish davening. Hesh, u were there, u know the game over there. They obviously don’t like the Rav, again….
I belong to a one shule town in NJ. At first I believed the Hashkama minyan was a good thing, faster davening, men can go home to watch kids so wives can come to main minyan, a quieter minyan. But now, it has become an “us” & “them” mentality and the people who run the earlier minyan want to run it as if it were not part of the shule community. I find it a little sad. Instead of it being a positive thing, it has become a divisive tool of a few.
Is it true that if you have a minyan in your house you don’t have to pay property taxes since it becomes a house of worship?
Yochanan,
Depends where you are. In Canada, any portion of your house used exclusively as a shul becomes exempt. If you use it for other purposes as well, the exemption is only valid for the amount of time that it serves as a shul.
in my shul the rav is boring and the genious banned booze,not to mention he loved banning all sorts of things. so half the shul opened a new minyan with drushes only at the kiddush and plenty of booze. now the genious wants us back, he promised no speeches,plenty of booze and he will be liberal and makil….lost my respect for him, if i have a rav i want a real one.
can you blame us for breaking.?
I don’t think breaking off is good for small communities. They need to reach a certain sustainable size to be strong. On the other hand, I think overall that davening should be shorter. Dragging it out doesn’t help kavanah. I think 2 hours is a good length for a regular Shabbos. Even if it has a speech, it should not be more than 10 minutes.
Considering the age of the Rochester community, it’s hard to believe that only now a group has broken away.
I was recently in the Great Neck Synagogue and remember that over 40 years ago, when some wanted to start a “youth” minyan, quicker Israeli style, people were upset. Now Great Neck is full of dozens of MO shuls, and the GNS building, enlarged, has a number of different minyanim in various rooms.
Even in our Shiloh neighborhood shul, with a smaller population than Rochester, we have a variety, including one we call the “porshim,” the breakaway…
For the sake of accuracy I must post that canadian tax rules are not nearly that simple and clearly not as phil claims in many provinces (maybe ontario or quebec but not the rest of real canada). .
Canadaeh,
The rest of “real Canada”? You trying to rustle a loons feathers or knock down a beaver dam? Vive le Quebec with our maple syrup and poutine!
I’m no tax expert, I just enquired once as I thought I could write off the house by having a minyan in my basement, that’s what I was told.
I think breakaway minyanim are a positive phenomenon.
Considering the growth rate of jewish-orthodox population, they all will be full a few years later. So why not prepare in time?
What does faster davening mean?
No speeches and chazonos, I understand. More speed, less kavono?
#23yuyu. Orthodox Jewish Growth is a concept not applicable to Rochester unless referring to house size of certain homes on Sylvan Rd.
The Yeshiva’s High School is very chilled out, an affiliate of Yeshiva Chofetz Chaim, if you know someone needing a little bit of a chilled out lay back a little bit, type of High School thats the place, the Beis Midrash and Kollel are serious, there both average.
Hesh,
I thought you were from the UWS, that’s what you always say. Then you write stuff and sound like you grew up in Flatbush.
Another thing, you forgot Kew Gardens Hills which also has MANY many Shteibles (basement and non basement but the same size). Incidentally, KGH is a really tight knit community. They have just around 40 shuls/shteibles.