I know its not the right parsha, but I just wanted to show you how crazy and creative some folks can get when it comes to taking the parsha and allowing all types of folks to understand it, not just those who wander through the stone chumash during laining. I love you Punk Torah!
Punk Torah
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{ 42 comments… read them below or add one }
Punk Torah is amazing! I love how Patrick is able to find new meaning and messages in Judaism.. and mixing music with it just makes his Divrei Torah even more enjoyable. Keep up the good work!
I heart PunkTorah! I love how Patrick is able to inject new life and concepts into the Torah portion and keep it interesting… if only my rabbi was a Punk rocker, maybe I wouldn’t fall asleep during his shuir…. Keep up the good work!
Punk Torah
Your are quit intelligent and entertaining but VERY under educated. You start off y saying how the Torah continuously repeats the same thing for no apparent reason, but then you say that the Jews were not in the desert for 40 years.Are you an f-in moron.DO YOU HAVE ANY IDEA HOW MANY TIMES THE TORAH SAYS “40 YEARS” EXPLICITLY!!!!
If you want to come off like an intellectual you better be educated!!!!!!
here is another classic super long rant from frumger—
What?!! the Torah Repetes itself for a reason, because everytime it says that “same thing” it is actually saying something else and it wants you as the reader to understand that there is a new angle to the understanding to be had or it is trying to say that this precept is important i will repeat myself so you will remember it….
and how can you equate you fathers walking distance to the desert timeline?? i mean everyone out there reading this, you all now how old you are.. nu?? its simple the children that were born when they left Mitzrahim would have been 40 year old men by then… someone might be wrong in a distance traveled but I know how old I am, compaired to when I was a small boy. Poor Analogy.
Let get some real Frum satire in here, that was
1. not educational at all
2. that person does not know his Torah Shtick 3. It was not in the slightest bit funny or even amusing in any way
4. that blog in general is sooooooo pretentious!!! that guy does these d- bag blogs trying to be interesting, different and hip and cool and” look at me i blog and I am a punk- guy- emo-ed out- cool guy… but i know Torah too, so that makes me a EVEN COOLER- emo-ed out punk- cool- guy. Its like those people that go to starbucks with there laptop so others can see them writing and being “artsy”. ( family guy reference) Garanteed that guy tells everyone he meets that he video blogs within like 10 minutes of the conversation.
that blog is like that one fat kid in skinny jeans that just should not ever wear them, but if you go to any hipster artsy hang out there always is a group of like 5 emo kids all with skinny girl jeans on then… yep theres the token fat one tailing behind because those jeans are so dang tight he can even move in them. its like- guy, help your self out, pick a different genre!! this one isn’t working for you.. only skinny heroin chic dudes can pull that look off! Your thighs look like two water ballons! one hard squeeze and its over man! get some wide leg jncos like all of us skater kids from the 90’s used to wear… or the super big 42in waist old man cordorouys we used to get at the good will.
bottom line that post was pretty much filler meat. oh.. “some jew out there that thinks the Torah is exaggerated and boring,and wants to write about it. same old story, nothing- new, interesting, or other.
I know your on vaca hesh but bring something good to the table your children are hungery!!
My children are hungry eh? I feel honored – but I do love what Patric from Punk Torah does.
here’s another reason for why the Torah is repeating itself: the entire sefer devarim (ahem, deuteronomy) is Moses’s last speech to the children of Israel before he dies.
Please, look at the commentary before you make your assumptions
did anyone else realize how he keeps referring to the “authors” (in plural) of the torah… anyone who thinks this is a dvar torah probably thinks the new testament is too
you hire for attitude, not skills. skills (and torah knowledge) can be taught/ learned/ increased in even the greatest learners. no one’s hiring anyone, here, but patrick’s not a pretentious f. please take the yankee jew sticks out of your asses and realize not everyone has the many Jewish educational opportunities that those of us in the NY area do.
Living Torah (as in, an alive, vibrant one on which new perspectives can be offered) is a wonderful thing, and he’s on that. He may not say it like folks do up here, but he’s on to something, and I like it a lot. And he’s more of a mensch in 3D than anyone who is willing to rip on him or his clothes from behind the safety of their keyboards. His takes may not be your cup of tea – okay – don’t read them. Life is too short for such unwarranted animosity.
sb- what are you talking about… hire what? i am trying to understand what you are talking about hire.. attitudes… skills what are talking about? No one is ripping your apparent BFF. if there is a shul in in his town there is all the education he needs, the shul will have every book that is relevent to torah study. probably not a good idea to do a parshah commentary if you aren’t educated. you don’t have to go to yeshivah or cheder to know that one the Torah was written by moshe. not moshe and friends. two the Torah has a purpose for everyhting it says, it is an etz chaim. these things are pretty basic. not going into the Ein Sof or anything.. i dont have a problem with St patrick, if he is yidden then baruch hashem may he have good health. the blog is pretentious, anyone that names a blog “punk torah” is suffering from being a major douch. i am not condeming him. i here its contagious. he probably picked it up from a coffe shop, those places are infested with it.and believe me no animosity, here I say fine ok whatever.. some yid reads Torah like a goy, it ain’t the first time. its not him i am against at all. i think nothing of him. its more global than just one kid from the south. (btw i was born in the north sure but have lived in Boone NC, Nashville, Tn, and Louisville, Ky so take your yankee stick out of your ass)
patrick might be a nice guy so be it. the founder of menchlikeit?? yasher koach.. its not who he is i am writing about its much bigger than him its an epidemic.i mean have you been to a single mall in america that doesn’t have a hot topic? who the hell shops there enough to keep those stores in business ? why the hell do we need one more twilight tshirt in the world? or how bout A&F for that matter, don’t even get me started on those ‘tards… if i see one more yutz wearing flipflops in the winter I may go insane. my generation friggin creeps me out. am i alone in this opinion? has anyone seen the jonas brothers ever? that is whats wrong with that blog. that blog is the Jonas brothers of Parshot Commentary… period.
If your beef is beyond one person, why not do a guest post or do a blog of your own, rather than take it out on one individual? (Oh, wait; that would be logical.)
I am not very familiar with the Jonas Brothers, nor am I of their generation, but I know a teenager who likes Adam Lampert’s (sp?) singing, and the covers of his I’ve heard are absolutely atrocious (imo). I only h0pe that the people who hear his versions of older songs as their first exposure to them eventually check out the originals, or at least other covers.
Hilarious that you can refer to someone as a major douch [sic], then say you’re not condemning him (okay, you’re not, it’s just pure lashon hara; hey, I contradict myself sometimes, too; I’m human). BFF? I’m not 12 years old, but that’s funny.
Sorry you didn’t understand my metaphor. I’m running on little sleep and wrote that at a rest stop (happily home now). Apologies to anyone who didn’t understand the idea that someone can learn more Torah/about Judaism, but a love of Torah/for Judaism isn’t something one can always pick up by taking some classes or reading lots of words in books or online.
If you don’t like today’s music, I suggest checking out The Who, The Beatles, Led Zeppelin, The Rolling Stones, and Neil Young and Crazy Horse; and Shlomo Carlebach.
Best wishes for you to find inner peace that shines from your inside out and is reflected in the way you speak/write about others.
Food for thought,- when you say”he’s more of a mench in 3-d than any…” We actually we live in 4 -d Matrix at least.. and some say we could even be in as much as 6-d but only four have been officailly dicovered you obviously know the first three- Length- Width- Depth of course. but what people forget is that we all exist in- space time, which is the 4th dimension. a cube in a cube or maybe a wheel within a wheel… Its a common misconception, and a very interesting subject to get into if your into that at all..
what bothers me is that I replied to your post the other night, but apparently it didn’t go through. Punk Torah is about as much of a hipster endeavor as Frum Satire is. It’s okay if you have issues with the pop culture tastes of today’s young people, but it’s not okay to dierct your anger and hated of the tastes and choices of many at one person (who has nothing to do with any of that). I hope you find some inner peace soon.
S B look man its not that i don’t have inner peace, its that i am not a dead fish. i am alive i have opinions i try and stand up for stuff. i went to his website watch his vids and it seems pretentious to me. look at me we’re the outkasts, we’re creative, we’re too cool for shul oh well. i dont have a problem with patrick, hes just a poser jew. so are the reformers and and the reconstructionist, any group that love to have that tag of judaism next to there name but do not want the responibilities attached to it. that is a poser. oh i struggle with this or oh i struggle with that… give me a break. you either do it or you don’t. some things are up to interpretation, some are not. i say if you don’t like judaism the way it is and is intended to be, then go be a budhist or what ever but drop that term judaism from your mouth, i practice judaism but i don’t believe in G-d. What? i practice judaism but i dont believe the Torah is binding. what? No you dont practice Judaism. thats not Judaism you are a poser. you are a Jew but you don’t practice Judaism. stop saying you do because you think it is cool or that your different. to reinterprete what G-d said through Moshe is to make a graven image of Hashem because in your own mind you have molded what you think G-d is or should be. you have created your own little version of G-d that is just an idol, fake phoney. and idol worshippers are like the worst thing you can be in the Torah, read it. we justify things like- oh he just has a new spin on things, he has a creative way of reinterpreting it. that is idol worship, worshipping a god that does not exist because you have made him up in your own head.
So much to reply to!
First, mad love to Heshy (dude Monsey IS the shit I was there this morning at Avenue R scaring the shit out of some black hatters).
OK here goes..
Eti – I love you too!
Bsamim Smoker – there is no archeological evidence that the Hebrews wandered the desert for 40 years. Also, I never claimed I was a yeshivish Torah expert. I’m an ordinary guy who believes in G_d and the Torah.
FrumG – the 40 years in the desert probably didn’t happen. but it doesn’t matter because eastern writers weren’t interested in western history, they were interested in metaphors, context, spiritual lessons, etc. looking to the Torah for history is like looking at a Waffle House menu for diet advice. also, im not a fan of emo. i like 80’s hardcore, indie rock, 77 punk and some Americana kinda stuff. i take major offense to the idea that i think the Torah is boring. if i thought it was boring, I wouldn’t read it, blog it or frankly, live it.
Flipped Out Fish – you’re right
Anonymous – any good scholarship shows that there were several contributors to the Torah. i would argue that the strength of the Jewish people is that we allow constant growth and change to our culture, religion, philosophy, art, etc.
SB – thanks!
FrumGer- I’m not sure exactly what you’re upset about? I bet if Hot Topic sold pictures of the Rebbe you’d probably feel different about it…ha. Since you’re not a huge rock and roll guy, I’ll steal from Topol from Fiddler On The Roof and say that “our old ways were once new,
weren’t they?”
Also, if you think I’M a hipster, then you’re really out of touch. I don’t wear skinny jeans, i won’t pay more than $10 for a shirt and I sell menorahs for a living. Totally uncool.
Patirick- Firstly i am pretty sure hot topic will never have pictures of any Rebbe in them. secondly the skinny jeans quote was an anaogy of how your blog is, i wasnt refering to what you actally wear. your blog is like a that fat kid in skinny jeans… you might not pay more than 10 dollars for a shirt but you definatly are a hipster i have seen pictures of you so that is undeniable. by hipster i mean anyone who is really concerned with looking artsy, punk, emo,skater, hip hop etc. it can be any subgenre of the so called counter culture, frankly its all the same to me. Its all pretentious to me. Don’t worry i think men putting curlers in or getting perms for their peyos is just as vain. there is just much more to worry about. i don’t care how you dress in all honesty but what you are doing is not judaism, it tears down the yiddishkeit in my opinion. maybe it causes kids do go OTD and that to me is wrong. uphold what your ancestors died for. that is just my opinion im intitled to it like you are yours. i will say this patrick you are yiddin and you are my brother so i respect you as that publicly. i think the blog and the videos you promote are antiethical to the faith, doesn’t mean if i met you i would not give you the clothes off my back as another yid. This has nothing to do with that.
lastly there are as many scholors that will tell you that the Torah has a single writer as scholors that say there was multiple writers. it depends on who you are listening to. because these same scholors that are trying to prove the Torah is written by multiple authors, are right in bed with universities that tell you there is no G-d and we are all here by happenstance. (i am not against universities but there is a lot of drek that comes out of them) these so called scholors that you are referencing are trying to destroy something you say you believe in.
what are you going to bring up as evidence for multiple authors? the use of two names of G-d? Elohim and Hashem? that is weak arguement. there are many more names for G-d ontop of those. you know these same scholors you base this on also say that the Torah was written in babylon. they also said that daniel was written around 1-100 CE until the dead sea scrolls busted that one. scholors say stupid stuff all the time that doesn’t make it true. All science relies on a great deal of presumtion and assumption not actual fact. scientist don’t like the variables that the gaps in there theories produce.so they fil those things in with crap they make up. nobody really knows this is how this groups was or that is how that group was. they make that stuff up. the Torah has as much chance of being right as any scientific theory, there is a great deal of faith invovled in both. so i choose to believe in what the Torah says. And i have a spritually fullfilled life for it. these scientists have you ever listened to them? they are miserable people. they are all alchoholics and coke heads, that is for real. they are unhappy. they have an agenda just like a religious scholor does. they preach propaganda, nothing more. there is actually more evidence for intellegent design then there is the idea of evolution and us being here because a series of unconnected anomolies. but all you here is the propoganda because our society tells everyone you must go to college to get a good job so you must go sit in these classes that preach this shit.. they are out to prove the Torah wrong because that makes them feel better about the life they live, they don’t want to be accountable to it.
you say there is no evidence that they lived in the desert 40 years?Pah. over the span 3500 years 40 years is a blink of an eye,of course there is not a lot of data. they were only there 40 years! the thought of a tribe nomadically moving from place to place over thousands of square miles over short period of time where would you look to find fossil data?? they didn’t build stone homes for us to dig up– they lived in tents.. they didn’t bury there dead in tombs for us to find– the dug a whole dropped them in.. they did not embalm the bodies at all so why would there be much fossil data?look for pottery? they probably brought it into the land with them. 40 years is nothing, especially if the group didn’t put down roots in one place and build stone cities.
patty stop listening to these so call scientists, scholors, professors etc. they have an agenda. they see everything through a pink glass and scream everything is pink! these are the people saying there is no G-d because Darwin told them so, what is funnier the more we learn the harder evolution is possible. these guy love to hear thereself talk, love to read what they published love to feel superior to every that dares to believe in G-d.
you say you believe in G-d and Torah- well the Torah says that G-d gave the Torah to Moshe. that is Judaism.
frumger wrote: [these scientists have you ever listened to them? they are miserable people. they are all alchoholics and coke heads, that is for real. they are unhappy. they have an agenda just like a religious scholor does. they preach propaganda, nothing more.] (and, btw, I’m a woman, frumger.)
So, let’s see, you think all these guys are alcoholics and coke heads? (copied and pasted from ishiur dot com)
—–
The Association of Orthodox Jewish Scientists is an organization devoted to the orientation of science within the framework of Orthodox Jewish tradition. The organization aims to assist those endeavors which will help improve the Torah way of life for Jews throughout the modern world, both intellectually and practically.
Founded in 1948, AOJS serves the Jewish community in areas to which the Orthodox scientist is particularly qualified to contribute. The Association also provides an intellectual meeting ground for persons who, by virtue of their professional qualifications, interests and activities, can contribute to the constructive incorporation of scientific knowledge and thinking into the Torah way of life. It unites the common interests of Orthodox Jewish scientists throughout the world.
Speakers afiliated with AOJS included in iShiur are: Dr. Abraham S. Abraham; Dr. Charles Bahn; Dr. Alan Bernett; Rabbi J. David Bleich; Rabbi Dr. Irving Breitowitz; Dr. Lawrence Bryskin; Rabbi Dr. Reuven Bulka; Rabbi Dovid Cohen; Rabbi Nachman Cohen; Rabbi Tzvi Flaum; David Fox; Rabbi Chaim Gibber; Dr. Aaron Glatt; Rabbi Dr. Stuart Grant; Dr. Richard Grazi; Rabbi Josef Grunblatt; Dr. Steven Herschhopf; Dr. Tzvi Ingber; Dr. Baruch Jacobs; Dr. Samuel Juni; Rabbi Dr. Bernard Lander; Dr. William Low; Rabbi Reuven Mann; Dr. Hannah Parness; Dr. Robert Pollack; Dr. Fred Rosner; Dr. Robert Schulman; Rabbi Dr. Shapiro; Dr. alan Shulman; Dr. Joel Verstaendig; Rabbi Tzvi H. Weinreb; Leonard Wiener, Esq.; Rabbi Chaim D. Zweibel, Esq.
—–
Wow, man, those are some steep allegations. And you know what? My mom was a research scientist and professor of physiology for many years — some of her work helped make heart medicine for people. She must be an alcoholic and a coke head, too.
If you were as careful about what comes out of your mouth (or keyboard) as what goes into your mouth, the world might be a better place.
May your Elul and year to come be chock full of ahavas yisroel.
Obviously i was talking about these scientist that are out to destroy the Torah, the Idea of G-d, religion in general. they are miserable people so fierce in their hated of religion, and yes many college professors and scientists are are drug abusers,obviously i was being hyperbolic, there are many great scientists out there sure, but the reason i stated that is because lay people think that if a “scientist or professor” says something than it must be true. they are not always right and you can trust there opinion about as much as anyone elses. many of these guys are looney zealots , and many of them are doped up all the time. not all of them but enough of them to make a point. most of the scientists i am talking about is not you general lab work scientist working at a chemical company. i am talking about guys in the public eye like sam harris richard dawkins christopher hitchens michel Onfray etc… i cant stand guys like that. Dawkins now believes that life could have came here from aliens placing life on earth. how crazy is that? he is the leading athieistic scientist. any way no offense to your mother or father, and i certainly was not talking about the AOJS
FrumGer – I guess I’m cooler than I really am, because honestly I’m not terribly interested in how I look. If you watch my videos, you’ll notice that most of the time I’m in my bedroom in a dirty tee shirt with my hair messed up. But that’s fine. If I look hip and arty, that’s great…because I am sorta an artsy guy. Hell, I suffered through the flu today to go to the Metropolitan Museum of Art.
I think the spirit of our tradition is innovation, and that’s what I’m upholding.
As for colleges, I went to college (graduated in 2001) and no one every told me there was no G_d. In fact, I became more religious because I took Philosophy of Religion and realized that I could not argue away the existence of G_d.
“All science relies on a great deal of presumtion and assumption not actual fact.” Like gravity, jet propulsion, anatomy, biology, medicine?
“these scientists have you ever listened to them? they are miserable people. they are all alchoholics and coke heads, that is for real.” Like Albert Einstein?
Please don’t call me Patty. It’s derrogatory. And an amusing side note to that, the Gemarra says that if you call someone a name that they do not wish to be called, you give up Olam Haba.
I believe that the Torah and the Jewish People have the greatest, revolutionary attitude toward life that has ever existed. My life is better because I am Jewish. I cannot imagine my life without G_d. On the other hand, I also know that G_d is greater than biblical literalism. My faith does not rest on Adam and Eve, 40 Year Exodus and David/Goliath…my faith rests on the mother who loses a son but is able to move on through the power of community, the man who loses his job but believes that G_d has something better for him, etc. The Jewish People are responsible for this, and that is why I choose to be Chosen.
As for Dawkins, it’s no crazier to think that life came from another planet than it came from an omnipresent G_d. But science and religion are different: science is about disproving evidence to arrive at theories, religion is about fulfilling your destiny as a human being.
The only thing cooler than Punk Torah is Can Can! Patrick is definitely my secret stalkerish crush I love.
stacy, you comin’ out tomorrow?
Listen Patrick
i don’t know what college you went to but all ask any frum yid that goes to college it fills your head with goyisher ideas, many frumkeit go OTD, partying sleeping around, etc. it happens all the time.
as to science,
this is not something you want to argue with me about, because you will lose. you think you know but you don’t. obviously the range of science is as broad as it deep. i am not talking about quantium physics thermo physics, momentum or other. i am talking about anthropology archiology etc… 40 years ago they where sure that dinosaurs where cold blood scaly skined reptiles, now they think they where warm blodded and many had feathers. what i am saying is no one really knows, they speculate nothing more. take the super famous “LUCY” example. they have built a whole race of people off of a jawbone and a few other fragments of bones. nothing more. there is so much presumtion in these fields of science its crazy.. as well in all other fields. take your boy Einstien (who i love) even he was wrong in his assumptions, and bell theorum probed that. the idea that the universe came into existence because a supernova exploded is Lemintiere’s idea nothing more- there is no actual proof of it. the whole theory is relying on an assumption that the univers is homogeneous. but either way i was not talking about Einstien he was at least a Deist. I am talking about those who make it their goal in life to destroy religion.As to Dawkins that is what i am saying- the guy has come to an end of a rope because life could not have started here on earth without outside help, but he refuses to believe that there could be a creator, a G-d. about your religious beliefs you should probably consult an orthodox rabbi, because what you are doing is not judaism. by creating your own judaism you are in fact just creating an idol in your mind at what and who you think G-d is. G-d gave the authority of the Torah to Moshe then Yeoshua then the Judges then the Navim then the Sanheidran and ultimatly now the the Rabbim. you don’t have the authority to reinterprete the Torah. Choosing which way you are to be chosen is a flawed sentence. The word chosen implys that a third party made a decision for you. your not in the decision factor. G-d said do my Torah or I will bury you under this mountain. Period. the Spirit of Judaism is obediance to the Torah, which is Biblical Literacy and which is G-d’s words. Sorry for calling you Patrick your right it was derrogatory..
I don’t think science is out to destroy religion. I don’t think it ever could. Because science isn’t really interested in the questions that religion ultimately answers. I think people like Dawkins get militant because they believe that scientific progress is hampered by people who claim ignorance in G_d’s Name. And I would argue that it is Chillul Hashem to not want to explore and understand G_d’s world and learn everything that we can. So what if we discover things that contradict the Torah? How would that, in any way, destroy one’s faith? Like I said, my faith is in G_d, not Adam and Eve, the Exodus Story, etc.
“by creating your own judaism you are in fact just creating an idol in your mind at what and who you think G-d is.”
I think that G_d gave us powerful minds and the ability to use them. Not using them, not questioning, not having a passion for understanding G_d, the world around us, Torah, etc…is a sin against G_d. From reading the Torah, I gather that G_d welcomes us to be fully human. I think far too many people cry “rabbi, rabbi what do I do” when they are just as capable as anyone else to come to their own conclusions on things.
“the Spirit of Judaism is obediance to the Torah”
OK, cool. So the next time I walk past a gay bar, I’ll make sure to kill the people in there because their blood will be on them. And while I’m at it, I’ll carry some rocks with me so that if I luck out and see an adulterer, I’ll throw some rocks at his head.
FrumGer- Stop judging! You’re not Hashem and you don’t know what truly goes on in each persons life and mind. I highly doubt that the hipsters have the anger towards you that you have towards them. Whatever happened to 70 faces of Torah? There are many different paths in this world, and just because some people choose a path that appears to be based mostly on dress and music, doesn’t make them a target for you to point your hatred towards. If they bother you so much, then maybe try to speak to some of them, at least then you’ll have something to base your dislike on.
Firstly in order to kill anyone a judge would have to be in place, no man can kill another for any reason, only a judge like Moshe can decide that outcome.
you mistake me on science, i am a HUGE proponent of science and i think science effectively proves there is a G-d. i explore all these things and i want people to discover, but in my opinion some branches have leadership in them that are extremely bias the other way and that same leadership IS out to destroy religion. the big problem is that that leadership have the largest mouths and a lot of ears listening.So everyone takes their version at face value when in reality their theories have holes and incomplete data all throughout. not that science in general is wrong- not at all- scientific method is the best way to approach a thing. but many scientists stretch bend twist things to fit in there ideas into a no G-d darwin box and that to me is kind of bull crap because people give them the utmost trust that what they say is right. The Torah is perfect and if someone keeps looking science will back that up.
As to going to rabbaim, read Mishley man its all about listening to wise council the very first chapter even says it! and its all through there a constant theme that we should seek the wisdom of older wiser men. No one can be a jew on an island, we are a group, a tribe, community, no you absolutly can not just make up your own stuff. sure you can question things that is perfectly fine, but its seems to me that men question with there own agenda involved because when you don’t like the answer you just say oh well- i see it this way. you don’t conform to it because it is our yetzer hora to rebel spiritual authority.
but that is not the way. Its not your way that matters, the Derech is Hashems way.You don’t understand the Torah at the capacity a learned man or Rabbi does. and as such you are not fit to judge your own life, you are not a fit judge for anyother man why do you think you are a fit judge for yourself? let G-d judge you let G-d show you the way, his way is his Torah. how often does it say that directly?
and remember what happened to Korah and Miriam and everyone else that came against Moshe Rabbianu? He was the G-d given authority and leadership of that day, just as now the Rabbiam are the leadership of Judaism and you cannot go against what they say. Because G-d will always back his leaders up even if they might not be right. He deals with them later but never undermines them because G-d obviusly cares about authority. take Moshe and the rock– G-d said to speak to the rock to get water, and Moshe got angery and smote the rock disobeying G-d and doing wrong but G-d still backed him up He still let water come out of the rock didn’t he? of course. because G-d has made this world with order, with leaders and followers, sheep and shepherd. We must listen to our shepherds our Rabbaim.
bottom line yes it is easier to live in rebellion– that is what punk music & lifestyle is all about– what you are all about, because you fill your life with that rebellious spirit that punk provides. but what is easy isn’t what is right. the 2 words – punk and Torah- can never be.
because punk and what it stands for is-
No rules-
rebellion and doing things ur own way-
counter the culture-
go against the grain-
buck everything that is norm-
that is punk man, from the ramones to the sex pistols, that is what that music is all about- screw everything i am going to do what I want. NO Rules. To hell with the system, the rules, the law.
The Torah is the System, the Rules, the Law. so to that name punk Torah, its oxymoronic to say the least, they are opposites, they are yetzerhora- yetzertov.
maybe that is your point but we are not Taoists here. we do not embrace the the Yin and the Yong. we Are Yiddish we are to kill our yetzerhora, not lift it up.
Going off the way that you ancestors died to protect is to me a slap in the face.
we are slaves to G-d we are slaves to Torah, he set us free from the goy to enslave us to Him. so you can think this about G-d or you can think that about G-d, but G-d is who He Is- not who you think Him to be. You exist because of Him not the other way around.
Punk is a goyisher ideology and philosophy and what it stand for is antiethical to G-d. G-d wants us to submit to Torah. the Yoke of Torah. as it says -Rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft…
Long story short stop being a punk!
first make sure you had 2 witnesses who had seen the explicit act before you stone anyone Patrick
also after the second temple was destroyed we no longer have the authority to carry religious executions like we once had. this is because the Divine presence had left the jewish people long ago. Without this Divine presence to guide our prophets and the Men of Great Assembly, we can no longer be sure of carrying out such executions.
Therefore, we have learned to respect the authority of those who have a mastery in Torah and Talmudic scholarship, because nowadays we can only determine the ways of G-d through the Torah. Just as you would listen to your doctor’s advice over your own when you are sick, a Jew must be reliant on his rabbi over his own thinking. The goal isn’t just to do the right thing cuz the what is considered moral changes from generation to generation. 30 yrs ago homosexuality was considered a mental illness. Nowadays there are countries where they can get married.
A Jew should rely on his rabbi because he believes that the Torah’s decrees are the path to true moral greatness. These morals- our mitzvot – express eternal values and aren’t subject to change over time. Perhaps the way we implement them do according to rabbinic interpretation but not the reasons behind them.
FrumGer- “i don’t know what college you went to but all ask any frum yid that goes to college it fills your head with goyisher ideas, many frumkeit go OTD, partying sleeping around, etc. it happens all the time.”
That is the most presumptuous load of B.S. Are you assuming that all goyim and non-orthodox Jews are adulterous creatures that can’t contain themselves? How do you feel about people that have gone to college and now work? Are they too those animals that you describe? How do you feel about your accountant or doctor? You’re making a blanket statement that is ridiculous. I’m in my third year of college and I’m still frum and so are my friends (Any of them that went OTD went during their year in Israel..interesting, no?). Sorry to burst your bubble, but the Student Union doesn’t house nightly orgies.
first of all Patrick, make sure you have 2 witnesses to the deed before you start stoning anyone, k?
second, we cant just rely on ourselves in moral issues because we need the guidance of the Torah to show us the correct moral code created by G-d. what is determined to be right or wrong is what G-d says, even though we may not understand it. who would better know then those who have amassed scholarship in His work?
let’s be honest. if you were sick and your doctor tells you one thing and your friend says another, who are you going to listen to in the end? there is nothing wrong with going to an expert. the question is who is the most qualified and who is the right one for you.
Prili, obviously i don’t mean everyone that goes to college goes otd, i went to college and got more frum around that time. but that is a place that teaches goyisher ideas– some good some bad, not everyone that goes to college is a sex laden crimminal, but many observant yids do go otd.
in israel too- anywhere, but israel today is a really goyisher place too, one of the highest homosexual rates in the world. kids party at ben yehudah st in jerusalem 24 -6 (except shabbos) they get crunk down there and its really goyisher.
forget about prili you are making blanket statements of what i say, i have tons of extremely moral goyim friends that i love dearly.
as too todays pop culture and my problems with it that was just me ranting, it does though keep me up at night, the society that is being raised is so stupid and have so little values still taught in the average home jew or non, everyone is worried about who this is on the hills or what jon and kate plus 8 are going through, or whatever.
it bugs me oh well, i am not coming against one person. i am not judging people by what they wear i have friends that are as arty fartsy as can be and actually i am pretty bohemian myself though i choose a more conservitive look.
i love pretty much every individual because i can separate individuals from collectives, i have huge problems with collectives, an collective ideas- not individuals.
bottom line i feel fine with what i have said about pop culture and about punk torah the blog, i should not have called patrick- patty or a douche. that was petty and I apologize for both.. i think its fine to say things against his blog, and his ideas as they are farcockt but i should love him as a fellow yid.
flipped out fish- for backing me up there i couldnt have said it better- zi gezundt.
srry my bad. i thought the first time i wrote my response wasnt printed
SB – I wish! But I’m currently out of state so maybe next time….
Prili-
Obviously i am not talking about all students at college i went to college and got more frum there. but many do go otd, and college in general is goyisher, it is full of ideas and a way of life that is not jewish at all. you say i am presumptious? well i say you are. you are projecting your expirience with college on to the majority. not the case. yes there are a great many people in college that are moral as can be, sure, and hillel is at a lot of campuses. what i am saying is that just like saturday football games and friday night parties, coed dorms, it is a goyisher place. its not jewish, but i will probably send my kids to college. because that is the world we live in. also you had friends that went otd in israel? not suprising. israel today is really goyisher itself. one of the highest homosexual rates in the world and the kids party on ben yehudah 24-6 (except shabbes) . the get crazy there till like 5-6 every morning. bottom line you are making blanket statements about what iam saying of course there is good things in college and there are good college students- but it is also the home of the majority of all research sought out to disprove G-d and the Torah. That is the parts i am talking about.
Prili you mistake me i am not talking against all parts of college i got more religious during college, but the center of all research for disproving G-d and Torah is in college campuses today. and over all college like america is very goyisher, that is just how it is, doesn’t mean there arnt great people in them, i know there are. also im not suprised at ur friends who went otd in israel, secular israel is very goyisher, partying 24-6 (except shabbes) on ben yehudah, and israel has one of the highest homosexuality rates in the world. tel aviv might as well be amsterdam.
test
is heshy blocking responses based on length?
i did respond to you prili but it isn’t going through…
You can ask Hesh for my email, my names Perel….
You guys are all awesome.
Flipped out fish, well said…. glad to see im not alone here.. thanks for the backup
Perel- just understand that what i am talking about is one facet of college i obviously know there are great things about college….
I’m raising my glass to you, Michael. Thanks.
Haha well I meant the stoning thing as a joke. Forgot, Judaism isn’t supposed to be funny. It’s supposed to be a form of slavery. I guess that sorta destroys the concept of FrumSatire, though.
I guess I’m just not terrified of the Atheist Agenda That Is Out To Destroy G_d. Because frankly, I think G_d is bigger than all of us and our petty crap.
I agree that it helps to have mentors in life and to seek the advice of people who are smarter than you. I do it all the time.
But here’s the problem: we all have biases and prejudices. We all view the world a certain way. To think its as simple as think Jewish, or think disgusting pig goyim is kinda childish. It reduces the world to a bitter struggle between two forces. Frankly, I think the world is like a sea of gray areas. Heck, if you read Code of Jewish Law, you find that many times, rabbis couldn’t draw the same conclusions and many issues were left unresolved.
I think I’m fit to judge my life because G_d gave me the sense to do it
The greatest thing that happened to humanity is that Adam ate the damn fruit. We became human, frail, messed up creatures. We have the ability to do good, and do evil, to do good for the wrong reason, and to do wrong for the right reason. I think that’s part of what makes humanity so special, so unique.
And frankly, I think spiritual rebellion is a part of our tradition. Look at the number of times that G_d wanted to destroy us, and Moses stepped in and argued with G_d. We have the right to challenge G_d.
I would argue that it’s hard to live in rebellion. I was in Monsey the other day surrounded by Lubavitcher Jews and I kept getting stared at because I wore a red tee shirt. It would be easy as pie to wear all black, get married at 20, have a wife that pops out 6 kids before I’m 30 and settle into a life that’s laid out for me. It’s a lot harder to say, “Thank you Hashem for giving me this path into the unknown. I know it will be hard, but I look forward to the challenge”.
Yes, punk is counter cultural. And so is Judaism. And they parallel each other really well:
Our culture teaches that women should be whores, subservient to male sexuality. Judaism and punk rock believe that men and women are equal.
Animal Rights: our culture says that there is no reason to care for animals, just eat them and throw them away. Judaism taught us to respect animals and to treat them humanely. Punk rock and animal rights are tied together.
Materialism: our culture teaches that you need to own as much as you can, be as bling as possible, and rule the world. Judaism says that what matters is how you give to others. Punk rock ethos is that greed, especially corporate greed, is the enemy.
I’d list more examples, but Shabbat is in an hour…
“Punk is a goyisher ideology and philosophy and what it stand for is antiethical to G-d.”
Jewish punks in history: seymore stein of sire records, chris stein of blondie, moschiach oi (orthodox jewish punk), frumpunk.net, yidcore, punktorah.com, handsome dick manitoba, half of the Ramones, Richard Hell, Patti Smith, Jewdriver, the Sons of Abraham, White Shabbos, Golem, the guitarist from Gogol Bordello, Useless ID, Johnathan Richman, YLove (who is now a hiphop artist but started off in punk) and this is only a small part of names from the book “The Heebie Jeebies at CBGBs” by Steven Lee Beeber, which discusses the Jewish roots of Punk Rock.
Patrick,
i worry about atheistic agenda not for G-d, but for my fellow man. Man needs G-d not the other way around. i worry about my fellow yid and goy alike that loose faith and ultimatley their neshamah for unbelief.
absolutely- we are Hashems slaves, He is our master, if you read any text at all you would know that, that is pretty basic universal teaching in the Torah Gemorah, hasidic literature, and just basically as common an understanding in judaism as anything else.. that statement suprised me patrick, are you yidden? i am just asking because that really shocked me. i have probably heard the term the yoke of Torah like a million times.
Fun is great, humour is wonderful i love to laugh, but no matter how you slice it what this generation needs is tzadikkim not jokers. period.
punk rock is jewish because a few jews are involved?– thats like saying the porn industry is jewish because there are some jews involved in that as well. you can list things any movement may have in common with another. Amish christianity has some similar traits with frum judaism, like the women wearing dresses and being modest, men wearing black and having beards, having large close knit families with strong moral values, use of definitive gender roles, a men does this work women do that work. … very insular society as well. but that doesn’t mean they are jewish at all. i could find similarities with any group if i tried. being goyisher has nothing to do with whether or not you are a goy or a jew, many jews are straight up goyisher. punk rock is not jewish. oh well because punk rockers wear black and frumniks wear black Nu Nu then its jewish, such parallels indeed. and bro spare me with the “its hard to live in rebellion” crap, its hard to wear my red tee and all that. you dress the same as the circles you run in. period. just because you visited monsey doesn’t mean that is your environment. your environment is with other punkies that like to wear similar clothes. go to bcbg and wear a bekishe and fedora and try to set up a mehitzah in there, then you will be standing out and kicked out.
but you like attention which is why you blog and have a band and want to make fun of the lubavs reaction to you walking down in monsey. which btw they probably really didn’t care what shirt you were wearing, and the faces they made were them wondering why this goy is so busy gawking at them-little did they know this yid was trying to see if they where going to make faces at him… and mission acomplished. quantum physics my friend if you are look for something hard enough you will find it.
but none of that has anything to do with rebellion. And Torah has nothing to do with rebellion in your sense. Torah has to do with submition to G-d’s plan, and to rebel against goyisher koph thinking. Rebel from idolitry, yetzer hora.. but you my friend are not reading the same Torah Gemorah or Shulchan Aruch.
The torah is black fire and white fire, the torah is black and white- kosher and trief period. there is no grey. that is not Judasm that is Bahai faith.
your about as fit to judge yourself as OJ Simpson would have been fit to judge himself in his own murder case..please.
your reading some kind of jews for jesus version because everyway you seem to approach Torah sounds just like Xian philosophy to me.
bottom line this is my last post to you my friend, because we must agree to disagree. i will never see things the way you do- what you are is not judaism to me or to the Jews that brought you here from Sinai, and that died so the Torah and the Derech be alive for you. you spit on them now by creating a new judaism?
your too late, there was another group that did that already. they were the rebelious punks of that day. perhaps you heard of them they started 2000 years ago… go read what good they have done for the yiddishkeit- thanks alot nu?
we will never see eye to eye, i think what you do is wrong and can never be right.you might love Torah who knows, but all i heard from your parshah commentary- is how boring it is and how its like that guy you want to tell shut the f up.. right. sounds like you have great chavanah for studying let me tell you..
anyone that thinks the Torah is boring reads the Torah like a goy.
but ultimatly it is not really your fault- and in a way i feel bad. some how i feel a little guilty that we all don’t do more to spread the truth of the Torah to all Jews right here in our country, because they are having kids and their kids are missing out, and wind up being socially jewish because its cool to be jewish now, but don’t want the responsibility of going on the derech.
its your parents fault and your rabbis fault for not giving you a good education. So you read the Torah any way you want, no one told you when you were impressionable still that this is how you read the Torah, gemorah, etc. no one did so you read it how ever you want to and that shows, you do what you want to. you keep kosher, Shabbes if you do because you want to not because Torah instructed you to. but in that you miss the bigger point. Torah is not about doing what you want to- about eating the etrog on gan eden like adom because well all mighty patrick feels like eating it. its about following it when its hard to, when you don’t want to.
Torah is about restraint, discipline, all things that are against everything punk is and beleive me in know i have a couple very close friends that are ex punks from the 80’s- guys that would never shower lived on the streets basically- would pick there nose and eat it just to shock somebody, destroy anything, walk around in studded leather and w/ huge mo hawk. i know the philosophy behind real down and dirty punk and it has nothing to do with Torah at all.
just because there are guys our there that play three cords really fast and sound like crappy green day cover band with Jewish lyrics doesn’t mean they are punk, or Jewish- it just means they cant play their instraments and sing any better.
But I hope you find the way, i wish no yidden a hard time, but alienating yourself from traditional judasim and from your ancestory and from Hashem is not going to get you there.