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Yeshiva World News uses Toevah instead of Gay

toevahA guest post, and new contest idea by XGH – posted on Dov Bear

Readers of Yeshivah World News will have noticed that rather than (chas vesholom) use the word “gay’ (or LGBT) they insist on saying ‘The To’evah Community’.

Well, two can play at that game. Considering the amount of scandals coming out of the Chareidi world recently maybe we should start calling them ‘The Chillul Hashem Community’? (Yes, I know, Chareidim do lots of good works. But then, so do Toevah people, no? )

So let’s have a little competition – can you think of a good way to describe the Chareidi Community?

{ 53 comments… add one }
  • Sruly August 12, 2009, 4:04 PM

    The External Judaism Community.

  • Ari August 12, 2009, 4:04 PM

    Looks like the guest poster here is part of the Lashon Horah Community.

    And I don’t recall reading any “they started it first” excuse in Sefer Chofetz Chaim.

  • Sruly August 12, 2009, 4:07 PM


    Ari raises a good point.

  • FrumGer August 12, 2009, 4:23 PM

    the last time I checked the gay yids are still our brothers and sisters and I have a name that can include everyone… From the Average Charedi dumpster arsonists to Izaac Mizrahi-

    HaTeshuvah Community

    because all of our boo smells pretty bad

  • Phil August 12, 2009, 4:35 PM


  • srs August 12, 2009, 4:35 PM

    lol, Ari. I was just going to say that (but in a much less clever/ cute way)

  • Dr. Schwartzie August 12, 2009, 4:39 PM

    I’d just call them “The Gay Community”. For example, Rav So-and-so is the author of “Bias Hamoshiach”, and is the Mora D’asra of the Gay Community.

  • Telzer August 12, 2009, 5:40 PM

    The Quakers

  • apple August 12, 2009, 6:12 PM

    Over one hundred cooments and some hystterical ideas were posted @dovbear

  • Curious August 12, 2009, 8:25 PM

    What is it that people have against YWN that so many posts are dedicated to speaking negatively about the site? Is it personal or do people hate what the site seems to stand for?

  • judefolly August 12, 2009, 8:29 PM

    at the risk of illustrating my ignorance, might anyone explain the connotation of ‘toevah’

  • Dr. Schwartzie August 12, 2009, 8:38 PM


  • Anonymous August 12, 2009, 8:46 PM

    Curious – you may notice that Hesh writes more negative stuff about Vos Iz Nieas than YWN – because as he and I both realize YWN is mostly a dead site.

  • Curious August 12, 2009, 8:50 PM

    I was making an observation of a few sites, not just this one in particular. And why do you think that YWN is a dead site?

  • smarterthanyou August 12, 2009, 9:29 PM

    I’m confused at the comparison, the gay community prides itself in being gay. Something the torah calls a toeiva. The Charedi community does not pride itself (at least not publicly) in stealing or any other scandal. What is the connection to the gay community?

  • flipped out fish August 12, 2009, 10:18 PM

    Why should we stoop to their level and contribute to the sinaas chinam factor? Did we not just commemorate the terrible tragedies of the 9th of Av, during which the burning of the Batei Mikdash resulted from our divisiveness and lack of unity?
    There is this quote attributed to Rav Mordechai Gifter zt”l: “I am not an Orthodox Jew. Im a Torah Jew.”
    May we all aspire ourselves to be just that.

  • Eti August 12, 2009, 10:35 PM

    How about calling it the Holier than Thou community?

  • Believe It Or Not August 13, 2009, 4:09 AM


  • Orthowatch August 13, 2009, 12:19 PM

    Curious, the problem with YWN is that Eckstein makes it sound as though he has Rabbonim backing him up, and everything on his site is done with the guidance of Rabbonim.
    The opposite is true. Rabbonim have tried to shut down his site. he’s gotten letters from the Moetzes telling him that his site is full of lashon hara, and needs to be shut down. He ignores them. His site is as hypocritical as you can get.

  • Curious August 13, 2009, 1:04 PM

    Orthowatch – do you know that for a fact? I happen to think that he does have rabbonim backing him up, but they may not be the kind of rabbonim that people care for. Not letting him write about abuse for example…

    And if that’s the case, why the personal attacks against him? Are any of those comments about him as a person that I’ve read here and other places true? And if so, how the heck does he have any readership at all?!!?!

  • Orthowatch August 13, 2009, 1:21 PM

    Yes, I know it for a fact. My Rebbe (a respected Rosh Yeshiva) told me that many big name Rabbonim have been trying to shut him down for a long time. Someone connected to the Moztzes told me about the letter. I asked for a copy, and he told me he needed permission before he could give it to me. If I get it, I’ll post it on my blog.
    As for his readership: people are tricking themselves into thinking his site is “kosher”. His claiming to follow daas Torah doesn’t help.
    If you notice, he never says the name of the Rabbis who he follows. That’s because he doesn’t really have any.
    For the personal attacks against him, it’s because he lies, insults people, and uses the popularity of his site to intimidate certain people. He really isn’t a nice guy. I was told that he was kicked out of Hatzloah. I’ve gotten some pretty nasty emails from him, insulting Rabbis (some pretty big, well known ones) who didn’t conform to his ideas.

  • Curious August 13, 2009, 1:35 PM

    Still, don’t you think attacks against his personal life are going a little too far? All the adulterous accusations? As my name says, I’m just curious wtf he does to piss the people off to make them say these things…

  • Orthowatch August 13, 2009, 1:40 PM

    I’ve never seen any adulterous accusations. Can you post some links? I’ve only seen people complaining about the stuff he allows on his site.
    BTW, even on his so-called “kosher” site, he actually printed the address to a Jewish porn site.

  • Orthowatch August 13, 2009, 1:47 PM

    I’ve never seen any adulterous accusations. Can you post some links?

  • Heshy Fried August 13, 2009, 2:07 PM

    Orthowatch – Vos Iz Neias is way worse than YWN – they love to stir shit up – while YWN just puts up pictures of hatzolah and gadolim

  • Sergeant J August 13, 2009, 2:07 PM

    The “Too frum for Ahavat Yisra’el” community?

  • Orthowatch August 13, 2009, 2:12 PM

    Heshy, I know the differences. However, I don’t think I’ve seen VIN say their site is run according to Daas Torah. At least they don’t lie to try and fool people into thinking their site is “kosher”

  • Heshy Fried August 13, 2009, 2:15 PM

    Ah I understand – I can assure you that the Rabbis do not approve of this site even though many of them have told me they read it just to see how offensive I can get.

  • Orthowatch August 13, 2009, 2:18 PM

    Yeah, well, I don’t care much about that. I’m not Ultra Orthodox.

  • Baal Habos August 13, 2009, 2:57 PM

    > I can assure you that the Rabbis do not approve of this site …

    Maybe not, but the Baale Batim do!

  • Curious August 13, 2009, 3:55 PM

    I’ve seen comments on Dov Bear – just saw one this week –

    “No wait…it’s like the insecure closeted gay Haredi who is cruising and posting pictures of his own penis on craigslist and manhunter and bringing home HIV to his wife and children calling the confident, successful and well-liked kettle gay.

    No, no. Its like the YWN editor having one affair after another with a series of married women, and then having the nerve to act like Mr. Dass Torah Morality on his blog.
    YWN Hater | 08.11.09 – 1:06 pm | # ”

    If I recall I once saw a similar comment on this site too…

  • Anonymous August 13, 2009, 3:57 PM

    VIN may be more interesting, but I don’t think that it is necessary to write everything…

    And they actually are trying to fool ppl into thinking their site is more kosher as they recently posted a long essay about the laws of lashon hara

  • Sergeant J August 13, 2009, 4:02 PM

    Curious, don’t you get it, if a married man has sex with a married woman, nowadays only the WOMAN is the sinner!!! 21st century Daas Torah from the folks who brought you all the rules about how it’s ok to ignore laws of a country now for convenience, and not only when they are directed directly against Judaism.

  • Orthowatch August 13, 2009, 4:14 PM

    Curious: So you’re taking one comment from someone who calls himself YWN Hater and actually looking at it as a serious accusation?

    Curious, your name on your first few posts linked to Yeshiva World. Are you Eckstein by any chance?

  • Curious August 13, 2009, 5:53 PM

    I wonder why someone would fabricate something like that.. unless there is some truth to it.

    And do you honestly think Eckstein himself would bring attention to such a a matter?

  • Anonymous August 13, 2009, 5:56 PM

    Sergeant J – I don’t even know if you realize how true that is. I heard that directly from a “Rabbi”. Thank God my faith is deep rooted enough that that did not throw me off totally.. I just hope that those Rabbis don’t really represent the Torah, or we’re all screwed (no pun intended)

  • Orthowatch August 13, 2009, 7:28 PM

    From what I’ve heard about Eckstein, yes, he probably would. It would bother him so much that he’d want to find out whether people believed it, and who was behind it.

  • BCC August 13, 2009, 8:07 PM

    small detail to whoever posted that yeshivaworld is a dead website they are ranked 35,374th most popular site while frumsatire is ranked 180,955

  • Anonymous August 14, 2009, 10:47 AM

    The Narishkeit Community?

    The Irrationalists Community?

    The Anti-Jewish Community?

    Should we even be capitalizing these names? It’s almost like a Chillul Hashem!

  • Heshy Fried August 14, 2009, 11:04 AM

    BCC – I wish Alexa was accurate because if it was I have more traffic then Jewlicious which has 10,000 people a day – but unfortunately Alexa means absolutely nothing – google it – you will see.


    That sites Alexa ranking is 8,000 so we can trust them right.

    Yeshiva World News is not a dead site – it is a site which provides no real conversation and is losing in its fight with Vos Iz Neias.

  • Heshy Fried August 14, 2009, 11:06 AM

    Oh and for the record, I like the editor of Yeshiva World News and just because I don’t like his site doesn’t mean I don’t like him – I just think he lost out to Vos Iz Neias for reasons like trying to censor the news so that it was less of a chillul hashem (a good thing) and forcing people to log in to comment – never a good thing.

  • Phil August 14, 2009, 11:11 AM

    Alexa sucks, maybe she should have attended some more of those reform bar mitzvas 😉

  • Anonymous August 14, 2009, 12:22 PM

    Heshy, if you like the editor, you probably should not allow the nasty comments about him (on this post and elsewhere)

  • Anonymous September 7, 2009, 4:52 PM

    i happen to by frum and GAY,and i take offense on being called a TOEVAH,especially since ive never even acted on my feelings,being gay makes me an abomination??? then why did god make me??

  • anonymous September 7, 2009, 8:11 PM

    when chareidim call people gay they don’t mean guys that are attracted to guys, rather they’re referring to guys that do guys about which the Torah says it’s a toevah

  • Sergeant J September 8, 2009, 1:10 AM

    Chareidim mean the guy that is not a Chareidi doing men in secret, since that guy is not “gay” either… It’s just the people who admit, or “get caught” that are “really gay”….

  • Anonymous September 11, 2009, 2:54 PM

    Call them ” the stixxx” . Dig that !

  • isaak September 16, 2009, 11:56 PM

    maybe instead of holy rollers (ie fundy christians) the rolly holies (ie shuckling) or the shuckling ducklings

  • Avrumy September 24, 2009, 1:44 PM

    Sticks and stones, my friend.
    I am a “proud” gay orthodox Jew who avoids the specific act believed to be the “to’evah” of the Torah. The Charedi community can figuratively kiss my a$$. But if they look on Craigslist they can find other married frum guys who will. Feh.

    • moshe kaufman October 1, 2009, 2:41 PM

      i am

      • moshe kaufman October 1, 2009, 2:47 PM

        i am with avrumy! I am a proud bisexual breslover chassid!the rebbe saqys over and over agin in his seforim that ANYONE can serve Hashem.just because people like a vrumy and i are queer does not mean we can’t daven,learn torah,give tzedakah,do chessed,observe shaboss,etc Hashem loves all his creations!

        • Phil October 2, 2009, 8:42 AM

          How can anyone be “proud” of something that is explicitly forbidden and call themselves a “chassid”??? Obvious oxymoron.

          Do you even know what a chassid is? I’ll give you a hint, it has nothing to do with the type of hat your wear, the length of your peyos or the color of your socks!

  • Yerachmiel Lopin October 28, 2009, 11:50 PM

    1. The halachic tradition is clear that the prohibition called toevah is male-male anal intercourse. Hetero anal intercourse is OK- it is not called toevah, just “shelo k’darko” “not the usual way” So they should lobby in favor of same sex marriage with a clause banning Anal intercourse. Maybe they could call it the same sex minus toevah bill .

    2. I deeply respect the gay commenters who say they are committed enough to the religous life that they uphold it, restricting themselves in some ways, in spite of the fact that their world does not embrace them.

    3. The “ShidduchJews ” is my nomination. The parents of molested children were kept in line by the threat of reducing their standing in the marriage market. It rules, even above halachah. So I say the ShidduchJews.

    4. I know it is tooting my own horn, but I am very proud of stuff I have written for my blog frumFollies about the failed response to molesting. I have a satirical version of an Agudah Moetzes speech molesting.

    I am even prouder of a fable about a hassidic Rebbe, Menachem Besdin, who upsets the ususal compliant order with a provocative speech. In Part II of “Rabbi Besdin” the community is in total turmoil with some taking radical action while of course others defend the wisdom of their rabbis, and the importance of not imperilling shidduchim.

    Yerachmiel Lopin

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