I am not shocked at all by the recent cases of business and money related fraud, its too bad I kind of expect this type of thing from the frum community, I am totally used to fraud, hearing about it and personally witnessing it, from the very frum to the not so frum money dealings are an all around shady thing in the frum community, and it doesn’t seem so bad until a bunch of people get caught at once and everyone goes up in arms about it.
I can count on one hand, all of the jobs I have ever done that I got paid on the books for, fact is in my circles if you get tax taken out of your paycheck you are probably working for someone who isn’t frum, or isn’t Jewish. When I mentioned that I was getting tax taken out of my paycheck when I worked in Monsey friends of mine expressed shock, and I expressed dismay because who the hell wants to pay tax?
How many businesses are exclusively cash, if I want to save on tax I pay cash. This is how it works when you get your car fixed, pay a locksmith or need a handyman. One of the beauties of kosher pizza stores is that unless they are official, none of them are, they rarely charge tax.
I of course have worked in several situations where I got to see fraud first hand. I worked for 3 summers in a row as a NY state summer camp inspector in which I audited summer camps that received government funding for their summer food programs. The Ctaskills has the largest concentration of programs period and while many other groups cheat the program, the Jews can do it on a large scale, surprisingly it was the more Litvishe groups that cheated and the Chassidim were more honest – probably because they are poorer and actually need the money.
While I did this job I can remember multiple times when people found out what I did, since I paid for food with a NY State credit card, they would regale to me their stories of cheating the government. It was always about how they never served lunch in our camp but when the inspectors came, everyone was told to sit down and shut up. We would have to count the children and they would get the kids top change clothing so they could be counted twice. Some of you are cringing, but in truth, these stories were hilarious.
I worked for a company once and they were paying me cash, my boss told me that if I wanted he could put me on the books for 26 weeks, fire me, I could collect unemployment and he would put me back on cash – I didn’t want to commit to 26 weeks.
I also worked in a position that was a volunteer position as mandated by New York State law, but we were paid on the books as janitors, lots of high paid janitors, and when the inspectors showed up we had to keep it cool and this was for a very “frum” organization.
On my first shabbos in Monsey I davened at a chassidish shul in the concord area that in the words of my hosts was so fancy because one of its prominent members had built it with insurance fraud money – he went to jail for it, but at least they got a really fancy marble filled shul out of it – the family seemed quite proud and I was actually a bit shocked.
Anyone who grew up frum, is involved in the frum community or has worked for frum people knows that the stereotypes are true. To me part of the problem lies in the fact that it doesn’t seem like such an un-frum thing to do, cheating the government is kosher, because we don’t use half of the programs and money dealings are behind closed doors, while issues like TV, internet or going to strip clubs which aren’t half as bad are out in the open.
I was taught countless times that the first thing they ask you when you get up to judgment prior to them showing the movie of all your life and the semen you wasted chasing you into gehenom, they ask you if you were honest in conducting your business dealings. Which is so funny because as I recall a bulk of the hashkafa and mussar given over by my Rebbeim was dedicated to honoring your parents, and the evils of the opposite sex – never was their talk of conducting your business dealings honestly.
My father drilled it into me and told me that damaging other peoples property, stealing and a slew of other things never taught in yeshiva were a disgrace and should be harsh punishments, like I remember my father being very supportive of Singapore when they flogged that kid for spray painting or something. I stole money from my dad when I was a kid to buy baseball cards and he gave me beating and told me if he ever caught me stealing from anyone – I wouldn’t forget the beating that definitely sunk in.
Just look at the reaction to the FBI sting in New Jersey, many frum people will say this: at least the money was going to tzedaka, or I know those people and they were so pious or ehrliche or frum and they couldn’t possibly do something like this – it must be anti-Semitic. If were supposed to look up to the Rabbis maybe kids think they should strive to be a bucky in fraud just like their rebbe.
When scamming the system is part of your daily life, its not so easy to change. Does anyone even want to change? Imagine if all of those people in Monsey and beyond who have shuls in their basement to save on property taxes stopped having those shuls? People would have to walk and they may lose weight, but that means they would be into their vanity and that can’t be good.
I wonder if all of the arrests of recent note will change anything, its been a pretty bad year for orthodox Jews and fraud. 3 high profile cases, Madoff, Kidney guys and Rubashkin combined with that couple in Monsey involved in welfare fraud, those two heimishe guys in Monsey caught stealing from mailboxes and a slew of other cases that seem to be on Vos Iz Neias every day.
Someone said I should offer solutions to the problems I pose and my solution to this would be to start preaching honesty in the yeshiva system, but the yeshivas themselves have shady dealings so its kind of goes against the grain. I am sure if they would drill into us this concept of honesty in business being the first question asked when you get up to the big kiddush in the sky.
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{ 56 comments… read them below or add one }
Great post.
It is a real problem when the “leadership” doesn’t practice what they preach and when they use “wag the dog” issues and mussar to take the heat off the real problems.
Back in the “old country”, where the laws were written to tax jews more, it made sense.. now, it’s just making Jews look like thieves.. mostly, because the scammers that do these things are thieves…. In the end, it is the rest of us, that pay taxes, and work on the books who suffer, because whenever someone gets caught like this, our fellow tax paying, on the books workers always look at us as if we are the ones on the news, and wonder what we are doing to cheat the system… thanks, assholes, hope you have a rubbish time in jail……
Not a rubbish time in jail, I hope they meet Bubba and that Bubba makes them his wife.
I hope the Aryans bust out their front teeth.
seems like the problem is worst in the NYC area, and occasionally ex-NYCers (a la Shereshevsky). one of several reasons I’d never raise kids there
great post however it is unfortunately true
Well put Sergeant J.I salute you for that post!
The scariest part is who knows how much other fraud is going on? Is there any reason to assume even *one* yeshiva doesn’t lie, cheat and steal?
Thank you for this glimpse into the shady underworld of frum businesses.
If an establishment ever tells me “cash only”, I walk out.
And so should everyone else. It is time we stood up for honesty.
shua – that’s bec NY has all the Jews and all the money. My yeshiva wasn’t in NY and it was super shady.
Sargent J you are correct – but that’s not a good excuse.
It’s endemic, I mean, from the “the more you pay, the less you have to follow the school rules”, to the “this kid has not actually been here for half a decade, but keep him on the rolls, he’s more money from the government”… of course, public schools have been called out on the later one as well, so..
It’s not a NY thing. Frummies just don’t give a crap about the rules. Except maybe BTs.
watch these vids. Looks like you and the Agudah are on the same page…
never thought you’d hear that sentence in your life, did you?
http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/37660/VIDEOS:+Ben+Brafman+Speaking+At+‘Legal+Symposium’.html
Heshy, there is no excuse, in that you and I agree. For the slander, and for those who actually, individually, deserve slander for breaking all the laws they feel they can get away with in order to keep things quiet, and the free cash flowing..
There was also the problem in Los Angeles about 2 years ago. One of the Shuls (built illegally and was told repeatedly to shut down by the City) had a tax fraud scheme going. It was really quite ingenious… and of course they got caught. An individual would write a check for $100K to the tzedakah and the tzedakah would give him $90K in cash back. The tzedakah gets $10K and the guy gets a $100K write-off. This money was then sent out to other organizations. I know the Spinka Rebbe was implicated as well as a number of prominent business men, some of whom turned states evidence to catch others.
Its true, if high schools gave half the time to the halachos of honesty that they gave to tznius and railing against talking to girls, attitudes towards fraud might change. Unfortunately the yeshivish world is built on a sense of entitlement – “we are keeping the world going with our learning, the least everyone else can do is support our large families.”
Living on programs instead of working is a way of life, and cheating the government isn’t really cheating, because, you know, its not like there are other people involved, and besides those people are goyim and anti-semites anyway.
I don’t get it.These yeshivas should raise money with a Kollel Wives Carwash there is absolutly unnessassary to resort to government fraud.Or we can do the old “Pie in the face contest”where disgruntled talmidim get to take thier revenge on thier favorite rabbi they love to hate(to the highest bidder ,of course)
>Unfortunately the yeshivish world is built on a sense of entitlement – “we are keeping the world going with our learning, the least everyone else can do is support our large families.”
Bingo.
>Or we can do the old “Pie in the face contest”where disgruntled talmidim get to take thier revenge on thier favorite rabbi they love to hate
I’m sure the rebbeim would love that!
/snark/
Funny that the legal symposium was for only men – the women should be learning these laws as well and if they are on a higher spiritual plane maybe they would get their husbands to stop scamming.
Besides having a basement shul is a pain in the butt and I am sure many of them would like to rid of it.
A damning indictment of the “frum” community.
Hesh,
if you hae a chance watch the brafman vids. it will not only make you feel a little better, but will provide more post worthiness…
when i used to work at a kosher chinese store in monsey the dude would pay me a certain number of hours “on the books” with taxes- like maybe 10/20 hours a week- and then pay me the rest off the books. That way it looked like he was paying taxes, but only had to pay around half as much.
Also, my dad used to pay my school tuition through a ‘charitable gift fund” he set up to pay his own kids tuition…not sure how he got away with that. This tax fraud stuff never sat well with me…maybe i was too moral to stay frum.
Parsonage has really gotten out of control in the Jewish community. There is no end to people who use it fraudulently.
I hate that people cheat taxes but still sign up for every governement program that they qualify for. Where in the world do they think these programs get funding??
40% of my paycheck is taken away before I even seen it. It’s part of life.
Don’t forget about all the frum families who are on welfare, food stamps, and free health insurance because they “don’t make enough” to afford health insurance etc. If everyone worked on the books it would be a different story.
It makes the rest of us who work on the books and work for Jewish organizations (Federation etc) that don’t do these shady things seem horrible.
Last weekend i crossed the border back into the US from Canada and the border police asked me the usual questions where u coming from etc… and than he jeered at me….. you’re not carrying no kidneys right? Very hurtful that we’re all looked down upon now as fraudsters and cheaters!!! I still feel there are allot more honest people than the writer makes it out to be!
It still surprises me to see the fraud going on.
It’s basic knowledge that dishonest earnings taint even your honest earnings. Why get involved in fraud?
Is an extra 100 bucks really worth time in Gehinnom?
You should have told him that you are carrying 2 kidneys, and he’ll need to operate if he wants to find them.
Its bad fro yiddishkeit in general, look at all the books of literature writtin about the jews and usery or the jews cheating, lieing, coniving – he “jewed” me out of my money. it just makes the rednecks and black supremists froth at the mouth with i told you so… but lets not forget, non jewish corperations are just as bad off. Big business is just as shady. they might take tax out ur check but they cheat anywhere they can. small building contractors pay illegals aliens who ship most of the money back to there south of the border origins, not putting it back into our economy. many contractors these are bible thumpin christian good ol boys. I would venture to say that maybe 10 percent of all business is actually done legit if that. plent of non jewish factories, food proccessors do things shady as hell, they just do it differently. really the whole capitalistic set up we have is fercockt. its based on greed and lust for money, what shmoo would not “capitalize” on that? And I don’t feel bad for the gov. at all, because politics is the biggest crooked street out there. Lobbyist, kick backs, corruption is at every level, evey dept. in both parties. But i am just upset because it was Jews that get caught and it just leads back to that same antisemetic ideal. Jews and there money. the Torah says on how to deal honestly with your neighbor. But that stuff get swept under the rug when, there are women running around with there hair uncovered. we should be tikkun olam. Free trade has its temptations, and what is a bigger temptation then money? But Hesh come on this is a little disengenous b/c this is not a Jewish problem, this is a Human problem. it affects every country, race, religion. period. one thing i will say with great relief,….
at least they were Sephardic.
that was a Ashkanaz joke to all my sephard bros.
I really don’t understand why all these Yeshivas have to rip of the goverment by cheating and lying.They could all make big bucks with a “Kollel Wives Gone Wild” video or maybe a wet t-shirt contest.
But all joking aside I think schools should have at least 2 dinners a year.People are more pron to pay $500 a plate for dinner as opposed to just anouther fundraising letter bitching and complianing how the school don’t got no money.(wich they trash anyway.)
FrumGer said:
“the Torah says on how to deal honestly with your neighbor. ”
And you know what? “Neighbor” most, if not all, the time means “Fellow Jew”. When it comes to how you treat Goyim (used in the neutral sense), that’s another story.
I am upset that so much anger in the frum community is directed at the moser, Mr. Dwek, while those who did the crime are dismissed casually. I’ve heard, “oh, they were entrapped by Dwek,” and “They trusted Dwek.”
So being a snitch is worse than being a robber? Last time I looked at the Two Tablets, I read about stealing, not snitching.
On an unrelated note, the last name of the snitch rhymes with a Yiddish slur is an unbelievable irony.
I think the big problem is that Frum Jews have been conditioned to believe that Non Jews (goyim) are pawns for our benefit and there are no repercussions for stealing from them or any dishonesty for that matter.
I think it’s a bigger problem in the NY/NJ area because there are so many government programs available to give aid–for school buses, after school care, lunches, textbooks etc (and that’s just for schools. I understand in Lakewood there is some sort of special program for health insurance that pregnant women/kids can get for free). I live in another state where it was a really big deal when the frum schools were once given money to buy one set of textbooks. There really aren’t any other sort of programs available other than maybe very universal ones like Wic or food stamps. Also, a lot of people in my community tend to have government jobs; very few have businesses. I think (and I’m not a naive person) that the majority of people here are honest. Even in the frum stores here, there’s no such thing as paying cash to save money on sales tax. Never came across that till I went shopping in Boro Park. As a teen I worked in the local BY summer camp and everything was very official, I don’t think I made enough money to have to pay taxes but it was still reported.
So I think it depends on your community. It sounds like there has been a huge wake up call for the NY/NJ people and hopefully enough people will either get too nervous to do dishonest scamming or will come to the realization that it is wrong. Like the Spinke rebbe said, “we have learned this the hard way”.
Cheating the govt / tax evasion is 100% assur. Trust me, I looked high and low for a heter, no real rabbi will give one. Only exception to the rule is if a govt puts a “Jew tax” in place, where Jews are expected to pay extra, then it’s permissible.
Important to point out that their is nothing wrong with taking advantage of legal loopholes and extra govt funding. Religious Jews are experts at this, I often share tips on how to get more money from various levels of governement with my buddies. Canada and especially Quebec are notorious for giving away “free money”, you just have to know how to qualify for the benefits.
Phil, I didn’t mean in my post that getting stuff through available funding was dishonest. As long as people truly qualify, that’s okay. I’m referring more to stuff like the couple from Monsey that was arrested because of fraud in regard to government programs (didn’t report all their assets, etc.)
Anon,
I wasn’t responding to your post specifically, just pointing out that there are differences.
When some of my non religious aquantances or extended family hear of all the govt money we get in addition to the taxation loopholes I use, they jump to conclusions that religious Jews are scammers, and that we are somehow ripping off honest taxpayers money. This is far from true.
Yes, some Jews are fraudulent scammers, but in cases where it’s legal, why not take advantage. If I don’t, someone else will.
In fact, it is our duty as citizens of a tax paying society to make use of every possible loophole and grant available out there. That’s why they were put in place to begin with.
When you get too much surplus at the top, you start hearing of those politicians related expense account horror stories.
Offended / Unoffended,
I’ve got really stupid remarks from the border guards as well, one guy even once called me a f*cking idiot (I crossed the border by mistake).
Problem is if you try any smart ass answer, they can really make you miserable, so you just have to shut up and grin.
I wouldn’t mind bumping into some of these egomaniacs in a dark alley once they’re off duty.
anon – not much of a jump to assume you’re from baltimore, as I am. i believe you’re right that Jewish baltimore is a pretty honest town. probably not coincidentally, it’s also probably the poorest Jewish community in the country. perhaps if there was more temptation here we’d also have the problems some of our brothers up I-95 seem to have.
whatever the reasons are, the NY/NJ Jewish area seems to have a culture of corruption
@Serge, Dwek is quite a common surname in the SY community; I myself used to wonder if they knew it rhymes with Drek, but they don’t speak Yiddish (proudly). What I really wonder about is people with the surname Shreck (yes, they are out there). Bangitout.com once had one on Jewish last names that suck, and for Shreck, they suggested that anyone with that name pull out a Yiddish dictionary and look the word up. So I asked my mother, and she told me it means “fright”, which is kewl if you’re a scary green cinematic ogre, but why in the hell any human would want that as a surname is beyond me.
The first cavil have have is the outrage against Mr. Dweck and the defendants. It’s to my understanding that Judaism, unlike nearly any other religion, specifically believes in the fallibility of the human. There is no god/human in our belief system. We say ” believe not in yourself until your time of death” as a truism not a prayer. So why are we shocked ?? I think there are other blatant transgressions in our community being disregarded to no collective outrage?
The answer people like telling themselves is “Chillul Hashem”. This is sort of like a royal flush that supersedes all and gives you the moral right to tsk tsk no matter your personal faults. I heard in recent days oi I was so embarrassed to wear my kippah or I was afraid someone will comment to me in the street. I contend that this is a reflection of their true feelings; it’s not Gods Chillul there upset about but their own. Their insecurity finally has a basis and let’s say Oi a Chillul Hashem. While I do agree of course that it may very well be a Chillul and even if a Schizophrenic claims 2+2=4 if remains true nonetheless it’s quite irksome seeing this sanctimoniousness en mass in crucifying in the name of God. We’re all susceptible, it’s a matter of price and oppurtunity or circumstance and innate urge. It’s the unfortunate truth , may we never be tempted.
The sad truth is a most people don’t even know what a Chillul truly means. Rav Hutner explains : the word chillul means vacuum, he elaborates that any not physical desirous sin is a chillul since it utilizes the intellect which is supposed to be used for the recognition of God. Any thing causing a vacuum in within the medium optimally used for for recognizance of God is a Chillul Hashem. I suppose most of us are guilty ((as sin
), especially in the sense that I believe most us are intellectual zombies , just going with the fetid flow. Few are using the faculties at all , forget for recognizance of God , this is arguably a casebook Chillul.
Another thing if interest I would like to point at is the prevalence of painting anything under the easy canvas of Chillul. When I was young and we went on trips, be it camp yeshivah etc. any wrongdoing was berated as a Chillul Hashem, Don’t throw stuff out the window it’s a Chillul Hashem. Dont scream it’s a Chillul Hashem. Dont push it’s a Chillul Hashem. The list can go on forever. While tis did have it’s effect of turning us into obedient little robots resenting the whole
Chillul Hashem idea, it also caused the educators to neglect teaching important ideas as they could do it the lazy way and just label it Chillul Hashem. We never grasped many basic ideas and we also were inundated with a sense that all thats important is the external in case of Chillul Hashem. rarely were we taught not to do basic things such as water balloon because it’s wrong it was usually a Chillul Hashem.
A stupid idea would be for those embarrassed to be Jews currently, to simply take of their external trappings of Judaism around goyim as it may become to habitual, though it may also have the positive effect of making you do things, such as not cutting in line at the exit ramp, because it’s simply wrong and not because your wearing a kippah.
I work as a CPA in NYC doing corporate taxes and I can’t tell you how often frum people call me wanting to know whether I do “shticklach.”
At first I had no idea what they were talking about, and than I figured out that they were asking me if I would be an accomplice to fraud.
It shocks me how people who present themselves as such sticklers to the letter of the law, could be so shamelessly criminal and dismissive of the one of the ten commandments.
Really Offended,
When you’re in the hands of Customs you aren’t in the United States, so your legal protections don’t apply. They have an absolute right to take an unguided tour of all sorts of parts and not even leave any parts untouched. They can toss you into “detention” without actually arresting you. They can disassemble your car and leave you standing by the side of the road with the pieces.
And they have their sense of humour surgically removed at FLETC.
If something really egregious happens remember the Three Rs – Relax, Record and Refer. Don’t get angry. Don’t get agitated. Take it slow. But if you can make a tape or video recording of the proceedings it’s very useful even if it might be ruled inadmissible in Court. Get the Officer’s badge number, name and ID card if you can. Once you are officially in the United States get in touch with his or her supervisor and a lawyer.
The big concern is being a “malshin”, one who snitches on Jews to goyyim. According to Chazzal, a malshin completely forgoes his Olam Haba. This, amongst other things, is how the community has kept their dirty laundry under wraps. Indeed, I read in the news, Solomon Dwek’s father sat shiva for him; his acting as a malshin has made him dead to the SY community, possibly the frum community at large. As for the anti-Semitism charge, let’s not forget that the Rabbis were NOT the only target here: the list of non-Jewish politicians who were busted is much larger and more comprehensive than the list of Rabbis. Let’s talk about the Mayor of Hoboken, who promised Dwek that even if he were busted he could be reelected (they’re now asking him to step down). No, most people were focusing on New Jersey in general, not just the Jews of Deal.
Maybe someone should popularize those “stop snitchin’” shirts among the frum community.
http://www.thegoodzonline.com/store/images/teeC1_LRG.jpg
Ghottistyx,
And how does what CHazal was talking about apply to today? It’s not like there are Roman (or any other kind) soldiers walking around and flaying people for teaching Tora!
@Yochanan, forgive me for playing devil’s advocate. As a non-observant Jew, I think it’s all a crock of shit, and if I were Rabbi Dwek, I’d be proud of my son for blowing the lid on all those people.
I think it’s an age old subject that hasn’t evolved much in the ortho world since the time of the Romans, when a malshin would get Jews flayed, burned, thrown to the li0ns, crucified, et al. To this day,there still is a bracha “VeLaMalshinim” in the Amida, which according to the Gemara, was stressed to the point that if a person got one word wrong when saying the bracha, they were assumed to be a malshin and never allowed to lead prayer again. Yes, to this day many ortho Jews still assume this old world mentallity and still castigate a malshin as such. To this day, many Jews REFUSE to take up matters against another Jew in a secular court.
And how should it apply today? This is another example of a relic of the dark ages that the ortho world won’t let go of….
@Yochanan, forgive me for playing devil’s advocate. As a non-observant Jew, I think it’s all a crock of shit, and if I were Rabbi Dwek, I’d be proud of my son for blowing the lid on all those people.
Exactly what I have been thinking -
Hesh
I don’t believe the “kindney sale on ebay “story.Ebay won’t let you sell anything illeagal.And the enforce the policy quit well.Where didyou here it from?
I was noticing that no one in the 45 posts I read once asked Heshy why he didnt blow the whistle or if he even thought of it. I’d heard of the malshin idea, but it was ghottistyx’s explanation which put it in context.
Something to ponder
It mentions that a talmid chacham is distinguishable (or required to be) in several areas… one of which is business dealings (ie with money).
I forgot which and my books are in boxes for the move
O fogot to say this was a Ramabam
First of all i wonder if this post goes into the same category as dwek, it is know that the NYPD community affairs and FBI watch the Jewish sites. Now you are feeding them all this and who knows what you will have on your hands…
Second, the reason most frummies try getting paid off the books is because with the small meager ammounts they are making they make too much to get benifits but practicly they cannot live on that money, tax money is going to pay for public schools but the regular frum jew has to dole out heavy cash to pay for school.
if they were to offer benifits to lower-middle class – you would see way more proper filings and no cheating.
When you cheat, it’s a reason, when someone else cheats, it’s an excuse.
Mshe MS
Your argument is fair enough.But,argument never justified a heter for being oyver Dinah Dmalchusah Dinah.I gonna go out on a limb and say that these tax cheaters save the government more money buy not sending their kids to public school than the taxes they SHOULD have paid.SO WHAT!!!It was thier CHOICE not to send thier kids to public school,hence they still owe the taxes!!!
if shits like hirsh says things like that-he is the one who dissicrating our Torah in all its wonders and glory———————————-simply what Dwek did is to try to clean some of the filth and dirt and expose those people pretending to be religious and using the Torah as their their cover and cloak as good guys when they are notnothing short of evil worms ,who brings the holy nation down,purely for their own selfish gratification–in short they are abhorant and causing so much harm to amm israel ……………………………..