I found this post on Material Maidels blog about two guys she and her friend went to a club with that removed their yarmulkes when they walked into the bar. I am one of the only people I know that wears my yarmulke everywhere , mostly because I am proud to be Jewish and feel more likely to represent my Jewishness if I have it on.
Maidels post explains that these boys felt the opposite, that these boys felt that going into a club was a chillul Hashem and not having a yarmulke on their head would allow them to act like bafoons. I understand the logic, but the only time I ever remove my yarmulke is to buy porn, pick up pennies from the ground or decide to pull off the “suggested donation feature” at a museum.
Do you think people should remove their yarmulkes to go into a bar? It kind of irks me, but that’s just me the proud Jew.
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{ 59 comments… read them below or add one }
hmmmm i say as long as theyre drinking kosher drinks, keep it on.
Why do you need to buy porn.At this point you must have groupies galore!!!
Agreed w/Jelen. You shouldn’t be drinking to the point of being drunk anyways. If you’re goin in for a couple of drinks and can handle your liquor, then why take it off?
Of course, if the person is planning on being a total idiot and excuse himself by saying he was drunk, then, yeah, take it off.
If they’re in a place where they feel they need to take off their yarmulke, maybe they shouldn’t be there to begin with!
There’s a difference between a bar and a club. In a club, I at least see the chilul hashem to be much greater – so while I agree w/hanna that if one feels the need to take it off (then the Yarmulke is doing its job of reminding you that there’s a G-d above) and you probably should get out of there. Then again, I go to Pubs all the time for a few drinks with my hat and jacket so . . .
I am going to have to agree with Hannah. If you are going to be embarrassed about your behavior while wearing the yarmulke you probably should not be doing.
I can see taking off a yarmulke or wearing a baseball cap into a comedy club just so you don’t get harassed by every comedian who gets on stage. A yarmulke is like a big target printed on your head. Not good for people who are there on a date. Baseball cap is much more low key. Unless of course the comedian does not like your chosen baseball team.
Yeah, clubs are a different story.
I keep my yamy and tzitzis on wherever – I would think a club would be a kiddush hashem because all those there will see that orthodox Jews can be normal as well.
Note to all Frumme Yidden: Only Orthodox Jews walk around at night or indoors with Yankees caps – the world still knows you’re Jewish . . . esp. if you have a beard, payos or a set of lakewood style sideburns cut to the shiur of payos (I hope y’all know what I mean)
Not if you’re grindin it up with a sweet honey on the dancefloor
I sport mine everywhere even when I DJ in clubs. Not an OJ, but I represent.
I wonder what those female reform rabbis do…
‘but the only time I ever remove my yarmulke is to buy porn…’ .. s.p.e.e.c.h.l.e.s.s!
oki… so is this the halachic way to ‘handle porn’?
I dont take my yarmulka off when i go to bars etc. I was even recently ar a bar wearing my yarmulka, and as I walked through the door, the bouncer told me it was nice to see another jew who is proud to be jewish!
I keep my yarmulke on…. unless it’s a topless bar.. then i go topless!
I wear a do rag everywhere outside of work/shul. But, it would be a maaris ayin to go to a club where people were doing bump and grind baby makin dancing while in a yammy.
About grinding with a yarmulke – I would argue that this is not a chillul hashem because its a completely normal thing to do in a club and therefore people may even look at Jews better – its not viewed as irreligious – strip clubs are viewed as irrelgious and hence a religious Jew attending wouldnt be too great
Of course it is Chillul Hashem. According to Hallacha you are not alloud to touch a women of the opposite sex. So if you are wearing a Kippa and people see you, they will know you are a jew, assume you are representing the “religious” “orhodox” community, since you are wearing a kippa, and think the proper ediquette of an orthodox jew is to grind with women. That does not seem right
I see both sides of the arguement.
Most Rabbis will tell you do not go into a burger king to use the bathroom. How is going in to a bar that sells bacon cheese burgers any different?
If you are just getting a kosher beer, then you aren’t doing anything wrong to leave it on.
Its a tough call, and I think up to the individual person
I should note that I haven’t bought porn in years, when I got engaged my father threw out my entire collection (he was renovating and couldn’t see the use in taking up so much room) and since then I have been relatively porn-free.
You should obviously not be in a bar or club to begin with. However, if you were end up in one of these places then you should certainly remove your yarmulka, especially if you plan on drinking or acting stupid and embarrasing the Jewish culture. On the contrary, the whold point of a yarmulka is to remind you f Gods presence and to instil fear in you of committing an aveira being that God is watching you. Therefore, there may be an argument to wear the yarmulka as well.
frum satire,
You’re engaged?
yes yeshiva dude I’m engaged haven’t you heard?
“When I was engaged” – once upon a time
Right WHEN HE WAS ENGAGED
Clearly that means he is now married
haha
Forgot to mention: I had a guest spot on a local radio show recently and the DJ booth is open glass to the building walkway. One of the guys who was on my Beit Din walked by outside, points to his head, gives me a thumbs up. Felt good!
Anybody ever hear of wearing a cap or hat? Just as efficient, much less stupid questions to answer, especially when you’re out in some remote area where people never saw frum Jews before.
Many of us would hang out in a neighborhood bar back in my school days, place was basically filled with religious Jews every night, so kippahs were the norm.
When we headed out to other areas, it was always caps or winter hats.
Phil I noticed that weekday shuls have a contingency of old men who wear baseball hats including my dad who only wears a yarmulke on shabbos.
Should I leave my tzitzis out when I take off the yamalka to go into a sports bar (not a place like scores)
Heshy: Can you suggest a discrete place where a beginer can by porno?
I’ll use the bathrooms at a Burger King or McDonald’s no problem, but I do remove my kippa before going in.
Hesh – Looking normal or not in the eyes of non-jews is not the (main) standard of Chilul-Hashem. When we go against our own values – doing a bump and grind among them – that too is a chilul hashem.
A few years ago, I was driving through deepest Kentucky with my wife. We were on the interstate, but still, the rest stop looked sort of seedy and had guys who looked like they might not be that favorably disposed towards Jews.
So when we stopped there, I decided to put my kippa in my pocket. My wife concurred.
As I was waiting for her to come out of the restroom, a minivan with a frummie family, tzitzis, shaitel, etc, stopped. The kids ran into the rest stop with the mother calling after them “Shaindy! Yanky! Chani! Don’t forget to use the bathroom!”
I decided Hashem was telling me it was OK to wear my small kippa sruga.
i like the pictoral reference to the dry drunk
With the Internet, why are you buying porn?
When I am away in a community where I am possibly the only Jew, or where it might be risky to appear to be too Jewish, I will wear a baseball cap. That said, it is one I get from the Chabad Telethon with a multi-coloured dancing rabbi on the front & Chabad Telethon 2005 on the back.
If Tevye could wear a kippa in a bar, so can I.
You guys must have missed it. Due to the prevalence of inappropriate behavior in this age, the Rabbis have decreed that you can only commit an aveira with your yarmulka ON. Taking off your yarmulka exempts you from all sin. So before meeting that married woman and killing her husband, don’t forget to save your soul by REMOVING your yarmulka. This works for less severe infractions as well. Want to watch porn? Just remove your yarmulka! Want to go watch a ballgame (horrific bittul torah)? Just remove your yarmulka! It is the be-all and end-all of heterim. Use it well.
Sincerely,
A Jew concerned about your souls
fs, why should jews worry about looking “normal” to the world, according to its standards? why can we be normal according to our own standards? you said you’re proud of being jewish, but then you say you want to seem “normal” to the rest of the world.
anyway, i wonder how much of what we try to hide has to do with showing a good image to the world, and how much has to do with not wanting to be judged by frummies we might bump into…
So your pop threw out all your playgirls?
I have been BT for just under two years now, and though I have become progressively more Shomer Mitzvot, I continue to eat at restaurants which serve treif, though I do not order it, obviously. During such occasions, I do remove my yamulkah, or wear a hat, so that I don’t offend anyone, or give the impression that the restaurant is Kosher. As for the bar scene, my head will remain covered.
mookie – I agree completely.
Whats wrong with a bar that you would even think of taking off your kippa?
Club on the other hand… iffy…
How about when you’re arrested for trafficking in human organs? Should you take it off before your perp walk?
About grinding with a yarmulke – I would argue that this is not a chillul hashem because its a completely normal thing to do in a club and therefore people may even look at Jews better – its not viewed as irreligious – strip clubs are viewed as irrelgious and hence a religious Jew attending wouldnt be too great
This doesn’t make much sense. So it’s better to just ogle at someone dancing half naked then dance along side someone who’s half naked?
I have to disagree with Heshy on grinding – even by your logic it doesn’t quite work. A person can be standing there grinding with a naked girl, and if he sees you grinding with a girl in a long skirt, and you’re wearing a kippa, he’s judging you, saying negative things about religious people. Maybe it doesn’t make sense, but there it is.
Eye – Did David take off his kippa?
I take mine off for driving.
I forgot to discuss wearing a yarmulka while grinding. I think it’s a wonderful thing to do. If you leave your yarmulka on, you sweat more while you grind, and that makes the matzah more hiddur. I know you might get some of that white stuff on your yarmulka, especially if you bend down while grinding and your yarmulka falls off, but it’s worth it for the extra schar. So the next time you are grinding, leave your yarmulka on and try not to bend over.
My Rav holds that one is required to remove his yamulka and tzitzis for a perp walk. He has even given heterim to shave the beard off during sfira for the perp walk. From what I understand this is a minority opinion.
The baseball cap stands out in places where people think hats are “disrespectful” indoors.
What kind of bar or pub finds caps disrespectful?
If you are gonna go to a club and actually dance with the opposite sex you should remove your yamulka because you are doing something that is obviously assur and you might make other jews think a) that its allowed or b) that religious jews are hypocrites.
But really whats wrong with a bar… the atmosphere might not be as jewish as a beis midrash, but as long as u keep kosher and dont do anything embarrassing, i dont see why its come be seen as so bad. So when i go, i leave it on.
The only time i take off my kippah is when i would go into an arab-owned hookah bar (which i used to do cuz it was the only place u cud find it). In that case wearing a yamulka would be like committing suicide, which of course is assur.
Why should anyone ever care whether a person wears a hat indoors or not? Suffice it to say that there in many parts of the US, people still find hats indoors offensive, but when asked seem to have no real idea as to why they do. I have been asked “reminded”, and told not to wear a hat indoors at several times and places.. I seldom respond in the positive to it.
I agree with sergeant J at least from a military standpoint…my dad was in the marines for 10 years and still finds it offensive if one of my brothers walks in with his hat on – it’s just regulations, basically, grilled into his head. As for the younger generation, though? Eh.
I agree with Hannah though, if you feel like you need to take off your yarmulke you shouldn’t be going in there anyway.
I’d hate to break the news… but most of you still look like religious Jews, even if you remove your kippa.
Tell you what. If I bust anyone in my Wing with a BDU cap indoors(unless under armes or ceremonial detail)I’ll make it my personal buisiness to rip them a new one, that includes you Serg. Do I make make myself clear?
I once heard that Rav Moshe Feinstein was asked a number of years ago by some YU students if they should take off their yarmulkas before going into a porno theater in Times Square and he said they should leave them on because otherwise they make it seem that it is alright for a frum person to do this as long as he takes his yarmulka off first.
If I catch you IN a uniform anywhere, wanna-be web fake-boy, I will have you arrested for impersonating an officer. Military police don’t take kindly to it, no matter your age.
And learn to spell “arms”, and “sarge” as well, they are not difficult words, kiddo.
Royal Mount,
You should by your own hookah and smoke it only with Jews and friendly Gentiles. If you live in New York, you can probably get sheesha at a local bodega.
The correct response is “Yes Sir!!”or I’ll have you scrapin pubes off shitters in Levenworth.They don’t call me General Shingles for nothin!!
Just kiddin Sergeant J.Just givin ya hell as usual.You know wouldn’t give you hell if I didn’t like you.I tell you somthin I can go on and on for hours about my Air Force experiance.
dovid – you got it a little mixed up, the question that was asked to Rav Moshe was, should a jew take his kippah off if he goes to a dance with mixed danicing? – this was a while ago so maybe now thats defined as bar/club? bottom line is just cause you are doing one thing wrong does not mean you should do 2 things wrong. although in some cases like that theater its better to take it off.