Sent to me via email by girl who wishes to remain anonymous.
Horror Date – What is it with Frum guys thinking less observant girls are whores?
So this past Saturday I decide go out on a date with a guy I met on frumster in April. I am expecting a nice time with a nice modern orthodox guy. Being the non-frummy chick that I am, I’m used to dealing with reform party-boys and nervous whimps. He arrives at my hotel and we started walking around Center city Philadelphia at 6:30 and do the whole awkward walking and talking bit. His profile says that he is a 35-year-old non smoker (I’m 22, but I usually go for older guys). As soon as we start walking, “Do you mind if I smoke?” Heh…No, dickwad, not at all.
So we walk and he obnoxiously puffs away, not noticing that he’s blowing it in my direction. He’s too busy telling me how he makes lots of money helping his family run their business. He’s wearing a blue button shirt with the top three unbuttoned so he has a patch of chest hair showing, and jeans.
As we’re walking, he begins asking me about my past relationships and what I’m looking for in a guy. I’ve already decided by this point that I won’t see him again, so I thought I’d have some fun. “I want a frum guy who’ll let me pretend to be all super religious around his family and then let me watch movies on shabbat”. He chuckles lightly, pauses awkwardly and then explains how he’s very modern and was raised with traditional values but was able to find his Jewish identity from growing up in New York.
He then asks me if I’m a virgin. What the f—?! Who has the audacity to ask someone that on a damn shul date?!
I tell him that’s none of his business and he chuckles and says “Ehhhh why don’t you lighten up? I was just kidding!” and tells me to relax. I smile and nod while he talks about himself, his career, his family, his sephardic background. I tell him about my family, and each thing I talk about he turns around and relates back to himself:
“Oh, your parents are divorced? Mine SHOULD have been divorced but my grandmother wouldn’t let them. I remember the fights….”
“Oh, you have 4 brothers? I have 5! And a sister!” He already told me this – oh, and his sister married a rabbi apparently. He continues with some more of the “my horse is bigger than yours” game every time I mention something else about my family. Even my down-syndrome aunt ain’t got shit on his whacked bubbie.
We get there, listen to a lecture and I’m totally digging this whole sitting separately thing. Why? Because mr. bend at the knees-kippa falling off his head over here felt it necessary to shuffle me in the front door with his hand planted firmly on the small of my back and pushing. I very quietly asked him not to touch me:
“Whaaaat? What’s your problem? I’m just trying to help you in! Relax!” Again with the “relax” shit. I’ll relax your jaw with my foot here in a minute.
We pray some more, I listen, and it’s over. I pray for patience and to not catch an assault charge. Good times.
When I come out the side door, and go to do the Netilat yadayim La’Pat, he comes to help me. I appreciate this since my mostly reform education has kept me from doing this regularly (honestly, at all). Then he yanks my hands over top of the bowl and snaps at me to hold my right hand out first and then the left. Well no shit, sherlock, I do some reading from time to time.
Standing there with him, I was able to appreciate those who are shomer negiah, and start to consider it myself.
We sit down and I silently stuff my face, ignoring everyone at the table. We finish up and pray some more and then go to leave. I come back, shake hands with the ladies I meet and wish them a good week and we make our exit. He does that hand-on-my-back thing again, I object a second time.
“Just relaaaaaaaaaax!” He literally waves me off. This wouldn’t be so unpleasant if he didn’t have an equally nasal and raspy smoker’s voice.
We make our way to some bar down the street for a few drinks (it’s way past dark by now). He stops to ask a group of young douschebags (you know the type, overly tanned with popped collars and all wearing cargo shorts) where the “hot spots” are. We end up going to some bar with cool chairs and I start to drink just so I can tolerate his stupid ass. He’s only about as tall as me, and being in the military has given me the inclination that I can probably take him if need be. I decide that my imbibing of alcohol really isn’t a safety issue. He’s the type of guy that has to drink diet coke and then lecture me on how it’s important to watch your sugar intake. I get red wine. I drink two glasses and switch to rum and REGULAR coke. I drink 3, quickly, and we decide to walk. Mind you, I’m not tiny so I’m still sober by this point. He’s had two corona lights (All I could hear in my head was “pussy alert” when he ordered) and is stumbling slightly as we walk down market street in Philly..
I tell him that I’m tired and we walk back to my hotel, hoping that he doesn’t try to come in the lobby. He comes in. We walk to the elevator. I insist that I can make it up to my room by myself. I seriously doubt I’ll have a rape threat in the Radisson.
“So…we should do this again next time you’re in town.” Awkward pause, I stare blankly. Finally, the rum is kicking in. “You look really sexy tonight.” I’m in an ankle length skirt and the frummiest sweater I could pull out of my bag. Is this asshole serious?
Then he steps forward, puts his arms around my waist and goes in for a kiss. I turn my head at the last second so he only gets to plant one on my cheek and then I say, “Well, I’m feeling energetic so I think I’ll just take the stairs. Good night!” I slowly walk into the stairwell and he stares after me dumbfounded and then begin to sprint up two stairs at a time, for some reason thinking he would chase me.
So what’s with this belief that less observant girls are loose whores? Can somebody please explain that to me?
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{ 75 comments… read them below or add one }
I don’t think all Frum men think that non Frum women are whores, I certainly don’t, I think you just found a D-bag for yourself here, better luck next time!
Hey I’m a frum guy looking to meet
frum hot frum girls call me 3474520379
Hey, J. C., here’s your guy!
Wow wow
If I were your Frumster date I would chase you upstairs and massage your feet until you fell asleep, then tuck you in and gaze fondly over you before finally planting a kiss on your forehead and leaving, closing the door silently behind me.
Sweety, that is not a reflection of religious guys it is more of a reflection of the fact that you agreed to go out with a creep and allow the date to continue. Maybe some self reflection would be better than thinking all frum guys are 35 yr old creeps who prey on 22 yr old girls like you. Stick to your own age hon!
I would have loved the story even more if it had ended with the girl throwing that guy in front of a bus.
Taser time?
Wow 5 comments while I went out to move my car, my two cents is this.
I was definitely told by my Rabbis that untznius girls were naked and immoral – this was given over at almost every mussar shcmooze I ever attended. But then again I went to a school located in the hippest area of rochester – with loads of scantly clad girls
Thank you for reading my story, everyone. I hope you get a chortle out of it.
Alright, before anybody else gets their feathers all ruffed up, just remember this is a satire website.
Not all frum guys who are 35 are creeps, let’s not forget that Heshy is in his late 20s.
Why would I need self reflection if I’m seeking to become more religious, so I’m also looking to date a religious person?
Anyways, this was an exceptionally bad date and I couldn’t help but share it.
Here’s what brought on the final question: I’m wondering if some of the things frum guys have asked me (the sexual questions), would they have asked a frum girl this? No, probably not. Why should I be treated any differently?
See that is where you are wrong! Asking anyone those questions on a date are highly innapropriate Jewish or not. This guy obviously had limited boundaries and would of asked ANY girl these questions. Seems like a lack of dating etiquette more than a personal attack on the non religious. You think he gave you the one over because your not religious but he would of been a perfect gentleman with a frum girl, sooo wrong. Frum creeps are creeps, bottom line. Trust me these guys do not discriminate.
Waah Waah,
Unfortunately, I wouldn’t be so sure that that’s the case. There are from guys who think that non-frum girls are all sluts and hope to “get” some on a date. Usually these guys aren’t 35, but still, he sounds like he fits the profile.
Author, the answer to your question is that this is the view transmitted to frum yeshiva boys by their rabbis – that the outside world is this immoral place with everyone having casual sex all the time. And the kids believe it. And some get older and think it means an opportunity to get laid.
Waah Waah,
Unfortunately, I wouldn’t be so sure that that’s the case. There are from guys who think that non-frum girls are all sluts and hope to “get” some on a date. Usually these guys aren’t 35, but still, he sounds like he fits the profile.
Author,
The answer to your question is that this is the view transmitted to frum yeshiva boys by their rabbis – that the outside world is this immoral place with everyone having casual sex all the time. And the kids believe it. And some get older and think it means an opportunity to get laid.
This story just somehow doesnt seem real to me but going on the assumption that it is,
1. Hes 35 and your 22 honestly you set yourself up for this.
2. I think your thinking too much into the fact that your less observant. I have dealt with stuff like this and Im pretty religious. Its just the guy being a D bag
I do feel that this could be seen as a generalization of all guys, AND there are definitely factors that attributed to this (older man, younger girl, this particular guy being sketchy, etc) BUT I have found that some guys hear that a girl isnt a frummy, or G-d forbid, wears pants! and they think that they can talk abt inappropriate things (are you a virgin?) and touch the girl (small of the back) where they probably wouldnt dream of doing the same thing with a frum, BY type. This is just from my own personal experience…
Within my experiences, I would have to say that the author is correct in her assumptions. That is to say, the guy would never have asked “are you a virgin?” to a frummer girl, and he certainly wouldn’t have touched her.
Its pretty simple, I think: Its a matter of transference.
Frum guys have an inherent sexual frustration that is based on their religious beliefs. Many of them believe that if it weren’t for the strict religious rules, there would be a lot more “action” going on.
Therefore, it is assumed that anyone who isn’t as religious would be CLEARLY living the life they dream and fantasize about.
Its sick, but understandable.
> Frum guys have an inherent sexual frustration that is based on their
> religious beliefs
One more proof for my contention that Orthodox Judaism today has more in common with Catholicism than anything in the Tanakh. Rabbi Dr. Eliezer Berkovits, in Crisis and Faith, says that Freud’s sexual theories could only have arisen from the midst of a society possessing (or once having possessed) Christian sexual ethics. But I suspect that someday soon (if not already), the Freudian sexual neuroses will be popping up in the Orthodox Jews as well.
We’re supposed to sanctity the mundane, as Rav Kook teaches, so that’s just what we did with papal infallibility as well. Yay!
(For the record, my hashqafaand practice is a combination of German Neo-Orthodox and Turkish Sephardi, with some Rav Kook and Religious Zionism thrown in for good measure. So no one had better call me a non-Orthodox Jew criticizing the Orthodox from the outside.)
One more proof for my contention that Orthodox Judaism today has more in common with Catholicism than anything in the Tanakh. Rabbi Dr. Eliezer Berkovits, in
Crisis and Faith, says that Freud’s sexual theories could only have arisen from the midst of a society possessing (or once having possessed) Christian sexual
ethics. But I suspect that someday soon (if not already), the Freudian sexual neuroses will be popping up in the Orthodox Jews as well.
We’re supposed to sanctity the mundane, as Rav Kook teaches, so that’s just what we did with papal infallibility as well. Yay!
(For the record, my hashqafaand practice is a combination of German Neo-Orthodox and Turkish Sephardi, with some Rav Kook and Religious Zionism
thrown in for good measure. So no one had better call me a non-Orthodox Jew criticizing the Orthodox from the outside.)
> Frum guys have an inherent sexual frustration that is based on their
> religious beliefs
One more proof for my contention that Orthodox Judaism today has more in common with Catholicism than anything in the Tanakh. Rabbi Dr. Eliezer Berkovits, in Crisis and Faith, says that Freud’s sexual theories could only have arisen from the midst of a society possessing (or once having possessed) Christian sexual ethics. But I suspect that someday soon (if not already), the Freudian sexual neuroses will be popping up in the Orthodox Jews as well.
We’re supposed to sanctity the mundane, as Rav Kook teaches, so that’s just what we did with papal infallibility as well. Yay!
(For the record, my hashqafa and practice is a combination of German Neo-Orthodox and Turkish Sephardi, with some Rav Kook and Religious Zionism thrown in for good measure. So no one had better call me a non-Orthodox Jew criticizing the Orthodox from the outside.)
Why cannot I post replies anymore? Is this broken?
Okay, so why can’t I post my real reply? Grrr… Let’s try breaking it into pieces…
One more proof
Okay, this is crazy. I can type in random little phrases, but every time I type in my real reply, I get a 403: Page Forbidden error. What the heck?
This guy is totally the arse stereotype: Sephardic, chest hair sticking out, family business, talking about money, hypersexual, goes for 13 years younger women. It’s not surprising.
Also, speaking as someone who’s a few years younger than the men you’re dating: please date men closer to your own age. I can’t date men in their 20s anymore, but you can.
jennthejewess -
Thank you for your observation. I can see where you’re coming from but sadly, this was a case of “He looked great online and seemed nice over the phone” and then we met in person and I get this insanity.
This definitely happened, but I have also gone on dates with frum guys who were absolute gentleman, and very nice and everything you would expect them to be. There are good ones out there! They just don’t live where I live!
This is just one, REALLY AWFUL date, and I like to think that I’m a nice person, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt and hope he’d chill out a bit.
dys -
Heshy also relayed the same message above, and I can def see this just from having frum friends and getting their opinions on this whole fiasco.
I have a friend (Met on frumster, went on a few dates to no fruition, but he’s a genuinely nice boy) who says to me this morning: “Well, duh, frum chicks don’t put out, so he was probably hoping that you would.” I truly lol’d on that one.
BTW, all, the booze didn’t effect me until I was safe and in my room, I have a high alcohol tolerance!
“Coulda woulda shoulda” left, etc, I know, my mom said the same thing. I didn’t feel out of control or unsafe, and I was getting free drinks , he was just a moron. I thought he’d stop, he didn’t, and now you all have something to laugh about today.
non frum author- was this guy an english teacher by any chance? cause I know a dude in philly whose probably around 35 who sounds exactly like this dude…
Both are guilty of pretentious douchebaggery and the points are too many to waste my time on.
Damn Shiksa, what the hell did Author say that is so offensive? I can’t see anything wrong she said.
Haha, no eden, he’s not. I’d rather not say just to protect his privacy.
And shiksa, I AM a pretentious douschebag, haven’t you realized that yet?
Douchebag is just such a good term either way – lets have a douchebag party
Wow, I’m sorry your date went so bad. You’ll find someone better worth your time.
I’m 25 and single, and I’ve never gone out on a date “looking to get some”, but it may just be me. lol
If being a pretentious douchebag is a goal, then good for you.
It’s bogus to judge him for relating points you make back to himself as if he’s not allowed to.
On top of that, you decided you didn’t want to see him, thought of him as a “stupid ass” but continued to waste his time by still hanging out (read: showing interest in his mind), going for drinks and OH WHAT FEIGNED SHOCK that he should attempt to kiss you!
If this was truly as bad a date as you say, you have to blame your attitude for 50% of it. Shit. Even though I’m a chick, I feel like I just went on a date with you and I’m ready to take a scalding shower, down some fermented Kedem, cut my shmuck off and call it a day.
This guy doesnt seem frum at all, he’s not shomer, he asks inappropriate questions an is just a jerk, what makes you consider him “frum”
Once you knew you weren’t into him, you should have called it a night.
If he was getting you free drinks and you kept downing them, don’t you think you might have led him on or given him the wrong impression?
Besides, why would you want to put yourself at risk with someone you felt was a sicko? Is it really worth a couple shots of rum and some wine?
Getting free drinks from a guy you are into is pretty low.
I think this guy was showing signs of being a complete moron early on (smoking when he said he was a non-smoker, the competitive talking, bragging about his money). Your best move would have been to check out as soon as possible from the date. Staying around was interpreted by him as signals that you were buying his whole “relax” shtick. You knew you were sober but he probably thought he you were hammered and easy pickings.
This guy also does not seem all that frum to me. He lied about being a non-smoker he’s probably lying about religious as well.
What I really want to know was what happened after he started to chase you? I would have loved to call security on a guy like that and have him escorted out of the building.
I love this post
Like I said before, “Coulda woulda shoulda”, I learned from this and not to believe someone’s frumster page, or what they tell me on the phone but just to learn from what I’m observing.
I’m def not to blame for his rude behavior.
And shiksa, don’t take time out of your busy schedule to talk shit to me, then.
AT LEAST I enjoyed the shul!
Bottom line: he was an asshole, I’m still laughing about it. ‘Nuff said.
Kosherbride:
THANK YOU. Ha ha. Yeah he described himself on the phone as being “raised orthodox and still religious”, obv not.
He never chased me, though, I just had this thought in my head, what if he did? But no, that never happened.
I feel sorry for the doormat of a man who falls for you.
As everyone else said, its funny how you kept going as long as entertainment and drinks were still being offered. Doesn’t seem like there was any guilt feeling about spending his money even though you knew you had no interest.
He is to blame for his rude behavior but you are to blame for egging him on as well as being selfish.
My question is what do you have to offer?
As for whore like activity. A whore is someone who spends time with someone or goes further with someone who pays them. Being that you had no interest in him but you continued just for the ride, entertainment, drinks (freebies), you seem unfortunately on that date to have matched the description. He didn’t get what he payed for though but he should have made it clear so he wouldn’t have been disappointing.
He deceived you by going mainly to fool around and you deceived him by not being interested but going for a free ride.
There are always 2 sides to a coin.
Why ARE you attracted to older men?
This piece would have been easier to relate to if there was some self-deprecation in your tone and I’m starting to think this was written by a guy.
Nope, Author is a gal. A gal with a fair amount of Anglo-Saxon coming out of her mouth, but a gal all the same.
And why criticize her for a lack of self-depreciation? I rather see her as a unapologetic straight-shooter with some backbone. So that backbone includes a little bit of foul language. Meh.
(I say this as a person for whom the last curse word uttered by myself was “Oh fiddlesticks”.)
i bet it was the same guy i went on a date with about 5 yrs ago who stole the beautiful napkin ring from the restaurant
and who told me i had sexual residence – what is sexual residence?
he was scary!
he also canceled my entree order thinking i would forget after filling me up with appetizers.
i bet it was the same guy
“So this past Saturday I decide go out on a date with a guy I met on frumster in April. I am expecting a nice time with a nice modern orthodox guy. Being the non-frummy chick that I am, I’m used to dealing with reform party-boys and nervous whimps. He arrives at my hotel and we started walking around Center city Philadelphia at 6:30 and do the whole awkward walking and talking bit. His profile says that he is a 35-year-old non smoker (I’m 22, but I usually go for older guys). As soon as we start walking, “Do you mind if I smoke?” Heh…No, dickwad, not at all.”
So, this happened on Saturday at 6:30. That’s still Shabat. And he was smoking and buying drinks. Definitely not religious. A douchebag nonetheless.
Was my comment eaten?
lets put it this way, non-frum girls are much more likely to sleep with guys they arent married to.
If your teacher is absolutely insane, or super-starck that then that would be translated into “non-frum girls are whores”, and if your stupid enough to believe it… I’m just saying, if one was stupid enough, theres ways to get than impression.
Its sorta sad that you had to meet such a creep, but you shouldn’t generalize that all frum people think …
Sadly, many of the Rabbis I’ve dealt with (but NOT all) have generalized about non frum girls (like you) in the same way that you are generalizing about frum guys. This guy was a creep, and the fact that he claims to be “frum” doesn’t change that. I would never do any of the things this guy did (touching you, asking sexual questions after 5 minutes). He probably looks for non frum girls because he wants to get some “action”. So he labels himself “frum” in order to engage in behavior which is certainly not frum, with women who are looking to date frum guys because they want to move up (in observance). That is pretty gross and abusive behavior on his part. But what do you expect from a douche like him? Lastly, if you’re 22, what do you expect when you go out with a 35 year old?
Shiksa- I like you. You’ve got spunk. You’re a spunky kid. I like your moxy. You’ve got a real way with words, for a dame. Lay off the broad, though. Her man plies her with drinks and then starts to get a little handsy thinking he’s gonna get somewhere- that guy knew what he was doing. Pour some liquor on it and go right for the prize. A real pro, this fella.
A lot of guys are like this. As a convert, I get the old, do you miss sex and then they try to talk dirty to me.
I do NOT agree, that she asked for this for being younger. Going for drinks probably didn’t help. Long before I started my conversion, I decided I would not go for drinks with a guy for the first date. If a guy liked me enough, he would have to take me on a proper date. If he didn’t like me enough to do that, he wasn’t worth my time and I told men so much. I’ve heard that relax crap, too.
Pour a drink down his pants, I like it.
Dear Non-frum author,
I’m also a girl and the same age as you and I cringed when I read your story ( I also laughed too, but mostly cringed). That’s why I won’t join a dating site. I hope you find someone nice really soon. If you’re still in school, may I suggest trying your school’s Hillel or Chabad if there is one? I’ve made so many great friends there over the years at those places (and while I did not find my Mr. Right, I did find “I thought he was Mr. Right”s at both places, respectively. Maybe you could find yours – the real Mr. Right there
Either way, I hope you stay clear of any more D-Bags. Also, I think Not a UWS-Sider makes an interesting point about girls wearing pants – just because a girl wears pants DOES NOT mean she’s not religious, it can just mean she decided to wear something more practical!
Props to FrumSatire, your blog rocks!
You found an a$$hole. And he was horny. Congratulations! There are plenty of them out there
Michal – I am so sorry you had those experiences, but I am sadly not shocked. Some schools just do not teach manners these day (or any english subjects for that matter). Curious guys don’t even know how to use the internet to get their kicks so they try to prey on converts or people they deem less religious.
I understand forbidding alcohol on a first date as it can be a bad idea and give people the wrong impression. I also think that for working/older people it often signifies a lack of interest or investment in the date. “Lets make this one a quickie at the bar. I doubt it’s going anywhere. I just promised my aunt I would go on this date”. For younger people though I can see the need to not spend too much money on a first date. I was not insulted when I was 18, in college and having sprites at some lounge for a date. However I would never have done it when I was 23 and in medical school. It just wasn’t worth the time.
Drinks in NYC cost as much as a meal… You could buy a traif steak for the price of two drinks.
But what the heck would I do with a treif steak??? At least I can drink the drinks (most of them anyway)!
You mentioned that you went out with some very gentlemanly religious guys–so it sounds like this bad experience was the exception, not the rule.
That doesn’t negate the fact that this guy is a total jerk, but why did you frame your article in such a generalized way, giving rise to the idea that all the religious guys you dated were like this?
Dd you ever think to ask why he is 35 and single? there’s usually a reason why someone that old would not be married.
There’s nothing wrong with sexual advances on a date (I do it all the time) but I don’t think there’s any reason to do that more on a less religious girl than on a frummer one. This guy just sounds like a typical sefardi sleezball. You should have know better. Stick to Askenazim next time and if you’re 22, try to date guys who are under 30.
I was at Congregation Shearith Israel, the Spanish-Portuguese shul on the Upper West Side.
I sat next to an older fellow, probably in his 60s or so, and we started chatting about all the problems in Orthodoxy nowadays. (The rabbi emeritus of that shul, Rabbi Marc Angel, is a left-wing Modern Orthodox YCT-type.)
After we talked about all the depressing things in Orthodoxy, this older fellow looks at me and says, laughing, “Ha, I don’t buy all this stuff nowadays. You see, I’m Sephardi.”
I wanted to kiss him. To say he’s Sephardi as an explanation for why he doesn’t buy all the modern insanity of Haredi Judaism, BEST REASON EVER.
So let’s not generalize about Sephardim, alright? A real Sephardi has a hidalgo bearing to himself, is a real gentleman. (“Hidalgo” is an evolution from the word “fidalgo”, which is in turn a contraction of the Spanish “fijo dalgo”, which means, “son of something” or “son of riches”. The title was originally a title of Spanish nobility, but it came to mean nobility of character and bearing in general.)
My grandfather a”h said, and my father always says “Ha, I don’t buy all this stuff nowadays. You see, I’m a Yekke.”
As I say above, I consider myself half Turkish Sephardi and half German Neo-Orthodox.
So I will now kiss your father and grandfather too.
The first thing you found out about him was that he was inconsiderate and a liar. What could you expect after that?
right… sorry….
Pimp,
As if ashkenazim are more moral. Ever read about all those yiddish speaking child molester chassidim in Borough Park?
Judging from you’re blog, you shouldn’t be one to talk about sleazballs to say the least.
As soon as I read met on Frumster I knew you had made a mistake. Stay away from that site at least.
Phil, glad you were the one to call that out.
I really can’t say anything that hasn’t been said already; unfortunately, 99% of the time, your status as a semi-otd, non-frummy Jewish girl is going to have guys assume you are a skank. Just like they would if you were a BT or a convert and the reason why has also been mentioned already. It’s because if most of these guys ever had the opportunity to go OTD for even one night, it wouldn’t be to turn the bathroom lights on over Shabbat — it would be for pussy, plain and simple. So, while this is pathetically predictable and predictably pathetic, it is the reason that frummy boys will contintue to think all non-blueballsing Touro girls are closet hookers waiting to suck their dicks.
Good luck and shabbat shalom
Shiksa – your comments make you sound like a real bitch! Nice asshole assumptions. Clearly you have never been on a date before.
Non-Frum author – You can pick any age range that you like. Yes, 35 is a little old for early 20s but who knows who Hashem created as your beshert. Certainly not Shiksa, if she even knows what the word means.
I have gone on dates and stayed longer than I should have in the hopes that the date would turn around. I think we inhernetly have hope that the douchebaggery isn’t universal. Sadly, Shiksa is part of the douchebag generation. We all have horror stories. Thanks for sharing yours. I think the Frummy guys think that can take more liberties with those of us who aren’t FFB but he sounds no worse than any non-frum guy that I have dated.
Oh and Shiksa I don’t know many women who date younger men… other than the cougars that prowl the clubs… maybe that’s who you are… a goyish cougar… But yes, in general, most women date older men and most men date younger women. Works out nicely that way.
Itl sounded like one of the many dates I’ve been on before returning to Judaism.
I am 63 and prefer younger men if they find me attractive. A man of my own age is frequently looking for financial support and/or being taken care of in his older years.
I had an online conversation with a Chabad rabbi who could give me no halachic references regarding WHY premarital sex between unmarried Jews (heterosexual ones) in a monogamous situation was forbidden.
I remember being walked home after Shabbat dinner at a Rabbi’s table by a young Israeli who asked “Are you frum?” In my innocence I thought he just wanted to learn more about me.
A knowledgeable friend told me he was determining whether I was available for sex. Fortunately I responded “growing” and he politely said good bye.
Be Well.
Miriam
Well, here’s a reference for you. The Rambam lists this as one of the 365 negative commandments in the Torah ( #355 ):
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/e/e0002.htm
That there shall be no prostitute, which is a woman who has sexual relations without a marriage contract and sanctification ceremony, as it is written “there shall be no harlot” (Deuteronomy 23,18).
It sounds much better in Hebrew.
Hey, I know this is old, but can I guest post it to my blog?
(yeah, I know, most of my readers are on here, too.)
You should publicize the guy’s name so that I can make sure my sisters never go near him.
I would just like to congratulate myself for being an actual nice guy that Ms. Non-frummy knows from Frumster.
Now, Ms. Non-Frummy, I’m trying very hard not to disclose your identity, and I’m trying very hard to avoid innocently and naively posting on your Facebook page anything relating to this present piece of yours. I may be a nice guy, but I’m also incapable of keeping secrets, as you’ve noticed before. But I’m trying!
(Now I don’t claim to be an ‘A’ student, but I’m trying to be, for maybe by being an ‘A’ student baby…
)
Really, this post of mine is entirely non-substantive and inconsequential. This is simply my equivalent of spray-painting “Michael Makovi was here”, and congratulating myself on knowing your secret identity, and discerning your authorship of this piece without your having informed me so. Go me!
Uptight Vous Vous girls don’t know how to relate to smooth Mizrachi men