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I’m going to date a shiksa

shiksaI’m Going to Date a Shiksa

By Schwartzie

If someone doesn’t hook me up quick, I’m going to date a shiksa. Twenty-six years I’ve been looking for my basheret, and not an ounce of help from anyone. No, I don’t make money- yet. No, I’m not particularly frum. I’m neither an earner nor a learner, apparently.I don’t volunteer at any gemilus chasadim type organizations. But is that all that a shadchan sees in a man? What about the fact that I can cook well, that I’m a good listener, that I’m smart and funny and lots of fun to be around?

It’s like I’m not allowed to flirt with the girls at my friend’s l’chaim and I can’t look over the mechitzah in shul, but I can’t get any girls the acceptable way because everybody’s holding out on me. In Crown Heights I’m not chasidish enough, on the Upper West side and Long Island I don’t earn enough, in Queens, it’s both.

So here’s the deal. If you guys keep helping the competition- I’m talking about the guys who already have no problem getting girls, because they’re tzadikim bnei tzadikim, or because they are fabulously well to do, then I’m taking my game elsewhere-. Not because I don’t believe in preserving the Jewish identity of myself and my children- I agree that assimilation is one of the greatest problems facing the Jewish people today. I’m gonna date a shiksa because I think that’s the only way to get through to you people. I know how you feel about intermarriage. It’s your Achilles’ heel. And when you see me with a blond girl on my arm, a shiksa- a promiscuous one- then I know you guys will be singing a different tune. Yeah, that oughtta light a fire under your asses.

{ 73 comments… add one }
  • Ari July 14, 2009, 9:27 AM


    What makes you think that dating a shiksa is going to make you happy? Trust me on this one, it will not. I know from experience. I’ve been there, done that, as they say. Now I regret it a decade and a half later.

    And what makes you think you will be much more successful with the shiksas than you are with the Jewish girls? Girls are girls. They respond similarly to guys.

    Maybe you aren’t chassidish enough or rich enough or whatever. I’ve been married for more than ten years. I have never had any real money. But I have a wonderful (and hot) wife. A JEWISH wife.

    Why? Because somewhere down the line, I figured out how to talk to women. There is a right way and a wrong way to talk to women, Jewish, shiksah or otherwise.

    Back when I had to learn, I had to figure it out on my own. Nowadays, there is Youtube, and chat sites and various books or DVDs or whatever. They’ll all teach you some basics as to how to talk to women. Trust me on this one– if you know how to make women feel attracted to you, they won’t care about those other things.

    Now, Heshy, that’s a pretty good article idea for you. Learning how to talk to women. It’s okay, halachically, to learn a martial art, yet it’s assur to karate chop a man in the larynx hoping to kill him. Why, then, would it not similarly be permitted to learn how to attract women for that one time you’ll need that skill?

    So, Schwartzie. It’s your fault– you’ve got no game. Now go learn some game.

    How’s that.

  • Chris_B July 14, 2009, 9:54 AM

    Yeah… That’ll show em who is who all right!

  • not an UWSider July 14, 2009, 9:56 AM

    These UWS stereotypes are growing tiresome. I know many girls, myself included, in the UWS that don’t care about how much you earn or what car you drive. The question is are you a good guy? That being said, yes its annoying that those in the middle- the non frummies, and the slightly more religious-than-nots get left behind by their friends in the shidduch area. But you are right, get yourself a non-jew and watch the riots ensue. I like the plan… 🙂

  • Rivka July 14, 2009, 10:01 AM

    Do you want a girl who considers herself reform-ative? OR are you modern orthodox but just not so frummy? I will try to set you up. Please send me your profile.

  • Schwartzie July 14, 2009, 10:12 AM

    Heshy told me to send out some replies, so here goes:

    Thanks, Ari. I rest my case.

    So, not an UWSider, what’s cookin? Do you come here often?

    I’ll give you game, Ari. I’ll give all you guys game till it comes out your noses.

  • Frum Satire July 14, 2009, 10:27 AM

    This so pleasantly lighthearted – I love it

  • not an UWSider July 14, 2009, 10:32 AM

    haha. Well, I come here looking for a good laugh and/or hot debate, which is usually. You didn’t answer the “good guy” question, yet. Are ya?

  • 1234567890 July 14, 2009, 10:32 AM

    Ah please… why bother with the shiksas, Bais Yaakov girls put out faster… and swallow too!!!

    • Omai June 27, 2018, 2:23 PM

      I swallow….

  • Hannah July 14, 2009, 10:35 AM

    I strongly feel that those in the shidduch world, who claim to be so into Jewish outreach, should help Jews of all different walks of religious life to meet other Jews. While we may not all observe Judaism the same way, we can be united on marrying other Jews, promoting Jewish continuity and preventing intermarriage.

    While dating non-Jews is rather extreme, the post is testimony to the sad situation with which we are faced today.

  • ShomerTHIS July 14, 2009, 10:36 AM

    You have a whacked perspective on Judaism

    Do you honestly think all the attractive Jewish girls come from NYC? Are all the future Mothers of our faith from NYC?

    No need to Google it, the answer is NO

    I see many attractive ladies outside of NYC who believe in keeping the seed of Jacob going by any means necessary (even if it means dating guys who don’t make $150,000+ a year)

    You are just like all my NYC friends, they all complain about the situation in NYC but they are too lazy/cheap/afraid/incumbent to look for their significant other elsewhere.

    Personally I think i have seen more attractive girls in Israel than in NYC. Florida also seems to provide home to some really attractive Jewish girls.

    Frum Satire, I think you should do a thread where the users rank the best places to find a JEWISH date (I think Tel Aviv would win, but thats only me)

  • Frum Satire July 14, 2009, 10:41 AM

    The best place to find a date is the playground midday – all those moms, no men.

    What about Trader Joes? The laundromat, or the library?

  • 1234567890 July 14, 2009, 10:43 AM

    You can get the best bang for your buck at the laundromat!

  • Ari July 14, 2009, 10:47 AM


    If you really had game till it came out of your (or anybody else’s) nose, you wouldn’t be complaining about not being able to find a woman. You would be complaining that, with all your choices, you couldn’t find one who was quite right. You would be able to walk up to a woman and get a date, whether in shul (where I found my wife), in a singles event or anywhere for that matter.

    I’m not sure what you want the Jewish community to do for you. Do for yourself. And do what you know is right.

  • ShomerTHIS July 14, 2009, 10:50 AM

    Frum Satire|- Playground= If you are looking to contribute to Tefilindate.com, looking for a sheine milf would be a good place 🙂
    – Trader Joes=If you are looking for a date who is 420 friendly, traderjoes is a good place to find it
    The Laundromat= You need to put out(fabric softener) if you want get something out (…)
    The Library = If you want to be machmir, go to a community library. If you are makel, go to a college library (Try to get a study room, or you will be banned for doing you thing)

  • Sara July 14, 2009, 11:03 AM

    I think it’s sad that women (well some) seem to have such a skewed criteria. All women and men looking to get married should have a criteria for what they are looking for. Personally, I believe that is a part of the reason for the high divorce rates – people don’t know what they’re looking for and so they fall in love with someone who is wrong for them and then end up divorced.
    However, the point is that you all should have a criteria and if rich or “good learner” is above decent/ good human being with good morals and a caring/ loving personality etc… that is simply fucked up (excuse the language) — but it is.
    I was recently at a friends house and these two girls show up. One of them had met my buddy’s roommate at some event and was in town. I’m guessing they were considering going on a date but for the time being she had just popped by to say hi. When it came out in conversation that the guy was about a year younger than the girl, she turns to her girl friend, makes a horrified face, and the two girls kinda laughed. I’m not saying this guy would have been right for her, I hardly know him. However, the fact is that now that she knows how old he is, she will never take the time to get to know him. And that is sad.
    Just remember although a lot of people may have this backwards idea of what’s important in a partner, not everyone does. And you will meet her (whether Jewish or not).

  • Schwartzie July 14, 2009, 11:15 AM

    Not an UWSider- eh, I’m an ok guy I guess, if you can put up with some light domestic violence and a constant stream of verbal abuse. I never forget a birthday, so I’ve got that going for me. I would give you flowers every week before shabbos. Yeah, I would say I’m a good guy. Yeah.

  • Think July 14, 2009, 11:32 AM

    OK, let me get this straight. You don’t earn much, don’t have a career, neither a an earner or a learner, don’t volunteer or do chesed…

    Dude, a Goyah is not going to want you either!

  • not an UWSider July 14, 2009, 11:39 AM

    As long as the domestic violence/spousal abuse could be mutual, then it’s ok. Flowers could make up for that, not always necessary. Maybe thats just me. Remembering birthdays is key, so two point to that! But yeah, i will agree, you do need SOME kind of job 🙂 Sounds mostly good so far…

  • STD July 14, 2009, 12:00 PM


  • Nameless Faceless July 14, 2009, 12:44 PM

    A few things:

    Hesh, did you revamp the site? I only access through my iPhone and it looks a billion times better than before — maybe it’s old news?

    Also, Ari: I’m not sure that his issue is not being able to spit game — I’m thinking that it’s him never having the opportunity. We all know how orthodox Jews separate their men and women and then let’s tack on the insane judging that happens when Yakkov chats up Chana in any kind of unsanctioned meeting. See, that right there is the problem: it’s not the girls themselves but all the crap they absorb from their moms and aunts and old ladies at shul and the fact that they then buy into it and become convinced that silly little things (salary, family social standing, age, beardy fullness factor, etc.) are valid points for dismissing someone. So it’s true that non-Jewish girls are a little more understanding, if only because they haven’t been completely submerged in those ridiculous dating ideas — the same way orthodox girls who have grown up anywhere other than NY/NJ or ortho girls who escaped long enough to get a real college education would be.

    Or you could just make it easy and date a convert 🙂

  • yeshiva dude July 14, 2009, 1:20 PM


    If you date a shiksa, and especially if chas vishalom you have a kid with one, you’re the one who is gonna lose out in the end! Did you know that if you have children with a non-Jew then your neshama cannot find rest and go to gan eden until every one of your non-Jewish decendets are wiped from the face of the earth!!!??? Now if you C’V have many future generations, that can be a very long and torturous time. Think about what you may be getting yourself into!!!

  • Puzzled July 14, 2009, 1:22 PM

    I don’t see why the OP thinks someone should help him meet women. Actually, I think this is one of those oddities of our frum communities – the expectation that there’s some kind of entitlement to help with getting married.

    Yes, a lot of girls are crazy. So are a lot of guys. I recommend looking outside of NY, where people tend to be sane. Or a Chabad house girl.

  • Danny B July 14, 2009, 1:43 PM

    PLEASE CONTACT ME AT bukin86@gmail.com

    Know many girls from all streams of judaism!

    I am in YU but grew up not frum!

    Please let me try and help you out!

    Hope to hear from you!

  • Schwartzie July 14, 2009, 1:44 PM

    If you read the article closely, you’ll notice that my main gripe is that the frum institutions try to keep me and women apart in public, but won’t help me in private, either. I wrote this piece after making eyes at a girl on the other side of the mechitzah last week at a friend’s l’chaim. I wasn’t allowed to speak with her, and I went so far as to ask the kallah to hook me up. All I got was some vague response and no help, and the girl went home before I had a chance to catch her outside.

    That said, the article is a joke. I just know that if I did date a shiksa, people would step it up a notch. I’ve seen it happen.

    Oh, and I am an out of towner, and could probably only marry one (New York girls scare me- they can be quite cold), but I’m in school here and don’t have the time or money to travel the country searching for a normal girl.

    And Yeshiva Dude- you’re nuts. What if my non-Jewish kids converted? What if I had a non-Jewish kid and he killed Ahmadinejad and then married a Jewish woman and had a baby that turned out to be the moshiach? In fact, I hope I do. I’m gonna go try right now.

  • Frum Satire July 14, 2009, 2:07 PM

    “And Yeshiva Dude- youre nuts. What if my non-Jewish kids converted? What if I had a non-Jewish kid and he killed Ahmadinejad and then married a Jewish woman and had a baby that turned out to be the moshiach? In fact, I hope I do. Im gonna go try right now.”

    I love this!!!

  • shevers July 14, 2009, 2:10 PM

    Hello people – basic reading comprehension anyone? Nameless Faceless finally pointed it out – his problem is no one will set him up!

  • Ari July 14, 2009, 3:23 PM

    Nameless Faceless and Shevers:

    The problem is not that nobody will set him up.

    It’s not. That’s the problem he perceives. It’s not likely the problem he has.

    So, he might not have many opportunities to meet Jewish women in his current synagogue and social group. Guess what? There are about a thousand other not quite as machmir synagogues he can go to. There are other social groups as well. Try a Chabad house. A Young Israel or something more modern O.

    And when you do, you bring your A game. That’s all there is to it.

    Whatever objections any of your friends or family may have, I’m sure it’s less severe than dating a shiksa or going OTD.

  • Ari July 14, 2009, 3:25 PM

    Oh, and Schwartzie…

    Being good with women has little to do with bringing them flowers or sending birthday cards.

    In fact, your success with women is inversely proportional to how much you do that kind of thing. Don’t buy women. Charm them.

  • s(b.) July 14, 2009, 3:35 PM


    I don’t have any STDs, but I’m sure there are Jewish people who have STDs (not that I expect people to volunteer that info, but your implication is ridiculous).


    Schwartzie, call the waaahmbulance. If being nice won’t get you dates, why do you think threats will? I realize this is a humorous piece, but if you only intend on marrying a Jewish girl, it’s disrespectful to date people who aren’t Jewish. It’s a waste of their time and energy; I’d go as far as to call it theft, since it’s done on purpose, if marrying a Jewish woman is your ultimate intention.

    That said, I don’t like words shicksa and shaigetz. I think they make Jews look arrogant, as if we’re not willing to take the time to learn what other people’s religions are. File under my distaste for the words goy and schwartze.

    Have an awesome day, all. 🙂

  • Yochanan July 14, 2009, 4:00 PM

    Frum Satire said “The best place to find a date is the playground midday all those moms, no men. ”

    Is there a substantial population of single, frum MILFs?

  • ShomerTHIS July 14, 2009, 4:52 PM

    Yochanan please refer to tefilindate.com and ask Frumpimp if he has anything on the topic of frum milf

  • mensch July 14, 2009, 5:18 PM

    bais yaakov girls are hot!! and they also give much better sex(trust me,i got 9 kids)

  • Yochanan July 14, 2009, 5:27 PM

    I emphasized single, frum MILF.

    His website is all chasidim commiting adultery.

  • frum single female July 14, 2009, 6:59 PM

    if you cant find a frum woman to date you, why make the leap that all jewish women are awful and then only date shiksas? THIS DOES NOT MAKE SENSE. try dating non-frum women. or at least try to . and at least they are actually jewish.

  • bitterwater July 14, 2009, 8:38 PM

    Personally I think i have seen more attractive girls in Israel than in NYC. Florida also seems to provide home to some really attractive Jewish girls.

    For a second there, I forgot dating was all about appearence.

  • Puzzled July 15, 2009, 3:22 AM

    Yes, frum institutions that keep women and men apart are nuts. That’s why I recommend going outside of the institutions. Think about it – if you work within the institution, get set up through shadchans…you’re sending your future kids into the same mess.

  • s(b.) July 15, 2009, 5:19 AM

    “if you can put up with some light domestic violence and a constant stream of verbal abuse.”

    I’m so glad I think you’re being completely facetious. And if for some odd reason you’re not, I totally understand why no one wants to set you up. I dated that guy (not you, but one of that description). No one should ever date someone like that; I did for way too long, ’cause I was stupid. Ladies, if you are in the wrong relationship, please go to http://www.heartless-bitches.com and click The Manipulator Files in the right-hand column. This applies to gentlemen, too — people of both genders can be abusive in relationships. There is some colorful language on that site, but there’s also a bunch of really good information to help get you on the road to getting your life back; no joke.

  • yeshiva dude July 15, 2009, 3:16 PM


    And Yeshiva Dude- youre nuts. What if my non-Jewish kids converted? What if I had a non-Jewish kid and he killed Ahmadinejad and then married a Jewish woman and had a baby that turned out to be the moshiach? In fact, I hope I do. Im gonna go try right now.

    I seriously hope you were joking when you wrote this insane paragraph, cause if not , then you my friend are the one that’s “nuts”. Why don’t you go tell this to the Chazal who came up with this concept cause I surely did not invent it.

  • Frum N' Flipping July 15, 2009, 5:00 PM

    Shwartzie- Sorry to hear your making eyes through the mechitza didn’t work. I tried it last week and we went straight from the hall to a cafe.
    I highly reccomend it- why get dressed up twice?

  • feeling bad July 15, 2009, 11:49 PM

    I dated this girl two years ago and things never worked out. I always felt bad about it, that things were left unsaid and always wished I had another chance. Well last week I saw her in a restaurant and REALLY wanted to go over and talk to her without the whole shadchun formality. But I couldn’t, this was in public and the kind of frummi community i,m in, it just wouldn’t be “normal”(chassidish bearded black hat etc)

  • YOU SPEEK THE TRUTH July 16, 2009, 10:08 PM

    I am a 21 year old guy with the very same problem. To make things worse, I even FIT THE CRITERIA for what these girls are supposedly looking for; i’m very good looking (according to the few girls i know), into learning, smart, sociable and on my way to a very good career, yet nobody has taken the initiative to set me up.

    i see very good looking frum girls all the time, yet in todays world approaching a girl you don’t know or haven been introduced to will end you up being perceived as and in some cases rumored a “creep” or “weirdo”. in this sense, girls are digging their own grave with this supposed “shidduch crisis” bulls***, as the reason girls can’t find guys is because they make it virtually impossible for guys to approach them. they insulate themselves like hermit crabs and expect to get married by some magic voodoocraft. guys i know in YU have the same problem, even with stern right up their alley. message to any single meidel reading this: GET OFF OF YOUR HIGH HORSE. if a guy approaches you, you should be flattered. a friend of mine who attends yu approached a single stern girl who was in the yu library, and the next week two of his friends told him that a rumor had since been circulating that he was a creep who approached a girl in the library (this rumor was started and spread by the girl he approached herself) !!!SICKENING!!!

    anyhow, I am veering off topic. as a single frum guy, i can endorse that what you are saying is true, and even worse than you make it out to be, by virtue of the fact that in my case i even have what these girls supposedly look for in guys, and yet because the culture of inaction that has become the norm within our community i cannot find a decent date. let me add that i do not even have picky or high standards, i would date virtually anyone who someone would just SET ME UP with! yet nobody seems to care. everybody is out for themselves and it is saddening.

    and though i would really like to marry a frum jewish girl, because of the lack of socioemotional interpersonal caring that exists in the frum community, i fear that i will never be able to meet a frum girl. yes, i am fairly young, but believe me, i have seen what the state of affairs is like, and it’s not pretty. as such, i very well may be pushed into dating nonfrum or even nonjewish girls, as the degrees of social normalcy in these communities is much more stable than that in the frum community. it is much easier for me to meet a nonfrum or nonjewish girl then for me to meet a jewish girl, due to the radically absurd social norms which govern girl-guy interactions in this so called ‘community’ of ours.

    if anyone reading this wants to set me up, i would be happy to speak more.

  • not an UWSider July 16, 2009, 11:49 PM

    You Speek (Speak) the truth- I will agree with you, as a girl, we really are a weird bunch. It does boggle my mind how we girls always complain that guys never approach us and then when one finally does we think hes a creep. Its a complete double standard. I will say, though, that you should keep trying. Any girl who thinks you are weird or creepy is clearly not the girl for you, but the right one will appreciate it and love that you took initiative. If you weren’t so young, I would have been super flattered.

    P.S. YU/Stern is not the norm, there are PLENTY of other people in the world that did not attend these schools that are just as good and smart, and frum. The same goes for Tri-state area, there are more people out there if people just opened their eyes…

  • altie July 16, 2009, 11:58 PM

    i agree with u pretty much on all u said. but i dont agree with the ‘if thats how its gonna be, then i might just go date non jewish girls’. thats a childish reaction. like, if it doesnt work out, why bother. u do your part, u stick to jewish girls, (not stivck to them, but u know what i mean.) just do it in the right way. and leave the rest up to g-d.

  • kisarita July 17, 2009, 12:35 AM

    i’m not a guy so i don’t know much about dating “shiksas” but it sure as hell is easier to find a non jewish guy to date than a jewish one.

  • feeling bad July 17, 2009, 11:44 AM

    to “not an UWSider” “You Speek (Speak) the truth- I will agree with you, as a girl, we really are a weird bunch.”

    Like YOU SPEAK THE TRUTH says I don’t think it has anything to do with “Girls being weird” It has to do with our frumm society being stuck up. I think you only think we are creeps if we approach you in the library, because society told you to think that.

    case in point- my sister, a typical frummie BY girl came home one day complaining hysterically that this guy hit on her at the grocery, I asked her was he ugly? she says no, did he try to touch you? no, did you feel unsafe? no this was in public. did you like him? um well I maybe….. but he hit on me!

  • Puzzled July 17, 2009, 11:50 AM

    I agree with feeling bad. If you’re going to complain about “the system” do something about it. I don’t mean by that agitating for change, joining committees, writing letters to newspapers – I mean change your behavior, how you interact with other people, and what your standards are.

  • YOU SPEAK THE TRUTH July 17, 2009, 4:41 PM

    not an UWSIDER:

    I’m not saying there aren’t any girls out there; there are many! All I am saying is that due to their general mentality, they make it virtually impossible for a decent guy to enter their world. This would be the case even if the single girl-guy ratio was 1000000000000:1 . its not a matter of numbers, its a matter of mentality. you say i’m young, but why should that matter? the young age is when setting up and meeting should take place! only when an 18 yr old girl becomes 24 does the fact that she is single become a crisis. if we focused on the younger generation, the problem we are seeing with the older generation would no longer exist!

    i am very frustrated about this. and to those who say that i wouldn’t actually consider going out with a nonfrum/nonjewish girl, wake up. human beings are biological creatures. we have an innate drive to be with somebody. “ein tov lihiyos adam livado” this is an instinctual drive. if it cannot be filled by meeting the ideal frum girl, this will not remove the drive.

    the misperception people have is that they think shwartzei/people like myself are “threatening” when they make these sort of claims. this is not threat! it is a statement of human nature.

    if frum girls refuse to step down from their self-constructed pedestals and continue to aggrandize themselves while bemoaning the state of affairs that they themselves created, they leave no other option to frum guys like myself but to look into other options for companionship and love. if this means dating a nonjewish girl, so be it. it is not a threat. it is a statement of reality.

  • YOU SPEAK THE TRUTH July 17, 2009, 4:54 PM

    by the way, today i met a very nice girl from indiana. she was so normal! she engaged me in conversation, made eye contact, smiled, and was amazing! this is completely unlike the pompous bitchy comportment that i have encountered in “prospective” frum girls. i feel like i am being forced to look outside of the frum community, because whenever i have looked inside, i have either gotten sh** thrown into my eyes or have been ignored by the selfish people who, although have the capacity to set me up or introduce me to girls, refuse to do so or would care more to sit on facebook all day gossiping and uploading thousands of pictures of them and their boyfriend. but there are two types of frum girls with this capacity:

    (a) single frum girls who have the ability to set you up with one of their hundreds of single girl friends but don’t

    (b) in relationship frum girls who have the ability to set you up with one of their hundreds of single girl friends but don’t

    girls of type a don’t want to set you up, because since they themselves are single, they don’t want to see their friends having a boyfriend while she remains woefully single

    and girls of type b want to remain THE girl with the boyfriend. setting up other people would mean that she would no longer have this exclusive/vip status, as others would share the very same status with her. girls like this are selfish, because they want to feel better than thou by virtue of their being in a relationship while other singles, as beautiful as they may be, commiserate.

    either way, i am just trying to give you naysayers out there a idea of what they guys perspective is.

  • YOU SPEAK THE TRUTH July 17, 2009, 5:00 PM

    by the way, PUZZLED:

    how do you suggest i change my behavior to solve this problem? saying “change your behavior and things will change” is easy to say, but give me an example of what you mean. i bet you cant. why? beacuse its not an issue of my behavior. i have been decribed by some friendsof mine as one of the most kind, sweet good looking guys they know. they tell me all the time”you’ll have such an easy time finding a girl!!” but this is not the case. why? because of what i have explained in length about the personality problems of these girls which fences guys out.

    also, NOT and UWSIDER:

    why would it matter if the girl is older than me? what is wrong with dating an older girl? have you really become so subservient in your womanhood to think that a guy has to dominate you with his age?

  • YOU SPEAK THE TRUTH July 17, 2009, 5:04 PM

    i’d like to hear your thoughts about what i had to say there.

  • not an UWSider July 17, 2009, 5:19 PM

    YSTT- (sorry, i must shorten ur name)
    I worry that your “bitchy prospective frum girls” are from a sample of girls that come from the same area. I want to say u are talking abt east coast girls, but then i would look like a fool assuming that’s where u are from. I grew up in the midwest. i know many girls who don’t fall into the “bitchy” category. and yes, they are frum! Again, this all falls into ur criteria for a prospective match, how religious this girl you seek needs to be, where you are looking, what you are looking for, obviously a person has SOME requirements in a partner. But generalizing all frum girls as pompous and bitchy is insulting and untrue.
    Second of all, ask all of my friends, I have never been one to scoff at younger guys, I welcome them. I do think tho that, in this case a 3 yr difference is big, especially at a point where ppl are at different stages in their lives (i.e. finishing school, having a job, etc). I did not mean to imply that you are young, only that you are younger (maybe the difference is only in my own mind) Please don’t assume that i “need a guy to dominate me with his age,” I don’t, and im not even sure what that means….
    Either way, I understand your frustration, I have guy friends. I DO live in the UWS so i can smell the desperation in the air on a daily basis. Just so you know, a lot of girls feel like you in the sense that they feel that guys never approach them or make conversation. They, in turn, have to make the first move, or start the conversation and often find that this scares a lot of frum boys away. Both sides have to get their priorities in check, and know what they want. Enough with these rules on how to behave and who talks to who, and what each gesture and each word, and each smile reeeeally means. Just be real. Everyone appreciates a person who can be real.
    For now, i suggest that since this topic has clearly gotten you heated up (understandably so) maybe you should take a cold shower and think positive thoughts 🙂

  • Puzzled July 17, 2009, 5:45 PM

    You Speak The Truth – my suggestions for changed behavior are pretty simple and seem obvious given the problems you’ve identified. Basically, I would suggest looking into observant conservadox women, or Chabad house women. If a girl is crazy and wants to keep guys fenced out, don’t give her a chance. Don’t do the shidduch thing, because this only encourages them. Go outside the frum world if its institutions are making people crazy.

    For girls, I suggest behaving normally and not calling guys creeps for trying to talk to them.

    When I say changed behavior, I don’t mean your approach to women, I mean the behaviors leading to the problems you’re talking about.

  • YOU SPEAK THE TRUTH July 17, 2009, 7:06 PM

    not an UWSider:

    i did say all frum girls are bitchy, all i intended to convey was that nearly every girl who I have interacted with within the frum community in the context of dating was a pompous bitch. you cannot argue with my experiences. these are the experiences i have had. i understand it does not mean all frum girls are like the ones i have interacted with. in regard to geographical information, i have intereacted with frum girls from different areas of the world and america, and i got the same impression from just about all of them.

    you write ” I would suggest looking into observant conservadox women, or Chabad house women.” havent you read anything i have written? what do you mean “look into a… women”?? how do i go about “looking into a woman” exactly? that doesnt mean anything to me. all it possibly mean is to try to get set up with one, which as i have explained, is impossible.

  • YOU SPEAK THE TRUTH July 17, 2009, 7:12 PM

    by the way, another point to puzzled:

    the way you speak in ambiguous terms and phrases such as “look into x” “look into y” is part of the problem i am decribing. your response to my situation is pretty much the typical one i get when i share it with somebody. they say “oh, that’s because xyz” “you should look into abc” where xyz and abc are just placeholders for some unintelligable, ambiguous , peice of pseudo’advice’ which in reality is just a load of BS. i have tried all you have told me to no avail. banal common sense ambiguities are not authentic pieces of advice.

  • YOU SPEAK THE TRUTH July 17, 2009, 7:33 PM

    by the way, another point to puzzled::

    the way you speak in ambiguous terms and phrases such as “look into x” “look into y” is part of the problem i am decribing. your response to my situation is pretty much the typical one i get when i share it with somebody. they say “oh, that’s because xyz” “you should look into abc” where xyz and abc are just placeholders for some unintelligable, ambiguous , peice of pseudo’advice’ which in reality is just a load of BS. i have tried all you have told me to no avail. banal common sense ambiguities are not authentic pieces of advice.

  • not an UWSider July 17, 2009, 7:40 PM

    I am sorry your experiences have been so bad. I wish I could do something to change that…. My only hope is that you meet one girl that will change your mind, hopefully someday soon. And if you were my friend I would make a sincere effort to come up with some single ladies that u could meet…Just to prove you wrong 🙂

  • Phil July 18, 2009, 11:18 PM


    Frm what you describe about yourself, you don’t sound like anyone any marriage minded girl would date, Jew or non Jew.

    If you’re looking to get married, how about getting you’re act together and make yourself presentable?

    If you’re looking to date for fun, you might get lucky and and up with someone that will end up being your wife because she’ll eventually see the good in you. You might also just waste time with immature girls.

    Finding a shiksa won’t make anyone set you up, it will just make you into more damaged goods than you are already considered.

  • Schwartzie July 19, 2009, 11:39 AM

    Oy, Phil! What am I doing with my life? I really feel that I need to make some improvements and I just don’t know where to start. All I want is for girls to like me, not just for who I can be, but for who I have already become. Not.

    Why don’t you go crap in your hat, buddy.

  • Phil July 19, 2009, 11:59 AM


    No need to be nasty, I was just offering my advice, take it or leave it. Take a good look in the mirror before you decide the problem is with everyone else.

  • Puzzled July 19, 2009, 1:54 PM

    Why on earth would it mean that? What I was trying to get across to you was that there are women on earth who don’t think it’s weird for men to do things like try to talk to them. There are women who you can speak to without being set up.

    Your posts have been full of complaints about the frum community, crazy women, and ways of doing things you don’t like. I responded that an obvious solution would be to step outside the frum community which you don’t seem all too pleased with. Yet you assume that in order to do that, you need to bring the shadchan blind date system with you?

    How do you look into women outside of the frum community? By meeting them and talking to them, not asking someone to set you up. JCCs have singles events, and conservative shuls often have mixers, social clubs, and learning opportunities if you aren’t comfortable going there for davening. These are all great chances to meet women by means of speaking to them – and with learning groups and social clubs, you already know things you have in common with them.

  • Schwartzie July 19, 2009, 7:35 PM

    Bring me your virgins and bring them now.

  • yakov July 21, 2009, 2:24 AM

    If you date a Shiksa you will get AIDS and die, and your penis will fall off

    • Latyo June 27, 2018, 2:18 PM

      That makes no sense

    • Putput September 29, 2019, 8:57 AM

      You are a small ignorant idiot.
      We all know plenty of shameful rabbi’s who probably could be carrying for the same reason so your comment is ridiculous.

  • Mr. X February 27, 2010, 2:41 PM

    Intermarriage amongst self hating Jews is easily explained. The Stockholm Syndrome afficting self hating Jews is easy to explain. Lets tackle no-marriage and/or intermarriage from the self resepcting Jew. Most of us were raised in post modern democrat party voting households consisting of intensly man hating domineering Jewish women, whose tyranny was aided and abbeted by an overly soft spoken obsiquiously frightened father. As a result, the daughters of our people are repulsed by their memory of a weak man assuming the role of a shmata enabling the mother and possibly daughters of the family. While the men do not wish to be a shmatah or deal with feminism. Self respecting Jewish men are politically conservative and most Jewish women are not. The only way for a Jewish man to marry a Jewish women is to find one who is converting. Otherwise find a traditionally family oriented Filipina (from the Philipinnes) woman like I did. And she goes to shul with me and is assists me with right wing pro settlment Jewish causes. A man needs love and approval, even Jewish men. And until our community re-learns how to love and respect our men, intermarriage is a viable option.

  • NEVER a SHIKSA March 7, 2010, 10:41 PM

    MR. X


  • Shtuping the night away March 7, 2010, 10:48 PM

    I once dated a Puerto Rican girl that was going through conversion.

    Lets just say I made her a Jew by injection.

  • Latyo June 27, 2018, 2:16 PM

    I’m not jewish but I really like a Jewish man, and he likes me. I understand wanting to preserve the jewish way but Dont you think people should just be happy with whoever makes them happy❤

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