Guest post by Anonymous girl…
So I was the only non-madricha BT on my trip to Israel this year, standing out like a sore thumb, to be sure, but not giving a rat`s tuches what other people thought. The “Aren`t you just dying in this heat from wearing all those clothe” got a little annoying after a while, considering I found myself most comfortable and not sunburned. For me, it was an opportunity to show people that being religious is not all or nothing, and exploring Judaism can be a lot of fun too.
But as is often the case on these peer-oriented tours of Israel for the 20 something privileged yidden of North America, the vast majority are merely interested in the subsidized ticket to Israel, and the opportunity to go out every night to club land, drink, and pick up strange Israeli men. Judaism? What? (insert hangover vomit and kvetching about the heat, food, length of shiurim, crappiness of content presentation, etc…)
So a friend of mine is at Ohr Somayach and asks that I come chill with him and his friends one night in `Crack Square` or the infamous club district of Jerusalem– home of Zolli`s the hookah bar and various off-the-derech youth staying out at all hours of the night picking up sex partners or drugs or both. Not that I judge, seeing as I have my own colorful past to deny as a proud flaming BT. But I find myself more often than not older than these kids, so much of their rebellious behavior I got out of my system before putting on a skirt and davening everyday.
So there we are, sitting at Zollis smoking nargila and drinking and his friends are conspiring a shidduch between him and I, but he won`t date me because the mystique of me has worn off since I cut off my dreadlocks, and he`s found out that I`m recently out of a *gasp* long term relationship and thinks I can`t hear him when he tells his friend he can`t, cause I`m a `bat zona.`
Whatever, he`s younger than me, not *really* my type, and what do I care what someone whose last sexual encounter was head from a blind girl thinks of me? He`s the one missing out. Enjoy your pure Israelite virgins. From my old ways and years of experience I know that inexperienced guys tend to do the deed better anyway (meaning I don`t limit my dating realm to only ex-sluts also), and it bothers me I intimidate them so much, but whatever. I`m damaged goods and they apparently all want to marry girls who wouldn`t know the first thing about pleasing a man. That`s OK, it only means he isn`t my bashert. I have thick skin.
So the topic of sluts comes up and I admit that I guess on some level I am an ex-slut, but unlike many ex-sluts I can remember who I`ve slept with, and it hasn`t been that many people… AND, my period of experimentation was fairly short lived around the ages of 20-22… Then I got Aished and realized that non-committed sexual acts are not really worth it, and that`s why I feel so empty… Yada, yada, took a year to dump my goyfriend and become shomer negiah, and now I wear skirts and don`t touch boys… Oh, and I`m not even in the dating scene right now, but rather in my swearing off men phase because being shomer negiah for a month is nothing short of a joke, and I would not make good dating material anyway… Or at least so says my chavrusa.
When lo and behold, their rabbi from the yeshiva comes by to say hello and take our picture (evidence?) and asks us all if we go to Ohr Somayach, including me.
`Clearly I do not, rabbi` I say in my defense.
To which he responds, `Ah, but for all I know you could be sneaking into the dorm rooms at night, so that`s why I asked.`
At which point I get all paranoid and weird, questioning why I am sitting on a patio with a bunch of horny guys from Ohr Somayach drinking and smoking late at night. I clearly look the part, and I guess on some level deserved the comment.
But I can`t help it, I used to work in a club and have lots of guy friends, and there were no religious girls on my trip I connected with, and clubbing and boozing hard was not the reason I was in Israel, and so freaky yeshiva boys on a patio just seemed to be where it was at that given night. They were all very funny, came from various backgrounds and had good stories, thought I was a nice girl and sure on some level it was flattering they were trying to hook me up with my friend. But I thought I was mature enough to see that it ended there.
My intentions weren`t to have some seminary girls gone wild experience, but it appears I exude this energy given it was not the last time I was implied to be some slut in a skirt.
It seems the female madrichim all had crushes on our logistical madrich, and would flirt with him to no end. So when our free Shabbos came round, and I had nowhere to stay, he kindly offered me a place to stay with him and his family just south of Jerusalem in a small community. Before leaving Friday afternoon to meet him at the bus station, one of the jealous madrichim looks at me and warns me not to do anything naughty, as if to say I would dare do such a thing as sleep with some 22 year old man boy in his PARENTS home on Shabbos!!!
I was so offended and asked her why she would say something like that, and she said, `Because he is hot, and I wish I could be in your position right now.`
Ew.
Firstly, he was much too hairy, too young, and did not speak English well enough to form a real connection (I am very cerebral and need a serious intellectual connection to spark sexual attraction, and broken falafel English does not cut it). That, and I just do not picture myself getting involved with Sephardi men (Woman! Bring me my feesh!).
His family was nice, did not speak much English either, but the food was amazing, and it was a great opportunity to practice my Hebrew and for them to practice English. I attended his cousins bar mitzvah in shul the next morning, and we threw candy over the mechitza and over all it was very nice and lewd thoughts did not enter my mind once except to fantasize about non-loser guys back home that I did not meet in Israel.
And none of his friends thought I was his girlfriend, in fact a lot of people thought I was his cousin visiting from out of town (a lot of people think I am Sephardi because I am dark and tan like a mofo). And motzei Shabbos he took me to his friends birthday bbq where I got to discuss gemara and physics with a Hebron settler for three hours– quite the treat as an astrophysics major!
But the judgment from my tour group was unimaginable. Upon returning its like everyone wanted details on the SURELY scandalous events of the weekend. One thing I picked up in Israel however is how quick people are to judge based on appearance, and it saddens me. Also the baseless hatred making even more evident how far we are as a people from ever rebuilding the Temple.
On the flipside having random Israelis tell me I need to make aliyah and that they think I will meet my zivug very soon was kind of nice, making me wish I had the means to move to Israel. Even the guy sitting next to me on the flight home looked into my eyes and told me I should make aliyah soon or I will find a husband here and never make the move (how sweet).
Or this cabbie in Jerusalem who took me to Kevel Rachel to daven for my zivug and healing for a flat fee one afternoon, and I must say it was the best 30 dollars I ever spent. He even waited for me while I davened, because he said I had a lot of emuna and that I was kind to do a mitzvah of waiting for him in his running cab while he went to run to an errand (and did not steal his cab, I guess?).
And meeting real West Bank settlers in their home environment and seeing for myself that they are not really so crazy as Western media portrays them was eye opening.
Or how about the seminary girls from Bat Ayin who rescued me that Shabbos I got lost in the Old City on my way to my assigned family for lunch… And ended up taking me to the Machlas… That was such an adventure!
In the end, it still kind of shocks me they let us put the GOT AISHED? slogan on our t-shirts for the trip, seeing as some participants would mention how insulting that is to their intelligence to even dream of calling them Aished. Pfft… I rarely if ever mentioned what I study in school, and I do not need a fancy education to brag about my intelligence. Not to mention what is the harm in having a sense of humor about this seemingly pejorative term?
The way I see it, we were all taking the term back and retransforming it into something positive. It will only bring more attention to their kiruv cause and hopefully give someone a chuckle when I decide to sport the t-shirt on my next trip to NYC later this year.
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{ 57 comments… read them below or add one }
I happen to have a nice guy that might enjoy your cerebral nature. Nice post.
Wow. Quite a story. As for ‘crack square’, from my experience, most girls who willingly hang out there, are just that… Girls with no real direction.
Ah, jerusalem and the old city can be magical places if experienced correctly.
The west bank is a place i know well, the jews living there are for the most part great and very warm people.
I just have one question, are there any more girls of your depth in israel?
What’s the chabad equivalent of “Got Aished”?
hm….got tanyaed? got rebbe-ed? maybe got freylach?
i REALLY loved this post. kudos to the authorette (who i might like to actually talk to, hesh, can you put us in contact?)
It sounds like this was written by a fat girl with low self esteem.
maybe i am a moron with a really poor reading comprehension, but WTF was the point of this post? it felt like random mumblings of your experience in Israel. after reading this, it sounds like you want someone to tell you that you either do look like a slut in a skirt or not. which is not something readers can really assess. so again, what was the point of your blog?
A frum girl with a degree in astrophysics? Call me!
Yes Jelen I can put you two in touch
Hesh-It really isn’t fair that you put up this post without a picture of the girl.I mean c’mon you want to help this girl out or what?
Wow, that was boring and incomprehensible.
TRS – Got Lubed!!
Admittedly not much thought was put into the post. I was jet lagged when I wrote it, and did not go back and edit it at all.
So it is actually a huge mumbling ramble with no real point to it.
And I think I am done with Crack Square. I’m not going to pretend like my life is full of much direction either, which is evidenced by how I ended up there.
And the experience of Crack Square made me realize that if I do not want to be considered a ho I should find better places to hang out. This is why I ended up just leaving angrily because the whole night felt like a stupid waste. But being relatively new to Israel at the time, I did not know any better.
And yes, I do have low self esteem.
My name aside, this post that you authored is probably in some ways cathartic and in other ways a commentary on that segment of society.
I hope and trust you will find your place and comfort level with your new or recently found religiosity.
That said, I think it was right on and I’ll join the chorus in complimenting the frum astrophysicist.
Wow, add me to the list of admirers, Hesh, you can send her my FB page if you wanna..
Yes, but I am fat and have low self-esteem and my parents are poor. You wouldn’t like me anyway.
Don’t sell yourself short
Anonymous Girl, what might help is to think of your good qualities and strengths. And go from there. With this perspective, you can go far
great post I really enjoyed the read.
I agree, and that’s why I don’t plan on dating for a while because I’m sick of letting the men in my life drain that ability from me. I have never been the prettiest girl in the room but I had like 20 random older men try to pick me up in Jerusalem and insist I take their numbers. It was disgusting, but I guess that serves me right for always dating older guys. But it’s gross to me now because I realize they only ever wanted one thing and one thing only and it’s scarred me.
I’m tired of being emotionally dependent on them, and feeling like I can’t be own person without a companion. It’s lame and unhealthy.
I never wrote this to find dates.
I wonder though does time really change the emotions and self perceptions that you have brewing inside of you?
No but I believe in the effects of cognitive behavioral therapy and making better use of that time to better oneself as a person.
But I’m really never going to be able to trust men again so it won’t shock me if I end up alone at 35 anyway.
And if I really want a scientific career where does time factor in to have a happy marriage and children?
So maybe I should just start learning to accept my lot in life and be happy about it.
WOW, what happened to you?
It’s honestly too long and grotesque to write here. If you really want to know, ask Heshy for my contact information.
And if I really want a scientific career where does time factor in to have a happy marriage and children?
It depends on what you chose to prioritize in life, besides it seems like you are trying to settle for less. Never sell yourself short. You as much as any other girl deserves a good healthy relationship and marriage. Just don’t give up hope, your too unique for that.
Seconded bitterwater’s statement, and told Heshy he can give you my details too.
Leave the poor girl alone, she was just posting some musings on her trip. I don’t think she does looking for sex, or compliments, or insults.
Aish and the like prey on people’s superstitions and naivete by massaging the data. There’s plenty of good reasons to be frum, but Aish will tell you anything just to get you frum. However, if you keep learning, you’ll discover that much of what they teach is bunk.
And FYI, the actual prohibition of shomer negiya isn’t touching– it’s touching derekh hiba (by way of affection). And even that has little basis in the tradition beyond that a women post-menses shouldn’t have sex with a man until she’s dipped in a mikve mayim. Ay, there’s the rub.
Anyway, good luck figuring things out. As this past week’s haftarah prophet Micah says:
6: 8 It hath been told thee, O man, what is good, and what the LORD doth require of thee: only to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God.
Hey Anonymous Girl, you seem to be one of a kind (that’s meant as a compliment). Being a woman, I found your post very moving. I do hope that writing it has helped you work out your mixed feelings.
IMHO, not all male attention is inappropriate. As you imply, some men will find you attractive and interesting as a human being, others will be only interested in one thing. Live and learn to distinguish the two and learn to trust the good ones…
It sounds like you had a horrible experience in that bar but that tells me more about OS than it does about you…So, chin up! Most things will work themselves out – being accepted by a small-minded community of guys out to prove something to themselves and their peers however never will.
Chabad kids didn’t get the chabad equivalent of aished. It needs it’s own unique term because those kids, in my experience, mostly do to it to themselves (even though the chabad attitude doesn’t exactly push them away). Kids who become chabad tend to be really crazy (Religious 6 months and now believes in yechi and tefillin patrol) or (through chabad’s lie of omission) didn’t really realize there was any other way to be frum if you didn’t put on Rabbeinu Tam and keep hardcore cholev yisroel.
I’d still rather deal with chabad kids than aished ones though.
This didn’t seem to get posted before. Was it moderated?
Aish and the like prey on people’s superstitions and naivete by massaging the data. There’s plenty of good reasons to be frum, but Aish will tell you anything just to get you frum. However, if you keep learning, you’ll discover that much of what they teach is bunk.
And FYI, the actual prohibition of shomer negiya isn’t touching– it’s touching derekh hiba (by way of affection). And even that has little basis in the tradition beyond that a women post-menses shouldn’t have sex with a man until she’s dipped in a mikve mayim. Ay, there’s the rub.
num 17 “”think of your good qualities and strengths. And from there…you can go far”
True, good to think positively. We should also remember Who gives us our strength and helps us to be successful. We only put in the effort. Whether or not we are successful is up to Him.
May you have hatzlacha in finding your beshert
AG, don’t sell yourself short. I spent a few weeks just talking with my wife on the phone, before I ever went out with her on a blind date. She wasn’t exactly was I was LOOKING for, but the rest of the package made up for it. Your stream-of-conscience post is wonderful and as a physics major, you should be able to make any geek happy. As for your low self-esteem, you’re probably standing on the wrong side of the Mobius strip
AG, sounds like you have some interesting stories to tell– just flesh them out with detail and don’t try to tell too many at once. I’d like to hear from you again
Hi there,
Ugh, I liked! So clear and positively.
Anonymous Girl
I think you and Sergeant J can really hit it off.He definitly aint rich and chances are if he’s a Sergeant he’s ugly(just kiddin,see as a former Airman I used to take orders from these guys,so now it’s payback time AND PAYBACK’s A BITCH)
Another nice guest post. I’m almost surprised that the more rabid commenters didnt try to tear the woman down (yet?).
My experience with Aish has been mostly positive and has helped me get off the ground so to speak with my spiritual journey. I would like to go to sem, and those girls from Bat Ayin really moved me and it was nice to spend a Shabbos afternoon with them.
I think I’d like to consider learning where they are for a few months maybe next year or something.
That is if they can find room for me.
Dear Author – I love you very much and want to make Jewish babies with you.
I realize anonymous internet people will never realize their dreams, but YOU GO GIRL/WOMAN/GRRL/GRRRL
That is very kind of you but I do not believe you.
Anyon Girl
This was a good post… I laughed much … b/c I can identify w/you every step of the way…. you’re honesty was endearing and not the product of low sel esteem.
To Anonymous Girl,
Very good post– clearly meant to be a snapshot of where you’re at, at a particular confusing point in time.
As someone a couple of decades older, who is lucky enough to be married to someone who I clearly don’t deserve, please let me encourage you to keep a good attitude, and it’ll all work out for the best somehow. Many people do suck, in all groups, but you are in charge of yourself, and your relationship with G-d. You sound like you have a lot to offer a lucky guy, once you’re ready for it.
Good luck.
I’d rather be alone at 35 than feel stuck in the wrong marriage/relationship at 35. I’m not 35, but, seriously, there are a million worse things to be than alone. And alone’s not necessarily bad. And I am close with someone who also had bad experience that may be similar to whatever happened to you, and if that was the case, I understand your mistrust. http://www.joy2meu.com is a website that may have some info that may help you.
Okay, am I the only one who got that this might be just a made-up girl..as in Heshy???? Her writing style is very familiar…
it’s not, i spoke to her. she exists.
Thanks for jotting down your musings.
You really captured the mood of youth in Jerusalem and I could relate on so many levels.
I thought it was pretty skeevy for the rabbi person to presume you sneak into a yeshiva at night…I don’t want to wonder what was going through his mind when he said such a nasty thing.
f 43: No way – the sentences have structure, grammar and spelling.
I second Jelen
The person who wrote this sounds like she has a really low self esteem and is trying real hard to create an image of herself as being drop dead gorgeous and all guys are chasing after her. Aside from all that it was quite an entertaining read.
Anonymous Girl–I really liked this post. I know people you could speak to more about Gemara (and halacha) and physics if you’re interested. You seem like a smart, with-it woman who knows what she wants.
yeshiva dude,
Actually I was trying to illustrate in the comment section that even fat ugly chicks are faced with the societal pressure to put out. I don’t actually think all guys are chasing after me, but I have also had no shortage of partners ever.
You’d be surprised with who dudes will flirt– it’s kind of sad and lame.
Also the whole experience was a lesson in the value of tznius in a way.
After a woman has been sexually active her aura changes and I believe that affects the males around her. Guys can easily pick up on girls who’ve had a lot of experience and when given the right dose of hormones will easily look past physical flaws if it means an easy and possibly satisfying lay.
Meaning I feel even more obligated to protect that part of myself from strange men in the future because obviously it leads to no good.
f,
I purposely wrote to the style of the blog to make it accessible and hopefully entertaining to the audience.
I thought I was trying to illustrate in the comment section that even fat ugly chicks are faced with societal pressure to put out.
Or that surprisingly a lot of guys will look past physical flaws if they sense a girl is experienced because their hormones control their minds.
I am not hot but I’ve never had any shortage of partners ever. Guys are not chasing after me, obviously, but they way they act in front of women sometimes is appalling.
Honestly I think half the reason guys have tried to pick me up is in fact because I’m not that good looking and surely must have low standards and will take whatever I can get, good or bad. They don’t have the balls to actually go after a hot chick and for some reason pick me.
But then to be rejected by some religious asshole who is a total perv and clearly has no respect for women and then dares to pass judgment on me?
To hell with him.
Hi there Anonymous Girl,
Okay, I believe you are real. that’s nice. I am tired of tricks on the web lately…
About the choices you are making:
Good for you! Self-respect is one of the things that Judaism can be good for. It also has helped me not get int some uncomfortable situations at work. Not that I won’t be alone in a room with a man, but remembering that Judaism takes seriously that pull that happens when you are alone together with the opposite gender, and if it isn’t something that you want, then you have the right to set boundaries (I’m married, too, but it would be the same if I wasn’t) and then to look around an see how complicated everyone else is making their relationships by being so off-handed about it, and maybe feeling pressured to just go with it, even if they are sorry afterwards… Respecting oneself doesn’t always mean doing whatever you want, as sometimes our society pushes us to.
My 2 cents…
I will say, it bothers me when people assume the worst about people who simply are in certain parts of jerusalem, like “crack square.” I have been there with friends under completely innocent pretenses. Not everyone there is out for sex, drugs, etc. Its these stereotypes that drive me crazy.
That being said, the Rabbi from OS was completely rude and that was uncalled for. My HS principle was the same way and it always infuriated my friends and I that people automatically assume the worst about us, when we were such good kids growing up.
On the same note, I would suggest that you, AG, have become super sensitive to men in general and knowing what you know now you assume the worst of men as well. I think it would be helpful to work on that issue instead of saying that you are “never going to be able to trust men again.” Maybe its not men who notice the different aura you emit, but you who subconsciously make that who you are and how people perceive you.
I do, though, relate to a lot of what you said and think that everything takes time, and one cannot completely change their lifestyle overnight and assume it will be ok right away. good luck!
Before haranguing me about how I judge others and send off subconscious slut vibes asking to be harrassed (because really, that`s WHO I AM), try walking a mile in my shoes.
All the men I`ve been involved with have been abusive on some level. Maybe you`ve heard of battered wife syndrome, or maybe you haven`t. I`ve been drugged numerous times and had to fight off rape attacks as a teenager.
Being the only Jew in my public school growing up, the boys used to push me down in the schoolyard after class and kick me in the head and stomach telling me that I should go back to the ovens.
Clearly I do not think changing my lifestyle was going to make everything OK overnight.
So excuse me if all my previous experiences make me look at all men like neanderthals, when that is actually how they act much of the time.
It`s going to be a long while before I`ve gotten over these issues, and no therapy isn`t going to help. I spent eight years in therapy trying to sort through all the times I`ve been physically attacked and became severely depressed as a result.
I am for the time being, damaged goods, and no one is ever going to want to be involved with me for probably many years because I`m so fucked up by my past. I will deal with it, however.
By some divine providence I found trust in Hashem to heal me. Little by little it`s working, and if it takes me another ten years to accomplish some semblance of normalcy then so be it.
Why would you be a misnagid shicksa?
To be honest, I don’t know where I belong any more.