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Gay pride in Jerusalem: What do you think?

Below is footage taken from the peaceful Charedi protest of the Gay Pride parade in Jerusalem on that same day. I said tehillim, met some friends and when there was no rioting we left and went to the actual parade which sucked and had no real flamboyantly gay people, which come out in droves for parades in America.

The question I pose here is this. I know of people who are pro-gay rights, but anti gay pride parades in Jerusalem. It is a hboly city and this doesn’t belong they say.

But how can you be pro-gay and then say that it’s not allowed in a holy city. That seems hypocritical, or is it?

{ 45 comments… add one }
  • SF2K1 June 30, 2009, 7:43 AM

    Because they’re pro-gay rights, and respectful (unlike some of these protesters) of culture? If I was free to eat pork, I wouldn’t go flaunting pork as the best thing in the world in a city where people were offended by it.

  • Ken June 30, 2009, 9:17 AM

    I have a lot of gay friends, and they hate me because when I see things about gay-pride parades in J”lem, I say “Really, just find a different town.”

    There’s a reason Gwar doesn’t play shows in Branson. It’s not their scene.

  • Anonymous June 30, 2009, 9:20 AM

    Gay pride in Jerusalem was pretty tame compared to the one in Toronto (I went to both)… I didn’t see any full frontal nudity from scary old men in Jerusalem and the entire time it felt like a heterosexual festival peppered with homos.

    And the night time celebration was mostly straight people trying to pick up.

    But in Toronto I had people coming up to me left right and centre trying to kiss me and everyone is drunk and saying I Love You… But I went mostly cause friends were working, and it was a good excuse to catch up with some of them since coming home from Israel.

    Meh.

    At least some patio had a cheap beer special for Pride too, didn`t see that in Jerusalem.

  • Chava June 30, 2009, 9:45 AM

    Personally, I think that until gays are NOT protested and treated as second-class citizens, they should show their pride wherever they can. If the Charedi want the gay pride parades to settle down, then they should stop suppressing the rights of gay and lesbians. Full equality goes a LONG way towards reducing activist activities within any community.

  • ASB June 30, 2009, 9:49 AM

    There are lots of gay people in Jlem. In fact, the LGBT population of Jerusalem is the most abused, hidden, and discriminated against in all of Israel. A pride march means visibility, and in Jlem is where they need it most.

    Nobody is having sex on the street or walking around naked. They’re just saying “we exist, and it’s time you started giving us our rights”.

  • ASB June 30, 2009, 9:53 AM

    There are plenty of gay & lesbian people in Jerusalem.They already live there. It’s their town. And in Jlem they’re more abused, hidden, and discriminated against than just about anywhere else in Israel.

    A gay pride march is a protest. It means visibility. It says “we exist and it’s about time you gave us our rights”.

    Nobody’s having sex on the street or walking around naked or showing porno involving same-sex couples.

    There’s nothing wrong with Jerusalemites saying “I live here and I’m not going to put up with your crap”. And if you treat someone who says “I’m gay” the same as someone who is being sexually indecent, then it’s you who’ve got the problem.

  • Frum But Fun June 30, 2009, 10:03 AM

    We could have a gay candidate running for office for all I care. The truth is most people don’t feel having a homosexual representing for them and therefore won’t vote for him. I think gays should be treated with the same respect and equality as anyone else but it doesn’t mean we should promote that lifestyle. I am against same sex marriage for the same reason. I think the sanctity of J’lem should be respected and therefore the gays shouldn’t hold their parade there. My overall thought is let the people vote and decide.

  • Frum Satire June 30, 2009, 10:48 AM

    SFK – you have a very good point and I agree.

  • s(b.) June 30, 2009, 11:03 AM

    sfk/hesh, eating pork is a choice, but G-d creates GLBT people the same way G-d creates heterosexual people. It’s not a lifelong choice people choose to make (I don’t mean drunk girls making out in college). Even those who choose to abstain from sexual activity are still GLBT, they’re just not sexually active. re: gay marriage in Israel, last I knew, Christians marrying Christians isn’t even recognized – the Israeli govt. has a long way to go (and love is love. if two people want to enter into a committed relationship publicly, let them, and give them the same govt benefits as male/female married couples. you don’t need a rabbi to have two observant people sign a ketubah regardless of the loving people’s genders.).

  • Michele June 30, 2009, 11:04 AM

    I am risking writing this because truly it means I will now receive others comments to this thread in my email… but as one of my son’s is now studying for his Bar Mitzvah, his portion is Nitzavim ~Vayelech and he is learning about the need to stand and listen, and then go forward… I am going to move forward and strongly voice that if you call … Read Moreyourself religious in any definition than that must equal acceptance (more than tolerance.) Please step out of your comfort zone and truly walk a mile in others shoes, meet the wonderful men and women who are gay and let them share who they are. I have found that the very same people who are critical of gays, are critical of those who are not shomer shabbos, for example… open your eyes and see that there are incredibly good, incredibly special and incredibly kind people in this world and they are not all straight or Jewish for that matter.

  • Anon June 30, 2009, 12:54 PM

    Michelle, it’s funny how you use the Torah to be tolerant about people to engage in activities that are anti-Torah.

    Some people are so twisted…

  • Rivky June 30, 2009, 12:55 PM

    I’m exceedingly liberal (albeit closeted) when it comes to gay rights. Gay marriage? Fine. Gay representatives in elected office? Wonderful.

    What I don’t understand is this incessant need to go out of their way to make a point. Tel Aviv is incredibly LGBT friendly and they have a pride parade there. Toronto has a pride parade in the gay neighborhood on Jarvis Street, and so do so very many other cities that have pride parades.

    Let’s pretend for just a second. Forget for a moment that Yerushalayim is a holy city. Are the residents there comfortable with homosexuality? No. Is there a large population of homosexuals, bisexuals or transgendered in the city? No. It’s for exactly the same reason that you wouldn’t march down Montgomery, Alabama’s streets waving rainbow flags and wearing leather chaps with tighty whities or dance on Simchas Torah in front of a Ku Klux Klan rally – use a bit of common sense and accept that in some places, there’s not going to be a change in how people perceive you.

    Yes – there are people in the frum/chareidi community who are struggling with their sexuality – I don’t dispute that they need an outlet or to be shown some love and acceptance. What I do dispute is the need to parade through a boilerplate city demanding to be accepted when the likelihood, however frustrating, is that those demands will never be met.

  • curious June 30, 2009, 1:03 PM

    Frum but fun: I think gays should be treated with the same respect and equality as anyone else …. I am against same sex marriage

    You don’t see any flaws in your logic?

  • shai June 30, 2009, 1:07 PM

    the hypocrisy belongs to those people who are in favor of a democratic state, yet think a gay pride parade is not ‘appropriate’ for Jerusalem.

    Democracy means you allow the right to congregate, ESPECIALLY if you don’t agree with the cause, and ESPECIALLY if it causes discomfort. If it’s not inciting hatred or violence, and there is a critical mass of supporters willing to promote a cause, it is their right to do so. If it’s not, then we can’t pretend to be living in a ‘free country’.

  • Frum Satire June 30, 2009, 1:28 PM

    Shai – you happen to be right and if someone had a response like. “we could vote on the issue” and a vote in Jerusalem would probably come out not in favor of the march – that would be a considered Tyranny of the Majority – a classic ordeal spoken in length by out founding fathers when debating the Bill of Rights.

  • Sergeant J June 30, 2009, 1:37 PM

    I have to admit, I (and my best friend, a lesbian) were worried that a Jerusalem parade would be as flamboyant as some of the ones in the states.. since it was not, I now have no issue with it…

  • STRAIGHT MAN June 30, 2009, 3:40 PM

    I just don’t see the need to proclaim that they’re proud to engage in anal and oral sex. Whats next pride for practictitioners of beatiality and necrophillia? Let them all go back in their closets to practice their perversions.

    I must admit that although I actively participate in heterosexual sex with my lawfully wedded partner, I don’t go around proclaiming that I’m straight and I’m proud. It’s something to enjoy, not to be proad of.

    • Ze'ev March 24, 2011, 6:49 AM

      You just proclaimed your straight-ness. Just now. Didn’t you notice? Please, keep any references to your lawfully wedded partner in the closet from now on.

  • SF2K1 June 30, 2009, 4:19 PM

    SB – The implicit part of my point is that choice or no choice or supporter doesn’t matter, although to be frank, scientifically it is a choice for far less than the existing population of those who identify as such.

    They have no right to parade something that is inherently offensive to such a significant portion of the populace (and don’t be fooled, this is indeed the goal, not visibility, many of these people come from out of town to parade here). The charedim, conversely, don’t march and protest gay culture in Tel Aviv for the same reason, and there are a surprising number of Charedim who live there.

    Further, these people will never parade through Ramallah (a significantly liberal Arab town) or even Arab cities and city sections in Israel because it is more important to avoid offending Arabs than to avoid offending other Jews.

    Also FYI, Christians have full equal rights in marriage in Israel. All marriage is divided up by religion, and any christian could marry here as long as their church certified it (and had a presence here). I don’t know why you thought it wasn’t allowed. Perhaps you mean the intermarriages for which people have to leave the country as there is no civil marriage here.

    Any 2 (or more) people can have a relationship, and there is no law to the contrary here. Marriage, however, is a very specific thing that only religions have any business legislating, not the government. This doesn’t legislate what some people call “love”, only a religious institution as it has always existed. If you want a gay marriage, best find another religion that certified such a thing.

  • Vagabond June 30, 2009, 4:33 PM

    s(b.), you’re completely wrong about “homosexuality being natural physics.” Till you can show that a gay male is born with a different gene than a heterosexual male don’t invent ideas to support your argument. Not cool. Sexual preference just as much as food preference is a matter of mental choice. Unfortunately, sometimes not by choice. As in cases were someone was abused or mentally tortured (which is sadly happening in many yeshivos.)
    And you’re wrong about Israel. It might be considered a democratic country. But the state of Israel was built on jewish (torah) guidelines. You will be surprised if you actually study Israeli law. Many laws are biblicaly influenced directly.

  • Vagabond June 30, 2009, 4:38 PM

    Well explained SF2K1 .

  • Phil June 30, 2009, 5:57 PM

    Gays should not be tolerated by the frum community, especially in Israel. According to the Torah (parshas Acharei Mos), it is ones of the sins that will cause Eretz Yisrael to vomit us out. Any arguments, go argue with God, original author of that statement.

    What I don’t get is how stupid some people and especially politicians can be. How is it that gays are not only tolerated but celebrated in these parades, when on the other hand, Joe Camel was banned and is illegal?

    Is it now better to smoke another dude’s sausage than a cigarette?

  • Anonymous June 30, 2009, 6:51 PM

    to fill: absolutely. cigarettes cause cancer. having a sexual relationship with another person (whatever their gender) is no harmful.

  • Sergeant J July 1, 2009, 6:56 AM

    Anonymous, it IS harmful to Phil, it makes him cry into his beer..

  • Phil July 1, 2009, 7:57 AM

    Anon,

    Gays are spiritually harmful to us, even more so than cigarettes and especially in Israel. Ask God why, he is the one who made the statement.

    This is a basic frum belief, expilicitly mentioned in the Torah. As this is frum web site catering to a frum audience, I think we can all relate to the Torah. If you believe in Shabbat and kosher, you should also believe that gays are transgressing a mortal sin.

    To have a group or flamboyant gays running around Yerushalayim advocating stupidity such as anon and sergeant gay, is an insult to Judaism and the Torah. If you guys prefer smoking man meat to Camels, keep it in your bedroom or bathroom.

    Joe Camel never hurt anyone. I never saw anyone smoke a billboard or T shirt. If cigarettes cause cancer, they should have banned cigarettes, not Joe Camel.

  • Hornball July 1, 2009, 11:14 AM

    I’m with Straight Man, heterosex ROCKS!

  • kissmei'mshomer July 1, 2009, 11:46 AM

    STRAIGHT MAN: I just don’t see the need to proclaim that they’re proud to engage in anal and oral sex. Whats next pride for practictitioners of beatiality and necrophillia? Let them all go back in their closets to practice their perversions.
    ——-

    Firstly, I don’t think they pride marches are necessarily a celebration of pride that one is gay as opposed to straight. They are calling attention to the fact that they exist, that they are not ashamed of their orientation, and would like equal rights and acceptance. Straight people are not discriminated against based on their orientation, so there is no need for a “straight pride” march.

    Secondly, you cannot compare homosexuality to necrophilia or bestiality. Homosexuality is not just about sex, just like heterosexuality is not just about sex. It is about the natural desire to have an intimate and close relationship with another human being. Most people would like that person to be of the opposite sex, but others do not for whatever reason. Necrophilia and bestiality are not about relationships with people but about sex, unless you argue that you can have a meaningful relationship with a dead person or an animal.

    Phil: I understand that you are very devoted to the Torah, and I respect that. However, you say we should not tolerate people whose lifestyles contradict the Torah. Should we not tolerate individuals who are not frum? Should the frum community not tolerate people who are not Shomer Shabbos? I know some people feel homosexuality is in its own class because it is called “toeva.” But does ahavat Yisrael not apply to practitioners of “toeva”? And is it not possible to tolerate people without approving of their lives? And what exactly do you mean when you say we should not “tolerate” them?

    Vagabond: I think the problem is that Israel often tries to bill itself as a democracy when it is not a completely democratic country, as you point out. If you would like the world to view you you as democratic, your laws should reflect this and you should tolerate things that you find offensive. If you want to be a religious government, go right ahead, but it is hypocritical to then expect the world to favor you over countries on the basis of being a democracy. Perhaps you can expect the world to favor you over other Middle Eastern countries for other reasons, but not on the basis of “democracy.”
    ———————–
    As far as pride marches in Jerusalem: Again, I think it comes down to the fact that it seems as though Israel can never completely decide whether they are a democracy committed to egalitarian ideals or a religious country. At this point they seem to me to be in a no-man’s land. I understand that many people in Jerusalem find pride marches offensive, but that is the cost of being part of a democracy: you will be offended by people who don’t believe in the same things that you do. You cannot expect a democracy to buy in to beliefs about certain actions being “spiritually harmful.”
    I also think that many people are offended by the march because they think that gays are only marching to rub in the Charedis’ faces, “see? we don’t keep the Torah!” However the march is not just about making people mad. It’s making a statement about civil rights and equality, that they are deserved even when among people who don’t agree with them.

  • Chris_B July 1, 2009, 12:40 PM

    I’m still not sure I understand where the borders between civil law and religious law are set on this. I cant argue that gays should be discriminated by civil law but hold completely with the religious law.

    As far as “pride parades” go, I never saw one in NYC, Dallas, Tokyo or anywhere else that did not include some flamboyancy in a way that made me sick to my stomach. Marches with dignity for the purposes of recognition under civil law is one thing. Fat hairy men in leather straps gyrating on a float to the Pet Shop Boys is another. As always for that stuff I say, “OK well where is MY parade for my particular sexual proclivity?”

  • Sergeant J July 1, 2009, 1:17 PM

    So if not hating gay people makes a person gay, does your 5 year old-like behavior make your wife a pedophile, Phil?
    Maybe one day, you ill grow up and realize that it’s not “gay” to disagree with your interpretation of things in this world… I won’t hold my breath waiting, though.

  • Puzzled July 1, 2009, 1:19 PM

    It seems to me that the Torah prohibition on homosexual acts is as clear as the prohibition on eating pork or lighting a fire on shabbos. Yet we do tolerate pork eaters and shabbos desecrators. I don’t see anything in the Torah that says that there is a difference whether in Israel or outside Israel, and I see no requirement in the Torah to deny civil rights. If we are doing so, then it makes sense that they would protest. If we had laws that pork eaters can’t vote, I’d expect to see pork pride parades.

  • Phil July 1, 2009, 1:59 PM

    Sergeant,

    OK, the pun was on the childish side. As for pedophiles, who is anyone to decide that an 18 year old is OK but a 17 year old will land you in jail?

    Once upon a time, old enough to bleed meant old enough to breed. Today, the upside down society we live in has decided that gays are in and teenagers are out. Yes, we all have to abide by these laws, doesn’t mean that we have to agree with them.

    In the long run, my/your personal opinion doesn’t affect the truth, which is the Torah way. If you feel that you or some queer politician are more righteous or knowledgeable than God, that’s your problem. I know better. Hopefully, most of the readers of this blog do too.

    BTW, I don’t hate gays, just hate them bragging about their perversions and trying to convince the rest of the world that they are normal, especially Jewish ones in Jerusalem. Still waiting for that chickenf**ckers parade.

    • But Rav said G-d wrote the Torah?? November 27, 2013, 10:40 AM

      So you being a pedophile is better than someone being gay? I don’t understand. Why follow the Torah’s guidelines which also say we should burn gays and others when it is obviously written by cavemen and completely inappropriate now?

  • s(b.) July 1, 2009, 3:24 PM

    Thanks for the clarification, re: Christians marrying Christians in Israel, sf2k1. If there are any civil benefits to marriage, I disagree with there being a religious requirement in order for a marriage to be civilly recognized.

    Vagabond, my doctor and I recently discussed this with me. Next time I see him, I’ll write down which part of the brain is different and get back to you. When it’s real, it’s neurological.

  • s(b.) July 1, 2009, 3:29 PM

    Phil, rhyme does not = intelligent or safe. And don’t knock it if you haven’t tried it (or maybe you have, I don’t know. Your smokage may vary).

  • Phil July 1, 2009, 7:54 PM

    Kissme,

    Forbidden relationships (incest, homo, bestiality) and idol worship are the specific sins that cause Jews to be driven out of Israel, Parsha Acharei Mos says so clearly.

    SB,

    I did smoke for 10 years or so, quit 7 years ago. I’m referring to cigarettes.

    • Phil is a throw back tool November 27, 2013, 10:42 AM

      And non Jews brought us back to Israel. Do you believe in talking donkeys too?

  • s(b.) July 2, 2009, 12:32 AM

    Congratulations; I hear it’s not an easy habit to kick. (I smoked some cigarettes in the 1990s [in high school and college], but they never appealed to me enough to make a habit out of them.)

  • jimmy37 July 2, 2009, 12:39 AM

    If you are asking about contradictions, I believe that consenting adults can do what they want to in their own four walls. But, I also believe that all non-heterosexual behavior is a personality disorder and should not be presented to the world as normal. This has nothing to do with religion or morality and has everything to do with perpetuation of the species.

    People that have bad eyesight get corrective lenses or operations to help them see. They don’t expect the world to triple the size of all print so they don’t have to do that. I expect sexual deviants to correct themselves, not the other way around.

  • Phil July 2, 2009, 8:04 AM

    SB,

    No it wasn’t easy, I guess it’s a matter of willpower and how fed up you get with smoking. Key is NEVER to bum one or have a drag, that’s a sure way to start again.

    Anyway, as evil as Joe Camel was, I still think he was a cool cartoon character. The fact that they banner him instead of cigarettes is truly ridiculous.

    As I and many others find gays (especially flamboyant ones) more offensive than smokers, and definitely more offensive than Joe Camel, I feel that these types of sick parades should be illegal, even more so in the holy city.

  • Anonymous July 2, 2009, 5:53 PM

    Phil: I am familiar with Acharei Mot. I am not quite sure how it answers my questions, though. Are you trying to say that we should not tolerate gays because Acharei Mot says that they’re the reason why we were spewed out of Israel? Or are you saying Acharei Mot is explaining why bestiality and homosexuality are similar?

    If it’s the latter, I can understand that bestiality and homosexuality are “similar” in the sense that they are both mentioned in this parsha and both are related to taboo forms of sex.
    But as I’ve said, they are very DIFFERENT in that homosexuality is not just about sex, but about developing a relationship with a human being, and is therefore much harder to expect a human being to “control” it. BTW, I am still curious as to your response to this point. I don’t believe you have addressed in any of your posts the fact that homosexuality is not just about sex but relationships.

    As for the teenage issue: Do you actually feel that two consenting adults of the same sex is WORSE than an adult being in a relationship with a teenager? Yes, the line between 17 and 18 is unclear. Yes, the Torah does not specifically forbid relationships with teenagers. But I don’t think that making statutory rape illegal and homosexuality legal is a sign of an “up-side-down” society. It’s a sign of a society that’s more concerned with a possibility of direct, observable harm and exploitation and less concerned about the possibility of a form of “spiritual harm” that is far more difficult to observe or believe in, especially if you do not believe in the Torah.

    Also, you say pride marches should be “illegal.” On what grounds? Should be abolish the separation between church and state?

  • Phil July 3, 2009, 11:02 AM

    Anon,

    I’l start by answering your last question first, as it will give you a better perspective of where I’m coming from.

    I (and frum Jews) believe in Torah as God given and the absolute truth.

    I believe Israel should be run by halachic rule only, as it will be in the time of Moshiach. To have secular courts in Israel that go against the Torah is an abomination.

    Now that we’ve established the grounds for how things should be, we can tackle your issues:

    The Torah doesn’t differentiate between these types of sins, except for the type of death penalty involved for perptrators that were witnessed and warned. If I remember correctly, gays were stoned, others strangled, etc.

    Following these rules, gays would be illegal, anyone transgressing would likely do so in hiding, and would definitely not be parading around in women’s clothing proclaiming their preferences.

    As to the relatioship aspect, King David loved Jonathan to the point where their love for each other was considered the epitome of love, and is used in Pirkei Avos as an example of lasting love. Obviously, there was no hanky panky going on there.

    The fact that gays might be “in love” or just out for a one night stand is irrelevant when it comes to halacha. Besides, who is anyone to judge which is better or worse? If anything, two men in a relationship is worse than a gay one nighter, because they plan their sins and repeat them often.

    If the Torah permits marriage between older and younger people, even under the age of bat mitzvah, who is anyone to dispute it?

    Many people of same age marriages get divorced, and many with wide age gaps stay married. What makes Americans that judge legal age as 21, more moral or higher than Canadians that use 18, or African countries where teenage parents are the norm?

    Once we throw out the norms defined in the Torah, what makes anything wrong?

    Should we now have parades for incest, bestiality, rape and masturbation as well? Once we’re at it, add parades for all categories of sinners, such as people who don’t keep Shabbat, respct their parents, thiefs and murderers.

    Bottom line is that gays wrongly think they should get some type of “special” treatment. While some societies accept them, the Torah doesn’t. So naturally, they become offensive to Torah observant Jews when trying to flaunt their deviant sins and lifestyle in the Holy Land.

    • Phil was at Sinai so he knows its true November 27, 2013, 10:43 AM

      Living under Torah law would be even more violent than shariah. Give it up and evolve out of the Bronze Age dude. You sound like a clown

  • Holy Hyrax July 6, 2009, 12:16 AM

    Democracy means you allow the right to congregate, ESPECIALLY if you don’t agree with the cause,….

    Step back even further. Democracy means not able to have a “Jewish” state.

  • kissmei'mshomer July 8, 2009, 11:39 AM

    The “anonymous” post that is 3 posts up is actually my post- I didn’t mean to post anonymously.

    Phil, thanks for your responses. I disagree with you on several points, including your assertion that (1) Israel should be ruled by the principles of halacha rather than democracy – when Mashiach is in charge, things can be different, but I do not see how we can impose the Torah on individuals (2) the fact that the Torah gives the death penalty for things like necrophilia, bestiality, and homosexuality means that they are all “equal” or that individuals who engage in such behaviors or morally equivalent and (3) the fact that the Torah does not forbid teen-adult relationships means that they are morally “okay,” particularly in a culture where teens are not expected to be fully developed emotionally and ready for adult life.

    Another random observation on the point related to assuming moral equivalency based on punishments prescribed in the Torah:

    -The Torah does not call rape an “abomination,” nor does it prescribe the death penality. However, I refuse to believe that Hashem thinks that gays are worse people than rapists.

    (I imagine that you will counter this argument by saying that no one advocates rape as an “alternative lifestyle.” That does not mean that rape is any “better,” just that society can more clearly understand the observable harm and detriment caused by rape.)

  • Phil July 8, 2009, 12:05 PM

    Kissme,

    Imposing Torah law is no harder than imposing the current laws. Obviously, you can’t enforce most laws such as the death penalty without a real beis din, but that doesn’t mean that it should be accepted.

    If we have no probelm sending tax evaders and drug dealers to jail, or giving fines for traffic violations, why not impose the same for people that break Torah rules?

    In regards to moral equivalence, why is a gay guy any better or worse than one who is incestous? In theory if a guy and his mom are willing, who is to say they are “sicker” than 2 men? For that purpose, who is to say that any hetero’s a morally better than gays?

    Simple answer: The Torah.

    As far as teens geting married, it really all depends on the society they live in. While it may not be advisable for 13 year old boys to marry 12 year old girls in 2009, it certanly isn’t halachically wrong. If a responsable 25 year old guy or even a 50 year old guy wants to marry a mature 15 year old girl, who’s to say that it’s morally wrong?

    Regarding rape in halacha, It’s one of those laws I simply don’t understand, you might want to check with a rabbi. I don’t see how the guys punishment of having to marry his victim helps the victim in any way. Why would she want to be stuck with her attacker?

    Aside from that, he does actually have to pay for certan things, such as emabarrassment, pain, doctor fees, etc, just as any other person that causes physical damage to another, as outlined in hilchos nezikin.

    As far as what “Hashem thinks”, now mortal can even begin to understand. The same question can be posed to every event, i.e. what was he thinking during the holocaust, or how one who desecrates Shabbos a worse punishment as a murderer, etc.

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