One of my most memorable moments from my half a year in Israel was when I incited a shabbos riot at the intersection of Bar Ilan and Shmuel Hanavi streets in Jerusalem. I really didn’t incite it, I just added fuel to the fire by egging the kids on, and telling them that if they were ever to compete with Chabad for kiruv they had got to be progressive and move on to main intersections rather than the middle of the street. After all, how were they to show the beauty of shabbos to cars if there weren’t any to throw rotten fruit at?
The recent violent protests staged by Charedim who are pissed about a municipal parking lot staying open on shabbos in Jerusalem got me thinking…
I have been hearing about the shabbos riots for years, but I only got to witness one full fledged riot, in fact, the riot became so bad that they began to focus their attention on some hot Sephardic girls that were showing too much arm and the crowd started chanting “whores” at them. It was really a great thing, honestly, yeh it made religious Jews look bad – but we cant discount the fun in it.
Shabbos riots or protests happen for a few reasons, the first reason is really because Charedim are bored and need something to do, just look at all the other groups that riot, unemployed poor folks looking for excuses to burn down their own neighborhoods, and throw stones at something. The only difference between the Charedim and everyone else, is that Charedim don’t use guns or bombs, they prefer dumpster fires and bleach.
But can we really judge Charedim by a few protests? Seriously I am trying to figure out if Charedim support these protests in general or they are merely protesting the fact that parking lots encourage women to drive and that is assur by all Charedi rule books?
I know that not all of the Charedim support violent protests against shabbos breakers, I am kind of surprised because based on comments I have received Charedim don’t even think irreligious Jews are really Jews and since they aren’t in the kiruv business I am really trying to figure out exactly why they care so much, shouldn’t they be learning or davening or making more babies instead?
A lot of people are saying that this doesn’t represent the majority of Charedim, that Charedim don’t feel this way and just want to live a life of kugel and streimels. But if this were the case, why have no Rabbis denounced their behavior during the last shabbos parking lot protest? Isn’t this kind of like in the Muslim world when none of the leaders denounce terrorism? Its not the same I realize but its still pretty bad and I think there’s another one coming up this week.
What are your thoughts on the Charedim staging violent protests on shabbos?
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{ 47 comments… read them below or add one }
what is this world coming to? jews hating jews.. i lived in israel for 3 years.. it was awful i felt like a goy .. they hang up black flags on israeli independence day.. scream shabbos at cars that come by… its awful.. but is it right to say anything? there not hurting anyone physically.. maybe they do just want attention and are bored… so if we give it to them.. are they going to stop? is anything going to get better if we stoop to their level?
Having attended many of those ke she garti baaretz
I noticed that all the yeshivah rebels always congregate on the side and stare at the hot sefardi girls who walk by. I attended the ones that protested Route 6 there was also a big one when the leftist politcal party (shinui) won too many seats that (according to degel hatorah ve ha pedophilia) degel should have won.
Another point of interest that Frumsatire missed in this article was the way the jerusalem police combats these chasidim. They first sent in female police, the chasidim responded by throwing carpets at them and pushing them to the side. The cops then tried using women who would rush into the crowd, the chasidim (this actually worked for a week or two) the chasidim devised a plan (true story) they caught all the cats in meah shearim and released them on the female police. This lead to the police using water cannons filled with food coloring or some other chemical that colored the protestors.
When they protested against kevish 6 they had an all out brawl, because the neighbors of some small 40 person moshav wanted the road to provide easy access to their houses.
So I’ve always had this question about shabbos riots that I never knew who to ask. It seems like some of the more violent activities – throwing things at cars and people, beating women, burning stuff – would seem to violate shabbos rules (or negia in the case of the beatings). But I’m just an ignorant secular Jew. How do they justify doing these things on shabbos? Or do I just have a misunderstanding of what you can’t do?
I always thought Americans in Israel should throw rocks at Charedim driving cars on the second day of yuntif
a question-
nope, you’re absolutely right. these Jews flagrantly violate all sorts of dioraita halachot, including being mechalel shabbat, hitting a fellow Jew, embarassing fellow jews, and destroying other people’s property, for the sake of…… keeping shabbat and tzniut and honoring the Torah. oh right! I forgot the one about making a chilul hashem.probably because I’m a female, and my rosh is filled with kalut. the actions of these people who call themselves Jews are not only sins of the highest magnitude, but they are flagrantly anti everything the Torah stands for. to be honest, I think comparing the Rabbis who don’t say anything to the Islamic leaders who silently condone terrorism is a fairly accurate representation; all it needs is for someone to lose their eye sight from bleach or acid to make it the same….
Instead of writing your concerns of how other jews act why don’t you focus on your own growth and dedication to G-d. It really pisses me off when I read the comments your “followers” write and they seem to focus around the theme of ” wow…I was thinking of becoming more religious…not anymore after seeing what jews are like.” I am not sure what seriously negative experience you had as a child with Judaism but you need to stop inciting anti- religious feeling on your site. I am not commending any of these behaviors that these people regarding the riots, but you seriously piss me off.
Bad Joke Time:
An American tourist was in Ge’ulah (or Me’ah She’arim, or B’nei B’rak, pick your Chareidi ‘hood). He went into a gift shop and asked if he could have something that represents their community. The guy in the shop gave him a bag of stones. He said “these are shabbos rocks. Before Shabbos, we set them aside for the purpose of throwing at cars that are driving through our neighborhood. As long as we aim properly and get them under a certain angle, it’s okay.”
The tourist then went into another gift shop and also asked them for something that represents their neighborhood. The shopkeeper gave him a bag full of bigger stones and gave him the same lecture about shabbos rocks. So the tourist asked the shopkeeper “how come your rocks are bigger than the rocks I picked up down the block?” The shopkeeper said “oh, we hold by the Chazzon Ish. His shiurim are bigger, so our rocks are allowed to be bigger.”
All joking aside, yes there are loopholes that allow this by the letter of the law, but as far as the spirit of the law is concerned, I think they need to set their priorities straight. Honestly, you can find a heter for just about anything if you look hard enough: premarital sex, getting high, murder, it’s not hard at all…
who cares-
i think frum satire was molested by a rabbi when he was a little boy…and hes pissed off that it turned him gay
Like you said, I think a lot of their protests begin because of boredom, and maybe a little bit of sincerety involved too. I was once passing by one of these riots and got caught up in the action, which resulted in the infamous yasaam (super cops) or “men in black” beating the crap out of me.
That was not a fun experience!
I agree with Miri. bjs, that’s way out of line. who cares, why not start a blog of your own and fill it with good news of kind acts performed by frum Jews? Inconsistencies and double-standards should be questioned; I learned that in yeshiva. No post here will send me otd, but learning about acts of kindness committed by the frum might attract me to that lifestyle more. There’s your ball; feel free to run with it, not just for me, but for all those out there who aren’t as observant as you might be.
Hannah:
What happened to the Rashi of Parshas Yisro? ‘Am echod b’leiv echod.’ Seriously, you’d think the biggest threat of Jewish survival is intermarriage (it’s at the top of the list, don’t get me wrong)
Why do people that object to this blog keep reading it? It’s beyond me. Goodness forbid anyone write about anything anymore. @who cares, why don’t YOU focus on your own growth and dedication to G-d instead of writing your concerns of how another jew acts.
It’s good that this behaviour be discussed and condemned. Protesting about Shabbat being desecrated by desecrating Shabbat is beyond stupid and I’m simply thankful that no person has been hurt.
Don’t like something and it’s not directly affecting you? Pay it no mind. My how easy and painless! Avoid the blog. Avoid the protest. Avoid causing more harm than good.
@ who cares, I don’t know if your comment was partially directed at me (the ignorant secular Jew), but fear of charedi shabbos rioters is not what is standing between me and frumkeit, so don’t worry so much!
I’ve just always wondered about that, and since I don’t know anyone frum, anytime I’ve wondered “how can they do that?” the person I’m asking just shrugs.
Thanks to everyone who answered my question. I like reading this blog, even though half the time I don’t even understand it, because it helps me learn something about a group of people I don’t know much about. And Heshy and some of the commenters have shown me that many frum people are not judgmental assholes, so I don’t think he’s driving anyone away. Maybe some of the not-so-nice commenters like yourself, but not Frum Satire.
They definitely break the laws, but here’s an funny footnote. This lady that got stoned by them ends up on Israeli radio talking about her ordeal. One of the things she can’t understand is how they throw rocks if they are muktza.
A guy calls in a tells her not to worry; all the rocks were designated as such before Shabbos (which would make it halachically permissible to touch them).
I was in Meah Shearim once, people treated me like a goy because I wasn’t dressed like them. Use to work for a satmar here, he was pretty much the same.
delia, whats the point in only reading stuff you agree with? im sure frumsatire appreciates the comments from those who disagree with him, he’s a critical thinker.
also.. as offthederech said elsewhere “Would you want your government, or the telephone company to be above criticism? …. why are you so afraid of allowing people to question?”
this is part of questionning – some agree, some disagree, and everyone gets to think.
“Another point of interest that Frumsatire missed in this article was the way the jerusalem police combats these chasidim. They first sent in female police, the chasidim responded by throwing carpets at them and pushing them to the side.”
The last time I saw Frum Satire live he talked about how this was his favorite part of the protest, it was pretty funny actually.
Shomer negiah is not being violated because the beatings are primarally done with old Lulavim and gartels – and the shulchan aruch says nothing of second hand shomer negiah rules.
Who cares: send me an email and I can forward you all of the fan mail from people who found my site helped them in their Jewish growth, the fact that there is a discussion and not everything is swept under the crock pot actually helps people, why don’t you open your mind and realize that some people may actually enjoy this and learn from it.
Girl Fan: Which show was that? I love doing that skit btw, and glad you liked it. I’m sure my July 5th show in Jerusalem would be interesting.
Their reasoning if you’re interested, which I just learned in the article, is that the combination of yerushalyim ih”k and chilul shabbos bfarhesia is too much for them to put up with. There’s no actual chilul shabbos being done by jews in this case by the way. It’s just that the holy city shouldn’t do anything to accommodate the mchelel shabbos by opening a parking lot for them. I guess I agree with them.
@chosid, and meanwhile there is such tension between the dati’im and chilonim in Israel, you could cut it with a knife. It’s not like here in America, where one could be not frum and still tolerate those who are. Many chilonim you speak to in Israel sincerely hope that if the Palestinians take over, they throw all the chareidim into the sea.
When I was in Israel, I had a Rabbi who was a son of Rav Aharon Soloveichik, let’s just say he was quite Rabinnic looking. When he first moved to Ramat Beit Shemesh, he found himself a nice apartment that he liked. The real estate broker, however, warned him that the apartment was in a chiloni neighborhood, and that they would not take kindly to his type in that neighborhood. The Rabbi didn’t understand what the problem was. He informed the broker that he grew up in South Chicago, where all of his neighbors were black, and he didn’t have a problem there. The broker, however, insisted “you don’t understand…they really don’t like Rabbis in their neighborhood, and they won’t take kindly to you.”
We can rationalize sin’as chinam all we want, but a rose called by any other name would still make me sneeze (my allergies). Until Jews learn to get along with other Jews, there will never be peace in Israel.
Shomer negiah is not being violated because the beatings are primarally done with old Lulavim and gartels
Not necessarily….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FswXr4g17JU
laughing at secondhand shomer negiah. were these carpets rolled up, or were they held up like shields? I hear the stray cats aren’t so nice, over there.
You should stage a counter riot in which you throw puppies and ice cream at the “hard haredi”. They will be to busy eating the ice cream and “awing” at the puppies to remember what they were there for.
Since these schmucks insist on acting like terrorists let them be treated like terrorists. Instead of leaving the batons and rubber bulets behind the police and military should treat them like they would treat a pack of Hamas rioters. Since the Charedim are physical cowards and completely inept at physical violence it would be over quickly.
Girl Fan/Frumsatire – I wish one of the shows were in Philly, my job doenst really give me a lot of time to get out of the city of brotherly love.
Frumsatire – Were you in Israel around the time where the secular women who worked for the israeli ministry of education would walk through meah shearim and get spit on by the reb ahralach? (Protip: The fastest way to get to the ministry of education is to go through meah shearim)
30 people out of 10,000 were violent. You’re right they shouldn’t be but don’t buy the media bias against the charedim that they were all violent. It’s very difficult to control crowds and it’s almost inevitable there will be troublemakers.
How come there was no protesting when this womans child was taken away by the chasidishe mamzarim behamas http://nymag.com/news/features/48532/
Chosid – Sometimes it is easy to forget about Derech Eretz Kadma La Torah, If the Rabbis themselves were out on the street protesting for the kedusha of the yerushalayim eir hakodesh I would side with the chareidim. BUT since it is only a few people who think/dont agree with secualar people who choose the own way of life/despise the derech that chilonim choose, they will say anything to get people riled up. I remember after one of these riots one of the rabbi’s came out and said that if he knew what a chilul hashem/tznius issues this protest caused he would have commanded his hasidim to stand down and spend the day saying tehilim in the shtieble or learning some gemorah. I am the only one who noticed that the yeshivish community in israel is completely invisible as these protests.
PROTIP: Violence doesn’t get you anywhere except jail (I don’t know if they teach this in meah shearim) the 30 people out of 10,000 must be part of the chosid shoteh movement in meah shearim/boro park/kiryat joel/new square/kiryat sefer/ anywhere else where chardim
Ben Shalom, aren’t all chareidim afraid of animals? Even week old puppies and kittens. Saw it with my own eyes.
The police should put on shtraimels and payos and see what happens. Either that or just throw cholov stam milk at the protesters, that should clear them out in under a minute.
This should shed some light on this topic
http://www.vosizneias.com/33272/2009/06/11/mea-shearim-israel-a-man-with-power-that-runs-the-network-to-galvanize-charedi-protests/
All I want to really know is if you folks thought this post was funny or not. Yes I meant it to be both – but my ego needs some boost.
Frum Satire – I will admit me and my group of friends enjoy your website due to the openness of the forums (and the debates that go on between some of the commenters) But your semi-liberal perspective of Frumkeit is what keeps me wearing my kippah in an office filled with people who have last names like McAfferty, DiBello etc. (I despise some of the practices of both jews and non jews, but with jews i can relate to based on my yeshivah rebel experiences).
I think you do an excellent job with the articles and I hope to see you in one of your performances in Philadelphia
Mr. Satire: No matter what the subject you interject something about women. At your age it’s time you get married so that you’ll stop thinking about women all the time
The post was very funny!! As they all are! To Frima M. … You are fooling yourself..I can tell you that marriage only makes a man (most not all) think about women more…… none of whom are his wife ! The constant barrage of unsolicited advances from married men is EXHAUSTING!….. frum, secular, bt ,otd ,converts ..you name it ……all they talk about is how they aren’t getting laid or getting a bj or both… No matter what the setting is the married men are animals compared to anything a single guy could come up with especially since a single guy doesnt have plan and scheme on how he will relentlessly chase a single girl without being discovered…. That being said NONE of this applies to the married men on this blog….. Nor to the husbands of the married women.. They are a cut above.
The VIN article is interesting. I was surprised to find about a 50-50 split on the comments, I’d expected to see most in favor.
these riots are a disgrace! israeli police should use water cannons and rubber bullets next time they riot.
Just a thought for the organizers of these riots.
I once heard that someone in India organized a ’silent protest’ or something to that effect. Basically, thousands of people just stood there quietly. I think if the frum people would just stand in the proposed parking lot area quietly not letting the tractors etc. in, it may be more effective than violence which will certainly backfire.
Around 10 years ago a missionary church offered 100$ to anyone who converted. The date was set for shabbos, and tv, radio etc. were notified. Everyone thought there’d be a chillul hashem, but many members the community just gathered around the building silently and spoke with the Jews (mostly russians) who tried to enter. No one entered, and it was such a kiddush hashem. Also, the church gave up after just 3 weeks of this taking place.
jewhaters… every last one of you. Although i must say you are having an extremely intellectual discusion. Why don’t you waste your time bashing another religion? I’m not sure why you are all so anti-Jewsish, but if you hate it so much go start your own relgion. At the very least we wont have to hear and be subjected to the shit that comes out of your self-hating lips.
I saw the VIN article, too. The guy who organizes these riots has ELEVEN kids. Methinks he should stay home and spend time with his kids instead of spending his time lighting fires in a parking lot on Shabbos. Don’t those boys want to learn gemara with tati?
Christian Jew Admirer, what exactly is your complaint? Are you honestly saying that Jews are wrong to criticize Jews who – supposedly in the name of their religion – engage in violent behavior, towards both Jews and non-Jews?
@Puzzled, please, that’s no Christian writer. I’ve had my share of discussions with Christians, and from the sound of him, I’d say he’s a poorly disguised LakewoodMachmir type.
Why don’t we go bashing other religions? BECAUSE THAT’S NOT THE SCOPE OF THIS POST! I could anybody here’s ears off about my problems with any organized religion in this world, but having been raised a Jew, I’m most informed about Judaism, and thus my critiques on Judaism are helluva lot more credible than anything I’ve got to say about any other religion in the world.
And trust me on this, if he truly were Christian, he would not suggest we start our own religion, but rather that we accept the salvation of Yeshua. Every time I’ve discussed this subject wih Christians (including my arguments against organized religion to begin with), it’s always come down to “why don’t you give Yeshua a chance?” Seriously, my friend, if you’re a Christian, then I’m Chuck Norris.
I concede with Puzzled. I am openly critical of the violent protests, but that doesn’t mean I hate them. If there is a God, I don’t think this is how he wants us behaving. Remember, Elijah the Prophet was even punished for being such a zealot for God’s name; much of the story of Elijah is about God TRYING to teach Elijah compassion.
So, Christian Admirer (if that be thy name), if you were to come across a group of Christians who were violently demonstrating in the name of their church, and you were to denounce them, would that make you a self-hating Christian? Let’s not judge take a forest for a tree; just because we don’t like the way a certain group vocalizes their beliefs, doesn’t mean we hate them. I am a non-practicing Jew, but much of my family is very observant: I even have relatives who are Chareidi and Chassidic, and I still love them, even if I wouldn’t subscribe to ther specific beliefs. And the best part is that if ever I wanted, I’d probably still be welcome to spend Shabbos with them, even though they don’t approve of my current lifestyle as well.
Last thought: Seriously, as far as Jewish comedy goes, this blog is pretty tame in the Jew-hating department. Christian Hater, I suggest you go watch yourself some Jerry Seinfeld, Larry David, Lenny Bruce, Woody Allen, and Mel Brooks, and tell me if any given reader on this blog “hates Jews” any more than those comedians. If you want, I will even personally e-mail you some links to stuff of theirs that’s quite anti-Jewish. Here’s a taster. Larry David was once called a self-hating Jew for liking Wagner. His response: “yeah, I hate myself, but that has nothing to do with the fact that I’m Jewish.” Or the time he was about to hang a mezuzah on his front door because his father was visiting, he explained to his Hispanic gardner “this is a mezuzah. We put them on our doors so anti-Semites can know where we live.” There’s plenty more.
I couldn’t tell you whether the greater charedi communities in israel secretly support nor denounce the riots, I can only give my $.02
When I was in Israel, I spent 2 years in a yeshivah down the block from Kikar Shabat, the busiest intersection in Geulah/Meia Shaarim
Whenever they would protest, and I was fortunate to see a few, generally it was only kids and young adults. Quite a few times, I actually saw the “elders” come out to rebuke the “rioters” and try to send them back home. Left me believing what it seems you do : that generally its people with nothing better to do finally getting a chance of excitement in their terribly boring lives.
Nevertheless, and unrelated, there riots suck. Sure, tons of big dumpster fires and yelling, but pathetic. Whenever there was even a possibilty of a cop coming into the area, they all fled, super fast. Now I’m not going to say to stay there to get beaten is a smart move, and I would run myself, but the best of American riots you can find on you tube generally have a few brave/stupid souls remain only to get beaten by the cops. Thats the entertainment.
DAVID LETTERMAN’S HATE, ETC. !
David Letterman’s hate is as old as some ancient Hebrew prophets.
Speaking of anti-Semitism, it’s Jerry Falwell and other fundy leaders who’ve gleefully predicted that in the future EVERY nation will be against Israel (an international first?) and that TWO-THIRDS of all Jews will be killed, right?
Wrong! It’s the ancient Hebrew prophet Zechariah who predicted all this in the 13th and 14th chapters of his book! The last prophet, Malachi, explains the reason for this future Holocaust that’ll outdo even Hitler’s by stating that “Judah hath dealt treacherously” and “the Lord will cut off the man that doeth this” and asks “Why do we deal treacherously every man against his brother?”
Haven’t evangelicals generally been the best friends of Israel and persons perceived to be Jewish? Then please explain the recent filthy, hate-filled, back-stabbing tirades by David Letterman (and Sandra Bernhard and Kathy Griffin) against a leading evangelical named Sarah Palin, and explain why most Jewish leaders have seemingly condoned Palin’s continuing “crucifixion”!
While David, Sandra, and Kathy are tragically turning comedy into tragedy, they are also helping to speed up and fulfill the Final Holocaust a la Zechariah and Malachi, thus helping to make the Bible even more believable!
(For even more stunning information, visit MSN and type in “Separation of Raunch and State” and “Bible Verses Obama Avoids.”)
Let me get this straight. David Letterman is an anti semite because of his jokes regarding Sarah Palins daughter, because Sarah Palin is an evangelical christian?
Besides, last time I did my Christian HW, Arent Evangelicals the ones who are “friends” with Israel? And by friends, I mean the ones who believe that without our conversion to Christianity, Jesus Christ cannot return for the final redemption. Those are the “friends” of Jews you are refering to?
On another note, Lettermans jokes were about her daughter, and I dont know too much but Im pretty sure she hasnt endorsed her mommys religious beliefs .
Seth W: Their riots suck because there are no crazy women taking their shirts off and putting flowers into gun barrels, hippie riots are the best. Charedi riots are great when its a long shabbos afternoon and watching girls at the rova gets old.
AJEW IN SHABBOS IS ONE IF YOU DONT KEAP SHABBOS YOU DONT UNDERSTAND THE FIGHT ONLY WHITH MESURAS NEFESH VE WILL VEEN ITS NOT VE ITS SHABBOS OUR FLAG “SHABBOS”
Anyone care to translate that into English?