I am posting this video so you see how dumb you racist bastards sound when you tell me Obama should be shot or that he’s a Muslim. I understand the pain that people are going through – but the ignorance that pervades the frum Jewish community is disgusting and finally you can see for yourself. This video is not really that shocking at all, fact is most of the frum people I know are exactly like this, but the fact that the world will see it is quite disturbing.
There is a lot of foul language so I warned you:
For the record, I am not saying I am a fan of the man – but this is exactly how Aryans and racists and Jew haters sound and I hear all of this talk at shul and at shabbos tables across the land.
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Does anyone have an answer for me?
As I stated in my first post, none of the comments being made in the video shocked me. They were what I hear coming out of the mouths of orthodox jews in my community on a regular basis.
Why should I wish to belong to such a vile group of people who comfortably say such things out loud? The non-jews and non-religious jews I know and interact with seem to be such better people overall.
I know I can’t forget who I am. I’m just so disheartened to see such filth spewing from the lips of young jews. I hope there are rabbis, teachers, leaders, and persons of conscience who watch that video and stand against it, that the heart and soul of this segment of klal yisrael not be lost.
I’m a black Jew, frum from birth, I have to deal wit this kind of racist shit on a daily basis whether it was in school or shul. It is NOT a chilul hashem to post this video, but instead a chilul hashem to ignore this situation that I and my family, and other black jewish families orjust plain jews of color have to deal wit.
i want a better world for my children to growup and the frum community needs to deal wit their bigotry. and NO it is not a random thing, it is quite frequent. and thewhole “cursed cham” ideology doesnt help either
good for u ,frum satire,and shame on all of u who oppose the posting of this video
Hold on. Am I supposed to fight now with Homey, or what?
(Homey: your name sucks. And you don’t have a blog. You suck.)
Eyekanspel,
Good advice, I agree wholeheartedly. That’s why I’m gonna back off.
FFB blackjewish girl,
That must be tough, I hope you continue having the strength to cope.
Jacob: Just do your own thing – or move to a more liberal community
Jacob – Does anyone have an answer for me?
As I stated in my first post, none of the comments being made in the video shocked me. They were what I hear coming out of the mouths of orthodox jews in my community on a regular basis.
If you hear such disgusting stuff in your community on a regular basis, then you are definitely living in the wrong community.
Why should I wish to belong to such a vile group of people who comfortably say such things out loud?
You shouldn’t!!! If I lived with such a group of people, I would do my utmost to move away from there as soon as possible.
The non-jews and non-religious jews I know and interact with seem to be such better people overall.
Seem? Have you ever seen them in a less inhibited state, perhaps drunk or otherwise impaired, with goading friends/media around them?
I know I can’t forget who I am. I’m just so disheartened to see such filth spewing from the lips of young Jews. I hope there are rabbis, teachers, leaders, and persons of conscience who watch that video and stand against it, that the heart and soul of this segment of klal yisrael not be lost.
So far, I have seen nobody standing with these people or these comments. I think there is universal disdain and disapproval.
Mark,
I take issue with your last statement of, “So far, I have seen nobody standing with these people or these comments. I think there is universal disdain and disapproval.”
I totally agree with the last comment made on the video, and so far no one seems to agree with me. They’re all concentrating on everything before (something about Obama).
Hornball,
I think most us guys and even the lesbians are with you.
Mark: That is such BS.
>If I lived with such a group of people, I would do my utmost to move away from there as soon as possible.
Why do you have to always blame the victim? Why is the responsiblity on the victim to move from a community like that, and not on the community to change? And more important, why are we so uncomfortable discussing the problem itself?
>So far, I have seen nobody standing with these people or these comments. I think there is universal disdain and disapproval.
Absolutely ridiculous. There has been very little condemnation. Not many have agreed with the sentiments expressed in the video (although quite a few have, even on this blog), but very few people have condemned it. Further, people like Frum Satire say things like, “I hear all of this talk at shul and at shabbos tables across the land” and I don’t see anyone addressing that. Actually, it’s a problem that’s almost never talked about in general. If not for this video (of kids getting caught on camera saying racist things), we probably wouldn’t be having this discussion. Is it a problem we don’t like to talk about, or just a fluke, that some kids said dumb things on camera? You decide.
Anyway, I don’t think a single FFB was shocked by the statements on the camera. Sure, they may have been pissed that the kids said these things, and made them all look bad, and they may have been frustrated that the kids didn’t keep their mouths shut, but I don’t think a single one of them is shocked about the statements they made on camera. I know what they said was *nothing* compared to what I’ve heard some rebbeim in yeshiva say.
((jacob)), take the good parts with you and double your efforts to not be like the behavior that disgusts you. Lead by positive example, and speak up when you see things that aren’t right. It’s a hard battle, one day at a time, but it’s worth it.
Aliza, thank you. BFFB, I’m sorry you run into such ignorance and unkindness. It’s reprehensible, and there’s no excuse for it. Hornball, I haven’t commented on your favorite part of the video because I am attracted to men, not women (and not guys whose comments are all one-trick ponies about how horny they are).
OTD, it is the responsibility of the community to make this change; if you have some ideas on how to implement it, I’d love to hear them. The filth spewed from some of those kids’ mouths is stuff I don’t understand how people can’t condemn. “White power?” Please! Take that kid to a Klan meeting and teach him how white he isn’t. Racial discrimination is NOT acceptable, and neither is sinas chinam. These people need re-education, hardcore. It will not be easy to undo years of hearing racial slurs tossed around like they’re not arrows of hate. From the bottom up (kids to rebbes/parents) or from the top down (vice versa), this change is long overdue. The time to begin was years ago; let’s go.
offthederech, i realize you may have been taught differently, but there is more than one type of frum community. im not denying that you`ve witnessed racism or that it exists in some communities, but not in all of them .
as for leaving the community if you disagree with it, that has nothing to do with being a victim. its a choice. if you dont like the way a certain community thinks or behaves,you can either try to change it or you can leave it. that`s a person`s freedom. i dont have to leave torah just because i hate the behaviors or attitudes of some `torah observant`people. i just need to find a community that fits with my views.
Mookie:
>im not denying that you`ve witnessed racism or that it exists in some communities, but not in all of them .
How do I know it doesn’t exist in some communities? The communities in which it exists don’t exactly go around advertising it, and I imagine, neither do the communities in which it doesn’t exist.
>if you dont like the way a certain community thinks or behaves,you can either try to change it or you can leave it.
Distancing yourself from a harmful environment, in this case a racist community, is always a good idea. I don’t disagree. But does that have to be all you do? (And about changing – how exactly do you go about changing it?) Let’s say it’s not just a community that holds these views, but your siblings. Now what?
>that`s a person`s freedom.
I didn’t know we had freedom to come or go. In my experience, people who leave get called Nazis. (Nothing personal, I’m just still pissed about the whole Garnel thing.)
>i dont have to leave torah
You don’t. But it’s highly recommended. (:
otd, let go of the Garnel shit; it’s getting in the way of your ability to have rational conversations. sticks and stones, man. if I call you a smurf, will that help?
seriously. And part apology, ’cause I’m not aware of exactly what went down between the two of you, I just see the results of it getting in your way, here. I don’t know about siblings. I know about a (different close relative). I worked on that (dcr) slowly and steadily, calmly and rationally; eventually my hard work paid off. Having the support of other relatives on the particular topic definitely helped. In my experience, change happens one person at a time, starting with oneself. ymmv.
I am a bit disappointed in a number of posters here. Despite the title of the thread, the Youtube video is obviously not about racism. It is about a couple of anti-Jewish people with a video camera asking a bunch of drunk adolescents about Obama’s latest pronouncements, getting a lot of answers, and then choosing to include a couple of racist remarks in their edited video. The motivations of the videographers have been discussed here and on the other thread, but what is interesting (and disappointing) to me is that an interview about reactions to Obama’s anti-Israel remarks has been turned into a discussion of racism by a bunch of Jews who should know better. Even the edited video contains only two or three racist comments, and they were all made by drunks. Where is the discussion of B. Hussein Obama? Where is the discussion of his remarks? Where is the discussion of the “two-state” solution which has produced strife since 1948?
A bunch of Jews arguing about so-called Jewish racism when that isn’t even the subject of an anti-Jewish video produced by our enemies! They don’t need to sabotage us – we do it ourselves.
Feh!
Observer, of we are “sabotaging” ourselves, it’s by allowing children to grow up in environs where racism is so acceptable, that even the semi-conscious “drunk” mind has it.
Observer,
Feh all you want but your attempt to distract from this shame fails. The video may be edited for effect, but it sure doesnt look like the racist garbage coming out of those childrens mouths was created with CGI or fancy cutting. If its so easy to show the world the sons and daughters of Abraham’s disgraceful behavior, how can we be any kind of example to the world?
Observer, you immediately lose all credibility in a thoughtful discussion as soon as you refer to the president as “B. Hussein Obama”. But that’s your choice.
As for those who sought to address my question, thank you. I don’t believe in moving away as a means of solving the problem, I was thinking maybe I just needed to stop seeing myself as an orthodox jew, partly as a means of protest, partly out of sheer disgust. But I think some of you have it right – I need to stick it out, stand up, and just be myself.
Thanks for the therapy
We, as a people, can’t allow the Israeli situation to turn us into monsters, or we become no better than those who oppressed us for centuries. That is why this video is important. Its time to look in the mirror and see what can become of our children.
“Jacob // Jun 15, 2009 at 9:17 pm
Observer, you immediately lose all credibility in a thoughtful discussion as soon as you refer to the president as “B. Hussein Obama”. But that’s your choice.”
Actually, Jake, what you’re trying to say is that YOU stop giving me credence as soon as I refer to BHO that way. Whatever your particular brand of idiocy (and I suspect that it is terminal PC), your failure to take BHO’s background, including his Muslim background, into account marks you as having a delusional outlook. Sorry about that. I’m sure you have some good qualities, as well, but you limit your potential by your blind spots.
Best wishes for straightening out your head.
Relevant link:
http://www.rantrave.com/Rant/The-Ugly-Sick-Racist-Video-of-Jews.aspx
“Observer”,
Ha! That was quite funny. Actually I meant exactly what I said, although I nevertheless appreciate your attempt to clarify what it was you thought I was “trying to say.”
But since my wording was somehow unclear to you, I’ll try and clarify. The key words I was using which you may have overlooked were “thoughtful discussion.” Credible participants in such an exchange would make straightforward claims based on fact about an individual under discussion rather than using uncustomary forms of their names (such as a first initial and then a full middle name) as a means of trying to establish some sort of link between them and, say, a religion they do not practice.
Hope that helps!
But one more word of advice. For the future, you may wish to be less presumptuous of those you wish to debate. It was also wrong for you to assume I haven’t taken Obama’s background into account. I actually happen to believe that any exposure Obama may have had as a child to other religions aside from Christianity a positive thing for one who hopes to change the course of our country’s relationship with the rest of the world. I’m truly sorry if I ever gave you the impression I thought otherwise.
Thank you for your kind words in which you state I must have “some good qualities” and your best wishes. That was sooo sweet of you … really! But if you meant to imply I’m somehow confused, I can assure you I’m not.
All the best,
“Jake”
what a complete chillul Hashem. Thanks for posting this and I am thoroughly disgusted at the way some of the other commentors are either minimizing their behavior, making excuses for it, or even endorsing it! How can you even bring yourselves to look in a mirror and face such a callous, soulless human being every day?
Actually, Yankel, you ARE confused, probably more so than most of the selected characters in the video. And they, at least, have the excuses of being both adolescent and drunk. But, as young as they are, they at least have a properly-functioning IFF, which you appear to lack. Perhaps I am mistaken about your lacking one. I certainly hope so.
Rishona,
I am not minimizing the words of the selected interviewed – I am leaving them in their proper perspective, and trying to help others gain that perspective. As for their behavior, I don’t see much – they seem to be peaceful drunks, which is better than the other kind, but still not good.
Some posters here seem to focus on a few racist remarks, and that is a mistake, period. I believe that in many (most?) cases, that misplaced focus assists in revealing other problems with the outlook of the individual who can’t see anything but racism when more important things are going on. I’m sure you are going apeshit to hear me say that there are more important things than apparently racist remarks by a couple of drunk adolescents, but the fact remains that there are. Why don’t you figure out a few, and list them for yourself? If you have no ideas, try watching the video again. The drunk kids mention one or two. Maybe ALL the sob sisters among the other posters here should try that exercise.
Discuss among yourselves.
Observer,
Unfortunately I feel that you unduly stereotyped my views. I will be the first person to say that being a racist is not a crime. I feel that the KKK, the Neo-Nazis, and the like have the right to believe what they believe and be proud about it. Mostly because if they get their rights infringed on because of their views, than I can get my rights infringed on for my, non-WASPy views. But these young adults are not the KKK, or Neo-Nazis. They are Jews. Jews who are obviously proud of their heritage, proud of Israel, and not ashamed to voice this. Sadly, they also are not ashamed of the example they are showing on behalf of their people. It has gone completely over their heads the sufferings of their forefathers and what it really means to be a G-d fearing Yid. It’s not even about being religious vs. being non-religious. All Jews have to think about who they are, and should feel compelled to take the higher ground. If you don’t agree with your political leaders; fine. You do not have to. But you DO need to make some sort of small effort to recognize the humanity in others, especially since for thousands of years, the Jews have been seen as less than human themselves.
As a Black person, I can understand trying to minimalize the gravity of this video. Every time Rev. Wright comes out in the news, I roll my eyes and think “Who cares? He doesn’t speak for Black Americans.” And he doesn’t. But try telling that to many Jews. Many truly feel that Black people sit at home, disparinging Jews, and plotting attacks on them (oh no, if you see one on the street…run, Forrest, RUN!). So I know better. Don’t think for a second, that it doesn’t work the other way around (and there are a LOT more non-Jews in America than there are Black people).
Hmm, Rishona, I would not have asked here, but why is there no way to register for your site to make comments, if you can’t leave them as a guest?
Oh, and after all this time, it’s still confusing to me why “they were drunk”, “it’s not a big deal” and “but they had a few good points” are seriously being used to defend this. I bet that there were a few pages of Mein Kampf with some good points about things, but I’m not defending that asshole either.
Before Phil misreads my comments (as usual) accuses me of calling these drunk morons Nazis, all I’m trying to say is that “good points” do not excuse racism, full stop.
I’m sorry, can someone clarify what an “IFF” is for me, since I’ve now been told I apparently lack one?
sergeantJ -
Go to the left hand side of the screen where it says “create an account”. That is how you register.
Rishona,
I do not disagree with you at all in any beliefs that you have expressed in your last post. I have been tempted to make some comments on “frum” racism on this thread, and I certainly have seen it in Crown Heights on at least one of the times I visited there. I will not repeat all of your points – you make them well and I agree with them. However, I still feel that on THIS video, an interviewer (who turns out to be hostile) asks questions about Obama’s recent anti-Israel speech, and gets a reasonable number of anti-Obama remarks, two or three of which are racist. The REMARKS are racist. Under the circumstances, I wouldn’t even be sure that the individuals making the remarks are racists, although I wouldn’t blame anyone for presuming so. Surely you have at least once heard a Black person refer to a legitimately-recognized White enemy by his race, even though you knew that that particular Black person was not generally anti-White. You have probably also heard both reasonable and unreasonable blanket descriptions of White people, knowing that even the reasonable ones didn’t apply to everyone.
But my problem with this thread is not the correctness of the concepts being discussed, but rather that we have been suckered into letting this video be a discussion of racism. The interview asked about Obama’s speech, and we end up beating ourselves to death about racism. Even with anti-Israel editing, the video still had only a couple of racist remarks. RACISM IS NOT WHAT THE VIDEO WAS ABOUT, AND ANYONE WHO MAKES IT THAT TELLS MORE ABOUT HIMSELF THAN ABOUT THOSE KIDS.
Jacob,
IFF is a radio-based system used primarily or only with airplanes for the purpose of Identification: Friend or Foe.
I am not a racist. I disagree with almost every one of the President’s policies. Truth be told, I heard around 4-5 racist comments on the video – the remainder of the remarks being comments about his political actions – bailouts, gun regulations, and so on. What can be more racist, though, than presuming that disagreement with Obama is racist? We did not accuse those who disagreed with Bush, Clinton, or Reagan of being racist/self-hating-whites (depending on their skin color.)
In 2000, I was campus coordinator for a remarkably unpopular African-American candidate in the primaries. In all our campaign literature, not once did we or any of our supporters make the absurd suggestion that opposing our candidate was racist.
Letting disagreement with the President become politically incorrect or racist is the recipe for tyranny. The Republicans tried the same thing by saying that disagreeing with Bush was treason. What happened to change?
To “Puzzled,”
Nobody I’m aware of has made a comment in this thread that equates disagreeing with Obama to racism. If I can speak for a moment on behalf of those of us outraged, the problems we all seem to have are specifically with the racist comments to which you referred.
To “Observer,”
Are you saying I might be a “foe” to the jewish people because I don’t think Obama is a muslim?
Please clarify. Thanks, “Yankel”
Disagreeing with the president should never be a crime. Calling him a “Stupid N**ger”, or (even in jest) screaming “WHITE POWER!!!” however, would set off any sane person’s IFF. Guess observer picked his u third hand from the boneyard (A place in AZ where the military stores hundreds of older, unused aircraft for spare parts, or possible regeneration and reuse as drones or for foreign sales)…
For me, putting up with racism would be like going to war knowing that the guys that are supposed to have my back are going to aim for it as soon as I move forward.
“To “Observer,”
Are you saying I might be a “foe” to the jewish people because I don’t think Obama is a muslim?
Please clarify. Thanks, “Yankel””
Yankel,
Not at all. I am saying that you seem to have an impaired ability to distinguish our friends from our foes.
Obs
Thanks Sergeant.
I acknowledged that there were a few racist comments on the video. I agree that racism is not a good thing. My concern is that someone might consider all the comments on the video to be bad and vile and things that shouldn’t be said, rather than just the racist comments. (Of course, I also would disagree with anyone who wants to ban hate speech like this, but I haven’t seen that suggested here.)
who cares?
boys will be boys..
and thus some will be obnoxious idiots who enjoy saying whatever they shouldn’t say…
Someone with the handle “not jewish” makes a perfectly sane post, one of the better ones in this thread.
Is there some logical connection between handle and content?
hmmm, I know…when I am driving poorly in my car that when I do something stupid like perhaps, forget to use my right turn signal – that I will be given the finger as being a dumb female driver. Now I am not always a poor driver but sometimes, I do get a little stupid. Do I think the person giving me the finger is a woman hater??? No…just that it is the easiest thing to categorize me as. Same with Obama…. am I a racist for disliking his policies??? Well, according to the media anyone who doesn’t agree with him is… but to me, he is just culturally muslim and governmentally fascist who surrounds himself with communists and terrorists. Nothing to do with his color at all… but it just highlights that he doesn’t share the same values as the center right country he supposedly represents. Woe be to the Jews… and Gd have mercy on those who voted for him… we are becoming the scapegoats again because of Geintner and Rahm and Summers and the other known jews on his administration. the anger is now on Rahm and his kooky brother. they are becoming the face of jews and that is dangerous as orthodox jews do not support obama’s agenda.
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