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Tefillin dates are good

Tefillin dates take place when an orthodox guy goes on a date expecting to sleep over and therefore he brings his tefillin, hence the name tefillin date, and I think this is a good thing. I know I will get some flack fo my controversial views but after stating my point of view to several friends they were able to see the good in tefillin dates.

I don’t mean by the title of the post that tefillin dates are fun, which I am sure they are, I am actually trying to prove that tefillin dates are good because the guy is still thinking of God, even when their immediate thoughts are of sex. Tefillin dates are almost a living poof of the right wing movement of orthodoxy, because when I was in high school this would never have been thought of. You go out, sleep over and don’t daven in the morning. But now people can compartmentalize enough to put sins into one category and mitzvahs into another.

Based on my chassidus learnings the yetzer harah tries to get you to sin and tries to get you down on your sinning to the point that you are similar to people who give up on diets because they broke it once. To me tefillin dates are the same thing, you know you are going to commit a sin, but you also know you are not going to miss davening with tefillin.

Am I completely off my rocker or are tefillin dates a good thing?

{ 145 comments… add one }
  • Tuvia March 26, 2009, 8:20 AM

    That is hilarious!!!!!

    I do agree that it is a good thing though. To me if you do not let everything else affect your daily prayer, or whatever you do Jewishly as part of your normal day, than its a good thing.

  • CA March 26, 2009, 8:26 AM

    TRS likes to tell a story about a bochur who came to the Berdichever Rebbe and asked for a kappora for sleeping with a girl. He explained that even though they sinned, they made sure to lessen the blow she went to mikveh first.

    The Berdichever said: I cannot give you a kappora. If you sinned on a whim of a moment, that would be one thing. You struggled with your y”h, and it prevailed. Nu, it happens. But here you actually made a whole plan of how to sin.

    Its the same as being really hungry and eating some cholov akum. Nu. So, you are a rasha, but at least there is an excuse: your y”h jumped out at you catching you unprepared. Another thing is making a two-hour trip with your friends to go to a particular restaurant. Much more treif.

    I think the fact that the guy is still thinking about G-d is worse. This way he has an excuse: well, yeah, I am sinning, but I am still thinking about G-d (look, I even brought my tefillin), so I am not so bad. Its like calling your mother once in a while. (Or Russian holiday of 8th of March, on which men buy their wives flowers, make breakfast and vacuum-clean the apartment, and then next day go on treating the wife as shit.)

    This is actually whats wrong with Reform and Conservative movements. It would be better for a person to be an atheist than a Reform Jew. In the second case, he is like a bulimic girl who drinks a lot of water to fill her stomach and satisfy the hunger he dulls the feeling that he is far away from G-d.

    • Moshe October 11, 2013, 12:31 PM

      I disagree. If judiasm was based on all or nothing there would be no more judiasm

  • AY March 26, 2009, 8:48 AM

    A good point – I’m reminded of the famous story where the Berditchever and another passed a man repairing a wagon wheel with grease. The repair guy was davening shacharis while fixing the wheel and the other passenger voiced disgust that he was doing so with soiled hands, etc. The Berditchever instead cried out “how wonderful are Your children – even while they grease their wagon wheels their mouths are still full of Your praise”
    Nice…

  • Annon March 26, 2009, 9:10 AM

    lol..who are the couple in the picture?

    • Anonymous July 10, 2010, 3:31 PM

      it`s avraham goldberg (the owner of the blog) with another bitch

      • Anonymous May 22, 2013, 11:36 PM

        Ouch. X-/

  • Tevye March 26, 2009, 9:14 AM

    Tefillin dates? In my opinion, it is the same as a a girl going to the mikveh before having relations with her boyfriend.

    I’ve only been married for a year and a half, and was shomer unit engaged… and we were only engaged for 3 weeks before we got married. It’s not that hard, find someone you love and marry that person. Stop dicking around… otherwise your just the same as a mamzer (because that’s what you’ll be creating).

    Laying Tefillin is more than just remembering Pesach, etc… its about remembering the whole of Torah. It isn’t about wrapping leather straps, its about binding ourselves to Hashem.

    @ AY (above): you’ve totally missed the point of the story… it isn’t about validifying someone messing up their hands… it’s more inline with “pulling you ox out of the ditch on shabbos.”

    A big yasher koach to all the brothers out there! You are more than capable of overcoming this and gaining a tikkun.

  • JDM March 26, 2009, 10:06 AM

    CA is right about some things but is 100% wrong in saying that an atheist is better than a conservative/reform jew. Why? 1) every jew is precious to g-d…who are you to say that G-d enjoys one person’s service over anothers. There are so many stories from chazal about reshaiim who did teshuva at the very last moment, and still merited eternal reward in the reward to come. Becoming an atheist removes all possibility of future teshuva 2) every mitzva has a symbolic value of a precious gem- would you throw away all your gems because you cannot hold all of them simultaneously? yes, there are some very important things that the conservative/reform movement do not hold (as well as superficial orthodox jews like the ones in the pictures) but they still believe in ONE G-d, which is the foundation of our faith. They are still jews and the torah requires us to show ahavat yisrael toward them. At the same time, we need to provide a guiding light that keeping all of hashem’s mitzvot is the ideal

    Regarding tefillin dates, b’kitzur it’s awful and is a distortion of judaism. The problem with all of this is probably the biggest problem confronting all jews today- how do we match our insides to our outsides?

    Rabbi Riskin wrote a fascinating vort this past purim which coincided with parashat tetzaveh, which deals with the priestly garb in the mishkan. The decor of the Persian palace is described with the same splendorous colors and materials that we use in the construction of the mishkan but the Sanctuary was imbued with sanctity while the Persian Palace was defiled with debauchery. The garb of the High Priest was for the sake of honor and glory (kavod and tiferet), (Exodus 28:2), and the Ahashverosh ball displayed the “honor of his kingdom…and the glory of his greatness”. Kavod malchuto…tiferet gedulato (Esther 1,4) ,- the honor and the glory of Ahashverosh no less. How similar externally to the High Priest and how different internally!

    What’s the lesson? Of course clothes are important, and external appearance affect internal emotions. Were this not the case, modest garb would not be such a cardinal Jewish value and unique Shabbat/holiday dress would not be a religious command.

    At the same time, however the Hebrew word beged (garment) is based on a root that means to betray, at the Hebrew word meil (cloak) is based on a root that means to steal. Clothes can make the individual and clothes can betray the individual; many a wolf parades in sheep’s clothing, and many an evil thought is hidden under a black hat or behind a long beard. It is precisely the high priest in his super-sacred garb who must be sure that his inner thoughts match his outer appearance. The lesson of Purim and Tetzaveh is that we must try to make certain that as much as possible we be what we appear to be, that there not be too great a chasm between our real and perceived selves…

    The real problem confronting the orthodox world today is when we get caught up in superficial judaism, when we think that one mitzva has more value than the other. When we judge ppl on their kippot and not on whether they charge interest on their loans nor keep a tahor bayit. When we judge girls that have not yet committed to 100% dressing modestly, but do not realize that we are doing the worst thing by saying lashon hara about them. When we think that “looking the look” is completely separate from being shomer torah, halochot, u’mitzvot.

    My response when I saw that picture was of distress, it actually pained me to see it. It reminded me of a pasuk from eichah, ‘All who once respected her (Israel), debased her, for they saw her nakedness.’ (Lamentations 1:8)

    I hate it when we can’t just be true jews, when the world looks at individuals within our community (all the more so when we jews pigeonhole ourselves into stupid stereotypes/classifications) and say that this community is no better than our community because they don’t practice what they preach to us.

    When individuals can perform a chillul hashem by making out in a car or doing another sin in private b/c they think that no one is watching them, it displays arrogance and lack or yiraht shamayim. Its the same arrogance that adam and chava had when they jumped into the bushes after their sin, that g-d is not constantly reviewing our actions. It’s the same arrogance that yonah had when he tried to run away from his obligations, that G-d can’t catch up to me if I hide somewhere far away.

    When we’re arrogant enough to say that we are “good enough” jews or human beings, that we don’t need to keep everything nor strive to improve ourselves in our avodat hashem, that is the biggest chaval.

    heshy, you are a great guy and do a lot of good work for the jewish community, but anyone who thinks that there could be a value to a tefillin date needs a refresher course in judaism 101

  • kiddush hashem March 26, 2009, 10:09 AM

    CA is right about some things but is 100% wrong in saying that an atheist is better than a conservative/reform jew. Why? 1) every jew is precious to g-d…who are you to say that G-d enjoys one person’s service over anothers. There are so many stories from chazal about reshaiim who did teshuva at the very last moment, and still merited eternal reward in the reward to come. Becoming an atheist removes all possibility of future teshuva 2) every mitzva has a symbolic value of a precious gem- would you throw away all your gems because you cannot hold all of them simultaneously? yes, there are some very important things that the conservative/reform movement do not hold (as well as superficial orthodox jews like the ones in the pictures) but they still believe in ONE G-d, which is the foundation of our faith. They are still jews and the torah requires us to show ahavat yisrael toward them. At the same time, we need to provide a guiding light that keeping all of hashem’s mitzvot is the ideal

  • kiddush hashem March 26, 2009, 10:10 AM

    Regarding tefillin dates, b’kitzur it’s awful and is a distortion of judaism. The problem with all of this is probably the biggest problem confronting all jews today- how do we match our insides to our outsides?

    Rabbi Riskin wrote a fascinating vort this past purim which coincided with parashat tetzaveh, which deals with the priestly garb in the mishkan. The decor of the Persian palace is described with the same splendorous colors and materials that we use in the construction of the mishkan but the Sanctuary was imbued with sanctity while the Persian Palace was defiled with debauchery. The garb of the High Priest was for the sake of honor and glory (kavod and tiferet), (Exodus 28:2), and the Ahashverosh ball displayed the “honor of his kingdom…and the glory of his greatness”. Kavod malchuto…tiferet gedulato (Esther 1,4) ,- the honor and the glory of Ahashverosh no less. How similar externally to the High Priest and how different internally!

    What’s the lesson? Of course clothes are important, and external appearance affect internal emotions. Were this not the case, modest garb would not be such a cardinal Jewish value and unique Shabbat/holiday dress would not be a religious command.

    At the same time, however the Hebrew word beged (garment) is based on a root that means to betray, at the Hebrew word meil (cloak) is based on a root that means to steal. Clothes can make the individual and clothes can betray the individual; many a wolf parades in sheep’s clothing, and many an evil thought is hidden under a black hat or behind a long beard. It is precisely the high priest in his super-sacred garb who must be sure that his inner thoughts match his outer appearance. The lesson of Purim and Tetzaveh is that we must try to make certain that as much as possible we be what we appear to be, that there not be too great a chasm between our real and perceived selves…

    The real problem confronting the orthodox world today is when we get caught up in superficial judaism, when we think that one mitzva has more value than the other. When we judge ppl on their kippot and not on whether they charge interest on their loans nor keep a tahor bayit. When we judge girls that have not yet committed to 100% dressing modestly, but do not realize that we are doing the worst thing by saying lashon hara about them. When we think that “looking the look” is completely separate from being shomer torah, halochot, u’mitzvot.

    My response when I saw that picture was of distress, it actually pained me to see it. It reminded me of a pasuk from eichah, ‘All who once respected her (Israel), debased her, for they saw her nakedness.’ (Lamentations 1:8)

    I hate it when we can’t just be true jews, when the world looks at individuals within our community (all the more so when we jews pigeonhole ourselves into stupid stereotypes/classifications) and say that this community is no better than our community because they don’t practice what they preach to us.

    When individuals can perform a chillul hashem by making out in a car or doing another sin in private b/c they think that no one is watching them, it displays arrogance and lack or yiraht shamayim. Its the same arrogance that adam and chava had when they jumped into the bushes after their sin, that g-d is not constantly reviewing our actions. It’s the same arrogance that yonah had when he tried to run away from his obligations, that G-d can’t catch up to me if I hide somewhere far away.

    When we’re arrogant enough to say that we are “good enough” jews or human beings, that we don’t need to keep everything nor strive to improve ourselves in our avodat hashem, that is the biggest chaval.

    heshy, you are a great guy and do a lot of good work for the jewish community, but anyone who thinks that there could be a value to a tefillin date needs a refresher course in judaism 101

  • kiddush hashem March 26, 2009, 10:12 AM

    Regarding tefillin dates, b’kitzur it’s awful and is a distortion of judaism. The problem with all of this is probably the biggest problem confronting all jews today- how do we match our insides to our outsides?

    Rabbi Riskin wrote a fascinating vort this past purim which coincided with parashat tetzaveh, which deals with the priestly garb in the mishkan. The decor of the Persian palace is described with the same splendorous colors and materials that we use in the construction of the mishkan but the Sanctuary was imbued with sanctity while the Persian Palace was defiled with debauchery. The garb of the High Priest was for the sake of honor and glory (kavod and tiferet), (Exodus 28:2), and the Ahashverosh ball displayed the “honor of his kingdom…and the glory of his greatness”. Kavod malchuto…tiferet gedulato (Esther 1,4) ,- the honor and the glory of Ahashverosh no less. How similar externally to the High Priest and how different internally!

    What’s the lesson? Of course clothes are important, and external appearance affect internal emotions. Were this not the case, modest garb would not be such a cardinal Jewish value and unique Shabbat/holiday dress would not be a religious command.

    At the same time, however the Hebrew word beged (garment) is based on a root that means to betray, at the Hebrew word meil (cloak) is based on a root that means to steal. Clothes can make the individual and clothes can betray the individual; many a wolf parades in sheep’s clothing, and many an evil thought is hidden under a black hat or behind a long beard. It is precisely the high priest in his super-sacred garb who must be sure that his inner thoughts match his outer appearance. The lesson of Purim and Tetzaveh is that we must try to make certain that as much as possible we be what we appear to be, that there not be too great a chasm between our real and perceived selves…

  • kiddush hashem March 26, 2009, 10:20 AM

    The real problem confronting the orthodox world today is when we get caught up in superficial judaism, when we think that one mitzva has more value than the other. When we judge ppl on their kippot and not on whether they charge interest on their loans nor keep a tahor bayit. When we judge girls that have not yet committed to 100% dressing modestly, but do not realize that we are doing the worst thing by saying lashon hara about them. When we think that “looking the look” is completely separate from being shomer torah, halochot, u’mitzvot.

  • kiddush hashem March 26, 2009, 10:26 AM

    My response when I saw that picture was of distress, it actually pained me to see it. It reminded me of a pasuk from eichah, ‘All who once respected her (Israel), debased her, for they saw her nakedness.’ (Lamentations 1:8) I hate it when we can’t just be true jews, when the world looks at individuals within our community (all the more so when we jews pigeonhole ourselves into stupid stereotypes/classifications) and say that this community is no better than our community because they don’t practice what they preach to us.

    When individuals can perform a chillul hashem by making out in a car or doing another sin in private b/c they think that no one is watching them, it displays arrogance and lack or yiraht shamayim. Its the same arrogance that adam and chava had when they jumped into the bushes after their sin, that g-d is not constantly reviewing our actions. It’s the same arrogance that yonah had when he tried to run away from his obligations, that G-d can’t catch up to me if I hide somewhere far away.

    When we’re arrogant enough to say that we are “good enough” jews or human beings, that we don’t need to keep everything nor strive to improve ourselves in our avodat hashem, that is the biggest chaval.

  • TRS March 26, 2009, 10:30 AM

    Wow, I’ve become quoted. The joy!

  • kiddush hashem March 26, 2009, 10:36 AM

    my bad- you can delete all of the kiddush hashem posts b/c its a repeat

  • Homey March 26, 2009, 10:39 AM

    That beard must have really turned that chick on

  • Frum Satire March 26, 2009, 10:42 AM

    These are some of the longest comments I have ever seen – look I was talking about this with my road trip to Texas partner and it makes sense to me. I knew some of you less progressive people would fail to see the light. Hey where the F is Phil?

    I never said anything about being good enough – I made the point of this post to say – back in the day no one would have thought to brought their tefillin and the fact that people can sin and not throw it all away is a good thing.

    Don’t take the title of the post too seriously – I am being sarcastic.

    • Moshe October 9, 2009, 12:05 PM

      This must be a fake picture. I don’t believe it at all. Anyway, I like to think all of the bretheren in Klal Yisrael mean well and try to do their best. There are many temptations in this world. The challenge is to fight the urge and keep fighting and keep fighting. Eventually we all will win our challenges. We all have to try out hardest to uphold every single mitzvah. Don’t worry about the person next to you. But seriously worry worry worry about yourself. If you want to tell someone that what he is doing is wrong it must be done gentley. Today everything has to be given over gentley and with a smile.

      I want to wish everyone on this blog a Great Year and only only only only Simchas!!!!

  • STD March 26, 2009, 10:55 AM

    Another angle to look at it is that back in the day no one who put on tefillin on a regular basis would participate in casual sex. I think its more of a change in the value system where now there is more of an emphasis on how one looks outwardly (i.e mode of dress and possibly laying tefillin) as opposed to how one acts in private (i.e. casual sex)

  • Sara March 26, 2009, 10:56 AM

    People left quite lengthy comments and I’m not gonna lie I skipped most of them.. But, here’s my message to you and my biggest problem with Judaism — Please stop being so judgmental. I know it’s not all Jews and maybe I saw it more because I grew up in a relatively condensed Jewish community, but Jews tend to be so judgmental and it’s really not conducive. There is no way for any of you to know the full story even if you know, or think you know, the people involved. So, please let people live their own lives and only if they come to you for advice then feel free to give as much as you’d like. Otherwise, let’s all just worry about fixing and improving ourselves.
    I know I didn’t connect it explicitly with the topic, but I’m sure you can make the connection yourselves.

  • smooth shemp March 26, 2009, 10:59 AM

    good thing you not a true crown heights-er
    … you’d be schlepping a lot more stuff than a pair…..
    i hope that your special woman comes along asap so you can leave your stuff at home and/or at shul.
    but until then – mazel tov!

  • STD March 26, 2009, 11:05 AM

    One thing I find disturbing about tefillin dates is the cavalier attitude people take towards it, such as facebook groups, website etc. Considering the fact that it’s a reprehensible act why has it become an almost respectable topic of conversation, more often than not tinged with a bit of humor?

  • Ginger March 26, 2009, 11:10 AM

    I agree with Sara here. Who is anyone to judge? Besides, how do the actions of a tefillin dater impact our lives? They don’t. We live in a free world.

    PS LOVE the pic and the post.

    • Moshe October 9, 2009, 12:09 PM

      Listen, its not really a free world. If we didn’t care about any of our bretheren there would be alot less jews around today. For example, do you know how much amazing work AISH Hatorah does around the world. If they would relax and not try to impact anyone, who knows where how many hundreds and thousands of people would be today? Its just the way we have to do things. Nobody says to ignore and let everyone do what they want. You got to spread the love of Judaism!!!
      Sorry to burst your bubble.

  • JH March 26, 2009, 11:17 AM

    What is the back story on the photo up top? Who are they?

  • Phil March 26, 2009, 11:36 AM

    Hesh,

    This ones a tough call, you can really look at it both ways.

    Love the pic as usual, but I’m sure you’re evntually going to get it from from someone that knows them, calling you evil for posting it. I’m assuming that’s not his sister, and she doesn’t seem to have her hair covered either. Funny enough, from what I can see, he looks just like someone I know.

    As far as CA calling anyone that ate Cholov Akum a rasha, go read the previous post on milk for some more insight.

    Besides, how would any hechser allow it just by putting a “D” or “DE” on the package?

  • CA March 26, 2009, 11:49 AM

    every jew is precious to g-dwho are you to say that G-d enjoys one persons service over anothers.

    One thing has nothing to do with another. Every son is precious to his father, but the father prefers it when one of the sons does something good and hates when the other son takes drugs. Who am I to say what G-d prefers? I am a nobody, and I am not saying anything. But there was a guy called Moses who told us what G-d prefers and he knew, because G-d told him (after He told all of us the gist).

    Becoming an atheist removes all possibility of future teshuva

    I was an atheist, and I hope to think I have a chance for teshuva. When youre an atheist, you are just ignorant. But intelligent. And you recognize that G-d is absent in your life. Therefore, if you ever come to the point where you see that G-d has to be present, you know that things need to be fixed.

    On the other hand, a Reform Jew is not only ignorant but also a moron and he will never recognize (or, its more difficult for him to recognize) that G-d is absent, because he created an illusory experience of G-dliness with his fake religion.

    They are still jews and the torah requires us to show ahavat yisrael toward them.

    Torah requires us to show ahavas yisroel to a serial murderer if he is Jewish. Therefore what? I am not saying you should hate Reform Jews. I am saying you should hate Reform Judaism and everything that resembles it (like tefillin dates).

    Now, tzitzis dates are actually something. Since there is a precedent of tzitzis preventing a Jew from sleeping with a shiksa prostitute, it may also work in preventing him from sleeping with a Jewish one.

    (Actually the thing with milk was somewhat a euphemism for sinning in general. And half-serious.)

  • Levi Keller March 26, 2009, 11:59 AM

    I’m a chabadnik, so I always bring my Rabbeinu Tam’s. Girls really dig the super-jews…

    I’m not worried about mamzerim, because i’m already a mamzer. My ancestor of 11 generations was raped by the cossacks in the seventeenth century which is why i have blond hair and blue eyes.

    As far as sinning goes, it’s a big mitzvah and i do it l’halacha as pilegesh so i am yotze, l’chol hadayos there is no mashmaos of aishes ish, because i always give a prima facie get before absconding with my tefilin for yichud with HKB”H..

    L’shem yichud kudsha brich hu ushkhinte yachado’o, shem YH b’VH veyichuda shlim bshem kol yisrael: this way i get my yichuda ila’a and my yichuda thata’a

    Halo neima rozin bmilin dzignizin, vleitheihon mithchazin……

    • Moshe October 9, 2009, 12:13 PM

      This whole post and the whole page really isn’t appropriate for Religious Jews. This is something that the Torah always refers to as done privatley and spoken about privatley. Its a little to much to be joking around with. I think its better you joke about Avoda Zora.
      I think its quite obvious what I’m saying

    • MadMaxInJerusalem November 19, 2009, 9:26 PM

      According to Rambam in the Mishne Torah it is a d’oriyta prohibition ( one of the written 613 ) to sleep with a Jewish woman without kiddushin and ketubah. Only kings are allowed pilegesh. Just so you should be aware of this opinion.

  • CA March 26, 2009, 12:01 PM

    Now, the question that everyone is thinking but not asking is: why is the guy buckled up?

  • prili March 26, 2009, 12:01 PM

    You are all fighting over bringing tefillin on a date and how horrible that is. But remember this, when you get to heaven after 120 years G-d isn’t gonna say to you-“Oy! Where were you when all those guys were bringing their tefillin with them on dates” He’s probably alot more likely to ask “Hey! Why were you so busy critizising Heshy’s post and other peoples opinions on obviously very private personal topics? Why weren’t you workin on yourself instead?”

    • Moshe October 9, 2009, 12:15 PM

      I am sorry but certain things all jews are responsible to do something about.
      We are all responsbile for eachother. Its very hard for Americanized people to understand this but it is 100% true. Kol Yisrael Areivim Zeh Bazeh.

  • Hannah Heller March 26, 2009, 12:16 PM

    If a guy wants to go on a Tefillin date, far be it from me to interfere, even though I don’t approve. However, if you’re going to do that, you need to stop preaching about not shaking hands with women, women singing in front of men, dressing in a tznius way, Conservative and Reform Jews, gays and lesbians, etc. In other words, if you’re a hypocrite, stop criticizing everyone else who finds religious fulfillment in a way that is different from yours. We need to end this “holier than thou” attitude that divides Jews throughout the world!

    • jack December 25, 2009, 9:24 PM

      i am fully pro your massage

  • s(b.) March 26, 2009, 12:19 PM

    But when you want money for people with minds that hate
    All i can tell you is, brother, you have to wait
    -lennon/mccartney

  • Sergeant J March 26, 2009, 12:19 PM

    Prili has a point…. At least there is someone remembering tefillin…let Hashem judge what we don’t see…

  • Sergeant J March 26, 2009, 12:21 PM

    The real crime is idling an SUV to make out… Even using onr for two people only… get a scooter, the helmets will keep your identities safe…

  • Erie March 26, 2009, 12:48 PM

    Wow, its amazing how so many people missed the name on the website – frumsatire – and went on all out jew crazed raves. you people need a sense of humor. Not to mention the fact that some of these posts are actually disgusting displays of small minds living in small worlds. Yes you “may as well be an atheist because you can’t live up to my standards.” Shame on you.

  • Phil March 26, 2009, 12:51 PM

    CA, yeah that and who the perv with the camera was…

  • Mordy Ovits March 26, 2009, 1:07 PM
  • Yaakovsladder March 26, 2009, 1:22 PM

    I was going to write about the story of R. Levi of Berdichev and the planning of aveiros. One aveirah doesn’t preclude anyone from doing a mitzvah but to degrade a bas Yisroel by sleeping with her outside of marriage is not something that someone can do and then clop their chest and say how frum they are. Teffilin dates are not the ideal situation. Not good for the neshama!

  • cma March 26, 2009, 1:44 PM

    the levi yitzchak of berditchev story is different than a tefillen date bec in the story he is putting forethought into the sin– and legitimizing it. here the boy is going on with other aspects of his religious life as usual even though he has reason to dismiss it all after a (premeditated) sin and feel depressed which causes people to stop doing mitzvos– I am bad anyway. Like Frumsatire said this is a good distinction based on chassidus. you sinned you idiot now keep on going and dont excuse more reprehensibility

  • Sergeant J March 26, 2009, 1:45 PM

    Right on..

  • Doniel March 26, 2009, 1:45 PM

    These tefillin dates are a horrible and shameful thing. If you are going to sin, then don’t bring G-d into the picture. He hates hypocrites, and any one who does such a thing is a hypocrite, just like the swingers, child molesters, adulterers and homosexuals. You are causing irreparable damage to your neshamas and you will not be able to have a normal, happy marriage. There can be no bayis ne’eman b’ yisroel when there is such impurity and intentional promuscuity. You owe your spouse your virginity. You can never take it back.

  • Anonymous March 26, 2009, 1:49 PM

    This picture is AWESOME!! where did you find it?

  • Ra'anan In Albany March 26, 2009, 1:58 PM

    When i was younger, my grandmother told me story from back in the “auld count-tree”, in her Hungarian-laden-broken-Hebrew. There was a real SOB who died in the town, and at the funeral, the rabbi was really talking this guy up, how much of an upstanding citizen he was. At some point, the wife tells the daughter(or son; must have been a random kid) to “open the casket, make sure it’s your father they’re talking about.” We don’t necesarrily know what goes on behind the scenes. Maybe, if we actually see something happen, we should be happy the guy made sure to daven. Maybe they didn’t actually commit the deed, and only ended up at 3rd base. That might be bad, but hitting the longball is worse. We should be dan l’kav zchut. Certainly condone the action, but not the people. They have their own nisyonot to traverse.

  • Mark March 26, 2009, 2:12 PM

    Ra’anan – Certainly condone the action, but not the people.

    Now this is really funny! I don’t think you quite meant it this way 🙂

  • Joy March 26, 2009, 2:18 PM

    I am not pointing fingers and saying that you are a bad or good person.However as a frum jew it is assur to sleep with someone before you are married or to sleep with someone other than your spouse after you are married whether or not you bring your tefillin or have pas yisroel bagels to eat the next morning.You can’t do a mitzvah while doing an aveirah.It is like sitting with no clothing on while learning a sefer -that would be a complete bezayon to the sefer!

  • Ruth March 26, 2009, 2:25 PM

    I think he meant condemn.

  • Mark March 26, 2009, 2:28 PM

    STD – One thing I find disturbing about tefillin dates is the cavalier attitude people take towards it, such as facebook groups, website etc. Considering the fact that its a reprehensible act why has it become an almost respectable topic of conversation, more often than not tinged with a bit of humor?

    The phrase “tefillin date” didn’t exist back when I was dating (or at least I never heard it), but I definitely have heard it much more often recently. Most recently, I’ve asked some young people about it, and the justification they’ve almost all (both male and female) given is quite interesting. Basically, their justifications boil down to blaming it on “society” – if “society” makes it so difficult for them to get married, and they’ve already hit their late 20’s or early 30’s, they feel that due to their normal human desires, they’ve decided to have sex. I can even sort of understand this justification.

    My wife even has a second cousin (not frum and living in Israel) that was still single into her late 30’s and decided that she probably isn’t going to find a husband anytime soon but wanted a child. So she had herself artificially inseminated and now has a beautiful daughter. I think I have even heard of similar cases in the frum community.

  • Mark March 26, 2009, 2:29 PM

    I think he meant condemn.

    Yes, of course. It was just very funny the other way.

  • Phil March 26, 2009, 2:30 PM

    It’s not like the guy is going to do her while wearing tefillin. Why all the negative comments about the guy wanting to put tefillin the morning after?

    How many outreach rabbis go and seek all kinds of Jews out to put tefillin and other mitzvos despite them transgressing more severe sins such as descecrating Shabbos, eating non kosher, etc?

    How many Shluchim invite people to shul on Shabbos and even Yom Kippur knowing very well that they will be driving there? Does that make more sense?

    I’m not saying these guys are tzadikkim or trying to condone what they do. I’m just saying that if they are going to sleep around, isn’t it better that they still put tefillin the next day?

    • Avrumy November 18, 2009, 2:37 PM

      It’s like with us gay orthodox guys. People sometimes ask: “and you put on tfillin in the morning afterwards?” Of course! One has nothing to do with the other. I am glad Phil would agree, based on his post.

      • MadMaxInJerusalem November 19, 2009, 9:37 PM

        I think you’re missing something. If someone puts a gun to your head and says stick your d-ck in this other guy or I’m going to blow your brains out – you take the bullet in the head. It’s one thing if your yetzer harah occasionally gets the best of you, but to intentionally sin as a regular routine in day to day life seems very bad, especially a sin which is on the same level of idolatry and murder. Far be it from me to judge you or anyone else, but just trying to give a little perspective.

  • Cady March 26, 2009, 2:31 PM

    Dang Heshy! You sure threw them a good one to fight over today. Pffft Pfffffttt… Rrrrrr!

    It’s a big world people. All kinds of way to live a life. In fact , there are 6 billions ways to get through a life. Try judging only yours. Don’t judge others. You are not able to fathom their reasons. It is hard enough to fathom your own inner convulsions.

    If you have the sex drive of a gnat then it is easy to control yourself. More importantly you could not even begin to fathom what it would be like to live with the sex drive of a rabbit.

    You gnats tutting over the rabbits of the world, hush. I’m sure you have some other urge you keep to yourself and give in to when no one can see and then say your prayers afterwards.

  • Sergeant J March 26, 2009, 2:34 PM

    Joy, do you know about a new Tefillin sex fetish?

    If a mitzvah done after an unrelated aveirah is nullified, how does anyone ever get any mitzvah credit?.. we all commit aveirot from time to time..
    The “you can never be good enough for G-d” argument you seem to have out there is kinda Christian-like..

    • MadMaxInJerusalem November 19, 2009, 9:39 PM

      My understanding is that averot and mitzvot are weighed separately – they don’t cancel each other out.

  • Yossi G. March 26, 2009, 2:41 PM

    WTF??!!

    Are you aware of how wrong, offensive and just plain stupid that comment is?

    In “protecting” Judaism, you misquote halacha (this is called ziuf hatorah and is prohibited!) re mamzer which is only a child from an adulterous marriage, you make it sound like normal people can/ should get married within under a month, and you are promoting bad marriages as a cure to being horny!

    You do a disservice to Judaism, to the many unmarried singles, and to your own overinflated self-esteem.

  • BeingVenus March 26, 2009, 3:02 PM

    I’m sorry, but I agree. Any mitzvah is a good thing and if you decide to break one thing this doesn’t mean you should throw the baby out with the bathwater. I think this sort of thing is going to occur with or without permission or approval… The only thing that changes is without those things it’s more likely to go on behind closed doors.

    I mean. it would be, to me like consciously not saying a Shehakol before eating and then going “Well I screwed that up, I might as well eat a cheeseburger now.”

  • CadyMae March 26, 2009, 3:38 PM

    Why are comments not posting?

  • nameless, faceless March 26, 2009, 3:39 PM

    Tefillin dates are complete and total bullshit and I’d say that I’m a pretty “progressive” Jew, so it’s not like I’m a goody-two-shoes or stick in the mud. If you care enough about God or your Judaism to remember you need to pray in the morning, maybe you remember that you shouldn’t slut yourself up with other “frummies” while carrying bits of Torah around.

    Anyway, read all about it: http://shesnamelessfaceless.blogspot.com/2009/03/tefillin-dates.html

  • CadyMae March 26, 2009, 3:41 PM

    Sigh. OK I’ll try posting again.

    Dang Heshy! You sure threw them a good one to fight over today. Pffft Pfffffttt… Rrrrrr!

    It’s a big world people. All kinds of way to live a life. In fact , there are 6 billions ways to get through a life. Try judging only yours. Don’t judge others. You are not able to fathom their reasons. It is hard enough to fathom your own inner convulsions.

    If you have the sex drive of a gnat then it is easy to control yourself. More importantly you could not even begin to fathom what it would be like to live with the sex drive of a rabbit.

    You gnats tutting over the rabbits of the world, hush. I’m sure you have some other urge you keep to yourself and give in to when no one can see and then say your prayers afterwards.

  • abandoning eden March 26, 2009, 3:57 PM

    jews making out is not a chillul hashem, because no one who isn’t another jew could care less. seriously.

  • Frum Pimp March 26, 2009, 9:54 PM

    I am the administrator of the tefillin date website, as well as the facebook group and myspace page.
    We are trying to ecourage more single frum guys and girls to have premarital sex in a kosher manner (through mikva and pilegesh relationships).
    We realise this generation can no longer be sexually repressed and needs an infusion of sex to make it healthy and happy, and can’t continue going on with chumras and bans.

    If you are interested in learning more about the topic of tefillin dating or are interested in meeting a hot frum guy or girl for a tefillin date, please check out our website removed by author

    • MadMaxInJerusalem November 21, 2009, 8:46 PM

      Hesh, or whoever it is that runs FrumSatire, you need to delete this comment. There is zero legitimacy to what FrumPimp is doing. What he’s running is a straight up porn sight with no redeeming value. The line about trying to promote “kosher” pre-marital sex is obvious bunk the moment you see all to porn on his website. FrumSatire hurts it’s credibility by allowing someone like FrumPimp to post a link on FrumSatire.

      • Anonymous November 23, 2009, 5:35 AM

        I agree. You must take this link off whoever the organizer of this blog is.

  • Yosef March 26, 2009, 5:29 PM

    I don’t get why you people are whining, there is NOTHING wrong with a tefillin date, at all.

  • Ruth March 26, 2009, 5:44 PM

    Yosef,

    Are you SERIOUS?!

  • HannaH March 26, 2009, 6:43 PM

    in essence by davening after….. what is really being said by the guy is tht really he believes in g-d but not the commandments.
    the message / idea tht comes across on the women’s side is tznius. she is generally modest but, like hebrew grammer- there are always exceptions…..

  • HannaH March 26, 2009, 6:45 PM

    “I dont get why you people are whining, there is NOTHING wrong with a tefillin date, at all.”

    did you read ANY of the comments? EVERYTHING about teffilin dates is/are wrong!
    well, everything except the teffilin.

  • Veebee March 26, 2009, 6:54 PM

    Where did you find such a humorous picture?

  • Double M March 26, 2009, 7:11 PM

    I disagree with it. Imagine wrestling with these options in place of getting up for minyan:

    **alarm clock blears**
    Just one more moment
    **falls back asleep with the alarm going**

    Now think of this other option.

    **alarm clock blears**
    **the couple exchanges looks**
    **the alarm clock is shut off and the time is no longer relevant**

    Disclaimer: I completely disagree with the objectionable part of this practice, Im just trying to poke fun at this.

  • Homey March 26, 2009, 8:14 PM

    If I sprout a beard like that, will I also pick up babes?

  • yeshiva dude March 26, 2009, 8:24 PM

    FRUM SATIRE,

    Tefillin dates are a terrible thing!!!!! Not only are you equating the mitzva of tefillin with sex, but you are in effect making the sick act a normal part of your life. It will help you justify your actions, lead to many more similar if not worse acts (because after all you’re doing the mitzva of tefillin right? so how bad can it be after all) and will ultimately lead to your downfall and you’ll end up like our good friend mr. off the derech!!!!

  • yeshiva dude March 26, 2009, 8:27 PM

    Oh and just a hint to all of you super annoying long post writers- no one will read your boring post especially if you make them too long!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Jelen March 26, 2009, 8:29 PM

    hesh, you’re right. definitely “living poof” 🙂

    i didnt have the energy to read all the comments, but as someone who has had an actual tefillin date, it is very nice to know that just because you’re not doing so well at keeping one mitzvah, Hashem hasn’t banned you from keeping all the others. (this is a perspective that my chabad rabbi reinforces all the time. )

  • yeshiva dude March 26, 2009, 8:40 PM

    TO ALL THOSE THAT REFER TO THIS PICTURE AS “HUMOROUS”,

    You’re all a bunch of sick bastards!!!! How the hell can you playfully declare a made public desecration of your Gods torah to be a humorous thing??!!! Then you go on to daven and cry your hearts out and ask hashem for things you want and wonder why you don’t get answered!?

  • Phil March 26, 2009, 8:46 PM

    Yeshiva Dude,

    You should judge them “lkaf zchus”, maybe she stopped breathing in his car and he just happens to be a hatzolo member…

  • Hornball March 26, 2009, 8:52 PM

    At least he had a white shirt on.

  • Hornball March 26, 2009, 9:05 PM

    I’d give her a breast exam for any lumps if I had to.

  • veebee March 26, 2009, 10:14 PM

    yeshiva dude – welcome to the real world; people have different beliefs than you! If you don’t like their beliefs, suck it up; no one likes your beliefs either.

    • Moshe October 9, 2009, 12:22 PM

      What do you mean people have different beliefs? All who adhere to the Torah tightly does not have a different belief. If you do have a different belief its a mistaken belief and it will take time to work on. Speak to one who has some wisdom about the Torah.
      Common, don’t be silly.

  • Michal bas Avraham March 26, 2009, 10:23 PM

    Going on a tefillin date is being two-faced.

  • yeshiva dude March 26, 2009, 10:25 PM

    veebee,

    Did you just refer to those as beliefs? Yeah, that’s right, I must have seen wrong!

  • D B March 26, 2009, 10:26 PM

    Perhaps he is gay and this girl is trying to turn him straight again. Being gay is more assur than shomer negiah!

  • prili March 26, 2009, 10:26 PM

    Michal- im not saying that i agree with this tefillin date idea, but just the fact that you felt the need to state your opinion on someone elses personal choices is in a way being two-faced. If you are frum then why are you judging these people- give them the benifit of the doubt, and stick to judging yourself and not other people

  • Veebee March 26, 2009, 10:34 PM

    yeshiva dude – nice failed attempt at circumventing said issue. Maybe you should stop being so egotistical and realize that, yes, it is my (and others) belief that this picture is hilarious.

  • yeshiva dude March 26, 2009, 10:41 PM

    veebee,

    I give up on you.

  • Veebee March 26, 2009, 10:51 PM

    Thanks for the alert.

  • Anonymous March 26, 2009, 11:07 PM

    Prili? Have you ever read Michal’s comments before? Save yourself now, the girl is the broken mold of contradiction.

  • Michal bas Avraham March 26, 2009, 11:19 PM

    Prili-
    All of you people think it doesn’t matter what I do and mind your own business. These tefillin dates and the like eat away at the fiber of Judaism. I don’t understand, if people want to sleep around, why don’t they just go and be Conservative or Reform?

  • Frum Satire March 27, 2009, 12:38 AM

    For the record I have never been on a tefillin date – I probably should have said that in the post.

  • Sergeant J March 27, 2009, 12:44 AM

    Michal!!, you of all people should know what the TRUTH here is, she is HELPING him get over that horrible “yellow fever” you were complaining about a while back! Now he won’t come here nd defend Asian women who have issues with conversion, so you should be dancing in the streets that such a Mitzvah is taking place!! Maybe you can marry him now, he doesn’t look Sefardic, so maybe, assuming his parents are not divorced, he’d fit your other categories.. After all, if she went to mikveh before the kiss, it’s all good, right…
    What’s new, kiddo?

  • ipitythefoo March 27, 2009, 12:51 AM

    I am conflicted as I consider the different meanings that these teffilin dates might have for people. I think it boils down to people reachinng out for Hashem, even from a dark place of aveira. That mkes it a better, more hopeful situation in my opinion.

  • Phil March 27, 2009, 9:34 AM

    Pimp,

    I hope you’re kidding. Ain’t nothing worse than trying to help other people sin.

    No such thing as kosher pre-marital sex anymore. Mikva doesn’t make it OK, it just takes away they Nidda thing, and pilagshos were outlawed to the public and reserved only for kings.

    Nice try though.

    • MadMaxInJerusalem November 19, 2009, 10:01 PM

      Outlawed? Rambam lists the prohibititon on sex without kidushin and ketubah as one of the 613 d’oriyta written mitzvot.

  • former baltimorean March 27, 2009, 11:18 AM

    i dont get why some people get all bent out of shape regarding tefilin dates, does anyone get all hot and bothered when you see people talking lashon hara while wearing their tefilin, shouldn’t that be viwed as being more hypocritical, transgressing an issur dioraisah while wearing tefilin, an actual tovel visheretz biyado, similarly, why isn’t anyone up in arms about yeshivah bachurim or kolel yungerleit talking a whole bunch of smack while taking a little r and r in the coffee room during seder, regarding tefilin dates, at least the guy wasn’t wearing them while getting his jiggy on, once again, it all boils down to people in the right winged frum community favoring socially acceptable aveiros, over those that aren’t, even when there is no logical or halachic rhyme or reason behind it!!!

  • smart widow March 27, 2009, 4:43 PM

    Here’s what I see in this picture. This is a recently married couple. She’s just gone to the mikvah, and he’s been waiting for her in the parking lot, which explains why his seat belt is buckled. She jumps into the car and gives him a huge kiss. (When they’re a little older, they’ll hold off ’til they get home.) The only aveirah being committed here belongs to the shameless person hanging around the mikvah with a camera.

  • HannaH March 27, 2009, 6:01 PM

    -smart widow
    wow. that was a really good example of dan l’kaf zechus. may we all merit to be as none judgemental as you.

  • Chris_B March 28, 2009, 5:19 AM

    smart widow wins the thread. Lovingkindness beats angry bile any day of the week.

  • Mark March 28, 2009, 7:55 PM

    wow. that was a really good example of dan lkaf zechus. may we all merit to be as none judgmental as you.

    Except to be dan lekaf zechut, you also have to account for reality. Don’t women go to the mikvah after nightfall? In that picture, it is quite obviously daytime.

    • MadMaxInJerusalem November 19, 2009, 10:05 PM

      Techinally a woman can go to mikvah during the days. Generally people don’t do it so as not to get their counting of the clean days messed up and so as not to confuse their daughters. However, if the woman wants to be super modest ( so that her kids don’t know that she’s going to shtup that night ) she can put off going to the mikveh till the following day while the kids are at school. Sounds weird, but 100% true.

  • smart widow March 28, 2009, 8:08 PM

    You had me worried there for a minute, Mark, but where you’re seeing daylight, I see just a light-colored wall, probably illuminated by a lamp. No reason why this couldn’t be night.

  • smart widow March 28, 2009, 9:00 PM

    Oh, and by the way–the mikvah idea is just my scenario. The real point concerns whether or not this couple is married. And the real joke is that because they’re so passionate, everyone is assuming they’re not!

  • Mark March 28, 2009, 9:02 PM

    You had me worried there for a minute, Mark, but where youre seeing daylight, I see just a light-colored wall, probably illuminated by a lamp. No reason why this couldnt be night.

    If it were night, then this picture was taken in a remarkably bright spot. Everything visible is quite bright. Even a strong flash from a camera wouldn’t have brightened up the interior of the car that much, and certainly wouldn’t have brightened past the windows to the wall. Finally, if there had been a flash, we would see some reflections of it in the window(s). Also, her hair doesn’t appear to be at all wet and appears to be somewhat thick (though she could have dried it inside, but then I doubt her husband would have waited all that time, and it’s not winter because neither is even wearing a jacket). Also, it looks like she is wearing earrings, and most women would leave their earrings at home before going to the mikvah. Finally, why bring the mikvah into it in the first place? It could be a simple picture of a married couple (it could as likely be my wife and I as any number of our neighbors).

  • Hornball March 28, 2009, 9:24 PM

    It still turns me on…:p

  • Michal bas Avraham March 29, 2009, 12:24 AM

    Sergeant J,
    You don’t even make sense.

    Smart Widow,
    if they’re married they still shouldn’t be making out where they can be seen. Married people are not supposed to touch or hand things to each other in front of people/publically unless she’s pregnant and showing because people aren’t really supposed to know a woman’s time of the month or not.

    What’s also sick about this stuff is that all these pre-converts reading this get the idea that it’s ok for them to convert and sleep around. We have enough of that going on without telling anyone it’s ok, let alone people who don’t need to be Jewish in the first place.

    NOTE if you want to convert and you expect to sleep around after, do yourself and the Jewish people a favor, just don’t convert. You don’t have to convert because your father or grandfather or ex-husband is Jewish.

  • prili March 29, 2009, 12:43 AM

    Michal,
    While I do appreciate some of the ideas that you have put down (i.e. premartial sex, and even touching of the opposite sex is assur untuil marrige) you seem to have a slightly negative veiw of the world in general and that makes me sad for you. I come from a modern orthodox family. My parents touch in public, my mother doesn’t cover her hair, but she does keep other laws of sneut (skirts, long sleeves ect.) and my father wears a kepah. This couple could very well be my parents (although they do seem kind of young haha) You are looking at this from a prisim of very right wing orthodoxy, and while it is beautiful that you feel that everyone should be very stringent in the halacha (believe me i feel the same way) not everyone is on the same madragah as you, perhaps you should take the time to formulate your words in a less rageful way.

  • prili March 29, 2009, 12:44 AM

    Michal,
    While I do appreciate some of the ideas that you have put down (i.e. premartial sex, and even touching of the opposite sex is assur untuil marrige) you seem to have a slightly negative veiw of the world in general and that makes me sad for you. I come from a modern orthodox family. My parents touch in public, my mother doesn’t cover her hair, but she does keep other laws of sneut (skirts, long sleeves ect.) and my father wears a kepah. This couple could very well be my parents (although they do seem kind of young haha) You are looking at this from a prisim of very right wing orthodoxy, and while it is beautiful that you feel that everyone should be very stringent in halacha (believe me I feel the same way) not everyone is on the same madragah as you, perhaps you should take the time to formulate your words in a less rageful way

  • Sergeant J March 29, 2009, 1:50 AM

    Where Michal SPECIFICALLY, did I say something you have issue with? And really, why is some perv snapping pics of anyone in a car in the first place? Also, I am pretty sure the majority of “tefillin daters” are FFBs. I am not an FFB, Convert, or Tefillin dater, in case you were wondering…

  • prili March 29, 2009, 2:06 AM

    Michal,
    What people are supposed to do and what they actually do are two different things. Like for exapmle, we should all be don likaf zechut and assume the best from the situation, not spew out halachot like a machine and expect everyone to follow them. Some people are not on the madgraigah that you are obviously on.
    You are obviously frum, why not speak in a nice way, that could inspire others to emulate you, instead of speaking in a way thta may G-d forbid, turn someone away from frumkiet.

  • SefardicMiami March 29, 2009, 12:13 PM

    This is the result of Chasidut… An additional wall built around something (Judaism)that is already difficult to live, especially in a secular world. I have been reading the posts of others in blogs such as Hasid and Heretic, and it is really disheartening to see the results. Limiting what can be read, not being able to watch TV, being “spied” on by your neighbors etc.. only makes the illicit only more desirable.

  • Yossi G. March 30, 2009, 8:16 AM

    I find it fascinating that dozens of people found the time and energy to comment on this, and so few wrote anything about the chilul Hashem ,of say, Pinter, Rubashkin, or the Spinka Rebbe, or the like.

    Why so fast to condemn an aveira that hurts no one and so slow to comment on a major public aveira?

  • Mark March 30, 2009, 8:22 AM

    so few wrote anything about the chilul Hashem ,of say, Pinter, Rubashkin, or the Spinka Rebbe, or the like.

    Why? Do/did they go on tefillin dates?

    In a discussion about tefillin dates, we will discuss just that. In a discussion about ganovim, we will discuss them.

  • majorfutz March 30, 2009, 4:31 PM

    I don’t know. Something about guys bringing leather straps on a date usually doesn’t translate into an something holy. Shmuely & Miriam, anyone?

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