Why on earth a milk company would bother to put 4 hechsherim (kosher certifications) on their packaging is beyond me. But Machmirim (what a name) is a new cholov yisroel milk company that broke an official Guinness Book world record by placing 4 different kosher certifications on their milk cartons. This beat out the old record which was 4 but disqualified because two of them were from different CRC agencies and that was deemed to not actually be 4 distinct certifications.
With a name like Machmirim I can only guess that the goal of this milk company is to further the gap between those who are frum and those who are frummer than you. Shuls and Yeshivos requiring that their members families only use products with multiple kosher certifications are popping up everywhere to try and insulate their communities against the treife foods that organizations like the OU and OK certify.
Rumors of Oreo Cookie and Fruit Rollup burnings have been awash in the kasharus industry, on grounds that these are not kosher enough due to their one hechsher packaging.
“We are so excited that Machmirim has taken a much needed step to protect us from the goyim and people less frum then us” said Rivky I’m frummer than you Horrowitz of Borough Park and summer resident of Lakewood, when we spoke to her as she piled he 15 kids into the back seat of her falling apart chevy caprice wagon with the fake wood paneling. She also mentioned that the days are over when products have just 3 hechsherim allowing products with such goyishe marketing lines like “Enlarged to show texture.”
Others were disturbed by the move, due simply to the lack of money in frum households. “How will we be able to keep up with the Rabinowitzes?” quipped one man who wished to remain anonymous for fear of cherem. “First they make glatt into halacha even though its a chumra, then they expect us to pay crazy tuition prices and now they expect us to cover the cost of extra unneeded hashagachos.” When will the madness end indeed?
Rabbonim cheered the event which marked a significant increase in many of their salaries simply because other companies want to break the world record and at the same time be as frum as Machmirim Milk. How anyone can be as frum as someone with a name like Machmirim is beyond me, but such names like “Your meat is chazer because it has only 3 hechserim” were deemed to be a little harsh.
As much as I wish I were joking – Machmirim is a real milk company that has 4 hechsherim – Matzav has the story – heres an excerpt:
“Machmirim, whose slogan is “Anachnu Machmirim Bnei Machmirim,” is actually under four hashgachos – the Vaad Hakashrus of Skver, Khal Adath Jeshurun (KAJ), the Nirbater Rov (Rav Aharon Teitelbaum), and the Orthodox Union (OU).
Machmirim is located in Rutherford, NJ, and is expected to pump new life into the cholov Yisroel dairy, launching many new products and significantly upgrading the quality of existing products.”
Hat tip to Chaim Rubin for alerting me to this craziness
Other similar posts:
This subway is frummer then all the others
Tznius police want separate grocery lines
-->
{ 40 comments… read them below or add one }
And to think I thought I was lactose intolerant!!
Dude that is smart very smart
You guys are all mamesh goyyim!!!! My milk is the only true chalov yisroel milk in the world. I make sure that each and every one of my milk cows undergoes a true and proper conversion al pi bes din to become a valid ger and thus become part of klal yisroel. Thus we have true cholov yisroel.
… or would that be sheep?
Unfortunately, it’s only 3; ou is treif.
veebee, I was going to point that out. This is simply a case of treifus masquerading as machmir milk, and I advise the Gedoley Hador to ban this milk IMMEDIATELY before countless yiddishe neshamos are corrupted forever by this nivailus.
OU is treife unless accompanied by a frummer organization because they would never join with a treife company.
You guys are a bunch of goyim if you drink this milk. Unless there was always a choshiveh rav watching over the milk from cows tits until your mouth, it is treif. Do you trust the truck driver to not add pork to the milk? how about the lowly paid person stocking the fridge in your supermarket, do you trust them not to add pork to your milk?
I am in the process of opening up a company that always has a jewish guy with a beard that everyone will refer to as “rabbi” watching over every drop of milk until you add it to your shopping cart (we will assume you keep it in a locked fridge in your house that only you have the key to to make sure no one sneaks into your house and adds pork). You can pre-order a half gallon of milk for 3 easy payments of $19.99 and we will let you know when you can pick it up. I know, it costs a little more than the regular treif milk you have now, but can you really put a price on olam habah???
drink rice, almond or soy milk…
Heshy,
You did a great job with this post as always. I was wondering how long it will take you to catch on to this.
I would like to know if I drink milk that only contains three hechsherim but there’s a rabbi supervising me while I drink it, can I still consider myself ‘MACHMIRIM BNEI MACHMIRIM’?
Mishegoyim binei mishegoyim is more like it. I blogged about this yesterday, the craziness is getting crazier.
OK, now for an interesting side aspect, which will prove that these guys and all other Jewish milk producers are “thieves”:
Rambam brings down that when a universal measure is switched by a given county, it is forbidden to use that measure to buy or sell.
So, as the rest of the world uses the imperial gallon and these US based producers use US Gallons, they are ripping every buyer by one 6th, thereby making liable to return the money or give extra milk to each person that ever bought any milk from them.
Furthermore, when they overcharge and gouge the market, Beth Din is supposed to correct them, even they have to beat them with a stick.
Take that to the mashgiach.
What cracks me up is that the people who are mamish machmir cholav yisrael keepers, don’t have thier food guarded in their own home. I mean, the husband learns all day and the wife works full time as a teacher or therapist. So, who watches the kids but an underpaid goy, usually Jamaican, sometimes Spanish. So, while they have to have this chumra milk, they do nothing to guard it and the kitchen where they eat. Even if this Jamaican nanny “knows” kosher, even if she’s sworn not to cook with out a Jew watching over her, don’t you think she gets sick of bringing a cold lunch to work day after day? Maybe what she really wants for lunch is a nice hot ham and cheese sandwich one day. So, she cooks it where else but your oven or your microwave. Do you think she would tell you so you can kasher it? Nope.
Besides which this fear that someone puts pig milk into the milk is such a non-issue. If the farmer did it, the one sixtieth law would kick in as it would get mixed over and over again with cow’s milk in the factory. Most dairy farmers don’t even own pig, btw. As someone who had an aunt with a dairy farm growing up, I’m telling you it’s the biggest schtus.
Shomer cholav stam and proud of it.
Here’s Mordechai ben David singing “anachnu bnei ma’ameinim” (we are believers):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sX2OeVrbdUs
Maybe it should be this company’s commercial? Fine, it’s not Anachnu B’nei Machmeirim (“we are stringent”), but according to this company, if you’re not machmir, you’re not ma’amin. (bumper sticker slogan alert!)
I don’t think anyone was ever worried about pig milk, it was more likely, horse, donkey or camel milk they had in mind.
Anyway, there are heterim for non C.Y. milk, that is why all these hechshers get away with certifying something and marking D next to it.
Does D stand for disclaimer?
PS. The one sixtieth law is only when something got mixed in by accident, not if it was done on purpose.
WIC pays for it all. The Frummy frums all know how to milk the system. Your tax dollars at work to pay for all 4 of their chumras only in America
One of my other points was that the odds that someone is really mixing in another kind of milk are really so slim. I mean the milk goes straight from the cows to a vat the size of a room. When the truck comes, they take directly from the vat. It’s next to impossible to add to the vat except through the regular routing system set up for the milk. There’s a tap on the side of the vat for the farmer to take for their own use. This is a small dairy farm and 20 years ago. All of this stuff is so mechanized…. really. Besides, dairy farmers usually own cows and maybe some barn cats and that’s it.
When’s the last time you’ve seen a camel in the states? How about a donkey? I’ll admit there are horses but, usally they are at stables not dairy farms. Even raising cattle for meat versus dairy cow aren’t on the same farms. Except when cows are done they go for hamburger meat because the meat doesn’t have the right consistency for anything else. Producing so much milk makes the meat from the cow a lower grade.
PHIL:
“there are heterim for non C.Y. milk”
i know what you mean, but just to be technical, there are no heterim for non-CY milk. the heter assumes that all milk produced in the US has a default status of CY. one is never permitted to drink chalav stam/akum.
HESH:
i know you are joking around here, but this CY issue pisses me off because my son’s school does not cater to CY families yet it is CY because of brooklyn
Lion I am only half joking around – I am actually mocking it semi seriously because its pathetic and shows that our priorities are all screwed up.
MbA: CY has truly become an issue that people have raised to such levels that would have been impossible for Chazal to keep and have extended the gezera way beyond it’s intention. Even if you still hold by it for milk there are so many other levels…
For everyone: The best article on CY put together is by Rabbi Avraham Chaim Bloomenstiel:
Part 1: http://www.sfasblog.com/2008/04/chalav-yisroel-background-and.html
Part 2: http://www.sfasblog.com/2008/04/chalav-yisroel-background-and_30.html
Part 3: http://www.sfasblog.com/2008/05/chalav-yisroel-background-and.html
Lion / SF2k1,
Technically, the heter has replaced Jewish mashgichim with the USDA. Does that actually make the milk CY? Definitely not. Still, it has been ruled acceptable by the authorities, so we are allowed to drink it.
Blanket heterim can also work against the halacha, for example with fish. The OU relies on a Tuna heter given by R. Soloveitchik in the 50s or 60s. The heter was very specific to Tuna production methods, but the OU still continues to apply that heter to all fish processing today, even though they might have nothing to do with the heter.
Most major hechsherim disagree with this, that is why machmir people won’t eat OU certified Tuna and other fish fillets which come without the skin.
Another similar area is alcohol. People will drink anything they have seen others drink and assume it’s automatically kosher. Some might substitue the grain with grape, depending on what’s being produced. There is even a heter from R. Moshe Feinstein zl to drink single malt aged in sherry or port casks.
Obviously, a single malt or pure agave has to remain just that for fear of losing reputation that took hundreds of years to build, so the argument rages on.
It all comes down to trusting that the fear of the ruling authority combined with the non profitability of substituting one product with another as a way to replace rabinnic supervision.
In some cases, such as the USDA with milk, or Mexican authorities with strict teqila control, there are less chances of non kosher ingredients being mixed in than a fish processor in Chile or an arak producer in Lebanon.
As we can’t be expected to milk our own cows or distill our own booze, we rely on recognized organizations to do this for us. They have the manpower, technology and money to do their work, in the long run, if they cheat or fool the public, or neglect to do their jobs properly, they will be the ones held responsible.
TO PHIL.
TIME TO GET YOUR KID INTO A JEWISH SCHOOL!!!!!!
Justme,
?????, they’re all in Jewish schools, what does that have to do with the post?
phil,
phil, if you sent them to jewish schools they whould have cy milk.
Justme,
You totally lost me one this one. They ARE in Jewish school which doesn’t serve any milk, and DO drink CY milk at home.
What does anyof this have to do with my kids in the first place? I never mentioned anything about them in any of these posts…
Phil I think they mean that you may be too smart and rub off on the children so its time to get them into Jewish school so they can be dumbed down.
PHIL:
it’s been a long time since i saw it inside, but as far as i remember there is no heter for cholov stam. in the US yedi’ah is considered re’iyah.
I guess this explains why kosher milk and cheese is so expensive – we aren’t just paying for one no-show mashgiach’s summer vacation, we’re paying for four of them.
What a scam.
all i know id that the price of milk is not $1.00 less that 2 months ago, YES $1.00 less,
Golden Flow and New Square dropeed the price before Machmirim got on the shelf, More Brand More Supervisions is good for the consumers, “a real Machmir and a big Mitzvah, they should change the name to “Mitzvah” bring pricing down!!!
After the Rubashkins (gonif/scum that ran the big kosher meat plant) anything goes.
After the Rubashkins (gonif/scum that ran the big kosher meat plant) anything goes.
What do you mean by this? Are you saying that just because one guy is a gonnif that all of them are?
Heshy,
Priorities screwed up like my comment number 16 describes.
Mechel,
ALL milk prices went down. The price of cholav stam went down about a dollar, too. Tomatos are also down. I think with this economy people opted out of overpriced items so if they didn’t lower the price, it would go bad altogether, so, they decided to recover something. That’s what I think.
Well, I asked my rabbi with the ginormous beard what he thought of this machmirim milk. He hadn’t heard of it so, I told him about it. So, he thinks it’s a marketing ploy Orthodox Jewish style because this one won’t drink that ones milk and so on. The name further adds to the marketing. One hecsher is good enough.
Another interesting semi-related tidbit, I happen to ask the lady in Boro Park that I know if they are shomer CY, expecting her to be. However, she actually prefers the OU-D because she’s not fond of the hasidic hecshers.
Although, I don’t know if anyone’s going to read this comment because you put up like a GAZILLION posts today, Heshy. Next time, why don’t you bank a couple so that if you get busy, you have some reserves? Especially right now, you’re posting a lot and people are busy with Pesach prep and don’t have time to read everything.
Another interesting semi-related tidbit, I happen to ask the lady in Boro Park that I know if they are shomer CY, expecting her to be. However, she actually prefers the OU-D because she’s not fond of the hasidic hecshers.
This is actually more common than you would think (including much of my family). In general, we know the OU, and we know it to be a generally reliable kashrut organization. The problem with all the smaller chassidish kashrut organizations is that we have no real idea, many of them consist of a single person, or a small group of people loyal to a particular rav, and unless a group of people know that person or rav well, there is no good way to decide who to rely on for kashrut supervision. Therefore OU (and chaf-K, and Star-K, and OK, etc) are more likely to be relied upon.
Michal bas Avraham,
Your anecdote in #12 is hilarious. You of course assume that no one would notice the smell? Or maybe you forgot the part about spraying the room with Febreze after heating up the ham & cheese sandwich?
Phil
Re: #11, whats this “rest of the world” you are talking about? AFAIK only the UK uses gallons, everyone else uses the metric system.
Michal,
Gallons don’t exist in the Metric system, we use liters, as does the rest of the civilized world except for the US. We use kilometers and kilograms, and celcius as well, although many people here use list lbs and KGs when selling food, it makes it look cheaper, as the KG is 2.2046 lbs.
However, when UK commonwealth countries and Europeans refer to gallons, we refer to the imperial gallon which is roughly 4.7 liters, the US gallon is roughly 3.8 liters.
Why any country would not choose the metric system is beyond me, it’s so simple:
Distance is measured in meters, so 1 kilometer is 1000 meters, while one milimeter is 1/1000 of a meter.
Same rules apply to dry weight, which is measured in grams, fluid weight which is measured in liters.
Temperature is determined by the celcius scale, 0 = freezing point of water, 100 = boiling point of water.
Class dismissed, take the rest of the day off.
FYI, the yogurt this company makes is really lousy.
Machmirim milk has an OU
Yes but the OU is not a heimishe hashgacha
When ‘dayanim’, ‘rabbis’ and false ‘mekubalim’ use the Torah for their own power and commercial profit, this behaviour is abhorrent.
No other ‘rabbi’ will ever act against another ‘rabbi’ – even when he knows his colleague is clearly desecrating the Torah. Each rabbi is only worried about losing his own position.
Therefore, the ‘rabbi’, ‘dayyan’ or false ‘mekubal’ (‘kabbalist’) will never effect justice. And he will never truly stand for the Torah or the Honour of Hashem. His pocket will always prevail.
The Torah must never be used for commercial gain and profit. Amm israel can only be lead by those who have the necessary love and respect of Hashem and the Torah.
Any man who chooses to be a ‘rabbi’ (‘true teacher’ of Torah) or a ‘dayan’ (‘judge’), or a ‘mekubal’ (‘kabbalist’) should be doing so Voluntarily. Out of his pure love for Hashem and the Torah. And his Ahavat Yisrael.
If he refuses to do community work voluntarily, and wants and accepts payment for everything he does, such a man should not be heading a community. He should get a job and earn a living. He can collect milk bottles or clean the windows. That is what is called ‘earning a living’.
Torah is learned, studied and taught: out of Love. Voluntarily. But the ‘rabbis’ have turned the Torah into their ‘Profession’, from which they earn money.
We are commanded in the Shema to:
‘LOVE Hashem, your G-d, WITH ALL YOUR HEART, and with all your soul and with all your might.’
‘VE’AHAVTA et Hashem Elokecha BECHOL LEVAVECHA uvechol nafshecha uvechol meodecha.’ (Devarim, Vaethanan, 6:4-5)
Is the ordinary man or woman PAID to pray to Hashem, or to say some words of Torah? No. Has veshalom! But the rabbis are. These men can give ‘lovely’ shiurim that they have rehearsed. But they would not give a shiur without being paid for it.
The true hachamim and rabbis of old, all actually worked at proper jobs and professions.
Wake up! Even a little child could have worked this out. These salaried men can never truly stand for the Torah, because in a case of conflict between a correct course of action according to the Torah, and the rabbi or rav’s pocket – his pocket and position will always prevail.
Pirkei Avot: (2:2)
“Raban Gamliel beno shel Rabi Yehuda HaNassi omer: yafeh talmud Torah im derech eretz, sheyegiat shenaihem mashkachat avon. Vechol Torah she’ein imah melacha sofa betailah ve’goreret avon. Vechol haoskim im hatzibbur yiheyu imahem leShem Shamayim……”
“Rabban Gamliel, the son of Rabi Yehuda HaNassi, said: It is good to combine Torah study with a worldly occupation, for working at them both drives sin from the mind. All Torah without an occupation will in the end fail and lead to sin. And let all who work for the community do so for the sake of Heaven………”