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Passaic Bans Bat Mitzvahs

I have always wondered why the Chumra Patrol or Tznius Police never took on bat mitzvahs or shall I say bas mitzvahs. They are a form of unneeded celebration, and they allow women to have fun – and we all know that fun is untznius.

Well a fan from Passaic tells me that the local Bais Yaakov has essentially banned bat mitzvah parties. They haven’t banned them all the way, they just banned any of the girls from attending their classmates parties – relatives and family members are still allowed to attend, but thats like saying your fiance can come to your bachelor party.

Can someone please show me a 12 year old girl that would throw a party and not invite their friends?

Apparently some of the parties have gotten out of control – very ambiguous if you ask me – that could mean multiple things, in fact I have come up with a list.

Reasons to ban bat miztvah parties:

Just the name Bat is not frum it should say “bas”

There is no chiyuv to have a bat mitzvah and therefore it is bitul z’man

Guys were showing up at the parties (oh wait its the brother and her dad)

Naked pillow fights

I hear that KY jelly wrestling is big at Passaic Bat Mitzvahs and that is clearly untznius

Wait, are you saying that women were actually having fun – we teach a life of cooking, cleaning, and baby rearing for a reason (no fun for you)

First she wants a bat mitzvah then she wants to put on tefilin and a yarmulke – its just one step closer to feminism

What if they serve treife non-cholov yisroel products and some of the girls by accidentally eat it? That is a crisis in itself – forget about ruin the shidduch prospects

If they are partying at 12 what will they be doing at 19 when its time to have kids?

Passaic is known for its dearth of sociable activities and rumor has it that bat mitzvah parties were being crashed by the off the derech/yeshiva rebel crowd.

Dude did you hear about the Katz bat mitzvah tonight?

Yeh I hear the whole 7th grade bais yaakov class will be there.

What could be other reasons for banning of bat miztvahs?

{ 52 comments… add one }
  • Talmudist January 26, 2009, 8:15 PM

    Um, the fact that they are uplifting, and can provide young, impressionable girls with real chizzuk — they must therefore be stymied. I remember speaking (we’re talkin’ a real ‘toychein-filled’ vort here) at my sister’s bas mitzvah and how much she appreciated it. I’m glad she was twelve in nineteen-ninety-whatever. Geez…

    • Fantasys April 3, 2019, 7:49 AM

      Board members and residents raised concerns over the banquet hall, which will have a capacity of 100, but Seckler said that attendance for brises and bar or bat mitzvahs would be far less than that, and that such events would be limited to approximately five per year.

  • Tali January 26, 2009, 8:29 PM

    FS I have sneaking suspicion it has less to do with tznius and more to do with not sending mum and dad broke as they attempt to keep up with the Steins.
    These shindigs can cost thousands of dollars. Where I live its a status thing and girls from poor families end up feeling left out.
    Maybe thats what the good people of Passaic mean when they say “out of control”.
    If its just your family attending there is less pressure to impress and more focus on the things that matter.

  • Mark January 26, 2009, 8:37 PM

    If they are partying at 12 what will they be doing at 19 when its time to have kids?

    What do you mean 19??? 16 or 17!!!!

    In all seriousness, I would be glad if they banned both Bar and Bat Mitzvah celebrations (other than a small kiddush at shul) to prevent the malady of “keeping up with Cohens” and all those $10k and up celebrations. People seem to always forget that the root of the word Tzniut is (Tzanua, or modest), which means modesty, not only in dress, but in demeanor, and in displays of wealth as well.

  • Frum Satire January 26, 2009, 8:49 PM

    Mark I never thought of that – but I think the parents usually make parties to show off to other parents – 12 year old girls couldn’t tell if its a cheap party and by the way the ban is for in house parties IE if the girls invite kids over to their own homes- who can really spend that much on a house party.

  • Phil January 26, 2009, 8:53 PM

    I agree. The Bat mitzva thing is insane in posh circles. Some of my Toronto relatives made 2 bat mitzvahs over the past 5 years, both cost as much as small weddings, despite the fact that they weren’t even kosher. They have this weird “minhag” about the parents of the girl having to buy all the classmates fancy gifts too.

    As you can imagine, the Passaicites would cringe at the half naked 12 year old kids dancing to a band made of of shvartze hip hop dancers. Thank God the event had an open bar, my wife was designated driver too.

  • ouchy January 26, 2009, 8:57 PM

    Listen guys. It’s tough for me to really understand not being able to keep up because I grew up relatively comfortable my whole life. However, in life there are going to be many many things that one person can do better than the other, whether materially or spiritually etc.

    There are plenty of people who are better learners than me, or basketball players than me, does that mean we should shut down yeshivas and camps? I definitely understand the difference between my examples and the scenario of over-spending at bat mitzvah parties, however I think the communities should start teaching people that this is part of life, instead of trying to ban everything.

  • The Law January 26, 2009, 9:11 PM

    Baruch ata hashem elokeinu melech haolam shelo asani isha….

  • Arthur January 26, 2009, 9:22 PM

    I think that we should track this and see how long it takes to be accepted as holy writ in other cities in hareidei Judaism – this could be a sociological experiment.
    We should also track how long before the mothers of the daughters who go to this school in Passaic start to deny that they had Bat Mitzvahs…. A whole new area in Jewish Frummer Sociology.

  • Arthur January 26, 2009, 9:23 PM

    I think that we should track this and see how long it takes to be accepted as holy writ in other cities in hareidei Judaism – this could be a sociological experiment.
    We should also track how long before the mothers of the daughters who go to this school in Passaic start to deny that they had Bat Mitzvahs. A whole new area in Jewish Frummer Sociology.

  • passaic resident January 26, 2009, 9:54 PM

    I think there were other reasons involved.
    But none that you guys would understand.

  • Mikeinmidwood January 26, 2009, 10:05 PM

    Passaic resident

    You just tell, then well worry if we understood or not.

  • Left Brooklyn January 26, 2009, 10:09 PM

    So did they ban attending a bat mitzvah or a bas mitzvah. There is a difference.

  • Frum Satire January 26, 2009, 10:10 PM

    Yeh I love how people say we wouldn’t understand – you are not explaining nuclear physics here!

  • Ariella January 26, 2009, 10:15 PM

    Well, me and my sister never had such a party, but my parents spent big to have my brother’s bar Mitzvah in israel.

  • frum single female January 26, 2009, 10:25 PM

    if they are banning bas mitzvahs they should ban bar mitzvahs. next they will be banning weddings. soon there willbe a marriage crisis.

  • passaic resident January 26, 2009, 10:28 PM

    for one it is like Lakewood. No classmates allowed. But they do make a huge party for the girls and their mothers. Again, you are dealing with a BY mentality here, not one that is open minded.
    The issues they had were girls were having parties that were unacceptable to their standards.
    One offering non cholov yisroel food to those who eat only cholov yisroel is simply wrong.
    Taking girls to a movie when the school rule is no movies. Is simply defiant. Why do that to innocent girls? I know you can mock it and not believe in it, but why are you inviting 12 year old girls to a party and tell them “oh, the food isn’t cholov yisroel, but it’s kosher” to them it is like “come to my party, but you can’t eat” Why would 12 year old girls want to go to a party where they cannot eat?
    Doing things that are simply against school rules and where parents are unaware of what is happening is unfair to those who are going. Innocent girls are going to a party. When they show they find out that it is not so innocent.
    Again, these girls are 12.

  • Anita January 26, 2009, 11:13 PM

    passaic resident- Sorry to break it to you, but to ban bas mitzvahs because of cholov yisroal and movies is just nonsense.

    Prior to the bas mitzvah, it would be more accpetible if the community Rebbeim explained the obvious – tell the girls parents what you plan on feeding their daughters, and where you plan on taking them.

    When my sister had her entire class sleep over for her bas mitzvah we purposely bought cholov yisroal milk for the breakfast, had the girls parents ok the meat we used for shabbos, and my parents asked the girls what kind of movies they were allowed to watch (had them rented). Two girls called their parents because they weren’t sure.

    Its not rocket science.

    If the parents don’t trust their kids, you should teach trust in a community, not go around and ban everything.

  • Mikeinmidwood January 26, 2009, 11:22 PM

    Passaic Resident

    You are right, I don’t understand, the reasons you gave are horrible.

  • Jon the A January 27, 2009, 12:43 AM


    Excellent post. You can’t legislate against reality, and you can’t dictate human nature.

  • Sergeant J January 27, 2009, 4:37 AM

    I do enjoy the fact that you were spot on with a few of your reasons, and that they are still funny. Living slightly out of of the outskirts of the frum community, I can enjoy the humour of the methods and madness of certain Rabbinic authority dictations. I can even kind of appreciate the narrow-minded frustration of the folks acting like this should not even be questioned at all.

  • normal January 27, 2009, 9:19 AM

    I live in the Passaic area and we use the “other” school, so this is not a problem for us. I actually feel bad for the girls turning 12 whose sisters & friends got to have parties and now they can’t. From a few other things I have heard, the YKP school system is getting even more authoritarian than ever, and this is just the latest.

  • Anonymous January 27, 2009, 10:02 AM

    >>for one it is like Lakewood.

    Passaic is not Lakewood. Close to seventy percent of its charedi looking residents cannot even read hebrew. Its a place for poor people with a small-minded mentality.

    >>The issues they had were girls were having parties that were unacceptable to their standards.

    STANDARDS?!?! WHAT standards? These people don’t even come from Jewish homes. What do they know about Judaism to have standards?

  • Anonymous January 27, 2009, 10:03 AM

    >>From a few other things I have heard, the YKP school system is getting even more authoritarian than ever, and this is just the latest.

    A binch of imbeciles who think they know what they are doing. Its good they have competition. They need more.

  • Some thoughts January 27, 2009, 12:21 PM

    Most, and i said MOST, orthodox Bar Mitzvah’s arebasically a nice seuda to celebrate the Bochur of him entering the ul (yoke) of mitzvah’s. Its not just a party for the boy and his friends. I know how extravagant and fancy they have become, but in the Charedi community it is still centered around the BM boy becoming a bar chiyuve (someone who is liable for all his actions, hallachically). And when you attend one, that’s the setup of the evening.

    Bas Mitzvahs on the other hand, although it commemorates the same threshold she surpasses as a Bar mitzvah boy does, practically speaking its very hard to set it up, in a tzniusdike fashion (man, will i get bashed for this) as such an occasion. So although if you keep it to strictly immediate family, (as we do) it is possible to keep it tniusdik, once you make a big party out of it, naturally it is centered around the girl and her friends, and that is not how such an occasion should be celebrated.

    I am not from Passaic, but from my family and friends that live there, I understand that it is pretty much a very yeshivishe community, especially YKP. There is, however, a very big BT community, and a more modern community that has expanded to the Clifton area. So i think that is is just a very sincere effort on the community’s part to keep the level “yeshivishkiet” or “frumkiet” to that level.

  • normal January 27, 2009, 12:59 PM

    Some thoughts, stop defending, because from the main post it appears that even an all girls party, as long as the classmates are included, would be prohibited. Where is the tznius issue there?

    Anonymous, yes it’s good there is competition, but the competition ain’t great either.

  • Pops January 27, 2009, 1:43 PM

    Nothing good will come of this. My daughter’s school has set standards for Bas Mitzvahs (no males except for immediate family etc..) and most people adhere to them. Any specific concerns, are usually addressed individually by concernced parents to the host.

    Why take away all of the fun? We need to teach the kids that they can have fun in a kosher enviroment, so they don’t feel the need to go elsewhere.

  • Anonymous January 27, 2009, 5:49 PM

    >> So i think that is is just a very sincere effort on the communitys part to keep the level yeshivishkiet or frumkiet to that level.

    But they are not yeshivish–the ballei teshuva there (who make up the majority of the so-called Yeshivish community there) did not even attend yeshiva. They ought to be focusing on more substantive issues like, say, learning how to flipping read hebrew and become familiar enough with learning so that the shiurim are not on a high school level. The MO community there is far more advanced in frumkeit and in learning because they are the of the sincere, committed YU variety.

    Its a shame Passaic is such a dump–in ruchnius and in gashmius. Lamentably, my friends who live there (and cannot stop complaining about it) continue to do so because of its location and the fact that they cannot afford to live in New York. My more Yeshivish friends are in Lakewood, my wealthy, less Yeshivish friends live in the five towns, Flatbush or Queens.

    Face it: Passaic is for the left overs. Its a pathetic place.

    • Anonymous 2 April 25, 2019, 3:27 PM

      The one calling itself “Anonymous” is an ignoramus and an imbecile.

  • Michal bas Avraham January 27, 2009, 7:21 PM

    Anonymous who said:
    STANDARDS?!?! WHAT standards? These people dont even come from Jewish homes. What do they know about Judaism to have standards?

    Michal says, that is uber insulting to those of us religious Jews who didn’t come from a Jewish home. Just because someone isn’t raised with a standard doesn’t mean it doesn’t become their standard. Also, I read Hebrew.

    I think to say no friends is a little dictatarian. It’s still a girl’s birthday party. While inviting every girl in the grade might be ridiculous, this way she can’t even invite her best friend over. Would have been so horrible to just put a limit of say 5 classmates on it?

  • Michal bas Avraham January 27, 2009, 7:23 PM

    I live in Queens.

  • Arthur January 27, 2009, 7:41 PM

    Bottom line
    the ban is a negative that also has nothing to do with yehadut.

    instead of a ban why not encourage people to have more modest displays or perhaps even having teamed events with a family that is less fortunate, now that would be something to behold in passiac, a frummer then thou organization forcing all those chumra of the month jews to do something positive and uplifting!

  • normal January 27, 2009, 10:53 PM

    Well, Hesh, you are behind the times, because I just checked with my little preteen daughters (who, let me remind everyone, go to the “other” school), and they have known about this through their friends since the beginning of the school year. They said the girls are mad. The lame-o excuse given, to the girls I guess, is that the grade is very big (around 80 girls), and “some people don’t invite the whole grade and then people feel bad.”

    The unfortunate thing about Passaic is that the “other” school (which is actually how people refer to it) is likely to follow; even though it schizophrenically follows some MO tenets, it is chareidi-wannabe, not least because it wants to attract the chareidim to boost its sagging enrollment.

    Passaic rant: Someone actually walked up to one of my friends and said, “How does is feel knowing that you send your kid to a school that most people in town don’t go to?”

    And what Anonymous says about our town is mostly true; however, some of us live here for the great commute. Bus ride to midtown is 20 minutes, 30 minutes with traffic.

  • G*3 January 27, 2009, 11:37 PM

    Can you imagine a boy’s school doing this? I know of yeshivos that have a curfew for students attending bar mitzvahs, but I don’t think they would ban attending all together. Of course, you have to remember that in yeshivish circles, bas mitzvahs don’t qualify as real simchas. A simcha is a bris, bar mitzvah, or wedding (and wedding-related parties). Given that the bas mitzvah is just a birthday party, banning it isn’t really a big deal.

  • Mordechai Milotay January 28, 2009, 12:33 AM

    This sort of bone headed chumra is exactly why we live not only on the other coast, but in fact miles off the coast on a large island wedged between Washington state & the Canadian mainland. While there is nowhere (yet) for pizza motzei Shabbos, the air is clean, no one tries to mug you while walking through the frum hood, and we’re pretty accepting of any hashkafa. We have organic beef & lamb (Lubavitch shechita), and it almost never snows. And most importantly no kids give you the Monsey stare for wearing a striped shirt to shul, although I do get asked if they can pet my streimel.

  • s(b.) January 28, 2009, 3:15 AM

    When my sister was in snoop frummy frum school where chalov yisrael was what the kids drank, my dad and stepmother only kept CY milk in the house; maybe they still do (I haven’t checked their milk lately), so if little chavi down the street or from the next town came over to play, she could have milk with her cookies at their house, no problem. I’d hope most parents who send their kids to schools where CY is the norm do the same for the sake of their kids’ friendships.

    Mordechai, if you name that island, I bet Hesh will want to visit there, if he hasn’t, already. It sounds nice. (but probably cold in winter)

  • Anonymous January 28, 2009, 10:44 AM

    >>Michal says, that is uber insulting to those of us religious Jews who didnt come from a Jewish home. Just because someone isnt raised with a standard doesnt mean it doesnt become their standard. Also, I read Hebrew.

    For one to embrace the standards of learned talmidei chachomim one must be a learned talmid chochom. You have a very serious advantage over the Passaic ballei teshuva: you can read. For ignorant illiterate individuals to embrace less crucial, transparent manifestations of charedi beliefs is insulting to the more genuine people who live there, and down right damaging for all who live in Passaic.

    If they could afford better Rabbonim to change the place around, they would be taught better.

    I am glad that those who live in Passaic acknowledged the fundamental truth to my posts. I lived there for close to three years while I was in school. It is a great place to be your own man–to learn on your own, etc. But its not a place for someone who actually learned in Yeshiva (unless you went to YU. As I wrote earlier, the modern orthodox community there is very impressive).

  • Give it Up January 28, 2009, 12:09 PM

    I understand that girls are upset by the ban of Bas Mitzvah parties. Lakewood banned this years ago.
    Complaining about how modern or how BT passaic is… then explain why they are opening a Yiddish speaking Cheder here under the Lakewood cheder. There seems to be a demand for this type of thing.

    To answer above mentioned that the school should give guidlines… there are parents who are in school, who simply do not care what the school has to say. If the school has a rule of no movies…they will still take their kids to the movies. Not only that, but they took the classmates as well. Can’t blame the school on that one..They had no idea.

    I did not know they wanted the girls to invite the entire grade, even if they don’t know the entire grade. I wonder how the boys will feel about that when the current pre1a boys have 100 kids in the grade.

    It is the parents fault for this and the school is doing their best they can in this situation.

  • Anonymous January 28, 2009, 12:26 PM

    >>Complaining about how modern or how BT passaic is then explain why they are opening a Yiddish speaking Cheder here under the Lakewood cheder. There seems to be a demand for this type of thing.

    There is no demand for such a thing. Its just a bunch of BTs who need to show how charedi they are. Go to the individuals who want a yiddish speaking cheder–open a chumash and ask them to read three pesukim. They cannot do it. Did you know that the largest charedi shul in passaic has a policy that only those who can pronounce hebrew can daven for the amud? Have you ever heard of any shul enforcing such a requirement? No? That’s because you have not been to a shul with a membership of over 70% ballei teshuva. And btw, since you appear to be uneducated about this issue: the majority of litvishe elementary schools in Lakewood do not teach in Yiddish. The bores of Passaic is doing this because they (1) don’t know this and (2) are attempting to fill the void in their educational background. It does not suggest they are yeshivish, obviously, as they (1) never learned in one (2) cannot learn in one and (3) cannot even read.

    And that brings us to an interesting point: How could ballei teshuva not know how to pronounce read or translate basic hebrew? What kind of bt yeshivos have they attended.

  • Gila January 28, 2009, 3:11 PM

    I once happened to mention, in passing, on the “Coffee Room” section of the Yeshiva World News website that my Bat Mitzvah parsha is Yitro. One user responded by asking why on earth I know what my “bat mitzvah” portion is and why on earth I write with a “sephardic accent”. I had a good laugh when I read it.

    As was mentioned, Bat Mitzvahs celebrate a girl’s becoming chayav mitzvot. So, yes, such a celebration is “centered around the girl”, and her friends should be there to celebrate with her. Assuming everyone is wearing modest clothing, what’s “untzniusdike” about that?

  • Arthur January 28, 2009, 3:13 PM

    but gila dont you get it

    in passiac all they want from women is children and well of course rich parents so they can sit and learn all day

  • Anonymous February 27, 2009, 2:14 PM

    so sweet 16’s are alright?

  • s(b.) February 27, 2009, 2:31 PM

    I have a really stupid question. Why would anyone who is not at least learning how to read Hebrew (or already knows how to read Hebrew) want to become a BT? As a woman, if you can’t read Hebrew, what else is there to do but get knocked up and bake challah? I’m being ridiculous, and there’s tons to learn that’s printed in English, these days, but, seriously, reading Hebrew’s real handy for when you’re in shul and stuff. I realize that Artscroll makes siddurim with transliteration, but I don’t think their intention was to cultivate a lack of Hebrew literacy, when they published it. How will these people help their kids with their Hebrew homework?

  • Sonofagun March 31, 2009, 3:55 PM

    Hello good sir i found this blog on google I was actually looking for a forum where Jews of Passaic have discussions (i live in passaic)can you help me find one. If you know of any email me at Superusa02@aol.com

  • Anonymous December 9, 2009, 5:36 AM

    Seriously, the real reason is in the first couple of posts. Every dollar you spend on a party is a dollar less that the school can milk out of your pocket for itself. I have it on good authority that the school tried to stop someone from making a BAR mitzvah kiddush in his shul (this is an individual, not a general ban) on the grounds that he should better give the money to the school than use it to feed a shul full of people who have lunch waiting for them at home anyway 🙂

  • anonymous February 9, 2010, 12:37 PM

    We recently moved to Passaic-about a year ago- we came from a much more MO community where we had lived for nearly 10 years. We made the decision to move to Passaic because we thought there would be more people here that had a serious commitment to learning, and also since it was a less wealthy community the materialism (which is so over-the-top where we had come from) would be less. We make a very good living, but we never have found the need to knock down our house to build a mansion with a three car garage as is so common in such communities. Needless to say, some of the kids in the MO community were wearing really skimpy clothes in the summer also. I have no problems with short sleeves for girls, but short shorts and tank tops for teenagers was a little too much to the left for us. Boy, have we taken the bad with the good here. We did get the things I mentioned above- the learning and the less materialistic crowd. However, naive as we were, the school system here- we use YKP- is so authoritarian that it is affecting our basic lifestyle. Not only did we have to sign a paper at the school stating we had no television in our home, but we had to agree to not let our daughters (read: Mom too- she sets the example, remember) wear nail polish, take Karate (our sons too for this), watch videos, or various other no-no’s. They also man-handle you regarding a yearly “Dangers of the Internet” lecture. A letter goes out every year that states your children can not register for the next shool year unless at least one parent comes to this meeting. And they take attendance. It is not optional- you must attend this meeting. Chalev Yisroel is required inside the school if you send Dairy in, and they will confiscate items from children. My son was horrified as the Rebbe lifted his Pringle can right out of his hand in front of his friends and told him it was not allowed. We do not keep Chalev Yisroel at home and I do pack their lunches personally and make sure there is no OUD stuff going out , and once in a while something slips by me, but to blatantly grab it from him was not right. Why don’t they just make a rule that nobody can trade lunches? And, isn’t OUD kosher? How can something not be Kosher enough? If a kid ate his Dairy Pringles by accident,what would be so wrong? They ARE kosher! They have a very fine hechsher. Also, the guidelines sent home at the beginning of the school year concerning school lunches state that you are PROHIBITED from sending in any snacks for your sons except Pretzels and Popcorn (and fruits and veggies of course) and they WILL confiscate any cookies and the like. They say the boys are not eating healthy enough and they are addressing a National problem. Meanwhile, my son “wins” a Coke every week from Rebbe (without my permission of course) and the boys collect points for good Davening during class which they redeem at Rebbe’s “Candy Store”? What a JOKE!!

    Now to the Bas Mitzvah thing. My opinion is that if they say the party is not Tznius for the girls, then they need to do the same for the boys. Tznius is tznius. Why aren’t the boys held to this level? When I recently heard that the girls are prohibited from having a bas mitzvah party, I cringed. It is just one more reason to feel like Big Brother is watching you. Everything here is all about the men and the boys. My sons can go to Father/Son learning where there are snacks or meals even, and really get some good learning in, but for the girls there is Ateres groups. This may as well be called Tznius training, because as far as I am concerned this is all they care the girls learn about. My 7 year old came home once from such a meeting smiling, sucking a lollipop saying “We learned that even your seatbelt cannot save you in a car accident if you are not dressed Tzniusdik” Thanks, Passaic. I want to move back to our previous community. At least the school doesn’t have as much control over things.

  • Proud passaicer December 29, 2011, 3:42 PM

    Not that anyone is reading this 2 years later but I just want to stand up for my hometown here. I grew up in Passaic before Bas Mitzvahs were banned and I was just as upset as the next person when they were banned. Looking back however, I have realized there is a lot of wisdom in it. I have friends who were hurt that they were not invited to parties (and that was when there was only 40 of us.) Also, not all of the parties were in peoples’ houses and some were bordering out-of-control.
    Now about Passaic in general, I love it. We are not perfect; but then again, who is? I, along with all the other girls my age (whether they went to my school or the “other” school-which is not intended to imply anything) all developed into wonderful, solid girls. I’m very proud of Passaic, regardless of what anyone else thinks.

  • golda May 30, 2012, 12:56 PM

    get out of galus people~! you are all crazy~
    why are you even entertaining these discussions
    move to israel and know what it means to be a bat mitzvah~
    im disgusted at the waste of time that went into this thread~
    i was googling for minhagim on bat mitzvah… and got this ranting~ ! ugh~


  • none April 18, 2015, 8:58 AM


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