The Treife Post

I was talking with my BT friend and she told me she used to go to Wendys and bench afterwards, she would also bring hot pockets with meat and cheese in them to school for lunch and she would bench as well.

I found this kind of interesting since I myself have experienced some treife episodes in which I debated whether to say a bracha or not, considering the fact that the food I was eating may have been kosher- sort of. I remember eating at Olive Garden which is actually the last time I ate treife and I totally said a shehacol because I wasn’t really so sure it was treife- I mean what’s in bread or salad, but the eggplant parm was definitely not too kosher.

Then these random thoughts got me thinking to Skittles, I think that the only thing I miss from my treife eating youth is skittles, this may be because we kept kosher but ate milchigs out only as a treat during our ski trips to Vermont, or that I didn’t actually start worrying about kosher candy until someone told me Skittles were made with bug parts or juice.

I do remember when I was 8th grade I found this Chinese place down the block from me with a $4.95 lunch special, I would tell my friends it was from the kosher place – if they would have actually cared – I am sure they could have realized the price discrepancy, but we were a bunch of kids who really didn’t care.

Then in high school I used to go to Bruegers Bagels because we had no kosher places to eat. I just really needed some sort of regular outlet, I just hate the feeling of not being able to eat anywhere, I think that’s one of the reasons that many people eat non-kosher besides for the fact that many people feel that nothing could be wrong with salads or bread.

If you could eat any treife food what would you eat?

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Comments on this entry are closed.

  • ipitythefoo

    I think that in the depths of my soul all the non-kosher food i’ve eaten has become some bubbling spiritual acid that makes doing the right thing when I walk by non-kosher joint hurt a little, knowing that I’ve been there – ate that.

    But it also feels especially good. hmmm.

    kosherexia?

  • http:www.frumlibrarian.blogspot.com Frum Librarian

    Always wanted to try bacon and shrimp. Cheeseburgers look pretty nasty to me. Truthfully, I don’t find keeping kosher that difficult except when I NEED ice cream and I just had some chicken.

  • Anonymous

    am i such a prude that i have no desire for treif?

    although, i find that over the past few years my ta’avah for food has waned in general…

    i remember the good old days when i would gurgle ala homer simpson at the thought of ben & jerrys.

    mmhhmhmm….chunky monkey…

  • http://freshwater-phil.blogspot.com Phil

    Benchting after Wendy’s, that’s pretty extreme BT. Some foods such as bagels would inherently be kosher, if not for the utensiles used to make treif sandwiches, etc.

    Frum Librarian, you think cheeseburgers are nasty yet crave bacon and shrimp? You can’t be serious. That’s like eating fishing bait instead of steak. Ditto for Chinese food in MHO.

  • http://www.mazeartist.com Sergey Kadinsky

    My pre-observant days included pork- When by dad barbecued it, it tasted like any other meat. So there’s not mch to look forward to.

    Some candy and yogurts include carmine- a bug-based food coloring agent. Since becoming observant, I only east yogurts with a hashgacha. An “English letter K” is not enough, unless my rav says it is. Some “English letter-K” yogurts write “kosher gelatin” on their ingredient list, but who supervised it?

  • A23

    I seriously cannot think of anything treif that I would want to eat. Maybe food like steak and whatever at treif restaurants, but the typical treif stuff (lobster, pork, milk+meat) give me no taivos.

  • http://JoeFlix.blogspot.com JoeFlix

    If I could make one thing kosher, it would Totally be Panera Bread. I was doing alot of business with them, and how I wish I could eat their good stuff.

    Second place would go to a dinner at Peter Luger.

  • Jelen

    totally feel you on the skittles thing. they’re actually full of gelatin and i miss them so so much. i used to sneak to 7-11 and buy skittles, pop tarts, and bubble yum and keep it in a shoe box under my bed. i did find out in a high school halacha class that you should definitely not be saying any kind of bracha on food that MIGHT be nonkosher. but at school i would sometimes open my philly cream cheese, say my shehacol and take a lick….then eat the rest of my pseudo-treif milchig dining hall meal.

  • http://www.frumsatire.net Frum Satire

    Just the ability to eat in a regular decently priced outdoor cafe in Paris would be nice

  • http://www.youtube.com/adamjayleventhal Adam

    shrimp was my favorite food growing up, i gave it up in around fifth grade!

  • Eitan

    I’m a BT Chabadnik – and I have no desire for pork or crab or anything – but I reeeally miss clam chowder. That’s the one treif thing I still have cravings for, unsatisfiable cravings.

    That and like treife restaurant steak and the like.

  • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jewish_Conversion_Orthodox/ Michal bas Avraham

    Phil,
    I agree, bacon is like eating grease… ew! Bagels could be toasted on a griddle where they fry bacon…

    Not all rabbis hold that you don’t say a blessing on treif. I heard that early in my conversion, I was thinking “what?” I was already kosher by the time I learned about brachos (a year into my conversion, what does that say about my first conversion rabbi who worked with me a YEAR and didn’t teach me this?)

    chicken codon bleu-that’s my traif that I miss dearly. I might try to make it with turkey and soy cheese.

  • Former Teacher

    Michal Bas Avraham,

    How about the recipe for the rest of us – by the way, most soy cheese is dairy, so maybe could we try real cheese with soy turkey instead?

  • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jewish_Conversion_Orthodox/ Michal bas Avraham

    OY!
    No, the cheese has to be parve. Chicken cordon bleu is normally chicken and ham with (gooey warm…) cheese on it. TWO meats…

  • http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Jewish_Conversion_Orthodox/ Michal bas Avraham

    Arby’s actually makes a chicken cordon bleu with Roast beef so, the subsituting the ham for something is not so, so bad.

  • http://www.frumsatire.net Frum Satire

    Meat and cheese is just gross

  • tesyaa

    My boss sat down at his desk with his Boston chicken and told me, in all seriousness, that if I would ever be tempted to eat treife, I should not go for the Boston chicken, since it’s just not worth it.

  • jesse

    I have a lot of treif cravings. For me its not so much the meat and cheese, or shrimp or pork. It is usually the more of the want for convince of fast food. But since I am a BT, i still have some want for shalom bayis so i will still hang around my family when they eat trief, or Ill have a drink with them at a trief resturant (i know its not great but, my family thinks I am crazy enough as it is). So for me its the worst when I am around my family and they eat trief, and im not even hungry. Even though I have a tevya for it, i wont eat it. But I guess its a good victory to have over the yazter hora, when you have trief infront of you, and then you dont eat it. That makes it feel good.

  • http://shesnamelessfaceless.blogspot.com Nameless Faceless

    Yoghurt in soup. Or tzatziki sauce on lamb. Oysters constantly, lots of seafood actually. Sometimes I’ll still do milchigs out, but that’s only when it really, really cannot be avoided and I’m with like, my sister (who secretly would love to see me eat a Baconator again.) Mostly its not specific foods, just the whole waiting-six-hours/really-having-to-think-about-what-you’re-eating deal that gets me.

    Holy crap, I just made myself HUNGRY.

  • jesse

    The last story about the baconator, reminded me of something that my friends and I did three years ago. For some of you who dont know, wendy’s will let you add one extra beef patty, and a slice of cheese for an extra dollar. so we went into there and ask for the 3 burger with cheese burger, and then asked for one slice of beef extra for each three burgers already. so it was 6 hamburgers and 6 pieces of cheese. I think that was pretty interesting, and it was also 2200 calories including the coke and fries.

  • http://shesnamelessfaceless.blogspot.com Nameless Faceless

    Jesse. What you just did is like emptying out a bottle of water in front of a man dying of thirst. Where were you two years ago when I could have actually *used* this information? Tease…. :)

  • jesse

    lol….it was funny we tired to order it at the drive through. and they didnt understand. i was 3X2 = 6 burgers thats we want. so we had to go in and tell them we had 4 guys who wanted one, so you should put 24 burgers on the grill. i thought i was going to have a heart attack. but at least the coke and fried they gave to us for free.

  • http://thetreifepost afloydchick

    i used to eat these black licorice candies made from gelatin. i loved them. i see them all the time at shoprite n i stare longingly at them.

  • Chris_B

    “Or tzatziki sauce on lamb”

    Dang it! A few years ago, a greek place finally opened here in Tokyo and I was so happy that I could eat that kind of thing again since I missed it from when I lived in NYC. Have not been there in quite a while, it seems that every time I tried it was closed. I’d pretty much forgotten about it till now. Thanks for reminding me…. Grrrrrrr

    There are zero kosher restaurants in Tokyo. No butchers so what we can buy at the supermarket is uncertified foods. The only certified stuff I can get is nosh in bulk from Costco and sometimes Pepperidge Farm cookies from a nearby store.

    Effectively this means that almost everything I eat is technically treife. Do I miss cheese burgers? Bacon? Pepperoni pizza? Tonkatsu (japanese fried breaded pork cutlets)? Oh yes I do, but not as much as I thought I would.

    BTW, can this thread be counted as putting a stumbling block before the blind? :)

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  • used 2 b a fan

    F.S.- how dare u post a dvar tora next 2 this……………………..

  • http://jacobdajew.blogspot.com Jacob da Jew

    Yo Hesh, I did a post about this titled “If you could eat one thing http://jacobdajew.blogspot.com/2007/07/if-you-could-eat-one-thing.html

  • http://www.rabbiswife.blogspot.com Rabbi’s Wife

    I’ll second really missing clam chowder!

    Also Taco bell. *sigh* I heard there used to be a kosher one here in E”Y, but I can’t find it if there was. Actually, Kosher Mexican food in general, as it’s so difficult to find, especially dairy. I’ll give a shout out for the Pizza Station on Pico in LA for having the best kosher burritos ever!!!

  • http://www.frumsatire.net Frum Satire

    Used to be a fan- I have words for you but I cannot say them- ok fine I will “are you f—cking kidding me?”

  • http://coolyiddishemama.blogspot.com coolyiddishemama

    I definitely don’t miss fast food (and am proud to say my kids have never had it). I realized this, though. I miss being able to just walk into a restaurant and get something somewhat healthy rather than running into a CVS for some chazerei with a hechsher. In addition, the quality of our kosher restaurants have gone down in direct proportion to the increase number of closures in the past year. Essentially, when you have a captive audience, the food can be awful but people will still come back.

  • http://freshwater-phil.blogspot.com Phil

    I wasn’t exposed to “real” treif food for very long, my parents became BT when I was about 6 or 7. It was hard growing up and seeing all these chocolates, gum, chips, etc which we knew were kosher but couldn’t eat simply because they had no hechsher in Canada. Thankfully, this has changed over the past 10-15 years, most of the ones we craved are all kosher now.

    The one thing I would really liked to have been able to do is to hunt my own meat, much the way I catch my own fish. We have some of the best deer, moose and caribou hunting on the continent up here, not to mention pheasant, duck, partdridge and grouse.

    It would really be great to have the option of not having to buy hormone fed animals at outrageous prices. I have some aquaintances that “live off the land”, they swear by it and assure me that game meat is delicious. Unfortunately, trapping and schechting is not feasable these days, nor is it legal.

    used 2 b a fan,

    What’s wrong posting a dvar Torah where hundreds of young Jews can read it? This is a great mitzvah and merit.

  • Navah

    Since I love to cook and mostly dislike restaurant food, I don’t really miss anything treif.

    No treif foods specifically… However, right now I eat vegetarian at home, but when I move on my own, I’ll start buying kosher vegetarian ingredients. That’ll be more of a challenge.

  • jew lookin’ at me?

    taco bell. sometimes i go to their website to see if they’ve invented any new foods. sometimes i linger on that website a little to long.
    i bought this cholov yisroel what-looked-like yellow squirty cheese from a bottle. like the kind you would get on stadium nachos (mmmmm…..nachos.) then i opened it and besides the fact that it was prematurely moldy (i hate those kniving cheating frumsters!), it was also….white. i gave up on ever eating yummy yellow processed cheese sauce again.
    that was the day all hope died.

  • ChiJadey

    Shrimp. There is no good substitute for seafood; it has a particular taste and texture that makes it pretty much impossible to duplicate.

  • veebee

    My main problem isn’t the lack of food to eat, it’s the time period in between meat and milk. I have no clue how someone could keep 6 hours… I can’t even keep 3.

  • Chris_B

    72 minutes FTW!

  • http://www.frumsatire.net Frum Satire

    I have decided to start keeping one because if the D

  • http://www.frumsatire.net Frum Satire

    I have decided to start keeping one because if the Dutch can do it so can I

  • Stacy

    There was always Pop Tarts and Skittles around my house but I never really thought that much into it until I got yelled at for bringing Capri Sun to school.

  • http://elishevers.blogspot.com shevers

    Jew Lookin’ – Taco Bell. Definite torture. Mostly I miss all of the veggie, Japanese and Mexican restaurants.

  • Anonymous

    Pizza Station (in LA) actually has the best kosher Mexican everything! I’d almost swear they use real meat instead of fake. Rabbi’s wife, you got me drooling just thinking about their veggie quesadilla plates!

  • Yossi G.

    Skitteles aren’t kosher??!!
    oh, crap.

  • MK

    As a FFB, I can only say wow! To have to fight these cravings everyday, I would lose my mind. No wonder chazal say a BT stands higher than a tzadik. Kol Hacovod.

    BTW, the thought of shrimp, lobster, bacon, cheese burgers, etc. one word – barf!

  • http://shomershabbossoprano.blogspot.com shomershabbossoprano

    This might sound gross to a lot of you, but I miss the Outback Steakhouse.

    Perfectly done choice bits of steak…cooked in what was probably a VAT of butter.
    Add a bloomin’ onion and a Guinness…
    perfect.

    :)

  • Chris_B

    shomershabbossoprano,

    Yep. Thats gross. All the good steak houses out there and you miss Outback? I’ve had canned meat that tasted better than their steak.

    OTOH, I understand a little bit. Probably going to Ruth Chris’s for my birthday and it will tear me up to order the steak (cant even order sirloin) w/o the butter. Worse yet I gotta pass on the creamed spinach and mashed potatoes too! Actually… If I order and eat those then clear the table BEFORE the steak arrives, its OK as I understand. Gotta get into the habit of planning these things better.

  • http://freshwater-phil.blogspot.com Phil

    Chris,

    The place you’re going to doesn’t sound kosher if they have an option of steak with our without butter… Am I missing something?

    In general, anything cooked in the same oven, pot, grill or with the same utensils as anything non kosher is automatically rendered non kosher.

    In theory, you can have milk, wash your mouth out then eat (kosher) meat, although some people have a 1/2 hour minhag from milk to meat. When it comes to cheese, you get all kinds of chumras anywhere from 1 – 6 hours. For the record, Shulchan Aruch only mentions the 6 hours for cheese to meat in case of old stale cheese, the kind with worms in it. Not quite sure what this is, I’m not much of a cheese lover, doesn’t sound any more appetizing than fishing bait.

  • Chris_B

    Phil,

    Maybe it wasnt clear that I was being slightly tongue in cheek. I think I explained before, but there is no kosher meat to be had in Tokyo. We have no kosher restaurants, no shochet that I know of. My shul used to do (imported) chicken dinner for shabbat, but now they dont. I cant do without meat, my metabolism is too fast and I cant get enough protein from beans and tofu. I dont claim to keep halachically kosher, I’m aware that the meat I eat even cooking at home isnt kosher as its not killed “in the manner I have commanded you”. I just do my best to avoid forbidden foods. This is difficult enough since pork/shellfish/shrimp meat or derivatives are present in so much of the local diet.

    My rabbi is Dutch Ashkenazi so I inherit his 72 minutes period for dairy after meat. As far as the order of things goes, I was taught that dairy can be eaten before meat w/o a waiting period in between as long as the table is cleared, effectively making the meat another meal.

    This is as I understand things and I’m far far far from a kashrus expert. I’m only 6 months into my conversion studies and am bound to make mistakes. If anyone wants to blame my rabbi for not teaching me right, instead blame me for being a bad student.

  • jennthejewess

    Since im a HUGE steak fan…can eat breakfast lunch and dinner my choice would def be a Peter Luger’s porterhouse. Apparently they are so soft u can cut them with the side of ur fork- like buttah!

    Also Cennebon – like in the movie theaters! Its HEAVEN!!

  • http://freshwater-phil.blogspot.com Phil

    Chris,

    I didn’t realize that there were actually people that held 72 minutes to dairy after meat, I was under the assumption that everyone followed the 6 hour rule.

    I do feel for your current situation, as far as I know, you’re still OK eating non kosher as you haven’t completed your conversion , I may be wrong. I suggest checking on what the best halachic option is in your specific case, seems to be a very tough choice to make on your own, maybe supplements? If there are other frum Jews in Tokyo, do they stick to a beans and fish diet?

  • tesyaa

    Phil, you seriously did not know that some groupswait 1 hour, some wait 3 hours, some wait 5.5 hours? We wait 3 hours in my house for no good reason. Our excuse is that baalai tshuva who lost their mesora don’t have to take up the mesora of their great grandparents. And anyway, the waiting period is all minhag anyway. So if I eat an early dinner, it’s still ice cream at 10 pm.

  • http://suitepotato.blogspot.com suitepotato

    I was at the store earlier this year and asked my wife in the checkout line what she was planning for Passover next time and she said without missing a beat, “a ham, just like every year.” (We do not actually have a ham, just so you know.)

    The little old lady ahead of us we already knew was Jewish too nearly fainted. My wife recognized her from the synagogue and of course said it on purpose to see the reactions of her and other people she recognized.

    As she said to me, what you eat doesn’t make you any better or more holy if you’re still a grouchy old b*st*rd who pinches a kid’s ear because their pronunciation of Hebrew for their haftorah for bat mitzavah isn’t that great when they’re really trying. She had a point.

    Nevertheless, I am going to miss Hamburger Helper. Now that is a comfort food. Even if I am somewhat lactose intolerant. I may pay for it, but the taste and feeling of being full in one plate without side dishes is not bad. And bacon. I am going to miss bacon.

    Lastly my wife pointed out that she doesn’t observe and eats a bacon cheeseburger, her rabbi would merely givea stern glance and a lecture. She says to me that if I don’t after the beit din and someone finds out, they’ll likely want to revoke the conversion. Then she stuck out her tongue like a kid and blew a raspberry.

  • TS

    I used to eat only “it would be kosher if it had been slaughtered correctly” meat out (chicken, turkey, lamb, the occasional beef). When I found out that the tzatziki sauce on gyros was dairy I was upset but kept eating it, until I gave up non-kosher meat for good. Fortunately there’s a vegetarian restaurant by me now that makes a great seitan gyro. Mmmm….

    Also, you should try TVP (that fake ground beef stuff) on nachos. YUMMMMMMM. If real beef tastes anything like that I can see why people like it. So savory!

    Oh, and I loved S’mores Pop Tarts… until my mom realized that all frosted pop tarts had gelatin in them and then only bought the unfrosted ones. Ick.

    And now every so often I’ll be eating something and I look at the ingredients and realize there’s gelatin in it. Depending on how hungry I am I’ll either just finish it or give the rest of it to a friend.

  • http://www.frumsatire.net Frum Satire

    The Dutch wait 1 hour

    I should mention that I love the candy nerds, and I miss the Old Red Mill Inn right near Mt Snow in Vermont

  • Chris_B

    Phil,

    There are two Chabad rabbis here (one messianic and one not) and AFAIK they eat beans and fish. One is a big guy, one is skinny and hyperactive. I guess they are blessed not to need meat.

    Any time I’ve tried to go completely without I get sickly. Also I have a limited tolerance for fish anyway. When I was young I could eat sushi by the bucketfull, but now I can eat maybe 5 pieces and my body says stop now or you will regret it.

    I’m not going to ask my rabbi for a pass on food and when the question comes up in the beit din I’ll be honest.

    TS,

    I’ve tried the various soy based “meat substitutes” and to me they taste nothing like meat. As far as ground beef goes, thats hard to get here too. The supermarkets and butchers here sell 70/30 beef/pork mix standard. Only one shop near me sells 100% beef ground meat and they only have a few packs available per day.

  • Anonymous

    When I was in college, I used to see the Rabbi from our campus Hillel in the Wendy’s restaurants on the turnpike enjoying himself a double cheesburger…

  • someone

    Well, i am dying for a Philly Steak sandwich, with some hot melted cheese running down mmmmmmmmmmmmm. Then of course i would love to taste chicken parm.

    Being someone who cooks a bit, most recipes call for milk or buttermilk to tenderize chicken before fried. So that is a big pain in the neck, being that I follow a recipe to the T, and never EVER improvise, if I can. On that note, I cant make any cheese dipping sauce for my wings, onion rings or nuggets

    Another big problem for one who cooks; most recipes, that have liquid in it, call for chicken or beef stock. THERE IS NO SUCH A THING IN KOSHER STORES.

    For instance, all good French Onion Soup’s call for chicken stock as the liquid. How can you put cheese into a soup that is made of chicken stock? and no, all those cubed chemicals are worthless.

    All good steak recipes call for a gorganzola butter sauce or something like it. If only I knew what it is supposed to taste like.

    My biggest problem with keeping kosher is at work. Not talking about Osh Kosh Wisconsin, I am talking about NYC. Unless you are willing to spend a minimum of 20 to 30 bucks on a lunch you have to resort to paper bag lunches (and dinners). To sit in an office, day in and day out, when all my non-kosher eating workmates ( I cant believe how PC I became, ech i hate it) are busy ordering in a full lunch for 5-7 bucks, with a drink, is torture. Pure Torture. So I starve, and curse the day i told my workmates I am frum and dont eat trief.

    wow, what a rant, I have more

  • Riv

    Oooo, chicken parmesan. That and all the things made with gelatin…

  • gus

    methinks o this

  • http://boroparkpyro.blogspot.com/ Steg (dos iz nit der šteg)

    Phil:

    ????? ?????? doesn’t mean the cheese is wormy — it’s either moldy (like blue cheese) or holey (like swiss).

  • http://freshwater-phil.blogspot.com Phil

    Steg:

    S.A psecifically says cheese that is hard (curled by rennet), 6 months old or has worms in it. Again, not 100% sure about what these all are, I imagine cream or cottage cheese aren’t considered hard, various opinions regarding pizza cheese.

    Ps. to Chris,

    Sefardim and Ashkenazim hold 6 hours from meat to milk, few Dutch people do 1 hour, based on an old minhag handed down by family tradition. Not too sure if you can “inherit” that, you might want ot get a second opinion. Last thing you need is to become Jewish and then have people doubting you kashrut and/or status.

    I don’t want to come off sounding like the Chumra police, but I do suggest you “cross the T’s and dot the I’s” in order to get the process done right.

  • http://www.frumsatire.net Frum Satire

    Phil you better stop using the internet then

  • Chris_B

    Officer Phil,

    I got no minhagim of my own. Maybe “inherit” isnt the right word, but I follow from what my rabbi holds. As far as my status goes, thats between me and my community at best. As for “second opinions”, you want I should ask the local Chabad rabbis? Thats the only other choice in this part of the world. I’m not learning from them and their job is not to teach converts.

    Me and the wife are doing this process Conservative. I know that there are always going to be people who will question/doubt/deny, but thats on them. I hope to improve my adherence to halacha more over time but thats between me and G-d. Nowhere have I heard that its written that the Ger has to live up to a higher standard than the Jew by birth. I’ve already met gerim who try to out frum the born orthodox. Thats their choice.

    If the day comes before my dip in the mikveh that I realize I cant fully accept the yoke of Torah then I’ll be happy to live as a gentile. Otherwise I’m not gonna offer excuses for my life.

    This isnt to lash out at you, I can understand your words come from a reasonable position. I dont pretend to understand things as well as many people here so if I’m talkin foolishness please excuse me.

    PS Maimonodes sure was right about the health issues of mixing. I aint gonna say no more.

  • http://freshwater-phil.blogspot.com Phil

    Chris,

    I appreciate your honesty. I don’t know the Chabad rabis in Japan or if they are qulaified to handle conversions. There are plenty of poskim that can be asked questions by email or phone if need be.

    Unfortunately for gerim, they actually are expected (according to Orthodox view) to follow certain minimum standards such as Shabbat and Kashrut in order to be accepted. Yes, this is more stringent than for born Jews, who are always considered Jews. Even if they claim to be atheists and deny the Torah, they can always change their position without having to convert.

    Conservative is a very broad term, some will call non Jews up to the Torah, some are egalitarian, others are stricter. As a “frum” Jew I obviously follow the stricter Orthodox point of view.

    A non observant relative of mine married a non Jew that had a conservative conversion to please her parents, they are totally un-observant today. He might go to synagogue once a year “for the show”. I ask you, what was the point? Who have they fooled besides themselves?

    Again

  • Dan the man

    Hostess Cupcakes & Twinkee’s
    Has anyone ever had them? It says Very clearly Pork gelatin and Animal oil next to the milk and whey.

  • Chris_B

    Dan,

    I used to eat em when I lived in the US and before I cared what I ate. The cupcakes are very good, Twinkies are just a sugar shot horror. I’ve not eaten either in over a decade so my memory may be rose colored about the cupcakes.