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Shomer Negiah Loopholes

You know you want to keep negiah, but the test is too much. You know you can only hold out for so long until your likely to mess up. In your head you begin to justify, maybe by asking yourself if God really wanted us to suffer so much by having all this pent up sexual energy with nowhere to go, or maybe its not really halacha and only a whacked out rabbinical decree from the middle ages, but whatever it may be, you are likely to mess up bad against your will at some point, I know I have been forced into all sorts of unwanted situations.

Instead of justifying all of your premarital touching, why not create some loopholes for touching before marriage and be off the hook, from the supposed wrath that you will incur according to books like Path of the Just and The Light of Efraim.

Shomer Negia Loopholes:

Skinny Dipping:
You can always take your women skinny dipping, just make sure you bone up on your basic hilchos needa before you attempt to check for chatzitzas. This is a great way to bypass the whole complicated system of trying to get into a mikvah before your married, while adhering to the strictest possible halacha. Well, almost strictest possible, because you may have to see your women without clothing on while she dunks to make sure she is fully under, and this clearly violates the rules of tznius.

Do it gemara style:
Thats right, why dont you pretend that you are using Bia (sex) as your marriage contract like the old days. Of course you arent getting married and make sure not to say anything about harei at mikudeshes lee then you may be in big trouble.

Cover your hair:
Negia is as much a public statement as it is a private one, so if you want to do some public necking or be able to sit together at an MBD concert or on a Monsey Tours bus, make sure to get all your bangs into your snood, or tichel, sheitles are way too expensive and uncomfortable for random breaking of negia.

Mikvah hopping:
You may infiltrate a neighborhood to do the Jewish version of trick or treating and its called sukah hopping, essentially going to people you dont know in search of free stashes of sour sticks and super snacks. So why cant this be done with regards to mikvahs, I understand that they dont give food at mikvahs, but throw sheitle on and read up about peoples mikvah experiences on Calm Kallahs and your ready for your first mikvah run. Its a great way to get laid without all the guilt and you can practice for when its time for the real deal. I hear they even hae these spa mikvahs with free massages now, so whats to lose.

Get a heter:
Money can buy anything, just take a look at all the corrupt cop movies. So Heterim are not like cops, but Rabbis and Cops are kind of the same, upstanding citizens with tayvas like the rest of us. I am sure you can get a heter for premarital touching if you looked hard enough. I would suggest going to one of the new sectors of Judaism, you know the flavor of the week, Humanistic, Renewal, or even the Avi Weiss brand of Open Orthodoxy, which seems like an even more left wing albeit philosophical version of Upper West Side Orthodoxy. Just tell them about the scene in the movie Holy Land where the bochur cannot concentrate on his studies and his Rebbe tells him to go to a far away land and get it out of his system with a whore, far away land was Tel Aviv eve though he was in Binei Brak and at the end of the movie when he decides to do teshuva the bochur gets blown up in a terrorist bombing, yes kind of ironic- but site that source and heterim may be given.

Shes your sister:
Abraham did it, theres no reason not to follow our forefathers and bust out the sister move, only in this case its not to keep your wife against some perverted older single guy at shull, but to allow the public display of affection. Only problem with this is that in ultra orthodox communities touching your sis may be as bad as getting a lap dance at Scores. Oh and this should be used strictly for public touching like holding hands or sitting next to each other, of course if you take it to the extreme, like that scene from Ferris Buelers Day Off where he picks his girlfriend up and pretends hes her dad and they make out, well then your liable for cherem due to incest, unless your amongst ultra orthodox sects that are inbred.

Clothing:
Classic anti-shomer negia literature, like the Guide to Touching Without Actually Touching will bring up great ideas like wearing gloves and clothing to make your dry-humping experience 100% in a non-glatt sort of way. Get your self a space suit for some interesting Shomer Negia roll play, maybe some Rabbi and Rebetzin outfits as well.

Become a lesbian:
This ones for ladies only, certain cities I the Midwest were known for their frum girl lesbian make out sessions. This one may actually be kosher on paper, though I am sure the folks in the ladies section do not want a make out session during Adon Olam, you may be able to get away with this. I can assure you it will hurt and help your shidduch ratings at the same time. On the upper west side it will definitely add to your sought afterness, while everywhere else besides the off the derech yeshiva guy who graduated from Niveh with a bachelors degree in Talmudic law circuit will not even post your resume on the shadchun databases.

Toys:
Look this is a family web site so I will leave this up to your imaginations, but using objects to touch each other may even be like using your elbow to turn on the TV on shabbos, a shinue. You arent even touching each other with clothing on, one may want to ask their Rav how far removed from someone does one have to be, to not be considered touching them, kind of like how much pork needs to fall into a pot of cholent to render it treife, same thing.

Saran wrap:
For those of you who want to abandon the laws of tznius, but want to resist the ultimate taiyva of touch, you can rap yourselves in saran wrap and get busy. Kind of like when they had sex in the movie Demolition Man, except the sex was the virtual reality of rubber suits and weird goggles. Or like the rubber suit scene from The Naked Gun.

Facebook:
There will be so much poking, your finger or other poking object may be liable to get sore, but dont worry they have all these clubs on facebook like dont poke me Im shomer and then you can write on each others walls and pretend you have a relationship by having the status changed for all to see. Of course this would defeat this posts whole purpose and I have no idea why I even included it, I guess it was all the poking that made me think of it.

Hide and seek:(footsie)
Have you ever looked under the table at a big shabbos meal? I am sure you have, well there are always accidental and purposeful touchings, leg rubbings, and good old footsie going on. Using hidden places in public may be your best way to stay sort of shomer, you can only touch in public as long as no one sees you, like when you pass your women the salt, everyone knows two people cannot hold the salt shaker at once, hence at needa homes they have the classic put down of the salt shaker.

Pilegesh:
You can always say shes your pilegesh and try and find all the sources to quote when your peeps call you an apikores. There was even a site for some time promoting the concept of pilagshim to try and stem the amount of adultery going on in the NY metro frum community, judging from the latest post on criagslist, it didnt work.

Hole in the sheet:(or whole in the bekishe and shabbos robe)
Probably one of the biggest Jewish urban legends, but you may be able to use it to your advantage, that is if you are breaking shomer to that extreme and really dont feel like seeing the person that you are going against the torah with, besides then you are not breaking any laws of tznius.

If you liked this post check out the following:

Shomer Negia Categories

Fictional Shomer Negiah

Frum Porn star gets heter

Ways to look over the mechitza without getting caught

{ 74 comments… add one }
  • Jeff December 17, 2008, 8:57 PM

    “Well, almost strictest possible, because you may have to see your women without clothing on while she dunks to make sure she is fully under, and this clearly violates the rules of tznius.”

    This is where you separate the boys and the men!

    Any married man who has learned the halachos knows that it is permissible to watch her dunk.

    The logic is that she will be muttar in a moment anyway so the man will wait and not transgress.

    • GET FREAKIN REAL!!! August 16, 2010, 8:13 PM

      stop spewing crap! leave the humor for youre friends and stop putting it online for unsuspecting people

  • veebee December 17, 2008, 9:01 PM

    Shopping for a heter is your best option. God knows how many Rabbis are out there waiting to sell you one.

    If you do say that she is your sister, I don’t care what the reason is, there are some psychologists waiting to schmooze.

    • GET FREAKIN REAL!!! August 16, 2010, 8:14 PM

      unfortunately ure rite

  • Priss December 17, 2008, 9:35 PM

    Loopholes? I’m in. Could I up the suggestiveness of the post title any more?

  • Anonymous December 17, 2008, 10:04 PM

    You could also do the bump-which for the uninitiated is a yeshivish couple walking down any major yeshivish thoroughfare and ever so casually bumping into each other multiple times. We used to stand outside yeshiva on shmuel hanavi and observe this phenomena and crack up……serious fun btw

    • GET FREAKIN REAL!!! August 16, 2010, 8:15 PM

      sad life you live i feel bad for your wife or wtvr woman gets stuk with you…pray G-d will forgive you for your stupidity

  • Anonymous December 17, 2008, 10:12 PM

    Or you could do the bump-which for the uninitiated is a yeshivish couple walking down a street on Friday night and ever so casually bumping into each other multiple times …..we used to stand outside yeshiva on Shmuel Hanavi st. and crack up……and that was the extent of our Friday night entertainment…..sad,I know

    • GET FREAKIN REAL!!! August 16, 2010, 8:16 PM

      sad life you live i feel bad for your wife or wtvr woman gets stuk with youpray G-d will forgive you for your stupidity

  • Anonymous December 17, 2008, 10:17 PM

    Dude eff your spam filter ……seriously

  • Phil December 17, 2008, 11:08 PM

    Condoms: Using a condom might make you partialy shomer negiah. Furthermore, latex is not mekabel tumah, just like saran wrap.

    If your doing the footsies, make sure you got the right persons leg, last thing you want is to be rubbing the rabbi that invited you for dinner.

    • GET FREAKIN REAL!!! August 16, 2010, 8:17 PM

      sad person that you are ure unfortunately literate enough for unsuspecting people to beleive you….please stop spewing this crap

  • Material Maidel December 18, 2008, 12:05 AM

    Phil! ROFL! that’s a prettttty good one!

  • TDurden December 18, 2008, 12:44 AM

    damn, this site is funny. just out of curiosity, why do all of u people continue being orthodox if you’re forced to conform to all these insane laws?
    (i mean the real ones, nothing like latex or saran rap:)

    • GET FREAKIN REAL!!! August 16, 2010, 8:19 PM

      the point is to learn modesty and self control and not put crap like this up here so you look completely pathetic …. modesty doesnt mean elbows knees and collar bone it means be a freakin mensch!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11

  • Moishe December 18, 2008, 1:12 AM

    TDurden:

    If my experience is anything to go by, we grew up in the system so feel compelled to follow the laws, but in the privacy of our own lives we do whatever we want.

    • GET FREAKIN REAL!!! August 16, 2010, 8:20 PM

      key word = PRIVACY keep it to yourself!!!!!!

  • m00kie December 18, 2008, 8:10 AM

    moishe.. thats kinda…sad

    tyler – if my experience is anything to go by – we do it because we know its the better, healthier, happier, saner way to do things, but we’re still human – like all other humans – and sometimes our lazier, needier, more human side gets the best of us.
    everyone knows they should excercise regularly, eat healthy, sleep a full night, dress warm in the cold, take vitamins……. and yet we dont do it- not cuz we dont believe it, just cuz its usually funner not to!

  • Bsamim Smoker December 18, 2008, 8:59 AM

    My advice, just get married. Youll make mad cash off the weddings gifts. Yes, youll have to play the game fake smiles and fake being “social ” with all your relatives and parent’s friends(who you don’t really know anyways) but after the sheva brachos, nothing to worry about, you guys are on your own. No one has to know you got married for sex.That way everyone is happy and you don’t piss any one off. Seriously, do you want your brothers and sisters to be blacklisted from every single shadchun out there because their sibling is “off the derech”. Remember the Haraidi world is all about playing the game, they’re “hardcore-jewish” that’s thier thing,hetierim and loop holes piss them off, because it prooves your heart and soul just ain’t in it, lack of enthusiasim, lack of passion. It’s like like telling a heavy metal puck that he could get his “music fix” at the opera. And then when he looks at you like your insane you say”well the is nothing illeagal about goin to the opera”. Good Luck

  • Yossi G. December 18, 2008, 9:51 AM

    Hesh-
    Your comment on toys reminded me that I forgot to discuss business with you. I have patented a durable high-quality vibrator with a built-in shabbos clock, for use by the same crowd that reads your blog.
    My marketing problem is obvious: The stores that sell other shabbos items won’t carry this, and shul gift shops…well, not.
    On the other hand, selling it via your website would enable me to reach my target audience, as well as providing me with a consumer list of that could be valuable for use in other ways.
    Whattaya think? I have quite a few other items in development, too.

  • daintysplendor December 18, 2008, 9:57 AM

    well why dont you just get married and have sex, it is so much easier!

  • Phil December 18, 2008, 10:02 AM

    Yossi G,

    You might want to try the gay / lesbian synagogue gift shops, they might be more open to this sort of thing.

  • Batya December 18, 2008, 10:12 AM

    I was going to ignore this, but what’s really funny is that every generation thinks they’re the first. “Keeping shomrei negiya was fine for my great-grandparents, but…”

    Cut it out kiddies. Every generation is the same. It’s just that kids can’t imagine their parents, grandparents etc “doing it.”

    Why do you think that chazal recommend early marriage?

  • tesyaa December 18, 2008, 10:43 AM

    Thank you Batya! And from what I’ve heard, even today’s short engagements aren’t short enough to prevent what they’re supposed to prevent.

  • dys December 18, 2008, 10:46 AM

    Any married man who has learned the halachos knows that it is permissible to watch her dunk.

    After getting married I promptly forgot any of the hypotheticals – the rules that weren’t relevant to our actual monthly routine, so I don’t remember this one.

    • GET FREAKIN REAL!!! August 16, 2010, 8:23 PM

      because it is simply a load of crap and misusage of knowledge this kid yes kis should not have access to

  • ipitythefoo December 18, 2008, 11:32 AM

    oh the hair covering!
    Useful on so many levels:
    +Good for keeping sun out of eyes and hair off face on hikes or at concerts
    +If in New York, Israel or LA gives you right to touch whomever you please… and some people even compliment ‘the newlyweds!’ and give brachos
    +Good if hair is slightly unclean
    +Helpful when it was not a good idea to get bangs

    …andd most importantly….
    +to hide dreads from close-minded frum people who assume you have joined the cult of hippy and will slowly suck their children in

  • i agree with mookie December 18, 2008, 2:22 PM

    we are humans with two souls and we battle daily to overcome the animalistic one and its desires.

    • Mahla August 16, 2010, 8:22 PM

      Regardless of what one thinks of the New Testament, it definitely has some nice turns of phrase, and one of the best is this: “The spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.”

  • OPINIONATED December 18, 2008, 5:41 PM

    Heshy, why don’t you just get married? You can always get divorced after. Getting a Get is no biggie these days, if you’re willing to cooperate. What’s the big deal?

    Find a girl you like but don’t want to marry, tell her you’ll marry for two months and divorce after.

    • GET FREAKIN REAL!!! August 16, 2010, 8:24 PM

      sadly in our society this is unfair but also neccesary but again the key is being a MENSCH

    • Mahla August 16, 2010, 8:26 PM

      Opinionated, in Shia Islam, there is actually a loophole exactly like this called sigheh.

      Basically, it is a marriage where the marriage contract is made out as valid for a fixed duration of time … and that fixed duration can last anywhere from an hour or two to 99 years.

      You can imagine exactly how this loophole is exploited, LOL. ;^D Sunni Islam DEFINITELY doesn’t hold by it.

  • Phil December 18, 2008, 9:04 PM

    Found another possible loophole in today’s Rambam: Doing it by mistake.

    He is describing people that sinned by accident, the example given is a man and woman “messing around” and then they have sex by “accident” without realizing.

    I didn’t quite understand how this could happen, according to the footnotes most of the other rabbis couldn’t figure it out either.

    • GET FREAKIN REAL!!! August 16, 2010, 8:11 PM

      YOU try telling G-d it was a mistake you’ll roast in hell for putting up crap like this

  • veebee December 18, 2008, 9:57 PM

    Opinionated – that seems real practical.

  • OPINIONATED December 18, 2008, 10:41 PM

    Veebee- You know something, you hear so many stories of people who get divorced after 3 months or less that you begin to wonder…

  • MINDY December 18, 2008, 11:10 PM

    We couldn’t find the saran wrap in the house so we tried waxed paper. Don’t try it. It made a lot of noise and when we go hot and sweaty, the wax melted.

  • solamente December 18, 2008, 11:55 PM

    Hey, what are shiksas for boys? Hello! (I think that would go in your ‘toys’ category).

  • Frum Satire December 19, 2008, 11:07 AM

    Phil does that condone messing around?

  • Phil December 19, 2008, 11:27 AM

    Hesh,

    It wasn’t the context the halacha is stated in, it was actually regarding whether or not the guy had to bring a Korban Chatas for aveiros done “unintentionally”.

    The Rambam explicitly forbids messing around before marriage, even kissing and embracing is out. He doesn’t mention hand shaking though, maybe there weren’t to many businesswomen back in his time or hand shaking might not have been part of the business world.

    • GET FREAKIN REAL!!! August 16, 2010, 8:10 PM

      there aint an unintentional thing in ure book phil!

  • Gefilte Fish December 21, 2008, 2:24 PM

    Yossi G.

    Why can’t you just sell it on eBay/Amazon and just post a link here, well, except if you’re joking…

  • Baruch Atta December 23, 2008, 3:50 PM

    Other loopholes:

    1> Become a doctor.

    2> or a radiologist or something else in the health care field.

    3> hair dresser anyone? Or are they all gay?

    4> dentist

    5> become gay. Thats right. Touch all you want.

    • Chani May 9, 2012, 7:36 AM

      Sorry, couldnt help but comment on this. A radiologist IS a type of doctor. For some reason you list it separately.

    • kuni May 9, 2012, 10:50 AM

      gynecologist?

  • smooth shemp March 4, 2009, 2:36 AM

    oy! just plain oy!

  • chevramaidel May 5, 2009, 1:56 AM

    Interesting- I’ve never before considered moving to the Midwest, but I’ll give it some thought now!

  • what a schmuk May 5, 2009, 5:53 AM

    Ditto, u a-hole.

  • lawschooldrunk June 19, 2009, 9:23 AM

    I am saddened to read all these posts from jews who have no willpower and do not understand the purpose of halachos and of being orthodox…

    This thread, although humorous in a dark way, smacks of hypocrisy if taken seriously.

    • GET FREAKIN REAL!!! August 16, 2010, 8:06 PM

      THANK YOU SOMEONE WITH THEYRE HEAD ON STRAIGHT!

  • GET FREAKIN REAL!!! August 16, 2010, 8:05 PM

    OK SEE HERE IS ALL YOUR PROBLEMS…. IF YOURE FRUM YOURE FRUM….SO U FOLLOW EVERY RULE THERE IS….NO MATTER WHAT…..IF YOURE CONFUSED YOU BETTER FIGURE OUT WUT THE HELL YOU ARE AND IF YOURE NOT FRUM THEN U CAN HAVE SEX AND NOT BE SHOMER NEGIAH…. WUT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE!

    • Anonymous May 27, 2013, 6:33 PM

      ok, since I’m not shomer negiah then, I might as well eat pork, rob banks, and be mechalel shabbos, right?

  • Ash September 14, 2010, 3:12 PM

    just a point, i love your posts, however when it gets this crazy, you could chas veShalom lead someone off the derech. I just think its a bit too much, keep it for the dinner table 🙂

  • dorot January 27, 2011, 12:45 PM

    My my this is the best satire ever, IMHO.

  • A March 6, 2011, 8:52 AM

    You’ve missed the point.
    The Torah commands: ??? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??????- you shall not stray after your hearts or eyes. – Eyes – referring to sexual immorality. (see Rashi there) – So the point is that you WONT get worked up; and that we as humans, have the power to control ourselves….Loopholes aren’t actually lopeholes, because if obviously for a man, if he does anything that gets him sexually excited (even if it isn’t forbidden) it is Asur because of possible physical reactions that he might have (??????? ??? ??? ??) , and a woman is still ???? in this Averah of lo taturu as well (see Igroth Moshe on this subject)…

  • A March 6, 2011, 8:53 AM

    You’ve missed the point.
    The Torah commands: ??? ????? ???? ????? ????? ??????- you shall not stray after your hearts or eyes. – Eyes – referring to sexual immorality. (see Rashi there) – So the point is that you WONT get worked up; and that we as humans, have the power to control ourselves….Loopholes aren’t actually lopeholes, because if obviously for a man, if he does anything that gets him sexually excited (even if it isn’t forbidden) it is Asur because of possible physical reactions that he might have (??????? ??? ??? ??) , and a woman is still ???? in this Averah of lo taturu as well (see Igroth Moshe on this subject)…

  • Seriously? March 30, 2011, 8:04 AM

    Sex is a wonderful force for good, when harnessed right. I met her, and a few days later, proposed. We were both teenagers in college. We were entirely unsuited for each other. We had nothing in common, except fire and extreme levels of stubbornness. Our fights were epic.

    It was the best decision I ever made. Our marriage keeps getting better and better, with levels of excitement and fun that I could not even imagine 20 years ago.

    I think many people could make it work if they want to. Physical desire is a good building block; stubbornness is good, too. Learning how to fight is essential. So is the willingness to see someone as you want them to be, not as they are (people grow into the perceptions of others).

    Just get married. Use that energy to build something beautiful, not wrap yourself in knots.

  • HG May 27, 2013, 6:46 PM

    didnt realize this was early on in the FS days. you just reposted to Fb. not the funniest post ever, but informative… of what not to do!

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