Comments on: Are Jews disproportionately good at business? http://www.frumsatire.net/2008/09/27/are-jews-disproportionately-good-at-business/ It aint always frum and it aint always satire Fri, 12 Mar 2010 16:52:13 -0500 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: AF http://www.frumsatire.net/2008/09/27/are-jews-disproportionately-good-at-business/comment-page-1/#comment-54764 AF Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:07:20 +0000 http://www.frumsatire.net/?p=981#comment-54764 Oh, and another thing: Ksiva vachasima toivah, y’all! Oh, and another thing:

Ksiva vachasima toivah, y’all!

]]> By: AF http://www.frumsatire.net/2008/09/27/are-jews-disproportionately-good-at-business/comment-page-1/#comment-54762 AF Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:04:20 +0000 http://www.frumsatire.net/?p=981#comment-54762 >NO FREAKING WAY! Seriously, there is a huge hole in the logic that is used in his argument. Answer this question. How many highly successful Jews that are in some kind of business are religious? Ok, now how about this question. How many successful Jews know or even care about anything that has to do with Torah? Exactly. I agree with this point. Not with the next one, though: >Hey, here is another excellent question. How many poor and destitute Jews have there been throughout history? I am sure it is heavily weighted to the poorer than the richer. What is “heavily weighed” mean in here? The question is: are there more businessmen amongst Jews than amongst other nations, and are there more Jews amongst businessmen than would be predicted by their proportion in the society? If yes, then there is some active force pushing Jews towards (successful) business. >Ok, so Torah does indeed have much to teach about business Torah doesn’t teach about business at all. Torah is not in the business of teaching about business, it’s in the business of giving laws of how G-d thinks you should conduct business. Torah teaches about business ethics and laws — related to Jews (in other words, not just pure ethics... also, not selling pork to other Jews). Sure, following business ethics is necessary for good business, but it’s not the only thing. You need to eat healthy to do bodybuilding (if you eat crap, you won’t be much of a bodybuilder), but you need also some specific things (e.g., protein-heavy diet) beyond pure health. Bottom line: rabbis (especially Lubavitchers — whose role is to spread the pnimiyus of Torah) need to concern themselves with infusing gashmius with ruchnius (and enhancing ruchnius in general) — not justifying ruchnius with gashmius. All these “proofs of Torah from quantum mechanics” and “Jews are successful in business because they brush their teeth” are sickening. Enough with the b.s. >NO FREAKING WAY! Seriously, there is a huge hole in the logic that is used in his argument. Answer this question. How many highly successful Jews that are in some kind of business are religious? Ok, now how about this question. How many successful Jews know or even care about anything that has to do with Torah?

Exactly. I agree with this point. Not with the next one, though:

>Hey, here is another excellent question. How many poor and destitute Jews have there been throughout history? I am sure it is heavily weighted to the poorer than the richer.

What is “heavily weighed” mean in here? The question is: are there more businessmen amongst Jews than amongst other nations, and are there more Jews amongst businessmen than would be predicted by their proportion in the society? If yes, then there is some active force pushing Jews towards (successful) business.

>Ok, so Torah does indeed have much to teach about business

Torah doesn’t teach about business at all. Torah is not in the business of teaching about business, it’s in the business of giving laws of how G-d thinks you should conduct business. Torah teaches about business ethics and laws — related to Jews (in other words, not just pure ethics… also, not selling pork to other Jews).

Sure, following business ethics is necessary for good business, but it’s not the only thing. You need to eat healthy to do bodybuilding (if you eat crap, you won’t be much of a bodybuilder), but you need also some specific things (e.g., protein-heavy diet) beyond pure health.

Bottom line: rabbis (especially Lubavitchers — whose role is to spread the pnimiyus of Torah) need to concern themselves with infusing gashmius with ruchnius (and enhancing ruchnius in general) — not justifying ruchnius with gashmius. All these “proofs of Torah from quantum mechanics” and “Jews are successful in business because they brush their teeth” are sickening. Enough with the b.s.

]]> By: Daniel http://www.frumsatire.net/2008/09/27/are-jews-disproportionately-good-at-business/comment-page-1/#comment-54756 Daniel Mon, 29 Sep 2008 17:24:31 +0000 http://www.frumsatire.net/?p=981#comment-54756 NO FREAKING WAY! Seriously, there is a huge hole in the logic that is used in his argument. Answer this question. How many highly successful Jews that are in some kind of business are religious? Ok, now how about this question. How many successful Jews know or even care about anything that has to do with Torah? Hey, here is another excellent question. How many poor and destitute Jews have there been throughout history? I am sure it is heavily weighted to the poorer than the richer. Ok, so Torah does indeed have much to teach about business and how to live for success in such endeavors; however, citing the example of non-practicing non-religious Jews is just bad logic and bad business. OH, who cares what stereotypes goyim have of us. Often they aren't out of appreciation, but right out of a justification for underlying antisemitism. NO FREAKING WAY! Seriously, there is a huge hole in the logic that is used in his argument. Answer this question. How many highly successful Jews that are in some kind of business are religious? Ok, now how about this question. How many successful Jews know or even care about anything that has to do with Torah?

Hey, here is another excellent question. How many poor and destitute Jews have there been throughout history? I am sure it is heavily weighted to the poorer than the richer.

Ok, so Torah does indeed have much to teach about business and how to live for success in such endeavors; however, citing the example of non-practicing non-religious Jews is just bad logic and bad business.

OH, who cares what stereotypes goyim have of us. Often they aren’t out of appreciation, but right out of a justification for underlying antisemitism.

]]> By: Batya http://www.frumsatire.net/2008/09/27/are-jews-disproportionately-good-at-business/comment-page-1/#comment-54726 Batya Mon, 29 Sep 2008 02:35:13 +0000 http://www.frumsatire.net/?p=981#comment-54726 Maybe a relative? Shannah tovah http://me-ander.blogspot.com/2008/09/make-it-fun-year.html Maybe a relative?
Shannah tovah
http://me-ander.blogspot.com/2008/09/make-it-fun-year.html

]]> By: Levi Brackman http://www.frumsatire.net/2008/09/27/are-jews-disproportionately-good-at-business/comment-page-1/#comment-54715 Levi Brackman Sun, 28 Sep 2008 23:38:15 +0000 http://www.frumsatire.net/?p=981#comment-54715 Great question. It was his real name--ironic I know! Great question. It was his real name–ironic I know!

]]> By: Levi Brackman http://www.frumsatire.net/2008/09/27/are-jews-disproportionately-good-at-business/comment-page-1/#comment-54709 Levi Brackman Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:37:48 +0000 http://www.frumsatire.net/?p=981#comment-54709 Hey Hesh, Thanks for this post it is greatly appreciated. There is no doubt that many Jewish people who don't actively learn Torah are very much influenced by its teachings. This is because many of the stories, sayings and nuggets of wisdom they would have heard from their parents and grandparents can be traced back to an idea or story from the Torah. The Torah is the source of all wisdom and truth and it is therefore not surprising that a people who have spent three thousand years studying it know a thing or two about how to be successful in any arena. Shana Tova UmTukah. Levi Brackman Hey Hesh, Thanks for this post it is greatly appreciated. There is no doubt that many Jewish people who don’t actively learn Torah are very much influenced by its teachings. This is because many of the stories, sayings and nuggets of wisdom they would have heard from their parents and grandparents can be traced back to an idea or story from the Torah. The Torah is the source of all wisdom and truth and it is therefore not surprising that a people who have spent three thousand years studying it know a thing or two about how to be successful in any arena. Shana Tova UmTukah.

Levi Brackman

]]> By: Batya http://www.frumsatire.net/2008/09/27/are-jews-disproportionately-good-at-business/comment-page-1/#comment-54707 Batya Sun, 28 Sep 2008 16:12:39 +0000 http://www.frumsatire.net/?p=981#comment-54707 Just wondering... How'd that guy find someone named John Birch? <i>I guess you guys don't get it.</i> Just wondering…
How’d that guy find someone named John Birch?
I guess you guys don’t get it.

]]> By: utubefan http://www.frumsatire.net/2008/09/27/are-jews-disproportionately-good-at-business/comment-page-1/#comment-54703 utubefan Sun, 28 Sep 2008 15:02:28 +0000 http://www.frumsatire.net/?p=981#comment-54703 AF, I tend to agree with you on your last point, but when you say "If somebody considers himself “free of Torah”, he is “fried out” then you are making a leap to judgment like so many other misguided frum people. Jews who are not Orthodox whether affiliated with other denominations or completely unaffiliated do not consciously "consider themselves free of Torah." That isn't what the dynamic is. To assume that about them is to be totally disconnected from their reality. Either they are connected to Torah in their own way, or they question Torah, but wish to practice it in their own way, or are not even thinking about Torah at all and ignorant of much of what Torah has to offer them (and by ignorant, I mean by way of a complete lack of education and oral family tradition). The last and smallest group is making a conscious choice to be, as you say, "free" from Torah. That, my friend, is a small group of Jews indeed and by using your choice of terms to describe the majority of Jews out there you are not only devaluing them as Jews but you are also woefully incorrect. AF, I tend to agree with you on your last point, but when you say “If somebody considers himself “free of Torah”, he is “fried out” then you are making a leap to judgment like so many other misguided frum people. Jews who are not Orthodox whether affiliated with other denominations or completely unaffiliated do not consciously “consider themselves free of Torah.” That isn’t what the dynamic is. To assume that about them is to be totally disconnected from their reality. Either they are connected to Torah in their own way, or they question Torah, but wish to practice it in their own way, or are not even thinking about Torah at all and ignorant of much of what Torah has to offer them (and by ignorant, I mean by way of a complete lack of education and oral family tradition). The last and smallest group is making a conscious choice to be, as you say, “free” from Torah. That, my friend, is a small group of Jews indeed and by using your choice of terms to describe the majority of Jews out there you are not only devaluing them as Jews but you are also woefully incorrect.

]]> By: AF http://www.frumsatire.net/2008/09/27/are-jews-disproportionately-good-at-business/comment-page-1/#comment-54699 AF Sun, 28 Sep 2008 06:32:57 +0000 http://www.frumsatire.net/?p=981#comment-54699 By the way, a “stereotype” is turning statistics into a law. Saying that all Jews are good in business is a stereotype. Saying that Jews are over-represented in business in comparison to goyim (there are more Jews in business than there should be, based on their proportional numbers in the society) is statistics. Likewise, saying that there is more crime among Blacks than among other minorities is statistics. Saying that every Black person is a criminal is a stupid stereotype. Statistical trends usually reveal some forces at work. We can ask, why are many Jews good in business/science? Stereotypes, on the other hand, are stupid and a sign of intellectual laziness and immaturity — they need to be rid of. By the way, a “stereotype” is turning statistics into a law.

Saying that all Jews are good in business is a stereotype. Saying that Jews are over-represented in business in comparison to goyim (there are more Jews in business than there should be, based on their proportional numbers in the society) is statistics. Likewise, saying that there is more crime among Blacks than among other minorities is statistics. Saying that every Black person is a criminal is a stupid stereotype.

Statistical trends usually reveal some forces at work. We can ask, why are many Jews good in business/science? Stereotypes, on the other hand, are stupid and a sign of intellectual laziness and immaturity — they need to be rid of.

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