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Overweight girl tries to coerce a bachur to go out with her

Dear overweight readers of my blog, I am not poking fun at overweight people, I myself have some love handles- and if I were a hipster and wore tight jeans I would have a huge muffin top though I wouldn’t have crumbs on top. But basically I am picking apart a letter sent by an overweight girl who is rejected by a prospective match because of her picture.

While in Baltimore this past shabbos I picked up one of those free frummy magazines with all the ads for sheitles and leather esrog carriers. Every frum community has one or many, Monsey has a while bunch of them and all they are good for is when you run out of toilet paper and dont feel like using the sand paper they try and pass off as paper towels. The one in Baltimore happened to have more then just ads and wasnt the size of a playbill from a Broadway play. I also stumbled across a very funny article entitled Dear Bachur by a women or girl named E.G. Edelson.

Dear Bachur basically starts off as a letter by this girl who wants to go out with this one bachur.

I am young woman looking to find my bashert- as you are. I have good yichus, my parents have adequate means, and I attended a good high school and seminary. I have a degree and a good job (uh oh she works) I have a good sense of humor, like to do chesed and love children. I am very busy with my parents and job, but try to find time to go to an occasional shiur.

Now that sounds like a great girl, not my kind of girl by any means, but she is looking for a bachur and I havent been a bachur since I was called up to the torah for my bar mitzvah. What can be wrong, maybe the table cloths arent white, maybe they dont sing the right tunes for lecha dodi? Maybe she didnt do well at playing kosher land in pre-1A? The letter goes on

The shadchun relayed all this information to your parents, who shared it with you and he said you would be happy to meet me. But you wanted to see a photo.

I never ask to see a picture, because I assume when I say I am an avid cyclist, hiker and spend more time hugging trees then anything else, its my way of saying I want someone physically active and in god shape. Not necessarily a stick, but someone who is active almost every day.

It was soon after we sent the photo that we received your reply. No thank you!

I wonder if it was a naked picture?

Yes I know I am overweight, but Im not ugly, in fact most people think I am pretty.

Obviously not this dude, and by the way, most people will never tell you the truth if you are ugly- its just not human for people to tell you that you are nasty. Unless they are scumbags.

Im trying to lose weight, but it isnt easy, and it doesnt yield immediate results. My friend lost a lot of weight really quickly- and she nearly died of anorexia. I dont want to be like that, I want to stay healthy.

I wonder if she knows that Obesity kills way more people than anorexia?

The letter goes on to talk about mussar and having a loving wife and all that jazz. Kind of like the song that says If you want to be happy for the rest of your wife, get an ugly woman to be your wife Lipa should definitely adapt that one. I did like the last line and shes right, but of course there is more.

Am I wrong to feel slighted at your rejection after only a glance at my earthly shell?

Earthly Shell What are you Aryeh Kaplan or something? That is a great line, but you are right and wrong. Hvaent you ever heard the famous Rabbi Orlofsky line that All men are horny pigs? Men may have more mitzvos, but women are on a higher spiritual level, hence you dont hear of many frum men complaining about shidduch rejection because of being overweight. Women just dont care as much as men do, from what I have seen at least.

Physical beauty is transitory, pregnancy, household work and age leave their mark on even the most attractive of women.

Trust me, my father noodges me all the time to date women half my age, even after I tell him that the laws have changed since 1955.

Then there is a new letter entitled Dear Parents of Bachur. Man this girl is desperate, she sound like me with a previous girlfriend of mine, but I was madly in love and trying to get her back, this is before they even found out she didnt go to the right day camp at age 6.

I know that you want only the best for your son. But if I may be so bold, (this is like on frumster after the tenth rejection) I am a bit confused by your priorities. You proudly send your son off to a yeshiva where he can immerse himself in kedusha, yet you are using secular criteria to determine the eligibility of a potential shidduch. The secular world looks at the outside beauty. As Jews we believe in looking deeper.

First off I agree and disagree, doesnt the torah comment repeatedly on the beauty of Sarah, and the matriarchs how they were so stunning and all that jazz. I am sure there are lots of mentions about hotties in the scripture.

What I really want to know is this, this girl sounds insane. Why on earth she would want to date some guy whos parents just rejected her because she had a little bit of a muffin top? Seriously, if I was going to date some girl and she said she wouldnt date me because she didnt like the fact I was a little rough around the edges, would I go and try to seek her out. Especially if her parents were doing the dirty work, do you want to be apart of family who is judging you how you dont want to be judged. It sounds counterintuitive to me.

The woman who wrote this letter is now happily married.

{ 92 comments… add one }
  • shaul September 14, 2008, 8:43 PM

    very nice, I thought you liked baltimore!!! LOL, it was moiredik to meet you this shabbos, and Im glad you didnt write about me

  • frum single female September 14, 2008, 9:20 PM

    unfortunately this young woman has probably been rejected alot which has prompted her to her take no prisoners approach. ive encountered many men like this as well who have this kind of behavior because they are always rejected.
    its a shame. i think that they lack self -confidence. truth is if someone vehemently doesnt have any interest in me , why would i want them? however, the type to behave like this young woman may not have had many good experiences which is why she wrote a letter like this.

  • iCE hORSE September 14, 2008, 9:49 PM

    Heres the deal on dating overweight girls. You should be allowed to ask for a girl who isnt larger than you are. If youre greasy zaftig bachur then you have no right to ask for a thin girl. But if youre a guy who is in good shape and takes care of himself, then by all means you can reject a girl because of her overweight bod. It is NOT ok to be overweight! It is unhealthy and unpleasant to look at. Its one thing if you were born repulsive and hideous, but Im not talking about that that, the subject at hand is weight. Im sick of hearing about guys who feel guilty turning down girls who are fatties. Girls CONSTANTLY reject guys because they smoke. Men hold that same right turn away flabby broads.

  • Frum Satire September 14, 2008, 10:10 PM

    Wow are you back Ice Horse- because we could use your insight.

  • s(b.) September 14, 2008, 10:11 PM

    ice horse smokes zaftig maidels. 😆

  • utubefan September 14, 2008, 10:33 PM

    I’m overweight and I don’t agree with the overweight girl. It’s a game and you gotta be in it to win it. Lose the weight, get the expensive haircut, show up to the right places. Just do it!
    Welcome back, Icehorse.

  • s(b.) September 14, 2008, 10:40 PM

    On a more serious note, a friend of mine once told me, “Men fall in love with their eyes, women fall in love with their ears.” For younger guys, that seems to be the case. That friend is now 46, still single, and realizes that a good heart beats a nice tuchus, but it took him a terrible relationship to realize that.

    And, ice horse, everyone’s not going to be everyone’s physical or emotional cup of tea, and everyone’s got the right to not be attracted to someone, regardless of their own size or grease level. Experience has taught me that a spark of attraction is a necessary thing in a relationship.

    For some people, cute + heart/personality + hashkafah = spark. For others, a spark is purely based on looks. I found that a guy being too attractive made me too stupid/tolerant of poor treatment and incompatible hashkafah, and I was in that relationship longer than necessary.

    To each their own.

  • Marooned in the Midwest September 14, 2008, 11:13 PM

    Physical attraction is important. It just is. No matter how much we as religious folk we want to think we are above it – at the end of the day you have to want to touch this person. I would never want to be with a guy that I had to convince and cajol into being with me. There is no fun in that.

    And maybe this is me being old, but why on Earth would anyone want a guy who has mommy & daddy screen his dates?

  • Anonymous September 14, 2008, 11:41 PM

    Completely off topic, I know, but what do you think of the chabad telethon? They’re at $7.3 Mil+ right now..

  • shua September 14, 2008, 11:55 PM

    why am i up at this hour commenting on blogs instead of sleeping…

    anyway, the maharal says on the pasuk about rachel being beautiful (in both “form and appearance,” no less) that physical beauty is reflective of spiritual perfection. now no doubt these things aren’t absolute and one shouldn’t go crazy applying maharal’s to practical situations. nevertheless, the claim that gets bounced around that “looks don’t matter” isn’t really correct.

    primary sources people! nowadays there’s too much that’s just based on feeling. a respected posek here in baltimore said people shouldn’t leave their top button unbuttoned cause it doesn’t “feel Jewish”. No typos there! Sheesh.

    /end rant… and sleep tight!

  • Heterim are for Hippies September 15, 2008, 12:05 AM

    Shua,

    That Maharal shouldn’t be taken at pshat value. The very easy refutation is to point out that there were many spiritual giants that were really nothing special to look at (certain Chassidic Rebbeim in the ‘overweight’ category come to mind) while there are some very good looking people who posses no other “virtue.”

  • s(b.) September 15, 2008, 12:14 AM

    shua, with apologies to lennon/mccartney, “what do you see when you turn out the light? It ‘feels Jewish,’ so I know it’s mine. I get by with a little help from my friends.” Layla tov, buddy.

  • SA September 15, 2008, 12:33 AM

    WHEN YOU WROTE:

    “…Earthly Shell What are you Aryeh Kaplan or something? …”

    I FELL OFF MY CHAIR!! BAGHHHHHHHHH

    /ok, back to Facebook.

  • Hubba-Hubba Hubby September 15, 2008, 1:07 AM

    Physical attraction is developed and encouraged by social contact, which is why all the paranoia about mixed events. Unfortunately, when encounters with the opposite sex are only for the purposes of shidduch dating it encourages the perception of a very limited range of what’s atractive.

    If one never learns to talk with the opposite sex (excuse me, gender), one is likely to end up with a spouse whose “total point score” may be acceptable to the chevre, but whose Sexy Index is low.

  • mother in israel September 15, 2008, 1:31 AM

    “I wonder if she knows that Obesity kills way more people than anorexia?”
    That may be technically true, but anorexia is a very serious disease that is hard to cure.

  • anon September 15, 2008, 2:35 AM

    Not being able to put down the donuts is just as serious a matter.

  • utubefan September 15, 2008, 7:31 AM

    Again, I would love it if the world worked the way we hoped, but it doesn’t. I get super practical when talk goes to “Shiduchim.” I have too many single friends in their late 30’s and 40’s. I think family, kids, sharing life is a great goal, religion aside. So, if one of the things that will make it likelier to happen is to lose some weight, then that’s what you do. That and opening your field of options and getting out of your bedroom and pursuing your interests in co-ed environments, blah, blah, blah. Men are visual creatures. Majority of them will get past the weight issue once they already know and love you. Only a minority will be okay with it right from the start.

  • Jacob da Jew September 15, 2008, 9:20 AM

    Great post.

    What I think? If the girl/guy feels good about themselves, it will reflect on the date.

    I know plenty of fatties who get married even before their hotter older sister does. Thats because the BBW has a positive outlook on life and is fun to be with whereas the skinny ho is annoying.

  • batya September 15, 2008, 9:33 AM

    Didn’t she sign it that she’s now “happily married”??
    nu? What’s the point?

    My husband and I met at a Soviet Jewry demonstration, 9th of Av, google my blogs to discover the year.

    Isn’t it better to find your “beshert” at some activity, like sitting on the sidewalk, rather than ogling or stamping on pictures?

  • Future Druggie September 15, 2008, 10:10 AM

    I am not fat, very active, but not a model, either. I get told all the time on dates, “I want a model, but I know I won’t get one.”

    Invariably, it never works. What can I do?

  • Phil September 15, 2008, 10:45 AM

    Getting rejected because of a picture means that she is either really fat or really ugly (or both).

    Fact is that halachically speaking, a man must be physically attracted to his wife, otherwise he will eventually come to hate her. I’m glad this one managed to find someone that will hopefully see her inner beauty if he isn’t a “chubby chaser”.

    Not that I’m that skinny myself, but here is something to consider for all fat couples, especially women that intend to have kids:
    The majority of people in the frum world put on some weight after marriage, and inevitably as their metabolisms slow down, it gets harder to lose it. Putting on even only 5 lbs per year (I can sometimes do that over Yom Tov), will lead to a 50 lbs surplus after 10 years, 100 lbs surplus over 20 years, etc. If you are already 50 lbs overweight when looking for a shidduch, you are grossly obease before even getting started. A crash diet to find a shidduch is bound to backfire, as the future mate will have been “tricked” and likely to freak out if the spouse puts back all the weight in 1 or 2 years.

    While were on the fat rant, I put part of the blame on ultra chassidish schools that actually shun sports and gym class. I try to force my kids outdoors and on their bikes as the school they are in doesn’t provide much as far as phys-ed, it’s simply not a priority for them.

    “Fressing” is another chassidish bad habit that doesn’t help. Now it’s come to the point where people in the frum world have removable bands surgically tied around their stomachs, removing before the yomim toiving so they can fress. Unfortunate, but sometimes necessary.

    Physical activity along with not overeating / overdrinking is the only way to maintain a healthy weight acording to the Rambam, Shulchan Aruch and most experts today.

  • sporadic intelligence September 15, 2008, 10:50 AM

    It wasn’t your line, but “this woman is now happily married” was the best. If you ever hear a tragic story, someone is sick, had a hard time in school, parents divorced, acne…the stories always end with “don’t worry, s/he got married” because of course marriage is the the be all and end all of our existance.

    In anycase, in terms of physicallity (not health), being fat doesn’t always have to look bad. Put yourself together, and you can look better than the size two. If however you insist on wearing whatever is in style instead of trying to flatter your shape you will look like blubber.

    Another thing, all guys are looking for the “size 2”, I think balance in the relationship should be a 6 pack on the guys. A size 2 gets the six pack, size 4 has to settle with a 4 pack…

  • Dofan Akuma September 15, 2008, 11:48 AM

    physical attraction is important for marriage.
    however, what often does not occur to yeshiva guys who have no contact with girls, is that a guy can become physically attracted over time even if initially he isn’t.

  • Dofan Akuma September 15, 2008, 11:53 AM

    shua,
    you should not be allowed in the same room as a maharal.
    if you do believe that you have correctly understood the maharal, does it fit with your perception of reality? are good-looking people better in some way?

  • Dofan Akuma September 15, 2008, 11:56 AM

    what about deformed babies? they must be horribly wicked right?

  • Frum Satire September 15, 2008, 11:56 AM

    Good one Phil

  • Shua September 15, 2008, 12:02 PM

    great point utube. that’s true for me – overweight bothers me generally only before i know someone. i think that’s true in general – before you know someone, less important things are overemphasized, cause that’s all you have to go with.

    heterim – beauty is rarely used as a quality for men, though the Gemara comments on the beautiful men of Jerusalem, such as R. Yochanan and others. R. Yochanan’s beauty is mentioned several times in shas. i believe King David is also described as beautiful. As mentioned, generally very little is absolute, and things should be qualified.

    dofan – beauty seems to be a positive quality, since the Torah and chazal consistently praise people for it. don’t need the maharal for that. not sure why that has anything to do with “good-looking people being better”. being smart or strong is also a quality – but smart or strong people aren’t better. we’re all given everything we have by G-d to serve him in a certain way. that’s an important distinction.

  • Phil September 15, 2008, 12:33 PM

    Thanks Hesh,

    It’s funny how times keep changing and sifhting back and forth.

    The Torah mentions the beauty of our ancestors (patriarchs & matriarchs) on many occasions, as well as the talmud. I personally doubt they were obese.

    In contrast, my dad grew up in North Africa where the heavier women were considered more desirable. In fact, the rich would overfeed their daughters with olive oil and pastries to the point they came up with a saying “She’s so beautiful she can hardly stand up). After seeing pictures of what the women of that era looked like, my brother and I joke about them being the reason my dad escaped to North America.

    In contrast, any size 6 or above today is looked upon as fat by the media and much of society in North America (except Mexico where “meat is for men, bones are for dogs”).

    Ultimately, a good woman is worth much more than a beautiful woman, you can get really lucky and have both as I did.

  • Dofan Akuma September 15, 2008, 1:12 PM

    shua,
    let me clarify for second. i put in ‘better’ for your ‘spiritually perfect.’
    in my opinion, yes we were given different talents, strengths, etc. and we should use them as best as we can. i wouldn’t think that we get spiritual credit for these gifts. spirituality — the stuff that hashem cares about, on the other hand, pertains more to choices we make. and people who use their free will to make the right choices are more ‘spiritually perfect’ and better in hashem’s eyes.
    you wrote in the context of whether to go out with an overweight girl: “physical beauty is reflective of spiritual perfection.”
    what i understood you to be saying is that there is a religious reason behind declining to date a girl who is not attractive. it’s not just a personal preference, hashem himself would agree that she is less spiritually perfect.
    i think this is not only stupid, but hurtful to people who were not born with physical beauty. isn’t it bad enough that they’re ugly? now they’re also more spiritually imperfect. if you don’t want to date a fat girl fine — but let’s leave the reason at simple physical unattractiveness.
    i have to admit that this bothers the hell out of me. unless i am missing some step in logic i am back to the same questions: does this make sense to you? are super-models paragons of spiritual virtue? when someone goes off the derech do they become physically ugly? do you think that a deformed child is less spiritually perfect than a beautiful one?

  • s(b.) September 15, 2008, 3:49 PM

    I love when comments become thoughtful exchanges. ((women studying ice horse gemara))

  • Anonymous September 15, 2008, 6:05 PM

    This is so sad it’s hilarious.

    Besides for the obvious reasons I think a lot of overweight girls tend to be shy, self conscience or even bitter, while guys have that whole jolly, funny, Jack Black, Seth Rogenish thing going on.

  • sporadic intelligence September 15, 2008, 6:20 PM

    As for Fat guys….I hate fat guy humor, it’s so depreciating, not to mention stupid.

    In anycase, I have a friend, who is, well, overweight, and one thing she has going for her is that besides for the fact that she has a gorgeous face…she doesn’t have a “fat” personality. Fat personalities, are worse than the fat itself.

  • Frum Satire September 15, 2008, 6:43 PM

    Sporadic- its funny because I know a bunch of chubby girls who are so cool that they get the hottest guys- because their coolness negates their fatness.

  • Riddler September 15, 2008, 7:30 PM

    What do you call a single guy who is bald, has a big fat stomach, a unibrow, only 1 testicle, below average intelligence, and who is worth millions?

    Women call him irrestable! Popular! He’s the most eligible bachelor!
    ______________________________
    If that fattie in the article was Ricky lake or Oprah she would be dating a handsome rich man, so she needs to stop accusing us men of being shallow. And she needs to figure out how to get her own talk show.
    ________________________________

  • Anonymous September 15, 2008, 8:16 PM

    So….if men are allowed to have their superficial thing justified, what is it allowed for women?

  • Chavi September 15, 2008, 8:23 PM

    Some of the comments were upsetting. Why? Not all overweight people are unhealthy, that’s why. I don’t have trouble getting attention/dates, and I’m considered obese by U.S. standards of health. Why? Because they’re outdated, that’s why. We all wear our weight differently. It isn’t always an issue of putting down the donuts, folks. Sometimes it is not something that can be controlled outside of medicine. And if you think otherwise, you’re hella ignorant. I’d hope that my massive brain and dashing eyes will pull in my beshert over whether I shop at Forever 21 or Lane Bryant.

    At any rate, the “earthly shell” thing had me rolling 🙂

  • sheva September 15, 2008, 9:29 PM

    Hey i also read this in my trusty local”who, what, where, when ,how, and sometimes why” What i really want to know is how much more space can they waste what was the point of this article? The real reading in this months www was the advice given to a parent who’s kids are being bullied in the “ask the rebbetizen section”. The Rebbetizin gave a prize winning answer i quote ” you should hire a private detective , video your kids being bullied, then take the families to the Bais Din”. Now that’s quality reading.

  • Hy Fi September 16, 2008, 7:29 AM

    This is the gravity police, we have the place surrounded. Ma’m, just ease down the doughnut back on the table and nobody will get hurt.

    If you eat doughnuts you will look like a doughnut.

  • Chris_B September 16, 2008, 9:08 AM

    Phil,

    “meat is for men, bones are for dogs” is priceless! I plan to make that part of my repertoire immediately!

    Hesh,

    Given a choice between newsprint and sandpaper, I’d go with the sandpaper. That black oily ink stains your hands to where you look like a bum. One more reason to keep a hankie or bandana with you at all times.

  • Shua September 16, 2008, 9:26 AM

    @dofan You’re right – “spiritual perfection” was not the right phrase. Maybe “spiritual potential” or “spiritual ability” would’ve been better. In any case, there’s no doubt that G-d judges us according to our abilities – it’s quite the Marxist system.

    As to what determines our final level in the scales of heavenly justice and the World to Come, yes it has to do with spirituality, but I don’t know what elements of it. A person who can think more deeply has something spiritual which that someone who can’t doesn’t seem to. Is that spiritual object an intrinsic element of said person’s being? Is it the same “spirituality” which contributes to a person’s ultimate destination? I’ve heard different opinions on this.

    In addition, it’s very hard to know the true makeup of a person’s based on the elements which are revealed through their brains and bodies. We don’t know what kind of limitations may be enforced this way. If a person is missing part of their brain, some of their soul is prevented from coming through, but the soul remains unchanged.

    Anyway, none of us have all the answers, as I mentioned to begin with, and very little should be taken as an absolute.

  • s(b.) September 16, 2008, 1:04 PM

    good middos are hot.

  • Izzy Vrameleh September 16, 2008, 5:30 PM

    Why do fat women stink? So blind people will hate them too.

  • Dovid September 17, 2008, 12:32 PM

    People also seem to forget that big guys have a very hard time also. Women, more or less, are also partakers in our human nature, which values outer beauty more than inner beauty. Men who don’t have the six-pack abs are doomed perhaps even more than bigger girls. No girls are ever open to dating bigger guys.

  • Susanne September 17, 2008, 1:00 PM

    Unfortunately, after the 100th time this happens to the same person, it can cause you to snap. i also had many many guys who on paper would have been absolutely perfect for me and threw my name in the garbage once they saw pics. and these guys were not studs themselves by any means. i have a friend who has been read to a guy by like 20 independent people and he keeps turning her down. listen dude, if that many people think its a good idea, go on a fricken date. Also, I disagree with Dovid completely. big guys don’t have even close to the amounts of probs that overweight girls have. remember, we are not as hung up on looks as men are. i have several friends who are married to guys significantly overweight. and you know why, cuz they are amazing guys. That is what girls are looking for. If you’re a big guy who can’t find a girl, stop looking for skinny girls yourselves! Don’t judge girls the way you feel you’re being judged. And like E.G. Edelson, you probably will just disregard what i say and think i’m a bitter overweight singleton, but alas, I’m spoken for too.

  • Free Ham September 17, 2008, 3:58 PM

    You can’t eat your cake and have your shidduch too

  • Shevers September 17, 2008, 8:11 PM

    Yeah very true. You know how many huge guys I know that are married to skinny little beautiful girls?

    Its definitely a double standard.

    Its very frustrating. I bike to school, I’m into healthy food, I try to watch the amount of food I take in on Shabbos… I am slightly bigger but no where near obese, yet my bmi says I’m obese. A number on a scale doesn’t mean you’re unhealthy.

    Really I think when we focus more on becoming healthy and less on how much we weigh it works and it shows. People that are healthy and that seem happy tend to radiant quite a bit…..

  • Chammy Porkstein September 18, 2008, 6:11 PM

    You are not obese but the charts say you are in the obese category? Lets do a little test: If you can’t walk 1 mile in 20 minutes without stinking up a room, drenching your clothes, hyperventilating, cursing or saying things like “oy” alot, you might want to listen to the chart. Most likely the charts are right— but there is a difference between being obese and morbidly obese. I think regular obesity means you are at the category of risk for major disease and short lifespan (according to insurance charts). Morbid obesity means that you are past the “risk” stage and your unhealthy body is actively killing you already (or you look morbidly ugly).

  • Chammy Porkstein September 18, 2008, 6:18 PM

    I want to see more clothing sizes that reflect obesity. I don’t know women size as well so someone else can fill it in.

    For an average Jewish man of 5’9″:

    Chunky- waist of 38 inches
    Husky- waist of 40 inch
    Stout- waist of 42 inch
    Pudgy- waist of 44 inch
    Obese- waist of 46 inch
    Huge- waist of 48 inch
    Morbidly obese- 50 inch
    Avalanch- over 50 inch

  • Shevers September 18, 2008, 7:53 PM

    No I’m serious, I don’t even look so overweight. I can easily walk a mile in 20 minutes without being out of breath. I probably walk it faster. I used to live a mile and a half from shul and it took me 40 minutes.

    I have a lot of muscle mass. My BMI is 30 which is the beginning of obese but I’m telling you the charts aren’t legit. Either that or my bathroom scale is broken and I weigh less than I think.

  • Chavi September 18, 2008, 7:58 PM

    Listen, look at my blog, look at my photos, I don’t LOOK obese. I can walk a 15 minute mile, no problem. Faster if I’m really flying … I don’t run because of, well, various reasons. My BMI is supposedly 34, which is edging on morbid obesity. But really, if you look at me? No, not so much. How’s that work exactly? No frickin’ clue.

    So get over it.

  • Chavi September 18, 2008, 7:59 PM

    AND I GO LETTERBOXING! That involves hiking for hours. Nothing winds me … argh. This blog post and the comments piss me off.

    I’m freakin’ healthier than a lot of thin people I know. I work out regularly. ARGH.

    Darn you Frum Satire.

  • shevers September 19, 2008, 7:55 AM

    Haha I meant to write I used to live 2 and a half miles from shul and it took me twenty minutes…

  • Phil September 19, 2008, 8:00 AM

    All this back and forth over a few pounds. I know many people that work out and exercise on a regular basis that are heavier than other people I know that are always dieting.Does that make them less healthy? The answer is a definite NO!
    Dieters (especially weight watchers) are usually in a bad mood (especially on Shabbos and Yom Tov when everyone is enjoying food). They tend to get sick or cold a lot faster, and many are anemic bordering anorexic. Furthermore, many actually lose muscle mass when dieting, as well as many essential nutrients and vitamins.
    All this to “look good” in tight clothing.

    Young people tend to see only outer beauty, that’s just the way it is. At 18-20 years old, you can’t expect any better. The media is always pushing thin as beautiful, so what else can we expect?

  • Dofan Akuma September 19, 2008, 11:17 AM

    shua,
    just want to formally put out there that i respect what you say in post 40

  • Anonymous September 19, 2008, 11:37 AM

    Chavi is the bomb! Just saying!

  • Chammy Porkstein September 19, 2008, 11:54 AM

    People pack it in various ways. You got your love handles, saddle bags, cottage cheese legs, jelly rolls, pancake stack chins, “caution wide load ahead” behinds, fat busting out of skin forehead, saggy flabby big and baggy arms, etc.

  • Dovid September 19, 2008, 12:36 PM

    I am a bigger guy and do not seek thin girls at all, Susanne. I actually like bigger girls, and I am a very sweet, nice mentsch. It is not easy dating in the frum community, and it seems that if you pursue higher education or identify as Modern Orthodox (meaning you value a college education, read novels, go to movies, etc.), as I do, in a place such as Brooklyn, it is all the more difficult. You are a gorgeous and absolutely beautiful girl, Susanne. I can’t speak for the jerks out there, but to me, a “bigger” girl is beautiful and sexy. Too bad I can’t meet any.

  • Dovid September 19, 2008, 4:36 PM

    I actually think that bigger girls are beautiful and sexy. I do see beauty on the inside, and I think that HaShem makes every bas yisroel a beautiful malkah, regardless of her weight. Susanne, you are a very beautiful and gorgeous young lady, and any man would be lucky to have you. That being said, I have yet to acutally meet any frum girls who don’t care about the externals of a man. Even though I am a big guy, I have very Mediterranean features and I am very handsome. I do not seek out thin girls at all, and like I said, I like bigger, more volutpuous girls than thin girls. I have yet to meet anyone like this; Susanne, maybe we should talk sometime.

  • Anonymous September 19, 2008, 7:35 PM

    you can say that again

  • Frum Satire September 20, 2008, 8:15 PM

    Everyone has their own taste, I myself dislike the pasty thin model girls because they all like they are ready to crumble into a pile of bones, thats just me.

  • Shevers September 20, 2008, 10:38 PM

    forty minutes… 2 and 1/2 … forty minutes.

    It doesn’t matter but mistakes bother me.

  • Shmuely Dov Baer Barilan September 21, 2008, 9:24 PM

    I like big babooshkas and I cannot lie,
    you other buchers can’t deny
    That when a meidl walks in with a big ol waist
    And a round thing in your face
    You get Frailech
    Baby got tuckes

  • Kimberley Bennett November 12, 2008, 10:49 PM

    i5t1fzh438mmlodr

  • ipitythefoo November 17, 2008, 1:32 AM

    “I never ask to see a picture, because I assume when I say I am an avid cyclist, hiker and spend more time hugging trees then anything else, its my way of saying I want someone physically active and in god shape. Not necessarily a stick, but someone who is active almost every day”

    I have to admit that I think that’s pretty funny. Just because the amount of activity doesn’t really dictate body type at all. It’s probably the difference between whether a lady or gent will maintain weigh over the course of a marriage, but I’d asume the average twenty-something is shaped more according to genetics or eating habits. Like I always say “She suffers from over-exposure to lipids.”

    Anyhow – I used to run 2 hrs day/ 6 days a week (I only eased up to work longer hours)… I would hike all the time if I didn’t live in the city (Truthfully I hate this damn metropolis) and I am a pretty solid biker. But I am not going to be buying size Small any time soon. You should be more precise about what you are looking for…

  • Frum Satire November 17, 2008, 9:33 AM

    I am more precise- this post was only scraping the surface- but to me “being in shape” doesn’t nec mean they are skinny- I would rather someone who can hike 20 miles a day with a full pack then some anorexic smoker who clouldn’t walk 3 without going into shock.

  • Jenny November 19, 2008, 11:30 PM

    Maybe this girl didn’t consider the fact that it may not have been her weight that turned him off, but some other feature she possesses?
    Beauty is relative. One girl may be hott to one guy, but ugg to the next. Everyone sees people differently. Some guys just don’t happen to be attracted to overweight girls, and you can’t fault them for that.
    You can’t get on someone’s butt for not wanting to date because of physical reasons. You have to be attracted to the person you’re dating or marrying. Of course you should look at a girl’s personality, but be honest here people. Looks matter to some extent.

    There are several “definitions,” of overweight in the dating circle, you have, chunky, heavy, extra meat, etc. So when a guy hears this, he’s thinking is she 20 pounds overweight or is she 70 pounds overweight. They never give a clear cut description of the girl, because they don’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings.
    There are tons of guys attracted to overweight &/or obese women. Like I said, beauty is ALL relative.

    Although, nowadays, people do call women size 6 “FAT.” You have to understand. Sizes mean crapp. If a girl is taller she may be a bigger size, but have a nice body. Also depends on the build of a person.
    When people asked me what my size is, telling them I’m a 12, they categorize me as, “FAT.” What they don’t know is, that I’m a size 12 in kids. hehehe It gets them all the time, and it just cracks me up. The clothing size of a girl doesn’t really mean a whole lot.

    What ever happened to the hourglass figure? I personally think women with that body are hott.

  • Frum Satire November 19, 2008, 11:32 PM

    Thank you Jenny for that long and insightful comment- you also forgot to mention that some stores make the sizes smaller to make you feel good about yourself.

  • Jenny November 19, 2008, 11:54 PM

    Frum Satire – That’s soooo true. Even the so called, “teen,” stores have sizes that you know are way off!

    Who cares about sizes! Just be comfy. People get so fixated on the pant size, they forget that they have to wear that thing all day long. Why suffer in something you gotta hold your breath to squeeze into? Pants and skirts definitely gota be loose in my book. Unless you’re trying to show off your booty, that’s another story 🙂

  • Frum Satire November 20, 2008, 12:24 AM

    Well a fine booty is nice, but I do like wearing skirts that are loose- I’m into the whole flower child skirt thing- wait did I just say I wear skirts.

  • Jenny November 20, 2008, 1:13 AM

    Not only that, but you’re the number, “69,” poster. hehehe

  • Another Anonymous November 20, 2008, 3:26 PM

    You are never going to believe this. I am currently in a public computer lab and was just approached/talked up by a blind man who, after speaking with me, took my hand and immediately commented “–Oh, yes — you sounded slender….”

    Having just read this post (literally, *seconds* before), I asked him if people ever sound fat (“Yes”), or sound fat who aren’t (“More often than you think”). He turned to leave and then said “You know, some fat girls have very pretty voices. . . . ”

    This girl would have a field day with that. Also, maybe she wants to look into what could be a very lucrative career as either a phone sex operator or escort to the visually-impaired.

    (And before I get called out for being snide towards the plight of the blind, I wear contacts, ok? Everyone calm down.)

  • Future Druggie November 24, 2008, 10:38 PM

    Morbidly obese people tend to:

    1. Breathe heavily
    2. Talk slower
    3. Have pinkish tinge even when in resting position

  • none of ur buisness December 14, 2008, 6:40 PM

    im not in the same boat as that girl, but i do feel her pain and i do feel that mans pain! it seems like they BOTH deserve a good healthy relationship! but if i were that girl @ the time when she was looking for a guy…i would have lost some weight (in a healthy way) gotten new HOT clothes and gotten a SEXY haircut and then posted a picture of myself! but she just kinda set herself out for failure! u always have to be confedint and looking sharp!

  • Baruch Atta December 23, 2008, 1:45 PM

    Yes, I read the original article. And the magazine does have a letters but I doubt that they would print this reply.
    Here we have someone, probably a very nice girl, who is complaining that she doesnt have good enough looks to impress a boy. Being fat is not really the issue, although the girl thinks it is. Maybe she is right, but it is not the issue. Believe me, every girl thinks she isnt gorgous enough. And every boy thinks he is.
    In this particular case, the girl is “rejected” and thinks its because she is fat. Maybe her eyes are too close together. Maybe she has thin lips. Maybe a long horsey face. Whatever it is, 95% of girls have SOMETHING not perfect. This is just the way it is. Sorry Girls.
    Its not the boy’s fault that he declined after seeing a photo. Thats why he wanted to see a photo. Cause he judges by looks. And he must be looking for a girl in the top 5% of perfection. For his own selfish reasons.
    Girls, get over it. Thats the way some boys are. It is no different when girls are looking for only Top Top Yeshiva buchers, great learners, yichus, money, destined to be great rabonim. Girls complain “there arent enough GOOD guys out there…” Sure, not the kind you are looking for. So it works both ways.
    And anyway, stunning looks for a girl can be used as a weapon. Why do you think its called “stunning” or “drop dead” looks? Girls know this, and act accordingly.
    I was once at a 5th grade thing, and I commented to the teacher that that girl was very pretty. The teacher said “Yes and she knows it”. They all know it. And the non-stunning girls know it too. And the non-stunning girls wish they had it. And they write complaining letters to WWW magazines.

  • mazeartist January 18, 2009, 5:59 PM

    Like Batya (love her blog), I also met my bashert at a Jewish event, namely a Hillel student trip. No shadchans, no references.

  • Anonymous February 10, 2009, 10:26 PM

    How do you know that she’s now happily married?

  • Frum Satire February 10, 2009, 10:42 PM

    I have absolutely no idea – but you know how Heimishe publications work, the person telling you your wrong always ends up happy and the other person goes to hell or cherem.

  • OrthoEbonyJewessNJ February 12, 2009, 8:05 PM

    This discussion has been hilarious.

  • Talmudist February 13, 2009, 2:55 PM

    Classic Where/What/When piece.

  • Mark February 22, 2009, 4:34 PM

    The BMI calculation doesn’t work well for athletes or people that maintain high levels of strength. For example, about 15-25% of NBA players are in the “bad” range of BMI though they are clearly in great shape! And almost all bodybuilders have a “bad” BMI, and look to be in great shape (though many aren’t really in great health for various reasons).

    And it also doesn’t work well for people somewhat out of the average height ranges. An example would be short guys (me) or gals that work out.

  • Carole April 5, 2009, 6:07 PM

    test

  • Carole April 5, 2009, 6:54 PM

    You know there are morbidly obese porn stars who are making very good money with their films, so there must be many a man out there who appreciate weight on a woman. Too, there are other causes to weight problems then overeating. One can have thyroid problems, an eating disorder, take drugs that cause weight gain, have physical problems that make it difficult to exercise, etc. It is a pretty shallow person who wants to have a relationship with someone of the opposite sex based primarily on physical appearances.

    I am old, not so beautiful anymore and never married. I have never met a man who was able to see or recognize that I had a soul, that I had feelings, likes and dislikes. When younger I used to be “Drop Dead Gorgeous” and I never went on a date where the man didn’t try to make an unwanted advance on me. It is just as hurtful to be seen as nothing more than a sexual play thing by some man as it is to be seen as too ugly, fat, tall, short, etc.

    For someone to see just the shell that encases your soul and never even try to find out who G-d created you to be is very painful. To know someone cares more about the physical you than the real you is a very hurtful thing. That someone could be so selfish and unkind is hard for many to comprehend, especially if you are spiritual versus just religious.

    Being religious doesn’t automatically make you righteous. Being labeled religious doesn’t make it morally right for you to offend someone and be insensitive. Being labeled religious doesn’t mean you are perfect either. People who want a solid, life-long relationship with someone want to get to know the real you, know that you have a soul.

    Everyone eventually looses their youth. We all physically change over time. Someone who is thin today, could be obese tomorrow. Someone obese today, could be thin tomorrow. Someone who is tall could get osteporosis and get shorter over time. Someone with lots of hair today, could be bald tomorrow.

    Someone who has no morals and has one sexual relation after another figures out eventually that having a soul mate is much better than having a play mate. They figure out that the benefits of shomer negia far out weigh the negatives of it. And women, a man cannot be your soul mate if he cannot even recognize that you have a soul. And, if you are like me, you realize that it is better to never marry than to marry someone who only wants you for their own selfish reasons. I don’t know about you, but G-d didn’t create me to be some man’s play thing or sexual toy. I have a soul, G-d said so, and G-d doesn’t lie.

  • Carole April 5, 2009, 6:55 PM

    test again

  • Carole April 5, 2009, 6:56 PM

    okay, I tried to leave a comment and it doesn’t go through, so goodby.

  • Phil April 5, 2009, 8:52 PM

    Carole,

    Physical intimacy is a key part to any good marriage. If one spouse finds the other one repulsive, they will eventually resent them. Why on earth would anyone want to date or marry someone they aren’t attracted to?

  • Hornball April 5, 2009, 9:49 PM

    I like plus sized gals. More cushion for the pushin’…;)

  • Carole April 6, 2009, 12:35 AM

    Okay, just came back to my computer after awhile and didn’t close out anything prior and found that my one post is now there. Wonder if my longer post is going to show up. Don’t know. But why on earth would someone want to date or marry someone that only wants them for physical intimacy? If one spouse finds the other is just using them as a sex toy and couldn’t care less about if they find it pleasureable or not, they will eventually resent them.

    In a healthy marriage physical intimacy is just one part of a good marriage. If you don’t even know your spouse’s full name, for example, I doubt you have a good marriage. And I’m sorry, when I used to date, my personal dating preferences where to find a man who would at least wait until the second date before trying to have such physical intimacy with me. But then there were those men when I went clubing who didn’t even want to wait for a first date. Why any man would think a woman would just do it on the dance floor, in public, is beyond me.

    I wasn’t particularly physically attracted to men a foot or more shorter than me, but if I were to find that he was the one that really loved me for other than my physical beauty, then I would find that attractive and then we could be physically intimate because it would have been a mutual thing then. But even those short men only saw me as a sexual play thing.

    As you might have guessed by now, I was not raised Frum, but still there are certain things most religions, cultures, and social norms have in common. Certain dating taboos, for example. I know a number of women, myself included, that find a man’s gentlemanly behavior many times more sexy than his actual looks. How a man treats a woman can cause her to have more erotic thoughts about him than his looks could ever arise within her.

  • Sergeant J April 6, 2009, 6:42 AM

    I bet the original publisher will never publish about a guy rejected by a girl for looks, because, hey, girls (or their parents, in the uber-Frum world) can reject a guy for any reason but a guy, obviously, must accept whoever comes first, or they are somehow evil.. you know, unless there is a problem with the BS that is “Yichus”..

  • Carole April 6, 2009, 5:48 PM

    Wow, this is a pretty educational website for me. This Yichus word, WOW! I can see the problems with that spiritually speaking. Of course, if the parents lack a certain education, then they cannot pass it along to their children. Girl’s if you are rejecting some guy because of his looks, you might want to think again, he may be wonderful in all other ways that may make you one of the happiest women alive. Just because a guy looks great, doesn’t mean he is going to treat you good. He may be a man who still throws temper tantrums like a two-year old. He may punch holes in the drywall when he gets angry. He may punch you when he is angry. He may be someone extremely difficult for you to communicate with and be friends with.

    Girls you are supposed to consider his soul, same as he. Guys do have feelings, too. Maybe they are hard to comprehend at times, but they have them. And the majority of people have some good physical features about them that one could compliment them on. But a marriage based on the priorities of pedigree and physical features is not going to be the best of marriages, unless you both really have your noses super high up in the air that this is all you both care about in life. I cannot see that attitude being Torah driven, however.

  • Carole April 7, 2009, 1:56 AM

    Thought I should come back and clarify my one posting about Yichus. I myself have Jewish ancestry on my mother’s side. I did not learn of such until I was in my late 20’s, however, when I went on a trip to Israel and my maternal grandmother then went into a story about one of our Jewish ancestors who imigrated to Palestine in the 1870’s and her grandfather going to visit him in the 1920’s. Then I said to her, so we are Jewish? Then my grandmother, whom I never saw even angry in my life, suddenly goes Postal on me and starts yelling at me how Jewish is a religion and not a race. Now I have no idea why she went so Postal.

    I know my grandfather, her husband, was one who did not believe in religion of any kind and my own mother never said anything about G-d all the time I was growing up, so maybe that was why. I also know that there was some major money issue that broke up some of the family, or it could be because of other issues, I don’t know. I did come away with the idea that grandma was going to have to personally strangle me if I came back from Israel Jewish, though. I was not brought up to be religious of any type. But I seem to have maybe a Jewish soul, love HaShem with all that is within me, and feel magnetically pulled towards being Jewish, so I have been researching being Jewish ever since. So this is part of why I am at this web site.

    I myself have also been able to trace some of my family line 20 generations, but, even with my grandmother’s maiden name of Hirsch and knowing that they came out of Germany I am not able to trace my Jewish roots as I do not have many first names, or even last names, to go by and one can only research so much on the internet, one has to go to Germany for some information. Then post-WWI how many Jewish records remain? I might be distantly related to Rabbi Samson Raphael Hirsch for all I know. But I tell you this so I can clarify my position on Jewish pedigree and that if one has a holier than thou attitude about one’s pedigree and only wants to marry someone with a similar pedigree I cannot see that attitude being Torah driven.

    Your Jewish pedigree does not automatically make you righteous, nor does it necessarily dictate who your life partner should be. Maybe the one you reject is the one G-d desired for you? There are things one should consider besides looks and pedigree when choosing a life partner.

  • UkrainianGirls April 9, 2009, 5:04 AM

    I think that it is a very interesting and amusing article. Practically all its main points are true.

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