I just had to write about this because unlike the comments on Vos Iz Neias I happen to think this story is hilarious.
The news headlines say a Yeshiva University literature professor left two years ago as a man and came back today as a women. Now that is just plain funny, the comments on Vos Iz Neias are basically saying that this person should be locked up, or that YU should shutter its doors, and the regular rabid right wing stuff that comes out of peoples mouths before they realize that not only frum Jewish people are reading their comments- frankly I find it pretty interesting and funny and sad at the same time. I understand the moral majority and their craziness- but this dude or dudette is a freaking Literature Professor- I mean what do you expect from reading Jane Austin and Adrienne Rich, its not like he’s a Rabbi or something.
Then again it is a yeshiva and has been moving more to the right. In fact I heard Rabbi Willig speak this shabbos in Riverdale and actually enjoyed it quite a bit- he is a really interesting guy. But then again, YU can’t do anything because of the ACLU which the media loves and so you will have to deal with it.
Oh and he/she teaches at Stern so now all the stern girls can find out what its like to have a penis, that much information is worth it. I think this person should teach kallah classes over there.
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I’m signing up for his/er’s kallah classes right now! Great story Hesh. Hadn’t heard. Never been prouder of being a Stern alum.
A friend of mine wondered where the issues of Yichud lie……and with WHOM…..
This is like the people who walk through Meah Shearim clothed inapproriately. While most people don’t agree with the standards of modesty there, truly progressive people should appreciate right, left, and everyone in between. That includes being sensitive to cultural norms and other people’s needs. YU’s or Meah Shearim’s values should be considered as much as a tranny’s or yours or mine.
No need to comment on whether transgenderism, homosexuality, or any other form of sexual deviance or other issue is right or wrong. The point is that we should be as sensitive and as accepting of other people as possible – in both directions. Politics and incitement have already hurt our people enough.
I don’t know what is the big deal? What is important to know is how she grades.
I think it is wonderful that Joy has been able to become the person that she is. As amny people do not know, she did not choose this for herself. It is an unfortunate birth defect that her brain developed as a female and her body did not. Evidence of deceased trans women has show this to be a fact! Any other birth defect we as a society would try to fix, so why should this be any different! Is it not true that the good Lord our God created us in his image and that he doesn’t make junk. He must have had a very good reason to create so many people with this afliction.The native Americans placed very high regard on these people because they felt that anyone transgendered was special as they had two spirits. Joy, welcome to the sisterhood of women!
You really think that reading Jane Austen would make a man want to change into a woman? You cannot be serious. My husband would have queened out on me years ago.
Wow. Just read the comments at Vos Is Neias. They are indeed funny, but I am also kind of embarrassed by them. It does not make us frummies appear very intelligent – or even able to string together a coherent sentence.
Clearly this is a legal issue. It is not so easy to get rid of a tenured professor. The university’s hands are tied here. It is not too hard to figure that out. It seems to me like a bunch of right-wingers are just looking for another opportunity to YU bash.
Hesh, through this post you have introduced me to Vos Is Neias. Thank you. I read the posts on that site with disdain and disgust. If they weren’t so sad they would be funny. But it reminds me why I am not frum.
Meira, clearly you are not a frummy since you are posting on this blog and not on that neias site. Not to doubt your religiousity of course, but I find that most frummiess tend to have very narrow minds.
I heard that the mayor of my town or the neighboring town was a transgender. No big deal.
It’s legal stuff. I would like to add, though, that– putting aside the transgender issue–I would not put an employer of mine for whom I had worked for so long in such a position. If I respected them and the values that a religious institution (and it is one!) stand for, I would not have done this to them. And many of the teachers I know actually do care about the schools in which we teach so it isn’t so ridiculous to expect that of this person. That is the shame of it all, in my opinion.
What many people fail to realize is that just because he/she works for YU does not mean he/she has to express all of the religious views of YU. A great number of their staff are non-religious jews or non-jews and what the hatred spewing commenter’s on vosizneias are forgetting is that a professors religious choice has little or nothing to do with his or her teaching ability. I am a student in the YU system, and I’m sure my teachers would be absolutely appalled if the students expressed such disgust as the commenters on vosizneias are.
I thin everyone realizes he or she does not have to express the religious views of YU. We are lucky the Yeshiva World News didn’t take up the story- because the commenters on that site are a little more brainless if that is possible.
Vos Iz Neias at least covers stories like this while YWN filters anything that makes frum Jews look bad.
The idea that someone should just give up their job because some people have religious objections is like saying that someone should give up their life because some people don’t like the way it’s being lived. You want to kick everyone out who violates Shabbos, or eats traif, or who wears shatnez? Job discrimination is one reason transgender people often wind up homeless or in some illegal trade. Every person is created equal and has a right to fair treatment, even if they don’t follow 613 mitzvos. If you’re one of the few tzaddikim in this world, then you could maybe talk.
I graduated from YC in 1979. As a baal tshuva, the frum community was not very tolerant of me either. There was a lot of turned up noses at my non-frum family. A lot of holier than thou types. Thank goodness I was able to hold off my gender dysphoria until I was in my 30s. I do have friends who have transitioned and live in the frum community. Prejudice and discrimination is something that needs to be addressed in the frum community. I know people are shouting “aveira aveira” but that doesn’t justify any kind of hateful words and deeds.
Dr. Weiss I agree with you wholeheartedly and have written on the issue, but its going to be rough ride. The frum community is trying to fend off anything antithetical to its values and even though one may think hatred is antithetical- hatred is justified by many when its against something that may be assur according to the torah.
Of course child molestation and things behind closed doors are behind closed doors and hence not talked about. Racism is a live and well in the frum community as is homopheobia and all that sort of thing and will likely remain that way forever.
I have one question: Would any of you mind if a transgender male to female wanted to babysit for your children?
Honestly, now, would you give such a person the same amount of trust that you would give a female-born-female?
He did not castrate himself! All he did was take hormone shots.
Is he really considered a female?
If you people open up your minds any wider your brains will fall out.
Sheesh people. A frum school has every right to make sure its staff adheres to some modicum of its values. His personal narishkeit is his business I guess. Although you could definitely argue differently. But when he’s being put in an influential teaching position over frum kids, there is a big problem.
And let the lynching begin..
Hopeless- I don’t have kids but as far as I am concerned it makes no difference what the person does in the bedroom (unless its little kids) or what they have for plumbing.
Nah no lynching chossid I agree- but Yeshiva University is an official school and unlike some little yeshiva in Borough park they cannot just go and fire some dude for getting a sex change. It would be much worse for them if they did something like that- besides he/she has tenure. The person obviously knew this sort of fiasco would happen.
Is YU officially a “frum school” anyway? They have an LGBT branch don’t they and you don’t have to be frum to attend. Its a college that happens to b e Jewish- although the graduate school is not all Jews.
Ok. I have to clarify this. I don’t think the Professors at Y.U. need to live according to any religious tenets. I am getting at a different issue. I care about my job and when I work at a place for a number of years, I care about the school. I know people who work in businesses that are run by religious people who are not religious and who have a certain respect for the values of the people who run that place and who people it. I think it is sad that she waited for tenure and then socked it to them this way. I think that if I were her I would have had a bit more respect for the religious values that are presented in the very masthead of the school in which I am teaching and I would have evaluated the direction which my life was headed and changed to a purely secular institution. To the YU guy above: Y.U. is a Torah U’Madah institution. Torah is part of the package and while she may have a legal leg to stand on, she doesn’t have a moral one (and I don’t mean her gender choice, Ms. Weiss). I mean just basic common courtesy. It stinks and I don’t think she carries a noble flag. Personally if I were someone with a gender issue that would marginalize me already to a corner where many people cast stones, I would choose to behave ethically toward others to the highest degree to prove something. She failed.
A Catholic college, such as St. John’s University, would insist on its right to uphold it’s religious values. I don’t see why a Jewish college should be different.
Right on, Maureen. Thanks for that. And even if they felt they had to cave, where is her moral compass? Why doesn’t she have any respect for what that institution stands for? I would have thought that a transgendered person would want to be a good example of moral strength. I know that we Orthodox Jews are supposed to be extra careful about our choices. Tenure and then a punch squarely in the jaw. Not nice.
We used to be obligated to stone “even” a mechalel shabbos bfursam. But that was when we understood the implications and consequences of our actions. Today people don’t know any better and assume that hey if the urge is natural than it must be good. This kind of twisted thinking is a sign of the the times we live in – ikvos dmishicha, the darkest state of the world before the ultimate light of geulah and moshiach, may it happen speedily in our days.
utubefan wrote: (and I like you, utubefan, I really do, I just disagree with you on this one) —If I respected them and the values that a religious institution (and it is one!) stand for, I would not have done this to them. —
DONE THIS to them? She didn’t ask to be born in a man’s body. If she worked in a supermarket, would you have the same reaction? What if it was a kosher supermarket?
What she did (not “coming out” until after she had tenure) was 1. smart (for her job security); 2. important, ’cause having gained tenure, no one could get her canned for not being a good teacher.
What’s moral strength? Moral strength is having compassion for others who are born differently than us, who struggle with not feeling like they’re in the right gender’s skin. People who are transgendered and people who are homosexuals do not choose to feel the feelings they do. (They may or may not choose to act on them, but that is not something appropriate for doing in the workplace, so it’s not an issue, here).
I can understand some people having yichud concerns, as she did not have an operation removing her most male parts and has a wife. I realize that other people’s beged ish is a very real concern for some observant people.
But other than one-on-one meetings with students, this shouldn’t be an issue. I don’t think that anyone who has struggled with this issue would wish it on anyone or encourage anyone who doesn’t already have the same feelings to adopt that lifestyle. It is often a tortured and lonely one. For her own career’s protection, she probably shouldn’ t meet with students one-on-one without the door open, but I think that’s probably smart for any professor.
well, the story hit yeshiva world news. http://www.theyeshivaworld.com/news/General+News/23212/YU!+This+is+Why+You.html
surprisingly, not all of the comments are narrow and inflammatory
CHOSSID:
“A frum school has every right to make sure its staff adheres to some modicum of its values.”
it’s a pretty dangerous suggestion to make that religious standards should be applied to the workplace. although it may not seem like it in brooklyn, remember that we are the minority in this country. we have the most to lose from such a policy.
MAUREEN:
bulloney. st. john’s and YU both receive more $ than you can imagine in federal funding. neither can risk losing all that $ because of discrimination (whether or not you personally consider this discrimination is besides the point).
i guess the truth is YU could give up the money and make it back by doing what some yeshivas have done in the past . . .
Now I’m a pretty tolerant guy, but if I choose to send my child to an institution that has frum jewish ideas, then I expect the staff will be supportive of those ideas both in and out of the class. So what if it’s a poetry class. And just because you have the convictions of your faith doesn’t mean you are a whacko. Do I have friends who are religious that are shall we say different? yes. But once you come out in public, it’s like slapping people across the face. If I were to decide I can openly eat treif, and still be frum, would you want me as your role model? I’ll tolerate this guys decision, but to make it seem as if there is no problem is a problem within itself. To accept it without comment is ridiculous.
Hey Tzip – they posted it because they realized how much traffic they were missing out on- YWN works with SEO and they “regret” is such BS it kills me. They would have never reported it had Vos Iz Neias not gotten so much traffic. But fear not- they are not even on the first page of google. I am #2- yay
i figured YWN would just post it since its an easy way to bash YU and anything else not in their minute worldview. Not sure how the (Rav) Tendler bashing fits in with this story, but hey why not. And i love how they all say that this is much much worse than the kolko story.
as much as it sickens me to read all the comments there, i keep getting drawn back. not sure if its for the entertainment value, or to make me feel better about myself that as messed up as i think i am, there’s a whole segment of the population that is beyond messed up.
Pity we’re all going to boost YWN’s readership (myself included). I just love their beginning:
It pains us to post the following editorial submitted to YWN, but we were left with no alternative……
s(b), “She didn’t ask to be born in a man’s body. ”
Ok. I don’t care if she feels she was born in a man’s body. If she was my professor in college, I would find it interesting and then I would move on and either learn or be bored like I was in 90% of my college classes. But I didn’t attend a university with the prefix “Yeshiva.” So, much as I would hope she wouldn’t sit down to a cheeseburger and eat it in the class (legally, she could, though, couldn’t she?) , I would hope that if she was making a physically obvious lifestyle choice that would conflict with the values of the YESHIVA University, that she might opt to work elsewhere. Not because she had to and not because her life should be made even more uncomfortable, but because it would be as that Grimley guy used to say about the oatmeal: “It’s the right thing to do.” Guess what I don’t like about the Gay/Lesbian/Bi and Transgendered movements (and I am aware of their differences). I don’t like their “in your face” methods. As an Orthodox Jew who is a small minority of the population and whose religious choice causes me to look different than others (sound familiar?) I am aware of how I am perceived by others and I choose my environments wisely. I think she has the right to be whatever she wants to be (this is America, after all), but I do think that she and others with lifestyle choices that are deemed to conflict with the values of some, should choose their work environments sensitively. Tolerance, you know. It’s not about reeducating society which many in the transgendered, gay, lesbian and bi movements think it is.
I guess YU has the right to hire or anyone they want to, despite their personal beliefs or oter social issues.
I could see how in the present politically correct world, it would be considered wrong to fire someone for having taken hormone shots or sliced off their penis, but personaly, I would fire this individual along with any other “deviant” or “delinquents” if I were running an establishemnt that calls itself a yeshiva.
Furthermore, I suggest that they hire as many frum Jews as possible for any teaching position in order to set an example to their future graduates that will hopefully own their own businesses down the line. So many Jews have a hard time earning a living, is it OK to hire idol worshippers, anti semites or other undesirables instead of our own? Are these the people we want educating the future generation?
Just my own version of “affirmative action”.
Phil, he did not slice off his organ. He left it there. Maybe he plans on going back to being a guy again?
Will they have to install a new bathroom for trangender people, too?
phil wrote: So many Jews have a hard time earning a living, is it OK to hire idol worshippers, anti semites or other undesirables instead of our own? Are these the people we want educating the future generation?
———————-
Are you comparing someone’s neurological difference from me or you to worshipping idols, being anti-semitic or calling such people undesireable? Ladin is not teaching the laws of niddah. Ladin is teaching literature. Epilepsy is also something people are born with and do not choose. Should Jewish epileptics not be hired to teach because they might have a seizure in front of students? Ladin isn’t going to lift skirt in front of students. If you discriminate based on neurological matters, you’re messing with a lot of people.
In my Stern days (just 2 years-dropped out) it was announced that some shiksas were in our class, as “test cases,” to dare YU to reject them and then lose state money.
Once they weren’t thrown out, I think they left on their own.
With this hormonally it, I think that the toilet business is the most serious. It shouldn’t use the ladies room and would freak out the men in the men’s room. Do they have a “unisex” handicapped wc?
Not long ago, there was that it from the opposite direction who had kept her female plumbing and gave birth to a baby.
I didn’t realize that this “freak” kept it’s original “plumbing” too. I guess knowing that makes it even freakier.
I can’t imagine having “he-she” as my teacher, although I can really see myself tormenting a he-she teacher of mine if I was back in my teenage years. I won’t begin to describe the endless possibilities a mischevious student can take advantage of in such a situation.
I can’t imagine how anyone that age would relate to such a person as a teacher, I would probably think of “it” more as something out of a low budget adult film, not to be taken seriously.
Although this might sound condescending to some, MR./MRS Ladin knew very well that there would be reprecussions of doing something like this especially in his/her field of work. If he thought he was a she in a man’s body, I feel that a good shrink could have done the job.
To SB:
Nothing wrong with an epileptic, they have physical disease that doesn’t affect their ability to think properly.
This case is purely psychological. There is no such thing as a woman physically trapped in a man’s body, it’s all in the mind. What if your teacher thought he was Moshe Rabbenu or Napoleon trapped in the 21st century. Would you support him or would you have him committed to the “loony bin”?
Technically I think they could fire this teacher based on a 2 dress code violations:
1.) men can’t wear breasts
2.) women cant wear a shvantz
No Comment.
s(b.) i would love to see you respond to utubefan’s nice response.
If my teacher thought he was Moshe Rabbenu or Napoleon, I would know he probably has undiagnosed temporal lobe epilepsy. lol
Why are you anyone to say what’s in the mind? Do you realize that chronic psychological illnesses are neurologically based? That’s not to say that people don’t have mishegas, that’s to say that the tendency to have mishegas is neurological in nature, not something people choose. How people treat (or don’t treat) it is up to them.
And do you seriously think that any man would get breast implants on purpose or live his life outside the house as a woman on purpose? It’s not easy being a woman. Shaving alone takes way more time than it does for a man. I don’t think that anyone would go through such effort if they didn’t really feel like a woman trapped in a man’s body (especially the breast implants). I don’t blame Ladin for not having surgery on the genital area. Knives/lasers and down there are not a pleasant thought.
utubefan, I don’t think the “lifestyle choice,” as you called it, is meant to be physically obvious. If I hadn’t read the article, I wouldn’t have known from a picture of her that she had man parts under her skirt. And there is no reason for any student to see what’s under a professor’s skirt (odd medical emergencies notwithstanding).
I don’t know if cheeseburgers are permitted by university policy on campus at YU, but I don’t think that having tenure would allow a professor to bring them for lunch, if they are not permitted. Isn’t part of signing a contract to work on a campus to follow campus rules? I don’t know. I’m not in education.
“As an Orthodox Jew who is a small minority of the population and whose religious choice causes me to look different than others (sound familiar?) I am aware of how I am perceived by others and I choose my environments wisely.”
The NY Post article begins: A Yeshiva University professor left two years ago as a man – and returned last week as a woman.
Taking the time off does (to me) reflect an awareness of how she is perceived by others. I reckon that most current literature students won’t remember her as a male professor.
I don’t know who has been in your face about stuff, but I’m sorry you’ve had negative experiences related to that. One thing you wrote upon which I believe we both can agree appears below.
“Tolerance, you know.”
Could she have chosen her work environment more sensitively? Perhaps. I have no idea what the job market for literature professors is like.
I do feel that as long as Ladin is married to a woman that Ladin should use a unisex/handicapped restroom. If one is not available on campus, one should be made available (this is an ADA concern).
Sb
A unisex bathroom in a yeshiva? Just doesn’t sound right to me, then again I’ve never been to YU.
I don’t think this individual qualifies as a handicap, do you think he/she can get a handicap parking permit based on his/her “condition”?
BTW, I imagine that this individual would still be considered a man by halachic standards, and once upon a time would be chayav malkus for crossdressing and a number of other related halachic violations (assuming he/she is Jewish).
There should be unisex handicapped restrooms available EVERYWHERE to accommodate (sp?) people in wheelchairs. These restrooms should also have baby-changing tables that fold down. This way, if a single parent is traveling with an infant, the baby’s diaper can be changed privately. Such restrooms should also have a bench on which a nursing mother may sit while breastfeeding/expressing breast milk with a pump in privacy. I’m not saying that Ladin or anyone else dealing with such has a handicap that would qualify one for a special parking permit. I reckon that by halachic standards, penis = counted as a man. I could understand if a shul would not want to do so, if dressed as a woman, and I would equally understand if that person wouldn’t want to be counted, while dressed as a woman. (assuming that person is Jewish and in shul; that’s for people who know more than me to sort out, though. I’m certainly not anyone’s halacha police.)
I thought type of chromosome pair you have is what makes your sex and not your package. They can’t change that. Now people born with male chromosomes and female genitals have a problem (or if their hormones don’t work). Otherwise I think they are just gay men with plastic surgery.
PHIL:
“I would fire this individual along with any other “deviant” or “delinquents” if I were running an establishemnt that calls itself a yeshiva.”
i asked a question that no one responded to, so i’ll redirect it to you: if YU were to take your advice and fire this professor (and not hire any others that flaunts halakhah), how would you suggest YU compensate for the loss of millions of dollars, without which YU could not functions as an institution?
Lion:
What are you referring to by:
“how would you suggest YU compensate for the loss of millions of dollars”?
Why would YU lose anything by firing anyone?
They would lose millions because New York City has a law prohibiting employment discrimination based on “gender identity or expression.” Firing someone because of their identification with a “non-traditional” gender, as in Professor Ladin’s situation, is illegal and allows a lawsuit for monetary damages by the employee. Remember when YU didn’t allow the gay couple to room together at Einstein? They spent a lot of money and then lost that one too and had to settle for big bucks.
Dr. Weiss,
I wasn’t aware of any gay couples at YU either, I’m Canadian and don’t usually read the news much, especially American news.
Seems like the political correctness laws have affected YU jst like they would any other university. So much for it being an actual Yeshiva as it’s name would sugest.
I wonder why they aren’t more careful about who they accept. I’ve never heard of any yeshiva allowing gays or other transgressors of serious aveiros to remain as part of the yeshiva. In fact, I know of many people including myself that were booted out of the system for much simpler things such as movies, contact with girls, non Jewish music, smoking, etc.
According to what you’re saying, we should all be able to sue the yeshiva in a class action suit for discriminating against our religious / hashkafic beliefs, as well as being normal hor ny teenagers.
Let’s take it a step further and have them accept girls, co-ed dorms and start selling cheeseburgers on campus, as we wouldn’t want to discriminate against people that don’t believe in kosher, lest they be sued by burger king.
What a load of garbage, a yeshiva that calls itself a yeshiva should be forced to act like a yeshiva.
Sorry if I’m politically incorrect, or stepped any any liberal toes.
Dr. Weiss,
I wasn’t aware of any gay couples at YU either, I’m Canadian and don’t usually read the news much, especially American news.
Seems like the political correctness laws have affected YU jst like they would any other university. So much for it being an actual Yeshiva as it’s name would sugest.
I wonder why they aren’t more careful about who they accept. I’ve never heard of any yeshiva allowing gays or other transgressors of serious aveiros to remain as part of the yeshiva. In fact, I know of many people including myself that were booted out of the system for much simpler things such as movies, contact with girls, non Jewish music, smoking, etc.
According to what you’re saying, we should all be able to sue the yeshiva in a class action suit for discriminating against our religious / hashkafic beliefs, as well as being normal harny teenagers.
Let’s take it a step further and have them accept girls, co-ed dorms and start selling cheeseburgers on campus, as we wouldn’t want to discriminate against people that don’t believe in kosher, lest they be sued by burger king.
What a load of garbage, a yeshiva that calls itself a yeshiva should be forced to act like a yeshiva.
Sorry if I’m politically incorrect, or stepped any any liberal toes.
(hesh, you seem to be eating my comments again?)
PHIL:
“Why would YU lose anything by firing anyone?”
in addition to the millions that YU would lose from a one-time lawsuit, it could also stand to lose many millions on an annual basis in federal funding. the combined effect would be the crippling of the institution.
so i’ll ask you again, how would you recommend that YU compensate for these losses and enable its continued existence?
“I wonder why they aren’t more careful about who they accept.”
what is it that you don’t understand? there are laws that prohibit discrimination. plain and simple. you may not like it, but that’s the way it is.
“What a load of garbage, a yeshiva that calls itself a yeshiva should be forced to act like a yeshiva.”
do you really want to go there? should we consider how some other yeshivot fund their existence? and you are so concerned with how a “real” yeshivah could hire sexually-deviant faculty, but do you have any vitriol left over for yeshivot that harbor and protect pedophiles?
Lion of Zion,
Any yeshiva that hires or protects pedophiles should go to prison along wih them to get a taste of what the victims feel like, we all know what happens to pedophiles once they are behind bars.
As far a yeshiva hiring adequate faculty members, they are responsible to screen and provide people that will lead/instruct/inspire the talmidim as should be.
The lawsuits are unfortunately part and package of living in the US, so all American yeshivas need to be extra vigilant when it comes to hiring. This situation would never have happened in the pre-war yeshivas or in the original yeshivas of yerushalayim and Bavel.
Why does YU even bother calling themselves a yeshiva, they would be better off referred to as JU (Jewish University) instead. There is NOTHING yeshivalike about having transtesticles as teachers, openly gay men sharing a dorm room, or having goyim that aren’t in the giur process as part of the yeshiva.
If you are going to call yourself a yeshiva, act like one!
PHIL:
“all American yeshivas need to be extra vigilant when it comes to hiring”
i’m sorry, but i’m beginning to think you are ignoring me on purpose. i’ll say it again: in this country, for or better for worse (and believe me, as jews it is for the better), we have laws that prohibit discrimination in employment. why can’t you understand this?
“This situation would never have happened in the pre-war yeshivas or in the original yeshivas of yerushalayim and Bavel.”
how is this relevant? we don’t live in bavel or lita. we have to deal with the contemporary reality. and so i will ask you one more time, how should YU compensate for the loss of government funding that would cripple it? (yes, it’s real easy to be polemical and vitriolic without considering tachlis.)
“Why does YU even bother calling themselves a yeshiva”
YU has many divisions, including undergraduate colleges, various graduates division and an associated yeshivah (RIETS). hence Y + U = YU
“There is NOTHING yeshivalike about having transtesticles as teachers”
the professor in question does not teach in the yeshivah. and as far as teaching in the college part of YU, could you please tell me exactly which issur this professor is being over on (keep in mind that, afaik, he is not jewish). now i find this ironic, because you are infusing your ad hominems with the language of jewish morality, yet you seem to have adopted non-jewish moral categories in determining that he is a to’eva.
“openly gay men sharing a dorm room”
you are so ignorant of all the issues involved. the situation involved two gay women (which according to some sources is not an assur anyway?). furthermore, it was in the medical school and had nothing to do with frum boys and girls in YC or stern (and certainly not in the yeshivah).
“having goyim that aren’t in the giur process as part of the yeshiva.”
you know that there are non-jews in the yeshivah?
“If you are going to call yourself a yeshiva, act like one!”
oh, now this is a charge that can easily be leveled at many american yeshivot. i’ll ask you here again, do you really want to go down that path? (ve-hameivin yavin)
Can synagogues get sued for sexual harrassment for not hiring a female rabbi?
offers cold beverages of their choosing to Lion and Phil. yk, Lion. I’m so glad I’m not in charge of the definition of anything for anyone but myself. Phil, I understand how difficult it can be to deal with realizing an organization’s conduct doesn’t necessarily jive with one’s mind’s definition of that word. Offers cookies with payos to anyone who wants some (I just mean chalav yisrael, there’s no hair in them; they’re chocolate chip).
ROB:
i would assume generally no. shuls are private religious corporations.
Lion:
YU is obviously stuck in a bad position due to their lack of vigilance. This guy/gal would liklely have been canned if not for the laws that protect his/her rights. At this point, it would be “suicide” for them to try firing someone knowing that they would be sued and lose funding.
As I previously mentioned, I didn’t know about the gays or goys, I only read about them in other comments to this blog. Although lesbianism is technically considered “biah”, it is still 100% assur. I can’t imagine a frum seminary having openly lesbian students in their dorms.
Bottom line is that when REAL yeshivas and sems are strict enough to boot peple out for watching movies or reading magazines /newspapers, it seems kind of strange to have these situations arise in a place that calls itself a yeshiva.
I’ve never been to YU or seen their setup, all I know about it, is that that it has a good reputation and is quite expensive. If the all the students are forced to take yeshiva studies, I would consider it a Yeshiva as well as a university.
If they aren’t, I don’t see why anybody should care if they folow any hashkafic rules, they are no different from any other university except for the fact that they have a higher percentage of Jewish students.
Regarding other yeshivot, I agree that there are plenty of other sickening aspects that many of them can work on before having the nerve to call themselves a yeshiva. In the long run, the bottom line is to produce God fearing Orthodox jews that are able to learn. I think we can all agree on that.
The medical community has been keeping up with all of the latest trends in sexual.reassignment surgery including state of the art surgeries. Many people including your professor friend will be undergoing 1 form of surgery or another. The Albert Einstein Medical School probably has given these surgeries as well.
1.) lopitophomy
2.) addadictomy
But they ARE no different from any other uni. YU students hail from various religious, racial, and yes, SEXUAL backgrounds. It is only RIETS that is the ol’ school yeshiva (albeit Torah uMadda). Though they are affiliated, they are separate institutions.
i would like to comment on all those that think they know what transsexual women suffer and try with all their might to degrade us and consider us subhuman well hey y dont u check where these strong homophobis feelings r coming from mayb u got your own issues u r covering because most people believe in the live let live policy and noone deserves to loose their parnasah because of a condition they were born with and allowing a transsexual to transition borders on pikuach nefesh because the suicidal feelings looming endlessly inside are horroifying so if one wants to comment on gender dysphoria well first spend 5 hours searching for information on our plight and then voice an opinion not before
jessica
Jessica if you had put one period in your comment I have been able to get a better grasp on exactly what you are saying- capitalization would be nice too- I think its an important issue and I have a yeshiva buddy who is trans gender- but we have to able to understand what you wrote.
All men start out embryologically as women. (That is opposite to what Genesis teaches.) A portion of the X chromosome becomes inactivated, becoming a Y. Men’s parts are homologous to womens: ovarys become testiticles, labia become the corpus spongium, clitoris becomes the glans. Do frummies dispute the science?
If not, what’s the big deal? We all are made frum the same stuff. No one’s forcing you to change, or even question your gender identity. There is no “evil” here.
ps: I have never like tenure before, but this is probably the best defense of the tenure system I have read
i would assume generally no