Kelsey Media

Why can’t a woman be a rabbi according to orthodox Judiasm?

59 comments

I was talking with a lady friend tonight about how certain ideals are ingrained in people that grow up orthodox, and that until these ideals are challenged no one even thinks about it, and this topic came up. I was thinking about how when someone says the words “woman rabbi” I automatically have thoughts of Gloria Steinem and Diane Feinstein types burning their bras in Berkley California and also discount anything or one that has to do with women rabbis.

Now I know a bunch of you are going to dismiss this realization as some liberal hogwash, or some overexposure to JTS or just a plea for attention, but I am now seriously wondering why we orthodox Jews are so quick to judge woman rabbis. I don’t even know if there are any orthodox woman rabbis, but it seems that orthodoxy and having women as rabbis are not that incompatible.

What the heck is a Rabbi anyway?

In some situations, a Rabbi is merely a teacher with a beard who has some certificate on his wall stating that he learned gemara for long hours while his peers were off getting high and going to concerts. Some people may say the Rabbi si only so if they lead a congregation. Then you have those that think the Rabbi si a multifaceted community wide authority whom makes speeches in shul, oversees the local kasharus agency and has awkward conversations about the mikvah with newlyweds.

So besides for leading the congregation in prayer or laining what is the problem? You may say its untznius for a women to get up in front of the shul- but maybe we can profile orthodox women who wish to become rabbis by their looks. If they are all ugly we men will have no issues. But then again what happens when the Rabbi who is like a Capitan of a ship decides to take control of her crew and demand davening and laining privildges- what then? Mutiny?

I see how it can all go awry, so I guess until the women of orthodoxy go on a sex strike to demand entry into orthodox smicha programs- we probably wont have any women rabbis. Which is just as well, because women never seem to be able to deliver dvar torahs or community politics speeches with the same fiery mussar ladden fervor as men.

Thoughts to ponder if it did happen?

Would the rabbi be called a rabbi still or is she a rabbnit or rabbanis?

What would all those men who daven in the women’s section of shuls when women aren’t there do?

Who would make kiddush?

Who would lead hoshanos- surely all that butt bumping and lulav poking is untznius?

Who would sing and lead hakafos?

Who would shake peoples hands for random yasher koachs?

What do we call the husband? Rebetz?

What side of the mechitza would the rabbi speak from?

What would happen in those shuls without women’s sections?

How would the Rabbi speak in shuls where the women sit in a balcony?

I am sure there are issues to take into consideration, maybe you have some to offer.

  • http://tamaraeden.wordpress.com Tamara

    Perhaps, as an observant Conservative Jew, I shouldn’t even touch this issue. I can say this much. Growing up, a woman rabbi was an odd thing to me. I remember the first shul I went to with a woman rabbi, I never went back. It was as awkward to me as wearing a talis.

    However,even though I’ve been become more obesrvant, I’ve also realized that I have grown more than comfortable with women rabbis. I attend a quite large and very very well respected observant Conservative shul. Our congregation is filled with rabbis as members. Male and female.

    I love my female rabbi. She’s amazing. And I don’t know who told you that women can’t give fiery d’var Torahs but you are sadly mistaken. I’ve seen some amazing talks given. Sure, women have a different style but are and can be JUST as learned and powerful as men; even without it ruining the shul experience as many think.

    I understand if a person prefers a man, I used to. I understand if that’s orthodoxy’s position, then so be it. But, definitely don’t underestimate the rabbinical skills of a female rabbi. Even if conservative Judaism isn’t your movement, I think you’d be surprised.

    For the record, our shul has a membership that mostly walks to shul, within the eruv, on Shabbat. There are always three very large minyan every Saturday. Friday night minyan is amazing too. There is Torah study, kiddush, netilat, etc. It’s a serious Torah study and davening shul. The minyan we go to is not all that different than orthodoxy with the exception of no mechitza and egalatarianism. And before you ask, no, there is no music or microphones. And yes, it’s kosher.

  • some gal

    If you ever paused, and instead of listening to the women who shriek the loudest (the bra burning ones), and asked a nice young lady she will tell you that women do not want to be in charge, they fully enjoy looking up to men. I know I do.

    • Isabelle

      I’m sorry, I don’t know what sort of backwards way of life you live, but not every women wants to be dependant on a man and not have any sort of say, and we don’t have to anymore. Women are independant beings and can support themselves. This includes being able to be a rabbi if they wish. Not every women “enjoys looking up to men,” in fact, most don’t. I know I don’t.

      • http://none Carmel Tziona

        A.) Feminists NEVER burnt bras. Ever.
        B.) By definition, the people who “shriek the loudest” are the ones that want it the most – obviously someone who doesn’t shriek doesn’t want it as much. Also, technically speaking, aren’t you, some gal, shrieking by commenting here?
        C.) Yeah, well done for putting your halachic reasons and everything and not just making a ridiculous and unprovable argument.

  • http://collectivisticindividualism.blogspot.com/ Child Ish Behavior

    You have got to be kidding me. Which brand of orthodoxy will be the first to implement such a policy? Perhaps Satmar? (Now I can’t wait to go to Tish.) Maybe the Yeshivisher Velt? ( I can just imagine it, no more sleeping through the shabbos drasha) Perhaps the Sfardi yidden( Now there is some Chachamah)

    • joel

      Satmar (part of satmar, actually the more crazy extreme members) did have a female Rebbe – the Rebbetzin a”h was considered the Rebbe for the Bnei Yoel because they thought the Sigeter zt”l was too zionist for being mechutan with yblct”t the Viznitzer shlit”a

  • Heterim are for Hippies

    Being a rabbi just means you have semicha. Depending on your affiliation, it means you learned yoreh deah and probably hilchos shabbos, niddah and maybe eruvin inside the Tur/SA with the Shach and the Taz.

    Any woman can do this. I think the reason they don’t is that women don’t have the same obligation to learn. They don’t need it, spiritually speaking, and are usually busy with the (more) important business of raising a family.

  • Future Druggie

    Why do boys gravitate to building cars while girls gravitate to cooking? I think that it has something to do with the way we are wired.

    Men are wired for Gemoro. Women are wired to talk.

    • http://none Carmel Tziona

      Because of society, Future Druggie. Society has ingrained in us that those are our roles. If it was true that “men are wired for gemoro”, then why aren’t Gentile men wired like that? Are you saying that Jews are a different species to goyim?

  • http://marcl1969.wordpress.com Marc

    Therehave been a few women who received Orthodox smichah in a few instances since the 1990s. Generally there has been criticism of such moves, but personally I think we need more women that are seen in these roles especially in the ruling of questions of taharas mishpachah. I wonder how many women there are out there that would be more careful in hilchos niddah if they could get questionable checks ruled on by a female rather than a male Rabbi?

  • Dan the man

    I guess its the same with Major League Baseball?

  • chanief

    I’m with Marc on this one. In addition, I can understand why in Orthodox circles they would not want a female “Rabbi” getting up in shul to give a drasha or leading davening, but it would be nice to have female Rabbis who can answer questions, especially those of a sensitive nature.

    It’ll never happen on a widespread basis. Ever. Until the proposed sex strike at least (actually even with the proposed sex strike since there are always scabbers!!!) It’s a shame though because women are smarter than men for the most part… y’know that’s probably why it’ll never happen. We’d take over Orthodoxy and it would be a completely different world.

    • Alter Cocker

      utter nonsense

  • Sorry for being Serious…

    First of all, when it comes to asking questions regarding the Torah-no matter what topic, I would rather hear it from a man. A man’s obligation and purpose in this world as a yid is to learn torah and I would trust his seichul more then a woman’s who has no obligation or mitzvah to learn Torah but decides to contradict what it says and goes and learns gemara anyway and calls herself a Rabbi (I’m not saying woman shouldn’t learn-they should. But not like a man). And second, if for some reason a woman is not comfortable discussing nida issues with a man, they can always call their Kallah teacher, or if they dont have one they can find someone who is….
    When I think of woman rabbis I think of reform. To me, reform is not jewish.
    Men and woman were created for different purposes. If woman are able to and do the same things men do, and vice versa, there would have been no point in creating 2 types of humans. Men take charge and protect the woman and children. Women stand by the men’s side and she does her own job. In this backwards feminist liberal world pple think that men and woman can do each other’s jobs. Maybe they can, but it is not meant to be that way. (Paroh in Mitzrayim made the jews suffer by making the men do the woman’s job and the woman do the men’s job). If Hashem intended for men and woman to do the same jobs and to have the same purpose on this world then he would have only made one kind of human being. I’m not a feminist nor an anti feminist, I’m a jew who thinks that the world should be as G-d intended. The Imahos were not Rabbis for a reason. There are Rebbetzins and you can go to them with questions and advise but the job of a Rabbi is for men. Its been that way since sheishes yimeh bireishis and I think it should stay that way.

  • David

    “If you ever paused, and instead of listening to the women who shriek the loudest (the bra burning ones), and asked a nice young lady she will tell you that women do not want to be in charge, they fully enjoy looking up to men. I know I do.”

    With all due respect, this is a lousy answer. First, a rabbi doesn’t have to be “in charge” of anything– most rabbis arent. Second, if the reason that women are not permitted to become (Orthodox) rabbis is that they don’t really want to, then there’s no need to forbid it– nobody has to make a rule to stop people from doing what they have no interest in doing. Finally, if a woman is able to pass the test on halakha and shows that she knows enough to be a rabbi, then what do we have to lose by according her the title and distinction to which her study and knowledge have entitled her?

  • heimish in bp

    David, can you please pinpoint where it is forbidden for a woman to be a rabbi?

  • utubefan

    In recent years, the term “Yoetzet Halacha” has been used for women who perform certain Rabbinical duties, but not all. They answer Taharat Hamishacha Sheaylot, they council Shul members, officiate at certain functions, give Derashot–this depends on the Shul. I know that the women’s prayer group that meets in Wesley, read from the Megilla on Purim and read from the Torah at their monthly services. They hold these services in people’s homes. There are cetrain things they do and others that they don’t and I believe they consult with a MO Rabbi as do most women’s prayer groups. I’m not sure if they get Aliyot for the Torah, but I think they do. I’m sure the Y.U.Torah website and the JOFA website deal with the Halachic issues. As for the Hashkafic ones, I’m uncomfortable with the motivation and the practice of women taking leadership roles in this way. I think they actually are bra-burning, Steinemites for the most part and that does not mean they aren’t sincere. I know some of them and they take this very seriously and are very sincere, committed Jews. I just think that one of the beauties of Orthodox Judaism is that we don’t believe that men and women are equal, we believe that they are equally important and that their roles are very different, but worthy of great respect. We are not supposed to live our lives as dictated by society’s mores. Halachicly, women are permitted to learn whatever they want, but to serve as Rabbis? You have to ask what is really motivating this? I feel sorry for the women who feel they need to do everything that men do in order to feel fulfilled spiritually and emotionally. That’s weakness to me.

  • utubefan

    That said, I would like it if a knowledgable woman offered a series of lectures using text to explain the Halachot (Halachot only) of Taharat Hamishpacha, head covering, etc. The only thing out there is these refresher courses which do not stick to clear Halacha and don’t open up the texts for us. And the Hashkafa of the women who give them is often not my own. Tzniut is handled by Chareidi men and women standing at a podium and telling sweet stories and intimidating the crowd. No Halachot are taught clearly about head-covering and body-covering. Lots of fire and brimstone and Hashkafa. It’s horrible I feel ignorant about my own Mitzvot and the system sets it up that way.

  • http://www.frumsatire.net Frum Satire

    RE: Sorry for being serious

    “When I think of woman rabbis I think of reform. To me, reform is not jewish.”

    Give me a F^&%ing break!!!

    “A man’s obligation and purpose in this world as a yid is to learn torah and I would trust his seichul more then a woman’s who has no obligation or mitzvah to learn Torah but decides to contradict what it says and goes and learns gemara anyway and calls herself a Rabbi”

    So I guess going beyond ones obligations according to the torah is bad eh? Why does everyone wear tzitzis at night? Or even yarmulkes at all- all of these chumras, and gezeras and extras were created to contradict torah by making us do stuff that the torah never intended us to do!!!

  • http://www.lifeofrubin.com Chaim

    In all seriousness, we do have female Rabbi’s, they are called Rebbeitzins. I know what you are thinking. A rebeitizin is just someone who makes kishke and kugel.

    But that’s one of the great things about Chabad. If you have ever visited a Chabad House you will know what I’m talking about. The bottom line is that men are pigs, even the frummest men.

    A man can not take a good looking woman serious in a position of power and especially spirtually. So to have a woman giving the speech to the shul, or doing whatever else it is a Rabbi does. (As you ask in the post, whats a rabbi anyway …) It just wouldn’t work, mainly for tznius reasons. But it has nothing to do with ability.

    So yes, a Rabbi will come off as a overall authority and leader of the community, but like I said, go visit any Chabad House and you will see the rabbi and his wife are equal partners in what they do. The Rebbeitiz is supposed to be there for the women in the community, answer their questions, advise them, give classes.

    In many Chabad houses it’s the Shliachs wife who runs the schools or is the program director.

    Rabbi? Just a name, it’s what these people do that counts, and in my experience the wife of many Rabbi’s can do as much good (or more) then even the Rabbi sometimes.

  • http://www.frumsatire.net Frum Satire

    You forgot to mention that Chabad women and girls learn gemara.

    Chabad women exert a lot of power- but Chaim you didn’t notice I said that women Rabbis should be ugly so we give them respect.

  • Chris_B

    Chaim brings up an interesting point with the “men are pigs” comment. From an outside viewpoint, it seems that part of the social aspect of tznuit is the assumption that the yetzer hara is so strong in every man that were he to see too much of a woman’s skin he would be driven mad with lust (of course I’m not saying that is the only reason, modesty has great value in and of itself).

    While obviously humans do have the reproductive urge (the positive value of yetzer hara as it were) who is going to be distracted from their davening if the person at the front of shul is a fox? I’m sure there is someone on this vast earth for whom that is a fetish, but really now, if someone is talking tanakh its hardly lust inducing cept maybe for that one psalm and even then it would have to be delivered in a certain voice… oh never mind 8)

  • Shevers

    I really like Chaim’s point… its very true.

  • http://crookedwall.blogspot.com Dofan Akuma

    if youre interested for a talmudic point of departure: tosfos yevamos 45b “mi lo tavla” gives two rationales for how devora could be whatever she was.

  • David

    Heimish– no, I can’t pinpoint it. I merely observe it as a fact, since, as of yet, there are no women permitted to become Orthodox rabbis (indeed, in many places, women are not even permitted to study Gemara).
    They don’t need it, spiritually speaking, and are usually busy with the (more) important business of raising a family.

    Heterim–

    “They don’t need it, spiritually speaking, and are usually busy with the (more) important business of raising a family.”

    Cute, but if raising a family is more important, then why are rabbis treated with (far, far) more respect than housewives? Shouldn’t it be the other way around?

  • http://welcomebalance.blogspot.com s(b.)

    Chaim does make a good point about rebbetzins and their roles in the community and stuff, but I don’t think men are pigs. Men are human. Women are human, too. To infer that a woman is never distracted by a handsome rabbi would be silly. I’m a big fan of the yoetzet halacha/rebbetzin model of female congregational leadership. I’m not saying the woman should be the rav. Or that she shouldn’t. Get someone who’s good and qualified and wants to do that part.

    Let me whip out a Schneerson story from when I was a kid (no source, just my memory). The Moshiach Times was first being published, and the rebbe (z”l) was shown a proposed cover for it. There was one child on it. He said to put a boy and a girl on the cover, on every cover. And Tzivos Hashem rocked it, and it was.

    Fast forward and we’re pretending to be grown ups all day; when it comes to leadership, there’s still a need for both genders. Yoetzet halachah/rebbetzin = potato/potato kugel — both great and important. I think in community leadership there need to be leadership figures of some sort of both genders to serve the entire community (’cause ladies may not want to show male ravs [post-niddah stuff here], and there are just some personal issues for which one might want rabbinic counseling from someone of the same gender (for any number of reasons).

    I also feel that there should be a voluntary go-to panel, not of zikainim, per se, but maybe people over XX age, who may have already been there, done that, and can offer some perspective that a younger rav can’t, simply for lack of experience. In the business world, there are volunteer groups in trade associations composed of retired or century club members who make themselves available by phone or online to help folks out who need some advice. I mean something like that.)

  • http://welcomebalance.blogspot.com s(b.)

    When I wrote: I’m a big fan of the yoetzet halacha/rebbetzin model of female congregational leadership.

    I didn’t mean there shouldn’t be male rabbis, or that there should only be a woman rabbi. I really do think it takes (at least) two people, one of each gender, to spiritually lead a group of men and women well.

  • http://www.snarkodox.wordpress.com KissMeI’mShomer

    I’m so loving this post and these comments.
    Just had to say that. ;)

    For the record, whenever someone at school/work asks me why Orthodox women can’t be rabbis and I’m looking for a nice PC answer, I usually say, “They can, they’re just called a rebbetzin or rabbanit. It’s like asking why a woman can only be an actress and not an actor.”
    That answer always served me well until one smart girl asked, “But can a rebbetzin do everything a rabbi does?” I was kind of stuck there. ;)

    Tamara: I loved your response and your rabbi sounds wonderful. I don’t think any Orthodox person here really questions a woman’s abilities or disagrees with you that a woman cannot be a great and skilled leader and rabbi. I think the only issue people are concerned here are whether being a leader in a public forum that includes men is consistent with Orthodoxy’s standards of modesty and propriety. Not saying that is or isn’t, just saying that’s what I think most reasonable are actually debating. ;)

  • Heterim are for Hippies

    David,

    You couldn’t be more right on. Women don’t get NEARLY the respect they deserve, for the most part, for the huge responsibilities they shoulder.

  • Pingback: Mixed Multitudes » Blog Archive » Female Rabbis, Male Stand-up Comedians()

  • Gavi

    The most basic reason that I am aware of why Orthodoxy has shunned women poskim is based upon the Rambam (Shu”t 42, Hilchot Melachim 1:5) who rules that women do not have “serara.”

    This word is taken by most Orthodox poskim to refer to the quality of psak halacha (i.e. the level of being able to come up with novel halacha in a previously unadressed situation). Thus, Orthodox women cannot pasken halacha. [Neither can most men, for that matter – psak is reserved for one who is at the level of “hora’ah”, cf. Sotah 22a.]

    This, however, does not prevent any woman from answering what she read in a book or what a rabbi told her (i.e. not psak per se, but simple transmission of the halacha).

    See also a scathing article by Rav H. Schechter on the issue:
    http://torahweb.org/torah/2004/parsha/rsch_dvorim2.html

    [Not that I agree with all his points, but he makes a few good arguments.]

  • http://tamaraeden.wordpress.com Tamara

    KissMeImShomer:

    PHEW…after nobody addressed my comment, not even Chaim, I was pained (not really), but thanks for the acknowledgement back. I’m off to check out your blog now. :)

  • http://boroparkpyro.blogspot.com/ Steg (dos iz nit der šteg)

    Unfortunately, most “rebbetzins” just AREN’T TRAINED to give the necessary halakhic, spiritual or pastoral guidance that people expect from them anyway because they happened to marry a rabbi.

    to answer your questions…

    Would the rabbi be called a rabbi still or is she a rabbnit or rabbanis?

    Rabbi would probably work in English; Hebrew might have to make do with Rabbanit, Rabba (i saw an Israeli Reform female Rabbi with that title on TV once), or something “separate but equal” like Hhakhama. I’ve also heard Morateinu as an equivalent title.

    What would all those men who daven in the women’s section of shuls when women aren’t there do?

    They shouldn’t be there in the first place.

    Who would make kiddush?

    Women can make kiddush for men. It works halakhically, it’s just frowned upon socially in many communities.

    Who would lead hoshanos- surely all that butt bumping and lulav poking is untznius?

    Separate men and women haqafot.
    The hhazan could lead the men.

    Who would sing and lead hakafos?

    According to normative Modern Orthodox halakha, religious rituals are not susceptible to the issur of Qol Isha. So the female rabbi could do it. Or the hhazan.

    Who would shake peoples hands for random yasher koachs?

    The gabbai. Or we could all just agree that handshaking is not derekh hhiba, much less derekh ta’ava, and is mutar.

    What do we call the husband? Rebetz?

    Thanbo knows a “Rebbetzer”.

    What side of the mechitza would the rabbi speak from?

    Her own. Or, they could structure the shul with a neutral zone somewhere.

    What would happen in those shuls without women’s sections?

    Somehow i doubt they would hire a woman rabbi.

    How would the Rabbi speak in shuls where the women sit in a balcony?

    She could come down to a semi-neutral zone, or they could do some renovations.

    Btw, you spelled “Judaism” wrong ;-)

  • Ex-wife of BT

    David, the answer to your question is in Parshat Bereishit: El Ishaich Teshukatech VeHu Yimshol Boch.

    It explains why no amount of rallying on the part of women will ever make us dominent over men.

  • http://boroparkpyro.blogspot.com/ Steg (dos iz nit der šteg)

    Ex-wife of BT:

    do you realize that the other punishment of Hhava, pain in childbirth, has been significantly mitigated by modern medical technology?

  • http://splitthesea.blogspot.com Rivka

    True power is held by the director, the producer, the playwright – not the actor. Men are the actors in the play, women are the directors, playwrights, the stage managers.

    I don’t think there is even a question that women make better rabbis than men, and Judaism acknowledges that. Women have more vision, better intuition, stronger faith, commitment and spirituality.

    But if women became the rabbis, who would encourage the men to learn Torah? Among the Jewish people, and most of society, the women have the power because they determine what the men do.

    Whoever gets offended by the Torah’s seemingly anti-feminist views, take note:

    Why do children use booster seats at the table? Because they are not tall enough to sit in a regular chair. Men are not the Rabbis because they are more superior than women. Rather, men need the boost of having outward status and achievement such as “Smicha,” “Rabbi,” or any host of titles in order to be at the same level as women, who are way above them.

    Women who are truly successful know their own achievement and understand that allowing the men to take the spotlight is how to encourage them to grow. When a woman keeps to her role as described by Orthodox Judaism, she is able to maintain the most power.

    Red Forman: “Why do we always do what you want to do?”
    Kitty Forman: “It’s in the Bible, look it up!”
    (That 70’s Show)

  • Pingback: Jewess » Sometimes Humorous, Mostly Upsetting Post on Women as Prthodox Rabbis()

  • http://nemosramblings.blogspot.com Nemo

    You gotta love all the reverse chauvinism here …

    No one hesitates to put men down, saying that they’re inferior, coarse and stupid. And all of us men are taking it standing, because hey, it shuts the women up meanwhile.

    Convince yourself babe!

    • Alter Cocker

      some very sexist women posting here, no doubt.

    • Alter Cocker

      very true. They can keep repeating it, but that won’t make it true.

  • http://marcl1969.wordpress.com Marc

    Nobody hesitates to say it because there is no doubt in Judaism that women are spiritually superior to men. We take it because if we are going to accept the Talmud, Midrash etc- we need to accept that the reason men are bound by more halachot is that men have more need of them to elevate us spiritually to the point where women are!

    In fact, I have seen a comment (though I forget where), that the reason women should be discouraged from studying gemorrah is ebcause it disturbs the clarity of understanding they have! That men require the complex logical arguments the way a child needs someone to guide them through making a decision because otherwise they do not know how- whereas a woman has the bility to understand the underlying issue and know the correct ruling without it- an adult who knows what the correct decision is!

  • http://infiniterandominity.blogspot.com Shua

    FWIW, the Torah doesn’t allow women to serve as witnesses, and therefore not as judges either (the qualifications are generally the same). Thus in many halachic matters women cannot issue a binding ruling.

    That’s not to say they couldn’t act as advisors or arbitrators, but it explains why they typically can’t play the formal role of Rabbi, which often requires the ability to take full responsibility and issue an absolute ruling.

  • http://welcomebalance.blogspot.com s(b.)

    I was just over at the Tzivos Hashem website and was really bummed to see that it’s mostly pictures of boys on the site. The rebbe’s point about there needing to be a boy and a girl on the cover of the Moshiach Times applies equally to online materials, imo. I realize there are some folks from Chabad who read this blog. If you already do not make a conscious effort to represent both boys and girls in your own local marketing materials (so to speak), I hope you will keep the Rebbe’s wish in mind in the production of future materials.

  • http://agmk.blogspot.com Lion of Zion

    STEG:

    “Unfortunately, most “rebbetzins” just AREN’T TRAINED to give the necessary halakhic, spiritual or pastoral guidance that people expect from them anyway because they happened to marry a rabbi.”

    or alternatively as a professor once remarked, sleeping with a rabbi does not automatically make a woman into a rebbetzin

    “do you realize that the other punishment of Hhava, pain in childbirth, has been significantly mitigated by modern medical technology?”

    actually, i’ve noticed that in “frummer” circles it is often frowned upon to get an epidural (not that i’m saying this is the reason)

  • http://nemosramblings.blogspot.com Nemo

    Shua- What if the community graciously accepted on themselves to abide by a woman’s judgment? Then her Psak Din becomes binding …

  • http://suitepotato.blogspot.com suitepotato

    Marc: “In fact, I have seen a comment (though I forget where), that the reason women should be discouraged from studying gemorrah is ebcause it disturbs the clarity of understanding they have! That men require the complex logical arguments the way a child needs someone to guide them through making a decision because otherwise they do not know how- whereas a woman has the bility to understand the underlying issue and know the correct ruling without it- an adult who knows what the correct decision is!”

    I just had a flash of the never ending cold war between the Bene Geserit and the Spacing Guild in Dune…

  • a woman

    sorry i dont have time to read all the posts, so if this is repetitive ignore it. the answer i always heard when i asked is that a women would get too emotionally involved: meaning, she wont be able to pasken properly on wether a chicken is kosher or not if she knows the person asking doesnt have money. and the few women out there who claim not to have sympathy-your basically saying you dont have hormones. on a side point a woman is alouwwed to be a shoichet its just not commenly accepted because most woman cant handle blood- i suppose thats why there arent as many women docters as men.

  • http://splitthesea.blogspot.com Rivka

    In response to ‘a woman’ – “most woman cant handle blood- i suppose thats why there arent as many women docters as men.”

    Today there are basically equal amounts of female doctors as male doctors.

    “The British Medical Association (BMA) found that 58% of doctors who graduated in 2006 were female compared with 51% in 1995.” – this is a quote from a BBC news article found here:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/6229870.stm

    Research the matter and find out more about how so many women are interested and succeeding in the medical field.

  • http://www.shtetlfab.blogspot.com Shtetl Fabulous

    I grew up with a fantastic rabbi who happened to be a woman. My brother and sister grew up initially thinking rabbis could only BE women. I think it’s wonderful that Judaism can and should make room for a diversity of views, interpretations, rulings, etc and that’s a major advantage women can offer as spiritual leaders. Not any better or worse than men, just different – with different experiences that led them to that point. None of us is perfect and I’m deeply saddened to see so much hate and apologetic backpedaling here.

    Also, to those SO concerned over female rabbis in the Orthodox world – WAKE UP! It’s already happening, just with semantic finageling. Check out Kehilat Orach Eliezer (www.koe.org) and their Rosh Kehilah Dina Najman-Licht. She already serves essentially as a rabbi for that congreation. She gives divrei Torah and participates fully in congregational life.

    Anyone else doubting (or fearing) the expanding ritual and liturgical role of women in Orthodox congregations, would do well to check out http://www.jofa.org and look for their resources on synagogue practices. The future is now.

  • http://www.snarkodox.wordpress.com KissMeI’mShomer

    WOMAN:
    “sorry i dont have time to read all the posts, so if this is repetitive ignore it. the answer i always heard when i asked is that a women would get too emotionally involved: meaning, she wont be able to pasken properly on wether a chicken is kosher or not if she knows the person asking doesnt have money.”
    That’s an issue of personality, not gender. It’s overgeneralizing to imply that all women are unable to separate logic and emotions and that all men are capable of doing so.

    “…and the few women out there who claim not to have sympathy-your basically saying you dont have hormones.”
    But men don’t have hormones? ;)

    “… on a side point a woman is alouwwed to be a shoichet its just not commenly accepted because most woman cant handle blood i suppose thats why there arent as many women docters as men.”
    Right now there are more female doctors than male doctors, and there have always been more female nurses than male nurses.

  • http://www.snarkodox.wordpress.com KissMeI’mShomer

    (…meaning that the nurses had to deal with blood too so it’s not like only “modern” women who are able to become doctors are able to handle blood…)

  • Pingback: Haveil Havalim #175 — Through the Eyes of Frume Sarah « Frume Sarah’s World()

  • a woman

    lol. im sorry, your right i should have researched the matter more thouroghly. my somment was obviously misconstrued. yes, women have been handling pain and blood for centuries, but how many do you know do it for reasons other than to survive and help others? (not prove their “machoness” as women?) and of course women are able to seperate logic and emotion-it has to be done in order to give your children a proper chinuch. men and women are different. period. women are more compassionate. of course there are exceptions and you must realize that as you told me that im overgenralizing, meanig you acknowledge the universal truth of that. (yea men have hormones, it seems thats all they have sometimes. but wtvr) you want to be a shoichet, KISSME? go ahead.
    Shtetl,
    i think ive seen this comment mentioned above, but there ARE women who give divrei torah, are spiritual leaders, and offer a different perspective on life. they just dont tote the title rabbi, instead being true feminists, prefer to be called the female term of rebetzen. just as a female with an acting carreer is called an actress, not actor. this has been going on for thousands of years. (devorah haniviah, sara, ETC.). as for the women of today, check out the biggest feminests views on chabad.org

  • http://na anonymous

    It’s from JOFA, so you can guess the perspective they are coming from. But they had an interesting session at their past conference that you can listen to here — http://www.jofa.org/search_biblio.php?searchstring=empowerment&searchparam=any

  • http://www.kisarita.blogspot.com kisarita

    On “Men Are Pigs, therefore only men should be Rabbis” reasoning-

    anyone else find something amiss on that logic????

    After Tendler, Carlebach, Lanner et all, how many more scandals do we need before we decide that male rabbis are not the solution to untznius behavior?

    What would you worry more about- a woman whose emotions sacrifice her objectivity, or a man who’s libido does?

    As for me, since discovering happily since I left the hareidi community that men are not pigs, I have no problems with male rabbis and do not believe they should be banned.

  • http://www.frumsatire.net Frum Satire

    This comment makes no sense – you say male rabbis are not the solution and then you say you have no problem with them.

  • http://www.kisarita.blogspot.com kisarita

    no i dont, just i think some of the excuses for banning women rabbis, ridiculous as they are, might lead one to ban men

  • http://michalbasavraham.blogspot.com/ Michal bas Avraham

    I know this is old but, Sorry for being serious, I need to correct you. Women do a man’s job (support the family financially) Men don’t do anyone’s job and the woman’s job is outsourced to Jamaicans who usually hate Jews and secretly want to beat up your kids.

  • Chris_B

    mmmm smell the racist stereotyping!

  • http://michalbasavraham.blogspot.com/ Michal bas Avraham

    Or maybe…
    Someone has worked along side them and they tell me things…

  • http://www.yahoo.com Sky

    Dear,
    People

    My name is Sky. My hebrew name was given by a women. Yes its a little unorthodox, But I don’t believe its wrong. Judiasm is the mittle man (or women) wen it comes to sexism (I read each Branch of the aberham tree. You may be very very suprised on What my research shows). Just think Its actually a big break through!” on how Judiasm works it may just make Judiasm the best thing for women!!!!!!!!!

  • Smartypants

    I see more and more people leaving the Lord’s table to feast at the Table of Man. Eventually the Lord will be alone and Man’s table will be filled with nothing worth mentioning

  • Pingback: bone bewray bibliopegy()

  • Pingback: installment loans for bad credit()

  • Pingback: koszenie trawy()

  • Pingback: หาช่างภาพ()

  • Pingback: cheap london flights()

  • Pingback: yamagishi ryokan()

  • Pingback: คอนโดพร้อมอยู่()

  • Pingback: best fat burner for men()

  • Pingback: reviews garcinia cambogia extract()

  • Pingback: how to get rid of cellulite()

  • Pingback: pixelitas.com()

  • Pingback: deer antler spray benefits()

  • Pingback: tabletki na potencje opinie()