I received this via email and was wondering you folks thought of it. The Rubashkins scandal sucks because I like meat and I don’t want it going up in price- because while I only eat vegetarian during the week, I rely on my free shabbos meals to provide me with the meat I so truly want but am unable to afford or find the time to defrost- I have ADD when it comes to defrosting meat. So first pizza went to $3 a slice and now meat will undoubtedly skyrocket- forcing many of my friends to take back all of their insults at me for eating only tofu products- and not having fleishig dishes. But seriously what do you think of this? I mean I shop at Jewish and non-Jewish stores that employ illegal immigrants and most probably pay them below minimum wage. You must remember I live in Monsey- where immigrants some probably illegal- line up on route 59 waiting for people to pick them up to build section 8 housing for the kollel yungerman.
Received via email:
Dear Friends,
Please see the petition below. We hope you will sign it and forward it on. We are collecting both institutional and individual signatures.
To sign the petition, reply to Uri L’Tzedek.
Shabbat Shalom,
Uri L’Tzedek
Lag b’Omer 5768
May 23, 2008
Mr. Sholom Rubashkin
220 N West St
Postville, IA 52162
Dear Mr. Rubashkin,
We write to you out of a deep sense of ahavat Torah and ahavat Yisrael, with both great respect and great concern.
Your company produces 60 percent of the beef and 40 percent of the chicken provided to the kosher marketplace in America. You employ 968 factory employees and serve as a pillar of the food economy. Your generous philanthropy supports moral and significant causes and is a great source of pride for Israel and Jewish institutions around the world. You are an important and respected leader of the Jewish community.
Therefore it is with great frustration and sadness that we write this letter. We are the kosher meat consumers of America. We are mothers and fathers raising our children in a kosher home. We are rabbis, teachers, and Jewish professionals who use your products in our work. Since you control much of the kosher meat market in America, we rely on you to uphold the halakhic requirements, both ritual and ethical, of the food we eat. We believe you have failed, and we are deeply troubled.
We are deeply troubled that you have demonstrated a pattern of knowingly exploiting undocumented workers, to paying them less than market wages and treating them poorly.
We are deeply troubled that according to many experts, the wages you pay your workers are the lowest of any slaughterhouse in the nation.[1]
We are deeply troubled that, despite years of public inquiry and concern over worker conditions at your plant, AgriProcessors was cited for 39 new health and safety violations in March 2008. It pains us to hear that examinations of Agriprocessor’s OSHA logs reveal amputations, broken bones, eye injuries and hearing loss that occurred at your plant.[2]
We are deeply troubled that animals have been abused against the laws of kashrut and of tzaar baalei chaim, causing needless pain to animals.[3]
We are deeply troubled that among the hundreds of workers who were arrested by federal officials on May 12, eighteen were children between ages 13 and 17.[4]
We are deeply troubled to read reports of various criminal operations taking place at the Postville plant, the account of a Jewish floor supervisor who severely abused a Guatemalan worker in the most reprehensible conditions, and allegations of sexual assault and verbal abuse.[5]
On your website, you state as your values that “as a producer of kosher meat products, we approach our business in the context of a deep religious tradition.” Undoubtedly you agree that our shared deep religious does not approve of these practices, and we therefore write this letter in the spirit of the mitzvah of hocheiach tochiach et amitecha, to give rebuke where it is needed so that a fellow Jew can make right what is wrong.
We ask the following:
1. Pay all of your workers at least the federal minimum wage.
2. Recommit your company to abide by all federal, state and local laws including those pertaining worker safety, sexual harassment, physical abuse, and the rights of your employees to collective bargaining.
3. Treat those who work for you according to the standards that Torah and halakha places on protecting workers–standards which include the spirit of lifnim meshurat hadin, going beyond the bare minimum requirements of the law.
In order to ensure that you meet these modest requests, we ask that you establish a department and staff with external transparency to a reputable, objective third party to deal exclusively with these three concerns. We ask that you maintain this office on an ongoing basis to ensure the basic ethical standards demanded by Torah, the U.S. government, and the American Jewish community.
Until these changes are made, we feel compelled to refrain from purchasing or consuming meat produced by your company, and will pressure every establishment with which we do business to cease purchase of your meat. Effective June 15, 2008 we will stop patronizing any restaurant that sells your meat.
Mr. Rubashkin, you have been a leader in the kosher meat industry, and we look forward to seeing you lead the way for all American meat processors, not only in the kashrut of your products, but in the kashrut of every aspect of your business.
???? ???? ??? ????? ????? ????
I will give thanks to You with upright heart, when I study Your ordinances that are righteous.
????? ??”?:? Pslams 119:7
Sincerely,
Uri L’Tzedek ( uri.ltzedek@gmail.com )
(Institutional affiliations are listed for identification purposes only.)
55 responses so far ↓
1 Anon // May 25, 2008 at 11:29 am
F***ing social agenda masquarading behind phony ‘mitzvas’!
don’t you just hate when they mix them up like that!!
(during the soviet revolution the communists also qouted all kinds of ‘torah’ ideas)
F*** ‘Tikun Olam’!
2 CSJ // May 25, 2008 at 11:59 am
I agree with this message, and I am hard core right wing. Rubashkins=Gangsters, at least to anyone who knows anything about their operation. They got the worst rating IN THE WHOLE FRIGGIN’ NATION. They deserve whatever is coming to them.
3 Lucas // May 25, 2008 at 12:16 pm
I’m still freaked out about the Meth labs set up INSIDE Agriprocessors. Not only is meth a totally ridiculously dangerous drug, but also, the chemical offset of Meth is so harmful that Meth Lab sites are also HAZMAT sites.
I read somewhere that this woman got really ill after moving into her new home, she was in the hospital all the time, her family was in the hospital all the time… and then someone tested her yard for contaminants, and it turned out the former homes occupants had a meth lab in the backyard, and the chemical offset was what was making her family sick. The DEA had to come in to clean up and they had to dig down 12 feet into the soil before finding uncontaminated soil.
So basically what I’m posing is, how do we know that all the kosher meat isn’t somehow also tainted by this?
This REALLY freaks me out.
http://jta.org/cgi-bin/iowa/breaking/108541.html
4 Mikeinmidwood // May 25, 2008 at 12:18 pm
I dont believe most of what they say that they did. It seems like every day new things just keep popping up against Rubashkins.
5 Nemo // May 25, 2008 at 1:14 pm
Just wrote a whole response and it friggin disappeared.
Basically said I agree with Mikeinmidwood.
6 Headbanger // May 25, 2008 at 2:10 pm
When you jews gonna realize that everything is a scandal and everything is BS. If you truly fear god you would stop eating. I promise than in a few years we’ll find out that Golden Flow has been milking rats all this time. There is nothing trustworthy and each story one after another tells us that the frummer the company the less trustworthy it is. I bet a cheeseburger is less treif than aarons hot dogs. So don’t act shocked and hate your fellow jew because he’s causing you to do aveiros.
7 miami yid // May 25, 2008 at 2:45 pm
I agree on some degree with the previous comment (Headbanger).. i Dont think Rashbashkin really cares what you think they gotten to big to care what we think b/c they control the market they have a monopoly on Kosher meat..
they have the ability to under cut any body who stands in there way.
the best way is to have a wide scale boycott showing them that we the people sre in charge supply and demand..
dont get me started with the rabbis and the differant kosher certificate its all a scam one paying off the other … they are only allowed to get away with it b/c us jews dont care…
For example chabad can only buy from rubashkin b/c they are only company that sell chabad meat why is that b/c rubashkin dominates the market similar to J.D rockerfaller.
8 jimmy // May 25, 2008 at 3:42 pm
you go on and on about how $3 per slice of pizza is such an outrage, well in canada it costs 4-6 bucks, so you have nothing to complain about there!!! just be thankful you get pizza at all!
9 Lion of Zion // May 25, 2008 at 3:59 pm
i am appalled by the accusations against rubashkin. those who are guilty should sit in jail for a long time if convicted.
that having been said, using and abusing immigrant labor is the price of doing business in america. and it’s not at all a new phenomenon. i’m NOT condoning it, but that’s the way it is. it just happens to be that rubashkin got caught (and perhaps they were excessive?).
i do agree to a certain extent with anon above. don’t use the torah to criticize rubashkin if you don’t follow the laws of kashruth in the torah.
as a tangent (and this is something i’ve been meaning to post about), why do frum jewish shoppers also treat the immigrant workers like crap. i can “understand” the employers. but with the shoppers there is no profit motive or anything like than. it’s just plain lack of derech eretz and the typical frum attitude that goyyim are there to be abused.
10 Headbanger // May 25, 2008 at 4:09 pm
The way I see things going everyone will be on food stamps and welfare by 2010. What’s 100 grand a year? Pocket change. And we still don’t have it. Everyone get out your bicycles and roller blades, that’s your new mode of transportation. And get used to eating rocks and dirt. I heard it’s not bad with some rock salt and it doesn’t require a Bracha Achrona. And if you want to give your wife a present for any occasion, buy her a gallon of gasoline. She’s guranteed to realize how much you care.
11 SUPERFRUM // May 25, 2008 at 4:11 pm
Read the Book _Fast Food Nation__, Then see the movie.
The goyim treat their employees terribly.
12 Lion of Zion // May 25, 2008 at 4:36 pm
HESH:
http://www.vosizneias.com/16352/2008/05/23/washington-orthodox-rabbi-calls-to-halt-sales-of-rubashkin-meat-in-dc-area/
i went to yeshiva in israel with him
SUPERFRUM:
are you contexualizing rubashkin or excusing it?
13 sheva // May 25, 2008 at 6:54 pm
All i have to say is… “Whatever”!
14 Dan the man // May 25, 2008 at 8:27 pm
Its time to make Hebrew National Glatt!! and Also time to put an OU on Purdue Chicken. Anyway you slice it, Kosher meat is going to cost more $$. Most of the super frummys are on food stamps and Wic anyway.
15 Elisheva // May 26, 2008 at 8:28 am
Since the Torah tells us to take care of our bodies and our health, I don’t really see how it’s kosher to eat Rubashkin meat since it is full of hormones and antibiotics (I think they have a few organic chickens, but they each cost as much as a semester of college). But that’s just me being a hippie.
The way they treat their workers and their cows is probably exactly the same as (and as bad as) all the other big companies. I doubt a boycott will be effective because most people will still buy it, especially all the chabad people who don’t have a choice. Too bad.
16 Elisheva // May 26, 2008 at 8:29 am
Why isn’t Hebrew National glatt, and do most Orthodox people eat it, or not eat it? Argh, it’s like freaking Cabot cheese which tastes delicious, so obviously the hechsher is “problematic” and no one in my community eats it.
17 heshman // May 26, 2008 at 11:47 am
It was hashgacha prutus that I received this- because I couldn’t be at a computer all yesterday and figured that you people wouldn’t need moderation and it is in fact a civil and inteligent argument.
Lion of Zion- with regards to frum ppl treating immigrants with disrespect- I could not agree with you more- I see it in Monsey and its a terrible chillul Hashem.
18 urban gypsy // May 26, 2008 at 1:48 pm
Can someone confirm this for me: is all Lubavitch shchita meat in the US from Rubashkin’s plant? How about Lubavitch shchita meat in Canada?
19 Nemo // May 26, 2008 at 1:51 pm
Yo, dude, why can’t I publish my comments??
20 heshman // May 26, 2008 at 2:03 pm
No idea- send them to my email and I’ll look into it.
frumsatire@gmail.com
21 heshman // May 26, 2008 at 2:04 pm
RE: Urban Gypsy- none of the shochtim at Rubashkins are Lubavitch- they are all chassidish- sotmar, bobov, viznitz etc but none Lubavitch since Lubbie shechita is not accepted by all. I learned of this after spending a night in Postville and seeing shul that half the people of the town are not Lubbie- its really wierd.
22 urban gypsy // May 26, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Thanks so much for that reply Hesh! So then none of the meat produced in Postville is Lubavitch shchita? Does anyone know where it is produced then? (Awesome that you spent a night there and saw what it’s like, by the way!)
I’m really terrified about the meth lab allegations. Does anyone have more info on this?
23 chanief // May 26, 2008 at 2:17 pm
Everything I have read and continue to read about the meat industry only makes me happier and prouder to be a vegetarian.
You don’t need to do any digging to find out about all of Rubashkin’s transgressions against not only the law but the Torah, it’s all over the internet for everyone to see and quite frankly it disgusts me.
BUT - big but here - don’t delude yourself into thinking any other company in the industry is better. If you eat meat - any meat at all, you are contributing to the deplorable treatment of both animals and workers (mostly immigrant.)
The attention is on Rubashkin because they’ve become large enough to piss a lot of people off and therefore they are under a magnifying glass.
The entire meat industry is disgusting and I don’t care if the Torah says it’s ok to eat meat, if you eat it, you contribute to the problems. The industry will never be reformed until people stop buying it and that will never happen - what would people put in their cholents??
A side note - I wonder sometimes if meat these days even is kosher since the conditions the animals are forced to endure definitely count as tzar baalei chaim - I am not well versed enough in halacha to know if that is technically ok, but it doesn’t seem right to me.
24 Nemo // May 26, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Hesh- There are certainly Lubavitch Shochtim in Postville, in fact, one of them is sitting in jail right now. There are a lot of others, but it really depends for which brand of meat, i.e. Aaron’s, Shor Habor, etc.
Urban Gypsy- Rubashkin definitely is the largest supplier of “Lubavitch Shchita” but there are also a number of smaller local productions. I know that in Pittsburgh, where I grew up, one of the rabbis goes out once a week to Shechts for the community. The local kosher butcher only sells the fresh meat while the big chain supermarket carries Rubashkin.
25 heterim are for hippies // May 26, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Hesh,
I am going to go ahead and call you out on the whole “No Lubavitchers in Rubashkin” thing. This is straight up not true. There are of course many chassidish non-Lubavitchers working there but it is a huge stretch to say none. Its possible I’m wrong but I would be very very surprised.
As far as Lubavitch Shechita, the Rubashkins have a label called Shor Habor, also out of Postville, which is exclusively Lubavitch. If you ever eat in Crown Heights this is basically the only meat people eat there. I have heard of some smaller Lubavitch-only outfits throughout the country but nowhere near the scale of Rubashkin.
I want to throw in my own two cents though:
Cent One: Postville, albeit the largest, is not the only Rubashkin plant. I’ve read that conditions in their Gordon, Nebraska plant are significantly better. Hopefully now that their CEO is out things will change quickly.
Cent Two: Rubashkins is a bully. They are the Microsoft of the shechting world. If the allegations are true, these people have no business being in business. haha. It’s true they are huge baalei chesed and tzedakah, but that is hardly an excuse. I hope this doesn’t in any way reflect on Lubavitch as a whole.
26 Anon // May 26, 2008 at 7:08 pm
chaief:
Tzar Balei Chaim, while deplorable, has no bearing on the kosher status of the animal being abused. it is a violaton on the part of the abuser, and him alone. (there is no Halachic prohibition on German Cars, is there?)
see my first coment
27 Anon // May 26, 2008 at 7:09 pm
heterim are for hippies: the lubavitch-baiting in cent two was uncalled for (and made no sense).
28 chanief // May 26, 2008 at 9:14 pm
Anon - isn’t an animal supposed to be uninjured? Or is it only the internal organs that need to be intact (and then how exactly is ritual slaughter humane of the animal can be terribly injured beforehand and still be kosher?)
Call me stupid but I didn’t quite “get” your original response… “F***ing social agenda masquarading behind phony ‘mitzvas’!” Whose social agendas masquerading as mitzvahs are you referring to?
29 Nemo // May 26, 2008 at 11:46 pm
Chanief- There are two distinct halachik issues at play here: Kashrus and Tzaar Ba’alei Chayim.
An animal’s state of being and how it was treated before it was slaughtered has no direct rendering on the Kashrus of the slaughter (save for certain vital injuries, fatal diseases and physical defects). If it was abused for its entire life and then sold to slaughter, the slaughter is as Kosher as possible, provided that all the necessary rituals were followed. But that doesn’t give post facto sanction for abuse or Tzaar Baalei Chayim; it just shows that slaughter, and its humaneness, are technically independent of what took place beforehand.
30 Anon // May 26, 2008 at 11:55 pm
peta’s
31 Nemo // May 27, 2008 at 1:03 am
Ok, I’ve tried my post like thirty times, but it seems your blog just wants to violate my right to free speech. I just posted it on my own blog to re-assure myself that it wasn’t time wasted.
So anyway, if anyone wants a different opinion on all the fun going on in Postville, an opinion that allows that not every element of the scandalous allegations add up and that before boycotting a corporation civil justice must prevail, please visit my post on the topic:
NemosRamblings
32 me // May 27, 2008 at 2:24 am
Who would have known, you can get meth that is under kosher supervision.
33 Rafi // May 27, 2008 at 5:45 am
ne1 see the videos?
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_short
or for the long one
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/Prefs.asp?video=agri_long
it’s pretty gruesome
34 heshman // May 27, 2008 at 6:43 am
This comment was received via email from NEMO
Do you truly believe all of the allegations? It seems a bit sensationalist to believe that a company that knew they were under scrutiny would allow all of this to happen. There were always secret cameras filming what happened in the plant. How likely is it that the company just allowed ever code, regulation or crime to be broken? Besides hiring illegal immigrants, they’re being accused of knowingly: having a meth lab, physically abusing workers, forcing sexual favors, extortion, unsafe working conditions, animal abuse, environmental waste, forging documentation, underpaying, overworking, defaulting on debts, and the list continues and grows daily. It sounds like every possible allegation that could come out to destroy a company is just being thrown out there, perhaps by unionists, Conservative activists via the media, former workers looking for a plea bargain, or other people with a stake in destroying the company.
I highly doubt most of the allegations are true and firmly believe that these stories are surfacing in an attempt to further besmirch the company. If some of the events did in fact happen, such as “sexual favors,” they were isolated incidents that have nothing to do with the corporation (or Orthodox Judaism for that matter).
No one forces illegal immigrants to take jobs, and certainly not to keep jobs we’re they’re being abused. Rubashkin wasn’t keeping slaves and the fact that so many workers remained for so long and moved their families out to Iowa indicates that conditions weren’t as bad as the media wants us to believe.
Time, investigations and legal action will tell what really happened at the Agri plant. Meanwhile, I’m going to continue enjoying Rubashkin meat just like I always have- or at least for as long as the prices don’t skyrocket. I’m not bothered by the fact that the company hired illegal immigrant, because that’s the order of business in the meat industry and everyone does it. Besides, I recognize that Rubashkin in chiefly a business, and Jewishness and lawful practice is really an aside in my mind. It is naive to look up to a business as a spiritual or ethical icon. Organizations that make boycotts based on the religiosity and piety (or lack thereof) of a company’s owner are utilizing a cheap irrelevant ploy to detract from the real issue.
Until actual abuse is proven - which may happen - I’m will not stop purchasing Rubashkin meat
35 urban gypsy // May 27, 2008 at 7:36 am
Nemo:
You commented that you’re not bothered by the fact that the company hired illegal immigrants, “because that’s the order of business in the meat industry and everyone does it.”
That’s unfortunate, because firstly it is ILLEGAL and secondly it is UNETHICAL. Just because it is the order of the day does not mean it’s okay. That terrible line of reasoning can be used to justify too many horrible things. So please, please don’t do that.
However, I agree that the seemingly never-ending list of accusations seemed a little questionable, until now that is. For the longest time I’ve been denying it to myself, but the meth lab story changed my mind. It’s just too much.
36 chanief // May 27, 2008 at 8:37 am
The reality for me is that I did not become a vegetarian out of pity for animals, but what I have learned since becoming one has opened my eyes.
There’s some interesting information out there, not just through peta, about what goes on at slaughterhouses - it’ll make you throw up that last burger, I swear.
I see what you all are saying about the tzaar baalei chaim having no implication on the kashrus of an animal, but it boggles my mind that an animal can be abused and injured and still be kosher because it was shechted properly. It seems a distinction once again between the letter and the spirit of the law which is what it to boil down to time and time again.
Nemo - No, I don’t believe all of the allegations, I believe there are those trying to put them out of business and figure if they throw enough mud against the wall, eventually something will stick.
The entire meat industry, not just kosher meat, is sick and corrupt. Rubashkin is not the big bad bogeyman of the kosher meat industry, they just get more attention. I agree with urban gypsy though, just because “everyone” does something doesn’t make it right.
LOL@ me - kosher meth… awesome!
37 chanief // May 27, 2008 at 8:39 am
ugh - should say “seems to boil down to” - edited myself incorrectly there…
38 Nemo // May 27, 2008 at 8:58 am
Urban Gypsy- I know that it’s illegal, from which you may infer that by breaking the law they were also acting unethically. My point was - and I know that this is not a legal defense - that in order to stay afloat in meat production, almost any meatpacker engages in such “harmless” crimes. It doesn’t bother my conscience. I don’t think hiring illegals (or to be PC, undocumented immigrants) makes you an evil person.
For whatever reasons, Rubashkin just happened to have the bad luck of getting caught.
About the meth plant:
1. Why are you so convinced? There still is no evidence to prove that it ever existed, just some bald accusations.
2. What are you so worried about? The plant is a huge operation, how do you know that if meth was being cooked, that it was happening anywhere near your food. Likewise, it could have been happening at hours of the days when no one else was in the plant, without endangering other employees.
A plant happens to be a good place to cook, considering that all the chemicals necessary are readily available in the company’s tanks. It is also significantly safer then doing it in your own basement.
3. It was supposedly run by employees, not by management. That has nothing to do with the company, its quality or its integrity. Which also means that even if it did exist, the owners of the company weren’t necessarily aware of it and couldn’t do anything to stop it from happening.
39 heshman // May 27, 2008 at 9:22 am
ChanieF- I am hypocritical semi-vegetarian during the week. I do not eat meat unless someone else buys it or makes it for me. I have no fleishig dishes and I eat mostly vegan during the week- on shabbos I rock the meat.
Meth doesn’t disturb me, lack of soap disturbs me.
I also think that the allegations are getting blown up and illegal immigration is one of those things that just is- its funny though because frummies tend to be Republican and very anti illegal immigration- you would think that they would be the forefront of the boycott.
40 urban gypsy // May 27, 2008 at 11:20 am
Nemo:
I don’t think hiring illegals makes you an evil person. I think paying them less than minimum wage absolutely makes you an evil person. I think maintaining a factory where standards of saftey are inadequate absolutely makes you an evil person.
Rubashkin’s didn’t randomly get caught by bad luck. The investigation of their operating practices has been going on for months, which makes it apparant that it was no accident.
1. About the meth plant, I am actually not convinced of it at all. It seems to be pretty unsubstatiated, as none of the major news sources covering the raid have even mentioned it. It would be interesting to see how that pans out.
2. See Lucas’s comment above.
3. It is the job of the management to keep an eye on what’s going on in the factory. The rabbi claims that everything is reported to him, including every minor altercation and disagreement, which is how he knows there was no abuse going on. That’s a pretty strong statement, and if you have the guts to claim that, you ought to know if there’s a meth lab or not.
41 anoushka // May 27, 2008 at 11:46 am
my husband has worked in hasgacha for more than 20 years, and i have worked in food service most of my life. in an effort to be truly dan l’kaf zechus, i have to tell you that 39 health violations isn’t a lot for a plant the size of rubashkin’s. no one - and i mean NOT ONE FACTORY, restaurant, supermarket, etc. - ever, ever, ever gets a totally clean bill of health from the health department, the USDA, the FDA, the fire inspector, building inspector, etc. if God Himself opened a restaurant, He’d be cited for violations. it’s the nature of the beast.
having said that . . . . the rumours of the existence of a working meth lab at rubashkin may be premature. if they are true, then the existence of such an illegal enterprise would be evidence of the complete and utter failure of the company to manageme its employees, and a complete moral breakdown on the part of the employees who (rightfully) believed that they could “get away with it”. as for the practice of hiring illegals: our holy Torah teaches us that “the law of the land is law”, and anyone’s efforts to circumvent those laws is wrong. more importantly, the way those employees were treated has come under scrutiny. these accusations could prove to be a greater chillul Hashem than the act of hiring them in the first place.
we jews love our meat - there’s no doubt about that. but we can also learn to do without, and all the rubashkins out there should be put on notice. if all the meat my family gets from now on is a k’zayis on shabbos and yontif, sobeit.
42 Nemo // May 27, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Urban Gypsy- The point in hiring illegal immigrants is that you can pay them less than minimum wage, and that they are willing to work for that. How is that evil? It sounds like a happy agreement between employer and employee. Remember, these people aren’t slaves and being that they don’t have legal contracts, they are free to up and leave whenever they please.
I think neither you, I, nor any of the social justice groups are capable of determining whether proper safety standards were in place. In any industry there are occupational hazards and sadly, injuries can be expected. Additionally, the little that’s been said in the media about injuries and amputations doesn’t tell us the cause of those injuries. While some might have been caused by the work or by accident, others could have been caused by negligence. Besides heavy machinery, there are lots of knives, saws and other sharp objects in use. There are safety measures that a company must take, but not every injury is preventable or foreseeable.
Rubashkin got caught, in my humble theory, because they’re big enough to make a big deal out of, but small enough to start the arrests with. And also because they have a lot of influential enemies.
I’m not going to argue that it’s safe having a meth lab around, I just don’t think that the threat is as immediate to the food and employees. If it was threatening, it would have been noticed and I doubt management would have allowed it to go on.
On the other hand, the place is pretty big. I can imagine there were some sheds somewhere out back or some vehicle somewhere on the premises where someone could have been cooking secretly. Management wouldn’t necessarily know what’s going on in every single shed, nor could they be blamed for allowing it. And the reports don’t either claim the period of time that this lab supposedly existed. This also might have been an isolated event.
Whatever … back to my main issue … a lot of allegations are being made and the least we can do before going off and destroying the company is to give them the presumption of innocence. At least until things become clearer.
43 heshman // May 27, 2008 at 9:53 pm
Just found this thought provoking post and thought I would share it with you- its different then this one yet similar.
http://haemtza.blogspot.com/2008/05/defending-rubashkins.html
44 Unbelievable // May 28, 2008 at 12:22 am
In what way is that post thought-provoking? The author is an idiot and a misnaged (quite obviously). The whole disease of his camp’s way of thinking is glaring in the sentence about following Torah vs. US law. It has become part of this philosophy that first of all we are American citizens and then Jews. Despicable.
Anyway, read these comments:
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/hmaryles/3398082878746401185/#144582
http://www.haloscan.com/comments/hmaryles/3398082878746401185/#144591
I don’t see the author arguing with the second answer.
45 Yochanan // May 28, 2008 at 7:16 pm
So, Tzaar Ba’alei Chayim doesn’t affect Kashrut.
But, doesn’t a shochet have to be a religious Jew? One who would not violate a basic (not, to mention, Noahide) commandment?
46 Yochanan // May 28, 2008 at 7:17 pm
Chanief,
I hope you don’t think the immigrants that pick fruits and veggies are treated any better.
47 VoiceOfReason // May 28, 2008 at 8:47 pm
2 things….1: I think i speak for most people when I say that the only thing that concerns me when I buy meat is the kashrut of the meat (meaning that it was slaughtered correctly) and the price I have to pay for the meat. That’s it. I could care less what else went on in the plant, as long as my costs are not going up. And if the liberal Jews decide to boycott Rubashkin, and my prices go up I am going to be realllllly pissed off.
The second point I wanted to bring up is that it’s utterly ridiculous that the same people who profess to care so much about the illegals and insist that the illegals have a right to stay in this country, also get their panties all up in a bunch every time they hear that a company actually hired the illegals but won’t pay them minimum wage. What are you, stupid? Do you really think a single illegal would get hired if they had to be paid minimum wage?!?! If I have to pay someone minimum wage, I sure as hell won’t be hiring illegals, I’ll just hire someone legal and pay him minimum wage!!! The whole point of hiring an illegal is that I can pay him less!!! If the stupid liberal Jews get their way, then none of the illegals will be able to get any work! I’m cool with that, but I think it would defeat the whole reason d’ et re for the Conservative and Reform movements! What a bunch of wackos…..my prices better not go up….morons
48 s(b.) // May 28, 2008 at 9:24 pm
where’s that quote from the rebbe from this afternoon? that would come in very handy for me to remember right now.
49 Anon // May 29, 2008 at 2:15 am
Yochanan:
the shochet has to be frum, but not anyone else who handles the animal. (the shochet doesn’t handle it till the last minute).
tzar balei chaim by the plant-owner/farmer/handler/illeagal imigrant setting things up, etc. doesnt affect Kashrus.
50 Friar Yid // May 29, 2008 at 2:38 pm
Ever since hearing about the Rubashkins and Postville years ago, I’ve been a little bemused by the whole situation. Mostly I think it’s unfortunate that the Rubashkins & co are so visible in that community because it seems to be that while they definitely help the local economy, their way of doing things has led to a lot of cultural clashes with the non-Jewish residents, which not only makes them look bad but also other Jews by association. The same is true when it comes to all the criminal allegations toward the family- every new scandal, in addition to the hillul hashem it would be anyway for the ethical violations of abusing animals, selling potentially treif meat to kosher-keeping customers, exploiting workers, health hazards, and now METH LABS on site, there’s also the fact that it does a tremendous amount of damage to Jews’ image- the Rubashkins, Chabad, Hasidim, OJs, and anyone else- and not just in Postville, but elsewhere in Iowa, across the midwest, and similar communities that will hear about it through the grapevine or national news.
Every new Rubashkin scandal is another strike against Jews to non-Jewish audiences, especially in rural areas where they may be few or nonexistent. The worse the stories from Postville get, the worse Jews’ image becomes. How many small towns do you think are going to want OJs moving in after this?
It’s a shame and an embarrassment, but the worst of it is that it is probably causing very real and longterm damage that might prevent the next generation from trying a similar leap of innovation to help Jewish and non-Jewish communities improve their qualities of life and, heaven forbid, learn to live together. For that to all be ruined because of one family/company and their bad business practices is very unfortunate.
51 SUPERFRUM // Jun 1, 2008 at 11:30 pm
The cattle, once slaughtered are DEAD! Don’t you remember the story of Yosef Hatzaddik who thought the chicken his brothers were about to eat was still alive - when actually it was dead!
G-d put instincts into a body that take over after it’s dead.
52 AF // Jun 3, 2008 at 11:04 pm
Maybe before one listens to low-life goyim and Jews who do not have ahavas yisroel, one should consider presumption of innocence.
It is a downfall of Torah values that some members of MO community visibly care more about their status as American citizens (read: “goyim”) than Jews.
Anyway, interview with R’ Aaron Rubashkin: http://www.crownheights.info/index.php?itemid=12210
53 Manna // Jun 5, 2008 at 1:53 pm
I support the Boycott!
please see a new video
on you tube
Z’man Matan Toratenu!
Shavuot
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpj-95Tvzp0
Baruch Hashem
54 micha // Jun 11, 2008 at 8:59 am
Did you read ?
Labor Ready pulled the workers from Agri they had sent in 10 days before to restaff for the missing 389. Why? To quote the article:
“‘There was a concern on the part of my field operators about the safety and care afforded to our workers,’ [Stacey] Burke [of Labor Ready's parent company TrueBlue] said. ‘We felt as if there was a violation on our core principles.’
“Burke declined to specify what safety violations the field operators observed, but said the company does not have a ‘one strike and you’re out’ violation policy for its work sites. She said the approximately 150 workers were non-skilled labor, but said she didn’t know in what part of the plant they worked.”
So, a company that has staffed slaughterhouses on numerous occasions would rather lose money and break a contract than send workers there. Are you going to claim they are simply /that/ anti-semitic?
There are real problems at Agri. But that doesn’t mean the Rubashkins themselves were involved. How often does a board member of a 1200 person plus company relate directly with the bottom rung of the staff?
As for the interview with Aaron Rubashkin… Am I to believe he hired illegal immigrant workers at a rate well above minimum wage? Why then not deal in legal workers? (And the folks at Empire would probably love to know how they could undercut the market and still pay more than they did…)
But in any case, Labor Ready’s behavior is a smoking gun.
-micha
55 micha // Jun 11, 2008 at 9:18 am
Oops. That URL, from the Des Moines Register, is http://www.desmoinesregister.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080530/NEWS/80530025
Leave a Comment