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Highlights from my date last night

As you may have seen on my facebook status I had a date last night. It was my first venture into the “I’m a real and settled women crowd” meaning she is over 30, in fact she was 5 years older then me. You couldn’t tell by looks because frankly I thought she was kind of cute- and very young looking, my fathers warnings of wrinkly thirty year old women who are ready to pump their faces with botox were not realized. I had an awesome time- although I think I was a little nuts.

You know how they say you have to put your best foot forward and you have to hold back, and try and be normal?

Well I have to be honest, I held back somethings but not matter how hard I try and be a little normal, less high energy shall we say, I can’t do it, I am a very energetic and very animated person- in fact this girl is on the shy until you get to know me, or more talkative one on one crowd- and I was on a roll last night. Even if they aren’t laughing at me- it doesn’t matter, I was in one of those moods where I was making comments to random people. Such as when we passed by these two kids playing rock, paper, scissors on the running path around the central park reservoir. I had to find out who won what- they were just deciding which way to go, long way or short way. So I was me- and some people can’t handle me- not saying that she couldn’t but I think it may have been a little much.

You know those times when you need to hold back but its really hard. Case in point, we were having a conversion about handshakes and the whole professional handshake between men and women issue. Suddenly I busted in and said that with all the nose picking during shul and usual lack of soap in shul I have gotten into giving people the fist- which by most is not understood and they just think I am trying to be cool- “I am too cool for the fist” its a cleanliness thing for me. Anyway- this girl terms this practice “fisting” now for the 26 year old boy in me, in a usual case I would have laughed for about 10 minutes and kept saying “so (insert frum girls name) what did you call this practice again?” but I didn’t and it was hard and almost unbearable, and I am sure many of you can relate.

Last night was also the first time in the history of my life that I was walking through central park in the early evening and was accosted by a random fan. Yes while on a date in Manhattan a fan of frum satire was walking the other way- and suddenly I hear my name called, the guy she was with is an old school upper west sider- but I had no idea who she was, she said her name and was dumbstruck for I have received correspondence from this girl/women before. It kind of sucked because I would have had a whole long chat if I wasn’t on a date- but I couldn’t so it was one of those awkward “hey wassup-shoot I’m on a date” but it did make me feel like a million bucks. It has happened in many places- but never outside on the street, very random!

We went for a piece of pizza and I have decided that one of the hardest things to do on a date is paying for the girl- nah I’m joking, I actually got my paycheck yesterday and felt that oldies song “another Saturday night and aint got nobody I got some money cause I just got paid” So the hardest thing to do on dates is chew with my mouth perfectly closed. I was only aware of this because I assumed, rightly so that she was more of a well mannered girl- you know one that uses knives and napkins. So I ordered an eggplant slice and I swear it was on record as the longest time it ever took for me to eat a slice of pizza. It actually completely un-enjoyable because I was concentrating on keeping my mouth closed that I completly forgot I was eating and felt like I was being tortured- I actually told my date this and she said that people who chew with their mouth open were one of her pet peeves. I am very honest with people- like the few times I have opened car doors for people- I have always told them how weird I felt doing it.

At the end of the date I was curious whether she wanted a second date or not- I was kind of in one of those “even if your not for me- your a very fun and interesting girl to hang out with” moods- but she did the classic THE FOLLOWING IS MEANT TO BE READ IN ONE BREATH LIKE HAMANS TEN SONS“I don’t want a second date- but I don’t want to tell it to your face- so I will let the person who set us up know and she will tell you like one of those cheery letters from the maghazine you are trying to get published in”

There were some interesting conversations on the date- I found out that not all frum girls are rabid right wing Republicans- and some are actually free thinkers- not to say that right wingers aren’t free thinkers, but usually I just hear quotes from Rush Limbaugh or something. We disagreed on some major issues- such as how the people who dress untzniusly or violate halacha are not orthodox- I completely disagree with this, because there are plenty of people who are religious- but Judaism is not an all or nothing religion. I feel that its unfortunate that certian blatant violations of halacha persist in the frum community- but to discount someone as unorthodox merely because she wears pants is a farse, in fact I was thinking of doing a whole post on pants- and how its high time for the frum community to start being more open minded about this issue. Just look at the psak they have about davening in front of a women with her hair uncovered- according to halacha a married women’s hair gets ervah status- although I prefer the real thing- and you cannot daven in front of a married women with her hair uncovered- well back in the day- the Rabbis said that since nowadays so many women do not cover their hair- its fine. Of course something like this ruling would probably not happen today- but still it is a somewhat progressive halachic stance.

Just to give you the diversity of our conversation we spoke of Central Parks designers, the founding of Christianity- and how all the saints were Jews, Gay marriage rights and philosophy, shidduch dating, how crappy frumster is, hiking, running, kayaking, family, movies, hatred of the upper wests side singles scene, singles shabbatons, food, and loads of other stuff I am sure I cannot remember.

If this sort of thing interests you and you’d like to go on a date with me- drop me a line- and no I wont write about it if you don’t want me to.

{ 37 comments… add one }
  • Jacob da Jew May 16, 2008, 10:12 AM

    Too bad we couldn’t hang , I was think lets hit a jazz joint but then…oops Sefirah!

  • jelen May 16, 2008, 10:57 AM

    pants post! pants post!

  • Elisheva May 16, 2008, 11:11 AM

    Careful, man. You’re gonna get girls going on dates with you just to be written about and get some publicity ;-).

  • s(b.) May 16, 2008, 11:32 AM

    jelen for president! — I mean, pants post, please (and I’m wearing a skirt tonight — ha! [this is practically an event, in my world, but l’kavod’s l’kavod ]I’m down with that,when in Rome).

    I hear you — I often feel like I need to restrain myself in order not to overwhelm others with my enthusiasm in dating-type situations or if I’m around people I don’t know well.

    As far as the black and whiteness of Judaism goes, it’s weird, but I’ve come to take an “if you don’t laugh, you cry” approach and slide around on it until I find shades of gray that work for me, when I can, while respecting others’ right to be as black and white as they want to be. No time to hate, just careful choices to make, sometimes.

    I love it too much to leave it. I just don’t like what some people do with it, sometimes, but I turn that into inspiration to not do/be the negative I perceive.

  • Anonymous May 16, 2008, 11:42 AM

    Another call for the pants post!

    I’ve started wearing them recently after years of only skirts. The reaction has been shocking. People who have know me for years – and even eaten in my home – now look at me with wariness. Seriously? Are my jeans that much more revealing than the Hot Chanie skirts?

    I too am trying the “if you don’t laugh…” approach. Life’s too short to worry about it.

  • s(b.) May 16, 2008, 11:45 AM

    Did you go to the Alice in Wonderland Sculpture? Extra Dew if you knew that it is part of the Electric Ladyland album artwork per
    That site says fountain, but it’s clearly the Alice statue; it’s easier to tell in this shot:

    And good call, adding the privacy disclaimer.

  • chanief May 16, 2008, 1:56 PM

    I strengthen the call for a pants post. Pants post! Pants post!

    Anonymous – I’ve always felt that my pants are far more tznius than a lot of the skirts worn by the Hot Chanie type (even though I hate that term because I’m a Chanie and I’m hot but I’m not THAT sort of hot Chanie!! LOL) Welcome back to being comfortable, looking good and being tznius in your jeans!

  • Hesh May 16, 2008, 4:26 PM

    Yes the pants post will come next week save your comments for then. You know I love Alice and Wonderland sculpture and think its awful freaky looking at night.

    After my date I took a 15 mile ride on my bike around the park and went around the sculpture.

  • s(b.) May 16, 2008, 4:40 PM

    I’ve only been there at night. It’s fun to climb (I know you’re probably not supposed to climb it. I’m a Cheshire cat fan.). Strawberry fields is nice on a spring day. I haven’t been to the zoo or ridden the carousel yet, but I will.

  • Material Maidel May 16, 2008, 6:09 PM

    wow, I wonder if she knows that she’s on the frontpage of Frum Satire aka the ModOrth Daily News!

    gotta say – dumbing someone via shadchan is almost as bad as dumping someone via post-it!

  • Anon May 17, 2008, 10:58 PM

    Pants are not tznius according to the halacha. Period. Weather or not they are more tznius than “Hot Chani” skirts IS NOT THE POINT. Obviously, you shouldn’t wear skirts like that EITHER! You should wear tznius skirts, and that’s it! There’s no excuse to wear pants because they are more tznius than something that isn’t tznuis, either. You’re just making excuses.

  • frummiepants May 18, 2008, 2:07 AM

    sorry anon, just b/c most halacha sefarim are written by charedi rabbis, doesnt mean that ALL poskim say that pants are assur. Both Rav Henkins (grandfather and grandson) wrote teshuvas that permit women to wear loose, flowy pants. I’ve heard there are a number of other poskim in Israel that allow it as well.

  • sympathyforthefrumela May 18, 2008, 3:30 AM

    women cant wear pants for the same reason Frum men wear black hats. because of fear . it’s only a classic example of a few oldschoolers sticking to old habits. not that it hasnt worked well for judaism in the past. but if women cant wear pants becuase it’s “menswear” lets go back to the days where men couldnt use mirrors. (either way, tight pants would always be banned, but its the principle..plus… yoga pants.)

  • Gavi May 18, 2008, 7:04 AM

    Bunch of cynics. There will always be a few dodgy rabbis who go against the trend but ultimately the concensus amongst those in know is that they are untznius. Deal with it.

  • Moshe May 18, 2008, 12:08 PM

    So is your shul a fisting orgy on shabbat? 😀

    Me and wife go to Karate together and she wears the gi pants and skirt over it and so do the other girls. Don’t see anything wrong with it.

  • s(b.) May 18, 2008, 12:31 PM

    moshe, do the women spar much?

  • rightsaidfrum May 18, 2008, 12:35 PM

    I’m too frummy for your pants, judgemental ’bout your pants …

  • Moshe May 18, 2008, 12:37 PM

    guys do
    of women, the one who would is not yellow belt yet, two others don’t really want to, my wife is considering but she’d have no one to fight except the sensei and me and nobody wants to fight sensei and I don’t want to fight with my wife because she’s a lot weaker than me and it wouldn’t be fun.

  • Headbanger May 18, 2008, 1:41 PM

    I noticed that people keep bringing sources for their excuses from rabbis but don’t quote or link them for us. How are we supposed to take your word for it? Until I hear it from them direct or a letter they wrote, your word isn’t credible.

  • Yochanan May 18, 2008, 1:58 PM

    Hesh, I am doing a comment boycott of your website until my comments post. The boycott officially ends as soon as this posts.

  • Yochanan May 18, 2008, 1:59 PM

    Did she ask for an autograph?

  • heshman May 18, 2008, 6:24 PM

    No autograph, though she looked starry eyed.

    Headbanger I just made a video on that exact concept.

  • derech May 18, 2008, 10:53 PM

    just wondering about this whole sefira thing, does anyone have any idea who made it up and why ?

  • Mikeinmidwood May 18, 2008, 11:19 PM

    Just like a man cant wear a dress because its womens wear a woman cant wear pants

  • frummiepants May 19, 2008, 2:03 AM

    You want sources – heres the references – go look them up yourselves:

    Rav Ovadiah – Yabia Omer Chelek 6, Yoreh Deah Siman 14- pants are definitely NOT “kli gever”, however he still doesnt permit them due to “lack of tzniut”. However, he brings the famous, often misquoted line that if a woman is wearing miniskirts – pants are the better of the 2 evils.

    Rav Henkin – Shu”t Bnei Banim, Volume 2 page 211 – he and his grandfather hold that loose pants are permitted

  • Yochanan May 19, 2008, 3:15 PM

    Well, of course, men wearing pants is Chukat HaGoyim cuz back in the day we were probably wearing flowing robes.

  • urban gypsy May 19, 2008, 9:05 PM

    Fisting? LMAO!

    You have been on dates where frum girls who quote Rush Limbaugh? Really?

    While I disagree with the pants thing, your haircovering counterarguement makes a lot of sense. Watertight logic there.

    She said no to a second date? Are you serious? Why??? Can someone explain to me this whole practice of blowing people off immediately without giving each other a half-decent chance to get to know each other? It sounded like you guys had a good time! Bummer 🙁

    You ordered an eggplant slice on a first date? This sort of makes me want to meet you.

  • Headbanger May 21, 2008, 11:20 PM

    Funny how people would use that Rav Ovadia source as a heter to wear pants. Yeah, if you’re not going to listen anyway, then do that rather than that.

    And we’d need Rav Henkin’s book quoted word for word with all the fine print such as indoors or outdoors, around who, and his reason why. But half of you ladies seeking heterim don’t wear “loose” pants so that balony goes out the window. I’m waiting to hear Reb Moshe’s teshuva on it. Oh wait, there isn’t any,

  • anon May 21, 2008, 11:56 PM

    nice little swipe at R’ Moshe

  • Headbanger May 22, 2008, 12:48 AM

    Oh I meant it in the way of him never discussing that topic. I wasn’t in his yeshiva to find out, but I’m sure he wasn’t giving any heterim for it.

  • heshman May 22, 2008, 9:28 AM

    You know something funny I figured she would say no- but she said yes, but I didn’t feel like going out again.

  • s(b.) May 22, 2008, 10:24 AM

    I don’t need no steenkin’ heters. I’ll settle any problem with me wearing women’s pants Hashem may have when I’m dead (this is a social issue, imo). In shuls and other orthocontexts, yes, I’ll put on a skirt, but otherwise, I am more than happy and comfortable wearing pants. Now that I’ve discovered microfiber tights don’t suck like pantyhose do, I don’t really even mind wearing skirts anymore. You need to understand, though, in yeshiva, girls HAD to wear skirts. It took me about 20 years to ever want to wear one again. It’s not fun being required to wear something for social reasons with which one doesn’t personally agree.
    How do you feel about kilts, headbanger? The Utilikilt is a men’s kilt. And the chassidim who wear stockings? Do they need a heter? ((chassidim in stockings)) ((men in kilts))

  • Moshe May 22, 2008, 10:32 AM

    sb, you just gave me a great idea, maybe for purim.
    Remeber Robin Hood, Men in Tights song?
    Dress up as chassidim and go around on purim singing it!

  • s(b.) May 22, 2008, 10:55 AM

    That’s great! (I saw the movie, don’t remember much of it, but I do remember that it was funny.)

  • CSJ June 2, 2008, 1:18 AM

    There are some really hot 30+ year old ortho women in NY who have never been married. My friend was into one. Thank god he abandoned it, but he was even younger than you! Personally I see no issue within a certain age gap and hotness. Of course, its usually the older men going for the younger women, not v.v.

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